Motorola and 'low-k' Tech [Archive]

MacRumors

Jun 3, 2003, 08:08 AM

The Register notes (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/30993.html) that Motorola has successfully implemented 'low-k dielectric materials' in its current 0.18 micron SOI processors and plan on implementing it in tthe 0.13 micro process this month.

Reducing that cross-circuit interference with low-k dielectrics allows transistors to switch more quickly and draw less power. The trouble is, implementing low-k dielectrics has not proved easy - new materials require new methods, all of which must be thoroughly proved before they can be implemented in commercial products.

Motorola did not give specifics on particular processors, but was quoted as targeting steady improvements: "Our goal is to stay with a frequency doubling every 18 months or so, and get into the 2GHz range for PowerPC, but at very low power consumption of, say, 20W."

Jimong5

Jun 3, 2003, 08:11 AM

I would think that this would be perfect for the iBook, and would cause some competition between the G4 and G3 for that slot, and perhaps the eMac and the Box too. Such a CPU would be nice to round out a line with 970s, But the question is: Can Moto actually deliver the speed bump?

Mr. Anderson

Jun 3, 2003, 08:15 AM

Originally posted by Macrumors
"Our goal is to stay with a frequency doubling every 18 months or so, and get into the 2GHz range for PowerPC, but at very low power consumption of, say, 20W."

Nice, but you know, by the time they get there in a few years, who's going to want a 2GHz PowerPC? I was reading about this tech a while back and I imagine it will be used more and more by all the chip manufacturers - the low power issue is a huge thing. And if they can put that in a .09 process, well, they'd get some more benefit out of it.

D

leo

Jun 3, 2003, 08:16 AM

But who's gonna buy these 2 GHz 20 W Mot Chips in 2004? Apple won't. (And 20 W is pretty much for embedded applications, I think.)

macgroove

Jun 3, 2003, 08:24 AM

I agree!

won't it be too late for Motorola. Come on, 18 months... IBM will have started on the 980 by then already.

:confused:

Longey Nowze

Jun 3, 2003, 08:25 AM

I submitted this :( I guess i was too late :(

anyway this sounds good, competition and stuff, 2GHz@ 20W is amazing if true, maybe Apple can bump the iBook to 2GHz? that would be nice!

anyway this news is good, I know it's a 970 but it's the next best thing for consumers... and maybe PowerBooks for the next 6-12 months... till the 970 gets cooler and uses less power.

THANK YOU
MaT

hvfsl

Jun 3, 2003, 08:29 AM

I doubt apple will get to 2Ghz until mid to late 2004, (if they use the PPC970) so they could use these G4s in the ibook or eMac. By that time Intel will be at or getting close to 4Ghz.

delton05

Jun 3, 2003, 08:37 AM

Who would buy them? The same people who currently buy the G4, Apple included...which is last century's cpu...4years old. You people sicken me! You're all so anti-Motorola despite singing the praise about the G4 all these years. I remember when you were anti-IBM, as well.

You're all so desparately hyped up about the 970 RUMOR, and that is all it is. You're all so desperate to get a new cpu, despite all the crap you've spewed forth about 'Speed not being important' and how the 'user' experience is what it's all about, I'm sure that if Apple eventually annouced a Mac with a Moto G5, you'd all suddenly switch back to singing praise about Moto. Fickle. You're like headless chickens, rudderless boats ... not sure where you're going.

I'll bet you're all getting ready to get excted about paying for a fifth OSX upgrade.

Pathetic...

Hattig

Jun 3, 2003, 08:43 AM

Who else reads this as getting to 2GHz in 18 months time?

Now, I would like it if it meant that they would have 2GHz in the near future (by the end of this year), and then get to 4GHz in the middle of 2005, and also be low-power.

However, with 2GHz 970's imminent, scaling to 2.4GHz+ and then higher on the next process, I don't see these new G4's being used in Apple products unless the price and power usage numbers are very good.

rickag

Jun 3, 2003, 08:43 AM

Not being very technically savy, I'm not sure if I should comment, but what the heck.

If the current G4's, and some say previous genterations of G4's, choke on the current 167MHz front side bus, won't the alleged 2.0GHz be absolutely left gasping? I guess they could bump up the L3 cache to, um, well, er, maybe 1GB.

Forgive me if I'm mistaken, but I did say I'm not technically inclined.:confused:

FriarTuck

Jun 3, 2003, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by delton05
Who would buy them? The same people who currently buy the G4, Apple included...which is last century's cpu...4years old. You people sicken me! You're all so anti-Motorola despite singing the praise about the G4 all these years. I remember when you were anti-IBM, as well.

You're all so desparately hyped up about the 970 RUMOR, and that is all it is. You're all so desperate to get a new cpu, despite all the crap you've spewed forth about 'Speed not being important' and how the 'user' experience is what it's all about, I'm sure that if Apple eventually annouced a Mac with a Moto G5, you'd all suddenly switch back to singing praise about Moto. Fickle. You're like headless chickens, rudderless boats ... not sure where you're going.

I'll bet you're all getting ready to get excted about paying for a fifth OSX upgrade.

Pathetic...

Sounds like someone's got a case of the Mondays.

Oh, it's Tuesday? :rolleyes:

mohaukachi

Jun 3, 2003, 08:57 AM

2.0 ghz? 18 mo? motorola has got to be the worst thing that has happen to apple recently. by the time these chips come out they will be obsolete!

motorola is stupid, grasping at straws and not living up to its standards. . . . screw em! hellooooo ibm!!!;)

ubergrid

Jun 3, 2003, 09:00 AM

yzedf

Jun 3, 2003, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by delton05
Who would buy them? The same people who currently buy the G4, Apple included...which is last century's cpu...4years old. You people sicken me! You're all so anti-Motorola despite singing the praise about the G4 all these years. I remember when you were anti-IBM, as well.

You're all so desparately hyped up about the 970 RUMOR, and that is all it is. You're all so desperate to get a new cpu, despite all the crap you've spewed forth about 'Speed not being important' and how the 'user' experience is what it's all about, I'm sure that if Apple eventually annouced a Mac with a Moto G5, you'd all suddenly switch back to singing praise about Moto. Fickle. You're like headless chickens, rudderless boats ... not sure where you're going.

I'll bet you're all getting ready to get excted about paying for a fifth OSX upgrade.

Pathetic...
This may be something you would appreciate:

http://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=66331&cid=6104343

/. discussion on the same article is here:

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/03/119252&tid=

JtheLemur

Jun 3, 2003, 09:02 AM

Easy Delton, you work for Motorola or something? =) Anyway, this sounds like a total patch - slap some paint on the existing kit to make it look better newer faster stronger. While low-k technology is interesting and a good thing to roll with, it's Motorola! their focus is the embedded market - it's been their focus for more than a year. Unless there's something we haven't see nin regards to these new-fangled processors, it would be silly to expect Motorola to be a viable alternative to IBM, who has actual product. That works now. You can hold it in your hand. I think it would be QUITE bad for Apple to sit back and see where Moto "goes with this".

But then again, look how LONG we've been waiting for them to ditch Moto. Hopefully they've run out of second chances.

ssamani

Jun 3, 2003, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by Hattig
Who else reads this as getting to 2GHz in 18 months time?
Not me. I read it as 2.84 Ghz in < 18 months time (a while since 1.42 Ghz came out) with 2 Ghz sometime before then.

That being said:

The trouble is, implementing low-k dielectrics has not proved easy - new materials require new methods, all of which must be thoroughly proved before they can be implemented in commercial products.
which I translate as meaning Moto have come up with a great idea in the labs but won't be able to translate to manufacturing given their past record of chip production.

twil13

Jun 3, 2003, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by FriarTuck
Sounds like someone's got a case of the Mondays.

Oh, it's Tuesday? :rolleyes:

LOL :D :D

vollspacken

Jun 3, 2003, 09:12 AM

too little, too late...

vSpacken

Sun Baked

Jun 3, 2003, 09:13 AM

:confused:

Longey Nowze

Jun 3, 2003, 09:19 AM

Originally posted by delton05
I'll bet you're all getting ready to get excted about paying for a fifth OSX upgrade.

fifth? there was the beta, IIRC it was around $30, then there was the GM which was v10.0 cheetah that was $129 in march 2001, then in october of the same year there was v10.1 puma was it? it was free or $20 for shipping and handling, then augest 2002 jaguar was released with a lot of new features and improvments which was $129.

lets see:
1. cheetah $129
2. puma $20 or free.
3. jaguar $129
4. public beta, which people were advised not to buy $30 IIRC.

so most people only paid for two OS Xs? would like it better if were at OS 13 now? would you pay for OS 14? just cuz the number changed?

I don't see your point if you were not forced to buy the new OS were you? I just dont see they point when people start complaining about this, I will gladly pay for pather IF it had features i needed, if it only had features i wanted then I'll probably wait a bit, plus I'm in the market for a new mac, my Pismo has served me well for the last 4-5 years.

I really don't see your point, anyway you might just be in a bad mood or something, either way I'm sorry if i offended you in any way.

THANK YOU
MaT

aharon

Jun 3, 2003, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by delton05
You're all so...

Nice.....crass generalization, that's what this forum REALLY needs. Go back to Spymac.

Besides, if everyone here makes you sick, why read it? Why not form your own disgruntled Mac site where you and all the other bad tempered people can wail and bemoan the downfall of Apple.

Dave K

Jun 3, 2003, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by leo
(And 20 W is pretty much for embedded applications, I think.)

20 W+- a bit is publicly considered to be roughly what Apple considers the upper limit for the 15" PowerBooks ...

RHutch

Jun 3, 2003, 09:42 AM

I'm pretty sure I remember reading about a (potential) lawsuit by Apple against Motorola for their failure to improve and produce chips for Apple. I don't know if it was this site or some other. Could this be an attempt by Moto to avoid that suit or other negative press? If it did go to court, they might still be able to say, "We were still working on improvements up to the very moment that Apple brought this suit."

barkmonster

Jun 3, 2003, 09:51 AM

Both the 7447 and 7457 are available from motorola right now.

Motorola's 7447 (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7447&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653) & 7457 (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7457&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653) Product Summary pages.

Offered in a 483-pin CBGA package, the MPC7457 processor is footprint-compatible with Motorola's award-winning MPC7455/45 processors, providing an easy migration path for OEMs seeking higher performance for their new or existing PowerPC processor-based applications. The MPC7457 can reach speeds of 1.3 GHz with a core voltage of 1.3V and includes 512KB of on-chip L2 cache (a 2X increase over the MPC7455's L2 cache), with support for up to 2MB of backside L3 cache. A lower-power version of the MPC7457 is available, operating at speeds of up to 1 GHz with a core voltage of 1.0V.

The MPC7457 is manufactured on Motorola's 0.13-micron HiPerMOS silicon-on-insulator (SOI) copper interconnect process technology, enabling it to deliver superior performance over bulk CMOS technology. In addition to increased performance, SOI technology offers excellent low power capability, making the devices ideal for embedded applications in the wired and wireless telecommunications, networking and imaging arenas.

It mentions in the pdf documentation (http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7457EC.pdf) for the MPC7457 that it supports upto 4Mb of SRAM but only 2Mb can be used as L3.

The MPC7457 supports up to 4 MB of SRAM, of which a maximum of 2 MB can be configured as cache memory;
the remaining 2 MB may be unused or configured as private memory.

bring on those MPC7457 upgrade cards!!!

I bet doubling the L2 makes quite a difference to the performance over the current 7455 cpus.

illumin8

Jun 3, 2003, 10:52 AM

Funny how there are more negative ratings on this news than positive.

How can any improvement in speed be a negative? As someone mentioned earlier, all of this 970 stuff is just a rumor, and it might not even happen for a couple of years... Wouldn't you rather be running a 2ghz. G4 next year rather than whatever you have right now?

How can any progress be negative? There are some (notice I said some, not all...) fscking morons on this board I tell you.

Also, think of it this way: Perhaps all of the 970 rumors have scared Motorola and they are thinking "we don't want to lose this market to IBM..." This might be just what they need to light a fire under their R&D department and get some decent chips out there. Having more than one vendor making PPC chips can only be a good thing. Look what the competition between AMD and Intel has done for PC speeds.

elo

Jun 3, 2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Longey Nowze

lets see:
1. cheetah $129
2. puma $20 or free.
3. jaguar $129
4. public beta, which people were advised not to buy $30 IIRC.

Don't forget that if you purchased the Public Beta, Apple applied your purchase price toward the cost of the next version.

elo

Abstract

Jun 3, 2003, 11:15 AM

barkmonster

Jun 3, 2003, 12:08 PM

I don't know much about processors, but when you hear news of a new processor that can be used in this and that, does it necessarily mean that any processor that works can go into a computer and run it? Is it implied that the new processor can be used as a processor for PC's and laptops? Can the 7457 be strictly for wireless.........something else?

Even though the G4 (the whole motorola MPC74?? series of chips) is used in macs, It can used in any other kind of PowerPC system. It wouldn't offer wireless capabilities but a wireless router might use one. PC laptops that run PowerPC Linux could use it, windows uses the x86 instruction set so PCs (as in windows system not "personal computers" in general) wouldn't be able to use it because it's a completely different type of cpu.

Rincewind42

Jun 3, 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by barkmonster
Both the 7447 and 7457 are available from motorola right now.

Motorola's 7447 (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7447&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653) & 7457 (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=MPC7457&nodeId=018rH3bTdG8653) Product Summary pages.

It mentions in the pdf documentation (http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7457EC.pdf) for the MPC7457 that it supports upto 4Mb of SRAM but only 2Mb can be used as L3.

bring on those MPC7457 upgrade cards!!!

I bet doubling the L2 makes quite a difference to the performance over the current 7455 cpus.

I hate to rain on your parade, but while the data sheets are indeed available, I don't think the processor itself is yet. Just check the Products (http://e-www.motorola.com/webapp/sps/site/taxonomy.jsp?nodeId=03C1TR04670871) page and you will see that under availablility (as well as all other categories) there is no information listed on the 7457 or 7447 - just their product pages.

springscansing

Jun 3, 2003, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by delton05
Who would buy them? The same people who currently buy the G4, Apple included...which is last century's cpu...4years old. You people sicken me! You're all so anti-Motorola despite singing the praise about the G4 all these years. I remember when you were anti-IBM, as well.

You're all so desparately hyped up about the 970 RUMOR, and that is all it is. You're all so desperate to get a new cpu, despite all the crap you've spewed forth about 'Speed not being important' and how the 'user' experience is what it's all about, I'm sure that if Apple eventually annouced a Mac with a Moto G5, you'd all suddenly switch back to singing praise about Moto. Fickle. You're like headless chickens, rudderless boats ... not sure where you're going.

I'll bet you're all getting ready to get excted about paying for a fifth OSX upgrade.

Pathetic...

Either you're under 16 or you should be shot.

Hell, you should be shot either way.

Frobozz

Jun 3, 2003, 01:05 PM

The article states very clearly that, unless I'm reading this wrong, that the current Mac's are overclocked 1 Ghz chips with low-k.

This doesn't make much sense... I don't know what to make of it. If it were indeed possible for the 1 Ghz part to be clocked at 1.42 GHz so consitently that it could be shipping in the hundred of thousands, then why not rate it as such? Too hot? Okay, that's why we have the ugly-ass enclosure that we have now...

I guess that the speed is directly related to the heat, so they can't say it's a 1.42 part if it runs hotter than XXX derees?

If this is the case, then I think it supports a lot of the conspiracy theories about the Moto G5 being dropped and Apple being left, well, screwed.

Frobozz

Jun 3, 2003, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Dave K
20 W+- a bit is publicly considered to be roughly what Apple considers the upper limit for the 15" PowerBooks ...

And to add fuel to the fire, the 1.2 970 runs at about 19 watts..... hmmm...

I know people have stated that this is not considered "low power" or that it doesn't have low power mode, but it's still within the realm of possibility.

copperpipe

Jun 3, 2003, 01:14 PM

Someone here asked how this can be negative, and I agree with them. This is competition for one, which is good, and two, why don't we just wait and see? Motorola is a big company that I'm sure has well thought out reasons to invest their millions of dollars into. Maybe this is a bid to make their chips especially for laptops, and who knows, these chips may come out sooner than expected, or when they come out they may surprise some people with their characteristics. I say bring it on!

ouketii

Jun 3, 2003, 01:59 PM

motorola and IBM continuing to make processors for different lines of apple machines... it doesnt make much sense to me. it is more understandable if there were another computer company using moto or ibm to compete with apple, but it doesnt look like a big enough market for motorola and ibm both to compete for the apple market. i think motorola chips will probably be limited to things like routers or microwaves (really, really fast microwaves..). but i dont know, competition is nice. in windows world, dell, ibm, and gateway depend soley on intel for desktop processors (and get big deals), while HP uses both AMD and intel, and does fine. again, two processor companies. but with ppc processors, they are not confined to computers, they have applications elsewhere. imb/moto makes a chip, apple decides if it wants to use it. kind of different.

Dave K

Jun 3, 2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Frobozz
And to add fuel to the fire, the 1.2 970 runs at about 19 watts..... hmmm...

From what I've seen on Ars, that's typical. Peak disipation is higher, and the 20 W is for that.

The other main issue with the PB and the 1.2 Ghz 970 is the System Bus.

Slapping a true 300 Mhz double pumped bus (remember folks, the 970 uses a Variable Speed Bus at 1/4 clock speed DP'ed), and it's controller in something that thin is going to take some engineering trickery because it's going to generate heat on top of that which the processor puts out. To my knowledge, no one's attempted putting a system bus anywhere near that fast yet in something with so little room to breathe that has a final destination of someone's lap instead of a climate controlled room. (IIRC, Mac and PC notes typically use 100 and 133 at 4 transfers/cycle)...

I really don't think there will be a 970 based notebook until they do a .09 die shrink. Especially if Moto can actually deliver things they've promised, like 1Ghz G4's that sip less than 10 W.

Dont Hurt Me

Jun 3, 2003, 02:53 PM

After waiting and waiting motorola now is saying they will have a g4 that can go forward? I have NO faith in Motorola or what they say. They have sat on their chips for 3 yrs and in 3yrs gone from 500 to 1 gig. Sad, i wanted to upgrade my powermac but now am thinking just get a new 970 machine. At least it seems IBM is interested in moving this chip forward into the future clocking up & up and even a 980 one day. Motorola on the other hand was content with the 500 g4 forever and still seems to be selling overclocked 1 gigers saying they are ok to be clocked up with proper cooling. 2yrs ago base powermac was 800 and now it is 1 gig. Did motorola advance or did they just overclock the 800 and call it a 1 gig?? Who the hell knows what they are doing but when it comes to cpu's i had lost all faith in motorola.

Rincewind42

Jun 3, 2003, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Dave K
From what I've seen on Ars, that's typical. Peak disipation is higher, and the 20 W is for that.

So? Current G4's in PowerBooks run in the same typical disappasion range - G4@1Ghz using either 15w(1.1v part) or 21w(1.3v part). It is speculated that Apple is using the 1.3v part due to either past engineering choices or yield issues dealing with the 1.1v part. So that puts the 970 right in the middle of the two possibilities and doing it faster and more powerfully.

The other main issue with the PB and the 1.2 Ghz 970 is the System Bus.

Slapping a true 300 Mhz double pumped bus and it's controller in something that thin is going to take some engineering trickery because it's going to generate heat on top of that which the processor puts out. To my knowledge, no one's attempted putting a system bus anywhere near that fast yet in something with so little room to breathe that has a final destination of someone's lap instead of a climate controlled room. (IIRC, Mac and PC notes typically use 100 and 133 at 4 transfers/cycle)...

The bus that you are talking about however, will only be for connecting the CPU to the north bridge. That is not that long of a wire run. Except for the RAM, the rest of the system will likely run off a slower bus (maybe 200) which isn't a significant stretch from the 167Mhz bus that the 17" PowerBook currently runs. The RAM would still be PC2700 (333 double pumped) so that isn't likely to change either. So the actual number of components that would need to change to accomidate a 970 in a current model PowerBook (i.e. 12/17") would only fairly small (Northbridge is about all).

As for the busses in current PowerBooks, the 17" uses a 167 bus and the rest use 133. The 12" & 17" both use DDR ram. I don't know much about PC notebooks, but I would expect most of them to use 133/167 Mhz main busses with quad pumped from northbridge to CPU & double pumped from RAM to northbridge.

I really don't think there will be a 970 based notebook until they do a .09 die shrink. Especially if Moto can actually deliver things they've promised, like 1Ghz G4's that sip less than 10 W.

Moto may have promised them, but they did so for Q4 this year - I think that Apple could have 970 laptops engineered well before then, especially since the 970 has already sampled while the 7457 has yet to ship, even if they don't ship them until the 90 nm 970s ship.

animefan_1

Jun 3, 2003, 04:37 PM

Many people took what Moto said about "18 months" as something referring to next year.

The quote from Moto:
"Our goal is to stay with a frequency doubling every 18 months or so, and get into the 2GHz range for PowerPC, but at very low power consumption of, say, 20W," said Dirk Wristers, director of device/integration for Motorola's MOS-13 wafer fab, according to an EE Times report. "The frequency could be higher if we were at higher power."

If they intend to double frequency every 18 months, than that means they intend to release a 2 GHz chip by July 2003! They released a 1 GHz chip in Jan, 2002. 18 months from then would bring us to...July, 2003.

They also said that the frequency could be HIGHER if they used a higher power. This is definately good news for mac users regardless of what some think. If we can have PPC 970 in Power Macs (and hopefully PowerBooks), and PPC 7457's in everything else- ALL approching or hitting the 2 GHz mark, we'll be doing really good in the performace arena (especially if Intel doesn't pull a 5 GHz P4 out of their A$$).

Dont Hurt Me

Jun 3, 2003, 05:46 PM

since we arre talking motorola thought i would just mention giga designs now have a 1.4 gig upgrade for over 600 bucks. I wonder if this will be a 7457 or a overclocked 7455????

scan300

Jun 3, 2003, 07:22 PM

The announcement by Moto may be new news to us, but definitely not for Apple.
If there is an advantage to using the 7457, (eg that they can utilise older motherboard designs) it will already be in the pipeline.

I think there is some sense in the speculation that Moto still has a future in Apple products. There is still a split in Apple's product range between G3 and G4. IBM co-developed the G3 before it split with the consortium over the direction of whether to altivec or not. It may not be viable to make a cost effective 970 iBook yet, but the iBook range will still need performance boosts. Where are they going to get that performance from?

If IBM and Moto both develop the PPC for Mac they could extend their development times and in effect leapfrog each other, with the newer tech going into the high end products and the current tech shifts down into the low end/low cost products.
R&D costs might be more pallatable as a result.

cb911

Jun 3, 2003, 07:22 PM

i was really surprised to read about Moto talking about this Low-K stuff. so this means Moto is definitely trying to keep up with the PowerPC game?

i haven't read much about the 7457, but from what i've read here i'm starting to think that it would do OK if they kept the G4 in some Macs? is the 7457 available yet? would this be the reason that the PowerBooks update has been delayed so much? or will the next PowerBooks have the 970's? (i'm hoping yes, but i really think there is about a 30% chance of that.)

Gyroscope

Jun 4, 2003, 12:38 AM

I really dunno what's all this big fuss about. Motorola has been focusing on embedded markets for some time now and those specs should be of interest to someone in that area. Its just the author's opinion that it may eventually end up in some of the apple's products. Personaly i think that Apple has had it with them 2 yrs ago. Its just that they had to use their G4 cpu's in absence of any other alternatives. Motorola 7xxx series are certainly kick ass CPU's in embedded market, and thats exactly where Motorola wants them to be. For desktops (read Apple) they just dont make any sense at all. Crippled FSB that just can't hold on any of modern existing memory architectures without some expensive workarounds (system controler). Heck, even cheapest Celeron systems these days have decent FSB with DDR ram on them. I just see IBM written all over Apples next few years.

Regards

Scottgfx

Jun 4, 2003, 03:25 AM

Originally posted by delton05
You're like headless chickens, rudderless boats ... not sure where you're going.

I'll bet you're all getting ready to get excted about paying for a fifth OSX upgrade.

Pathetic...

And what is more pathetic is that you care... Awwwwwwwwwww. :) Have fun with Longhorn... Oh wait! It isn't due till `05. Sorry, My Bad.

Scottgfx

Jun 4, 2003, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by delton05
You're all so desparately hyped up about the 970 RUMOR, and that is all it is. You're all so desperate to get a new cpu, despite all the crap you've spewed forth about 'Speed not being important'...

Oh, I nearly forgot. It's IBM that announced the PPC970. It's a real processor. I'm quite content using my Dual G4, But I'm always looking for the next thing. What, Because I believe in the Mhz Myth, I'm not supposed to want a faster computer?

Hell, I'm an Amiga user, I remember when I hated Apple... Times change pal!