15inch PowerBooks Ready?

[MacRumors]

PowerPage claims (http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=11023) that 15" Aluminum PowerBooks are ready and waiting...

The original TiBook has already migrated to its new Aluminum skin and is just waiting for the existing Titanium models to sell out. Word from a reliable source is that Apple has the new Aluminum PowerBook 15s already boxed and ready to go but is waiting for the existing models to disappear first.

The article speculates that WWDC or MacWorld may be the launching ground for the new PowerBook. A recent Page 2 report (http://page2.macrumors.com) suggests that the PowerBooks may be seen as early as next week.

[mattalici]

And I will snatch one up like...

[frozenstar]

It'll be a real shame if these things have a GeForce4 440 Go.

[dethl]

As much as I would want to buy a Powerbook, they're too expensive still..... This is great news though....but will the 15" have the same features as the 17" (lit up keyboard, etc...)?

[jasonM]

Apple needs to just bite the bullet and release the new versions. Anyone who is considering a 15" PowerBook knows that the other models were released recently and thus is waiting around for the revision of the 15 ". If they are truly waiting for the current versions to sell out, they're in catch-22 situation and the cost of all that unsold inventory won't look good on next quarter's balance sheets.

[anthonylambert]

I guess the question is wil it only run at 1 ghz?

[maradong]

yeah.
i ll definetly get one. definetly

[Rustus Maximus]

Mayhaps...loaded with a 970 chip?

Muhahahaha...let the speculation begin :D

[EponymousCow]

I swear I heard this rumor back in February. "AlBook 15s are ready to go just as soon as the TiBook stock sells out." If it were true, I'd be expecting to see TiBooks available for steep discounts to education customers, or at least there would be reports of the existing TiBooks getting marked EOL in the retail channels.

[gameboy]

http://grace.book.uci.edu/bookstore/computer/pbook/pbooks.html

1ghz is cheaper than 867mhz

Then again, this rumor was going around, what, feb? jan? and the discount started around march.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by EponymousCow
I swear I heard this rumor back in February. "AlBook 15s are ready to go just as soon as the TiBook stock sells out." If it were true, I'd be expecting to see TiBooks available for steep discounts to education customers, or at least there would be reports of the existing TiBooks getting marked EOL in the retail channels.

Well, there have been reports of steep educational discounts available on the 15" PB. So, I guess that one agrees with this rumor...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by anthonylambert
I guess the question is wil it only run at 1 ghz?

That is, indeed, the golden question. If so, it will be a very disappointing 'upgrade'. After all, there is little to no performance boost between the current 15" 1GHz and the 17" 1GHz models. (The only exception is in memory intensive tasks, where the DDR RAM on the 17" gives it about a 25% advantage over the 15".)

[Mudbug]

But I'll believe it when I see it - besides, we just purchased a refurb 800 TiBook about 2 months ago. oh well - always the fall... need a new desktop then anyway.

[dabirdwell]

It'd be nice if we saw a 1Ghz 970 in the 12" and 1.2 in the 15" and 17". Do we think these could have been in reliable production somewhere other than Fishkill and be ready now?

[Macmaniac]

Those Nvidia cards really do suck, I hope they put in a moblie Radeon 9800 for the 15in AlBook.
Also my small request to Apple put a Radeon card in the 12in PB the GO destroys gaming performance.

[Bozola]

A bit bigger screen

Same Speed as before

Firewire 800

Airport Extreme

No lighted keyboard

Bluetooth built in

Cheaper

That's it.

[toughboy]

and how much will the price of the new 15"Albook? Any ideas?

[rog]

This story has basically been repeated ad nauseum since february. bring them out already. It's already been 5 months, so the 12" and 17" are due for an update. Maybe we will finally see some decent speeds north of 1GHz. How they can continue to sell a stripped down no L3 cache 867 Mhz 1024x768 "powerbook" for $1800 is beyond me.

[mactastic]

The whole PB line needs to be updated. The new 15in needs to be faster (1.25Ghz maybe), but then the 17in needs that same chip, otherwise who's gonna drop $3200 on it? The 12in needs an upgrade to 1Ghz now that the top iBook is running at 900Mhz. The 15in will have to sport all the best features of the 17in as well. DDR is a given, as is BT and AE. Firewire 800 should also be included. Lighted keyboard is questionable, maybe a BTO or something if it adds much to the cost. I think we are definetly in for one more round of revisions with G4's before we will see 970's in the notebooks.
The 15"PB's have been rumored and rumored for quite a while now, and it's got to be hurting sales since IMHO that is the "sweet spot" for sales. Not that I'm biased or anything, since I'm writing this from a 15" TiBook:D

[Abstract]

You'll see a 1.25GHz 15" and 17" PB, and a 1GHz 12" PB soon enough.

[freundt]

Originally posted by Bozola
A bit bigger screen

Same Speed as before

Firewire 800

Airport Extreme

No lighted keyboard

Bluetooth built in

Cheaper

That's it.

God,I hope not.. I've been holding out buying a laptop for 5 MONTHS, waiting for the updated 15"... I refuse to believe, and maybe it is delusional of me, that it will be released at the same speed as the one that has been on the market this whole time.

GRRR....

Damnit! I just want something a little faster, just a little...

[dernhelm]

...is will they have the cool lighted keyboard or not?

:-)

[WannabeSQ]

Originally posted by gameboy
http://grace.book.uci.edu/bookstore/computer/pbook/pbooks.html

1ghz is cheaper than 867mhz

Then again, this rumor was going around, what, feb? jan? and the discount started around march.

Why does my school not have deals such as this. I go to CSUN (Cal State Northridge) and their computer page is so old it has the computer I am using right now, a G4 500. Damn.

I think if they upgraded the whole line, especially the 12" there would be less trouble making 12' ibook vs 12' pbook, especially if they give the pbook some L3.

[greg6028]

Originally posted by Bozola
A bit bigger screen

Same Speed as before

Firewire 800

Airport Extreme

No lighted keyboard

Bluetooth built in

Cheaper

That's it.

Here is my guess,
Same Speed
Firewire 400 & 800
Airport Extreme
Lighted Keyboard
Bluetooth
New RAM
Same Price

[greg6028]

God, I gotta think that the 15 will fit inline with the NEW 12 and 17's. They will not introduce new 12 and 17. They just did that last January, with the 17" just now showing up.....
The 15 will a smaller version of the 17". The 'flagship' Powerbook will still be the 17".

[kentuckyfried]

Apple, just hurry the hell up already!!!

I've been waiting almost 6 months...

[freundt]

Originally posted by kentuckyfried
Apple, just hurry the hell up already!!!

I've been waiting almost 6 months...

me too.

[Wonder Boy]

What I got out of that article is-
No old PB sales = No release of new PB

If the article is true, do you really think people are going to buy old powerbooks?

No.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by mactastic
The whole PB line needs to be updated. The new 15in needs to be faster (1.25Ghz maybe), but then the 17in needs that same chip, otherwise who's gonna drop $3200 on it? The 12in needs an upgrade to 1Ghz now that the top iBook is running at 900Mhz. The 15in will have to sport all the best features of the 17in as well. DDR is a given, as is BT and AE. Firewire 800 should also be included. Lighted keyboard is questionable, maybe a BTO or something if it adds much to the cost. I think we are definetly in for one more round of revisions with G4's before we will see 970's in the notebooks.
The 15"PB's have been rumored and rumored for quite a while now, and it's got to be hurting sales since IMHO that is the "sweet spot" for sales. Not that I'm biased or anything, since I'm writing this from a 15" TiBook:D

Yes, I agree. The whole line is (almost) due for updates. But the problem is that they're up against a wall with the G4. It's just too hot to put a 1.25GHz chip in a PB. So, if they are going speed bump the PBs, they need to go to a new processor. That would mean that they have three options, none of which seem assured.

First, there's the 7457. The problem with this chip is that we are reasonably assured that they won't be ready until much later this year. (And where Moto is concerned, I always believe that rumors of delays are accurate.)

Second, there is the 970. This seems a reasonable option (ducks as people throw things). It is cooler than the G4 at similar clock speeds, and there are significant rumors that the 970 has become available much sooner than previously expected. Of course, this is entirely up for speculation.

Third, there is the 750GX. This chip we know very little about. Presumably, this is a G3 with altivec support, but we don't know that for sure. We know little, if anything, about when this chip will become available, or if it is already becoming available. So, this is a great unknown.

The only other option is that the PB stays at the same clock speed.

I certainly hope that Apple will WOW us when the new 15" is released. And, the longer we have to wait for this release, the more I think that they will...

[Bengt77]

I hope the new 15" PowerBook will have the following specs:

- 1.33GHz PPC750GX (Gobi) processor
- 167MHz FSB
- 512MB DDR RAM
- ATI Mobile Radeon 9500
- 15.4" 19:10 TFT screen
- Firewire 800
- Airport Extreme built-in
- Lighted keyboard (of course!)
- New Pioneer DVD-RW & DVD+RW drive
- ?!...

:confused:

EDIT: Of course, 'PPC750FX' was meant to be 'PPC750GX'.

[lunDisc]

Do we know that the G4 1.25 is to hot for power book?

I belive it will spot a 1.25 or even a 1.33!

come on apple, amaz us with the 1.33 GHz

:eek:

970 would ROCK, that would be to CRAZY.

---------------
TiBook 667 DVI

[shycoy]

then i WANT one of these !!!!!!!!
come on Apple let us play !!!!

[lunDisc]

what is so cool about the 1.33GHz PPC750FX (Gobi) processor? if it is a G3 with velocity engine, why is the G3 we know stuck at 900MHz?

Is the 1.33GHz PPC750FX in any way better than the G4 1.33?
wouldn´t velocity engine make the PPC750FX hotter?

anyone?

(has someone out there tried to overclock a rev C PowerBook? I know it´s not worth it, but....)

-------------
667-40- 512 wow sexy stuff.

1330-80-1536.............

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by lunDisc
what is so cool about the 1.33GHz PPC750FX (Gobi) processor? if it is a G3 with velocity engine, why is the G3 we know stuck at 900MHz?


It's at 900 MHz because Apple has choosen to stop it there. The could easily get over 1 GHz G3 from IBM, but they can make it seem like their consumer products are faster than their pro products.

[herocero]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lunDisc
[B]what is so cool about the 1.33GHz PPC750FX (Gobi) processor? if it is a G3 with velocity engine, why is the G3 we know stuck at 900MHz?

Is the 1.33GHz PPC750FX in any way better than the G4 1.33?
wouldn´t velocity engine make the PPC750FX hotter?

anyone?

(has someone out there tried to overclock a rev C PowerBook? I know it´s not worth it, but....)

if anyone has, mike will know about it at www.xlr8yourmac.com
amazing tech site, lots of stories on overclocking.
if memory serves me correctly, PC laptops (ie non-centrino) run much hotter than any PB to date. a 1.25 doesn't seem all that out of place among PC notebooks, but that TiBook battery management is something to be marveled at . . .

[AppleMatt]

So can anyone predict, in their opinion, accurately when the 12" will be updated?

AppleMatt

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
So can anyone predict, in their opinion, accurately when the 12" will be updated?

AppleMatt

Ummm, no. But thanks for asking. :D

[frozenstar]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
So can anyone predict, in their opinion, accurately when the 12" will be updated?

I'm betting on a Rev B 12" PowerBook around September. Perhaps we'll see the 12" w/ PPC970 in March or April of next year.

[Abstract]

They'll upgrade the 15" to 1.25GHz, and then a month later, the 17" will be upgraded to the 1.25GHz G4 processor while the 12" gets a 1GHz G4.

Either that, or they all get a low-end 970, if Apple wants to disassociate from Motorola badly enough. ;)

[greg6028]

What ever happen with the rumor of a duel processor Powerbooks?
Two processor G4....maybe?

[Sun Baked]

Should be the DDR PB 17 shoehorned into the smaller case...

But looking at some of the things it's hard to tell if it'll show along with a Rev. B of the DDR PB 12 & 17, speed bumps, or just be the lone addition of the 15 inch version.

Of course it could be coming along with the switch to the 7455B or the 7457, but I can't remember what people have been saying about the timing of these.

[TheMightyG]

Originally posted by gameboy
http://grace.book.uci.edu/bookstore/computer/pbook/pbooks.html

1ghz is cheaper than 867mhz

Then again, this rumor was going around, what, feb? jan? and the discount started around march.

The East Coast took about 2 months to follow the educational price drops out West. UC Davis and UC Irvine had 15" PBs for $1999 since late Feb-early march. The Harvard Computer Store just dropped the price of the 15" Tibook this week. It was $2479 with AppleCare (the price I bought it at in March). On Monday May 19th it nosedived to $2099 with AppleCare.

[Bengt77]

Originally posted by greg6028
What ever happen with the rumor of a duel processor Powerbooks?
Two processor G4....maybe?

I don't think we'll see that until the PPC970 multicore is a financially viable option for Apple. Maybe a two-core PPC970 won't run as hot as two G4s?! Who knows...

:rolleyes:

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by TheMightyG
The East Coast took about 2 months to follow the educational price drops out West. UC Davis and UC Irvine had 15" PBs for $1999 since late Feb-early march. The Harvard Computer Store just dropped the price of the 15" Tibook this week. It was $2479 with AppleCare (the price I bought it at in March). On Monday May 19th it nosedived to $2099 with AppleCare.

Hi, where did you see the 15" PB for $1999 for UC Davis? I looked everywhere but it was way more than that... thanks.

[TheMightyG]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Hi, where did you see the 15" PB for $1999 for UC Davis? I looked everywhere but it was way more than that... thanks.

Whoa..just checked...its $2649 there (same as the online Apple Store).

Dunno....vaguely recalled the $1999 price at UC-D when I was comparing academic prices a couple of months ago......I guess I could have been wrong as I was looking at a bunch of UC stores.

[aasmund]

Well, even though it may be true, I think it's a stupid move. the TiBook is OS9 compatible, the Albook 15 probably won't. Without any substantial changes it does not give much pr effect. Finally, I think Apple is so dependant on notebook sales, that they really should be focusing on cracking out a '970 PB as early as humanly, and electronically, possible.

regards.

[bikertwin]

So if these new 15-inchers are 970's, then all hail Macwhispers?

And if they're G4's, then ... ?

[DHagan4755]

Originally posted by bikertwin
if they're G4's, then ... ...MacWhispers' will be the laughing stock of the Mac community.

[DHagan4755]

I think the 15-inch PowerBook coming out next week is as much a rumor as the previous rumors. Does Arn really have any new info? Everyone's talking now like it's for real. I'd like to hear what Arn has to say...

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
I think the 15-inch PowerBook coming out next week is as much a rumor as the previous rumors. Does Arn really have any new info? Everyone's talking now like it's for real. I'd like to hear what Arn has to say... It was originally thought to be coming out around the time of the OS 9 booting death that SJ mentioned moving to June 2003 when he announced the new computers and left a bunch of old OS 9 bootable machines in the line-up in the following releases.

But the rumor mongers kept announcing a bunch of pending release dates, excuses, titiliting ear candy, etc. as to why the machines never showed up.

[vwcruisn]

My school (Art Center College Of Design) has an AWESOME special going on... $2099 for a 1 GHZ PB 15incher with superdrive AND applecare.... i need a laptop and thats VERY tempting... I think I should wait though...

[scdreger]

These seems to be some great prices at UCI bookstore, and Art Center,
Does anyone know if you can purchase there if your a student (and can prove it)
from another school. My school doesnt have these prices..
Thanks

[GeneR]

But we shall see.

[WannabeSQ]

Originally posted by scdreger
These seems to be some great prices at UCI bookstore, and Art Center,
Does anyone know if you can purchase there if your a student (and can prove it)
from another school. My school doesnt have these prices..
Thanks

yeah, im in the same boat, my school doesn't even sell computers (and if they do they do a good job of hiding it) let alone have good deals.

I think I have finally settled on an iBook, and would love to get a deal.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
I think the 15-inch PowerBook coming out next week is as much a rumor as the previous rumors. Does Arn really have any new info? Everyone's talking now like it's for real. I'd like to hear what Arn has to say...

As I've already said, this is really starting to sound like the perpetual 'it will be released next week' mantra. I don't believe it. I won't believe it until I hear it from a better source. (i.e. if ThinkSecret were to say that there would be new PowerBooks next week, I'd sit up and pay attention.)


92...

[true777]

Stanford University, located in the heart of Silicon Valley, and just a few miles from Apple's headquarters, has always had a special connection with Apple. Traditionally, Stanford's computer store has had specials on Macs soon to be d/c'd long before anyone else had. Stanford once even had a display model in the store before that model was formally announced, I believe (can't swear to it, but I really think it was announced a day after I saw it sitting there). In any case, there seems to be some close connection.

Stanford has had pretty steep specials on both 15" PB models for about 2 months now, and they say "while supplies last" which they pretty much only do for DC'd models. So the new ones must be around the corner.

But of course something could be stalling the release... maybe they're overheating, or some other component is flawed, etc.

BTW - they also just started incredible deals on the Powermacs, so there might be something there, too...

PB: 867 Combo, AppleCare... 1738
1 Gig Super AppleCare 2099

PM 1 Gig + Apple 17" Flat Panel + AppleCare...1799
1.25 + Apple 17" Flat Panel + AppleCare...1998
1.42 + Apple 17" Flat Panel + AppleCare...2598

Also, they're selling the 12" PB for just 1499 !
That's not a reduction, though, it's always been that cheap here.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by true777

1 Gig Super AppleCare 2099


Boy, all these great deals on the current 15" almost makes me want to go and buy one instead of waiting for the new ones.... almost. :)


88...

[niar]

Now we can say goodbye to 9 as well...

I Still use Sherlock2 very intensively under Classic, I hope Panther doesn't kill it when it comes out.

[BWhaler]

They may be upgraded soon, but I suspect not next week.

My logic is Apple has a 10 day return policy on upgraded models, so the Apple site usually reflects this fact by increasing the shipping date right before a release so Apple doesn't sell a machine which will just get immediately returned.

The 15" PB, however, is still showing as same day shipping...


With all that said, I hope I am wrong and the new machines ship next week with everything I have been waiting for. It's been a long wait...

[niar]

Originally posted by aasmund
Well, even though it may be true, I think it's a stupid move. the TiBook is OS9 compatible, the Albook 15 probably won't. Without any substantial changes it does not give much pr effect. Finally, I think Apple is so dependant on notebook sales, that they really should be focusing on cracking out a '970 PB as early as humanly, and electronically, possible.

regards.

making G4 incompatible with OS9 in pro machines makes very little sense IMO. Especially assuming that G4 era is almost over. I'm afraid, we'll see another generation of G4's both in Powerbooks and Towers before 970 comes.

[Bengt77]

Originally posted by niar
I'm afraid, we'll see another generation of G4's both in Powerbooks and Towers before 970 comes.

I'm also getting more and more afraid that's the situation we'll see soon. New Power Macs, but no PPC970s. First we'll see 1.67GHz G4s in the towers and 1.25GHz in the PowerBooks. Maybe even PPC750GX (Gobi) processors for the 'Books?!

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by niar
I'm afraid, we'll see another generation of G4's both in Powerbooks and Towers before 970 comes.

What is this fear based on? I can understand some of the arguments that some people put forward as to why we'll see another generation of G4 PowerBooks, but Power Macs? What evidence is there for that? I'd say that, if anything, we'd be talking about a little longer of a wait than we might like before the next upgrade, but that upgrade will be an upgrade to the 970.


87...

[mdntcallr]

Guys i have read alot here and here are my opinions.

CPU
First off, Apple has been disappointing many of us with it's poor speed and specs for the better part of 2 years. Yes most of this has been the fault of Moto, but now we are getting nearer to the end of those problems. We need a very fast, not hot and stable CPU. ie 970!. or something else. Remember we have been stuck on the laptop at 1mhz for how long? over a year? this is just terrible we need a big statement. not 15-20% chip speed increase. it just doesnt compete with wintel machines.

GRAPHICS CHIP
They have also not used the highest tech graphics chips with alot of vram, most desktop replacement users want 64mb of vram DDR. the only question is whether they use the fastest chip, from ATI, and not the slower one from nvidia like they just did in the 17" PB.

RAM
lso, we want the DDR ram to be fully used, not handicapped. Yes we know you have used DDR, but cmon, there was no way on the processor to fully take advantage of it.

LCD Panel
We need the highest quality panel, much like what sony uses.

Firewire & USB
Well we want Firewire 800 and even USB 2.0 so we can use lots of devices. yes i like firewire more, but on many it just doesnt matter.

Airport Extreme built-in
This is the new standard. Wish they went to the 5 ghz plan, but at least this is compatible. i just want to avoid the 2.4. oh well

Bluetooth internally built-in
It would be about time to integrate this.

Lighted keyboard (of course!)
At least on the upper model of the 15" this is a great option for those of us in dark rooms.

Then what do we want?
to be surprised with something. A new design item. something amazing. Why not? that is what we want from apple.

Best,
Mitch

[ZildjianKX]

I agree with you, they need to use the high end technology on the new laptops if they're going to claim its "top of the line" and charge a pretty hefty price for it. There is no reason they shouldn't put everything you listed in the new powerbook... and its going to be kind of dissapointing if they don't.

[Abstract]

Originally posted by true777

BTW - they also just started incredible deals on the Powermacs, so there might be something there, too...

PB: 867 Combo, AppleCare... 1738
1 Gig Super AppleCare 2099

PM 1 Gig + Apple 17" Flat Panel + AppleCare...1799
1.25 + Apple 17" Flat Panel + AppleCare...1998
1.42 + Apple 17" Flat Panel + AppleCare...2598

Also, they're selling the 12" PB for just 1499 !
That's not a reduction, though, it's always been that cheap here.

*starts getting antsy*

Damn, a 12" PB for 1499!!! I'd buy one for that price. If converted to Canadian dollars, you couldn't get a 12" ibook with Combo drive for that price.


These seems to be some great prices at UCI bookstore, and Art Center,
Does anyone know if you can purchase there if your a student (and can prove it)
from another school. My school doesnt have these prices..
Thanks

I'm a student in Canada, and with the Canadian dollar rising relative to the US dollar, I may consider going to the US to purchase my Mac, ultimately saving myself $400 Cdn. But can I use my student card at Apple or an American university, or do you have to attend the university in order to take advantage of their specials?

[ZildjianKX]

I think you have to go to a specific university to get its discount, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. I go to a UC... but other UCs seem to have better deals... wouldn't mind buying one from them.

[cb911]

i beleive that the new PowerBooks are ready to go, but i was starting to think that Apple would release them on a significant date. then i remembered that Apple has just released stuff before, on no special day.

hope they are ready in the next month or so. :D (ecpecially since i just sold my TiBook... and am without a Mac for the time being...)

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by mdntcallr
...
CPU
...Remember we have been stuck on the laptop at 1mhz for how long? over a year?
...
Best,
Mitch

Just a minor correction. We have been at 1GHz since last November. So, that's just over six months. While it is time for an upgrade/speed bump, even a 25% bump would be in line with a standard upgrade, and it would make me sufficiently happy to buy a new PB. Sure, I hope for and would love to see a 970 PB, but I won't get too upset if it doesn't materialize yet...


77...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by cb911
i beleive that the new PowerBooks are ready to go, but i was starting to think that Apple would release them on a significant date. then i remembered that Apple has just released stuff before, on no special day.

hope they are ready in the next month or so. :D (ecpecially since i just sold my TiBook... and am without a Mac for the time being...)

Hey, I'm with you there! I sold my iBook a couple weeks ago. I'm not going totally without Mac, though. I still have my old PB3400 to hold me over. Still, I am longing for a better, faster machine...


76...

[bentmywookie]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
I think you have to go to a specific university to get its discount, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. I go to a UC... but other UCs seem to have better deals... wouldn't mind buying one from them.

Tis true. I go to UCB and I wanted to get the UCD price on the 1 gig Ti awhile ago so I called our campus store and they said they couldn't do that because the stores were seperate.

You can get the normal educational discount at an Apple retail store though if you show them your student ID - don't know if that helps you Abstract since the university specific deals seem much better than Apple's educational pricing.

Btw, I ended up just buying the 1 gig Ti w/ Applecare at my store (it was only $2299) and I think it is totally worth it. The new 15 inchers are definitely going to be in the $3k range when they debut and the 1 gig Ti just rocks in my opinion.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by bentmywookie
...
Btw, I ended up just buying the 1 gig Ti w/ Applecare at my store (it was only $2299) and I think it is totally worth it. The new 15 inchers are definitely going to be in the $3k range when they debut and the 1 gig Ti just rocks in my opinion.

There is a degree to which I am sorely tempted to do this too. I want a machine with decent power again. I want to be back in OS X. I miss it! Okay.... Breath.... I can manage.... I can wait....

:p


72...

[kray]

Here are the specs for the 15" powerbook. It appeared on the university of minnesota's web site this morining

15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache
512MB SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA/66
SuperDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400

AirPort built-in
Bluetooth optional
DVI & S-Video out

[mcl]

Originally posted by kray
Here are the specs for the 15" powerbook. It appeared on the university of minnesota's web site this morining



Errr...that's the existing 1GHz 15.2" model that's been available since November 2002.

So?

[Abstract]

Originally posted by kray
Here are the specs for the 15" powerbook. It appeared on the university of minnesota's web site this morining


.......and every morning. :D I don't think the new 15" PB will have much better specs, but at least a faster CPU and APExtreme, me thinks.

[mactastic]

Are they ready yet??

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by kray
Here are the specs for the 15" powerbook. It appeared on the university of minnesota's web site this morining

15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1GHz PowerPC G4
1MB L3 cache
512MB SDRAM
60GB Ultra ATA/66
SuperDrive
ATI Mobility Radeon 9000
64MB DDR video memory
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400

AirPort built-in
Bluetooth optional
DVI & S-Video out That's still the old machine with a pdf from Oct 30, 2002. :rolleyes:

The new machine should have a new 2003 pdf, DDR memory, Airport Extreme, and a good shot at FW800. ;)

[ds9er16]

In my opinion, we won't see anything but the G4 in Powerbooks for some time. If/When Apple comes out with the PPC 970, which it probably will before this year is over, we'll only see it in the high end machines like the PowerMac and Xserve for some time.

Since aluminum cases keep a computer running cooler, I'm sure that Apple would release a 1.25 G4 in the 15" and 17" Powerbooks since heat wouldn't be as much of an issue. My guess would be that we'd be seeing the 867mhz in the 12" models, a 1ghz and 1.25ghz in the 15", and a 1.25 in the 17" once they all have gone through the next phase of updating.

As for features of the 15" Aluminum, Apple won't do so much to it that it'll draw people from buying the 17" Powerbook. Unless upgrades are made to the 17" at the same time as the 15" Aluminum is released, most of the special features of the 17" will remain in that model alone. It wouldn't make sense for Apple to release two nearly identical machines with screen size being the only difference. They need to keep them different enough so people will find significant reasons to purchase the 17" instead of a smaller model.

If any features are trickled down at all, they would probably be AirportExtreme and Firewire 800. I doubt that Apple would close the gap in the two by using DDR memory in the 15". Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see all these awesome features in the 15" Al Powerbook, mainly because it would probably be the first powerbook I'd decide to buy. The only reason I say otherwise is because Apple has a tendancy to keep their products on a steady ladder system, with products being noticeably better and different at each higher level.

This would definitely be one of those situations where you hope to be wrong, but something tells me that Apple will do something along the lines I've mentioned based on their decisions in the past.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by ds9er16
...Since aluminum cases keep a computer running cooler, I'm sure that Apple would release a 1.25 G4 in the 15" and 17" Powerbooks since heat wouldn't be as much of an issue. My guess would be that we'd be seeing the 867mhz in the 12" models, a 1ghz and 1.25ghz in the 15", and a 1.25 in the 17" once they all have gone through the next phase of updating.

While, if we don't see the 970 in the PowerBooks promptly I hope you're right, there seems to be some evidence that you're not. From what I understand, the reason that the 17" was delayed so long was entirely linked to heat issues, and that's just with a 1GHz G4. Given that, I don't see it as being at all realistic to hope for a 1.25GHz G4 appearing in a 'Book before the 7457 arrives at the end of this year (or the 750GX, if it's dubbed a G4 class chip).

As for features of the 15" Aluminum, Apple won't do so much to it that it'll draw people from buying the 17" Powerbook. Unless upgrades are made to the 17" at the same time as the 15" Aluminum is released, most of the special features of the 17" will remain in that model alone. It wouldn't make sense for Apple to release two nearly identical machines with screen size being the only difference. They need to keep them different enough so people will find significant reasons to purchase the 17" instead of a smaller model.

Uh... have you looked at the iBook line? Have you compared the top of the line 12" iBook to the 14" iBook? The only difference is the screen size (and in that case, you don't even get higher screen resolution, just a slightly larger screen).

...If any features are trickled down at all, they would probably be AirportExtreme and Firewire 800. I doubt that Apple would close the gap in the two by using DDR memory in the 15"...

If Apple didn't give the 15" DDR RAM, then this would be the only Pro model that didn't have it. The 12" has DDR RAM. The Power Macs have DDR RAM. Even the iMac has DDR RAM. No, once the 15" gets updated, it will have DDR RAM.

I fully expect that the 15" will effectively be updated to being a smaller form factor version of the 17". I'm still hopeful that there will come a full line update that includes a full processor upgrade (i.e. the 970) when that will come at the same time the new 970 based Power Macs.


33...

[HADOOKEN!]

Do we think we will see ddrram in the new 15'' powerbooks when they come out?
One would sure hope so

[WasteGate]

Here comes another Tuesday, anyone else thinking that this is another i-pod rumor happening? :confused:

[BWhaler]

Originally posted by WasteGate
Here comes another Tuesday, anyone else thinking that this is another i-pod rumor happening? :confused:

Not this Tuesday, unfortunately. (I've been waiting all year for the update like a lot of folks.)

Since Apple has a 10 day return/swap policy on upgraded machines, you usually see the ship days increase right before a refresh, so Apple minimizes returns. The ship date for the 15" PB have been "same day" for the past week.

I think we are going to continue to wait for some time, which is a bummer.

[cb911]

okay, so we might have to wait for the update for awhile... :(

but it should definitely be here, or at least announced by WWDC, and that's not too far off. by then it will really be due for an update.

and even thought the 17" PB hasn't been shipping for so long, Apple might be planning a 'mega-update'!! imagine the 12, 15 and 17" PowerBooks all being updated at the same time!! it's possible. don't forget that this is the year of the laptop, and it is Apple we're talking about after all. ;) :D

[BWhaler]

Man, I hope you're right CB. I've been waiting for an eternity...

[WasteGate]

Originally posted by cb911
okay, so we might have to wait for the update for awhile... :(

but it should definitely be here, or at least announced by WWDC, and that's not too far off. by then it will really be due for an update.

and even thought the 17" PB hasn't been shipping for so long, Apple might be planning a 'mega-update'!! imagine the 12, 15 and 17" PowerBooks all being updated at the same time!! it's possible. don't forget that this is the year of the laptop, and it is Apple we're talking about after all. ;) :D

Year of the Laptop, my god what was the drive behind that quote? I'm a little disappointed in Apple with the release of a new 15" PowerBook.
I saw a 15" wintel notebook almost identical to the PowerBook at the Australian CeBit, the salesmen comment that its the World's First notebook with a DVD-Rewriter left me laughing and when I said to him the Apple has had this for quiet sometime his next comment was "Oh, I meant it was the World's First notebook with a DVD-Rewriter that runs Windows XP".....loser. Anyway the specs were impressive 2.53Ghz P4, 1Gb ram, etc.
Heres the spec sheet http://www.higrade.com/media/other_documents/pdfs/datasheets/w6700A.pdf.

I wouldn't get one but Apple had better pull their finger out quickly, my AMEX is empty. :)

[illumin8]

Wednesday, I guess this rumor is dead. I kind of figured if we didn't see the 15" updates by this week we probably won't see them until WWDC.

Steve Jobs probably doesn't want to steal thunder from the big 64-bit Panther/970/system updates across the whole line announcements at WWDC.

[mactastic]

Are they here yet?? Well now there's this little tidbit. Who knows.

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=11034

[kiwi_the_iwik]

A lot of my friends have finally been coaxed into buying new Powerbooks (10 in all!). it seems my talents may be wasted as a cameraman, and better utilised as an Apple salesman!

Damn - I wish I could sell them on the side...

Anyway, I've been telling them to hold off until after the WWDC, when undoubtedly, the new line of 15" Powerbooks will be unleashed (hopefully, or I'll be lynched...).

It would've been pointless for them to buy the old titanium type, especially since the anodised aluminium is far more scratch-resistant and robust compared to the TiBook design, and these folks will be going into hostile environments (snow, sand, water, bullets - you name it...).



As a sidenote, I think that the upgrades will be:

1 Ghz 12" Powerbook
-same basic specs.

1.25 Ghz 15" Powerbook
-Firewire 800
-Faster SuperDrive
-Bluetooth
-Anodised Aluminium
-Airport Extreme

DUAL 1.25 Ghz 17" Powerbook
-same basic specs.

It makes sense - with the new PPC 970, higher speeds, lower power consumption and lower heat emissions might make it a viable option for the new line - and really leave the competitors standing around, scratching their balls...

:)

[WasteGate]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik

As a sidenote, I think that the upgrades will be:

1 Ghz 12" Powerbook
-same basic specs.

1.25 Ghz 15" Powerbook
-Firewire 800
-Faster SuperDrive
-Bluetooth
-Anodised Aluminium
-Airport Extreme

DUAL 1.25 Ghz 17" Powerbook
-same basic specs.

:)
Add the Radeon 9600 chipset to that spec and I think your right. Don't get your hopes up for a dual 17" PowerBook just yet... :)

[StuPid QPid]

Originally posted by mactastic
Are they here yet?? Well now there's this little tidbit. Who knows.

http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=11034

That's the 667 MHz Powerbook, the model before last! If this were the 867 MHz, then it would be news. What interests me is whether this is a refurbished model, or whether they still have inventory of the model before last? Still $1499 for a TiBook is still a good deal.

[oomega1]

omg.... if the new 15 inch powerbook has theses new features...

970 processors
Firewire 800
SuperDrive
Bluetooth
Aluminium
Airport Extreme
ATI 9600 Mobility

I will drop my PCs and go get my first mac, and i'm sure a few of my friends will do the same. ^^ Been wanting a notebook for sometime now and the powerbooks look sweet, if they had put an ati 9600 i woulda bought a 17inch already =/. But i think the 17inch is too big for being portable, great for home use though and a big time space saver.

[stompy]

Originally posted by oomega1
omg.... if the new 15 inch powerbook has theses new features...

970 processors
Firewire 800
SuperDrive
Bluetooth
Aluminium
Airport Extreme
ATI 9600 Mobility


5 of the 7 are a lock, and for some optimists, the 970 as well. The last round of PB updates makes me doubt the 9600.

[NavyIntel007]

Hopefully it'll be

12" 1 GHz
15" 1 Ghz
15" 1.25 Ghz
17" 1.25 Ghz

Here's another thing. I've read somewhere that there's a FW800 chipset that's capable of using USB2 at the same time. It could be possible that in the interests of space, Apple change the one FW400 on the 12" and make it 1 FW800 with adapter and have the USB 2 on the same chipset. That would be logical (maybe then they could solder some more ram on there... :D

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by StuPid QPid
... Still $1499 for a TiBook is still a good deal.

How about $1399 for a 12" PB? :D

[WannabeSQ]

That would be enough to get me from wanting the iBook and getting the powerbook. Can you still add a superdrive at that price?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by StuPid QPid
That's the 667 MHz Powerbook, the model before last! If this were the 867 MHz, then it would be news. What interests me is whether this is a refurbished model, or whether they still have inventory of the model before last? Still $1499 for a TiBook is still a good deal.

Many students all over the country can get nearly the same price on the 867MHz model through there school you just have to look into it. Also if your not a student makes friends with one and have them buy it for you.

Here's the deal my local university is running.

http://www.uobookstore.com/electronics/apple/powerbookspecial.pdf

It's the 15" TiBook 867MHz, 256MB of Ram, 40GB HD, and the Combo Drive for $1,599.

[oomega1]

well they gotta have thought, in their right minds why people hesitated to buy the 17 inch. cough* the video card. So if they make the 15inch with the response of not updating that, to me its a waste of my time, cause that was the reason why i didn't get one in the first place. Being a PC user nvidia doesn't pump good drivers, plus the fact that i dont think the graphics card would last until next year. But we can always hope they didn't continue to follow that path. But hugs to my ti4600

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by oomega1
well they gotta have thought, in their right minds why people hesitated to buy the 17 inch. cough* the video card. So if they make the 15inch with the response of not updating that, to me its a waste of my time, cause that was the reason why i didn't get one in the first place. Being a PC user nvidia doesn't pump good drivers, plus the fact that i dont think the graphics card would last until next year. But we can always hope they didn't continue to follow that path. But hugs to my ti4600

That's really odd. As on the Macs NVidia drivers are far far better then ATI's. Also I don't know what you mean about lasting until next year. I've never heard of a oem video card failure on a mac. There is no doubt though that the video chips in the current Powerbooks could be more powerful.

[HiHoStevo]

Stanford University 12" PB for $1499??

I checked their web site and could not find this deal.

Does anyone have a link to it?

Thanks,

Steve

[WasteGate]

Originally posted by stompy
5 of the 7 are a lock, and for some optimists, the 970 as well. The last round of PB updates makes me doubt the 9600.
I'm not too sure what Apple was thinking when they introduced the 12" and 17" PowerBook and the shift to the Nvidia GeForce4 440 from the Radeon 9000. The performance gains were not there and possibly worse.
I sure hope that they move towards the Radeon 9600 or forward on the Nvidia line and go with the GeForce FX GO. Nvidia development on drivers is better than ATi.

[HiHoStevo]

Earlier someone posted a note that their college bookstore was selling the 15" PB with SuperDrive for $2,099 which inlcuded Applecare.

Would you please re-post that schools information?

Thx,

Steve

[TheMightyG]

Originally posted by hihostevo
Earlier someone posted a note that their college bookstore was selling the 15" PB with SuperDrive for $2,099 which inlcuded Applecare.

Would you please re-post that schools information?

Thx,

Steve

That's the price at the Harvard store.
Unfortunately you need a valid Harvard student ID to buy there.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by hihostevo
Earlier someone posted a note that their college bookstore was selling the 15" PB with SuperDrive for $2,099 which inlcuded Applecare.

Would you please re-post that schools information?

Thx,

Steve

The UObookstore.com has the 15" 867 with combo for $1699.

[TomA]

Does anyone know what the historical time frame has been between price reductions like the ones we saw yesterday and a new product being released?

I think that would be the best predictor of a time frame for the new laptops.

Anyone?

[Sun Baked]

June 19, 2003 was Motorola's estimated date for shipment of the next series of G4 processors for general consumption.

Should be interesting to see where Apple comes out on the timeline.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by TomA
Does anyone know what the historical time frame has been between price reductions like the ones we saw yesterday and a new product being released?

I think that would be the best predictor of a time frame for the new laptops.

Anyone?

As far as I know there is no set amount of time. Apple updates things when they want to. They have in the past made a price cut then update a couple weeks later and in other cases they made a price cut and it was a month or more. Anyone that says they have figured out Apples marketing practices is a fool there are not consistencies.

[mathew]

Originally posted by TomA
Does anyone know what the historical time frame has been between price reductions like the ones we saw yesterday and a new product being released?

I think that would be the best predictor of a time frame for the new laptops.

Anyone?

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

[TomA]

Thanks for the link, but it doesn't exactly answer the question (but it is still an interesting link).

The question remains:

What is the average length of time between a price drop (like the ones we saw yesterday) and a new product announcement?

It would be especially helpful if someone could provide this information for powerbooks specifically!

For example: how long was it between the price reduction in the 550/667 Powerbooks and the release of the 867 Powerbooks?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by TomA
Thanks for the link, but it doesn't exactly answer the question (but it is still an interesting link).

The question remains:

What is the average length of time between a price drop (like the ones we saw yesterday) and a new product announcement?

It would be especially helpful if someone could provide this information for powerbooks specifically!

For example: how long was it between the price reduction in the 550/667 Powerbooks and the release of the 867 Powerbooks?


Actually the price drops are a fairly new thing that in my memory seems to have only started since last July.

[HiHoStevo]

Originally posted by TheMightyG
That's the price at the Harvard store.
Unfortunately you need a valid Harvard student ID to buy there.

Thanks MightyG.......

That is a bummer.... I was hoping they would accept a valid student ID from another Univ.

Steve

[HiHoStevo]

Originally posted by MacBandit
The UObookstore.com has the 15" 867 with combo for $1699.

Not to be lame, but which school is UO??

I can think of several with those initials...

Steve

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by hihostevo
Not to be lame, but which school is UO??

I can think of several with those initials...

Steve

Sorry I just figured people would type it into there browser. It will bring up the University of Oregon Book Store.

[HiHoStevo]

Thanks Bandit................

I apparently only noticed the UOBookstore and neglected to notice the ".com" on the end of it.

Steve

Ps. I just checked the web site and they list the price as 1899 on the 15"PB w/867 not 1689.

Steve

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by hihostevo
Thanks Bandit................

I apparently only noticed the UOBookstore and neglected to notice the ".com" on the end of it.

Steve

Ps. I just checked the web site and they list the price as 1899 on the 15"PB w/867 not 1689.

Steve

When you go to the Powerbook page here (http://www.uobookstore.com/electronics/index.cfm). Click on the link at the bottom of the specs for the 17" PowerBook. It will bring up a PDF of there latest deals. In the middle of the page is the deal for the 15".

[robodweeb]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Actually the price drops are a fairly new thing that in my memory seems to have only started since last July.

As of August 2001, Apple had been "channel clearing" (dropping the prices of existing products to make way for new models) for at least a year and a half ... at least with big buyers. I can remember meetings where I/my former employer would be offered significant discounts (up to 50%) if we bought in lots of 20, 50, 100.

Not all big buyers passed those savings on to their customers, but I do recall noticing some online sites offering special deals at the same time as we were being offered them.

Now that Apple has its own stores, the AppleStore (including academic discoutns) online, I'm not surprised that they are bypassing the middlemen and offering deals directly to consumers ... it's a smart move for those looking for a cheap Mac and not lusting after the bleeding edge ...

cheerz!

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by robodweeb
lusting after the bleeding edge ...

yep, lust about sums it up.

[HiHoStevo]

Thanks again Bandit..........

I looked up the .pdf file and unfortuanately the special ended April 30, 2003.

However, I think I will call them tomorrow and see if it might still be available.

Steve

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by hihostevo
Thanks again Bandit..........

I looked up the .pdf file and unfortuanately the special ended April 30, 2003.

However, I think I will call them tomorrow and see if it might still be available.

Steve

So it did. Thanks for noticing that. I'll quit mentioning it and quit thinking about it. I wonder if they will have a new deal especially now that the prices have dropped.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by robodweeb
As of August 2001, Apple had been "channel clearing" (dropping the prices of existing products to make way for new models) for at least a year and a half ... at least with big buyers. I can remember meetings where I/my former employer would be offered significant discounts (up to 50%) if we bought in lots of 20, 50, 100.

Not all big buyers passed those savings on to their customers, but I do recall noticing some online sites offering special deals at the same time as we were being offered them.

Now that Apple has its own stores, the AppleStore (including academic discoutns) online, I'm not surprised that they are bypassing the middlemen and offering deals directly to consumers ... it's a smart move for those looking for a cheap Mac and not lusting after the bleeding edge ...

cheerz!


Thanks, that explains that. I hadn't thought about the Apple Stores making the change in their buisness practice. So before about last August they had discounts but just to resellers after last August they begain passing the discounts on directly because they have their own established retail chain. I would make a bet that they still offer much deeper discounts to resellers.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by WannabeSQ
That would be enough to get me from wanting the iBook and getting the powerbook. Can you still add a superdrive at that price?

Nope. That's just the combo drive model. Still, $1399 for a G4 PowerBook is nothing to sneeze at, new models on their way or not...

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Thanks, that explains that. I hadn't thought about the Apple Stores making the change in their buisness practice. So before about last August they had discounts but just to resellers after last August they begain passing the discounts on directly because they have their own established retail chain. I would make a bet that they still offer much deeper discounts to resellers.

In terms of timing, I seem to remember that those price cuts happen at least 3 to 4 weeks before the actual update. I am not saying this is going to happen this time, but I wouldn't put my hopes up for a quick update.
On a different note, IF Apple announce their 970 PMacs at WWDC (think long presentation, 64bits, performance, etc...), I do not see Apple presenting also 2 new laptops, those being more consumer-orientated machines. My guess is early-to-mid July for 12" update and (maybe, just maybe) 15" update the week before the WWDC (which would make it in 10 days time...-ish).

My 0.02p.

NicoMan

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by NicoMan
In terms of timing, I seem to remember that those price cuts happen at least 3 to 4 weeks before the actual update. I am not saying this is going to happen this time, but I wouldn't put my hopes up for a quick update.
On a different note, IF Apple announce their 970 PMacs at WWDC (think long presentation, 64bits, performance, etc...), I do not see Apple presenting also 2 new laptops, those being more consumer-orientated machines. My guess is early-to-mid July for 12" update and (maybe, just maybe) 15" update the week before the WWDC (which would make it in 10 days time...-ish).

My 0.02p.

NicoMan


I agree that it would be in their best interests to spread the releases out like they did earlier this year. If any mention of the PPC970 is made at the WWDC I'll eat my sock. Not so much a bet but it'll simply happen from shock and excitement. I don't expect to hear anything about it until they're ready to be released and I see that as no earlier then August.

[ouketii]

heres hoping that the 'year of the notebooks' isnt jsut the year of two notebooks.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ouketii
heres hoping that the 'year of the notebooks' isnt jsut the year of two notebooks.

Haha, that's a new thought. Maybe they meant the year of the notebooks literally. Like it would be a year until they would release any other computer from the date they released the 12" and 17". I'm glad that I'm pretty damn sure that that isn't true.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Haha, that's a new thought. Maybe they meant the year of the notebooks literally. Like it would be a year until they would release any other computer from the date they released the 12" and 17". I'm glad that I'm pretty damn sure that that isn't true.


Man... don't scare me with thoughts like that!! ;)

[Nobs]

Both ClubMac and MacMall have lowered their prices an additional $50 on the 867's bringing the price to $1940.83!

Hmmmm...they really want these things out of here...could we see an update even sooner than WWDC?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Nobs
Both ClubMac and MacMall have lowered their prices an additional $50 on the 867's bringing the price to $1940.83!

Hmmmm...they really want these things out of here...could we see an update even sooner than WWDC?

Yes, most definitely. They will not announce laptops at a developer conference. Maybe PowerMacs but not laptops.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MacBandit
If any mention of the PPC970 is made at the WWDC I'll eat my sock.

Cotton or wool your sock? If I were you I would get rid of all your socks so you can't technically honor this...
MacBidouille (can you believe it?) are saying this morning that some corporate sales people are dropping more hints about a 'new computing platform' being announced at WWDC. They are quite vague about the actual availability though...

NicoMan

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by NicoMan
Cotton or wool your sock? If I were you I would get rid of all your socks so you can't technically honor this...
MacBidouille (can you believe it?) are saying this morning that some corporate sales people are dropping more hints about a 'new computing platform' being announced at WWDC. They are quite vague about the actual availability though...

NicoMan

Like I said it's not a bet it's more then likely it will happen by pure accident at the shock of all of it. I still don't buy it that it will happen before August or September at the earliest.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Like I said it's not a bet it's more then likely it will happen by pure accident at the shock of all of it. I still don't buy it that it will happen before August or September at the earliest.

I personally think that the 970 will be announced at WWDC but that we won't get machines before end of july (of course I would like to be pleasantly surprised) and that those boxes that are ready for the 24th of June (another MacBidouille rumor, if I remember correctly), are the 15" AluBook...

C'mon, Apple, bring it on!

NicoMan

[cb911]

Originally posted by NicoMan
I personally think that the 970 will be announced at WWDC but that we won't get machines before end of july (of course I would like to be pleasantly surprised) and that those boxes that are ready for the 24th of June (another MacBidouille rumor, if I remember correctly), are the 15" AluBook...

C'mon, Apple, bring it on!

NicoMan

yeah, it seems that all things are pointing to a couple of things being anounced at WWDC. especially the fact that Apple said to "come and see the future of Apple", or something to that effect, suggesting a future OS and hardware.

[cb911]

Originally posted by NicoMan
I personally think that the 970 will be announced at WWDC but that we won't get machines before end of july (of course I would like to be pleasantly surprised) and that those boxes that are ready for the 24th of June (another MacBidouille rumor, if I remember correctly), are the 15" AluBook...

C'mon, Apple, bring it on!

NicoMan

yeah, it seems that all things are pointing to a couple of things being anounced at WWDC. especially the fact that Apple said to "come and see the future of Apple", or something to that effect, suggesting a future OS and hardware.

[jimthorn]

I hope the new prices on the PowerBooks stay in effect when the new 15" AlBooks arrive. I don't think I could resist one for under $2000.

[Mr. G4]

Originally posted by TheMightyG
That's the price at the Harvard store.
Unfortunately you need a valid Harvard student ID to buy there.

There is a similar deal at UCI in CA

http://grace.book.uci.edu/bookstore/computer/pbook/pbooks.html :cool:

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jimthorn
I hope the new prices on the PowerBooks stay in effect when the new 15" AlBooks arrive. I don't think I could resist one for under $2000.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one. The 'new' prices are almost certainly simply discounts to clear out older inventory before the new models are released. You might be able to still get the older models at these prices, but I'd bet good money that the new models will jump back to the regular price.

[LSP]

All powerbooks, powermacs, ibooks, imac and emacs are showing 30 day delivery on the apple store. Either a big mistake or a big change.

[rmac]

Originally posted by LSP
All powerbooks, powermacs, ibooks, imac and emacs are showing 30 day delivery on the apple store. Either a big mistake or a big change.

Bummer....I checked and saw the 30 day thing on everything but the iPod. But now the computers have switched back to "same day."

On a different note, anyone else think that Panther will include a resolution independent version of Quartz? Then Apple could start using these high res notebook monitors that are used on PCs with little or no drawbacks; could always expand things up when reading small text, or leave things smaller when using things like Photoshop. Resizing of icons works amazingly well, especially if you've seen how other OS's look when they do it (pretty ugly). Dell had what, a 1920 x 1200 on one of their laptops.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by rmac
Bummer....I checked and saw the 30 day thing on everything but the iPod. But now the computers have switched back to "same day."

On a different note, anyone else think that Panther will include a resolution independent version of Quartz? Then Apple could start using these high res notebook monitors that are used on PCs with little or no drawbacks; could always expand things up when reading small text, or leave things smaller when using things like Photoshop. Resizing of icons works amazingly well, especially if you've seen how other OS's look when they do it (pretty ugly). Dell had what, a 1920 x 1200 on one of their laptops.

Huh, what are you talking about. Resolution independent version of Quarts? For all of us who use Multiscan CRTs Quarts works no matter what the resolution. Is there some specific thing you are trying to describe?

[Ugg]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Yes, most definitely. They will not announce laptops at a developer conference. Maybe PowerMacs but not laptops.

Steve has made it clear that this is the year of the laptop....

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Huh, what are you talking about. Resolution independent version of Quarts? For all of us who use Multiscan CRTs Quarts works no matter what the resolution. Is there some specific thing you are trying to describe?

I think he is refering to the possibility of specifying the fonts (and other graphical elements) in actual real-world size, so that higher rez doesn't mean smaller icons/fonts. I'm not sure I'm being very clear...
Oh well.

NicoMan

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Ugg
Steve has made it clear that this is the year of the laptop....

Are you basing that on one comment that was made five months ago? If so, I'm afraid you've been taken in by marketing speak. Yes, Apple will release updated PowerBooks. They may release them side-by-side with the new Power Macs. They may release them with 970 processors. They may release them at the WWDC. But none of that has anything to do with it being 'the year of the laptop'. That was just marketing back when they weren't expecting to be able to have the 970s in hand until Q3 or Q4 of this year. Now, if we're to believe everything that we've been hearing, they've got the 970 as much as six months ahead of when they expected them, so they can produce new computers accordingly.

Also, don't believe everything Uncle Steve tells you. Sometimes he likes to tell us bed time stories to make us sleep a little better... :p

[MetallicPenguin]

I think when he said the Year of The Laptop, he meant it was the year I am getting a laptop....hopefully. I really want a 15 in. Aluminum, with at least a 1GHz (preferebly a 1.2), backlit keyboard, bluetooth, airport, firewire 800, etc....

[Ugg]

Originally posted by MetallicPenguin
I think when he said the Year of The Laptop, he meant it was the year I am getting a laptop....hopefully. I really want a 15 in. Aluminum, with at least a 1GHz (preferebly a 1.2), backlit keyboard, bluetooth, airport, firewire 800, etc....

You got that right! I really want that backlit keyboard. Although the 17" is nice it is just too big and the 12" is just too small. Hype, marketing, bed time story or whatever, it is the computer that I want.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Are you basing that on one comment that was made five months ago? If so, I'm afraid you've been taken in by marketing speak. Yes, Apple will release updated PowerBooks. They may release them side-by-side with the new Power Macs. They may release them with 970 processors. They may release them at the WWDC. But none of that has anything to do with it being 'the year of the laptop'. That was just marketing back when they weren't expecting to be able to have the 970s in hand until Q3 or Q4 of this year. Now, if we're to believe everything that we've been hearing, they've got the 970 as much as six months ahead of when they expected them, so they can produce new computers accordingly........


That's kind of what I've been thinking less the part about the 970s. Basically they can release all the different hardware where ever and do nothing with the laptops for the rest of the year and in Apples eyes it would still be the year of the laptop. The reason is that the primary product they pushed for the first 6 months of the year is the laptop. Marketing wise that establishes it as the product for the year. Also they have the best laptop lineup the way it sits right now that they have had ever. I think that alone makes it the year of the laptop.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by NicoMan
I think he is refering to the possibility of specifying the fonts (and other graphical elements) in actual real-world size, so that higher rez doesn't mean smaller icons/fonts. I'm not sure I'm being very clear...
Oh well.

NicoMan


That sounds reasonable. While it would be nice to have adjustable font size and type on the desktop I hardly find it necessary since 99% of my work is done from within applications on the the finder. Nearly all the apps I use have adjustable font size so I can run the resolution as high as I want and still adjust the text to the point I can read it. If I have to use the finder I just click the monitor menu at the top of the screen and switch to a lower res. I don't really have to do this it's kind of a theoretical proposition. The only app I ever have to adjust text in is Safari. In any case I don't think Apple puts the lower res screens on their laptops and displays because of limitations in the finder. I think they do it simply because LCDs have a native resolution if that resolution is extemely high it becomes a problem for a lot of people and programs. This is because by running an LCD at any other resolution then it's native resolution causes everything to blur slightly. So what you get is a video game that can't be driven above 1024x768 all of a sudden looks blury. Someone that doesn't want to have to adjust the text size or a novice that doesn't know how to will have a blurry screen because they have to run at a lower resolution. Also what is the advantage of running a higher resolution and then increasing the size of icons and fonts you end up with the same amount of screen space. You would have more programs like photoshop but you wouldn't be able to read any of the tabs or buttons. The only answer with LCDs is to get a bigger screen or additional ones.

[rmac]

Originally posted by rmac
anyone else think that Panther will include a resolution independent version of Quartz? Then Apple could start using these high res notebook monitors that are used on PCs with little or no drawbacks; could always expand things up when reading small text, or leave things smaller when using things like Photoshop. Resizing of icons works amazingly well, especially if you've seen how other OS's look when they do it (pretty ugly). Dell had what, a 1920 x 1200 on one of their laptops.

Sorry for the confusion about what I was trying to describe. NicoMan got what I was trying to say.

I use Photoshop a lot, and so when I used the word "resolution", I was thinking in terms of ppi (pixels per inch), not pixel dimensions for the screen (1024 x 768, etc). When you think in terms of ppi, the greater the number, the more image data can be resolved in a given area. Right now we are pretty limited in terms of how we can use higher ppi resolutions: namely, things just get crammed into a smaller real-world area on the screen. If you use a CRT, as has been pointed out, you can change the resolution to take advantage of this real-world size change. LCDs are not as flexible, as has also been pointed out. Go lower than the native resolution and things get fuzzy. Can't go over the native resolution.

So if the LCD resolution on your Powerbook is fixed, you can only get the flexiblity of a CRT by being able to adjust the pixel dimensions of GUI elements. I mentioned icons before as it's an example we can see now. Open your home directory, view it as Icons, then go to View Options. Drag the size up to 128. The pictures on the folders suddenly have a lot more detail you can see. Now I usually leave the size at 48 on my 19" CRT at 1600x1200. I could make it smaller, but at 32x32 pixels your back to OS 9 detail. If my monitor had twice the ppi size, I could make them be the same size on the screen at 96, in which case they'd be sharper than before; at 48 they'd be smaller yet still the same level of detail. Plus I have all the sizess in between to play around with.

Now if Apple can do size changes for icons in small, 4 pixel increments, why can't they do the same with every GUI element: scrollbars, buttons, text, etc.? The difficulty would come in making things scale in relation to eachother when needed (e.g. text in buttons). Font size in points is a real world measurement, not a pixel measurement. So in some ways it's kind of silly for a 12pt font to get smaller when you change the ppi of a monitor. We've learned how to use this to our advantage, but isn't necessarily logical to the average user.

In conclusion, higher ppi screens means you can have either more screen real estate, with everything smaller on the screen, or things the same size but much sharper. Either way it sounds better to me than current resolutions (especially on the 14" iBook, and 15" iMac). A 1024 x 768 video game is never going to be optimal on a 15" Powerbook or any of the widescreen Macs. Either have black edges on the sides or you have to use non-native resolution.

[robodweeb]

Originally posted by NicoMan
In terms of timing, I seem to remember that those price cuts happen at least 3 to 4 weeks before the actual update.

I agree and I also recall that they occured just before the end of a financial quarter (presumably to boost unit sales figures) ...

cheerz!

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by rmac
Sorry for the confusion about what I was trying to describe. NicoMan got what I was trying to say. ..............


Thanks for clearing that up. I agree there is no reason that they could go to a higher density screen and just make everything larger in the GUI. The only problem is keeping developers on tract so there programs aren't tiny looking. It should be doable with the cocoa guidlines but there's a lot of bad code out there even with cocoa. It would be cool though to have higherdensity (more detail) screens. I personally believe that unless LCDs change dramatically I will always have a CRT for a main monitor. I'll use it for games and whatever else that requires resolution changes also you just can't beat the pixels/inch that you get with a CRT especially for the dollars.

[jackburton]

am waiting for the pb15 too although the tibook right now has a very attractive price.

for what's it worth, my 'friend' in apple says the pbs will all be updated but won't come up until august (but with delays which is likely, maybe sept or oct).

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by rmac
NicoMan got what I was trying to say.
But it was a bit confused in my head too. Thanks for your detailed clarification. I definitely couldn't have said it better.

NicoMan

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jackburton
am waiting for the pb15 too although the tibook right now has a very attractive price.

for what's it worth, my 'friend' in apple says the pbs will all be updated but won't come up until august (but with delays which is likely, maybe sept or oct).

I find that highly suspect. It places the 15" well outside what has been the target update cycle for the PowerBooks (as it's right at update time now), and even pushes the 12" and 17" beyond what would would be expected. Now, that being said, I'll also stand by my earlier statements that the longer we have to wait for the updates, the more likely it is that we will see a processor upgrade and not just a speed bump (which it's questionable if they even could do that with the current G4s).

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I personally believe that unless LCDs change dramatically I will always have a CRT for a main monitor. I'll use it for games and whatever else that requires resolution changes also you just can't beat the pixels/inch that you get with a CRT especially for the dollars.
You know in an office environment, and unless you really need the ability to change screen res, TFTs are definitely better. Power, heat dissipation (strain on A/C), footprint and (supposedly) radiations. But I guess we have all heard those arguments before...
At work and at home I use only TFTs now, and I don't see any problem at all (I play games too). I just wish we could have more and more pixel density. I don't care if the fonts are small, as long as they are detailed enough. When working on your computer you are never away from your screen more than a couple of feet so small fonts don't really matter. We need more desktop space!! (Before you tell me to get more screens I am running 3 Formac Gallery 2010 LCDs... but I want more, more!!).

NicoMan

[jackburton]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
I find that highly suspect. It places the 15" well outside what has been the target update cycle for the PowerBooks (as it's right at update time now), and even pushes the 12" and 17" beyond what would would be expected. Now, that being said, I'll also stand by my earlier statements that the longer we have to wait for the updates, the more likely it is that we will see a processor upgrade and not just a speed bump (which it's questionable if they even could do that with the current G4s).

That seems like a fair assessment to me especially if, as my friend says, ALL the PBs will have a new update in the FALL. To me this sounds like they will have a entirely new processor.

Still, I am tempted by the lower price of the current tibooks. I figure I don't really need any super speeds, and aluminum, titanium won't make any difference to me. FW800, don't got any. etc. only problem is the cash. I would have to wait a few months anyways. :(

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by jackburton
That seems like a fair assessment to me especially if, as my friend says, ALL the PBs will have a new update in the FALL. To me this sounds like they will have a entirely new processor.

Still, I am tempted by the lower price of the current tibooks. I figure I don't really need any super speeds, and aluminum, titanium won't make any difference to me. FW800, don't got any. etc. only problem is the cash. I would have to wait a few months anyways. :(
I'll tell you what: the TiBook is a great buy at those prices. And I don't see how, considering the little room for manoeuvre Apple have, they can make the new Alu 15" much better. Screen? Unlikely (It's been rumoured to be of a lower rez). Graphics card? We are all hoping for a radeon 9600, but who knows. DDR? The speed increase (if any) is minimal. Airport Extreme and the 'tooth? If you really need them. CPU? Great, now you could have 1.25GHz G4 instead of a 1GHz... Brilliant...Hmmmmm

Conclusion: unless we get a 970 in the 15" at WWDC (doubtful but possible IMHO), the TiBook is the bargain of the moment.

My 0.02¢.

NicoMan

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by NicoMan
...
Conclusion: unless we get a 970 in the 15" at WWDC (doubtful but possible IMHO), the TiBook is the bargain of the moment.

My 0.02¢.

NicoMan

Well put. Something I'd like to add to my earlier post is that, if we don't see an update for several months yet, there is the possibility that we'd see, not a 970 PB, but a 7457 G4 PB. I'm still dubious about this, but the longer we have to wait for the update, the greater the possibility that Moto could get their new chip up and running...

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by NicoMan
You know in an office environment, and unless you really need the ability to change screen res, TFTs are definitely better. Power, heat dissipation (strain on A/C), footprint and (supposedly) radiations. But I guess we have all heard those arguments before...
At work and at home I use only TFTs now, and I don't see any problem at all (I play games too). I just wish we could have more and more pixel density. I don't care if the fonts are small, as long as they are detailed enough. When working on your computer you are never away from your screen more than a couple of feet so small fonts don't really matter. We need more desktop space!! (Before you tell me to get more screens I am running 3 Formac Gallery 2010 LCDs... but I want more, more!!).

NicoMan

See besides being fixed at a resolution (at least for quality) that is the biggest problem of LCDs. I could have bought 3 nice 19" monitors for the price of 1 of your 2010s and each of those monitors would have had nearly twice the desktop space also because of the high resolutions they can run.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacBandit
See besides being fixed at a resolution (at least for quality) that is the biggest problem of LCDs. I could have bought 3 nice 19" monitors for the price of 1 of your 2010s and each of those monitors would have had nearly twice the desktop space also because of the high resolutions they can run.

Ah, yes, but each of those would also have taken up at least twice as much desktop space... Thus, the glory of the flat-panel display.

Also, I think that it's hard to argue that LCDs aren't more crisp and clear at their native resolution than any CRT.

However, all of this may well be moot, as the next generation in flat-panel displays may well be based on buckey tubes, having most of the good characteristics of the CRT (and some of the bad ones, too), while acheiving the dimensional parameters of an LCD. Can you imagine, a laptop that you can really use in sunlight?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Ah, yes, but each of those would also have taken up at least twice as much desktop space... Thus, the glory of the flat-panel display.

Also, I think that it's hard to argue that LCDs aren't more crisp and clear at their native resolution than any CRT.

However, all of this may well be moot, as the next generation in flat-panel displays may well be based on buckey tubes, having most of the good characteristics of the CRT (and some of the bad ones, too), while acheiving the dimensional parameters of an LCD. Can you imagine, a laptop that you can really use in sunlight?

Yes the old desk space thing. Ah, to have a work area with huge desks so you can have a half dozen 24" CRTs on it but I don't have it and it's only a dream. As it is I don't have room for a wider monitor period. Though I do have the depth so I can have either a CRT or an LCD in the area a 17" screen will fit in. I think I'll stick to the CRT for now because I get such higher resolutions out of it. Yes LCDs are very very sharp for text and static images at their native resolution but I would argue that you can get a high end CRT for near the same price as an LCD that has a refresh rate exceeding 100Hz that would look nearly the same.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacBandit
Yes the old desk space thing. Ah, to have a work area with huge desks so you can have a half dozen 24" CRTs on it but I don't have it and it's only a dream. As it is I don't have room for a wider monitor period. Though I do have the depth so I can have either a CRT or an LCD in the area a 17" screen will fit in. I think I'll stick to the CRT for now because I get such higher resolutions out of it. Yes LCDs are very very sharp for text and static images at their native resolution but I would argue that you can get a high end CRT for near the same price as an LCD that has a refresh rate exceeding 100Hz that would look nearly the same.

Now, don't get me wrong, I agree with you. CRTs are a lot less expensive than LCD, even at the high end. So, you can get a really nice CRT, and still pay less than what you'd pay for an LCD. But, even the nicest CRT isn't quite as crisp as an LCD at its native resolution. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it may be good enough (and most of the time I'd argue that it is), but it's still not quite as good...

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Now, don't get me wrong, I agree with you. CRTs are a lot less expensive than LCD, even at the high end. So, you can get a really nice CRT, and still pay less than what you'd pay for an LCD. But, even the nicest CRT isn't quite as crisp as an LCD at its native resolution. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it may be good enough (and most of the time I'd argue that it is), but it's still not quite as good...

We can just say that: different needs for different people... Anyway we have veered slightly off-topic. Anyone care to talk about PowerBooks (G4 or G5)? :D

[rmac]

So I've read a couple people in different threads expressing hesitation about getting a Rev A G5 Powerbook (whenever it should come out). I think they were referring to potential hardware problems (heat, faulty monitors, etc.) that have happened in the past. I got one of the first G4 systems and have never had any problems with it. So in my experience, the drawback of getting a Rev A system is that applications may not take advantage of its new technology for a year or so. In that years time, new systems arrive that are faster and/or cheaper that can immediately take advantage of that technology. If rumors come true about the 970 coming out before Panther, then buyers of these systems will not see the potential of their systems for a few months, at the least; Panther will probably bring a great deal of optimizations, but more would surely come in only later in the update cycle.

To look at it as "the glass is half full," the continual optimizations for G4s in OS X over the past few years have made my old G4 seem to get better with time. That and adding extra RAM. ; )

All that said, I would get a rev A Powerbook G5. I'd be interested to hear others' thoughts on this issue.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Now, don't get me wrong, I agree with you. CRTs are a lot less expensive than LCD, even at the high end. So, you can get a really nice CRT, and still pay less than what you'd pay for an LCD. But, even the nicest CRT isn't quite as crisp as an LCD at its native resolution. Yes, for all intents and purposes, it may be good enough (and most of the time I'd argue that it is), but it's still not quite as good...


It's all good. I'm not fighting I was just saying that I think a high end CRT is better for vide and a LCD is better for static images and text.