970 Machines Assembled/Sealed?

[MacRumors]

MacBidouille claims (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-05-27#5645) that the first 970 PowerPC mnachines are assembled, stacked and ready to be shipped to resellers. According to the article, the boxes are also sealed with a tamper proof seal with warnings not to open before June 23rd.

There have been conflicting rumors regarding the availability of 970 machines. This rumor would indicate immediate availability at/after WWDC's Keynote.

[Talon1138]

Perfect timing...I hope these are readily available so I can get one for college.

[gaomay]

please.....

[Kamu-San]

That would be amazing...

[MacMarino]

I know i for one cant wait! Id love to give these machines a real run for there money and see what they can really do!?! I wonder if the date also reflects when we will see Panther available???

Macmarino

[jccbin]

My Credit Card be empty and waiting to order!

[Mr. Anderson]

Well if this is true and MacBidouille's specs on the IBM 970 are to be believed, well, this is going to be fantastic.

I just hope they offer duals, but given that a single 1.8 GHz 970 is faster than the dual 1.43 G4, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't offer them immediately. That way they can sell more units in the first offering of the new machines (having more processors available and not putting 2 in all the boxes). And then in September with Panther they'd offer duals when IBM has had a chance to make more.

D

[Kid Red]

Well, we have an entire month before we find. Curious to see what happens between now and then. All I know is that macdobbie has put out some pretty far out stuff concerning the 970 for the past few months. Should they fail on these reports I hope that we don't see their rumors on the front page any longer and they will have no credibility with me any longer.

Still wondering why spymac rumors make it to the front page...

[Anna]

Woah, that is so cool...any news on if the chip will feature in the PB's as well?:D

[FlamDrag]

Well, MacBidouille's credibility will either skyrocket or fall off the planet with these 970 rumors. I don't see a lot of middle ground for them.

I'm not going to get overly pumped about these rumors.

[jimjiminyjim]

No kidding the rumors have been conflicting. We resolve ourselves to waiting until September, then this comes, and to be sure, another one will come saying the opposite again.

Which one is right will determine whether or not apple has chosen processor producers who can keep up with the competition or not.

Either way, I'm human, and as such have that "I don't want to be wrong" sentiment, so I will continue to love Macintosh no matter how far behind they get.

Besides, they are much prettier.

[cubist]

Obviously this means that quantities are very limited. Probably these are for WWDC. Everyone else will get to wait...

[trebblekicked]

Originally posted by cubist
Obviously this means that quantities are very limited. Probably these are for WWDC. Everyone else will get to wait...

even so, an anouncement at wwdc would be quite enough for me; the fact that there will be some available imediately? that would be spectacular. not much to do now but sit back, wait, hope, and see if anyone else has sources as willing to talk as MB does...

[mrnoone]

I really think that Apple needs to release 970 processors in the PowerBooks, at the same time as the powermacs. Who in their right mind would shell out money for a new powerbook when they know new, dramatically faster machines will be around the corner.

[hayesk]

Originally posted by mrnoone
I really think that Apple needs to release 970 processors in the PowerBooks, at the same time as the powermacs. Who in their right mind would shell out money for a new powerbook when they know new, dramatically faster machines will be around the corner.

What if it burns your lap and reduces battery time to 20 minutes? Remember, the G4 was in desktops long before PowerBooks.

Anyone who needs a feature-rich laptop today will buy a PBG4.

[Tiauguinho]

I surely hope that they can take a photo of the Powermac as with last year. That would be fantastic! And a PDF with the Motherboard design would be great as well. If Macbiddouille can pull this off, they will be the kings of the show!

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Tiauguinho
I surely hope that they can take a photo of the Powermac as with last year. That would be fantastic! And a PDF with the Motherboard design would be great as well. If Macbiddouille can pull this off, they will be the kings of the show!

You do have to wonder how they got those images last year, eh? But it seems the security is quite tight this time and the only way we found out about the LCD iMac was because of Time Canada......so, we have less than a month. It will be an interesting time.

D

[kansast]

So they are packed and ready to ship ?
Any word on what these machines will actually be called ? G5s ? 970s ? or what :-)
Was fixing to order a new Dual G4 tower for use at work.. might have to try and hold off for a month or two or three :-)

[evoluzione]

bah, just when i thought i was getting out of debt too :eek:

ahh well, maybe i'll wait for rev.2

[abdul]

where would this put the ibook? that would mean that the ibook will be three processor generation behind. its like dell selling a p2 or original pentium chip.

[mactastic]

Holy floating point operations Batman! Its looking more and more like christmas in June this year.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by evoluzione
bah, just when i thought i was getting out of debt too :eek:

ahh well, maybe i'll wait for rev.2

I'm thinking I might have to as well, even though it will be painful. It all depends on what's offered this first time around. Dual 1.8s would be quite nice, but on the second release we'd probably see 2.3s or so and maybe some adjustments.

Remember the original G4s (I have one) have a firewire connection on the mobo - which isn't used and was subsequently removed in following versions.

D

[dongmin]

Originally posted by cubist
Obviously this means that quantities are very limited. Probably these are for WWDC. Everyone else will get to wait...

how do you figure? the rumor says these will be delivered to wholesalers. that means mass market, baby! so if macbidoodoo is right, these babies will be ready to ship to me and you come june 23.

[redAPPLE]

id say for Apple's sake, they have to ship something...

desktop sales must be basically non-existant.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by hayesk
What if it burns your lap and reduces battery time to 20 minutes? Remember, the G4 was in desktops long before PowerBooks.

Anyone who needs a feature-rich laptop today will buy a PBG4.

Ummm.... well you're kind of wrong here. The 1.2 GHz PPC 970 only requires 19W of power, whereas a 1 GHz G4 requires over 22 W of power. So you'd actually get better performance and longer battery life.

[pkradd]

i seriously doubt it. These chips run too hot for use in portables.

[reyesmac]

Apple must feel pretty confident if they are going to let all this new technology just sit and get old for a month.

I hope it comes with everything a $1,500+ PC without a monitor comes with. Its going to have to be a pretty fast machine for the RDF to work this time. I am sure the REV 2 Powermacs will be worth it when they come out but I don't know about the REV 1's. Apple never seems to get those right, unless you buy the high end model. Usually they stick the new chips on old motherboards and then later you find out that your machine isnt as compatible as the other machines that came out with it at the same time. (G4 Yikes)

They really need to get it right from the start this time.

[GetSome681]

Originally posted by abdul
where would this put the ibook? that would mean that the ibook will be three processor generation behind. its like dell selling a p2 or original pentium chip.

NO, it's more like Dell selling a Celeron chip, which they do.

[mcs37]

Originally posted by pkradd
i seriously doubt it. These chips run too hot for use in portables.

No they don't. As I said, 19 W for 1.2 GHz PPC 970 vs. the 21 or more watts required for a 1 GHz G4.

The PowerPC 970 at that frequency is perfect for the PowerBooks until Apple comes up with better ways to cool the systems and provides more power (fuel cells, anyone?) :D

[GetSome681]

Originally posted by reyesmac
Apple must feel pretty confident if they are going to let all this new technology just sit and get old for a month.

I hope it comes with everything a $1,500+ PC without a monitor comes with. Its going to have to be a pretty fast machine for the RDF to work this time. I am sure the REV 2 Powermacs will be worth it when they come out but I don't know about the REV 1's. Apple never seems to get those right, unless you buy the high end model. Usually they stick the new chips on old motherboards and then later you find out that your machine isnt as compatible as the other machines that came out with it at the same time. (G4 Yikes)


With it being a 64-bit chip, I think it's been finalized around here that it will be *close* to impossible for it to function on a g4 board...pin difference...bus design difference are some of the most notable.

[From Win to Mac]

ya, a Celeron at 2.5 Ghz.... doesn't make much of a difference for the performance they need.

It's not like the iBook was at 700Mhz, right... right ?

Marc

[Lazy]

Originally posted by kansast
So they are packed and ready to ship ?
Any word on what these machines will actually be called ? G5s ? 970s ? or what :-)
Was fixing to order a new Dual G4 tower for use at work.. might have to try and hold off for a month or two or three :-)

Unfortunately the 970 systems are going to be named "Power Mac Extreme".

[From Win to Mac]

If MacBidouille screwed this up, it'll be like Mac OS Rumors / G5 all over again.
If it ends up being true, then they have a REALLY good source. And they should go work for DGSE

[mcs37]

Originally posted by GetSome681
NO, it's more like Dell selling a Celeron chip, which they do.

Eh, not really. The celeron is designed for lower-end users who don't need such performance-boosting things as CPU cache. For someone whose primary use for a laptop computer is surfing the web, doing e-mail, and writing papers (which is a good percentage), a 1 GHz Celeron is pretty good for the price, and also doesn't eat up as much power as higher end CPUs.

The Celeron was designed from the start with this goal in mind, whereas the G3 was the bread and butter for a while, and now it has inherited the "lower performance, but cheaper processor" role when you compare it to the G4.

Then again, the G4 is really showing its aging.

I just hope when I get my Dual PPC 970 17" PowerBook in May 2004, I can play Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 at its highest resolution with max details at over 40 fps. :cool: Did anyone see that 30 minute Half-Life 2 video from E3? My God---it's so realistic it's insane!

[mcs37]

Originally posted by Lazy
Unfortunately the 970 systems are going to be named "Power Mac Extreme".

There have been some rumors that it might actually be called the "G5", since I believe the "Gx" name is a trademark of Apple and not Motorola, so they can call an AMD Opteron the G6 if they began selling them in Apple systems.

[aasmund]

Originally posted by Lazy
Unfortunately the 970 systems are going to be named "Power Mac Extreme".
Where do you have this from? how can you be sure?

Some other ideas:


* PowerMac Pro
* PowerMac G5
* PowerMac 64
* PowerMac 970 <- not likely i think
* PowerMac Ultra <- not likely i think

I think 64 or g5 are most likely, but I don't know anything...

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by mcs37
The PowerPC 970 at that frequency is perfect for the PowerBooks until Apple comes up with better ways to cool the systems and provides more power (fuel cells, anyone?) :D

But I don't see them coming out with a PowerBook version right away, it wouldn't make sense to me, but then I'm not running Apple.

And in the past the PowerMacs have always been the first with the new technology.

But to make this discussion last a little longer, there is the issue of the 15" PowerBooks....where are they?

D

[Eckslusive]

I was just wondering..but will the new one be that much faster as you people praise about it?

[aasmund]

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
If MacBidouille screwed this up, it'll be like Mac OS Rumors / G5 all over again.
If it ends up being true, then they have a REALLY good source. And they should go work for DGSE

No it won't be. Because if Apple doesn't release a PM with a new chip (tries to go quad g4 instead for example) They won't sell any more powermacs. if they don't release a 970 based PM before autumn, I think they will go for Opteron/AMD64. A local store here in norway, hasn't taken in any new powermacs since february, yet they have sold nearly 100 portables, and 40 or so imacs since then.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Eckslusive
I was just wondering..but will the new one be that much faster as you people praise about it?

check this (http://www.macbidouille.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-05-05#5440) out

The single 970 processor beats a dual 1.42 G4

D

[theFly]

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
If MacBidouille screwed this up, it'll be like Mac OS Rumors / G5 all over again.
If it ends up being true, then they have a REALLY good source. And they should go work for DGSE

Let us not forget the LoopRumors, er, rumor a couple of weeks ago claiming that 970's have been shipped to manufacturing. Based on that rumor, we can expect single 1.4 systems, and dual 1.6, 1.8 systems.

As far as naming goes, there was mention somewhere, forget which site, that claimed Apple will be naming their future systems after the chip number. Don't know if I'm keen on PowerMac 970, but who knows. Maybe they just need to drop the whole PowerMac name and come up with something fresh, new.

theFly
www.flyonthemac.com
Rumors You Can Bet On

[Eckslusive]

Cool. Too bad I dont have money for a new one right now. How much do you think I can if I sold my Powermac DP G4 1Ghz SD.

and how much do you think this new PPC 970 is?

[Frobozz]

Okay... I have to say that I have always believed these rumors (with an appropriate grain of salt). They seem very specific and I find it hard to believe that a site would hurt it's credibility with such specific rumors if they were not true. Yes, I suppose it's possible and my life won't end if the 970's aren't out at WWDC... but I have a good feeling about this.

Here's to hope!

[mcs37]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
And in the past the PowerMacs have always been the first with the new technology.

But to make this discussion last a little longer, there is the issue of the 15" PowerBooks....where are they?

Apple is a company known for innovation and surprises, so who knows if their past track record has any bearing on the future.

The 15" AlBooks are something that makes it more interesting to talk about. What we do "know" is that the 15" AlBooks underwent a huge motherboard redesign back at the turn of the year. And it's been a long time since a 15" PowerBook has come out. I want to believe that they will be released the PPC 970 1.2 GHz onto PowerBooks simultaneously with the PowerMacs, to make this year the "year of the laptop." Anyone who knows that the PPC 970 is on a PowerMac but not yet on a PowerBook probably guesses that it's only a matter of time before the PowerBooks get the PPC 970 in some form or another. So you'd see laptop sales plummet since people are holding back (count me in).

But suppose Apple blitzkriegs its customers with PPC 970 offerings: PowerMacs (single and dual), 12" and 17" PowerBook updates, and the long-awaited 15" PowerBook. All PPC 970. So pick your size/needs and buy that laptop/powermac. I am really hoping for the PPC 970 in the 12" PowerBooks since I really refuse to buy a laptop with clock speed under 1 GHz, as GHz machines in the PC world are years old now, and I'm looking to upgrade my PC to a 3.0 GHz machine for under $500.

I highly doubt they will do all this, but I want to believe. :p

[dongmin]

Originally posted by mcs37
Ummm.... well you're kind of wrong here. The 1.2 GHz PPC 970 only requires 19W of power, whereas a 1 GHz G4 requires over 22 W of power. So you'd actually get better performance and longer battery life.

actually your info is outdated. The latest G4 7455 1ghz consumes 15.5 watts (http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/PPCSALESFACT.pdf) and the 7457 which is slated for this fall, does 7.5 watts at 1 ghz. It would make more sense, from a power management point of view, to do a dual 1 ghz G4 system rather than a single 1 ghz 970.

[Winston Smith]

Macdoodoo are well out on a limb on this and i hope they are right.
Can someone pull it all together though - will we see a new enclosure? new pro keyboard (B/T?) and mouse.
Looprumors has had the chip shipping quantities but dare I say it MacWhispers is strangely quiet on the Taiwanese plastics front. Could the G5, 970, XMac etc be an aluminium box?

[Jimmni]

Originally posted by aasmund
Where do you have this from? how can you be sure?

Some other ideas:


* PowerMac Pro
* PowerMac G5
* PowerMac 64
* PowerMac 970 <- not likely i think
* PowerMac Ultra <- not likely i think

I think 64 or g5 are most likely, but I don't know anything...

I don't think so. I think Apple needs to get themselves some new hype around these machines. If they have new machines that match the PC world, they'll want everyone to know they're new and different. Extreme is rubbish, as is 64 (remember the N64? That worked well for it, huh?). Gx has bad connotations for many people. I think we can expect completely new names. Quite possibly changing even the PowerMac part. People see PowerMacs as slow. Apple doesn't want to stay stuck in the desktop rut, and a name change to something Apple-sounding but new would be a good idea, marketing wise. And this is a serious jump... These machines will be nearly as far from the PowerMacs as the PowerMacs were from the 68k Macs... (Let's not get into an argument about how right that is... You get what I mean).

Maybe.

- Jimmni :rolleyes:

[dongmin]

Originally posted by aasmund
* PowerMac Pro
* PowerMac G5
* PowerMac 64
* PowerMac 970 <- not likely i think
* PowerMac Ultra <- not likely i think


Xstation has also been bandied about, although it's rumored to be for a new workstation-type machine.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by reyesmac
Apple must feel pretty confident if they are going to let all this new technology just sit and get old for a month.

Agreed. However, I think the production of these machines were based on many different factors that Apple didn't have absolute control over. For all Apple knew, 3 or 4 months ago, the new mobo's could have showed up late. Or the processors, enclosures, or even the Superdrives.

Also, I don't think it's overly cautious to say that if they are releasing them for immediate availability, that they need to start shipping them to resellers a month in advance. There's a lot of machines to ship and that means a lot of shipments from the manufacturer. I don't think they are sitting on inventory at all. In fact, they may have 1.4's 50% complete, 1.6's and 1.8's only 20% complete, for example.

[areyouwishing]

I just noticed something...

The benchmarks from MacBoo don't say anything about "PowerMac" or any apple reference (at least that i saw), only "PPC 970" This allows them A LOT of wiggle room, everyone knows that IBM is also making 970 Machines for the low-end server market, what if they were using IBM machines to run these benchmarks, in order to do so though, you would have to run Mac on Linux or be running a PowerPC version of windows (not very likely).

Could you imagine if MacBoo's inside (wo)man was actually an IBM person and he was doing all these benchmarks running mac on linux?!?!?

Just adding more (unlikely) fuel to the flames.

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by mcs37
Ummm.... well you're kind of wrong here. The 1.2 GHz PPC 970 only requires 19W of power, whereas a 1 GHz G4 requires over 22 W of power. So you'd actually get better performance and longer battery life.

Steve did say it was the year of the laptop. Let's all hope he was understating it :)

Apple has been suffering "supply issues" from Motorola basicly since day one. It will be interesting to see Apple Computer function as a company when they can actually get the full quantity and speed of chips they order.

There will still be a bit of bleeding edge technology desire by the top dog at Apple but at least the bottom and the middle will no longer suffer big supply stoppages.

Rocketman

[mangoman]

Originally posted by aasmund
Some other ideas:

* PowerMac 64



Too doggone close to Commodore 64, eh? :D

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by areyouwishing
The benchmarks from MacBoo don't say anything about "PowerMac" or any apple reference (at least that i saw), only "PPC 970" This allows them A LOT of wiggle room, everyone knows that IBM is also making 970 Machines for the low-end server market, what if they were using IBM machines to run these benchmarks, in order to do so though, you would have to run Mac on Linux or be running a PowerPC version of windows (not very likely).


But that would also mean that the IBM boxes would run Mac Software. I don't think this is the case.

It might just mean that they're not giving away the new name of the next Apple - making it harder for Apple to figure out who or where the leaks are coming from.

D

[Lazy]

Originally posted by Jimmni
I don't think so. I think Apple needs to get themselves some new hype around these machines. If they have new machines that match the PC world, they'll want everyone to know they're new and different. Extreme is rubbish, as is 64 (remember the N64? That worked well for it, huh?). Gx has bad connotations for many people. I think we can expect completely new names. Quite possibly changing even the PowerMac part. People see PowerMacs as slow. Apple doesn't want to stay stuck in the desktop rut, and a name change to something Apple-sounding but new would be a good idea, marketing wise. And this is a serious jump... These machines will be nearly as far from the PowerMacs as the PowerMacs were from the 68k Macs... (Let's not get into an argument about how right that is... You get what I mean).

Maybe.

- Jimmni :rolleyes:

Re "I think we can expect completely new names. Quite possibly changing even the PowerMac part.", yes, let's fervently hope so. Any XXX for Power Mac XXX will be kind of lame. I thought I'd come up with the lamest with "Extreme", but nope, "Pro" would be even lamer. ('cause aren't all Power Macs already supposed to be Pro machine?) The safest is just to leave it as "Power Mac", as boring as that would be.

[Winston Smith]

Apple has issued a cease and desist notice to Think Secret for the iSync 1.1 romour.
If Mac french is so accurate on this why haven't they been warned off?
Don't want to pour cold water on this but I have a bad feeling.

Could this all be about IBM boxes?

[mcs37]

Originally posted by Rocketman
Apple has been suffering "supply issues" from Motorola basicly since day one. It will be interesting to see Apple Computer function as a company when they can actually get the full quantity and speed of chips they order.

Amen. Well, IBM is a great company and can easily meet the requirements that Apple puts on it. If it's true in recent rumors that IBM is shipping a hundred thousand PPC970 chips to Apple manufacturers, that's a pretty good sign that we're on the money.

[jdstoddard]

Before arriving at the heart of the subject, remember that what follows is a rumour, without tangible proof. However if we chose to publish it, it is that it has very good chances to be true.

First Computers PPC 970 left the production lines and are even already packed on pallets. Pallets are covered with the opaque and sealed film. There are above stickers with following information:

"tamper proof seal, confidential property inside, prosecution may result personal yew opened by unauthorized"

They will start to be delivered to the wholesalers of confidence very soon with absolute order of not to be opened before June 23. APPLE had already used this method during launching of the Cube and more recently of the iMac G4.

[shadowfax]

boy, this sure seems page 2 to me. very speculative, and odd. i mean, it's still almost a month till WWDC. why would they get them ready so soon so they can sit there while apple discovers problems they'll wish they could have fixed? i wouldn't have put them together so fast. this doesn't seem like a good idea to me (and hence i doubt this rumor greatly).

[JJTiger1]

My 6500 replaced an older Performa 630CD. I bought my closed-out discontinued and left-over new PowerMac 6500/250 in Feb 1998.
-
I bought my closed-out discontinued new QuickSilver 733 in Feb 2002.
-
Probably, I will be buying a closed-out discontinued new "WHAT?" in Feb 2006?
-
WHATever my QuickSilver's replacement is gonna be called, it has to feel three times faster than the QuickSilver. Not just a number on some pocket protected geekster's specification sheet obtained in a vacuum in a laboratory.:cool:
=-=
Here is how Steve could name the computer: Collect all of Lisa's alphabet blocks into a bucket, then toss all of the blocks onto the floor allowing the cat to chase the blocks. Whatever the cat rounds-up, that's the name of the next computer.:rolleyes:
-
JJ :D

[areyouwishing]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
But that would also mean that the IBM boxes would run Mac Software. I don't think this is the case.

D

not necessarily...

http://www.maconlinux.org/faq.html

ANY PPC Chip will run OS X

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by areyouwishing
not necessarily...

http://www.maconlinux.org/faq.html

ANY PPC Chip will run OS X

Very interesting indeed - but is this a PPC Chip since its a 64bit CPU and that Apple has had to redo the whole mobo. Would MOL be able to run on a IBM 970 box running linux?

Cool though, and I'll have to tell a few friends of mine about this software. Thanks,

D

[primalman]

Originally posted by mcs37
Apple is a company known for innovation and surprises, so who knows if their past track record has any bearing on the future.

The 15" AlBooks are something that makes it more interesting to talk about. What we do "know" is that the 15" AlBooks underwent a huge motherboard redesign back at the turn of the year. And it's been a long time since a 15" AlBook has come out.

What? There has not been an Aluminum Powerbook 15" yet. What the hell?

:confused:

[cubist]

Originally posted by JJTiger1
....
Here is how Steve could name the computer: Collect all of Lisa's alphabet blocks into a bucket, then toss all of the blocks onto the floor allowing the cat to chase the blocks. Whatever the cat rounds-up, that's the name of the next computer. ...

Yay! The new Power Mac Cvajkqr! :-) At least it's better than Extreme :-P

[dongmin]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
boy, this sure seems page 2 to me. very speculative, and odd. i mean, it's still almost a month till WWDC. why would they get them ready so soon so they can sit there while apple discovers problems they'll wish they could have fixed? i wouldn't have put them together so fast. this doesn't seem like a good idea to me (and hence i doubt this rumor greatly).

well the rumor says they are ready to be shipped to wholesalers soon. That means another 2-3 weeks before resellers can get them in stock. So the lag is only a week or two before June 23. The timing seems OK. But Apple has never been right on schedule with anything. The timing here seems too good to be true.

[moyashi]

:D Here's my shot at what's happening.

We're gonna see a whole 970 family. I wonder that there while be a family name change too ... however I doubt that.

The megahertz posted here and there I agree with since it makes sense.

I see 970 15" powerbooks too. Hey, where are they already? Probably a boost in the 17" and 12" versions too. dual??? hehe, I wish.

iBook is what is bothering me here ... The newest casing basically eats doo-doo. It feels like it's plastic, while my 700 14" iBook is much more sturdier. I imagine that either a IBM based G4 will go into the iBooks since the eMac is already a student machine.

I don't imagine the iBooks, towers and powerbook will be upgraded together since Apple will milk the markets BUT ... school is going to start in September. So, Apple releases version 1 of 970 products and by the time school is ready to start products will be in the channels fully.

interesting is that I expect panther to come in June too. Why not?

And yes, I imagine that the towers will be Ai or at least similar looking to xserve.
:o ahh bore. My iBook draws attention from the ladies while powerbook users are magnets for the "gates" types ;)


Why depend on rumor sites? If you think about it ... you'll have rev 1 machines that will solve the warping problems ... but still have mouse ports on the left hand side and cd slots where your mouse sits :p

[mcs37]

Originally posted by primalman
What? There has not been an Aluminum Powerbook 15" yet. What the hell?

Fixed. :) I meant 15" PowerBook, obviously.

[mactastic]

rev A will have problems. my credit card is waiting for sometime in early/mid '04 when the rev B's come out. But i still can't wait for the announcement of the new chips. That will be a great day for apple. Mmmmmmmm.... chips (drools like Homer)

[aasmund]

Originally posted by dongmin
Xstation has also been bandied about, although it's rumored to be for a new workstation-type machine.

I think a whole new name would be a good idea. I think Xstation sounds too Xbox/Playstation like though. How about Supermac? However I don't think they are going to abandon the powermac name, apple, very seldom abandons a brand.

[areyouwishing]

Originally posted by moyashi
[BiBook is what is bothering me here ... The newest casing basically eats doo-doo. It feels like it's plastic, while my 700 14" iBook is much more sturdier. I imagine that either a IBM based G4 will go into the iBooks since the eMac is already a student machine.

I don't imagine the iBooks, towers and powerbook will be upgraded together since Apple will milk the markets BUT ... school is going to start in September. So, Apple releases version 1 of 970 products and by the time school is ready to start products will be in the channels fully.

interesting is that I expect panther to come in June too. Why not?

And yes, I imagine that the towers will be Ai or at least similar looking to xserve.
:o ahh bore. My iBook draws attention from the ladies while powerbook users are magnets for the "gates" types ;)

[/B]

You know what i could see happening, is a discontinuation of the ibook line altogether when they come out with 970 notebooks. All they need to do is add a 14" G4...the 12" and 14" aibooks would replace the ibooks. Then they would have the 15" and 17" 970 powerbooks for the upper end....apple is starting to get away from the lovely white, and over to the brushed metal look(ack!)

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
boy, this sure seems page 2 to me. very speculative, and odd. i mean, it's still almost a month till WWDC. why would they get them ready so soon so they can sit there while apple discovers problems they'll wish they could have fixed? i wouldn't have put them together so fast. this doesn't seem like a good idea to me (and hence i doubt this rumor greatly).

You have a good point there -- but remember Apple was seriously burned by the lack of G4 iMac supplies during the first three months after its introduction. It makes perfect sense to me for them to have these machines stockpiled and ready for the distribution channels on the very day they are announced. Fast out of the gate matters.

The only thing that bothers me about this rumor is the X-factor -- 10.3. Maybe I've made a poor assumption, but I thought 10.3 was the minimum OS for the PPC 970 machines, and it's not even scheduled to be announced officially until WWDC. Is it possible Apple will also ship 10.3 in June? How else can these facts and rumors be reconciled?

[JtheLemur]

Actually, I'm certain the iBooks will stick around. Why? Because the Aluminums are way too fragile to be used in schools and other high-traffic places. I've got carts fill of iceBooks, and they take a SERIOUS beating without missing a... beat... =) They do need a more durable, throw-it-in-your-backpack computer for at least the education market.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by JtheLemur
Actually, I'm certain the iBooks will stick around. Why? Because the Aluminums are way too fragile to be used in schools and other high-traffic places.

I thought the AlBooks were supposed to be more durable cuz of the anodized aluminium case? Are they damage prone?

[Foxer]

Originally posted by Winston Smith
Apple has issued a cease and desist notice to Think Secret for the iSync 1.1 romour.
If Mac french is so accurate on this why haven't they been warned off?
Don't want to pour cold water on this but I have a bad feeling.

First, I assume that MacBadoodaldoo is in France. Therefore, there is no court in the US from which Apple could get an TRO or injunction. I know very little about the French legal system (aside from what I learned in my Compaitive International Law course), so I don't know how easy it would be for Apple to get some sort of writ (of course, it wouldn't be a writ outside of an English-speaking nation) to stop MacBabbette from posting these rumors.

That aside, I am dubious about these rumors. I have no factual basis for this doubt, but few of us have factual bases for anything we're saying in this thread. I hope they're true...

I guess we'll see in a month.

[Hawthorne]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Is it possible Apple will also ship 10.3 in June? How else can these facts and rumors be reconciled?

By a very long, very exciting SteveNote, that's how! :D

And can we please stop with the "Apple's going to use Opteron!" rumors? Ain't gonna happen. Every line of every program out there, both in X and 9, would have re-written. Coming on the heels of the conversion to X, this would mean a revolt by every single developer Apple has.

[PinellMedia]

FWIW-

I spoke to an Apple rep this weekend at my local store. He insisted that I wait until after the WWDC before I think about buying a new PowerMac.

I'm convinced the new machines will indeed be announced at WWDC.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Hawthorne
By a very long, very exciting SteveNote, that's how! :D

And can we please stop with the "Apple's going to use Opteron!" rumors? Ain't gonna happen. Every line of every program out there, both in X and 9, would have re-written. Coming on the heels of the conversion to X, this would mean a revolt by every single developer Apple has. Not true. While I agree that I don't think an AMD/Intel version of OS X will come out, not every line of code would need to change. In fact, for Cocoa app's very little code if any would need to change.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
The only thing that bothers me about this rumor is the X-factor -- 10.3. Maybe I've made a poor assumption, but I thought 10.3 was the minimum OS for the PPC 970 machines, and it's not even scheduled to be announced officially until WWDC. Is it possible Apple will also ship 10.3 in June? How else can these facts and rumors be reconciled?

I could be wrong, but I don't think the machines will need 10.3 to run a 970. A couple of threads in this forum have indicated otherwise. It seems to me that a simple recompile of 10.2.6 would suffice to "hardware enable" the 970. Obviously, the 970 will run best on a 64bit optimized 10.3 system, but it's by no means a requirement.

[neutrino23]

So LoopRumors said the 970 chips were shipping to Taiwan and MacWhispers said the new 15" Al books were sitting waiting for 970 chips. Seems to be a convergence of rumors here.

As far as this being too early for Apple to start stockpiling machines, the rumor doesn't give us numbers. they may just be trickling off the line. It may take four or five weeks of production to have enough ready to meet initial demand (40,000?).

Finally, do you have any idea how hard it is to orchestrate all of the designers, engineers and vendors schedules in order to have a new product come out at a certain time? I have a hard time getting my expense reports done on time.:eek:

The question raised above about the OS is good. Panther won't be ready till the fall. Will these run something like 10.2.7 in 32 bit mode until Panther comes along with 64 bit operation?

[Cappy]

Originally posted by aasmund
I think a whole new name would be a good idea. I think Xstation sounds too Xbox/Playstation like though. How about Supermac? However I don't think they are going to abandon the powermac name, apple, very seldom abandons a brand.

Apple line of computers(Apple II+, Apple IIe, etc.)
Quadra
Newton
Performa
Laserwriter
Workgroup Server

Quite a few actually(percentagewise) as far as Apple's more significant products over the years in the eyes of Apple's targetted markets. Someone could make a case for some of that being whole model lines being discontinued due to transition or poor sales but the same can be stated for PowerMac. I merely pointed out the more significant names that Apple has used. There are others out there like duo and centris among others but I don't believe they ever got entrenched like the above I listed as a real "brandname" that the target audience could keep in their head. Remember PowerMacs have gotten negtive publicity and bad sales for awhile now for being too slow compared to others in the same markets. A new name can help sell systems if the performance is there.

[Sol]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
The only thing that bothers me about this rumor is the X-factor -- 10.3. Maybe I've made a poor assumption, but I thought 10.3 was the minimum OS for the PPC 970 machines, and it's not even scheduled to be announced officially until WWDC.

You are very right! So far Apple's invitations for the WWDC state that OS X.3 will be previewed. Considering that a 970 PowerMac would feature a redesigned motherboard it would most certainly need a major OS update in order to boot up. Frankly I can't see how these computers could be packaged and wrapped up without OS X.3 being ready.

[lemmon]

does no one else think that apple will come out with these new 970s, and continue to keep the g4 towers?

all i ever read is gripe after gripe about how apple needs a low cost tower for the mid-level consumer. would this not be a pristine time for that?

it's obvious that this move to ibm is not going to usurp motorola's role in apple for some time, so why not just drop the prices on the current mdd towers and continue production -- marketing them alongside (( slightly above )) the imacs, but drastically below the xMac (( you know that's probably going to be the new calling card )).

perhaps i am a hopeless dreamer, but i've always drooled over macs. the first one i remember was an early quadra (( i'm not that old )). apple has always surprised me, whether it be good or bad, it's always a surprise.

so maybe this will be the biggest surprise. maybe these 970s will be the blow to the g4's confidence that is needed to drop the price on current towers. does anyone else see the niche market for inexpensive towers in apple? it would fill that void that switchers see when they compare what they're used to (( read: expandibility )) to what they can afford (( imac )).

sorry, didn't mean to run off on a tangent, but normally i just kind of sit back and read (( and ask for help :) )), i don't tend to jump into the arguments.

---perhaps this is the reincarnation of the quadra.............xQuadra :rolleyes:

[macnews]

Normally when we have seen upgrades/improvements to an Apple line I have heard rumors about low supplies of the previous model. Does anyone know if Powermac supplies are running low? I would think at least the low end models would be depleted before introducing the 970.

Knowing this would add a little more credibility or at least believability to any 970 rumor.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by lemmon
does no one else think that apple will come out with these new 970s, and continue to keep the g4 towers?

all i ever read is gripe after gripe about how apple needs a low cost tower for the mid-level consumer. would this not be a pristine time for that?

does anyone else see the niche market for inexpensive towers in apple? it would fill that void that switchers see when they compare what they're used to (( read: expandibility )) to what they can afford (( imac )).

sorry, didn't mean to run off on a tangent, but normally i just kind of sit back and read (( and ask for help :) )), i don't tend to jump into the arguments.


Sorry if I'm perpetuating a little tangential post myself, but I think so. A $999 single processor G4 tower with all the pro features like FW800, dual monitors, extra hard drive bays etc. would sell like crazy IMHO. Gives people one more option in the apple line.

[avus]

Originally posted by aasmund
I think a whole new name would be a good idea. I think Xstation sounds too Xbox/Playstation like though. How about Supermac? However I don't think they are going to abandon the powermac name, apple, very seldom abandons a brand.

SuperMac is the name already used by UMAX when they were making clones back in late 90's.

http://www.everymac.com/systems/umax/index.html

[nagromme]

I do expect Apple will show Panther and 970s at WWDC--maybe in secret with NDA.

I do NOT think Panther could possibly ship so soon.

As for the 970 Macs themselves shipping--it would be great, but I find it JUST barely within the realm of possibility. Unlikely, but possible.

They could ship without Panther, as long as performance in Jaguar was still impressive. I'd expect a free coupon for Panther in the box--it would enable the full 64-bit computing that was unavailable at first. (But 64-bit is not primarily a speed issue, so our current software may well run fantastically on a re-compiled 32-bit Jaguar for 970.)

Name suggestions:

Power Macintosh X5

or
Macintosh X5

[yzedf]

Originally posted by GetSome681
NO, it's more like Dell selling a Celeron chip, which they do.
Celeron is just a name (like Pentium), not a spec. Current Celeron's are P4 based, just as old one's were P3 and P2 before that...

[noverflow]

Time to inject some logic into this thread!

Opteron SUCKS
Yes, that is right. it is not faster than even the xeons right now... how do i know? look at www.tomshardware.com for quite some time now that have had info on real running ones.

SO WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO PUT ONE IN A MAC??????


MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.

how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things

for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.

What we are doing with the wide spread over kill will kill apple WHEN it is not as fast as we say.

We are loving apple to the point that we are the ones who will cause its death.

[Shaktai]

Originally posted by Sol
You are very right! So far Apple's invitations for the WWDC state that OS X.3 will be previewed. Considering that a 970 PowerMac would feature a redesigned motherboard it would most certainly need a major OS update in order to boot up. Frankly I can't see how these computers could be packaged and wrapped up without OS X.3 being ready.

The 970 will run just fine with a modified version of Jaguar, in much the same way that that current 32 bit apps will run on it. It is not even a major rewrite because of the operating similarities. Panther will be needed to unleash the full 64 bit capabilities. Panther however is much more then just a 64 bit capable OS. It will bring dramatic improvements to any current OS-X compatible Mac.

Panther is not required. A patched version of Jaguar will do the job for a couple of months. Apple needs to get the hardware out first though, then the developers can start to work on the killer apps along with Panther.

[icrew]

Originally posted by Cappy
Apple line of computers(Apple II+, Apple IIe, etc.)
Quadra
Newton
Performa
Laserwriter
Workgroup Server

Quite a few actually(percentagewise) as far as Apple's more significant products over the years in the eyes of Apple's targetted markets.

Maybe they could just bring back the name "Macintosh"? Forget PowerMac, forget G4, just "Macintosh"....

What do you think?

[Centris 650]

I think they should dust off the "Centris" name and call the new 970's "Centris II" :p :D (Just kidding of course. But I really loved my Centris 650. What a great computer.)

I'm holding out untill December/January sometime to purchase a new mac. Hopefully any Rev A problems will be minimal by then.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by PinellMedia
FWIW-

I spoke to an Apple rep this weekend at my local store. He insisted that I wait until after the WWDC before I think about buying a new PowerMac.


I don't think the sales reps at Apple stores (or any other stores, for that matter) are informed about new product announcements, especially not a month in advance. I remember overhearing a sales rep in an Apple store advising a customer to "wait until Tuesday" before buying a new iPod... that was back in February! I think they get their "inside" information from the same place we do. ;)

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by noverflow
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things

for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.
This only will be true in real world performance if the G4 gets a fast FSB. The 970's FSB will make it smoke the current G4 even on AlitVec since the G4's AltiVec sit's idle too much, waiting for bits to waddle over the single data rate bus.

[TheAnswer]

Given that the OS marketing is now (since Jaguar) marketing the product with the code-name...what are the chances we'll see this on the hardware side?

Oddly...both the MDD and FW 800 G4 Towers have had lame code names...maybe the ad wizards are saving all the real cool code names for the 970.

I can imagine a product line name like "PowerMac Pro" or "PowerMac Extreme" then the revision or "edition" name is the code name and this is worked into marketing on the box, etc.

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by macnews
N Does anyone know if Powermac supplies are running low? I would think at least the low end models would be depleted before introducing the 970.


In parts of Europe, it has not been possible to get PowerMacs for some time, so it is one more piece of the puzzzle. I wrote to MacBidouille and they are confident about their predictions. That does not make it so but THIS set of predicitions has been constant and thus different from a single outrageous announcement from which recovery is possible... MacBidouille has set itself up for a fatal event if they are completely wrong on this one. And MacBidouille could not be stopped from publishing this rumor.. there is no easy legal way to do so.
The fact that the WWDC was moved to a larger venue and postponed adds even more to the idea that Apple is going to do something very different... and a preview of Panther is not it... that alone would be insufficient reason to make this change.

Moreover, note the virtual silence coming from the US rumor sites on the subject of 970s (under intense pressure to be silent??): that, and MacBidouille's constant announcements make an intriguing case for this rumor to be true. As for PBs with double processors... not likely. High end Macs, servers and low cost decked out G4s are much more likely but one can never say never. Apple is full of surprises and in the last few years under SJ, there have been some good ones.

[Lanbrown]

Originally posted by Sol
You are very right! So far Apple's invitations for the WWDC state that OS X.3 will be previewed. Considering that a 970 PowerMac would feature a redesigned motherboard it would most certainly need a major OS update in order to boot up. Frankly I can't see how these computers could be packaged and wrapped up without OS X.3 being ready.

When Sun went to 64-bit chips, they still provided a 32-bit OS. They actually recommended not using the 64-bit OS if the processor was below 200MHz. Whenever they come out with a new system, they provide a CD with it. If you need to reload the OS, you reload it with one that was released in the past few quarters and then use the CD to add support for that particular family of system to get rid of the error messages and make it stable. A 32-bit OS will run on 64-bit systems. Just recently did Sun retire the ability to use the 32-bit OS on the 64-bit systems, and that was the release of the USIII processor.

A totally different MB doesn’t mean that a new OS is needed. The architecture of the system is what matters. The only difference being that one uses a 32-bit processor and the other a 64-bit. The 970 can run 32-bit code, so a 32-bit OS would suffice for now, they could provide a 64-bit version of 10.2.x but highly doubt they would put the resources in it. Those resources would be better of spent on 10.3.

Lance

[applemacdude]

this news made my day. i want a 970 imac..please

[Veldek]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
The only thing that bothers me about this rumor is the X-factor -- 10.3. Maybe I've made a poor assumption, but I thought 10.3 was the minimum OS for the PPC 970 machines, and it's not even scheduled to be announced officially until WWDC.

One of the first MacBidouille rumors said, that the new PPC 970 macs will indeed ship with 10.2 while 10.3 will arrive in September.

[applemacdude]

Originally posted by icrew
Maybe they could just bring back the name "Macintosh"? Forget PowerMac, forget G4, just "Macintosh"....

What do you think?

uh...no

[Balooba]

I have two late-breaking news for ya:

1. The shipment of the 40000 970 chips are designated for the iPod production line. This will enable the users to browse through 3000+ songs in less than a second or play them at Fast Forward pace up to 2000 beats per minute!

2. The new 970 PowerMacs will have different names dependent on the market. The previous names were a disaster as for example "G4" means "prostitute" in Spanish with sales dropping significantly in for example Cuba. The new names (for four large European markets, I am not sure which) will be

ÜberMac
MacAroni
MacBeth
Freedom Mac

Funnily enough, for Washington DC the new name will be MacThePresidentIsAnEmptyWarHead

[rastalin94]

From everything I have read it sounds like Motorola was working on the G5 for Apple and than all of a sudden said, no we do not want to do this, sorry Apple. Motorola had to know that by doing this they were going to hurt Apple.

Also if I remember right ATI pulled something a while back by releasing information too early and Steve got mad and all of a sudden started using Nvidia in Apple products.

My point is that you do not ****** with Steve, and Motorola basically bent Apple over and put it where the sun don’t shine. Because of this it would not surprise me if in one keynote Apple has dropped Motorola all at once. This seems like something Steve would do. Lay quiet, and than cut the cord with Motorola all at once. He is than stuck with only one supplier of CPU’s for his products, but IBM is not going any where, and they were going to make a 970 chip anyway, just might not have added the SIMD code to the chip.

What does this mean for the consumer, I could see 970’s in high end stuff as fast as possible and some new form of the G3 for everything else. And I think part of this will have nothing to do with Steve wanting to get the best technology into peoples hands as much as he just wants to get away from Motorola as fast as he came for what they did to Apple.

[pimentoLoaf]

23 June: two days after Harry Potter...

[BenRoethig]

Originally posted by yzedf
Celeron is just a name (like Pentium), not a spec. Current Celeron's are P4 based, just as old one's were P3 and P2 before that...

Just like the current G3/4s have evolved much since they were first introduced.

[powermatt]

Originally posted by hayesk
What if it burns your lap and reduces battery time to 20 minutes?

because of the architecture of the chip, the 970's should actually run cooler than a G4 chip.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jimjiminyjim
No kidding the rumors have been conflicting. We resolve ourselves to waiting until September, then this comes, and to be sure, another one will come saying the opposite again.

Which one is right will determine whether or not apple has chosen processor producers who can keep up with the competition or not.

Either way, I'm human, and as such have that "I don't want to be wrong" sentiment, so I will continue to love Macintosh no matter how far behind they get.

Besides, they are much prettier.

I'm curious about this kind of sentiment, as most of the rumors I've seen have been pointing to the WWDC as the release date. I've only seen one rumor which has suggested the possibility that the release will be later.

I, for one, am optomistic about the 970 coming at the WWDC, given everything that's floating around about them....


20...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by cubist
Obviously this means that quantities are very limited. Probably these are for WWDC. Everyone else will get to wait...

I really don't see where you're getting this from. It doesn't seem at all obvious to me. In fact it seems the opposite is obvious. If they're starting to get their stocks ready a month ahead of time, it seems likely that they are stockpiling enough to have a complete product roll-out at WWDC.


19...

[mrdrumbum]

yes, system upgrades have been on the power macs first usually but steve jobs said himself that this is the year of the notebook. 970 on the 15 albook!!!

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by hayesk
What if it burns your lap and reduces battery time to 20 minutes? Remember, the G4 was in desktops long before PowerBooks.

Anyone who needs a feature-rich laptop today will buy a PBG4.

Yes, but from what we understand, the G4 was far less suited to mobile implementation. Given that the 970 is better suited, it doesn't seem too unbelieveable that we'll see a 970 PowerBook some time soon.


18...

[commandZ]

If it seems too good to be true, …

Let’s see, not only has IBM completed 970 production, but Apple has secretly assembled the computers, boxed and sealed! And only MacBibouille, from across the ocean, knows about it.

And as if that whopper isn’t big enough, MacBib has benchmarks to boot!

Even though you are not to open the sealed boxes for another month, feel free to visit MacBib, and their friendly sponsors!
:D

[Sayer]

I asked my four year old daughter (not that being female has anything to do with it) what the new Mac's name should be.

She said "STEVE JOBS!" Yes I have a second generation Mac family.

I could just imagine a STEVE JOBS computer with Steve OS 10.3. Instead of tool tips it would constantly berrate you, calling your work sh&#105;t and scream "Why aren't you using the DOCK? Don't you know how COOL it iS? Who needs those wussy Amelio Tabbed folders? You have the DOCK!"

And while the screensaver was running Steve OS would delete Carbon and Microsoft apps. When you went looking for them Steve OS would ask if you are a virign, if you eat meat and openly flirt with your girlfriend/wife instead of helping you find your missing apps.

IF any of you think Steve Jobs walks 2 inches above the ground, get real. Hes very VERY much human and would have no problem tearing you apart verbally if you ever told him NeXT was an utter failure or the G4 Cube was an overpriced flop.

Steve had his revenge by organizing a coup after his return to Apple where he promptly threw out Sculley's "Scribble Toy" and placed his NeXT cronies in positions of power effectively changing Apple into NeXT 2.0. He's not a very nice person, he just pretends to be for Stevenotes and to get you to drink his Kool-Aid.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by GetSome681
NO, it's more like Dell selling a Celeron chip, which they do.

Um, no. Celerons (today) are crippled P4 designs. The aren't even based on the P3 anymore, much less the P2 that they originally (IIRC) were based off.

The only place the Intel world has multiple architectures (aside from Intel vs AMD) is the Banias chip (Centrino), which is quickly replacing the P3 in low-power situations (don't see it in servers yet though). Everything else (P4, P4-M, Xeon, Celeron) is based off the Pentium-4 internal architecture.

Also, equating P2/P3 to G3/G4 is misleading. The differences between P2 and P3 are vanishingly small with the exception of a slight enhancement to SSE (similar to adding a few new Altivec instructions, not to introducing Altivec altogether).

G3/G4 are different designs with different strengths. Although related, they have different performance characteristics (ie, a G3 can, in some instances, out-benchmark a similarly clocked G4)

[lazyrighteye]

I own an iBook/500, and have noticed the redeux casing of the newest iBook models - what junk. So flimsy, so cheap, very unApple. Those v.1 models are, structuraly, a much higher quality.

Anyway, this is all interesting banter.
While anyone following Apple for any significant amount of time wold agree that the "announce and deliver" in the same day" concept seems crazy, it's how it should have been all along. If Apple is going IBM, I expect shipping the same day as announcements, from here on out.

Wouldn't it be wonderful to see a whole new 970 line, portables > desktops announced? Not saying it'll happen, but sure would make for a major event. The press would go bonkers, hype would run high, and product would move, move, move.

[3.1416]

I think people are reading way too much into Steve's "year of the notebook" comment. Remember, he said this 5 months ago, when the timeline for the 970 was still uncertain. Based on IBM's schedule, the original plan may have been to announce the 970 around September and ship in October or November. But *if* IBM has been able to produce the 970s ahead of schedule (this is the critical element on which all the rumors rest), then Apple's plans would have changed drastically. This would account for the last-minute WWDC delay, and possibly the absence of the updated 15" PB.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by noverflow
Time to inject some logic into this thread!

Opteron SUCKS
Yes, that is right. it is not faster than even the xeons right now... how do i know? look at www.tomshardware.com for quite some time now that have had info on real running ones.

SO WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO PUT ONE IN A MAC??????


MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.

how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things

for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.

What we are doing with the wide spread over kill will kill apple WHEN it is not as fast as we say.

We are loving apple to the point that we are the ones who will cause its death.

You're not taking into account motherboard design, bus speed, or memory architecture. It's possible.

[commandZ]

If it seems too good to be true, …

Let’s see, not only has IBM completed 970 production, but Apple has secretly assembled the computers, boxed and sealed! And only MacBibouille, from across the ocean, knows about it.

And as if that whopper isn’t big enough, MacBib has benchmarks to boot!

Even though you are not to open the sealed boxes for another month, feel free to visit MacBib, and their friendly sponsors!
:D

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by Sol
You are very right! So far Apple's invitations for the WWDC state that OS X.3 will be previewed. Considering that a 970 PowerMac would feature a redesigned motherboard it would most certainly need a major OS update in order to boot up. Frankly I can't see how these computers could be packaged and wrapped up without OS X.3 being ready.

Another "makes me wonder" factor about the upcoming WWDC: The rumors are in unusually strong alignment pointing towards some sort of 970 rollout at WWDC next month, but so far at least, Apple's PR department does not seem to be preparing for the media bash we might expect for such a big announcement. In fact when WWDC was rescheduled, I e-mailed Apple PR with a question about media access to the keynote, and received no reply. Granted, I'm not on the media "A" list, but if Apple is indeed preparing to announce and ship a major product, I'd assume they'd want the hall filled with scribblers, and not just the heavy-hitters (who will probably see it beforehand under and NDA anyway).

Just trying to test this rumor from all angles. I still firmly believe it's going to happen, but some of the pieces haven't quite fallen into place yet.

[dbenesch]

I would really like to believe this rumor. However, if the 970s are indeed packaged and ready to be shipped, then does that mean that 10.3 is done? If it's done, then why did Apple postpone WWDC until June? Wouldn't the original date have been good enough to show 10.3?

I highly doubt this is true. Production may have begun, but they would not have packaged them until the OS is complete.

[noel4r]

hmm, well at least we wont have to wait too long to see if this rumor is true. if this turns out to be bogus, then MacBidoulle rumors shouldn't be discussed here anymore. remember, 1 month.....

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by commandZ
If it seems too good to be true, ?

Let?s see, not only has IBM completed 970 production, but Apple has secretly assembled the computers, boxed and sealed! And only MacBibouille, from across the ocean, knows about it.

And as if that whopper isn?t big enough, MacBib has benchmarks to boot!

Even though you are not to open the sealed boxes for another month, feel free to visit MacBib, and their friendly sponsors!
:D

Not saying you're wrong, mind you, but when the 12 inch Powerbooks were announced they were available more or less right after, and nobody but Arn had any inkling it was coming - and he didn't post it (or know about it?) until the day before the announcement.

[freundt]

Originally posted by dbenesch
I would really like to believe this rumor. However, if the 970s are indeed packaged and ready to be shipped, then does that mean that 10.3 is done? If it's done, then why did Apple postpone WWDC until June? Wouldn't the original date have been good enough to show 10.3?

I highly doubt this is true. Production may have begun, but they would not have packaged them until the OS is complete.

I do not think there would need to be a complete os change to support the 970's. I grant you the kernel would have to be updated to account for the new mother boards, and possibly change some of the device drivers.

Other than that -some minor changes to the os - the 970's should run 10.2 just fine.

But then again, I could be totally wrong on this.. anyone, anyone?

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by lemmon
does no one else think that apple will come out with these new 970s, and continue to keep the g4 towers?

...

it's obvious that this move to ibm is not going to usurp motorola's role in apple for some time, so why not just drop the prices on the current mdd towers and continue production -- marketing them alongside (( slightly above )) the imacs, but drastically below the xMac (( you know that's probably going to be the new calling card )).


While this might make sense, it requires that current G4 chips be cheap enough for Apple to significantly drop the price. Remember they only offer the base model in a single processor format, presumably to reduce costs. So if the G4 1.4 costs $600 (or whatever, I just made that number up) it may be difficult to sell cheap G4 machines.

Imagine, if a 970 was actually cheaper than a G4!

Anyone have info on current prices on G4's in the kind of quantities Apple buys?

[Veldek]

Originally posted by dbenesch
I would really like to believe this rumor. However, if the 970s are indeed packaged and ready to be shipped, then does that mean that 10.3 is done? If it's done, then why did Apple postpone WWDC until June? Wouldn't the original date have been good enough to show 10.3?

I highly doubt this is true. Production may have begun, but they would not have packaged them until the OS is complete.

Points to his above post.

It's not that it means much, but as I stated before, even MacBidouille said Apple will ship 970s with 10.2. I don't see why this shouldn't be possible.

Originally posted by commandZ
If it seems too good to be true, …

Let’s see, not only has IBM completed 970 production, but Apple has secretly assembled the computers, boxed and sealed! And only MacBibouille, from across the ocean, knows about it.

And as if that whopper isn’t big enough, MacBib has benchmarks to boot!

Even though you are not to open the sealed boxes for another month, feel free to visit MacBib, and their friendly sponsors!

Is there a reason to post this twice?

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by abdul
where would this put the ibook? that would mean that the ibook will be three processor generation behind. its like dell selling a p2 or original pentium chip.

I think that it's a reasonable possibility that the iBook will make the (very easy) migration to the 750GX (aka Gobi). As Gobi is rumored to have an Altivec unit on it, this will effectively make this an IBM G4. Thus, the iBook will move to, after a fashion, a G4. (That is, if I'm right...)


17...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by pkradd
i seriously doubt it. These chips run too hot for use in portables.

Uh... where are you getting your numbers from? Everything I've read suggests that these chips run cooler than most G4s, including most of those in the current PowerBooks...

16...

[nikfel]

I only have one problem ok maybe more than one but anyway hear me out. If Steve told us that this year is the year of the laptop then why would they introduce new powermacs with 970 processors, this would remove all the hype from the portables and make it the year of the Powermacs not the laptops. If new Powermacs are released in a months time with 970 processors....then they would have to also update the powerbooks with likewise processors or else ot would not be the year of the laptop, right. Any way what I am trying to say i cannot decide what year it is...

1. year of the laptop
2. year of new powermacs (970)
3. year of new powermacs and laptops (both 970)
4. year of nothing

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
...
And in the past the PowerMacs have always been the first with the new technology....

Always is a bit of a strong statement. Especially considering the fact that the processor just one back from our current processor was release simultaneously in the Power Macs and PowerBooks.

Apple will do what it can. If they can release a PB 970, I'm fairly certain they will. They are, after all, fighting for market share.


15...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by mactastic
Sorry if I'm perpetuating a little tangential post myself, but I think so. A $999 single processor G4 tower with all the pro features like FW800, dual monitors, extra hard drive bays etc. would sell like crazy IMHO. Gives people one more option in the apple line.

I agree, this woud be a good thing. Apple could use adding a new tier to their marketing strategy. There really needs to be more than just Pro and Consumer levels. At one point, there was talk of a Prosumer level that would split these two. Maybe now we might see something like that...? But, I won't hold my breath for it. (Besides, I'm a PB user. I can't stand not being portable. :D )


14...

[freundt]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Apple will do what it can. If they can release a PB 970, I'm fairly certain they will. They are, after all, fighting for market share.

Exactly. Right now, I think Apple is gonna do everything they can to get these chips as fast as they can to the market, even if it means to sacrifice some of their current offerings (17" PB is a good example).

Apple gets great press about everything they do, EXCEPT for the speed of their machines.

I am fully expecting 970 pm and pb's come the end of june.

[Abstract]

Originally posted by Jimmni
I don't think so. I think Apple needs to get themselves some new hype around these machines....... Extreme is rubbish, as is 64 (remember the N64? That worked well for it, huh?). Gx has bad connotations for many people. I think we can expect completely new names. Quite possibly changing even the PowerMac part. People see PowerMacs as slow. Apple doesn't want to stay stuck in the desktop rut, and a name change to something Apple-sounding but new would be a good idea, marketing wise.....


Sorry that I didn't have time to read beyond page 3, but I agree with this statement on page 2. :)

But lets not even call them Macintoshes. Lets just give them a new Apple name, like Royal Gala or Granny Smith. :cool: Anything with "X" or "Xtreme" is out --- sounds like the name of a new scent for a stupid deordorant company, like "Xtreme Avalanche".

Nothing that starts with "G" will be good. People associate bad things with G4, so G5 is not a great name.

Naming the processors with actual words, like AMD has the "Opteron" isn't good either. I never liked names like this because they didn't make any sense. What the hell is an opteron? This is why car companies are all going with the alpha-numerical names, like Nissan G35, Volvo S60, etc... This is probably the best way to go. How about S14, which relates to a 1.4GHz 970. This means that an S16 would correspond to a 1.6GHz IBM 970. The letter "S" naturally sounds good. :cool:

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by nagromme
...As for the 970 Macs themselves shipping--it would be great, but I find it JUST barely within the realm of possibility. Unlikely, but possible...


What makes you think that they are so unlikely? We know that they are coming. Rumors have been around for some time that the 970 chips have been ahead of schedule as they didn't end up having as much production difficulty as they first anticipated. Apple is certainly in a position to want to hustle these things to market ASAP. So why are they unlikely?


13...

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by pkradd
i seriously doubt it. These chips run too hot for use in portables.

What an utterly stupid, uneducated comment.

IF (yes, IF) Apple are to use the 970s in the Desktops then OF COURSE they'd use them in the Pro portables too.

Anything else would be plain ridiculous.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by noverflow
...
how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things
...

Okay, two points. First, the G4 is memory starved because of its FSB. The 970 won't be. So, even if they process Altivec instructions at the exact same speed, the 970 will still outperform the G4. (Granted, it may not be by the 2.5x factor that it sees elsewhere, but it will still outperform it.)

Second, while Altivec is great, I find it remarkable that people spend so much time complaining that the G4 isn't really as fast as the marketing hype makes it out to be because those marketing tests are done with extremely optomized Altivec code, and real world operations don't use Altivec that much. Then, along comes the 970 and now there are complaints that it won't outperform the G4 by as much in Altivec operations. You can't have it both ways...


12...

[MacWhispers]

I don't know what's up with my French rumor-brethren, but I just exchanged emails wiht my factory rep at the Taiwan plant where the 970 Power Macs really are being manufactured, and there are **not** any finished products at this time. All I can get is a verification that "at least one model is starting into production soon."

I don't know about MacBidioulle, but my guy actually works at the plant, and this info, while not as flamboyant as the French report, is actually accurate.

Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period.

[crossed-over]

Aren't Intel and AMD also making 64 bit processors? If so, does anybody know a timeframe when they will be put into use as compared to the 970 chips and this rumor?

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
I don't know what's up with my French rumor-brethren, but I just exchanged emails wiht my factory rep at the Taiwan plant where the 970 Power Macs really are being manufactured, and there are **not** any finished products at this time. All I can get is a verification that "at least one model is starting into production soon."

I don't know about MacBidioulle, but my guy actually works at the plant, and this info, while not as flamboyant as the French report, is actually accurate.

Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period.

Well that settles that then...:confused:

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by crossed-over
Aren't Intel and AMD also making 64 bit processors? If so, does anybody know a timeframe when they will be put into use as compared to the 970 chips and this rumor?

AMD Hammer will be out late fall...

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Well that settles that then...:confused:

Well, that means they'll still be produced really soon... and probably out by Sept... I really don't think a 970 computer will be shipped out without Panther on it anyways.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Balooba
I have two late-breaking news for ya:

1. The shipment of the 40000 970 chips are designated for the iPod production line. This will enable the users to browse through 3000+ songs in less than a second or play them at Fast Forward pace up to 2000 beats per minute!

2. The new 970 PowerMacs will have different names dependent on the market. The previous names were a disaster as for example "G4" means "prostitute" in Spanish with sales dropping significantly in for example Cuba. The new names (for four large European markets, I am not sure which) will be

ÜberMac
MacAroni
MacBeth
Freedom Mac

Funnily enough, for Washington DC the new name will be MacThePresidentIsAnEmptyWarHead

Ha ha...

:rolleyes:


11...

[Foxer]

Originally posted by Abstract
Nothing that starts with "G" will be good. People associate bad things with G4, so G5 is not a great name.

Naming the processors with actual words, like AMD has the "Opteron" isn't good either. I never liked names like this because they didn't make any sense. What the hell is an opteron? This is why car companies are all going with the alpha-numerical names, like Nissan G35, Volvo S60, etc... This is probably the best way to go. How about S14, which relates to a 1.4GHz 970. This means that an S16 would correspond to a 1.6GHz IBM 970. The letter "S" naturally sounds good. :cool:

Remember that "Pentium" simply resulted from the fact that after 286, 386, 486, etc. Intel wanted to make the 586 flashier, and "pent-" being the prefix for 5, one thing led to another. Now, however, even thought htey are on the contradictory Pentium IV (or whatever), they're locked into using the brand name Pentium becuase of their own success.

Apple doesn't have the success stigma. Nontheless, I don't think that your average computer buyer knows what a G4 is, or do they have any bad connotations associated with it. These are the target market Apple is looking for. Priro to switching a couple years back, I had no idea what a G3 or G4. My wife uses (and loves) our Macs every day, but if you said "G4" to her, she'd think you were playing Bingo.

In short, Mac COULD call the thing PowerMac G5, and no one (that matters) would be turned off by that. They could also call it "Butt Munch 970 X-treme to the MaXXX," just so long as they do a good job marketing it. That's the catch - they've got to make the average consumer think that there is some NEW reason to look at the Apple line-up.

[pgwalsh]

If the rumor is true, I'll be surprised. I can't imagine why any company would hold off sales of a product for a speech given at an event when they have stagnant sales on a current product line. I know that SJ likes the stage, but I would imagine he would call a press conference. No? What's more important to shareholders, his image, or sales?

If they were ready they could announce them and they would get press coverage...

Then at WWDC they could reiterate the product launch and bash wintel(maybe not). Then Apple could go over features of Panther. This would keep them in the press and keep the ball moving.

If they came out with everything at WWDC, it would seem that they blew their wad in once place. That would seem opposite of what they were trying to achieve earlier this year, which was a constant flow of announcements.

Panther is big enough for WWDC and a new Power Mac with a 970 would be big enough for it's own announcement. I could see Apple announcing Panther and then weeks after announcing the Power Mac. That would make sense. But sitting on potential sales for an announcement seems crazy for a business.

[3.1416]

Originally posted by nikfel
If Steve told us that this year is the year of the laptop then why would they introduce new powermacs with 970 processors

As I said before, people are taking this "year of the laptop" thing too seriously. Here's a possible timeline:

2002: IBM tells Apple they'll be shipping 970s in late summer of 2003. Apple realizes this means for most of next year they won't have competitive desktops.
Jan 2003: Apple rolls out Powerbook upgrades and declares 2003 the "year of the laptop", because that sounds a lot better than "our desktops are going to suck for most of this year". This isn't a huge shift in strategy, they're just making the best of a bad hand.
Feb/Mar 2003: IBM tells Apple that 970 development is going much better than predicted. and they'll be available in May or June. Apple swiftly rearranges their schedule to bring 970 towers to market as soon as possible

Apple doesn't *want* this to be the year of the laptop, they want every year to be the year of everything. There is no possible way they will deliberately hold off on 970 Macs because of something Steve said 5 months ago.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by rastalin94
...
What does this mean for the consumer, I could see 970’s in high end stuff as fast as possible and some new form of the G3 for everything else. And I think part of this will have nothing to do with Steve wanting to get the best technology into peoples hands as much as he just wants to get away from Motorola as fast as he came for what they did to Apple.


You know, you just gave me a thought. With all of the question about naming going on, and people wondering about the IBM G3 based iBooks, and the Moto G4 based iMac and eMac, several things just came together. If Apple were to rename their line based on processor number instead of G#, and were to drop Moto altogether as of the next revision of each of the products, then we might end up with something like:

Power Mac 970
PowerBook 970
iMac 750GX
eMac 750GX
iBook 750GX

The IBM processor numbers thus clearly distinguishing the lines and successfully moving away from the 'G' naming scheme. Hmm..... Just a thought.


10...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
23 June: two days after Harry Potter...


Alright! That means that Steve is really going to work some magic at the WWDC, right?
:D


9...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by nikfel
I only have one problem ok maybe more than one but anyway hear me out. If Steve told us that this year is the year of the laptop then why would they introduce new powermacs with 970 processors, this would remove all the hype from the portables and make it the year of the Powermacs not the laptops. If new Powermacs are released in a months time with 970 processors....then they would have to also update the powerbooks with likewise processors or else ot would not be the year of the laptop, right. Any way what I am trying to say i cannot decide what year it is...

1. year of the laptop
2. year of new powermacs (970)
3. year of new powermacs and laptops (both 970)
4. year of nothing

As others have said, I think that you're trying to hard to read into a statement that was really said as a marketing pitch. Apple didn't know how soon they'd be able to get the 970s to market, so in the interim they wanted to push their laptops.

Now, that said, I'm still hopeful that we will, in fact, see new 970 PowerBooks right along side the new 970 Power Macs at WWDC.


8...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
...
Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period.

At least according to your source. And how sure are you that your source is being completely upfront and honest with you?


7...

[Foxer]

watch that snowy river countdown fly to Zero!

[freundt]

Originally posted by Foxer
watch that snowy river countdown fly to Zero!

and what happens at the end of the countdown?

(making a small, but comfortable place to watch the explosion.)

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by commandZ
If it seems too good to be true, …

Let’s see, not only has IBM completed 970 production, but Apple has secretly assembled the computers, boxed and sealed! And only MacBibouille, from across the ocean, knows about it...

Has it occurred to anyone else that MacB might not be the only ones who know about it, but they're the only ones with the freedom to publish? I mean, hey, maybe that's why this is a Page 1 rumor instead of a Page 2 rumor.

Just a thought...


6...

[wilhelmd]

Originally posted by pimentoLoaf
23 June: two days after Harry Potter...
Exactly my thoughts! Two great things at once... I'm really looking forward to this summer.

Going from my Cube (450) with a way-oversized 23" Cinema Display (remember, it's only a GeForce 2-card) to a PPC 970, hopefully with a Radeon 9800 card (whishfull thinking) would be a change. My 30 GB iPod just arrived, I'm picking it up tomorrow (took 25 days to deliver it).

I'm probably going to New York this summer, anyone got any pointers on what places to check out [way OT, I know]?

and what happens at the end of the countdown?

(making a small, but comfortable place to watch the explosion.)
Duck an cover, people!

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Foxer
watch that snowy river countdown fly to Zero!

Well, what can I say, this thread has given me a lot to post about. I don't mind taking advantage of that fact...

Originally posted by freundt
and what happens at the end of the countdown?

(making a small, but comfortable place to watch the explosion.)

Well, no explosions. Just a brand new Avatar for me! :D


5...

[Mr. Anderson]

Ok SnowyRiver - you're close to 6502 and a 'tar - but that doesn't mean you have to respond to every post in this thread ;)

You could post one or two and discuss more than one post per thread.

D

[Abstract]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
I don't know what's up with my French rumor-brethren, but I just exchanged emails wiht my factory rep at the Taiwan plant where the 970 Power Macs really are being manufactured, and there are **not** any finished products at this time. All I can get is a verification that "at least one model is starting into production soon."

I don't know about MacBidioulle, but my guy actually works at the plant, and this info, while not as flamboyant as the French report, is actually accurate.

Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period.

I believe you.


And watching Snowy_River count down to zero is like watching paint dry. Its also quite strange.


10...

EDIT: Oops never mind. The countdown DOES serve a purpose. :) :p

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Ok SnowyRiver - you're close to 6502 and a 'tar - but that doesn't mean you have to respond to every post in this thread ;)

You could post one or two and discuss more than one post per thread.

D that doesn't bother me nearly as much as the counting down, which has been going on for like the last 60 posts at least. snowy, you'll have your icon whether you count or not, and people will resent it much less if you don't. take a tip from me. i didn't start spamming till after i got my 'tar :p :D ;)

[leo]

Originally posted by gotohamishOriginally posted by pkradd
i seriously doubt it. These chips run too hot for use in portables.

What an utterly stupid, uneducated comment.

IF (yes, IF) Apple are to use the 970s in the Desktops then OF COURSE they'd use them in the Pro portables too.

Anything else would be plain ridiculous.

How do you know? We still don't know if the 970 sports any power-saving features. IIRC, the most comprehensive description we have (the Ars Technica article) doesn't report any, and so doesn't the IBM white-paper. Thus, your logic is not compelling at all.
At least, I wouldn't expect a portable 970-based system soon.

[mangoman]

Originally posted by Snowy_River

7...

Counting down to a 'tar, are we, Snowy?

:D

[10 Goto 10]

I don't remember if the product was outsourced or done on site, but I thought all current powermacs sold in the USA were assembled in the USA. If Apple owned such a factory, wouldn't they be obligated to announce an expected factory closing to their shareholders? If assembly was outsourced, this wouldn't need to be announced.

[arn]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Has it occurred to anyone else that MacB might not be the only ones who know about it, but they're the only ones with the freedom to publish? I mean, hey, maybe that's why this is a Page 1 rumor instead of a Page 2 rumor.

Just a thought...


Well, it's a page 1 rumors because a lot of people are following MacBid's rumors with interest.

This is what I've heard (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030521023700.shtml)

The chips will fall where they may... :)

arn

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by 10 Goto 10
I don't remember if the product was outsourced or done on site, but I thought all current powermacs sold in the USA were assembled in the USA.

Ha, all 3 of the PowerBooks I've bought have been made in Taiwan - I would track them from Taiwan to Alaska to the Lower48, etc. I always assumed they were asembled overseas.

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by crossed-over
Aren't Intel and AMD also making 64 bit processors? If so, does anybody know a timeframe when they will be put into use as compared to the 970 chips and this rumor?

Intel 64-bit workstations, with 64-bit Windows XP or 64-bit Linux - just click on the "buy" button:

http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=433&FamilyId=1427

[Winston Smith]

Originally posted by Flowbee
I don't think the sales reps at Apple stores (or any other stores, for that matter) are informed about new product announcements, especially not a month in advance. I remember overhearing a sales rep in an Apple store advising a customer to "wait until Tuesday" before buying a new iPod... that was back in February! I think they get their "inside" information from the same place we do. ;)

I work for a major retail chain in the UK, trust me it just isn't done for the store staff to know detail before a major launch. All the NDA's in the world won't keep a launch from leeking.

The Apple store staff will know about upcoming product at the last possible moment and then only at certain level.

[Sun Baked]

:confused:

I'll wait until July before I start in on saying anything bad about MacPoodle and the ticks sucking the blood out of this dessicated corpse.

But this isn't the first time that "it's currently in production" has been yelled this year about some spiffy new Apple product ... only to crush our hopes and dreams on the rocks as we come crashing down to reality.

[DGFan]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly

The only thing that bothers me about this rumor is the X-factor -- 10.3. Maybe I've made a poor assumption, but I thought 10.3 was the minimum OS for the PPC 970 machines, and it's not even scheduled to be announced officially until WWDC. Is it possible Apple will also ship 10.3 in June? How else can these facts and rumors be reconciled?

An IBM rep was on record as saying that a 32 bit PPC OS would require a small number of minor code changes to run on the 970. It is likely very possible to run a modified version of 10.2 on the 970.

[10 Goto 10]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Ha, all 3 of the PowerBooks I've bought have been made in Taiwan - I would track them from Taiwan to Alaska to the Lower48, etc. I always assumed they were asembled overseas.

Note I said "powermac" not "powerbook" or "imac." I'm aware of where my powerbook is from. I think this issue could give a clue as to what is happening and how much credibility one should give to overseas motherboard AND tower assembly.

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by nikfel
I only have one problem ok maybe more than one but anyway hear me out. If Steve told us that this year is the year of the laptop then why would they introduce new powermacs with 970 processors, this would remove all the hype from the portables and make it the year of the Powermacs not the laptops. If new Powermacs are released in a months time with 970 processors....then they would have to also update the powerbooks with likewise processors or else ot would not be the year of the laptop, right. Any way what I am trying to say i cannot decide what year it is...

1. year of the laptop
2. year of new powermacs (970)
3. year of new powermacs and laptops (both 970)
4. year of nothing

The year of the latop statement ONLY mean that the laptop would have an incredible year at Apple. It has, nearly 50 of total sales. Laptops are also out pacing desktops on the PC side, IDG called it, yep, 'the year of the laptop'.

Steve's statement has NOTHING to do with Apple's desktops or the 970.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by IJ Reilly
Another "makes me wonder" factor about the upcoming WWDC: The rumors are in unusually strong alignment pointing towards some sort of 970 rollout at WWDC next month, but so far at least, Apple's PR department does not seem to be preparing for the media bash we might expect for such a big announcement. In fact when WWDC was rescheduled, I e-mailed Apple PR with a question about media access to the keynote, and received no reply. Granted, I'm not on the media "A" list, but if Apple is indeed preparing to announce and ship a major product, I'd assume they'd want the hall filled with scribblers, and not just the heavy-hitters (who will probably see it beforehand under and NDA anyway).

Just trying to test this rumor from all angles. I still firmly believe it's going to happen, but some of the pieces haven't quite fallen into place yet.

Interesting point. I think they may be trying to sort out reliable reporters from those that may use any information divuldged to them and spill it on a rumor site. Who knows. Not saying you are/aren't... but with something this big they don't want to even hint at it until it's sitting in our laps.

This next part is more of my general analysis. One thing _is_ certain... the 970 is coming. Look at the stock price. I think enough optimism is going around the big investors more than just the iTMS warrant. Granted, it's a HUGE benefit, but the 970 is also... and according to the big-name publications, it's just a matter of time.

The people that make a large volume stock move, like Apple, aren't people like me who have less than even a couple thousand shares... it's the big guys who get wind of something coming up. If you want an extra source for dirt, I suggest you check out investor forums such as finance.yahoo.com and finance.lycos.com. Obviously a lot of unconfirmable reports, but interesting reading from the daytraders.

[patmcfar8]

Heard from inside the Cuppertino thinktank...

IBM lackey: "OK, Steve, um sorry, Mr. Jobs, the 970's are ready to go. Do you want us to put them in the next revision of the PowerMac and have them ready for WWDC?"

Steve: "Hell yes! This is gonna be so freakin' sweet man, I can't wait to see the looks on... Oh *****! Wasn't it just a few months back when I said, "Year of the Laptop."

IBM lackey: "Um, ya but..."

Steve: "Dammit! Well, put the 970s in storage until January! We'll just put the latest G4's in the new PowerMacs. What is Motorola up to now, 1.5ghz? Maybe nobody will notice that Windows machines are twice as fast at half the price..." ;)

C'mon people! If IBM has the 970s ready ahead of schedule, Apple is going to use them as soon as freakin' possible. Plain and simple! PowerMac sales can't get any worse. Apple has no reason to wait... unless they want to release it at the same time as 10.3.

I don't know if they'll be ready by WWDC but here's to eternal optimism.

BTW, As crazy, loud and continuos as these 970 rumors have been, I wonder what Apple's take on them is...

"I can't believe all of this hype we're getting over the 970! Everybody's gonna be stoked to see them in June."

or

"Man did you see these crazy ass 970 rumors?! We are screwed when everybody finds out the 970 won't even be ready by Jan. there's gonna be mass rioting! Double up on Steve's security at WWDC!" ;)

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Intel 64-bit workstations, with 64-bit Windows XP or 64-bit Linux - just click on the "buy" button:

http://www.smb.compaq.com/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=433&FamilyId=1427

Well, you can buy a 64-bit Wintel machine, but they're not consumer grade. They run specialized apps in very small quantity. I think the 970 is much more prosumer oriented and will, obviously, run a vastly larger library of mainstream apps.

That isn't meant to knock the fact that we won't be the first to the plate with 64bit... but we certainly will be for consumers and prosumers. The performance will also be vastly improved to what we have now, no matter if we are a couple of percentage points behind Wintel in performance. Who cares, right? We get more done on a Mac because it's intuitive.

[nagromme]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
What makes you think that they are so unlikely?

I never said anything against the possibility of 970 Macs. In fact, I choose to be neither optimistic nor pessimistic, and guess that they'll be out in July or August. WWDC, however, seems unlikely to me--but would be great.

One possible basis for a false rumor: a few prototypes might be boxed up someplace for secret demos at (or even before) WWDC... and people could mistakenly think they were actual products.

Then again, if I was Apple, I'd wrap black plastic around boxes of bricks, stamp Top Secret on top, and stash them all over the planet just for fun :)

Misc replies:

970 in a PowerBook? That's what I'm waiting for, so I hope it's soon after the towers! But it wouldn't surprise me if PowerBooks stayed at G4 (but higher MHz) for a while: PowerBook G3s lasted quite a while after G4 PowerMacs were out. Dual CPUs sound practical too, at least in the 17": one of them (and its heavy-duty fan) would only run on wall power.

If the rumor is true by some miracle, why wait a month to ship them? Perhaps there are SOME boxed now, but Apple wants to have a LARGE supply stockpiled before they ship. Many criticize Apple for announcing a product before stocks are large. And a large stock would be good for the initial momentum.

Re iBooks: a new G3 with AltiVec added by IBM (as has beeen rumored) would simply be called a G4 by Apple. iBooks could move to G4 AND be Motorola-free. (Not that I think Motorola should be dropped just for spite, IF they have any chips of use to Apple's future.)

[zigi]

Who the hell clicks the Negative selection on the front page for a story like this? :confused:

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by leo
We still don't know if the 970 sports any power-saving features. IIRC, the most comprehensive description we have (the Ars Technica article) doesn't report any, and so doesn't the IBM white-paper.

Well, to be fair, can't that be done in software? I think the lack of a 15 inch powerbook is suspicious right now, but I'm m not sure what all of this means, per se.

[newworldempire]

I'm actually worried about these rumors, I get a new comp when I ship off to Guelph University but they run Linux there so if Yellow Dog or one of the other Red Hat ports dose not work on 64 bit 970's I'm gonna be forced to get a Wintel. (Insert PO'd Smiley)

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by zigi
Who the hell clicks the Negative selection on the front page for a story like this? :confused:

Trolls, neysayers, and the typical doomsday gents. There's always a couple that refuse to be happy about anything.

I, for one, will be happy if the 970's show up before August. If they are in June, I will mark this as a major turning point for Apple.

[ColoJohnBoy]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
I don't know what's up with my French rumor-brethren, but I just exchanged emails wiht my factory rep at the Taiwan plant where the 970 Power Macs really are being manufactured, and there are **not** any finished products at this time. All I can get is a verification that "at least one model is starting into production soon."

Kids, take a look at the original post. It says NOTHING about the PowerPC 970 machines being PowerMacs. As a matter of fact, I'm betting on experience and sheer simple intuition that the finished products awaiting shipment are 15.4" Aluminum PowerBooks, yes, complete with PPC 970 processors. Just a few days ago there was a rumor that the 15.4" PBs were finished and awaiting shipment. I think these two rumors complement one another.

As far as the PPC 970 needing Panther 10.3 in order to run properly, I bet we'll see the PowerBooks shipping with a patched version of 10.2.6 or even an exclusive 10.2.7. It wouldn't be available online as only these PowerBooks would utilize them. They may even ship with a beta version on Panther 10.3. Only time will tell.

Visit Blue Pudding!
http://bluepudding.1hwy.com

[wilhelmd]

Originally posted by zigi
Who the hell clicks the Negative selection on the front page for a story like this? :confused:
... Arthur Dent had been in some hell-holes in his life, but he had never before seen a spaceport which had a sign saying, `Even travelling despondently is better than arriving here.' To welcome visitors the arrivals hall featured a picture of the President of NowWhat, smiling. It was the only picture anybody could find of him, and it had been taken shortly after he had shot himself so although the photo had been retouched as well as could be managed the smile it wore was rather a ghastly one. The side of his head had been drawn back in in crayon. No replacement had been found for the photograph because no replacement had been found for the President. There was only one ambition which anyone on the planet ever had, and that was to leave.

[...]

Trading was mentioned in the brochure. The main trade that was carried out was in the skins of the NowWhattian boghog but it wasn't a very successful one because no one in their right minds would want to buy a NowWhattian boghog skin. The trade only hung on by its fingernails because there was always a significant number of people in the Galaxy who were not in their right minds....

Bottom line: They're insane

[Winston Smith]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Has it occurred to anyone else that MacB might not be the only ones who know about it, but they're the only ones with the freedom to publish? I mean, hey, maybe that's why this is a Page 1 rumor instead of a Page 2 rumor.

Just a thought...


6...

Not wanting to encourage Snowy to get to zero (or has he got there already!:rolleyes:) but I posted way back on page 2 (of this!) about the Think Secret cease and desist for iSync 1.1 and asked why Macoohlalah wasn't presented with one.
I'm sorry but I forget who corrected me but MacB is international and therefore not covered by the same legal difficulties Arn etc work under.

"Well, it's a page 1 rumors because a lot of people are following MacBid's rumors with interest.

This is what I've heard

The chips will fall where they may...

arn"

Arn's post from page 6 I think leaves us to make up our own minds.

As for Jack Cambells point of view (MacWhispers) that nothing has left the factory, well whilst I am beginning to believe his sources are generally accurate he assumes that XMacs are only being put together where he has sources...

Personally I'm looking forward to having some cash in July I've been waiting for since last year and the wait looks like a blessing....:D :cool: :)

[Dave K]

Originally posted by Foxer
Remember that "Pentium" simply resulted from the fact that after 286, 386, 486, etc. Intel wanted to make the 586 flashier, and "pent-" being the prefix for 5, one thing led to another.

Not exactly. A judge ruled that competitors (Like AMD and CYRIX), could use the x86 designation because numbers on their own weren't TM'able IIRC. This is why AMD could sell chips branded* as 386's and 486's.

Thus, Intel needed a new name they could trademark and use as a brand identifier to differentiate their product from everyone elses.

*note the word branded. Why AMD could make x86 compatable chips was an entirely different series of lawsuits...

[DGFan]

Originally posted by noverflow

MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.

how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things

for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.



The processor is not the only component on the motherboard. With a much faster memory bus and good cache it is easy to see why a 970 would be faster than a G4 even with the same Altivec unit running at the same internal clock.

So yes it IS VERY POSSIBLE and in fact VERY LIKELY given the info known from IBM.

In retrospect, CAPS do not make either of our arguments seem more persuasive (but what I said is still true)
:P

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by nagromme

...
970 in a PowerBook? That's what I'm waiting for, so I hope it's soon after the towers! But it wouldn't surprise me if PowerBooks stayed at G4 (but higher MHz) for a while: PowerBook G3s lasted quite a while after G4 PowerMacs were out. Dual CPUs sound practical too, at least in the 17": one of them (and its heavy-duty fan) would only run on wall power.
...

Yep, me too. Although, if they somehow manage to produce a speed-bumped G4 PowerBook, then I'd buy that, as I won't want to wait for another six months before getting one (I've got DVDs to burn! :D)

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Kids, take a look at the original post. It says NOTHING about the PowerPC 970 machines being PowerMacs. As a matter of fact, I'm betting on experience and sheer simple intuition that the finished products awaiting shipment are 15.4" Aluminum PowerBooks, yes, complete with PPC 970 processors. Just a few days ago there was a rumor that the 15.4" PBs were finished and awaiting shipment. I think these two rumors complement one another.

Oh, I hope you're right. I really would like to have a 970 PowerBook. Really...
(My money is burning a hole in my pocket...;) )

2...

[Frozone]

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Kids, take a look at the original post. It says NOTHING about the PowerPC 970 machines being PowerMacs. As a matter of fact, I'm betting on experience and sheer simple intuition that the finished products awaiting shipment are 15.4" Aluminum PowerBooks, yes, complete with PPC 970 processors. Just a few days ago there was a rumor that the 15.4" PBs were finished and awaiting shipment. I think these two rumors complement one another.

As far as the PPC 970 needing Panther 10.3 in order to run properly, I bet we'll see the PowerBooks shipping with a patched version of 10.2.6 or even an exclusive 10.2.7. It wouldn't be available online as only these PowerBooks would utilize them. They may even ship with a beta version on Panther 10.3. Only time will tell.

Visit Blue Pudding!
http://bluepudding.1hwy.com

You could be on to something or they could be totally new machines. A name:

Apple iCon

[arn]

Originally posted by Winston Smith

Arn's post from page 6 I think leaves us to make up our own minds.


Yep... everyone should take all rumors with a grain of salt.

Personally, I feel that 970 PowerMacs are coming... I think WWDC is very optimistic to have shipping machines, however. I do think we'll probably hear about the 970 chip at WWDC... as for when they will ship - I don't know... but knowing how manufacturing/product introductions have gone historically... I can't say I often remember anything ever shipping "early". :)


arn

[eric_n_dfw]

I have said before that maybe they'd just move to the Macintosh III, but people pointed out that, "nothing with a Roman numeral III will ever come out of Apple again." They may be right, but how about a Macintosh IV, considering that the "Power" series could be construed as the "III" series.

Naw - I still think they change to a completely different apple - my favorite is "Fuji" or "Golden Delicious"!
;)

If they want to be completely acurate, they should call it the NeXT Tower :D

[rog]

Originally posted by zigi
Who the hell clicks the Negative selection on the front page for a story like this? :confused:

I'd click it because I think this story is total bull. I guess we'll know for sure in a month.

[yzedf]

Originally posted by Foxer
Remember that "Pentium" simply resulted from the fact that after 286, 386, 486, etc. Intel wanted to make the 586 flashier, and "pent-" being the prefix for 5, one thing led to another. Now, however, even thought htey are on the contradictory Pentium IV (or whatever), they're locked into using the brand name Pentium becuase of their own success.

Apple doesn't have the success stigma. Nontheless, I don't think that your average computer buyer knows what a G4 is, or do they have any bad connotations associated with it. These are the target market Apple is looking for. Priro to switching a couple years back, I had no idea what a G3 or G4. My wife uses (and loves) our Macs every day, but if you said "G4" to her, she'd think you were playing Bingo.

In short, Mac COULD call the thing PowerMac G5, and no one (that matters) would be turned off by that. They could also call it "Butt Munch 970 X-treme to the MaXXX," just so long as they do a good job marketing it. That's the catch - they've got to make the average consumer think that there is some NEW reason to look at the Apple line-up.
"Pentium" was for trademark / copyright protection. It was Intel's way of trying to stave off the cloner market. Obviously it didn't work for very long...

[zeroaxs]

Originally posted by nagromme
I do expect Apple will show Panther and 970s at WWDC--maybe in secret with NDA.

I do NOT think Panther could possibly ship so soon.

As for the 970 Macs themselves shipping--it would be great, but I find it JUST barely within the realm of possibility. Unlikely, but possible.

They could ship without Panther, as long as performance in Jaguar was still impressive. I'd expect a free coupon for Panther in the box--it would enable the full 64-bit computing that was unavailable at first. (But 64-bit is not primarily a speed issue, so our current software may well run fantastically on a re-compiled 32-bit Jaguar for 970.)

Name suggestions:

Power Macintosh X5

or
Macintosh X5

It's not a BMW, it's a Macintosh

[Winston Smith]

Originally posted by arn
Yep... everyone should take all rumors with a grain of salt.

Personally, I feel that 970 PowerMacs are coming... I think WWDC is very optimistic to have shipping machines, however. I do think we'll probably hear about the 970 chip at WWDC... as for when they will ship - I don't know... but knowing how manufacturing/product introductions have gone historically... I can't say I often remember anything ever shipping "early". :)


arn

I can't say I ever remember anything shipping early:(
This is the year of the Powerbook and Apple was alledgedly planning a major ad for the 2004 Superbowl.
Mybe the 970 will ship early but 6 months:o
Perhaps WWDC will provide early developer beta machines under strict NDA's with Panther.
All this is just fun until Arn posts a report on Page 1 with the Apple logo alongside.

[zeroaxs]

Originally posted by noverflow
Time to inject some logic into this thread!

Opteron SUCKS
Yes, that is right. it is not faster than even the xeons right now... how do i know? look at www.tomshardware.com for quite some time now that have had info on real running ones.

SO WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO PUT ONE IN A MAC??????


MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.

how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things

for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.

What we are doing with the wide spread over kill will kill apple WHEN it is not as fast as we say.

We are loving apple to the point that we are the ones who will cause its death.

Actually, you may want to do all your homework before you spout off. Check out http://www.arstechnica.com and read the articles on the performance of the 970 and you will see that they are indeed VERY powerful chips

[3.1416]

Originally posted by patmcfar8
C'mon people! If IBM has the 970s ready ahead of schedule, Apple is going to use them as soon as freakin' possible. Plain and simple!
Exactly.

BTW, As crazy, loud and continuos as these 970 rumors have been, I wonder what Apple's take on them is...
As do I. Apple has been known to preemptively deny rumors of new hardware at upcoming events, and they haven't here. That's obviously very circumstantial evidence, but then so is everything else...

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
...
Naw - I still think they change to a completely different apple - my favorite is "Fuji" or "Golden Delicious"!
;)
...

Oh, hey, how about bringing colors back? They could have two different colors available for the Power Macs, red and yellow. Then, they could call these the Red Delicious and the Golden Delicious. What do you think? :D :p


1...

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Oh, hey, how about bringing colors back? They could have two different colors available for the Power Macs, red and yellow. Then, they could call these the Red Delicious and the Golden Delicious. What do you think? :D :p


1...

Don't think so, with the pro line all clad in metal I'm thinking that will continue. But it is odd that no one has been providing images or at least ideas on what the new designs will be.

There was a ton of activity with the last revision when we got the mirrors....

D

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Winston Smith

All this is just fun until Arn posts a report on Page 1 with the Apple logo alongside.

I couldn't agree more, and it's really good to keep that perspective. We really don't know when these things are going to come.

For example, I'm waiting to buy a new 15" PowerBook. Yes, I'd really like it to be a 970 machine, but if, when it is released, it's a 1.25GHz G4, I won't complain. (Now, if it's still just a 1GHz G4, I might complain a little... ;) )

These discussions are good for entertainment, but too often people take them way too seriously. I think keeping a cool head and a bit of faith in Apple to do the best they can goes a long way...

[Winston Smith]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Don't think so, with the pro line all clad in metal I'm thinking that will continue. But it is odd that no one has been providing images or at least ideas on what the new designs will be.

There was a ton of activity with the last revision when we got the mirrors....

D

Maybe we've all given up on Spymacs photoshop/lifestyle site

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Don't think so, with the pro line all clad in metal I'm thinking that will continue. But it is odd that no one has been providing images or at least ideas on what the new designs will be.

There was a ton of activity with the last revision when we got the mirrors....

D

Really, it was a joke. I would certainly hope that Apple would never do something as silly as that...

I mean, the next thing you know they'll start offering the iMac in different colors named after different fruit. Honestly. ;)

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
Oh, hey, how about bringing colors back? They could have two different colors available for the Power Macs, red and yellow. Then, they could call these the Red Delicious and the Golden Delicious. What do you think? :D :p


1... No!!!! Not colors!:eek:

[Ture]

All what they (www.macbidouille.com) do is that they make fun off all Apple and 970 believers. It's french humor - making fun of Americans and everything that comes from the states.

Wake up - it's not a rumor - it's a humor!

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by rastalin94
My point is that you do not ****** with Steve, and Motorola basically bent Apple over and put it where the sun don’t shine. Because of this it would not surprise me if in one keynote Apple has dropped Motorola all at once. This seems like something Steve would do. Lay quiet, and than cut the cord with Motorola all at once.

Ineterstingly, at the previous earnings conference call, Fred Anderson (or was it Steve?) said they are aware of the speed issue and that there will be a time and place for an annoucement of their relationship with Motorola.

Note that he didn't say the 970 was coming, per se, but that he said it was about Motorola. Hmmm.

I think you're right, my friend!

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
I don't know what's up with my French rumor-brethren, but I just exchanged emails wiht my factory rep at the Taiwan plant where the 970 Power Macs really are being manufactured, and there are **not** any finished products at this time. All I can get is a verification that "at least one model is starting into production soon."

I don't know about MacBidioulle, but my guy actually works at the plant, and this info, while not as flamboyant as the French report, is actually accurate.

Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period.

Could one source be accidentaly reporting on rumors of the 970 when it is actually a different machien alltogether? Maybe a 20th anniversary mac? I know it's a year early, but who knows?

[mangoman]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Could one source be accidentaly reporting on rumors of the 970 when it is actually a different machien alltogether? Maybe a 20th anniversary mac? I know it's a year early, but who knows?

MAYBE a freaky quick Apple PDA! Huh? Huh? Huh?

:p

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Could one source be accidentaly reporting on rumors of the 970 when it is actually a different machien alltogether? Maybe a 20th anniversary mac? I know it's a year early, but who knows? I'm presuming you mean a 20th Aniversary of the Mac Mac - as opposed to the "20th Aniversary Mac" (http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/20th_mac/index.html) :p

[PretendPCuser]

and if they keep the G4 in the lineup as the entry level (wouldn't happen, mobo issues, unless they had plenty of extra mobos lying around) they should color it a nice green and call it a Granny Smith.

All i can say about the 970 is, that with all the buzz on here, i can imagine the orders that will be flying once Apple announces one.

Ciao!:D

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Well, you can buy a 64-bit Wintel machine, but they're not consumer grade. They run specialized apps in very small quantity. I think the 970 is much more prosumer oriented and will, obviously, run a vastly larger library of mainstream apps.

A vastly larger library of 32-bit mainstream apps, plus someday a few specialized apps in very small quantity!

[shadowfax]

can you not run 32 bit windows apps in windows xp 64 bit edition? i'd just assumed you could.

[Bengt77]

Originally posted by aasmund
Where do you have this from? how can you be sure?

Some other ideas:


* PowerMac Pro
* PowerMac G5
* PowerMac 64
* PowerMac 970 <- not likely i think
* PowerMac Ultra <- not likely i think

I think 64 or g5 are most likely, but I don't know anything...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The successor to the current crop of Power Macs will not carry the 'Power' name anymore. The new line will be called the xMacs, and consequently the successor to the current PowerBook will be called the xBook. See the lowercase x as opposed to the uppercase one in the Xserve's name? It's name will probably changed alongside with the two (former) Power computers; it'll still be the Xserve, but then the xServe. Leaves some room for an iServe (maybe with IBM's PPC750GX or Gobi processor).

:o

(Or, as my girlfriend would say: Pfah!)

(Does this all even remotely make any sense? Well, to me it does. I just hope they drop the 'Power' names.)

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
can you not run 32 bit windows apps in windows xp 64 bit edition? i'd just assumed you could.

Yes, they'll run - but the performance is poor compared to 64-bit apps. An Itanium is not a general purpose desktop - you'll only want one if you've got a particular 64-bit app that you want to run on it.

This is one nice thing about the PPC970 rumours - if Apple does use it - the 970 will be able to run both 32-bit and 64-bit apps at virtually the same speed (most of the time, a 32-bit app will probably be slightly faster than the same code ported to 64-bit).

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Bengt77
I've said it before and I'll say it again. The successor to the current crop of Power Macs will not carry the 'Power' name anymore. The new line will be called the xMacs, and consequently the successor to the current PowerBook will be called the xBook. See the lowercase x as opposed to the uppercase one in the Xserve's name? It's name will probably changed alongside with the two (former) Power computers; it'll still be the Xserve, but then the xServe. Leaves some room for an iServe (maybe with IBM's PPC750GX or Gobi processor).

:o

(Or, as my girlfriend would say: Pfah!)

(Does this all even remotely make any sense? Well, to me it does. I just hope they drop the 'Power' names.) I too hope they drop the "Power" names, but I don't like the "x" names either - like others have said, t sounds too much like the XBox.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Yes, they'll run - but the performance is poor compared to 64-bit apps. An Itanium is not a general purpose desktop - you'll only want one if you've got a particular 64-bit app that you want to run on it. this is only natural, as they don't take advantage of the extra 32 bits, but how do they compare to 32 bit chips at the same clock rate? isn't it fairly similar or is it worse?

[Tim Flynn]

With the rate that this discussion is building at, I have to think of the backlash if Apple doesn't bring out the 970 at WWDC.

The Opteron sucks .... NO
The Opteron and the 970 will make the Itaniums (Itanics :D ) look like a poor design.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Tim Flynn
With the rate that this discussion is building at, I have to think of the backlash if Apple doesn't bring out the 970 at WWDC. this thread is actually growing at a fairly normal rate... apple doesn't care :(

[charley]

MacWhispers' source reckons that no new boxes are ready to go from where they are, but presumably machines are built at more than one location. My G4 400 was assembled in Ireland (as for the component parts who knows). Maybe MacB's sources are of european origin. Just a thought.
charley

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
this is only natural, as they don't take advantage of the extra 32 bits, but how do they compare to 32 bit chips at the same clock rate? isn't it fairly similar or is it worse? Quick web search turns up the following:
[list=1] Windows XP 64 Bit Edition will run 32 bit software (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/64bit/evaluation/top5.asp)
The Itanium runs 32 bit code very slowly, but is working on software to speed it up to as fast as a similarly clocked XEON (http://news.zdnet.co.uk/story/0,,t275-s2133770,00.html)
AMD's x86-64 ISA will run 32 bit code as fast as a similarly clocked Athlon (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/03q1/x86-64/x86-64-4.html) (on a 64 bit OS)
[/list=1]

[fiardinkum]

If Apple are shipping PPC 970 based macs then that may not be the only treat in store. What goes down really well with a shiny new 64 bit processor? A 64 bit OS, of course! Could Panther also be sealed in those mystery boxes too? If uncle Steve thinks that it's now the right time to take the dust covers off the old cube and give it a lick of new, 64 bit paint then my check book is ready and waiting!!!

[MetallicPenguin]

This is huge! This is going to be extremely awesome. And I'll be near SoHo the weekend of around that time, and I can start questioning the people who work there:p By the way I didn't read the past posts, so this isn't remotely on topic I would think

[aasmund]

Originally posted by Foxer
Remember that "Pentium" simply resulted from the fact that after 286, 386, 486, etc. Intel wanted to make the 586 flashier, and "pent-" being the prefix for 5, one thing led to another. Now, however, even thought htey are on the contradictory Pentium IV (or whatever), they're locked into using the brand name Pentium becuase of their own success.

This is not true. The reason they changed to pentium is that numbers cannot be trademarked, that's why....

[nagromme]

Simplest name possible: Mac 5.

Nobody will know just what it means and what "the other 4" were, but they'll know it's one beyond "G4" and it's new and simple!

And Apple names its processors whatever they like. The Mac 5 could thus contain a Mac 5 CPU, or an M5, or a G5, or an M970, or a PowerMac70, or... whatever.

And they should hype "the world's first 64-bit personal computer" just because they can. Along with the speed, of course. True, the two aren't a direct connection, but it "sounds" good--just like MHz #s "sound" good on Wintel. It's all marketing, but if it works... it may sell Macs better than the REAL detailed benefits of the new models, which the average consumer will never bother to understand. The experts who DO understand will ignore the marketing spin anyway, and just buy their new Macs.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by nagromme
Simplest name possible: Mac 5.

Nobody will know just what it means and what "the other 4" were, but they'll know it's one beyond "G4" and it's new and simple!

And Apple names its processors whatever they like. The Mac 5 could thus contain a Mac 5 CPU, or an M5, or a G5, or an M970, or a PowerMac70, or... whatever.

And they should hype "the world's first 64-bit personal computer" just because they can. Along with the speed, of course. True, the two aren't a direct connection, but it "sounds" good--just like MHz #s "sound" good on Wintel. It's all marketing, but if it works... it may sell Macs better than the REAL detailed benefits of the new models, which the average consumer will never bother to understand. The experts who DO understand will ignore the marketing spin anyway, and just buy their new Macs. Yeah - and they could have "Fly Away" from Lenny Kravitz's "5" CD as the theme for their ad's. (Showing it downloaded from iTMS of course!)
Somebody needs to photoshop this up -->http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000J8XI.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[mcl]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw

Yeah - and they could have "Fly Away" from Lenny Cravitz's "5" CD as the theme for their ad's. (Showing it downloaded from iTMS of course!)





Oh, I don't know. The DJ Keoki "pr0n mix" of the Speed Racer theme would be ...amusing. Mac 5 == Mach V. :D

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by mcl
Oh, I don't know. The DJ Keoki "pr0n mix" of the Speed Racer theme would be ...amusing. Mac 5 == Mach V. :D How about Elton John, The Bitch is Back? :eek:

[barkmonster]

MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.

how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things

for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.

bandwidth is always quoted in 1000ths of a Gb/s rather than 1024ths as you'd expect. For comparison :

Altivec @ 1.4Ghz : ((128 x 1400)/8) / 1000 = 22.4Gb/s

FSB of PPC970 : (((32 x 2 x 400) / 8 ) / 1000) x 2 = 6.4Gb/s

FSB of G4 : ((64 x 167) / 8) / 1000 = 1.3Gb/s

The PPC970 can supply over 4 times the bandwidth of the G4, altivec is practically choking on a G4. add a second CPU into the mix and you're effectively doubling the bandwidth requirements of altivec and halving the available bandwidth to the cpus. I believe a single 970 will blow a dual G4 of the same clockspeed out of the water just based on bandwidth alone.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by barkmonster

The PPC970 can supply over 4 times the bandwidth of the G4, altivec is practically choking on a G4. add a second CPU into the mix and you're effectively doubling the bandwidth requirements of altivec and halving the available bandwidth to the cpus. I believe a single 970 will blow a dual G4 of the same clockspeed out of the water just based on bandwidth alone. Is it just me or haven't you, I and just about everyone been saying this for years?!?! (The fact that the G4 is bandwidth strangled that is)

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by moyashi
:D Here's my shot at what's happening.

We're gonna see a whole 970 family. I wonder that there while be a family name change too ... however I doubt that.

The megahertz posted here and there I agree with since it makes sense.

I see 970 15" powerbooks too. Hey, where are they already? Probably a boost in the 17" and 12" versions too. dual??? hehe, I wish.


I will be very happy if there is a single version of any 970 machine even with a pre "64 bit clean" mobo. Even for a week after DevCon.

The mac II was a dinosaur by any objective standard but was a bridge machine to the future despite it.

Rocketman.

[FijiBoy]

How can anyone take this claim seriously? Apple runs a "just-in-time" manufacturing process with one of the industry's shortest inventory storage times (I believe only Dell is any better). They try not to build computers more than seven days out from sale.

The units are assembled at factories (mostly in Asia) and then air-freighted in racks (ie unboxed) to distribution points where they are boxed and whatever localisation needs are included (eg keyboards, power cords and modems differ from country to country).

Apple does a global release of new equipment ie all countries get their hand on new gear at the same time. So there would need to be sealed boxes in around a dozen warehouses worldwide.

In addition sealed boxes would indicate that whatever software was in the box was finalised.

All of the above mean one simple thing - there are NOT new towers sitting in boxes in some warehouse waiting to go.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
Again: There are no finished/packed Power Mac 970's in existence at this time. Period.

So Apple uses only one fabrication plant?

[MacWhispers]

Originally posted by FijiBoy
How can anyone take this claim seriously? Apple runs a "just-in-time" manufacturing process with one of the industry's shortest inventory storage times (I believe only Dell is any better). They try not to build computers more than seven days out from sale.

FijiBoy: Glad to see someone here who knows the Apple distribution process. Your accurately described process is why I snickered out loud when I first read this MacBidoule joke; aside from info from my own sources, just knowing Apple's methods flatly makes these claims impossible, at face value.

I have suspected that the editor of MacBidioulle has been intentionally spoofing and flaming the PPC 970 rumors, just for fun and games... as **NONE** of their past five or six published reports jives at **ALL** with what my own daily, very-real human contacts in Taiwan have been telling me about PPC 970 based Macs.

If you'll look back about 5-weeks, you'll see that the day followingmy MacWhispers report that PPC 970 productionwas surprisingly ahead of schedule, MB published a hauntingly similar piece, but with a number of "details" added as flourish. Since that time, the site has just been cranking up the intensity of the 970 drumbeat.

If anyone's really interested in first-person supplied info, from a Mac guy who's just trying to share what he knows, here's the reality:

1. 90% Confidence level: The next PowerBook is indeed going to sport a PPC 970, and have a specially built 15.4" LCD from ChiMei at a resolution higher than 1280x800

2. 90% Confidence level: The next Power Macs are still being referred to as "Power Macs" by everyone in the OEM channel, and are coming with PPC 970 chips, as well. They will have a completely new case desing, but still following the silver/gray/clear muted color schemes of recent pro machines, and will have an (at least substantially) aluminum front panel

3. 95% Confidence level: Both the Powerbook and new Power Macs are entering the production cycle "soon," whatever the hell that means.

I plan on still being around next year, and afterwards, and truly don't want to see what little reputation I've earned get fried right here and now, so I am being excrutiatingly cautious in what I report here, and on MacWhispers.

Take it for what you will.

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
Take it for what you will.

With all due respect, I think that's exactly what some of us are doing.

I take it we all understand Apple's commitment to inventory management. Apple is no different then any other company in that respect. But some of us also quite well remember the pain, embarrassment and lost sales they experienced by not having enough G4 iMacs to sell when the product was hot. Do you really think they want to commit that blunder again?

Simple fact: new products and products in the pipeline follow different inventory rules -- not just at Apple, but especially at Apple.

I've said it before and I'll say it again -- you can easily reality-check any rumor by asking yourself the simple question: What must Apple do to survive? In this case, they have to get these suckers out the door, they have to do it soon, they have to accompany it with a big splash, and most of all, they must have the product ready for customers to buy when the big splash happens, not months later.

Honestly, I think we often make this analysis way more completed then need be. A little applied good sense goes a long way, IMO.

[Hattig]

Originally posted by noverflow
Time to inject some logic into this thread!

Opteron SUCKS
Yes, that is right. it is not faster than even the xeons right now... how do i know? look at www.tomshardware.com for quite some time now that have had info on real running ones.


Decent reviews (i.e., not Toms Hardware) have the Opteron competing very well and beating dual Xeons that are each running 1GHz faster than the Opteron. Opteron also is currently running at 1.8GHz max, but on the current process can scale to 2.4GHz or more, when AMD release the chips over the course of the next year. Intel's main performance increase for this year is upping the FSB of the P4 to 800MHz, which isn't valid for the Xeons because of the shared bus topology which will restrict the top bus speed for dual setups to 533MHz still. Until Intel get 90nm working, I doubt you will see many faster processors that 3.2GHz this year.


SO WHY WOULD YOU EVER WANT TO PUT ONE IN A MAC??????


Certainly not for the architecture. A Mac will never use x86 chips of any form, I reckon, but not because of any perceived lack of power - x86 processors these days are very powerful.


MacBidouille is WRONG.
possibly not about this, but about how powerfull they are.

how do i know?
look at IBM's specs for the chip.
do the math, and see that the 970 is not faster then the g4 for altivec things

for non altivec it is 2.5x faster, but still slower than altivec enhanced code...
knowing this, it is not possible that a single 1.4 970 would be faster at altivec enhanced code than a dual 1.4 g4. IT IS JUST NOT POSSIBLE given the known info from IBM.


Altivec on current G4's is crippled by the lack of bandwidth from main memory, even worse in dual configurations where each processor is sharing that 1.3GB/s of bandwidth. At high speeds, the G4 is a very unbalanced processor in terms of processing power vs. memory bandwidth.

The 970 has 6.4GB/s of bandwidth - that is seriously going to be able to feed a lot more data to the altivec units.

Hence a single 1.8GHz 970 is most likely going to run as fast as a dual 1.4GHz G4, even running Altivec algorithms.

[mim]

Originally posted by Ture
Wake up - it's not a rumor - it's a humor!

No no - it's a TUMOR!

A big fat cancerous brain rumor tumor that's effecting our ability to think rationally. It's not humor. It's a conspiracy created by zoomer baby-boomers to destroy our....

....mojo?

<...quietly curls up over the keyboard and goes insane - and there's still another 8 pages of this thread to get through...>

[maraczc]

According to another rumors site, IBM has confirmed that production of the new proccessors will not even begin until late June. Just to add another side to this discussion.

[Cubeboy]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
this is only natural, as they don't take advantage of the extra 32 bits, but how do they compare to 32 bit chips at the same clock rate? isn't it fairly similar or is it worse?

An application that has outgrown a 32-bit computing environment or require larger amounts of memory than 32 bit computing can offer or high precision arithmatics will run faster in 64 bit. These include large databases (larger memory allocations/user, large file implementation, reduced swapping), decision support (direct addressing ,large file implementation, reduced swapping), and technical applications (high precision arithmatic, reduced swapping).

32 bit applications will perform better staying as a 32 bit binary (unless it can take advantage of a specific 64 bit feature) since more of the application fits into the system's cache. When a 32-bit application is recompiled to 64 bits, the 64-bit binary will be significantly larger. Performance will therefore decrease due to the greater number of cache misses when running the 64-bit binary.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Snowy_River

[ ... implied "0 ..." ... ]


Woohoo! Snowy got his avatar!

So, you think macRumors posting volume will now decrease to its normal level again?

:)

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Shadowfax
this is only natural, as they don't take advantage of the extra 32 bits, but how do they compare to 32 bit chips at the same clock rate? isn't it fairly similar or is it worse?

Significantly worse.

This is why Opteron et al are getting so much buzz: you don't pay for 64-bit capability with 32-bit speed.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Significantly worse.

This is why Opteron et al are getting so much buzz: you don't pay for 64-bit capability with 32-bit speed.
apparently, whether it's worse or similar depends a lot on the processor. the opteron you cited does do much worse.

[bertagert]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
I have suspected that the editor of MacBidioulle has been intentionally spoofing and flaming the PPC 970 rumors, just for fun and games... as **NONE** of their past five or six published reports jives at **ALL** with what my own daily, very-real human contacts in Taiwan have been telling me about PPC 970 based Macs.

If anyone's really interested in first-person supplied info, from a Mac guy who's just trying to share what he knows, here's the reality:

The problem with you Macwhispers aka Power Jack aka Jack Cambell, is you really don't have much clout either. Remember when you were on spymac and did the whole alabama bob thing? Or the time you bought a domain name and pointed it to apple.com as a hoax?

That's my beef with you. I actually hope this turns out to be true. Then maybe you'll get discredited. Meaning, you may not have said that this isn't true, its that your "contacts" aren't in the know and that means neither are you. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just still have problems with your alabama bob thing.

Maybe I should just let it go?

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Woohoo! Snowy got his avatar!

So, you think macRumors posting volume will now decrease to its normal level again?

:)

:D

Honestly, this hasn't been that dissimilar to my usual volume. I tend to post in spurts. When I come across a thread that has lots of posts already (like this one had something like 80 posts already when I started reading it), I tend to post a lot of replies. (I do try to double up replies when it seems appropriate.)

Anyway... Thanks!

[zeroaxs]

Originally posted by MacWhispers
FijiBoy: Glad to see someone here who knows the Apple distribution process. Your accurately described process is why I snickered out loud when I first read this MacBidoule joke; aside from info from my own sources, just knowing Apple's methods flatly makes these claims impossible, at face value.

Take it for what you will.

OK, a J-I-T manufacturing system for custom machines makes sense, but how about the pre-manufactured ones that they have to ship to retail and wholesalers? Those have to be manufactured well before the initial rollout of the machine to ensure that there is quantity enough to supply the different chains that sell Apple products.

[Snowy_River]

Originally posted by nagromme
...
an M5...

"M5 tie-in"
"M5"
"M5, this is Daystrom."
"Daystrom, acknowledged."
"M5, do you know me?"
"Daystrom, Richard, originator of Contronic DuoTronic Systems. Born..."
"Stop. M5, your attack on the starships is wrong. You must break it off."
"Programming includes protection against attack. Enemy vessels must be neutralized."
"But these are not enemy vessels..."

Okay, okay, maybe we're not quite up to that M5. :p

[job]

Originally posted by Snowy_River
What makes you think that they are so unlikely? We know that they are coming. Rumors have been around for some time that the 970 chips have been ahead of schedule as they didn't end up having as much production difficulty as they first anticipated. Apple is certainly in a position to want to hustle these things to market ASAP. So why are they unlikely?

Eh, not to rain on your parade, but didn't we "know" the G5 was coming too? ;) :p

I'd sure like to see a 970 based Mac this summer, but we also have to remember that these are rumors, not facts. Yes the chip exists. For IBM servers, not Apple Macs.

[beatle888]

this is bs, for one, what happened to apple realising products once ready? if thats the case then why arent they shipping now?

secondly, if apple was this close to releasing a 970, they would have announced it....even though supposedly the new trend is for them to release once ready, i dont see them following this sticking to it. look what they did with the 17 laptops. theres no way apple is going to stock pile these machines THEN make the announcement.

[Sol]

Originally posted by Balooba
The previous names were a disaster as for example "G4" means "prostitute" in Spanish with sales dropping significantly in for example Cuba.

I thought the word was 'puta'. I am not a Spanish speaker but anyone would know that. Get your facts right before you satirize anything.

[bertagert]

Originally posted by beatle888
look what they did with the 17 laptops. theres no way apple is going to stock pile these machines THEN make the announcement.

I bet they don't want that mistake to happen again. Plus, wouldn't it be best if they had these to ship right now? That way their sales would be immediate. I think Apple wants a faster machine out there asap! If they have it, they'll bring it out. I highly doubt people will wait for months again. Didn't we have to wait for the 1.42 ghz as well as the 17" PB? People are tired of these waits and Apple knows it!

If the 970 is true to form and carries good speed, a ton of people will be buying. Apple will want these in everyone's hands with such a big transition as soon as they announce them.

Now, lets just hope its true.

Fingers Crossed - X

[mathiasr]

Originally posted by beatle888
theres no way apple is going to stock pile these machines THEN make the announcement.
They may have learned from their mistakes.
The G4 introduction was a disaster, the 500 MHz could not be fabed, 3 months later they had to slow down the entire product line by 50 MHz.

[beatle888]

well i HOPE more power is coming to the mac. I SICK and tired of AE's looking at me like IM the bottle neck. even the dual gigs with osx lags too much. i really hate waiting five seconds here or ten seconds there for the stupid beach ball of death to stop spinning when im trying to kick some ass.

i really really really thought about how a pc would do the job ALL DAY TODAY. that SUCKS. i need a system that can keep up damn it.

[The Ancients]

Originally posted by arn

Personally, I feel that 970 PowerMacs are coming... I think WWDC is very optimistic to have shipping machines, however. I do think we'll probably hear about the 970 chip at WWDC... as for when they will ship - I don't know... but knowing how manufacturing/product introductions have gone historically... I can't say I often remember anything ever shipping "early". :)


arn

Motorola - shipping early......shipping early - Motorola. It just doesn't go to together, does it?

IBM - shipping early......shipping early - IBM.

aahhhh, now that's better :)

[nagromme]

IBM - shipping early......shipping early - IBM.

Sounds good to me!

Actually, didn't the original G4 Macs actually ship MONTHS earlier than expected?

I swear that the rumor sites were all saying that the G4 was having problems, and wouldn't be out until the following YEAR! And then, in the midst of that doom and gloom, Apple shipped the PowerMac G4, using a chip that supposedly didn't even exist yet in final form. Macintoshes became supercomputers, PCs fell behind in the benchmarks, and Apple ran the "weapon" ad with the tanks. Am I crazy to remember it that way?

(Not that the G4 anecdote tells us much about today--I still doubt the 970 is ready--I'm just curious whether I recall correctly. I know there WERE some actual G4 delays first--but then didn't Apple surpsise us?)

[VIREBEL661]

I don't get much time to surf rumor sites other than this one... Have any of you heard stuff corroborating all the stuff that MacBidouille has been saying? I DO understand Apple not saying anything though - it would undercut any present sales. I imagine they'll stay tight lipped until the new products are ready to ship, or even until the old ones are sold out.

[maradong]

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Well if this is true and MacBidouille's specs on the IBM 970 are to be believed, well, this is going to be fantastic.

I just hope they offer duals, but given that a single 1.8 GHz 970 is faster than the dual 1.43 G4, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't offer them immediately. That way they can sell more units in the first offering of the new machines (having more processors available and not putting 2 in all the boxes). And then in September with Panther they'd offer duals when IBM has had a chance to make more.

D
true.
also i hope to see the ppc in a notebook. i am not interested in which one. I just want to see it. perhaps in the new 15.4 but it is very improbable, i know .(

[macnews]

From what I have read in press and rumors sites, Apple's problems in the past with supply have come in two forms - the biggest being from Motorola. The G5 DID come in to production but what many of the rumor sites ended up reporting on were for stats on a G5 used in cell phones - not one ever intended for desktop computers. Later, even these became "proof" that a G5 was very close to ready and just "had" to be shipping soon. Now if we are talking about an IBM chip things might be different. Does anyone know IBM's recent status with on-time shipping? Since they use/plan to use the 970 in their own products I would think JIT processing would allow for many of these chips to be available. This, however, leads to Apple's other "delay".

Apple also seems to delay things to move their inventory out of the current supply chain. So perhaps we will see the 970 previewed at WWDC but no official announcement until MacWorld. I would love to see a 970 for purchase, even if I had to wait a month, at WWDC. Maybe with all the new Apple retail stores they can move out the "older" G4's to newer switchers or mac users that don't read the rumor sites!

Just thought about this...
Perhaps we will see a shipping 970 machine at WWDC. If Apple is going with the 970 there should be BIG fan fare - which will mean benchmarks, and not the kind mentioned here. Normal benchmarks usually included comparison software results. Wasn't it just back in March when the rumors were not to expect Quark 6.0 until July and maybe get it by Aug/Sept? Now, it appears Quark is ready to go at WWDC and not just previewing. They have already done previews and the press from Quark leads me to think they will do more than just "preview" 6.0 at WWDC. Perhaps Steve called and said "Hey, we are going to be introducing a major hardware change and we want you on board. Deadline is WWDC, which I can move back to end of June if you need more time." Wouldn't a benchmark showing Quark 6.0 in OS 10.3 kicking XP's ass be a big seller?! Again from Steve - "Not only do we have a 970, I'm happy to say Quark is officially 10 native - so why not upgrade now! And look at how much faster they both are!"

I can dream can't I!

[NuVector]

Originally posted by zeroaxs
OK, a J-I-T manufacturing system for custom machines makes sense, but how about the pre-manufactured ones that they have to ship to retail and wholesalers? Those have to be manufactured well before the initial rollout of the machine to ensure that there is quantity enough to supply the different chains that sell Apple products.
Couple of things.

1. Fijiboy is confusing component inventory with channel inventory.

Channel inventory is the amount of boxed machines in distributor's and retailer's hands (or enroute to them).

Component inventory is the amount of parts on hand required to build machines.

Apple tries to keep channel inventory at about 3-4 weeks. They try to keep component inventory at about 3-5 days.

2. Anyone who claims industry contacts should know this.

[rickag]

Originally posted by maraczc
According to another rumors site, IBM has confirmed that production of the new proccessors will not even begin until late June. Just to add another side to this discussion.

Just curious what that other rumor site is?:)

[WasteGate]

G5.....970....... Only time will tell! :D

[whooleytoo]

Originally posted by FijiBoy
How can anyone take this claim seriously? Apple runs a "just-in-time" manufacturing process with one of the industry's shortest inventory storage times (I believe only Dell is any better). They try not to build computers more than seven days out from sale.


Apple's inventory times are a bit 'strange'. For instance, in the Cork plant, some of the suppliers occupy part of the plant, they push a pallette of components through a gate and it becomes Apple inventory, it goes through the production line and out another gate and it's no longer Apple inventory. All in the same building.

This is how Apple are able to keep inventory times so low.


The units are assembled at factories (mostly in Asia) and then air-freighted in racks (ie unboxed) to distribution points where they are boxed and whatever localisation needs are included (eg keyboards, power cords and modems differ from country to country).


Of course, the boxes mentioned here might not be production machines either, I think Apple still has a production line in the US for limited runs of pre-production machines. If they were planning on announcing the machines at WWDC but not releasing them, these might be seed machines for developers.


Apple does a global release of new equipment ie all countries get their hand on new gear at the same time. So there would need to be sealed boxes in around a dozen warehouses worldwide.


Not so. The localised kits aren't always released simultaneously, so the release times can vary, depending on which tier the country is in.


In addition sealed boxes would indicate that whatever software was in the box was finalised.

All of the above mean one simple thing - there are NOT new towers sitting in boxes in some warehouse waiting to go.

Well, all we know (assuming this rumour is true) is that there is new hardware coming, these could be pre-production machines for developers, or perhaps they are going to ship limited numbers initially - perhaps in the US only. We don't know much about what software is going on the 970 machines, so we can't know if/when it's ready or not.

Mike.

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by mim
No no - it's a TUMOR!

A big fat cancerous brain rumor tumor that's effecting our ability to think rationally. It's not humor. It's a conspiracy created by zoomer baby-boomers to destroy our....

....mojo?

<...quietly curls up over the keyboard and goes insane - and there's still another 8 pages of this thread to get through...>

It's not a tu-ma! I got a headache!

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by Sol
I thought the word was 'puta'. I am not a Spanish speaker but anyone would know that. Get your facts right before you satirize anything.

I think it was quite obvious he was being sarcastic. It is fairly easy to deduct that 'G4' doesn't mean much in any language other then 'G4'. So relax and realize sarcasm is hard to convey thru text.