Apple Woos Indies

[MacRumors]

MTV.com (http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1472248/20030603/dashboard_confessional.jhtml?headlines=true) reports that Apple is meeting with hundreds of indie label representatives on Thursday to discuss adding their content to the iTunes Music Service.

Senior iTunes music store staffers will show the label reps how the store runs and they'll perform some hands-on demos, though it is unclear whether Apple boss Steve Jobs will attend. The spokesperson declined to specify which, or how many, labels were invited to the meeting.


The article quotes Sub Pop and Matador Records as two labels specifically planning to attend the event.

Indie Support for the iTunes Music Store has been expected (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030430200734.shtml) and mentioned specifically by Steve Jobs.

[catalystx]

Nice to see Apple isn't sitting their laurels with adding more selection to the iTMS, especially with all the competition popping up. I'd still like to know how much of the 99 cents the artists get...

[Jesus on OSX]

Excellent. SubPop is one of my favorite labels.

Don't forget to pick up a copy of The Postal Service (http://www.subpop.com/bands/postalservice/index.php).

It's an excellent CD.

[kylos]

Sweet!! The more music, the better.

[Jesus on OSX]

Originally posted by catalystx I'd still like to know how much of the 99 cents the artists get...

afaik, with the mainstream (RIAA-affiliated) artists, apple gives away 60cents (NYT) from each track sale to the label. Out of which probably 10% or less goes to the artist I would suppose.

With independents this figure might be different since indie labels usually don't screw their artists over with inflated tariffs and dues.

[Mudbug]

This is nothing but a good thing - but I'm willing to bet someone will post a negative rating on it anyway. What's with that? Can't we all just get along?

[nickmcghie]

this is a good sign.. the more choices the better

i see a good cycle going on.. as apple adds more labels, more people will want to sign up.. as more people sign up, more labels will want to sign on.. this is will continue in an upward spiral until itunes for windows is released.. and that's when the floodgates will burst open :)

[dethl]

This is exactly what iTMS needs! Go Steve!

[chewbaccapits]

Great to see apple working hard on getting more than just the mainstream of talent. Hopefully this can happen and truly put ITMS over the edge and make all of the windows peeps salivate even more!

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by Jesus on OSX
afaik, with the mainstream (RIAA-affiliated) artists, apple gives away 60cents (NYT) from each track sale to the label. Out of which probably 10% or less goes to the artist I would suppose.

With independents this figure might be different since indie labels usually don't screw their artists over with inflated tariffs and dues.

Actually it's roughly 18% of that 60 cents that goes to the artist.

[Dunepilot]

Think about the young people (i.e. music buyers) who are into non-mainstream music, and suddenly you realise that your secondary audience (if we are assuming that the core audience is young teenagers - i.e. those without a credit card - the primary target audience of the music industry) is potentially as big as your primary audience (not every child can persuade his/her parents to pay for music via credit card).

So, this massive 18-25 market, which generally cares more about what Drowned in Sound (http://www.drownedinsound.com) says than what Rolling Stone says therefore demands the addition of independent labels. That Apple are getting on to this removes a major obstacle to people like me using the iTMS.


Hooray it's happening now.


p.s. I also recommend Postal Service and Death Cab for Cutie.

[mnkeybsness]

it's more than often decided by the label as to how much profit the band gets on a per signee basis. each band may get a different cut of the sales.

[Vlade]

Originally posted by Mudbug
This is nothing but a good thing - but I'm willing to bet someone will post a negative rating on it anyway. What's with that? Can't we all just get along?

I bet someone will too, for some reason more than 50% of the users said its a bad thing that moterolla finally started working on the g4 again

[Ambrose Chapel]

ooh maybe now there will be some stuff i want to buy from the iTMS. so far it's been slim pickens for me...

:)

[mislabeledstar]

beautiful to see matador was marked as invited, as well as sub-pop. i'm hoping to see barsuk, deep elm n jade tree jumping on there....... beautiful if it all comes through.

i just wonder if apple will cut the same deal with the indei labels or try to take more money themselves because they'd have more leverage than with the major labels...... just some food for thought

[Mr.Hey]

The head white boy in charge....who's the man> you is steve!:D

[medea]

good news, I would love to pick up some SubPop albums, Matador as well....maybe I'll finally spend some money on the AMS.

[mrwilly123]

DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX

[NavyIntel007]

Dude, the Electronic labels really need to climb on board. That has to be the worst section of the store.

And who put the one negative rating? Must have been one of the aussies still crying because it hasn't gone international yet. :p

[Duckie]

They need SubPop & Saddle Creek.

Those are essentials.

[MrMacMan]

Ahh, good more choices, with this apple will get some more good PR. :)

Now about 'The Beatles'! :(

[boobers]

Steve if your reading this make sure Thrill Jockey Records jumps in. Then you will have some of my money.
I haven't found a single song to listen to..as much as i enjoy watching Kelly Clarkson and Roooooben Studdard on the TV, their music does nothing for me.

[trebblekicked]

finally. (a short list)

matador
merge
sub pop
touch n' go
thrill jockey
drag city
K
emperor jones
kindercore
flydaddy
up!
candy ass
chainsaw
kill rock stars

keep em coming

[nodmonkey]

Originally posted by trebblekicked
finally. (a short list)

matador
...
kill rock stars

keep em coming

what is this list? your want list? labels actually involved? if the latter, how do you know?, and HORRAY!

[nagromme]

I like the use of the word "hundreds"...

[MyLeftNut]

Navy wrote:

And who put the one negative rating? Must have been one of the aussies still crying because it hasn't gone international yet.

Theres nothin like a smart arse snob to make your day seem even worse heheh ;)

And no i didnt vote negative....probably some PC troll.....

[8thDegreeSavage]

Originally posted by mrwilly123
DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX


No kidding...I hope Jobs isn't sleeping.

[vniow]

Come on....get Ninja Tune (http://www.ninjatune.net/home/) in there!

Edit: Arrgh...I can't even spell Ninja!

[Mr T]

The Artist's Cut
Twelve percent is average, but successful bands often hammer out better contracts. In many major-label contracts, charges for "packaging" and promotional copies are subtracted from the artist's cut, leaving the talent with a measly 8 percent. BMG, Universal, and Warner have announced plans to do away with such deductions for digital downloads. (12%)

The record company receives "performance royalties" that are paid to license an actual recording (not the written music). That explains why some performers, like alt-rocker Aimee Mann, run their own labels -- it allows them to keep a larger share of these royalties for themselves (30%)

The Publisher's Cut
8% goes to the music publisher in the form of "mechanical royalties," the amount paid to license the written music. While other fees can vary from artist to artist, mechanical royalties are always a flat-fee transaction.

The Site's Cut
The biggest chunk of your dollar goes to the online music provider (40%)

The Middlemen's Cut
A small portion is reserved for various other intermediaries. Sites like Liquid Audio, MusicNet, and Rhapsody often sell their services through secondary distributors like Amazon and AOL, so they, too, get a cut. (10%)


Source: http://www.business2.com/articles/mag/0,1640,49472,00.html


I am thinking more Reggae on ITMS

[mainstreetmark]

Originally posted by trebblekicked
finally. (a short list)

matador
merge
sub pop
touch n' go
thrill jockey
drag city
K
emperor jones
kindercore
flydaddy
up!
candy ass
chainsaw
kill rock stars

keep em coming

From one of the last independent community radio stations (KDHX in St.Louis), here's the label list from the Garage/Punk/Surf show, sorted by number of songs played from each label.

http://loki.vdhinc.com/misc/wayback.php?view=bylabel

[e-coli]

I hope they get Warp on board.

[machan]

i've been sending feedback throught the iTMS from almost day one to get a lot of the labels listed in this thread so far included in the store. i don't really care about major label stuff, so having the option to download a cat power or microphones album from apple is a very, very welcome one!

[trebblekicked]

Originally posted by nodmonkey
what is this list? your want list? labels actually involved? if the latter, how do you know?, and HORRAY!

i'm reaaally sorry. that's not an official list. it's the least i'd expect/want, and i would definately use the iTMS if these labels were brought on board.
like others, i've been sending feedback reminding apple that the indies were very important to me.
if we see the indies come en mass, i'd bet we'd see the broader indie-pop/rock/twee stuff first. but with so many labels, so many subgeneres, it's going to be hard including everyone. someone is going to get left out. it's going to take a lot of time to get indie spectrum properly represented.

[mproud]

Ha ha ha!

Who knew MTV would someday make the MacRumors news?

How about that? I say it's allllright.

Hey, ever check out that G4 cube they used to have in the MTV studio in Times Square? I thought that was slick.

Apple has a pretty big foothold in MTV. They're in every Real World. They were in Undressed (at least second season on - they might have used Dells or something crappy like that for a year).

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by trebblekicked
finally. (a short list)

matador
merge
sub pop
touch n' go
thrill jockey
drag city
K
emperor jones
kindercore
flydaddy
up!
candy ass
chainsaw
kill rock stars

keep em coming

and Dischord - any former home to the the Make Up should be on the iTMS.

[gerror]

Steve,
Talk to mr. Brett to sign up Epitaph.
Cheers

[JohnStrass]

Originally posted by trebblekicked
i'm reaaally sorry. that's not an official list. it's the least i'd expect/want, and i would definately use the iTMS if these labels were brought on board.
like others, i've been sending feedback reminding apple that the indies were very important to me.
if we see the indies come en mass, i'd bet we'd see the broader indie-pop/rock/twee stuff first. but with so many labels, so many subgeneres, it's going to be hard including everyone. someone is going to get left out. it's going to take a lot of time to get indie spectrum properly represented.
Finally, time to spend some money (and maybe even dump my dial-up for DSL..) What about getting some old vinyl on AAC for iTMS? There are a lot of good tunes from 70s and 80s that never made it to CD, and for whom "reissue" on CD is prohibitively expensive. This might be a cheap way to get some of that, and make it available again after 25 years. I would love to hear November Group again.

Indeed, THAT is the only current justificaiton for stealing music a la Npster, etc...

[darkmynded_one]

my wish list:

metropolis
roadrunner
projekt
cleopatra
dancing ferret

[sethwerkheiser]

THe coolest thing about this, getting indie labels involved, is the music delivery is more.. reliable shall I say?

Most of the labels that have been mentioned here. Most everyone has a different credit card system, billing system, some have a shipping dept, some are run by just a few people. When you order from them it's not like ording from Amazon (duh).

i'd be more willing to spend money on these lables thru the iTunes store. I pay now, I get my music now (or in the morning, since I have dial-up.. heh)

[ObviousMan]

If you're interested in indie artists check out www.emusic.com. They've got a free trial and its only $10/month for unlimited downloads. If I had to pay $1 a song, I wouldn't have found anywhere near as much new stuff as I have at emusic.

[boxcar]

wow! this is a fantastic move. If they can get Jade Tree, Barsuk, Immigrant Sun, Voctory, etc.... i will definitly wet myself!

[snahabed]

This is excellent.

But they MUST get electronic/dance labels on board. I would guess the demand for these acts is at least as high as for many of these indie labels. Plus much of that stuff never even makes it to CD - just vinyl and promo stuff.

Once iTunes gets indies, dance/electronic, and non-domestic releases (if possible), it will be god :)

[Foxer]

Rough Trade, Mute, Beggars Banquet and (most of all) 4AD.

Do these labels still exist? They were my favorites when I was cool in the 17th Century. I'm so out of it.

[Abstract]

Originally posted by mrwilly123
DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX DEF JUX

Originally posted by vniowCome on....get Ninja Tune in there!

Word. :cool:

[arn]

Text of the invitation posted to the main article

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030603184339.shtml

[trebblekicked]

- The agreement you need to be a part of the Store

does this mean each label can have it's own sticking points for signing on? i'd LOVE to see the indies sell for $.75 a song.

[vniow]

Originally posted by trebblekicked
does this mean each label can have it's own sticking points for signing on? i'd LOVE to see the indies sell for $.75 a song.


Hell, I'd love to see everyone sell their songs for $.75 a pop!

[pbooker]

Anyone know how to go about getting your own songs listed, (ala mp3.com)?

I'm curious if there's any room on iTms for the truly independant artist. :)

[ZeeOwl]

This is the best news since... the iTunes Music Store :D

So one of the iTMS's 4 major flaws is on it's way of getting fixed. Great! Now don't get me wrong. I think the Store is great. It's by far the best designed online music service ever made. But it would be even better by making a few not so difficult adjustments.

a) Get more variety in there. Indies, international artists, more genres. Apple seems to be on top of things in that departement now.

b) Offer (at least some) of the music at higher bit rates/quality. 128kbps is fine for pop and oldies. But for audiophile stuff; classical, opera, jazz, symphonic soundtracks, etc. It doesn't quite cut it. I rip those in 192kbps AAC. And some discerning ears think even that sucks. ;) They could sell the HQ singles at a premium price, let's say 1.29$. Or why not as .sit compressed AIFF, for those with DSL/cable/broadband? The 99¢ "regular-quality" singles are fine. But I'd lower the price of the albums to 7.99$. At the current prices, they're about the same price as a CD, with only "near"-CD quality, and no CD. What's the incentive? Selling the HQ albums at 9.99$ would make more sense. And make all the tracks available as singles. I despise cheap marketing ploys...

c) Make it available internationally. If not the whole world, at least the major players. Canada, Australia, Europe. Would probably double the iTMS's business. And sign up some international/local labels and indies too. Céline Dion isn't the only great voice in Quebec. :D

d) Get rid of the dumb-ass restrictions. Apple restricted iTunes music sharing to the local subnet with 4.0.1. Fine. Now what's the point of the "3 sharing computers" maximum? I know this was certainly a condition imposed by the Big 5. But their protectionist attitude is precisely what's fueling the P2P craze. Apple has a solution here. Let them do they're stuff unhindered guy's, and maybe they'll save your behinds. :rolleyes: Same with the "maximum 10 burns without shuffling" limit. Stupid! I doubt I'd ever burn the same playlist more than 10 times, but I should not be prevented from doing so if it pleases me, without having to perform silly useless acrobatics. Big 5 again; consumer is guilty until proven innocent. Stupid! Hey guy's, if I wanted to sell pirated copies of an album, I wouldn't do it from AAC files. I'd buy an original CD and make copies. Duh! :rolleyes: I only own 2 Macs at the moment. Hopefully, I'll own more some day. If I end up with 5 in the house, I want to be able to share music on all of them. And I will, because I will not buy any music with restrictions. Same with a businees with, let's say, 50 Macs all over the building. Why shouldn't they be allowed to set up an iTunes Library on their server, from which employees can custom-pipe music into their office? Sounds like an additional incentive to buy Macs to me... Free, easy-to-use music server. When I buy a CD and rip it to AAC, I can do what I want with the files. So until I can get the same deal from Apple, I'll continue to buy CDs. And P2P for singles.

End of rant.

Apart from that, the iTMS is fabulous. :D

[maxterpiece]

Originally posted by Dunepilot
Think about the young people (i.e. music buyers) who are into non-mainstream music, and suddenly you realise that your secondary audience (if we are assuming that the core audience is young teenagers - i.e. those without a credit card - the primary target audience of the music industry) is potentially as big as your primary audience (not every child can persuade his/her parents to pay for music via credit card).

So, this massive 18-25 market, which generally cares more about what Drowned in Sound (http://www.drownedinsound.com) says than what Rolling Stone says therefore demands the addition of independent labels. That Apple are getting on to this removes a major obstacle to people like me using the iTMS.


Hooray it's happening now.


p.s. I also recommend Postal Service and Death Cab for Cutie.


I would say that most teenagers have their own checking account (or at least a shared one with their own ATM card), by the time they hit 15 or 16... whenever they get their first job usually. Almost all the new ATM cards double as check cards and have the Visa logo (or mastercard or whatever), so I don't think it's such a big deal that music has to be purchased by credit card.

And by the way, the percent of 18-25 year olds who prefer drowned in sound over rolling stone is pretty small. It's true that our demographic is maybe more aware of some of the indy artists, but most people are still pawns of commercial radio.

[Ambrose Chapel]

Originally posted by e-coli
I hope they get Warp on board.

Yeah I second that. But since they are a UK label would there be restrictions on getting them on board ? Who is their US distributor ? Maybe that's who needs to sign up.

Not to get too OT, but the availability of import-only music is one of the best parts of napster/p2p. Being able to d/l music that is only available in Japan or for an exorbitant import price here is great. I hope that if and when the iTMS gets international labels (and users) on board that everyone has access to all the music. I know that the labels could give a f12k about the consumer, but it'd be nice...

[zippywinds]

this wonderful program, more tunes for me and you.
this also saves the enviroment, no plastic cases, no shiping in paper and cardboard,
saves fuel shiping is on line,

The next big thing would be DVD movie store he could connect it with imovie.
:) :) :) :) :)

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by zippywinds
The next big thing would be DVD movie store he could connect it with imovie.
I've got a dollar says you're right on the money in a year or two.

[mim]

Originally posted by vniow
Come on....get Ninja Tune (http://www.ninjatune.net/home/) in there!

Edit: Arrgh...I can't even spell Ninja!

Yay - someone else with impeccable taste :)

I'd love Warp to be on there too - the only problem I see is that both these labels are British based, and so might not see inclusion in the iTMS until the European store arrives.

Not that I really care at the moment, seeing as I can't buy anything 'cause I'm smelly dirty foreign scum :rolleyes:.
I may even just go and vote negative to spite all you over-joyed Americans! It's just not fair <pout>.

BTW, has anyone had any luck in buying music from iTMS outside the states? Does it check where you are through your IP address, or is it based around credit card billing addresses? I'm interested because I'm stuck in Aus for the next couple of years - and let's face it, we'll be lucky if iTMS makes it here before the end of the decade.... - but I've got my English credit cards primed and waiting. Do you think I'll be able to buy from here?

[Wry Cooter]

So what has happened with the big Indie Label summit at Apple that apparently happened Thurs June 5th? Did everyone who went sign a NDA? Were terms that scary? Odd that there was this big meeting mentioned, and not a peep in the news sites the day of the meeting.

I just want to know when we should expect new content, and who may be on board. Perhaps we will know as soon as next Tuesday.

[trebblekicked]

quasi-update:

matador records has a vbulletin forums section up, and there has been an active thread on iTMS for a little bit. i'll post a link, since matador will likely be the first indie added (cos they are barely independant, but that is another discussion) what happens there will lead us to what happens with other labels...

matador discussion forums: iTMS (http://www.matadorrecords.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=463&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)