PowerMacs NOT (Shipping) at WWDC?

[MacRumors]

The Mac rumor scene has been quite active over the past few days, with rumors of significant hardware announcements coming at WWDC.

AppleTurns (http://www.appleturns.com/), however, provides a small blurb with some doubt regarding the possibility of PowerMac updates at WWDC:

Meanwhile, we're hearing the faintest rumblings that the Power Mac G5 may actually not be ready for a WWDC introduction after all. We're not putting a whole lot of stock in said rumblings just yet, but we mention them anyway for the cautious souls among you who choose to temper your enthusiasm with a hefty dose of skepticism.

While AppleTurns does not put much stock into these rumblings, this information is consistent with previous notes (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030521023700.shtml) that Apple's PowerMac 970's were not far enough along to be able to provide shipping machines at WWDC. A recent eWeek report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030609153038.shtml) also suggests that Mac OS X 10.2.7 will not be ready for a month or so after WWDC -- pushing PowerMac 970's potential ship date into August, at the earliest.

[pyrotoaster]

No. No. No!

Powermac 970 at WWDC! At least they'll announce it.

[Stike]

I never expected them to debut at the WWDC...

[PretendPCuser]

But could it all be deception? It's coming out, no it's not, it is, it's not, definitely, maybe, positively not.

OK nobody knows. Sooner rather than later would be fun!!

First? Third. Go me!!

[unsane1]

Guess they will just have to have another simple Apple Event of their own? Unless Schiller introduces them at MacWorld Create?

[MetallicPenguin]

What the.....NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!! It looks like everyone got their hopes up, including me...:(

[MetallicPenguin]

Wait what if this is a trick of Apple's to get everyone mad and then surprise them...I would hope so, but that's false and they are not coming...NOOOOOO!!!!!!:(

[Sun Baked]

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=380969

Anybody up for talking about the possibility of the 7457 making a showing... :p

Really funny after all the -- "The machines are in production" -- type rumors.

[jcdenton]

I had a feeling we'd be hearing this eventually...

[zigi]

I wouldn't mind if they weren't available immediately after WWDC, as long as they were announced or demo'ed. It would help build up hype outside of the Mac faithful community.

[moosecat]

Geez, people. The article only mentions the "faintest rumblings" that the 970 won't be ready. Even the author, if you click on the link, is not ready to say that it won't be there.

Will it? I dunno. But this article is certainly not the end of the story.

[synergy]

This could be another case of the rumor sites hyping something that is not there. After WWDC the whiners will come out of the woodwork saying Apple let "them" down again.

Double edged sword the rumor sites are, but I love reading them.

[pyrotoaster]

While AtAT is one of my favorite websites, I'm not necessarily trusting them with rumor accuracy. We'll still see an announcement at WWDC.

[mania]

Well, I got this from Steve. He says it will be worth it.

http://www.katomic.com/mania/iCard.jpg

[MetallicPenguin]

If I can get a PowerBook G5, 15", before summers end, then I will be happy. But until this happens I am PowerBookless, and I am having one of those you-have-to-have-this times....

[pyrotoaster]

Hmmm...

If I was Steve Jobs and I wanted to discredit Powermac 970 rumors I just might send some of my employees out to create "rumblings" that those rumors are false...

You know, if I was Steve...

[MetallicPenguin]

Wait where's the actual story I can't find it?! Maybe I just overlooked it...

Edit: nevermind it was just like two sentences in a paragraph wrapping up the rumors and talking abou AppleInsider's story thing.

[MacHack]

From the Apple site regarding the upcoming WWDC:
Get an in-depth look at the future of the Mac platform and a preview release of the next major version of Mac OS X, codenamed "Panther", at Worldwide Developers Conference ...
...this is your opportunity to explore first-hand the next generation of technology innovations from Apple.

This sounds like they are going to announce, not release, future Hardware (970's) and Software (10.3). I hope it comes soon!!!

[bertagert]

The orginal quote should have also included these following sentences:

We're not putting a whole lot of stock in said rumblings just yet, but we mention them anyway for the cautious souls among you who choose to temper your enthusiasm with a hefty dose of skepticism. 'Nuff said.

So it looks like it's still up in the air. T minus 12 and counting.

Cross your fingers, light your incense, wiggle your nose...what ever it takes for more speed!

[arn]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
While AtAT is one of my favorite websites, I'm not necessarily trusting them with rumor accuracy. We'll still see an announcement at WWDC.

I think more telling is the consistency with the other linked notes than their information by itself.

arn

[mymemory]

I'm down:(

[robodweeb]

Originally posted by mania
Well, I got this from Steve. He says it will be worth it.

Hmmm ... "worth it" to Steve or "worth it" to me? Given Apple's track record over the past couple of years - with regard solely to the relevance of Apple's products to *me*(i.e. they produce some interesting products, but nothing of interest or relevance to me) - I suspect it won't be the latter ...

<sigh>

ps does anyone else find it ironic ... and a bit disheartening ... to see Steve Jobs so focused on the audio equivalent of the "selling bottled sugar water" that he once chastised John Sculley about?

[Steradian]

Hey this makes perfect sense...why is everyone so down? It's not like the 970 has been confirmed by apple...They said that they would get a look at panther...and they will...So...What's with the Dissapointment...

[MetallicPenguin]

The disappointment is there being no 970's! Apple hasn't let us down, we just got to up ahead of ourselves. But who knows, thye just said little rumblings, tons of people here said that they knew that there wouldn't be any, but maybe there will, who knows.

[e-coli]

Well, look at the bright side. If the 970 doesn't debut at WWDC, it will be a great time to buy Apple stock on the cheap! :D :p

[zuggerat]

i dont understand how one rumor site can say that have employees telling them they're all wrapped and packaged and sitting in storage when this comes along...it's ridiculous and annoying...im tired of these rumorsites...i'd rather watch E! and learn about Jlo's huge booty

[pyrotoaster]

I can't understand why everyone thinks that "rumblings" mean there definitely won't be a Powermac at the WWDC.

Every single rumor has it's "rumblings." There's always some piece of info that doesn't support it, or conflicting rumors that confuse us.

Some "rumblings" don't have me worried. :rolleyes:

[Black Badger]

Strange this info came out the same day the WWDC Keynote was quietly extended by 30mins, could this be a bit of Apple misinformation to quell the rumourmongers in order to heighten the 'one last thing' thing that Steve seems to love doing so much.

Conspiracy theorists ready?

Personally, I'd be really happy just to hear Steve announce that something is definitely on its way eg 'Delivery in a month'. 'Available today' would naturally be great.

Anyway in a few days time we will all know, except me, I'll be on holiday in Spain.

[cliffm]

With all these rumors floating around that the 970s will be *availible* right after WDC, lets not forget that Steve announced the new PowerBooks at MWSF and they didnt start shipping until *months* after the fact. Same could be true here, especially since the OS hasn't been optimized for the new chips yet.

[Chobit]

::eyes closed and hands covering ears:: LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

[arn]

Originally posted by zuggerat
i dont understand how one rumor site can say that have employees telling them they're all wrapped and packaged and sitting in storage when this comes along...it's ridiculous and annoying...im tired of these rumorsites...i'd rather watch E! and learn about Jlo's huge booty

you have to evaluate the source of each rumor.

arn

[Maxkraft]

I thought that new PowerMac might not be on the way for some time. However, that fact that upgrade makers are now making 1.4 GHz chips. In the past apple has made sure that upgrades are not faster then there current best system. So it only seems logical that new systems are on the way.

[benoda]

shipping at WWDC and them being presented are two different things. The former much less likely than the latter.

[avus]

As much as I want the PowerMac with IBM PowerPC 970 (I don't care about the eventual product name) to debut at the WWDC like everyone, but if not, then I don't consider that would be the end of Apple, or the world for that matter. We all can be disappointed, but I hope people will not turn bitter, as seen sometimes in this forum.

[Freg3000]

Bring me back down to earth. :(

[BillGates]

Who needs a fast Mac anyway?

[dhaveconfig]

Beyond the rumour sites!


Beyond the rumour sites!


Beyond the rumour sites!

[rice_web]

Originally posted by BillGates
Who needs a fast Mac anyway?

Lord knows we haven't had 'em for a long time. :rolleyes:

[pyrotoaster]

It'll be interesting to see what kind of hype Apple winds up putting up for the Keynote. Something along the lines of the LCD iMac's buzz would be quite cool. ;)
Originally posted by cliffm
With all these rumors floating around that the 970s will be *availible* right after WDC, lets not forget that Steve announced the new PowerBooks at MWSF and they didnt start shipping until *months* after the fact. Same could be true here, especially since the OS hasn't been optimized for the new chips yet.
All Steve has to do is announce the new Powermac. Apple starts taking orders, and a month or so later, people start getting them.

Truth be told, Powermac 970 pre-orders would probably boost the current Powermac sales (let's all blame Moto!).

[macabre]

I remember the rumor mill leading up to last years MWNY. Almost every rumor site was certain the G5s were coming out. This all seems strangely familiar. All of the people I know who work at Apple have been saying for the last year to wait until September to buy a new Mac. So unless something really cool comes out, thats what I am going to do.

[mactastic]

Where should we start the riot?

[Pancake]

The riot will be commencing in fifteen minutes in my shower. Protest songs will be sung(poorly).! Speeches will be given(poorly)! Armpits will be washed(pooly)!

This revolution will NOT be televised(thank god)!

[BillGates]

Originally posted by mactastic
Where should we start the riot?


Motorola of course!

[fpnc]

Originally posted by cliffm
With all these rumors floating around that the 970s will be *availible* right after WDC, lets not forget that Steve announced the new PowerBooks at MWSF and they didnt start shipping until *months* after the fact. Same could be true here, especially since the OS hasn't been optimized for the new chips yet.

I think a long-lead pre-annouce of PPC970-based Macs is very unlikely (one week would be pushing it). Once the PPC970 becomes public knowledge Apple will almost have to give away any remaining G4-based PowerMacs. It seems to me that some are overlooking an important factor in these rumors, the change to the PPC970 is going to be a huge, Huge, HUGE event. Probably the most important technological/hardware event to happen at Apple since the original move to to the PowerPC. That means that it will be one of the biggest announcements from Apple in the last decade. However, the original change to the PPC preceded the instant news and access that the internet provides today, so this transition is going to happen in a brave new world of customer knowledge (and rumor). Thus, I expect that Apple will keep information concerning the PPC970 as secret as possible for as long as possible.

Another issue to consider is that false rumors concerning hardware introductions at WWDC could actually be more harmful to Apple than would leaks about the truth (assuming that there is any truth to the WWDC rumors). Apple certainly doesn't want expectations (or rumors) to run long before they actually introduce the PPC970. If the latter happens Apple could lose the equivalent of several weeks of PowerMac sales rather than a small downturn between now and WWDC. Thus efforts to squash rumors (whether true or false) make perfect sense given the importance of any timeline for the PPC970.

[g3ski]

I really said "AHHHHHH"...but mostly for fun, since this is a RUMORS site.

If they demo a 970, that would still rock, even if it ships in late August. When we heard the original rumors of the 970, there was talk of a late 2003/early 2004 ship date, so a demo in June is WAY ahead of the expectations.

Now that a G4/1.4Ghz upgrade card is available for just $600, it wouldn't be the end of the world if the 970 didn't ship until end of summer (that's september folks).

here to another week of anxiously waiting :cool:

[BillGates]

Q. How fast does the next processor need to be?

A. Twice as fast as the fastest Pentium 4. Nothing else matters.


Q. Once we have it, when does the next upgrade need to be released?

A. Always BEFORE the next PC processor. Nothing else matters.

[Goekeli]

CRIPPLE FIGHT!!!~)
I would hope the new machines will come out when all is well with them and they are ready to kick serious a$$ and not before. I for one am really excited to see what Panther could be about and what it might be like to use it. The 23rd is my birthday and I'd like to see apple come out with new machines. At the same time I won't buy the first rev. or maybe not even the 2nd. so the sooner and longer they can be out the better. These sources might not be so great as already stated so who knows. I'm so glad I have such great equipment to enjoy now. Thanks to the MacRumors crew for being here..
On with the show! :)

[frozenstar]

Given all of the information we have accumulated up until this point, it appears likely that the Power Mac G5 will be announced at WWDC, but won't ship for a minimum of six weeks.

I'm just excited for the preview of Panther. I'd be ecstatic if they show it running on a G5.

[pyrotoaster]

I just wrote this, and seems relevant enough to post here. Enjoy!

Originally written for and posted at MacUnderground (http://macunderground.blogspot.com/)


Doubts, second guesses, and T-minus 11 days, 16 hours, and 15 minutes...

Oh my! Rumor followers everywhere are jumping into a frenzied panic over something mentioned in today's episode of As the Apple Turns (http://www.appleturns.com).

Here's what they're panicking about (if you haven't already read it and begun screaming while falling to the floor and curling up in a fetal position):
Meanwhile, we're hearing the faintest rumblings that the Power Mac G5 may actually not be ready for a WWDC introduction after all.
Yes, apparently we're so jumpy from our Starbuck's Double Shot's and Caribou Coffee Chai Teas that "the faintest rumblings" send us into a wild panic.

First, let me calm you down in a nice reassuring way: Calm down, and put down that can of Vanilla Coke.

Alright. Are we all calm now? Good. Because now I'm going to shout at the good people at As the Apple Turns. What the hell?! There. Now I feel better.

Yes, let's not look too far into these "rumblings." Every rumor has its rumblings of doubts, second guesses, illogical conclusions, and conflicting information. That's why they call them "rumors." And some people (like myself) find them quite entertaining.

All rumors have rumblings. We've now established that. Also, some people have pointed out that this only refers to whether the Powermacs are ready to sell. Apple could easily announce new Powermacs at the WWDC Keynote, start taking pre-orders, and then start shipping them in four to eight weeks (al la the 17" Powerbook back at MWSF). The same thing applies to Xserves and Powerbooks.

So, there's really no reason to panic over these "rumblings." For all we know, they could be a ploy by Apple to divert our attention from the fact that an additional 30 minutes has been tacked on Steve Jobs's keynote speech.

Remember, these rumblings are rumors themselves. And, come on!, how accurate are rumors?! Wait... that came out wrong...

[solvs]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by zuggerat
i dont understand how one rumor site can say that have employees telling them they're all wrapped and packaged and sitting in storage when this comes along...it's ridiculous and annoying...im tired of these rumorsites...i'd rather watch E! and learn about Jlo's huge booty
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by arn
you have to evaluate the source of each rumor.

arn

Arn, you're being far too nice.

If you don't like the rumors, why are you here? This is MacRUMORS! Sorry, but people who come here and complain about this stuff bug me. These are rumors, not facts. Even if you come here for other stuff, why would you click on this link?

Yer just asking for it.

Back on topic: we'll see what happens kids. I wanna be excited, but I don't wanna get my hopes up.

[pyrotoaster]

Remember: A rumor that a rumor isn't true is rumor, too.

[Postal]

Here's the full quote:

Meanwhile, we're hearing the faintest rumblings that the Power Mac G5 may actually not be ready for a WWDC introduction after all. We're not putting a whole lot of stock in said rumblings just yet, but we mention them anyway for the cautious souls among you who choose to temper your enthusiasm with a hefty dose of skepticism.

Remember that they just tempered their own "rumblings" with the fact that they're not sure that these claims are accurate. So don't run around complaining about an uneventful WWDC too soon.

And also temper it with what we know: Apple handed out multiple cease-and-desist messages specifically relating to the 970 being at WWDC. That AppleInsider's own article (or eWeek's) wasn't shut down is baffling, but the fact remains that Apple Legal thought that this hit a little too close to home.

[arn]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
So, there's really no reason to panic over these "rumblings."

You are focusing far too much on what AppleTurns said.

AppleTurns' quote was only a vehicle to post this story. AppleTurns' opinion is incidental to the purpose/direction of this article.

Let me be clearer:

Reliable rumors have suggested that PowerMacs will not be done by WWDC. Whether that means announced/not shipping - who knows. Read This (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030521023700.shtml)

eWeek says that Smeagol is not going to be done for a month or so after WWDC. It is implied that Smeagol is required to boot the 970's. eWeek is a more reliable source than MacBidouille or MacWhispers.

You can analyse the validity of AppleTurns' quote as much as you'd like... but you're missing the big picture.

arn

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by arn
You are focusing far too much on what AppleTurns said.

AppleTurns' quote was only a vehicle to post this story. AppleTurns' opinion is incidental to the purpose/direction of this article.

arn
I see your point arn, but that doesn't change the fact that "rumblings" is still best word to describe this with. Every rumor has rumblings.

All we're looking at are rumors that the Powermac 970 rumor might wrong. I still see more than enough to convince me that Steve will walk out and at least announce the Powermac 970 (not to mention Powerbooks... ;) ).

[cb911]

why is everyone worried that some site is saying "oh wait, we've got the faintest rumblings that the 970 won't be at WWDC".

there have been far more rumors from sites that are very confident that there will be 970 PowerMacs and 15.4" 970 PowerBooks, and i'm beleiving them until WWDC.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by arn
Reliable rumors have suggested that PowerMacs will not be done by WWDC. Whether that means announced/not shipping - who knows. Read This

eWeek says that Smeagol is not going to be done for a month or so after WWDC. It is implied that Smeagol is required to boot the 970's. eWeek is a more reliable source than MacBidouille or MacWhispers.

You can analyse the validity of AppleTurns' quote as much as you'd like... but you're missing the big picture.
I didn't catch this part before my last post. I still see your point arn. But if Smeagol (hilarious name once you understand the reference) is ready a month after WWDC, Steve could still announce the Powermac 970 at the keynote. The pre-orders would still be a boost to Powermac sales.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by cb911
why is everyone worried that some site is saying "oh wait, we've got the faintest rumblings that the 970 won't be at WWDC".

there have been far more rumors from sites that are very confident that there will be 970 PowerMacs and 15.4" 970 PowerBooks, and i'm beleiving them until WWDC.
That's the right attitude. If we start second-guessing ourselves and sink into confusion now, Apple Legal will have won! We can't let that happen. :p

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by Steradian
It's not like the 970 has been confirmed by apple

Generally pre-announcing major a hardware change is a bad thing to do. Everyone stops buying your current hardware, waiting until the new hardware ships. A year or two ago this happened to Palm. This also happened to the Osborn, and I think that is what helped kill the company. Apple doesn't even announce speed bumps until they are pretty much ready to go. This has lead to the inference approach by fans and rumor sites: everyone asks around to see what inventory levels are like. Low to no inventory at a large number of places indicates new models are on their way.

Pre-announcing software is easy, because as long as you promise a free upgrade, people generally keep buying today's product. This is why Apple can pre-announce Panther but not the 970.

[arn]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Steve could still announce the Powermac 970 at the keynote. The pre-orders would still be a boost to Powermac sales.

Still possible... but if this report is true (PowerMacs not ready), then it's like a domino... cause it invalidates a number of other sites' rumors...

MacWhispers claims that production machines are being built. MacBid may have as well. If they are not being built... then that makes the rest of their claims potentially bogus.

anyway.... just some thoughts. I think more details will emerge over the next week or so, but I'd encourage everyone to not put all hope into any one particular rumor.

arn

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by arn
Still possible... but if this report is true (PowerMacs not ready), then it's like a domino... cause it invalidates a number of other sites' rumors...

MacWhispers claims that production machines are being built. MacBid may have as well. If they are not being built... then that makes the rest of their claims potentially bogus.

anyway.... just some thoughts. I think more details will emerge over the next week or so, but I'd encourage everyone to not put all hope into any one particular rumor.

arn
I'll play into your point a bit arn.

Didn't MacBidouille claim to have the same source as AppleInsider...?

You have to admit that its getting to a point where there are so many sites predicting PowerPC 970s that it would be very unlikely that they're all wrong.

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
The pre-orders would still be a boost to Powermac sales.

My guess is that Apple cannot recognize the revenue until the product actually ships.

[theFly]

Originally posted by zuggerat
i dont understand how one rumor site can say that have employees telling them they're all wrapped and packaged and sitting in storage when this comes along...it's ridiculous and annoying...im tired of these rumorsites...i'd rather watch E! and learn about Jlo's huge booty
Originally posted by arn
you have to evaluate the source of each rumor.

arn

I don't know. I've seen plenty of rumors that all confirm JLo has a huge booty.

theFly

[atat_jack]

Holy cats, it's like a school of pirahnas on crystal meth in here! But I mean that in a good way. ;)

Okay, I know other people posted the fuller quote in context, but I'm going to do it again:

Meanwhile, we're hearing the faintest rumblings that the Power Mac G5 may actually not be ready for a WWDC introduction after all. We're not putting a whole lot of stock in said rumblings just yet, but we mention them anyway for the cautious souls among you who choose to temper your enthusiasm with a hefty dose of skepticism. 'Nuff said.

Key phrases to note are "faintest rumblings" and "not putting a whole lot of stock in." Who knew that a quick side note expressing certain third-hand parties' skepticism would send scores of distraught Mac fans leaping to their deaths?

This is getting so out of hand I may have to re-address this issue tomorrow. But the bottom line is that all I said is that some other people don't think the 970 will be ready to introduce, and that I didn't exactly believe them.

Personally, the way things are looking, I expect Panther to be demoed on a pre-production G5, but I'm thinking they probably won't be available for another month or so. Note that none of this is really based on anything more than what all of you have already seen a dozen times over. (Well, not much more. ;) )

So relax. When I said "faintest rumblings," I meant "faintest rumblings"; some people do in fact choose not to let their enthusiasm get too out of hand just in case of disappointment, and I thought they might like to hear that some people are casting doubt on a 970 intro. In my own personal opinion, whether the G5 appears or not, people are probably getting their hopes up way higher than is generally healthy. Remember what happened with the summer Expo of 2001 when everyone was expecting LCD iMacs? Man, that was an ugly scene...

Anyway, hope that clears things up a little. Thanx for your time...

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by arn
I'd encourage everyone to not put all hope into any one particular rumor.

I wonder what the Panther development team feels like. Apple has been touting Panther as the showcase item for WWDC, but no one is talking about it. The tension leading up to and during the keynote will be palpable, and if the 970 is not announced everyone will be crushed. It won't matter how incredible Panther might be otherwise.

A few have mentioned that Panther will be similar to Microsoft's next operating system (Longhorn?), but it will be released a year and a half or more ahead of Microsoft's. Lets hear some good Panther rumors!

[arn]

Originally posted by atat_jack
Okay, I know other people posted the fuller quote in context, but I'm going to do it again:


Hey Jack,

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. As I said before, I used the quote to point out that this is a distinct possibility.

I've updated the article to clearly define your position. :)

arn

[arn]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster

You have to admit that its getting to a point where there are so many sites predicting PowerPC 970s that it would be very unlikely that they're all wrong.

Don't get me wrong. PowerPC 970's are going to be used in Macs. I 100% believe that.

The question is when and who has the real info.

arn

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by zigi
I wouldn't mind if they weren't available immediately after WWDC, as long as they were announced or demo'ed. It would help build up hype outside of the Mac faithful community.


I agree.

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by atat_jack
Holy cats, it's like a school of pirahnas on crystal meth in here!

You aren't kidding. I think the only product with a similar level of anticipation was the release of Windows 95. I remember people waiting in line at midnight and rushing the display as soon as they could.

I think I better leave the hotel early in order to get a seat at the keynote.

In any case, I think the buzz-tension-anticipation might say something about the general feelings towards the current PowerMac line.

BTW, I have had a 64-bit processor in my home for close to 7 years now, and the rush for that DEC alpha was nothing compared to this. ;)

[gwuMACaddict]

Originally posted by atat_jack

Key phrases to note are "faintest rumblings" and "not putting a whole lot of stock in." Who knew that a quick side note expressing certain third-hand parties' skepticism would send scores of distraught Mac fans leaping to their deaths?


c'mon... you know us better than that. of COURSE that kind of news would send us hurling ourselves over ledges ;)

[tazznb]

Originally posted by Chobit
::eyes closed and hands covering ears:: LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!

I feel as VIOLATED as you, but when it all comes down to it the only thing Apple guaranteed / promised us is a preview of Panther, and a few other indesclosed items. :(

Ad-libbing is fun though!

Did anyone hear about the 8 processor X-serve they'll be presenting?

[3.1416]

Originally posted by atat_jack
Personally, the way things are looking, I expect Panther to be demoed on a pre-production G5, but I'm thinking they probably won't be available for another month or so.

Thanks for the clarification. This is also what I think is most probable; it's the most consistent with the available information.

[cb911]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
That's the right attitude. If we start second-guessing ourselves and sink into confusion now, Apple Legal will have won! We can't let that happen. :p

that's right! :) you've also got to look at the big picture, and from what i've seen that's what i've come to beleive.

everyone else can beleive what they want, but i'm getting a 15.4" 970 PowerBook sometime in July. ;) :D

[atat_jack]

Originally posted by arn
Hey Jack,

Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. As I said before, I used the quote to point out that this is a distinct possibility.

I've updated the article to clearly define your position. :)

arn

No worries, arn-- I certainly didn't mean to imply that you had done anything wrong. I just wanted to make sure that people understood that what I had said wasn't an official Prediction of Doom. :D

[XnavxeMiyyep]

Originally posted by JoeRadar
I wonder what the Panther development team feels like. Apple has been touting Panther as the showcase item for WWDC, but no one is talking about it. The tension leading up to and during the keynote will be palpable, and if the 970 is not announced everyone will be crushed. It won't matter how incredible Panther might be otherwise.

A few have mentioned that Panther will be similar to Microsoft's next operating system (Longhorn?), but it will be released a year and a half or more ahead of Microsoft's. Lets hear some good Panther rumors!
You're absolutely right. A lot of us will benifit more from Panther than the 970 anyway, as we will more likely be able to afford to buy Panther than a new 970 Powermac(me included).

[seamuskrat]

Lets look at this from an empiracle method.
FACTS.
1. 10.3 will be PREVIEWED at WWCD
2. The G4 is killing Apple in its curent performance
3. The Powerbook 15 does not seem to 'fit' the line up of laptops, and is experiencing a longer than typical time between refreshes.
4. I.B.M. is making 970's with vector units compatibl with Altivec- and Apple only technology.
5. The 970 is IN production at some speeds.
6. Upgrade manufactureds have access to 1.42 G4 chips

RUMORS:
1. The 970 will be in a Mac.
2. The WWDC will show a demo of the G5/970
3. 10.3 will ship early
4. G5 systems will ship by July
5. Powerbook 15 will have a 970.
(there are many others too)
ANALYSIS
Its a safe bet that the I.B.M. 970 WILL be in an Apple machine. Although not directly confimed by apple, the mainstream press has picked up on this. There are some strong indicators that Apple and I.B.M. have a financial arrangement for chips, and the vector unit seems to point towards this as well. We know the G4 in its current incarnation is maxed out. The fact that Sonnet and other upgrade makers have announced products based on this menas that either 1) Apple doe snot need them anymore and the suply has loosened. 20 Moto has managed to do something right and produce MORE of something. I suspect the former. The kicker is WHEN will the IBM 970 be in a Mac?
Will Steve show a demo of the G5 at WWDC? Gut feeling is maybe. Why maybe? It is very obvious that if you show a G5 and it rocks, then all G4 sales are virtually null and void. If they have managed to tweak the system, and get this to run, and the machine blows us away, no one is going to buy a G4 except at fire sale prices, which does not help Apple. Worse still, if they show a G5 that is less than optimized, and it sucks ass (i.e. not at least 45% to 75% faster than the same clocked G4) they deflate any momentum and enrgy that would have been gained by the demo. The evidence/rumors point us to the stark reality that 10.2.7 may be 20 to 30 days off still. Further still, it has been suggested that the 970 won't come into its own until 10.3 So, if you were Steve, would you demo a half-assed product? Take a few more weeks to ship and have initil real world tests be less than spectaular? Or demo a machine that will kill current sales and ship into next fiscal quarter? Neither are appealing. I suspect unless the engineers burn some midnight oil and plow though a few cases of RedBull, we won't see/hear much about the G5.
Will 10.3 be ready at WWDC? Well, it going to be pretty damn polished and good for developer types. Hence the delay. But will it be driver tested and user friendly and 'not kill your system' proof? Probably not. It makes little sense to delay WWDC, and then release finished software to please the masses. I think we will see 10.3 before Halloween, but it won't be mainstream just yet. The powerbooks. Like I said, I doubt we will see new hadware at WWDC fo r the reasons above. But I feel all signs point to an initial release of both laptop and desktop units. Humor me on this one: Year of the powerbook. Steve releases the 12 and 17 to great fanfare. Uses a bunch of old or optioned G4 chips and sells some units to make the books look nice. It distracts us momentarily that the desktop line is getting spanked. The 15 is still plugging away with a 1 gig G4 looking pretty damn good for a laptop. 3 months pass. No new powerbook 15. But Apple has forced users to migrate to the two newer models, and 'used' up existing committment of G4 chips. Now, we approach an inroads. I think from technical approaches, we can get a 970 in a laptop. It would be awkward to have the 12 and 17 lag behind the 15 as the sole 970. And it would be awkward to boost the g4 in the 15 and replace it months later. All signs point to the sacrifice of 15 sales, clear the channels, get the initial flurry of sales from the 12 and 17, use up the remaining G4s and have a Year of the Powerbook Orgy with the release of an ALL 970 lineup later this summer.

As always the week leading up to an Apple event are filled with chatter, and ramblings. Some legit, most bogus. In the next week, many sources that play it close to the vest will come forward with info 72 to 48 hours before, knowing the cat is out of the bag soon enough. So in a few more days we will have more concrete rumors- Am I right Arn?
But bear in mind Apple is in a bind. A big one. They know the G4 is DOA for pro machines. They know they need more than just iChat 2, and iTMS to make it pay for Wallstreet.I suspect they have made a big end run gamble, and will do an entire pro-line up 970 summer spectacular knowings its this all or nothng approach and home that speed bumped G4 or enhanced G3+ will smooth over the sales glut with iMac, and iBook sales.
What I think is uniqe, is all this focus on gardware, no one is looking at the software side. I think we will be sad to se eno new hardware, but we will be blown away with some software newness that is being ignored in our frenzy for the G5.
Stay tuned :-)

[edit spelling errors]

[elvisizer]

i'm really surprised how many people are losing hope for 970-based macs based solely on atat's little blurb. they're not traditionally in the rumor biz, and they DID say it was just the smallest whisper.
I wouldn't be surprised if they're just reacting to the amount of rumors and traffic lately at rumor sites. gettin' in on a little of that action is just trashy enough to fit into the atat world view.
i mean, I love that site, it's very amusing, but they say RIGHT ON THE PAGE not to take them seriously at all. so why is everyone doing just that?
chill out everyone. 970 based macs will be here sooner rather than later, even if they don't ship on june 23.

[Kid Red]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
I see your point arn, but that doesn't change the fact that "rumblings" is still best word to describe this with. Every rumor has rumblings.

All we're looking at are rumors that the Powermac 970 rumor might wrong. I still see more than enough to convince me that Steve will walk out and at least announce the Powermac 970 (not to mention Powerbooks... ;) ).

If the 970 is at WWDC, it's to be demoed to developers. I think everyone took the 'at WWDC' to mean they would be buying them at the end of the show. I am not surprised or disappointed by this because I'm still under the impression we are getting a fall release.

[TheOne]

I personally would be somewhat disapointed if the 970 is not at WWDC because I personally think the PPC970 is the perfect new microprocessor for the PowerMacs. With Motorola trying to sell off their entire PowerPC line with no interested buyers, that leaves Apple out in the cold in terms of new G4's speeds or even the possibility of Moto making a G5. I think there is a reason why there are these rumors going around about the PPC 970 that Apple has yet to just deny their existance in a Mac. It seems to me that Motorola is out, and IBM is in...

...If nothing else, we get to see what new stuff Panther will bring. (Something tells me it is 64-bit compatible:D ) No matter what I think I will finally buy my 17 inch Powerbook by the end of WWDC.

[iAlan]

Pro users are waiting for the 'G5' desktop.

If there is no working model, Apple will present the specs along with the new enclosures. Better yet, a working model with a live demo of Quark (which many have been waiting for, right?).

If they do announce, and allowing for a 1 month shipping delay between anouncement and avaialability, we will see avaialbility around the NY Expo (could the rescheduled WWDC dates have something to do with wanting to announce and ship at major events? Are any other 2 events this close together...?)

Don't know about the 15-inch PB though, or monitors.

With a bulk of the Mac community knowing something is just around the corner, shouldn't Apple put a little mirror at the corner so we can all see around it!!

I am not in the market for a new computer, happy with my 15" iMac. But Apple needs to let those of us who are waiting what is going on. I am guessing no-one is making big investments in Apple hardware with new stuff not far off. It would benefit Apple to let us know. Some may decide to buy existing models (which Apple will probably 'reprice' to clear stock) others will wait. But nearly everyone is waiting now!!

[tgrundke]

I'm sorry, I have to be a snarky jackass and state how ******** funny it is to read the emotional roller-coaster that people are on over these boxes. It is entirely hysterical on one end and a bit sad on the other.

To be honest, this is simply because the introduction doesn't affect me one way or the other, I'm not buying a new computer for at least a year. However, it's still funny as hell to read.

[iAlan]

Originally posted by tgrundke
it is (funny) to read the emotional roller-coaster that people are on over these boxes. It is entirely hysterical on one end and a bit sad on the other.

Well, most Mac users are loyal and it would seem a tad emotional on this topic too.

That's why we love our community:p ;) :p

Me, I cry everytime my computer crashes....which means i haven't cried since installing OS X:D

WWDC - Bring It On (suggestion for new event slogan)

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by tgrundke
To be honest, this is simply because the introduction doesn't affect me one way or the other, I'm not buying a new computer for at least a year. However, it's still funny as hell to read.


Great observation - if you don't have a burning desire for a new Mac, from that detached viewpoint the whole show is amusing.


The sad part will be (sad for those not detached, that is) that the hype is so strong that everyone will be disappointed.

Jobs could show 1.8GHz G5 PowerBooks, and the crowd would sigh - "but we were expecting duals...". He could show dual 2GHz PowerMacs, and the sigh would be "we were expecting 2.5GHz". If he showed dual 2.5's, the cry would be "what about the quads?".

Maybe the published roadmap that the Intel world works from is not such a bad idea....

[rutabaga]

hi everyone

just out of curiosity, is there a point in time when people reach rumor saturation? i mean, how many half-witted posts, half-baked rumor reports, myths, legends, and hearsay statements does it take before one throws up their hands and says "screw it all to hell" and decides to wait until june 23rd? isn't there a point when the corrobaration of the contradition to supposition behind the assumption should be taken with a grain of salt, not posted on the internet and then slobbered over for 9.24 hours until the next line of ************ comes down the pipe? it truly begs the question: what the hell is the point of these rumor sites, and, more importantly, our infautation with them? is it to get accurate information so that we are more savvy mac consumers? or, as i am coming to believe, is it to whip ourselves into this mastubatory fantasy of mac-geekdom? please don't blow me off or call me a troll - i am truly curious, and thought that some self-reflection might be interesting.

thanks.

[Mudbug]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rutabaga

It never gets old - this is the game we all play, every time. Sometimes more heated than other, like this rumor, but all of them in one way or another are like this. I still come back wanting more, even if it's not true. If nothing else it gets me thinking about different ways of making my life better. And it's all about thinking different, isn't it?

<edit> and by the way, well written, i must say, rutabaga...</edit>

[macphisto]

Well, for Apple's sake, and the sake of the sanity of 92 percent of the mac users out there,...I hope, I really do hope something will happen hardware wise soon. Or else,...who knows.

Of course the rumors before a conference are always insane, up to the day of. Then, and only then will truth be known.

[SilentPanda]

Sooo... if this article is pulled from a cease & desist order from Apple Legal does that mean that the new PowerMacs are coming? :)

I'm just glad I'm leaving for Romania in 12 hours and won't be back until post-WWDC (only by 4 hours). Then I don't have to check the rumor sites every 10 minutes between now and then! Take care all!

[jbrown]

Originally posted by unsane1
Guess they will just have to have another simple Apple Event of their own? Unless Schiller introduces them at MacWorld Create?

Good Point - As far as I know there wont be a big mac do at the Create show, and for something as big as a change of processor, a change of design, and a change of OS -- in short mapping out Apples future in the medium term - I'm sure Apple would want as big an event as possible. Unlikely that they would do it on their own, as the other two shows would have bigger coverage. So unless there is a change of plan at the the Create show - ( or unless Uncle Steve is giving Captain Schiller a break! :p :p :p ), ...........

So I think it probable that the PMs to be announced at WWDC, and ship 1 month / 6 weeks later ( depending on specs ), which as far as I know how it usually works with their hardware releases.


PS - when do you lose the " Newbie " tag - I feel like a marked man!!:D

[caveman_uk]

My feeling is that Apple are unlikely to announce the 970s unless they are actually ready - they got shot at over the non-availability of the PB17 so I doubt they'd do it again. Sooooo if they are not ready they will not announce them. I do not doubt the 970 will be in a powermac pretty soon just maybe not at WWDC. I think the new PB15 is a dead cert though for WWDC but it will be a G4 machine. No 970 PBs for quite a time....

I don't care much personally as I'm not in the market for a new machine for at least a year - both my ibook and PM are quite new.

Remember - Apple never promised there would be 970's. We've just all convinced ourselves there will be. So don't whine when there isn't.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by MetallicPenguin
If I can get a PowerBook G5, 15", before summers end, then I will be happy. But until this happens I am PowerBookless, and I am having one of those you-have-to-have-this times....
Forget about it, man. It ain't happening.

NicoMan

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by SilentPanda
Sooo... if this article is pulled from a cease & desist order from Apple Legal does that mean that the new PowerMacs are coming? :)

I'm just glad I'm leaving for Romania in 12 hours and won't be back until post-WWDC (only by 4 hours). Then I don't have to check the rumor sites every 10 minutes between now and then! Take care all!
Well have a good stay there away from it all. But we all know that everytime you are gonna walk past an internet cafe you are gonna be dying to go in there to check what's new... :D
I'm almost in the same position. I'm off tomorrow morning to the south of France until monday 23rd (the day of the WWDC Keynote... no, that's a coincidence). And I won't be taking my iBook with me (thank god for that, cause my girlfriend would kill me) and it's going to be damn hard to stay 10 days without internet... (I can see myself on the beach with my hands twitching without a keyboard)

NicoMan

[Belly-laughs]

To show off Panthers capabilities, speed enhancements and 64 bit advantages, wouldn´t they need to use a G5?

[jbrown]

Originally posted by Belly-laughs
To show off Panthers capabilities, speed enhancements and 64 bit advantages, wouldn´t they need to use a G5?


shhhhhh......don't use the jeee-v word......they're EVERYWHERE!!!!!
we'll be pulled for sure :D :p :rolleyes:

[NW80pdx]

Most of you were so happy to recieve your hardware 4 months ago, now you are in this pipe dream about a new machine! blah blah, waste your money, its just a computer..... I love Apple, but I don't need to waste $1500 or more everytime they come out with new machine.. its just a computer, they all basically function the same... who cares about about a .2 increase in speed? its time people start looking at a Mac like a computer instead of an obsession. Steve Jobs has you under his control, your giving up your money with a big smile, even though you arn't getting much in return, give it a year and this whole 970 crap will be a thing of the past, and you will all have your checkbooks open waiting for the next product, so you can dish out another $1500 for the next best thing from Apple. it's a shame that so many people sit around and waste money on computers that become outdated in 4 to 6 months!!!! pick a product and be happy.

[NW80pdx]

Originally posted by mania
Well, I got this from Steve. He says it will be worth it.

http://www.katomic.com/mania/iCard.jpg


im sure Steve has better grammar than that, im also sure he knows how to use a comma... dude, if your gonna fake it, at least make sure its right.

[tazznb]

Originally posted by SilentPanda
Sooo... if this article is pulled from a cease & desist order from Apple Legal does that mean that the new PowerMacs are coming? :)

I'm just glad I'm leaving for Romania in 12 hours and won't be back until post-WWDC (only by 4 hours). Then I don't have to check the rumor sites every 10 minutes between now and then! Take care all!

Dude... that's waaaaay too long (10 min) to be waiting for updates every three minutes will keep me sedated.

BTW if I see no 970 machines mentioned, me and some other heart-broken mac users will find Steve's house, and throw rocks at the windows.

I feel a bit embarrassed at my comments.
I really wouldn't toss rocks....... eggs are much better.;)

[silvergunuk]

I get the feeling Apples been planning on showing us the new macs at the wwdc since last year. There must be a reason why they had to push back the day of the wwdc, so they could have a more finished version of Panther that would make full use of the 970's artictecture. I still think the macs will be available after the conference, but only for developers who have to rewrite their software for the new machines, then maybe the new macs ship in time for Panther.

[mathiasr]

Originally posted by NW80pdx
im sure Steve has better grammar than that, im also sure he knows how to use a comma... dude, if your gonna fake it, at least make sure its right.
It's not a fake, all ADC members received it.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by NW80pdx
\ it's a shame that so many people sit around and waste money on computers that become outdated in 4 to 6 months!!!! pick a product and be happy. Normally, I'd agree with you, but many people here have been waiting a lot longer than that for Apple to put out a machine worth that $1500+ I, for one, bought a used machine a few months ago to hold me over 'till the next generation because I refused to pay $2000 for a non-DDR hamstrung G4 machine. (non real DDR I should say)

PS: As an ADC member, I too got one of the postcard's from Steve emails - it's not a fake.

[gate]

I waited 5 years to update my PowerMac G3 233mhz to a new machine. I can afford to wait a few more weeks if I have to.

It's worth the wait.

[Stella]

It doesn't really matter if no 970 based Macs are shipped in June.

However, it would be far more significant if they don't ship by the time Pather arrives...

[will]

Originally posted by mathiasr
It's not a fake, all ADC members received it.

I can confirm that. I got it yesterday.

[seamuskrat]

I think its safe to say the 970 WILL be in Macs soon. If its not at WWDC or announced at WWDC, it will be shortly.
Patience is key. I know I would hate to see Apple release a product that was only 75% complete. We have seen it before, but they need this launce to be near perfect. Also, the sales of current models. They have got to balance the inventory, current sales with availability of new models. Apple is slashing education prices for teachers/students and doing some never-before-seen cuts or institutions, so that is a good sign that the inventory is being flushed. ButWWDC is a software focus conference. Its still possible that no new hardware will be announced at such an event, but will be delayed for another event soon after. Apple has used a trickle approach the past few months, and done something every week or so to remain fresh in the news, and quite successfully at that.
The 970's will come. Neccessity dictates they will come before the middle of July, but maybe not as early as WWDC.
A major market apple needs to get friendly with again is the higher ed arena, and those purchases are usually made in middle to late July and early August (budgets and staff assessment reasons) so, Apple knows it needs to be ready to go by then.

[windwaves]

dudes,
it is pretty f***g simple. Rumor or no rumor, the reality is that Apple is so far behing, and has zero growth virtually everywhere (not the iPod I believe) so if things have to turn around WWDC is already too late anyway to introduce something that makes sense in the year 2001 (not hoping anything significant that would be "current", i.e. 2003). SJ knows that certainly a lot better than me and you. This was the year of the laptop ? was he referring to the 17" ? ahahahah. Ok, we do have another 6 months to go.

[Foxer]

Originally posted by NW80pdx
im sure Steve has better grammar than that, im also sure he knows how to use a comma... dude, if your gonna fake it, at least make sure its right.

Given the missing punctuation, gratuitous elipses and non-existant capitalization in your post, I have doubts that you should be MR's self-designated grammarian.

As has been pointed out, all of us in the ADC received this message.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by mathiasr
It's not a fake, all ADC members received it.

Yeah, but it's an obvious Photoshop fake!

:)

(yes, got the same sitting in my mailbox this morning ... If Steve says its gonna be worth while ... :) )

[moosecat]

If redesigned 970 Macs of any sort make their debut (or are announced) at WWDC, I wonder if the Apple site will run dramatic "teasers," like before the flat-panel iMac debut at MWSF. Those teasers began running (I think) 7 days before MWSF.

I would think that if half the crap that might happen at WWDC does happen, we might see some strong teasers.

Stay tuned to apple.com around June 14, I guess.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by NW80pdx
it's a shame that so many people sit around and waste money on computers that become outdated in 4 to 6 months!!!! pick a product and be happy.
That's not actually the case for a lot of people here. And, in this situation, it's not just about us, it's about Apple's future.

In my case, I have a year old iMac. I'm happy with it. What I'm not happy about is the fact that the only laptop I have access to is a Powerbook 165 from 1993. I'm not waiting on Powermac updates, I'm waiting for Powerbooks or (preferably, since they're cheaper) iBooks to be updated.

That said, I feel no sympathy for anyone in this forum who bought a G4 Tower four months ago. ;)

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by moosecat
If redesigned 970 Macs of any sort make their debut (or are announced) at WWDC, I wonder if the Apple site will run dramatic "teasers," like before the flat-panel iMac debut at MWSF. Those teasers began running (I think) 7 days before MWSF.

I would think that if half the crap that might happen at WWDC does happen, we might see some strong teasers.

Stay tuned to apple.com around June 14, I guess.
Teasers would be great! It would get us even more excited and put the press in a buzz.

If we do see teasers, I think we could consider it confirmation that we'll see at least Powermacs, if not also Powerbooks.

BTW, seven days before WWDC would be the 16th.

[welborn]

We're Waiting, Don't Choke.

[network23]

Just don't get angst-y if teasers don't appear! If the 970's aren't ready to ship on WWDC day, there will be no teasers.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by jettredmont
Yeah, but it's an obvious Photoshop fake!

rotflmao. that's funny stuff there.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by network23
Just don't get angst-y if teasers don't appear! If the 970's aren't ready to ship on WWDC day, there will be no teasers.
Considering the reaction to these "rumblings," I wouldn't want to see people start stock-piling bottled water and black turtlenecks preparing for some disaster if they don't see teasers.

[moosecat]

Originally posted by network23
Just don't get angst-y if teasers don't appear! If the 970's aren't ready to ship on WWDC day, there will be no teasers.

But weren't the flat-panel iMacs unavailable on the day they were announced at MWSF? They still got teasers ...

Anyway, I don't know. I'm just hoping. I'd love to see a "BIG NEWS COMING" teaser on apple.com.

Isn't it slightly odd that WWDC isn't even mentioned on the main apple.com page? That's not a good sign.

[dongmin]

How's that saying go, 'Expect the worst, hope for the best'?

If you were to put the level of pre-Expo hype on a scale of 5 to 1, 5 being the most optimistic and 1 being the most pessimistic, Apple usually delivers at around 2.3 in my experience. So:

5 - most optimistic
970-powered Power Macs at speeds up to 2.3 ghz and 970-powered Powerbooks at up to 1.3 ghz. All models shipping.

4 - optimistic
970-PMs at speeds of up to dual 1.8 ghz. G4 Powerbooks at speeds up to 1.3 ghz (mpc7457). All models shipping, except for the high-end PM.

3 - even
970-PMs demoed. Apple starts taking orders but delays shipping: 1.4 ghz model in 4 weeks, 1.8 ghz in 6 weeks, and dual 1.6 ghz in 8 weeks. PBs stuck at 1 ghz G4; 15" specs are updated to come in parity with the 17"; 12" goes up to 1 ghz.

2 - pessimistic
No public word of 970-PMs. Only the select select developers get to see demos under heavy embargo. Low-key discussions of 64-bit OS X.

1 - most pessimistic
Apple releases a round of G4 PMs, with speeds up to dual 1.6 ghz. No 970-PMs in sight. No discussion of 64-bit. Riots ensue.

My bet is for somewhere around 2.8. I'll be one happy cat if we go past 3.0, and I'll write in Steve Jobs for President (Al Gore for VP?) if we get to 4.0

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by moosecat
But weren't the flat-panel iMacs unavailable on the day they were announced at MWSF? They still got teasers ...

Anyway, I don't know. I'm just hoping. I'd love to see a "BIG NEWS COMING" teaser on apple.com.

Isn't it slightly odd that WWDC isn't even mentioned on the main apple.com page? That's not a good sign.
I don't think it's a sign one way or the other. Right now Apple's got a lot of recently updated software and price drops to showcase on the front page. The WWDC will take center stage next week.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by dongmin
How's that saying go, 'Expect the worst, hope for the best'?

If you were to put the level of pre-Expo hype on a scale of 5 to 1, 5 being the most optimistic and 1 being the most pessimistic, Apple usually delivers at around 2.3 in my experience. So:
No offense, but I didn't like your chart very much, so I made my own (good idea, though).

5 - Most Optimistic:
PowerPC 970 Teleportation Device Announced in both Powermac and Powerbook form.
Steve Says: "Energize!"

4 - Optimistic:
Powermac 970 actually ships that day! It sports at least one dual processor model. Powerbooks also go 970, ship soon. Something else is updated as a surprise.
Steve Says: "970's for everyone!"

3 - Middle:
Powermac 970 announced. Dual processors? Maybe. Powerbook updated (3.5 = Powerbook 970; 2.5 = Powerbook G4).
Steve Says: "I'm being neutral."

2 - Pessimistic:
Powermac 970 mentioned. Maybe. Steve sits in a chair for an hour rambling about the Megahertz Myth.
Steve Says: "What? You were expecting something worth the effort of coming?"

1 - Ultra-super-Pessimistic:
Powermac G4s continue. Steve sits in a chair for an hour-and-a-half rambling about the Megahertz Myth.
Steve Says: "I'm Motorola's bitch!"

I'd say I'm a 3.5. ;)

[Sun Baked]

If there is no PPC 970 at WWDC and it'll be a few months for Apple to announce and release new machine in time for the 64-bit Christmas buying season.

Steve could very well be speed bumping the machines with the 7457s or the next batch of Rev 3.3 7455s.

To let the machines stagnate another few months when faster machines can/could be released is quite sad, though the Motorola/AMD partnership did turn quite ugly at the end.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by Stella
It doesn't really matter if no 970 based Macs are shipped in June.

However, it would be far more significant if they don't ship by the time Pather arrives...

VERY good point. It's really not a matter of when they ship it, as long as it's between June 23rd and in Sept. when they ship Panther. Not shipping at all, or after Sept., would be devastating.

I'm not in the market for a new desktop right now, as my dual 1 Ghz Quicksilver is plenty fast for the majority of things I do... with the exception of 3D modeling... you can always use more horespower to render HDSI, Caustics, etc. My brother could also use the horsepower for his video projects.

[Uragon]

I was at the bar too, but was more sober than the guy who was eavesdropping, Steve will indeed present the new G5 at WWDC, casing only.:)

[pyrotoaster]

If Steve's sending all the members of the ADC emails that say "It'll be worth it", I think we can rest assured there's something great in store for us.

[snahabed]

God, even if the G5's aren't available, announce and demo them at WWDC, take pre-orders, and keep the current G4 line around at MAJORLY reduced prices to incite people to buy who normally wouldn't, to clear inventory.

Simple :)

[mathiasr]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
If Steve's sending all the members of the ADC emails that say "It'll be worth it", I think we can rest assured there's something great in store for us.
Yeh, icons will show up instantly in the Finder, QE will be 20% faster in Panther and overall the system will be 8% faster. Who needs new hardware?

[Abstract]

Originally posted by mania
Well, I got this from Steve. He says it will be worth it.

http://www.katomic.com/mania/iCard.jpg

I don't see why you lot are so disappointed. He'll probably preview Panther at WWDC on a 970. They may not be ready to sell it retail, but this does NOT mean that a PM with 970 chip does not exist. They probably don't have the volume to sell it yet, and may choose to sell it in 2 months time or so. As long as I get to see the 970 PM, I'll be happy to know that there is a bright future ahead. If a new 970 ISN'T previewed, then I'll be disappointed. Otherwise, I'm happy. :)

[eric_n_dfw]

And now for something completely different...

Everyone should go to the link in Abstract's sig' - a friend showed it to me a few months ago and it rocks! (BTW, Steve Jobs is a ninja, so watch out! :D )

[TheOne]

Anyone check out the "correction" thing at Appleturns.com yet? I found it quite funny. :rolleyes:

[yzedf]

Originally posted by NW80pdx
im sure Steve has better grammar than that, im also sure he knows how to use a comma... dude, if your gonna fake it, at least make sure its right.
That was sent to all registered apple developers. (yes I am one also)

[markomarko]

Originally posted by NW80pdx
im sure Steve has better grammar than that, im also sure he knows how to use a comma... dude, if your gonna fake it, at least make sure its right.

Dude, the comma you mention was used correctly. If you're gonna call something a fake, try not to look like a dumb-ass while doing so.

[Stike]

Originally posted by TheOne
Anyone check out the "correction" thing at Appleturns.com yet? I found it quite funny. :rolleyes:

Hey! Cool! The G4again? :D
If their predictions are correct, my PowerMac will be the fastest machine AGAIN :p and I even paid LESS for it :D:rolleyes:

[Abstract]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
And now for something completely different...

Everyone should go to the link in Abstract's sig' - a friend showed it to me a few months ago and it rocks! (BTW, Steve Jobs is a ninja, so watch out! :D )

Word. How can you NOT go to a website where they have Q & A's like this:

Q: What do ninjas do when they're not cutting off heads or flipping out?

A: Most of their free time is spent flying, but sometime they stab. (Ask Mark if you don't believe me.)

Hehe.

And lets stop bickering about punctuation, ladies.

[sedarby]

Originally posted by TheOne
Anyone check out the "correction" thing at Appleturns.com yet? I found it quite funny. :rolleyes:
That set of predictions I can buy into. Personally, I don't believe we'll see a 970 anything until MWSF. ;)

[MrBongHits]

Guys what is the matter with you? The g5 power mac is coming, in 2 weeks, and that is final. It is going to happen. Why would they even consider demonstrating panther without it anyway, ya nimrods. Put two and two together, i got Teddy Rupskin over here making more sense than some of you people, and he is as high as I am.

Panther is the os written for the assmunch, toe sweatin 64 bit os. They are trying to impress the developers. it is the most important event for them all year, seriously. No developers, no platform, we'll alll be stuck with winHoZe over there, or in my case, a dozen chicken littles (little bit may, microve 35 seconds) and the care bears.

[-hh]

Originally posted by seamuskrat
I think its safe to say the 970 WILL be in Macs soon. If its not at WWDC or announced at WWDC, it will be shortly.

Patience is key.

I can be patient to a degree. But I've been waiting for a "worthwhile" (IMO) PowerMac upgrade for ~2 years now. My current machine remains a 6 year old 8500 chassis with a ~3 year old G4 upgrade card. YMMV, but for me, that's how long its been since Apple really had good price:performance IMO.



A major market apple needs to get friendly with again is the higher ed arena, and those purchases are usually made in middle to late July and early August (budgets and staff assessment reasons) so, Apple knows it needs to be ready to go by then.

Unfortunately, Apple has screwed up that market before.

And IMO, the decisions have to be made a bit earlier than this: you want delivery by mid-August to allow local time for distribution and setup. That means ~8 weeks from TODAY, or less than 6 weeks from the WWDC. That's a delivery schedule tightrope for both sides...it will be a minor miracle if that ball doesn't get dropped.


-hh

[MetallicPenguin]

Yeah guys everyone settle down, Power Macs/PowerBooks are coming at WWDC, and if not; they will probably come out soon after or even at MacWorld Creative Expo or whatever.

[macpundit]

I like AtAT. It's well written and fun to read.

Having said that...

I wouldn't give much creedence to anything posted there lately. Ever since the guy had a kid, the site has been updated so sporadically, that I've stopped visiting altogether. Even when he'd post that he was all caught up, and planned regular updates, they would still be sporadic, at best.

I mean, God bless 'em. He's taking care of his family. He's got a wife and a kid, and he's got his priorities straight in a world full of people with their heads up their butts. But, I haven't seen anything fresh posted (that I haven't seen posted elsewhere days earlier) at AtAT in over a year.

He writes a great site, but it's no longer updated with any consistency.

[atat_jack]

Originally posted by macpundit
I like AtAT. It's well written and fun to read.

Having said that...

I wouldn't give much creedence to anything posted there lately. Ever since the guy had a kid, the site has been updated so sporadically, that I've stopped visiting altogether. Even when he'd post that he was all caught up, and planned regular updates, they would still be sporadic, at best.

I mean, God bless 'em. He's taking care of his family. He's got a wife and a kid, and he's got his priorities straight in a world full of people with their heads up their butts. But, I haven't seen anything fresh posted (that I haven't seen posted elsewhere days earlier) at AtAT in over a year.

He writes a great site, but it's no longer updated with any consistency.

Well, that doesn't seem like a fair assessment to me-- I haven't missed a single non-holiday weekday since April 29th. Personally, I'd call that pretty consistent.

Then again, missing every non-holiday weekday for the eleven weeks before that was pretty darn consistent, too. :D

Remember, all, AtAT has never been a rumors site-- ever since it debuted in '97 it's been for commentary on other people's news and rumors. (It was actually conceived as a funktified links site.) When I do stumble across privileged info, I rarely post it-- that's not what the site's for. If you're looking for original insider info, go to MOSR or AppleInsider or MacWhispers or any of the other places that profess to have it. I claim no such knowledge. AtAT's just meant to be snarky commentary about whatever goofy stuff's going on Mac-wise.

Clear? Thanx!

[richard5mith]

Well damnit Jack, I was all ready to point that out to him and you had to come along here and just go and ruin it for me.

I guess I'll go defend some other website from some other idiot.

[pyrotoaster]

Keep up the good work, Jack!
I might have sent you some hate email last night just for sending rumor followers into some crazy frenzy, but I was just venting. ;)

[soggywulf]

Yeah no kidding...keep it up atat! Best Mac site around.

Reading atat for rumors is like reading Dave Barry for financial advice (If MSFT is down 2 points and AAPL is up 3 3/4 on heavy trading, stand on your head and pour cough syrup up your nose).

[twelve]

if they don't release these apple is doomed. i already purchased a pc laptop instead of an apple. my desktop is next unless i see something wicked.

[bertagert]

Originally posted by twelve
if they don't release these apple is doomed. i already purchased a pc laptop instead of an apple. my desktop is next unless i see something wicked.

Here, Here

[avus]

Originally posted by twelve
if they don't release these apple is doomed. i already purchased a pc laptop instead of an apple. my desktop is next unless i see something wicked.

Don't HEAR him, don't HEAR him.

[bertagert]

hear, hear (sorry about that:) )

[vniow]

Originally posted by twelve
if they don't release these apple is doomed.

http://www.macobserver.com/appledeathknell/index.shtml

[ktlx]

Originally posted by twelve
if they don't release these apple is doomed. i already purchased a pc laptop instead of an apple. my desktop is next unless i see something wicked.

If I had a dollar for every time someone said something like this prior to a large Mac event, I would have almost as much money as Apple does.

[macpundit]

Okay, Jack. You've made your point. But keep in mind, when you're THAT good of a writer, people miss you when you're gone. :cool:

Being gone that long, leaving up out of date posts, gives some readers, myself included, the impression that perhaps you're out of the loop completely; hence my comment about the validity / relevance of your most recent posts (i.e. comments about G5 rumors).

I have always believed you to be well informed, intelligent and thoughtful; your well written work to be lucid, creative and belly-laugh inducing.

(You'll notice that I also gave you props for being a stand-up guy & responsible Dad.) :)

[twelve]

Originally posted by vniow
http://www.macobserver.com/appledeathknell/index.shtml

i see people "switching" everyday to pcs because of one reason: powerful processors.

[avus]

Originally posted by twelve
one reason: powerful processors.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?threadid=29339

[wildmac]

If Apple can't get a 970/G5 out the door by the end of this year, I WILL go and buy a PC, and hate it I will, but I will spend a lot less time on it because it will have a CURRENT processor so I can get my work done in a reasonable time! How long have we been screwed by Motorola! Enough is enough!!!

Macs are loosing now in the video arena, and are DEAD in 3D work. They need speed!!!

Apple had better get this right, or I'll be switching my graphics department at work to PCs the next time the capital investments roll around.

I love the Mac, but I don't drive 30 MPH slower than everyone else on the freeway, so why should I compute that way?

[iSegway]

Could someone explain the Mac processor situatiuon to me briefly? I have heard that Apple can make their computers much faster even when using inferior processors... so why not use a processor like an intel chip and make an even better system?

[Chimaera]

The short answer is: It's not an inferior chip - the PPC design is better, more efficient design than the Intel x86 design (as is the AMD version of the x86, but not nearly the same degree).

As a result it accomplishes more per clock cycle than the intel processors do, so can achieve the same amount of 'work' as a faster clocked intel processor - this is the reason behind the 'MHz Myth'. The problem, however, is that the Intel chips are now *way* faster than the PPCs, So while the MHz myth still holds true, the best Intel x86 proc out there will smoke the best PPC chip used by Apple, even when its in a dual-proc configuration.

[iSegway]

The problem, however, is that the Intel chips are now *way* faster than the PPCs, So while the MHz myth still holds true, the best Intel x86 proc out there will smoke the best PPC chip used by Apple, even when its in a dual-proc configuration.

So why can't they just use intel chips and design a computer around that?

Or even an AMD chip now? Whatever the best component is?

Or even better yet... why not have intel make some processors with their technology in the architecture that Apple wants? Then you have the best of both worlds.

[gate]

At this point, we heard so much about the PPC 970 that Apple doesn't have the choice. The new computer that the company will release will be with that new processor. I already waited 6 more months before buying a new computer because the rumor about a major speed bump was in the air and I guess that I'm not alone. In fact, I would even say that it's been close to 2 years that we all wait for the G5 (or something really new). So if Apple postpones the release of the PPC 970, me and probably many others are gonna wait some more weeks (or even months) to buy that new computer. It's that simple. Usually, I buy a new one every 3 years, now it's been 5 since my G3 233 mhz. And I delayed that decision for just one reason, I wanted the next generation of computers. I'm sure that I'm not the only one in that case. I'm glad that Apple turned to IBM because Motorola was simply unable to deliver something powerful enough to put Apple back in the game. The benchmarks that I saw of the PPC 970 are astonishing (even without an OS capable of 64 bits) and finally Apple will come up with a machine that will easily compete with what we can find in the PC world.

[Chimaera]

Originally posted by iSegway
So why can't they just use intel chips and design a computer around that?

Or even an AMD chip now? Whatever the best component is?

Or even better yet... why not have intel make some processors with their technology in the architecture that Apple wants? Then you have the best of both worlds.

Aside from the fact that most of the folks here would freak? :)

Basically becuase a LOT of the software would need to be recompiled (and in places rewritten) to work on a completely different architecture.

As for getting Intel to make a PPC chip - who can say for sure it will scale any better than IBM's or Motorola's efforts? (By scale I mean ramp up the clockspeed).

[ktlx]

Originally posted by Chimaera
The short answer is: It's not an inferior chip - the PPC design is better, more efficient design than the Intel x86 design (as is the AMD version of the x86, but not nearly the same degree).

This is really a pointless argument. What is an Intel x86 design anyway? There are currently three Intel x86-compatible processors on the market all with a different design. Is it the Pentium III design? Is it the Pentium 4 design? Is it the Pentium M design?

The key factor in processor design is how well it accomplishes the task for which is was designed for. The Pentium 4 was designed to allow Intel to reach customer amazing Ghz speeds and raw 32-bit output on desktop systems. Intel did not worry about heat that much and took advantage of emerging memory technologies to support the processor.

Using that criteria, the Pentium 4 is an excellent design because no other processor design out there can touch it for doing 32-bit integer math. AMD tried to keep up and did a good job until Intel passed 2.8Ghz. But it is just as bad for power consumption and heat dissipation.

Of course if you try to shoehorn it into a laptop or try to compare it Ghz to Ghz to other designs, of course it will look poorer. You are trying to force it outside of its design space. The Pentium 4 was never intended to be stuck at under 1.5Ghz and saddled with a circa-1999 memory bus.

[Sun Baked]

Hopefully the people that look at the demo units will pass on some useful information about the guts of the machine.

Plastic case is purty... and the type of ports used are the type of reporting you'd expect in a fashion magazine.

I'm interested in the mobo architecture details.