Sony - The Sales/Shipped figures are in.

[MacRumorUser]

Sony Misses 2006 PS3 Targets
But you already knew that, didn't you.
by Anoop Gantayat
January 30, 2007 - Everyone and their DS-playing mom knew this already, but Sony has at last admitted to not making its worldwide shipment targets for the PlayStation 3 in 2006. As part of its third quarter financial report covering 10/2006 to 12/2006, the company announced today that worldwide shipments in 2006 for the new hardware capped off at 1.84 million units, short of the promised 2 million.

North America got most of those units, at 1.03 million. Japan got 810,000 units, with numbers climbing up past a million in the first few weeks of January.

The company is still aiming for 6 million units shipped by the end of March. By then, the PS3 will have launched in Europe.

Other Sony gaming hardware saw declines compared to the same period in the previous year. The PS2 shipped 4.11 million units, down by 23% from last year's 5.36 million units. The PSP shipped 1.76 million units, down by 72% from last year's 6.22 million units.

In software, PS3 saw shipments of 5.2 million units for the year. PSP saw an increase of 24% over the previous year, hitting 21.2 million game titles. PS2 dropped 16% from the previous year, with 78 million games shipped.

All the lowered shipments along with the PS3 launch caused some dark figures for Sony's games division. While sales for the quarter rose 5.6% from the same period last year to 442.8 trillion yen, operating profits dropped sharply from a gain of 67.8 trillion yen last year to a loss of 122.0 trillion yen this year.

The company expects to stop taking losses on PS3 hardware in the next term, Sony CFO (chief financial officer) Nobuyuki Oneda announced at the financial briefing. One means of doing this will be through smaller chip sizes. The company has already started manufacturing CELL chips using a 65 nanometer process, Japan's IT Media reports.

Even with a turn in fortunes on Sony's hardware losses, don't expect a price drop any time soon. Oneda said that Sony is not consdering a price drop right now, although something could be possible in 2 or 3 years.

In response to that massive drop in PSP shipments for the quarter, Oneda said that Sony will not be giving on the platform, repeating past promises that a number of ideas are under consideration.

The PSP figure surprised me. A lot.....

PS3 only just missed it's targets. I'm still extrememly skeptical about 6 million by march, I expect that to drop to 3.5 - 4 million. After all 'aiming' for is an ideal figure, not necessarily a realistic one.

[fiercetiger224]

The PSP figure surprised me. A lot.....

PS3 only just missed it's targets. I'm still extrememly skeptical about 6 million by march, I expect that to drop to 3.5 - 4 million. After all 'aiming' for is an ideal figure, not necessarily a realistic one.

I agree. There's still not anything worth getting, and only Virtua Fighter 5 will make it out by the end of Feb. And then by the end of March, we'll have Motorstorm. I expect the shipments to be around 5-6 million. But not over 6 million obviously. We'll see what happens.

[Coded-Dude]

24 million PSP's in two years is astonishing(even if its getting pwnt by DS)

[fiercetiger224]

Yeah, considering the price hasn't dropped on the PSP and is almost twice that of the Nintendo DS, it's doing incredibly well. Not only that, but it's probably the only portable ever to actually be able to sell well in the market with Nintendo dominating. It's actually got some excellent titles as well. My current favorite is Metal Gear Portable Ops.

In the meantime, I'll be waiting for Virtua Fighter 5 and Motorstorm...Back to online Resistance. :D

[MacRumorUser]

In the meantime, I'll be waiting for Virtua Fighter 5 and Motorstorm...Back to online Resistance. :D

Is virtua definetly the 20th ?

the place I get my US games is saying April ? :o (I know its June for Europe)

http://www.dvdboxoffice.com/742-2383942-11383947/games/playstation3/products/90263467

[Coded-Dude]

http://www.sega.com/gamesite/vf5/phase2/index.html

Sega says: ships on the 20th.

[MacRumorUser]

sweet. guess i'll pre-order regardless then :)

[Coded-Dude]

looks like it may be out in japan in 9 days...........

[Dagless]

Yup. To do well in the handheld market is a sign of something. Nintendo has had that since the 80's, no way in hell was Sony ever going to topple the Gameboy/DS. But yea. Best competitor so far. They do a stellar job with the PSP2 and I'll buy one, hopefully sticking with it this time!

[Tommyg117]

The PS3 just doesn't have any massively impressive games out. They put out more games, they can sway people's opinions.

[sikkinixx]

Are those the actual final figures? I'm a little more cautious than usual over sales figures after I just read this from IGN

"And that's the key here. Sales figures and shipping figures are deceptive beasts at the best of times, but even when Microsoft announced at CES in early January that they had exceeded expectations by "hitting the 10.4 million-console-sold mark", that still needs to be translated. Rather than meaning that 10.4 million consoles are sitting in homes around the world, it's our understanding that when Microsoft says "sold" it means that 10.4 million consoles have been sold on to retail. While this is still an impressive achievement, in all likelihood retailers are probably still selling quite a lot of them. With that in mind, it's not too surprising to see the shipment target reduce"


Freakin companies and their marketing BS.... just give it to the people straight.

[zap2]

Doesn't look good for PSP, but the PS3 is doing better then some make it out to be

[GFLPraxis]

24 million PSP's in two years is astonishing(even if its getting pwnt by DS)


Astonishingly BAD, you mean. Where does it say 24 million PSP's in two years? It says 21 million PSP *games* shipped. Which means either every PSP owner buys very few games (2 games per PSP owner = 10 million PSPs) or the PSP has sold miserably. I'm thinking a combination of the two.

[fiercetiger224]

Astonishingly BAD, you mean. Where does it say 24 million PSP's in two years? It says 21 million PSP *games* shipped. Which means either every PSP owner buys very few games (2 games per PSP owner = 10 million PSPs) or the PSP has sold miserably. I'm thinking a combination of the two.

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatapsp_e.html

It says that Sony has SHIPPED 24.70 million PSPs worldwide. Which means that at least maybe 20-22 million have been sold.

[SamIchi]

24 million PSP's in two years is astonishing(even if its getting pwnt by DS)

LOL :D are we readin the same article?

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatapsp_e.html

It says that Sony has SHIPPED 24.70 million PSPs worldwide. Which means that at least maybe 20-22 million have been sold.

... that's questionable, you can't really say how many has been sold based on how many have been shipped. If they went from shipping 6.2 mill to 1.7 mill, I'd say that they're doin pretty bad.

[tringo]

Just curious what you guys think. Do you think this signals a bad quarter for the entire video game industry?

Or did the Wii just take everyone else's sales?

[SamIchi]

Just curious what you guys think. Do you think this signals a bad quarter for the entire video game industry?

Or did the Wii just take everyone else's sales?

I think the videogame industry needs to rethink they're gameplan, more so on the Sony and MS side of things. If they keep goin' with the million dollar budget games with 3-5 yr production cycles, it's goin' to hit some kind of rut.

[MacNut]

I was at EB games yesterday and the guy said we have a bunch of PS3's in the back that are not selling, but we can't keep the Wii's in stock.

[tringo]

I was at EB games yesterday and the guy said we have a bunch of PS3's in the back that are not selling, but we can't keep the Wii's in stock.

Exactly what my theory was and what I was hoping to hear form someone else.

The reason being that I have been buying Gamestop shares on these "bad news" dips. (Gamestop is the owner of the EB games franchise, ps.)

[macidiot]

No real surprise here. The PSP is an also-ran. Unless they come out with some sort of killer app, and I mean major league stuff like an exclusive Final Fantasy game, or drop the price to $99, the PSP will die a slow death. I never owned a handheld until the DS. The games are awesome.

As for the PS3, I see it eventually doing well. Eventually, there will be a few critical games like FFXIII coming out that will sell PS3s.

Down the road I see myself with a Wii and a PS3. Then again I have zero interest in the 360. I can't stand FPS games (I get bored stupid by them), which basically means I have no interest in about 60% of the 360 games. Another 30% of 360 games are driving games or sports games, which are also boring. Which leaves a handful of games that might actually interest me. And of those, only about, umm, 2, are exclusive to the 360. How sad is it that the only games that really interest me on the 360 are Viva Pinata and Blue Dragon (which isn't even available here). Not quite enough for me to justify the purchase.

Honestly, I see the Wii ending up with first place. But not dominating like the PS2. Something along the lines of 40%, 30%, 30% sound about right. And maybe somewhere along the way, Microsoft might actually turn a profit in gaming. And put some sort of dent in the 8 billion it has lost so far... ;)

[MacNut]

The 360 will be the top gaming machine, The Wii will have respectable numbers and there is talk that the PS3 might be another Dreamcast if they can't pull the numbers up by the end of the year.

[GFLPraxis]

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/data/bizdatapsp_e.html

It says that Sony has SHIPPED 24.70 million PSPs worldwide. Which means that at least maybe 20-22 million have been sold.

Ya could have posted that earlier :P

Just curious what you guys think. Do you think this signals a bad quarter for the entire video game industry?

Or did the Wii just take everyone else's sales?

No, just Sony.

The XBox 360 and Wii sold incredibly. However, Microsoft massively overshipped so they could claim "we sold 10 million units!" and a lot of XBox 360s sat on the shelf but the Wii and 360 sold similar numbers.

The Nintendo DS has sold ridiculous numbers, with a 5-to-1 lead in Japan and 2-to-1 lead in the U.S.

The PSP and PS3 have just sold terribly.

PSP has a high number of shipped units, but the software sales are really bad (if they have indeed shipped 24 million PSP's, but only shipped 21 million games in 2006...PSP owners aren't buying a lot of games, or a lot of those PSP's are on the shelf).

The 360 will be the top gaming machine, The Wii will have respectable numbers and there is talk that the PS3 might be another Dreamcast if they can't pull the numbers up by the end of the year.

I'm actually starting to think the Wii will be top in sales because of all the non-gamers buying it. I know so many moms and dads and grandparents that have bought Wii's and never played a video game, and the demand for the system is so strong, it's still sold out a month after Christmas.

PS3 won't be a Dreamcast per se...the Dreamcast never reached 2 million sales and EA never made a game for the platform, AFAIK. It also had a marketing budget of 100 million. PS3 is guaranteed to outsell the Dreamcast (it may have already done so), but it may lose more money than the Dreamcast ever did.

[MacNut]

PS3 won't be a Dreamcast per se...the Dreamcast never reached 2 million sales and EA never made a game for the platform, AFAIK. It also had a marketing budget of 100 million. PS3 is guaranteed to outsell the Dreamcast (it may have already done so), but it may lose more money than the Dreamcast ever did.What I mean is if Sony can't sell enough to make a profit then they might be forced to stop development. There is only so much loss they can take before they have no choice but the pull the plug. If by this time next year the PS3 has not sold enough or falls really far behind the Wii then I think Sony might turn it into a media center type device.

[takao]

price drop fro the ps3 in 2-3 years ? what the ... are they thinking they are

and the psp shipping numbers totally breaking apart speak for themselves


for Microsoft over-shipping: i guess it's pretty obvious when you look at retail stores.. in the store heres they already have to pile them up in different departments
in one stores they are piled up between the coffee machines, in the other one around the digital cameras and those additional piles are generally around my height (1,75-1,77 meters) or more and have 5x4 in each level
in another stores they put it into one 20 meter shelf which is now completely filled with 360 premium boxes... quite i sight

[Dagless]

It's got a hard time coming up in Europe. Though the PSP had a great launch it started to dwindle over here, probably because Sony made us wait 9 whole months before launching the thing (bad move).

The tides are changing. In the GAMEs I visit they're increasing the DS and Wii's shelf space due to demand. PSP movies have been put in one of them bargain bin kinda things.

Happened to Atari, happened to Commodore, happened to Nintendo...

[fiercetiger224]

Ya could have posted that earlier :P

Haha but I wanted to wait for someone to jump in and ask what the real numbers were! :D

Anyway, everyone is forgetting the PS2 sales in this. It STILL outsold the 360 during the holidays, which is saying a lot. A six year old console still outselling a newer console...I'm just wondering, what would have happened if Sony didn't have production problems, and if they had released it in October instead of November. It would have been possible for them to sell all their stock, and they would have probably sold over 2 million systems if they hadn't had problems. All the bad publicity has made it seem like the console is bad.

I like it when you go to a store, like Best Buy, and then you have a fanboy talk crap about another console. Ain't the point to sell whatever you can!? You're trying to make money for the store so you can get paid, not sway people's opinions. I can understand you're "trying" to help the customer out, but c'mon, if you're talking to a customer that knows what they want, let them get what they want. If they don't know what they want, then at least tell them what the console is best for, not why it's not doing well, etc. "Oh gee, you know, the PS3, we got a big stack of them in the back, and we haven't sold one in a while! So you shouldn't buy one! Guess why I'm telling you this, it's because I'm a big fanboy of MS!" :rolleyes:

[2nyRiggz]

I didn't expect Sony to ship that much consoles in 2006. The PSP is still doing well then even though its getting owned by the DS...That goes to show you that the handheld market is in demand and I wouldn't mind another company coming in and offering more.



Bless

[Dunepilot]

price drop fro the ps3 in 2-3 years ? what the ... are they thinking they are

and the psp shipping numbers totally breaking apart speak for themselves


for Microsoft over-shipping: i guess it's pretty obvious when you look at retail stores.. in the store heres they already have to pile them up in different departments
in one stores they are piled up between the coffee machines, in the other one around the digital cameras and those additional piles are generally around my height (1,75-1,77 meters) or more and have 5x4 in each level
in another stores they put it into one 20 meter shelf which is now completely filled with 360 premium boxes... quite i sight

In the world of retail, having many of the same product on the shelf is generally seen to be a good thing, as it encourages people to buy. Sounds counterintuitive, but there you are.

[darkwing]

The 360 will be the top gaming machine, The Wii will have respectable numbers and there is talk that the PS3 might be another Dreamcast if they can't pull the numbers up by the end of the year.

I still predict that once everything shakes itself out in a couple years the ps3 will be #1. Once some games come out that are worth playing people will start snapping it up. Once you see the market share in Japan rise, the Japanese developers will start cranking out games. This is good for me, as I happen to love Japanese games. (playing Tales of the World now for PSP for example.) The 360 will never take off there no matter how many different color dragon games they make.

It's so easy to see the 360's year-long head start and feel they'll be on top because that's where the games are. The reality is that for months after it was released the "360 wall" at gamestop stores was less than nothing. Pitiful really. The same thing is going on now with the PS3.

Anyway, we'll see who is right in the end I suppose. :) But once MGS4 and FF13 come out (two games I'm not all that excited about personally) I think the Japanese gamers will start buying in droves.

As for me I'm an RPG fan (but not anything Square) and there's plenty of games still coming out for my ps2 to keep me busy. I only bought a ps3 because I wanted to see my 1080p LCOS set in action! I'm now bored with it because I've played all the launch titles I wanted to buy enough to feel finished with them.

I like it when you go to a store, like Best Buy, and then you have a fanboy talk crap about another console. Ain't the point to sell whatever you can!? You're trying to make money for the store so you can get paid, not sway people's opinions. I can understand you're "trying" to help the customer out, but c'mon, if you're talking to a customer that knows what they want, let them get what they want. If they don't know what they want, then at least tell them what the console is best for, not why it's not doing well, etc. "Oh gee, you know, the PS3, we got a big stack of them in the back, and we haven't sold one in a while! So you shouldn't buy one! Guess why I'm telling you this, it's because I'm a big fanboy of MS!" :rolleyes:

I have no problem with store owners helping out customers. I've had several instances at circuit city (shopping there is always a 2 hour experience for me each time I step in) where I'll start telling a customer not to buy anything with "monster" written on it because it's over-priced crap, and sales people will start agreeing with me and point the customers to cheaper cables.

When I bought my 60" Sony a few months ago, the guy pointed me to a Samsung DLP 1080p set that was $500 less and had more vivid colors. He suggested I get that since it would save me $500 and he personally likes how it looks better. Well, I checked online there at the store and did a little research, and found out the Samsung uses wobulation while the Sony was a true 1920x1080 set. So, that was that.

[Coded-Dude]

Astonishingly BAD, you mean. Where does it say 24 million PSP's in two years? It says 21 million PSP *games* shipped. Which means either every PSP owner buys very few games (2 games per PSP owner = 10 million PSPs) or the PSP has sold miserably. I'm thinking a combination of the two.

Um.......PSP will be 2 years old in March(NA), meaning they have basically shipped 24 million in two years.
Is that confusing somehow? I don't understand your statement.
I didn't say or imply shipped/sold, I merely said 24million.

Considering most of the DS fans have already written the PSP off, it is doing astonishingly well.
Even without a price drop!
Now that there are some killer apps, a price drop is all Sony needs to make sales surge again. (MGS:PO, Daxter, R&C:SM-coming soon, ACX:SD, Tekken:DR, etc.)

As for SCE they are gonna make profit next year; thats not to say PS3 will be breaking even, but PS3's biggest competitor right now is PS2.
With 65nm CELL here now, and the EE+GS being removed from the PS3 soon, the price to produce will drop afair amount, which will help them prevent continued "losses" on the next-gen machine.

Remember, SCE is Sony's MOST profitable division, so they don't need PS3 to break even in order to make profts.
They are doing well withought PS3. (though It will turn a profit soon enough)

I'm sure they are trying to make as much capital as possible to re-coupe for PS3 R&D.
PS2 and PSP, plus some PS3 cost reduction - is what they are using.

The announcement was rather expected and not all that surprising, but it does show Sony is still doing very well in the gaming market.
(meeting their goals or coming close)

[Haoshiro]

Um.......PSP will be 2 years old in March(NA), meaning they have basically shipped 24 million in two years.
Is that confusing somehow? I don't understand your statement.
I didn't say or imply shipped/sold, I merely said 24million.

Considering most of the DS fans have already written the PSP off, it is doing astonishingly well.
Even without a price drop!
Now that there are some killer apps, a price drop is all Sony needs to make sales surge again. (MGS:PO, Daxter, R&C:SM-coming soon, ACX:SD, Tekken:DR, etc.)

As for SCE they are gonna make profit next year; thats not to say PS3 will be breaking even, but PS3's biggest competitor right now is PS2.
With 65nm CELL here now, and the EE+GS being removed from the PS3 soon, the price to produce will drop afair amount, which will help them prevent continued "losses" on the next-gen machine.

Remember, SCE is Sony's MOST profitable division, so they don't need PS3 to break even in order to make profts.
They are doing well withought PS3. (though It will turn a profit soon enough)

I'm sure they are trying to make as much capital as possible to re-coupe for PS3 R&D.
PS2 and PSP, plus some PS3 cost reduction - is what they are using.

The announcement was rather expected and not all that surprising, but it does show Sony is still doing very well in the gaming market.
(meeting their goals or coming close)

Seems like you are a bit confused by his comment, not the other way around.

All he is saying is that "24 million" is software numbers, not system numbers. So even at a low attach rate of 2 per system, that's 12 million actual systems shipped (500K/mo). Definitely not horrible. But if you consider the attach rate is likely more like 4:1 that's only 6 million systems, or 3M/yr. Which does seem pretty bad compared to everything else on the market.

As for SCE, what I heard was that it was the only profitable Sony division and was only profitable by a slim margin, causing them to barely stay afloat. That would suggest they do need PS3 to break even soon, so they can really start to turn a profit.

Problem I see with PS3 future at the moment is it doesn't seem like software is coming out... isn't MotorStorm set for March? And then what's the next title? Seems to be taking a long time for them to get anything into the market.

Even Wii seems to be getting more software, and faster...

[fiercetiger224]

I have no problem with store owners helping out customers. I've had several instances at circuit city (shopping there is always a 2 hour experience for me each time I step in) where I'll start telling a customer not to buy anything with "monster" written on it because it's over-priced crap, and sales people will start agreeing with me and point the customers to cheaper cables.

When I bought my 60" Sony a few months ago, the guy pointed me to a Samsung DLP 1080p set that was $500 less and had more vivid colors. He suggested I get that since it would save me $500 and he personally likes how it looks better. Well, I checked online there at the store and did a little research, and found out the Samsung uses wobulation while the Sony was a true 1920x1080 set. So, that was that.

Well, I was just merely pointing out the fact that there are fanboys working in electronics stores swaying customers to buy what THEY like. It's not about how much it costs, or what is better. The fanboys will say anything to get customers to buy what they like. And it's the branding. I know there are actually employees that help customers out, but there are people that just sway customers to buy what they like, no matter if its better or worse.

I totally understand your point on employees helping customers out. Buying a TV will definitely require help. A gaming console is another whole monster. It requires knowledge of games, audience, etc. Then there's the big case of, fanboy-ness. :rolleyes:

I'm glad I'm not one of those people. I buy every great console that comes out, because I like to help the competition, and because each console has games worth getting, hence exclusives.

[Dagless]

The announcement was rather expected and not all that surprising, but it does show Sony is still doing very well in the gaming market.
(meeting their goals or coming close)

Yet it's all doom and gloom for Nintendo who have expanded upon their original goals :rolleyes:

[Coded-Dude]

When did I say anything bad about Ninty?

[Dagless]

You didn't. It's just a passing reflection upon all those who say "Nintendo aren't doing well" etc. Wasn't aimed at you.

[Coded-Dude]

Nintendo is doing better than the competition, and better than most had expected.......:cool:

[ChrisK018]

It seems to me that there are some glass half-empty vs. glass half-full people in regards to Sony's numbers.

My personal opinion is that Sony should have done better-- with everything. There are no PS3 games I currently want. While I own one, there are no PSP games I'm too hot for.

My two most recent/favorite games were on the PS2 (FFXII and Okami). I have a Wii on the way for some Zelda.

If Sony could makes some games I like I'd get the PS3. So get on it Sony!

[fiercetiger224]

Seems like you are a bit confused by his comment, not the other way around.

All he is saying is that "24 million" is software numbers, not system numbers. So even at a low attach rate of 2 per system, that's 12 million actual systems shipped (500K/mo). Definitely not horrible. But if you consider the attach rate is likely more like 4:1 that's only 6 million systems, or 3M/yr. Which does seem pretty bad compared to everything else on the market.

As for SCE, what I heard was that it was the only profitable Sony division and was only profitable by a slim margin, causing them to barely stay afloat. That would suggest they do need PS3 to break even soon, so they can really start to turn a profit.

Problem I see with PS3 future at the moment is it doesn't seem like software is coming out... isn't MotorStorm set for March? And then what's the next title? Seems to be taking a long time for them to get anything into the market.

Even Wii seems to be getting more software, and faster...

I think everyone is in a bit of confusion here. Sony has already shipped OVER 24 million PSPs in less than two years. Software sales for 2006 ended up being 21.2 million, which is not including software sales for 2005.

Did anyone read the original post? PSP saw an increase of 24% over the previous year, hitting 21.2 million game titles. Do I need to repost the link for the actual shipments for the PSP again? :rolleyes: Coded-Dude knows what he's talkin' about.

As for GFLPraxis's post, he didn't know where Coded-Dude got shipment numbers for the 24 million PSPs. I provided the link later in this thread. GFLPraxis didn't include the software shipments for 2005, where he came to the conclusion that only 10 million PSP owner (not all 24 million) actually has 2 games. If he had added up the software shipments for 2005 and 2006, then EVERY PSP owner has at least 1 or 2 games. Hope this clears things up for everyone.

It seems to me that there are some glass half-empty vs. glass half-full people in regards to Sony's numbers.

My personal opinion is that Sony should have done better-- with everything. There are no PS3 games I currently want. While I own one, there are no PSP games I'm too hot for.

My two most recent/favorite games were on the PS2 (FFXII and Okami). I have a Wii on the way for some Zelda.

If Sony could makes some games I like I'd get the PS3. So get on it Sony!

I agree Sony has to get on it sooner than later. PS3 has a lot of titles worth mentioning, but may or may not be coming out this year. As for the PSP, I'm waiting for my Final Fantasy Tactics. :D But yeah, Final Fantasy XIII is going to be awesome. I'm waiting for that, and my Metal Gear.

Hopefully Killzone will come in with a surprise as well, especially since we haven't heard about it for a LONG time. If they match that demonstration from E3, I'll be VERY impressed.

[killmoms]

The PS3 has exactly one game worth buying right now: Resistance. The rest are crap exclusives or ports of games done better already on other systems. At least with the Xbox you have a compelling Live service, media streaming from your computer... the PS3 is only really exciting if you're wanting a Blu-Ray player too, and even at that it's only half-ass.

I feel like the Wii and the PS3 (although the Wii has obviously sold better) have a similar problem: once you get over the couple titles out that are really quite good (Resistance and Zelda/Wii Sports, respectively), there's not a lot left. This is true of ANY new console. It makes much more sense to buy a while later once developers have cranked out some more titles. I just bought an Xbox and it's been an excellent purchase. Between Connect360 on my Mac for streaming my iTunes library and Live Marketplace, there's plenty to do. It's a great way to have some fun with my friends back home on the East Coast.

[Coded-Dude]

Zelda is a killer title, and I can't wait for Mario Galaxies, but those are the only two Wii titles I am REALLY looking forward to this year(thus far).

My PS3 list of hopefuls this year: MGS4, Heavenly Sword, Assasin's Creed, Oblivion, Motorstorm, Virtua Fighter 5, Colin McCrae Dirt, Flow, Warhawk, Army of Two, Ratchet & Clank, Killzone, Eight Days, Untitled Naughty Dog game, Coded-Arms, Battlefield, possibly a MMO, Soulcalibur IV, Stranglehold, Final Fantasy, etc.

I know they are not ALL exclusive, but thats not the point. I'll have a PSWii combo, and own most of these on PS3.
Granted most of these titles will be scarce starting the year off, but i knew that before I made the investment.

I'll spend my leisure time watching Blu-Ray movies, and playing demos/down loadable games like flow until then.....

[darkwing]

Nintendo is doing better than the competition, and better than most had expected.......:cool:

Nintendo has nowhere to go, though. I was going to buy a Wii but now I'm not sure. I'm so spoiled by HD gaming on the PS3 and the next-gen graphics I can't even stand to look at any PS2 games anymore. The Wii calls itself next-gen but is really last gen. As HDTV gets more prevalent what is Nintendo's excuse going to be? Maybe they'll pull a Microsoft re HDMI and say that HDTV "wasn't nascent at the time of development."

Systems have to last for 6 years.

It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. My co-worker in Japan feels the Wii will outsell the PS3 and 360 but doesn't feel it'll be what people really talk about or drool over.

So far the Wii is doing what the Gamecube did when it came out, and we all know how well that worked out for them.

I want SSBB but I'm just not sure I want to be tempted to buy games that use that stupid control system. Maybe if more games would give you an option. I'll have to get TP for my cube I think. :(

[Coded-Dude]

The PS3 has exactly one game worth buying right now: Resistance. The rest are crap exclusives or ports of games done better already on other systems. At least with the Xbox you have a compelling Live service, media streaming from your computer... the PS3 is only really exciting if you're wanting a Blu-Ray player too, and even at that it's only half-ass.

I feel like the Wii and the PS3 (although the Wii has obviously sold better) have a similar problem: once you get over the couple titles out that are really quite good (Resistance and Zelda/Wii Sports, respectively), there's not a lot left. This is true of ANY new console. It makes much more sense to buy a while later once developers have cranked out some more titles. I just bought an Xbox and it's been an excellent purchase. Between Connect360 on my Mac for streaming my iTunes library and Live Marketplace, there's plenty to do. It's a great way to have some fun with my friends back home on the East Coast.

you are blinded by your own bias

Darkwing...thats what I've been saying the whole time. What is Nintendo gonna have to do to keep sales going?
Zelda won't do it, and Mario is a ways out.....Metroid will help, but what other killer apps does Ninty have in store to lure in more gamers.

[darkwing]

you are blinded by your own bias

Well hating Sony is the thing to do. I thought on this forum we were MS haters. :confused:

BTW, I am looking forward to about the same games you are. The PS3 has a great lineup to keep us busy but we have to wait a couple months for it. :( Cept for Final Fantasy. I quit falling for Square's crap after FFX.

[fiercetiger224]

Well hating Sony is the thing to do. I thought on this forum we were MS haters. :confused:

BTW, I am looking forward to about the same games you are. The PS3 has a great lineup to keep us busy but we have to wait a couple months for it. :( Cept for Final Fantasy. I quit falling for Square's crap after FFX.

Haha, I thought we were too. Even though I hate MS, I do like some of their titles. BUT, most of them are going to be on PC anyway, so that's why I've been holding off on buying a 360. Plus, they don't have any other appealing titles that we'll be seeing on the PS3.

[Dagless]

Nintendo has nowhere to go, though. I was going to buy a Wii but now I'm not sure. I'm so spoiled by HD gaming on the PS3 and the next-gen graphics I can't even stand to look at any PS2 games anymore. The Wii calls itself next-gen but is really last gen. As HDTV gets more prevalent what is Nintendo's excuse going to be? Maybe they'll pull a Microsoft re HDMI and say that HDTV "wasn't nascent at the time of development."


You must have missed out on PC and Mac gaming then :) I was playing them more hours in a day than my N64 or PS1, but ya know what - I somehow was able to still play them. Heaven knows why :rolleyes:

As HDTV sales increase then the Wii 2 will have HD. It's as simple as that, maybe when HDTV's actually overtake the number of SDTV sales out there... Do you know what HD means?
-increased price of system for quadrupled RAM and better video card. Plus the CPU speed to fill up those extra pixels with more things going on (a la Dead Rising). A new storage medium to store all those extra textures too.
-increased price of games. I'm not waiting 5 years for huge epic games to come out. I'm happy with the SD standard of 2-3 years (though there are always exceptions). I remember posting a report once from some consortium of publishers or someplace, quoting the price of developing to compete in the HD gaming world.

In the next 5-6 years hopefully costs will be lowered through licensed technology.
The small studio who help publish my work currently can only develop PC games but are buying a Wii development kit later this year. If there only is HD gaming then what happens? Small studios won't be able to get going.

So far the Wii is doing what the Gamecube did when it came out, and we all know how well that worked out for them.
Kinda, the Cube launched with Smash Bros which sold very well. But that was it for a long time. Already the Wii has 2 must have titles (Wii Sports and Zelda, plus Pokemon in Japan), the PS3 has one.
Is it just the same how we all know what happens with consoles than cost more than £300, or that launch long after everyone else?
Is it also how the DS launched with no must have games, still beat the PSP, then came out with absolute killer titles aimed at non-gamers? You think the Wii won't be doing that too?

I want SSBB but I'm just not sure I want to be tempted to buy games that use that stupid control system. Maybe if more games would give you an option. I'll have to get TP for my cube I think. :(

heh. Which is why in Zelda it's so much easier to complete the Sky Temple on the Wii than it is the cube, or is the mouse-speed like aiming not a good thing? It's taken Zelda and made it beautiful to play. Some items are silly (zoom mask) but some are incredible (arrow, hookshot etc). How's that stupid?

Then again Zelda only runs in 480 so I guess you won't be playing it anyways.

Well hating Sony is the thing to do. I thought on this forum we were MS haters. :confused:

as I've always said - people on MR just dislike bad things.
Look at the old topics here. PS2 was supreme. Now it's the other way around.

I like how Sony people can't seem to handle that, despite MS and Nintendo players having to put up with it for years. Suddenly MS has a whopping great share of the HD gaming market and Nintendo is steathily bringing in different markets into the mix.

If a company acts bad, brings out bad products then they entirely get whats coming to them. Rather than taking features out (such as the lie ones) and actually *added* features in like MS (1080p, TV/Movie downloads, soon IPTV). Then it might be different.

Xbox is not Windows. GBA was not the Gamecube. Different parts of the same big company.

[darkwing]

As HDTV sales increase then the Wii 2 will have HD. It's as simple as that, maybe when HDTV's actually overtake the number of SDTV sales out there... Do you know what HD means?
-increased price of system for quadrupled RAM and better video card. Plus the CPU speed to fill up those extra pixels with more things going on (a la Dead Rising). A new storage medium to store all those extra textures too.
-increased price of games. I'm not waiting 5 years for huge epic games to come out. I'm happy with the SD standard of 2-3 years (though there are always exceptions). I remember posting a report once from some consortium of publishers or someplace, quoting the price of developing to compete in the HD gaming world.

Why is the thought of a Wii 2 ok, but MS releasing the rumored (not true apparently) revision 2 is a bad thing?

In the next 5-6 years hopefully costs will be lowered through licensed technology.
The small studio who help publish my work currently can only develop PC games but are buying a Wii development kit later this year. If there only is HD gaming then what happens? Small studios won't be able to get going.

Well, you'd think the licensed technology you speak of would ease development of HD games. Sony has used a lot of open and licensed technologies on the PS3, as has MS. I don't see why small studios can't use those technologies in the SDKs, but you're the game maker not me. Want to explain it?

Kinda, the Cube launched with Smash Bros which sold very well. But that was it for a long time. Already the Wii has 2 must have titles (Wii Sports and Zelda, plus Pokemon in Japan), the PS3 has one.
Is it just the same how we all know what happens with consoles than cost more than £300, or that launch long after everyone else?
Is it also how the DS launched with no must have games, still beat the PSP, then came out with absolute killer titles aimed at non-gamers? You think the Wii won't be doing that too?

I bought a DS first and skipped the PSP because the PSP had no good games on it when I looked at the two and costed more. I don't care about watching movies on my hand-held device. The main reason I bought a DS was for the Lunar game coming out on it, but that turned out to suck horribly and I didn't play it more than an hour. I wanted the "next gen" hand-held gaming experience and went with the DS based on price point. Well, I got last-gen graphics and still no good games. I've only highly enjoyed two games on the DS. MK and NSMB. Each lasted me a few hours until I beat them, and then what? MK is fun with friends, but that's about it.

Oh, I did actually play Final Fantasy 3 DS but haven't finished it. Once the novelty of the new graphics wore off it was boring because I already played it on emu.

Nintendo's got a good strategy which is cheap hardware to capture the casual game player. I mean, if you don't care about best-of-the-best then you're going to want to get the cheaper item. The PSP finally has enough games that it was worth getting this year and I'm having a ton of fun with it. Lots of good RPGs to play.

heh. Which is why in Zelda it's so much easier to complete the Sky Temple on the Wii than it is the cube, or is the mouse-speed like aiming not a good thing? It's taken Zelda and made it beautiful to play. Some items are silly (zoom mask) but some are incredible (arrow, hookshot etc). How's that stupid?

Then again Zelda only runs in 480 so I guess you won't be playing it anyways.

I played Zelda in the store and hated it. Maybe the controller was broken. It was jerky and unresponsive. Just like the time I saw some kid playing it. I found it hesitating and me having to "force" it, which would cause the aim to go way to one extreme very fast. :confused:

I hate to ask what a zoom mask is. :rolleyes:

As for your comment about expensive consoles failing, well, this is true. However, this is a different time than it was in the days of the Jaguar and Neo-Geo and other things. For one, many people are using their big credit cards to buy big home theatre systems. Also, Sony has market-share already with tremendous success of the PS1 and PS2. They're hoping to build on this.

I feel that Sony's made a lot of bad decisions with the PS3 and poor business choices. However, I think the hardware design of the PS3 is sound and it will pay off in a year or two. We'll just have to wait and see. I will probably still buy a Wii, and I'll probably enjoy it as much as I do my gamecube (because the graphics look the same anyway) but what really has me excited right now is actually seeing the hardware I spent good money on to entertain myself on cold snowy days show me some darn pretty games.

I won't get that with anything Nintendo, sadly.

[Dagless]

Why is the thought of a Wii 2 ok, but MS releasing the rumored (not true apparently) revision 2 is a bad thing?

Wii2? I never said a 1.5 or update. I'm talking the next Nintendo system released in 5 or whatever years.


Well, you'd think the licensed technology you speak of would ease development of HD games. Sony has used a lot of open and licensed technologies on the PS3, as has MS. I don't see why small studios can't use those technologies in the SDKs, but you're the game maker not me. Want to explain it?

Simple, from my studio...
PS3 dev kit - can't afford. at all
Xbox 360 dev kit - could afford if 2007 brings in some more profits.
Wii dev kit - could buy maybe 4, 5.



Nintendo's got a good strategy which is cheap hardware to capture the casual game player. I mean, if you don't care about best-of-the-best then you're going to want to get the cheaper item. The PSP finally has enough games that it was worth getting this year and I'm having a ton of fun with it. Lots of good RPGs to play.

I care about the best of the best. I buy Apple music players, have rare/expensive hifi equipment bla bla. But I still went for the cheaper item - price aside both DS and Wii are offering me games that could never be played on another system. They can both get downgraded ports from other systems though, so the scope is there.


I played Zelda in the store and hated it. Maybe the controller was broken. It was jerky and unresponsive. Just like the time I saw some kid playing it. I found it hesitating and me having to "force" it, which would cause the aim to go way to one extreme very fast. :confused:

That's broke. I'm playing Zelda and I have no lag, no jerk. It's like using a proper mouse. If something is broke then you return it and demand for a working one, simple as that (look up Sony versus Nintendo deal pixel policies).

As for your comment about expensive consoles failing, well, this is true. However, this is a different time than it was in the days of the Jaguar and Neo-Geo and other things. For one, many people are using their big credit cards to buy big home theatre systems. Also, Sony has market-share already with tremendous success of the PS1 and PS2. They're hoping to build on this.
Did you say PSX? :D That wasn't released too long ago and nobody cared for that. Because people have money it means they're going to buy whatever, regardless purely because they have home cinemas? That's certainly not what I'm doing, or any of the people I know. They already have their 360s with HD-DVD drives. Their setups are already complete.

[macidiot]

I think everyone is in a bit of confusion here. Sony has already shipped OVER 24 million PSPs in less than two years. Software sales for 2006 ended up being 21.2 million, which is not including software sales for 2005.

Did anyone read the original post? PSP saw an increase of 24% over the previous year, hitting 21.2 million game titles. Do I need to repost the link for the actual shipments for the PSP again? :rolleyes: Coded-Dude knows what he's talkin' about.

As for GFLPraxis's post, he didn't know where Coded-Dude got shipment numbers for the 24 million PSPs. I provided the link later in this thread. GFLPraxis didn't include the software shipments for 2005, where he came to the conclusion that only 10 million PSP owner (not all 24 million) actually has 2 games. If he had added up the software shipments for 2005 and 2006, then EVERY PSP owner has at least 1 or 2 games. Hope this clears things up for everyone.

Just for comparison... Nintendo expects to sell 100 million game titles for the DS by March 2007.

Well hating Sony is the thing to do. I thought on this forum we were MS haters. :confused:

BTW, I am looking forward to about the same games you are. The PS3 has a great lineup to keep us busy but we have to wait a couple months for it. :( Cept for Final Fantasy. I quit falling for Square's crap after FFX.

well, I gotta say that FFxii is pretty amazing. Then again, it's the first ff game I've played. The battle system is great, semi-realtime. Kind of like KOTOR.

[MacNut]

The problem is that nobody wants to pay $600 for a PS3 that has no games and only selling point is a Blue Ray drive that is failing in the market place. I was one of those people who said I would never get a 360 but after looking at the games and the price I am really considering it now. I don't care if MS makes it but if the games are better and the game play is better thats the system I will buy.

[macidiot]

Nintendo has nowhere to go, though. I was going to buy a Wii but now I'm not sure. I'm so spoiled by HD gaming on the PS3 and the next-gen graphics I can't even stand to look at any PS2 games anymore. The Wii calls itself next-gen but is really last gen. As HDTV gets more prevalent what is Nintendo's excuse going to be? Maybe they'll pull a Microsoft re HDMI and say that HDTV "wasn't nascent at the time of development."

Systems have to last for 6 years.

It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out. My co-worker in Japan feels the Wii will outsell the PS3 and 360 but doesn't feel it'll be what people really talk about or drool over.

So far the Wii is doing what the Gamecube did when it came out, and we all know how well that worked out for them.

I want SSBB but I'm just not sure I want to be tempted to buy games that use that stupid control system. Maybe if more games would give you an option. I'll have to get TP for my cube I think. :(

You do realize that the majority of HDTVs out there are NOT 1080p? Most sets are 720 or 768. The only 1080p sets are LCDs (typically 40" or bigger), some DLP (56" or bigger), some LcOS (60" or bigger), and exactly one plasma (costs 9k).

What does that mean? Anyone who recently bought a new tv (which is the majority of HDTV owners) will probably not be upgrading anytime soon. Replacing a 2k+ tv after one year is not something most people do. Which means that the actual installed base of 1080p sets won't be all that big for at least 3-4 years. Using your 6 year life cycle, that means the Wii will be 4-5 years old at that time.

btw, I have 2 HDTVs, one 720p and one 768p. I'll probably replace the 720p soon (it's 4 years old) with a 1080p set. But the 768p is brand new. I went with that resolution for 2 reasons: one, it's a 32" and I'm sitting 5 ft away (you can't see the difference between 720 and 1080 at that size unless your about 2.5 ft away from the picture) and two, they don't make a 32" that's 1080p (because of the above reason).

Oh, and just so you know, the Gamecube basically sold the same number of units as the xbox.

But I am with you in that I'm all for 1080p content. I do wish that the Wii had higher rez. But considering the price point, it's a decent trade off. Ultimately, it's all about how fun the games are. Graphics are secondary to gameplay.

[MacNut]

You do realize that the majority of HDTVs out there are NOT 1080p? Most sets are 720 or 768. The only 1080p sets are LCDs (typically 40" or bigger), some DLP (56" or bigger), some LcOS (60" or bigger), and exactly one plasma (costs 9k).What is 768? Is that anywhere near 1080i?

[macidiot]

What is 768? Is that anywhere near 1080i?

The resolution is 768p. 1366x768.

720p is 1280x720.

1080 is 1920x1080.

768p and 720p are essentially the same. LCD and plasma sets are 768 just because of the way they make the sets and how the pixels end up.

The i, as in 1080i means it's interlaced. If it has a p, it means progressive scan. Progressive scan effectively doubles the resolution (it has double the horizontal lines vs. interlaced).

However, interlaced and progressive is dated. It comes from old CRT sets. CRTs don't have actual pixels. CRTs do horizontal scan lines. If you get up close to a crt, you can see the lines, with space in between them.

Basically, every set that isn't CRT is progressive scan. If there is a 1080i signal, it converts it to progressive scan. Which basically makes 1080i a really stupid standard.

[darkwing]

Wii2? I never said a 1.5 or update. I'm talking the next Nintendo system released in 5 or whatever years.

My apologies. I thought you meant in a couple years.

So Nintendo needs 5 more years to handle HD? :rolleyes:

Simple, from my studio...
PS3 dev kit - can't afford. at all
Xbox 360 dev kit - could afford if 2007 brings in some more profits.
Wii dev kit - could buy maybe 4, 5.

I care about the best of the best. I buy Apple music players, have rare/expensive hifi equipment bla bla. But I still went for the cheaper item - price aside both DS and Wii are offering me games that could never be played on another system. They can both get downgraded ports from other systems though, so the scope is there.

Thanks for your explanation. I never knew dev kits could be so expensive. If the stories were really true about Sony shipping out 10,000 dev kits then wow... amazing. Who needs to sell the ps3? Just make money on those. :P

So those games can't be played on another platform how exactly? While I agree the DS having a touch screen is cool, I still care zero about motion control. And the ps3 has it, so how can it not play a game the Wii can play? Oh, because the Wii can point? Then release an add-on.

Nintendo's big move was trying to standardize around the whole motion thing. Since it isn't an add-on, every game will support it. Add-ons never work. But it *can* be done.

That's broke. I'm playing Zelda and I have no lag, no jerk. It's like using a proper mouse. If something is broke then you return it and demand for a working one, simple as that (look up Sony versus Nintendo deal pixel policies).

I look forward to playing it when it isn't broken then.

Did you say PSX? :D That wasn't released too long ago and nobody cared for that. Because people have money it means they're going to buy whatever, regardless purely because they have home cinemas? That's certainly not what I'm doing, or any of the people I know. They already have their 360s with HD-DVD drives. Their setups are already complete.

Yes but I still have doubts as to how well the 360 can do 1080p games. I'd like to see it run a game at 1080p and maintain 60 fps.

You do realize that the majority of HDTVs out there are NOT 1080p? Most sets are 720 or 768. The only 1080p sets are LCDs (typically 40" or bigger), some DLP (56" or bigger), some LcOS (60" or bigger), and exactly one plasma (costs 9k).

I can get that plasma you're talking about for $6500 shipped because I write software for the company that makes it. ;)

1080p is being pushed everywhere as a selling point despite the current lack of content. People have them, and will continue to. BTW Sony makes an LCOS that's 1080p in a 50". Their bottom end SXRD model.

Gameplay is better than graphics. Absolutely! However, you get the same gameplay on all three next-gen systems (or only on the PS3/Wii if you care about motion, or just the Wii if you care about pointing) so really graphics are what it'll boil down to.

People try and say crap like Nintendo is somehow innovative. What platform has seen the truly innovative games the last few years?

Loco Roco
Katamari Damashi
DDR
Guitar Hero

Those are just some examples of innovative things I've seen on Sony platforms. What does Nintendo have? Oh my, Mario has a new mushroom that makes him huge! Real innovative.

Nintendo's last big innovation was Pokemon, and that wasn't a gameplay innovation but a marketing one. (gotta buy em all!)

Do I hate Nintendo? No. I was planning to buy a Wii and now am debating it, but most likely will. (I like new toys.) I have a DS, DS Lite, and a GC. I still have my SNES. (I still feel the SNES was the golden age of home gaming.)

What I do hate are poor people who can't afford real systems like the PS3 and the 360 who say that the Wii is so much better because it's somehow more "innovative" when really it's just last gen graphics with 70s motion sensing technology. This is how they justify to themselves that they are ok being unable to afford a real setup.

It's going to be great to see what happens. We've all drawn our lines and are going to play I-told-you-so later on down the road. I am rooting for Nintendo and Sony over Microsoft which is why I buy their products.

[MacRumorUser]

Yes but I still have doubts as to how well the 360 can do 1080p games. I'd like to see it run a game at 1080p and maintain 60 fps.

In fairness I'd like to see how many PS3 titles will acomplish this too.

Most current ones that do 1080p are fairly simplistic graphically (RR7 etc.)

Most more detailed PS3 titles top out at 720p - which is fine by me as long as they look sweet :)

[zelmo]

So Nintendo needs 5 more years to handle HD? :rolleyes:

C'mon. :rolleyes: Nintendo is taking the fairly practical stance that since the market penetration of HD is not likely to be really significant, or at least not ahead of SD, for several more years, why inflate the price of their gaming experience to be on the bleeding edge?
Some might see it as running away from the 360/PS3 dogfight over who's dick is bigger, but it's also a decent move on their part.

I love games so I can't stay out of this forum, but it really gets aggravating when everyone seems bent on bashing someone else's system.

I like games. I have a 360, PS3, Wii, DS, and PSP. Can't we all just get along?:p

[e²Studios]

...only selling point is a Blue Ray drive that is failing in the market place...

Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD in software and hardware, and has been since December. Blu-Ray also has more studio support based on their stronger methods of security. HD-DVD has lost all of their major studio exclusive support, their encryption methods was hacked, and they are losing more and more market each day. Japan is at 99% Blu-Ray adoption already, NA will be close behind by the years end.

No studio support, lack of security to protect studio IP, slowing sales, HD DVD is the one that is failing.

[darkwing]

In fairness I'd like to see how many PS3 titles will acomplish this too.

Most current ones that do 1080p are fairly simplistic graphically (RR7 etc.)

Most more detailed PS3 titles top out at 720p - which is fine by me as long as they look sweet :)

From what I've read of the PS3's hardware, it's no problem at all to do this. I have only two 1080p games. One is RR7 which does it very nicely, and RR7 isn't that graphically simplistic. It has a lot of detail but what I like are all the details put in to the graphics around the track. Like the boats and things. (That stupid site that tried to say RR6 was better on the 360 by showing some boat missing from the PS3 screen didn't point out the newer nicer boat on the same screen just in a different location. :rolleyes: ) RR7 does have the flat fan video fans though.

Full Auto 2 is a fun game, but it has a horrible frame rate. I'm pretty sure they didn't put any effort at all into the graphics code for that one.

The GTHD demo is 1080p and very beautiful and always smooth. Excellent job.

But yes, many games are only 720p (even Sony published games like Motorstorm and Untold Legends) which leads me to wonder if any of the following are true:

1) The PS3 can't handle 1080p as well as its made out to be able to.
2) The extra detail that goes into 1080p costs too much time/money to invest in a launch title.
3) #2 not being worth it for the perceived number of 1080p tee-vees on the market.

[zelmo]

Blu-Ray is outselling HD-DVD in software and hardware, and has been since December. Blu-Ray also has more studio support based on their stronger methods of security. HD-DVD has lost all of their major studio exclusive support, their encryption methods was hacked, and they are losing more and more market each day. Japan is at 99% Blu-Ray adoption already, NA will be close behind by the years end.

No studio support, lack of security to protect studio IP, slowing sales, HD DVD is the one that is failing.

Do you have a source for this data? I'm really surprised that either of the HD formats has anywhere near 99% adoption, even in a tech-forward country like Japan. Seems like DVD should still have the vast majority of the market.

[darkwing]

Do you have a source for this data? I'm really surprised that either of the HD formats has anywhere near 99% adoption, even in a tech-forward country like Japan. Seems like DVD should still have the vast majority of the market.

I think he meant 99% adoption out of the next-gen format war. I am not sure of this. I talked to a couple co-workers when I was in Japan and they didn't know which format was doing better in Japan. But they're into games and not movies, so that might explain why.

[zap2]

What I do hate are poor people who can't afford real systems like the PS3 and the 360 who say that the Wii is so much better because it's somehow more "innovative" when really it's just last gen graphics with 70s motion sensing technology. This is how they justify to themselves that they are ok being unable to afford a real setup.



I think most people who buy a Wii, could buy a PS3 inplace of it. Its a 2x the price(in the US), which is a good amount, but if you going to spend 250 on a system, 500 would be do able(as in you would save up and get one.

Calling a Wii an "unreal" set up is just stupid...simply put. I'm having more fun play my Wii then any system EVER. I'll pay what ever a company ask if the system is going to be fun. I might not like it, but I'd do it because in the end I'm looking for a good time, and its less about how much it cost for me.


I only currently have a Wii(and DS) I'll pick up a 360 on day(Halo 3 most likely) but I can't ever see myself buy a PS3, not because of the price, but because there is not enough game I want on it.


Did you ever think thats why people who have a Wii don't want a Ps3/xBox? Not because of the price but because of the games?

[zelmo]

I think he meant 99% adoption out of the next-gen format war. I am not sure of this. I talked to a couple co-workers when I was in Japan and they didn't know which format was doing better in Japan. But they're into games and not movies, so that might explain why.

I was thinking that was possibly what he really meant. Even so, it's hard to fathom that either format can have that big an advantage already.

[Coded-Dude]

Despite its launch troubles with PS3, Sony says it’s “feeling good” about the progress of Blu-ray.
Image The long-term success of PS3 rests largely on take-up of Blu-ray as the next generation DVD platform. PlayStation 3 comes with a Blu-ray drive, which offers comparative value against specific players currently on the market. Blu-ray is up against HD-DVD for dominance of this emerging market.

In an earnings conference call yesterday Rob Wiesenthal, chief financial officer of Sony's U.S. operations said "We are feeling really good about Blu-ray right now, but it is early days."

He added, "In Japan, about 96% of the hardware being sold for high-definition format are coming from the Blu-ray family. It's a format with over 100 different CE manufacturers. Obviously we have the launch coming up in Europe for PS3. So we are feeling very good about that.”

Sony points out that the top five films of last year - as well as the top 11 of 15 - were all released exclusively on Blu-ray.
source (http://www.gametab.com/news/801594/)

[MacRumorUser]

1) The PS3 can't handle 1080p as well as its made out to be able to.
2) The extra detail that goes into 1080p costs too much time/money to invest in a launch title.
3) #2 not being worth it for the perceived number of 1080p tee-vees on the market.


RR7 has a fairly low amount of geometry polygons compared to a lot of games, it also isnt pushing as many particle effects either.

I dont think the PS3 can handle a complicated 1080p game any better than the 360 tbh. After all spec for spec, gpu for gpu they are the roughly the same.

It's going to be games like Virtua Tennis where most of the detail is static, your only really rendering 1 stadium etc, where we will see some 1080p games, but to be honest a 720p game with decent 4x AA would probably look as good.

It's just probably not worth developers time. Also as 90% of games are multiformat, its easier just to share assets, so they'll generally all end up 720p I imagine.


Next (next gen) is where 1080p will truly be it...

After all 720p & 1080i games were on the xbox, but its only with this new generation of machines (360/PS3) that it has become the standard res.

1080p is lke 720p * 1080i on the Xbox. It will happen for a few games, but certainly not a huge amount by any means.

I think for this generation it's basically a moot arguing point, that's not really worth arguing over. Developers certainly are not bothered by it anyway. :)

[Dagless]

I look forward to playing it when it isn't broken then.

I feel let down, I actually thought you were smarter than that. My whole point was that Zelda/Wii isn't broken, the individual system was.

My Wii only faulted once, the controller would jump about if pointing in the bottom right corner. Only when I was finishing my game did I realise the sensor bar was on the floor, pointing down. Though I could still play without any lag.

[zelmo]

source (http://www.gametab.com/news/801594/)

Nice find, but isn't that really just a Sony exec making a statement that is conveniently unsupported by actual evidence? If we took all exec's statements as facts we'd be believing everything Gates is saying about Vista.;)

[darkwing]

Did you ever think thats why people who have a Wii don't want a Ps3/xBox? Not because of the price but because of the games?

Considering how poorly the GC did and so far the Wii is just offering newer versions of the same old stuff, then I guess the Wii won't do well at all then by your logic.

I feel let down, I actually thought you were smarter than that. My whole point was that Zelda/Wii isn't broken, the individual system was.

Sorry I didn't word myself properly. I meant that I look forward to playing it on a system that isn't broken.

RR7 has a fairly low amount of geometry polygons compared to a lot of games, it also isnt pushing as many particle effects either.

I dont think the PS3 can handle a complicated 1080p game any better than the 360 tbh. After all spec for spec, gpu for gpu they are the roughly the same.

The 360 has too many bottlenecks to adequately handle it for complicated games, imho. The UMA and the small edram will make it hard to do a CPU intensive game well in 1080p with the GPU needing so much memory bandwidth. Besides, even with that DRAM (which is nice to do work like AA in for sure) you still need to constantly access main memory for texture data and things like that, and since those textures aren't just drawn into the eDram they still need plenty of memory access by the GPU before you even do any eDram-only work. All this equals a lot of stalled CPU cycles waiting for the parasitic GPU to finish its work!

Nice find, but isn't that really just a Sony exec making a statement that is conveniently unsupported by actual evidence? If we took all exec's statements as facts we'd be believing everything Gates is saying about Vista.;)

Or Jobs telling us for years that Motorola was the better CPU than Intel before switching us? I guess all companies have an RDF. :)

[GFLPraxis]

Um.......PSP will be 2 years old in March(NA), meaning they have basically shipped 24 million in two years.
Is that confusing somehow? I don't understand your statement.
I didn't say or imply shipped/sold, I merely said 24million.

The original article did not say anything about how many PSP's sony had shipped, just how much software, which is why I said that.



Considering most of the DS fans have already written the PSP off, it is doing astonishingly well.
Even without a price drop!

If Sony has indeed sold 24 million PSPs, but are only selling 21 million games per year, then PSP owners clearly aren't buying games. Astonishingly well isn't the word I'd use. Japan's numbers are downright terrible; the other week the first PSP in the top 50 games was a MGS game in #17!


The announcement was rather expected and not all that surprising, but it does show Sony is still doing very well in the gaming market.
(meeting their goals or coming close)

I'm not seeing it. This annoucement merely showed pitiful PSP software sales and even worse PS3 production. The only good thing in there was spectacular PS2 sales.

[MacRumorUser]

The 360 has too many bottlenecks to adequately handle it for complicated games, imho.

It has no problems upscaling a game to 1080p, the cpu/gpu is still having to churn out all the same stuff and then upscale to the resolution meaning more work and yet it handles it without a problem.

So why should a game like RR be ap

I think you over estimate. :)

[Coded-Dude]

then go do the research and figure it out.......he is not exaggerating these numbers jsut to look good.
This is how things are really happening in Japan.

[GFLPraxis]

I think everyone is in a bit of confusion here. Sony has already shipped OVER 24 million PSPs in less than two years. Software sales for 2006 ended up being 21.2 million, which is not including software sales for 2005.

Did anyone read the original post? PSP saw an increase of 24% over the previous year, hitting 21.2 million game titles. Do I need to repost the link for the actual shipments for the PSP again? :rolleyes: Coded-Dude knows what he's talkin' about.

As for GFLPraxis's post, he didn't know where Coded-Dude got shipment numbers for the 24 million PSPs. I provided the link later in this thread. GFLPraxis didn't include the software shipments for 2005, where he came to the conclusion that only 10 million PSP owner (not all 24 million) actually has 2 games. If he had added up the software shipments for 2005 and 2006, then EVERY PSP owner has at least 1 or 2 games. Hope this clears things up for everyone.

Makes sense, except for the last bit; I meant that every PSP owner *bought* less than two games in 2006, not that they had less than two.

[Coded-Dude]

I own about dozen games, and have traded in several(one I beat already) to acquire the dozen or so I currently have.

[GFLPraxis]

then go do the research and figure it out.......he is not exaggerating these numbers jsut to look good.
This is how things are really happening in Japan.

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7405

I track sales numbers in Japan, always have.

Notice that the top selling PSP game is #16 on the chart.

PSP's software sales are abysmal. Hardware sales are decent...it sells better than the GameCube did, and has outsold the GameCube already (24 million vs the Cube's 22 million)...but the software, where Sony makes the money, is not selling.

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7430

I own about dozen games, and have traded in several(one I beat already) to acquire the dozen or so I currently have.

I know, I'm talking about averages :) If there are 24 million PSP's, and 21 million games were sold in 2006, then on average every PSP owner bought less than two games in 2006.

[zap2]

Considering how poorly the GC did and so far the Wii is just offering newer versions of the same old stuff, then I guess the Wii won't do well at all then by your logic.


Judging by sales of the Wii...your completly wrong!

And the data I'm talking about is really about the Wii, yours is about a system before the Wii.

If every system followed the same path as the system before it then Nintendo would have won all the past generations.

[Coded-Dude]

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7405

I track sales numbers in Japan, always have.

Notice that the top selling PSP game is #16 on the chart.

PSP's software sales are abysmal. Hardware sales are decent...it sells better than the GameCube did, and has outsold the GameCube already (24 million vs the Cube's 22 million)...but the software, where Sony makes the money, is not selling.

http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=7430


That statement was in regards to Blu-Ray sales(or rather domination) in Japan.
NOT psp software.

[darkwing]

Judging by sales of the Wii...your completly wrong!

And the data I'm talking about is really about the Wii, yours is about a system before the Wii.

If every system followed the same path as the system before it then Nintendo would have won all the past generations.

"you're"

My only point was the original poster said maybe some people buy systems for the games and not the hardware. Since people were tired of the same old childish Nintendo games for the GC, then that should hold true now.

The GC sold a few million up front as has the Wii, and then it stagnated. I'm not sure yet what will happen to the Wii.

It has no problems upscaling a game to 1080p, the cpu/gpu is still having to churn out all the same stuff and then upscale to the resolution meaning more work and yet it handles it without a problem.

So why should a game like RR be ap

I think you over estimate. :)

Upscaling is easy and is also a constant time algorithm. I.e., converting a 720p image to 1080p doesn't require any additional effort as the game gets more complex. As long as there is room in the hardware capabilities for that constant time operation, then the 360 can do that just fine. Let's see how well it does with a real complicated game at native 1080p, though.

[zap2]

"you're"

My only point was the original poster said maybe some people buy systems for the games and not the hardware. Since people were tired of the same old childish Nintendo games for the GC, then that should hold true now.

The GC sold a few million up front as has the Wii, and then it stagnated. I'm not sure yet what will happen to the Wii.

I didn't know Wii Sport came out for the GameCube..maybe I should have bought that.

I think people THIS generation proved they aren't tired of Zelda...and are ready for a new controller, and new games( Red Steel, Excite Trucks, Elebits ,Trauma Center)

The Wii is like a DS for the home...*looks a DS sales* yup Nintendo did it right!

[zelmo]

then go do the research and figure it out.......he is not exaggerating these numbers jsut to look good.
This is how things are really happening in Japan.

I'm not sure I'm invested enough in Japan's HD format war to spend time on actual research:p . If you say it is actually happening, I'll take that at face value.
Amazes the crap outta me, though.

[darkwing]

I didn't know Wii Sport came out for the GameCube..maybe I should have bought that.

I think people THIS generation proved they aren't tired of Zelda...and are ready for a new controller, and new games( Red Steel, Excite Trucks, Elebits ,Trauma Center)

The Wii is like a DS for the home...*looks a DS sales* yup Nintendo did it right!

The DS did a good job making ipod status in Japan. I think both products are highly over-rated and near-useless, but I also own both. I bought the DS and find I never use it anymore because it's so disappointing. I think I play my GC more than that. I finally used my ipod for something more than I could use a walkman for when I used it for videos on a plane trip to Japan. Cool stuff. If I didn't have the ipod I would have done that on the PSP though. meh

[Haoshiro]

The DS did a good job making ipod status in Japan. I think both products are highly over-rated and near-useless, but I also own both. I bought the DS and find I never use it anymore because it's so disappointing. I think I play my GC more than that. I finally used my ipod for something more than I could use a walkman for when I used it for videos on a plane trip to Japan. Cool stuff. If I didn't have the ipod I would have done that on the PSP though. meh

Well you might pick up FF3 and maybe DQ9 when it comes out.

There are plenty of good none-SquareEnix DS/GBA JRPGs out there too...

[zap2]

The DS did a good job making ipod status in Japan. I think both products are highly over-rated and near-useless, but I also own both. I bought the DS and find I never use it anymore because it's so disappointing. I think I play my GC more than that. I finally used my ipod for something more than I could use a walkman for when I used it for videos on a plane trip to Japan. Cool stuff. If I didn't have the ipod I would have done that on the PSP though. meh

Wow...I take my DS and iPod with me all the time...the DS not as much(as I can't do other stuff when I play it) but honestly I have my iPod with me almost everytime I leave my house.

[darkwing]

Wow...I take my DS and iPod with me all the time...the DS not as much(as I can't do other stuff when I play it) but honestly I have my iPod with me almost everytime I leave my house.

I'm mad at my ipod right now. I use it in the car, hooked up to my radio.. but the ipod is so stupid that if connected to the radio it won't shut off, so it drains the battery sitting in the car. I am not sure if this is Apple's fault or the IPOD's fault, but I don't always listen to it (need news and other things on the radio) and hate the fact I have to unplug it each time.

Well you might pick up FF3 and maybe DQ9 when it comes out.

There are plenty of good none-SquareEnix DS/GBA JRPGs out there too...

I will get DQ9 when it comes out as I love the DQ series. (enix side of square-enix so it's ok) As for DS rpgs the only ones I've had fun with are magical starsign (and that isn't very good) and ff3 ds, which I got halfway through then got bored. There's not much of a story with it, and mognet is stupid as is requiring me to use it in order to unlock things.

[Haoshiro]

I'm mad at my ipod right now. I use it in the car, hooked up to my radio.. but the ipod is so stupid that if connected to the radio it won't shut off, so it drains the battery sitting in the car. I am not sure if this is Apple's fault or the IPOD's fault, but I don't always listen to it (need news and other things on the radio) and hate the fact I have to unplug it each time.

It's your radio transimitters fault. It's continuously transmitting which is preventing the ipod from sleeping.

Perhaps there are other transmitters designed for the ipod that don't do this... the one I use isn't designed for ipod at all... so I wouldn't be much help there!

Now if you had a car stereo that specifically supported ipod I doubt it would be a problem... but those are expensive.

[macidiot]

I'm mad at my ipod right now. I use it in the car, hooked up to my radio.. but the ipod is so stupid that if connected to the radio it won't shut off, so it drains the battery sitting in the car. I am not sure if this is Apple's fault or the IPOD's fault, but I don't always listen to it (need news and other things on the radio) and hate the fact I have to unplug it each time.

I have my iPod hooked up to my car. In fact, it's the only worthwhile reason for me to have one. And neither the ipod or car drain when the car is off. I turn the car off, the ipod turns off. I turn the car on, the iPod turns on (and the battery charges). Then again, I don't use a kludgey headphone jack connection. I use a direct connection via the dock connector. The only time I ever unplug my iPod is to add some songs.

[Dagless]

I didn't know Wii Sport came out for the GameCube..maybe I should have bought that.

I think people THIS generation proved they aren't tired of Zelda...and are ready for a new controller, and new games( Red Steel, Excite Trucks, Elebits ,Trauma Center)

The Wii is like a DS for the home...*looks a DS sales* yup Nintendo did it right!

Of course they've got it right. As I keep saying, which folk are so blinded to see - Nintendo is opening up their already existing market.

Xbox and Cube sold equally. If Nintendo opens up to non-gamers, bam. You've hit an absolutely huge market.

360 continues the trend absolutely. It has games that the Xbox had, similar controller etc. It's an improvement.
Wii takes what the Cube had and runs miles into the other direction too.
PS3 cuts its market down because of the price. The UK press love joking about it, there are many critics for the machine here. Adverts are all wrong, system is priced way too much etc.

Or is this some kind of magic world where the 360 is really an Xbox, A Wii is the Cube/N64 and the PS3 is the PS2/1? Where the same markets apply?

To reply to something Darkwing said about the Cube having this kind of launch. really? I went into WHSmith and bought my Cube on day #2. No queue. No system has had this much of a launch here before. Everyone is going wild for the thing.
I show a course mate a video of what I was to be getting for xmas. Few minutes later she's ringing her boyfriend telling him to pick up 3 (1 for her, 1 for him, 1 for her brother). Neither 3 played video games previously. As I said - this didn't happen with PSP, Cube, DS fat, 360. Just DS Lite and Wii.

[darkwing]

I have my iPod hooked up to my car. In fact, it's the only worthwhile reason for me to have one. And neither the ipod or car drain when the car is off. I turn the car off, the ipod turns off. I turn the car on, the iPod turns on (and the battery charges). Then again, I don't use a kludgey headphone jack connection. I use a direct connection via the dock connector. The only time I ever unplug my iPod is to add some songs.

Yes I use the dock connector, too... and the stupid thing won't shut off. It stays on. I don't know if it's the radio doing it or what. It's annoying as heck.

And jimmi, when I said "this kind of launch" I meant they sold several million consoles quickly and then they stagnated.

[macidiot]

Yes I use the dock connector, too... and the stupid thing won't shut off. It stays on. I don't know if it's the radio doing it or what. It's annoying as heck.

And jimmi, when I said "this kind of launch" I meant they sold several million consoles quickly and then they stagnated.


What connection kit are you using?

Couple of ideas... one you may have to manually turn off your radio. Some cars have stereos that always receive some power. For example, I can turn my stereo on whenever, no key needed. Otherwise, try resetting the iPod. Or checking for a firmware update for the connection kit.

[ddrueckhammer]

Yes I use the dock connector, too... and the stupid thing won't shut off. It stays on. I don't know if it's the radio doing it or what. It's annoying as heck.

And jimmi, when I said "this kind of launch" I meant they sold several million consoles quickly and then they stagnated.

I have the Denison Icelink and it works fine although I disabled the stupid interface that lets you control it with the stereo controls. I just control it using the buttons on the iPod. I hadn't noticed whether the iPod shuts off or not because I take the iPod with me when I leave the car but I do know that mine charges in the cradle. All in all, it is a pretty good solution although there are cheaper ones now but I hope that we have 802.11 or bluetooth connections for our cars in the next year or two because the cradle clutters up my dash. How cool would it be to just synch your iPod (or better autosynch with Bonjour) your iPod with the stereo of whatever car you happen to be in? In other words, I get in my friends car and can play all of my music through his stereo with minimal setup. I always have thought that this would be the best use of wireless technology in an iPod not stupid wireless headphones or wireless synching with your computer.

[gloss]

Yes I use the dock connector, too... and the stupid thing won't shut off. It stays on. I don't know if it's the radio doing it or what. It's annoying as heck.

And jimmi, when I said "this kind of launch" I meant they sold several million consoles quickly and then they stagnated.

This happens to me only once in while, which is weirder than having it happen never or always. Alpine head unit, and the majority of the time it works just fine, but occasionally I'll come out to my car in the morning and it's gone kaput.

Odd.

[darkwing]

To those who replied to my ipod issue:

I have an Eclipse AVN-6600 with their optional ipod control unit. It's a custom mount job in a late model GTO. Nice system, but the 6610 is out now with a 7" screen. It might not fit in my car though.. this one almost didn't. (it's an angular slot which is stupid. Darn aussies!)

The radio has a PWR button but that only turns audio on/off. The navi always runs. I can try turning off the audio before I turn off the car and see if that helps.