Have you seen this copy of LOTR before?

[jethroted]

I bought this at a garage sale for $75. I think it was an estate sale of sorts, because the were selling everything the guy owned. Even his clothes. There was alot of LOTR stuff there, so he was obviously a collector, but nothing caught my eye like this book. The book claims to be "one of a kind". I think it is possible since I have never seen it on ebay, or anywhere else before. Has anyone here seen the book before? Another strange thing avout the book is that it has all three books in one, but it lists them as 6 books in the table of contents.

I. The first Journey
II. The Journey of the nine Companions
III. The treason of Isengard
IV. The Journey of the Ringbearers
V. The war of the Ring
VI.The End of the Third Age

[astray]

I dunno about this being one of a kind, but i have however come across the contents being listed as 6 books instead of three.

[WinterMute]

I believe the original book was divided like that, with headings. LORT is always divided into 6 books, 2 books per section, when it's a complete volume. Some of the latter 3 volume sets dropped the titles is all.

What's the pulication date and house, that'll tell you more about it.

Looks like an old one to me.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by WinterMute
I believe the original book was divided like that, with headings. LORT is always divided into 6 books, 2 books per section, when it's a complete volume. Some of the latter 3 volume sets dropped the titles is all.

What's the pulication date and house, that'll tell you more about it.

Looks like an old one to me.

There is no info in it as far as who printed it, or when it was made. Another very strange feature of the book. The leather on the cover is also very raw, and unfinished. No dye or polishing.

[wdlove]

Congratulations on a great find, jethroted! You should take the book to a reputable antique dealer.

[MacBandit]

This page has a list of collectable Tolkien books. I don't see yours on their though a picture of the end of the book would help. I would email the webmaster and see if he knows anything about your book. I seem to remember the all inclusive books but I have never seen one with such little detail and artistry on the cover.

http://derhobbit-film.de/collecting-tolkien.shtml?e#alibris

[jethroted]

Originally posted by MacBandit
This page has a list of collectable Tolkien books. I don't see yours on their though a picture of the end of the book would help. I would email the webmaster and see if he knows anything about your book. I seem to remember the all inclusive books but I have never seen one with such little detail and artistry on the cover.

http://derhobbit-film.de/collecting-tolkien.shtml?e#alibris

Do you mean a picture of the spine? If you want to see that, let me know and I'll post it.

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by jethroted
Do you mean a picture of the spine? If you want to see that, let me know and I'll post it.

Yes please. :)

Very intresting.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by MrMacman
Yes please. :)

Very intresting.

Here you go!

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by jethroted
Here you go!

Yeah that's what I wanted sorry I was having a mental block earlier on what to call it.

That's very very interesting. As I have said before I have never seen a Tolkien book in one solid color with nothing but text on it. They usually have a dual or three color cover or they have graphics or some sort of artistry on them. It definitely looks like some sort of one off. Maybe a rebound book.

[pseudobrit]

Perhaps a pirated copy, too.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Perhaps a pirated copy, too.

A pirated copy? I hope it's not, because I spent $75 on it. I've never really seen a pirated book before though. Wouldn't it cost a lot more to make the book then to go and buy it? I hope it's legit. :eek:

Also, I don't think it's just a rebund book, because I have not seen a copy of LOTR with those font styles in it before. Also the books size is huge! It's dimensions are;

12 inches long, 9 inches wide, and 3.5 inches thick.

This thing is the biggest copy I have ever seen. That's another reason why I don't think it's a rebound copy.

[JBracy]

Originally posted by jethroted
A pirated copy? I hope it's not, because I spent $75 on it. I've never really seen a pirated book before though. Wouldn't it cost a lot more to make the book then to go and buy it? I hope it's legit. :eek:

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the first release in the US was a pirate copy. I think I read it in the intro to the current printing. Something to do with publishing rights and UK copyright or something.

[medea]

If you really want to know it's origins or if it is a collectors item you should contact someone from a site like http://derhobbit-film.de/collecting-tolkien.shtml?e
they list a good deal of "collectable" Tolkien Books but I don't see yours there.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by medea
If you really want to know it's origins or if it is a collectors item you should contact someone from a site like http://derhobbit-film.de/collecting-tolkien.shtml?e
they list a good deal of "collectable" Tolkien Books but I don't see yours there.

Yeah Macbandit mentioned that place, so I emailed the guy there. Still waiting to hear back from him though.

[evil]

even though i could care less about the tolkien stuff this is quite interesting.
please post any updates that you find out about your book.
its like watching antiques road show or something

[jethroted]

Originally posted by evil
even though i could care less about the tolkien stuff this is quite interesting.
please post any updates that you find out about your book.
its like watching antiques road show or something

I don't really think that it is an antique. The logo on the front was one of the original logos they were going to use for the movie, but changed their mind to the one they use now. It seems like it is only a few years old at the most. If it isn't , then it has been cared for very carefully. It's in mint to excellent shape.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by jethroted
A pirated copy? I hope it's not, because I spent $75 on it. I've never really seen a pirated book before though. Wouldn't it cost a lot more to make the book then to go and buy it? I hope it's legit. :eek:

It's highly likely; in fact, without any printing or copyright info anywhere in the book, it would be my number one guess as to the origins of the book.

Not too long ago, book pirating was a very profitable industry. Pirates made a mint pressing DH Lawrence's books. There's about two ways they can do it: the photographic method (looks like a photocopy; text is not as clear as an original printing) or they can reset the whole thing (it will have some parts missing; spelling might be changed; typos will be present). It wasn't like they just pressed a one-off; they would make huge runs of the books and peddle them to booksellers or direct to customers.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by pseudobrit
It's highly likely; in fact, without any printing or copyright info anywhere in the book, it would be my number one guess as to the origins of the book.

Not too long ago, book pirating was a very profitable industry. Pirates made a mint pressing DH Lawrence's books. There's about two ways they can do it: the photographic method (looks like a photocopy; text is not as clear as an original printing) or they can reset the whole thing (it will have some parts missing; spelling might be changed; typos will be present). It wasn't like they just pressed a one-off; they would make huge runs of the books and peddle them to booksellers or direct to customers.

If that was the case wouldn't there be more people out there who have seen it before? By the way, the guy from the web site you guys posted has not seen it before, and he has seen it all. I'm sure he would have run accross it at some point. Don't you? I've been doing a ton of searching to find this thing anywhere, and I have not seen it even once. Not even something close to it.

[jethroted]

OK, I sent the photo to a couple of people who might know something about the books. We will see what they have to say.

[medea]

Though since you bought this at a garage sale it's probably not likely, my guess is that the book is probably a early copy or mock up of a version that was brought out befor the movie came out. Didn't you ask the people at the garage sale?

[MacBandit]

I started thinking about it and I know a few obsessive people personally that would just for the hell of it make their own copy of a book just to do it. Some of these people have their own printing business including press so they could just do that. Simply put if someone has enough money or enough time they can do anything especially if they are slightly obsessive.

[jethroted]

Though since you bought this at a garage sale it's probably not likely, my guess is that the book is probably a early copy or mock up of a version that was brought out befor the movie came out. Didn't you ask the people at the garage sale?


Like I said, I think it was an estate sale. No one really knew what was what. They were pretty intent on just trying to get rid of all the crap that was there.

[marlow]

Growing up I had aquired several copies of LOTR that looked similar but not exactly like the one pictured. There was one I remember advertised in one of the Tolkien newsletters I subscribed to that looked, from memory, the same, at least the single volume gold on 'natural brown leather'. Coost was $65 or $75 at the time. (it was being sold as a collectible, so you're on par at least. This would have been late '78-'84ish. Your book may well have been released with a dust cover as most leather bound books are. The dust cover would have contained the publishing information. The idea was to have the book seem authentic to a lucky child or true believer; once the cover is removed. "Authentic" as in from Middle Earth. Look close for discoloration that might clue a cover. Also smell the book, literally open it and stick your nose so you get a full sniff of the thing near the bind. Don't touch your nose to the paper in case it really is super old, but I doubt it. If you don't smell a musty smell it's not too terribly old. It's not like ziploc and tupperware have been around forever, so it can't be too fresh, paper will take moisture from the air. If you smell any sort of ink, like a newspaper, it's not too old. Also check the edges for disoloration, another sign of age and quality. Also check the glued areas, the leather and the bind. Any sign of deterioration of the glue, not 'rot', but basic break down.
Now that you feel like a complete moron for sniffing and picking the book like a dog with a new friend you can look at some obvious things. Quality of type. Old type was set page by page in lead, there will be differences in letters even on the same page due to the inpurity of the type lead which was re-used infinately. The cleaner the type the newer the book. 'Dirty' type doesn't make it an old book though. My father's printing company was using lead type to print Dungeons and Dragons books on one side of the plant while the other half was running the most cutting edge presses to print the Star Wars heat transfers. ( I was in geek heaven growing up :) ) Also look at the paper. The 'flecks' look too 'pretty', they are probably meant to make it look older, a true period craft book would more than likely be of a higher grade without the speckles as much as possible as opposed to having them 'showcased'. Impurities would have been a sign of lower grade paper for handcrafted books.
Bottom line here should really be how much YOU treasure the book personally. If you cherish it as a find, it is priceless to you and you can carry as much fantasy in it as you did or still do in the stories it houses. If you bought it as an investment, it's only worth what someone will pay you. It's not like you can take the book to the bank and cash it.
If you are so inclined to research further I would try to find copies of the "Fellowship of the Ring" and other newsletters. The one I remember the ad from was basically an 8 page (two 11"x17" folded and nested sheets) newsletter; printed black on ecru paper of about 100# text weight. I'm specific there because I can't for the life of me remember the exact name, just the excitement I had getting each one in the mail. It came fan folded to #10 envelope size.
Good luck and enjoy your book.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by marlow
Growing up I had aquired several copies of LOTR that looked similar but not exactly like the one pictured. There was one I remember advertised in one of the Tolkien newsletters I subscribed to that looked, from memory, the same, at least the single volume gold on 'natural brown leather'. Coost was $65 or $75 at the time. (it was being sold as a collectible, so you're on par at least. This would have been late '78-'84ish. Your book may well have been released with a dust cover as most leather bound books are. The dust cover would have contained the publishing information. The idea was to have the book seem authentic to a lucky child or true believer; once the cover is removed. "Authentic" as in from Middle Earth. Look close for discoloration that might clue a cover. Also smell the book, literally open it and stick your nose so you get a full sniff of the thing near the bind. Don't touch your nose to the paper in case it really is super old, but I doubt it. If you don't smell a musty smell it's not too terribly old. It's not like ziploc and tupperware have been around forever, so it can't be too fresh, paper will take moisture from the air. If you smell any sort of ink, like a newspaper, it's not too old. Also check the edges for disoloration, another sign of age and quality. Also check the glued areas, the leather and the bind. Any sign of deterioration of the glue, not 'rot', but basic break down.
Now that you feel like a complete moron for sniffing and picking the book like a dog with a new friend you can look at some obvious things. Quality of type. Old type was set page by page in lead, there will be differences in letters even on the same page due to the inpurity of the type lead which was re-used infinately. The cleaner the type the newer the book. 'Dirty' type doesn't make it an old book though. My father's printing company was using lead type to print Dungeons and Dragons books on one side of the plant while the other half was running the most cutting edge presses to print the Star Wars heat transfers. ( I was in geek heaven growing up :) ) Also look at the paper. The 'flecks' look too 'pretty', they are probably meant to make it look older, a true period craft book would more than likely be of a higher grade without the speckles as much as possible as opposed to having them 'showcased'. Impurities would have been a sign of lower grade paper for handcrafted books.
Bottom line here should really be how much YOU treasure the book personally. If you cherish it as a find, it is priceless to you and you can carry as much fantasy in it as you did or still do in the stories it houses. If you bought it as an investment, it's only worth what someone will pay you. It's not like you can take the book to the bank and cash it.
If you are so inclined to research further I would try to find copies of the "Fellowship of the Ring" and other newsletters. The one I remember the ad from was basically an 8 page (two 11"x17" folded and nested sheets) newsletter; printed black on ecru paper of about 100# text weight. I'm specific there because I can't for the life of me remember the exact name, just the excitement I had getting each one in the mail. It came fan folded to #10 envelope size.
Good luck and enjoy your book.

Well judging by the things you have listed, it does not seem to be that old. Although I don't think there ever was a sleeve, because the guy who had it, took amazing care of it, and for him to lose the sleeve seems unlikely. It is pricless to me, and I am not really trying to find a monitary value as much as I'm trying to see where it came from out of curiosity. It's an absolutly beautiful book, and is quite a mystery. It's also a lot of fun trying to solve the mystery of it all I think.

[Zaid]

Does the book have the maps and appendicies? Are they of the same quality as the rest of the book?

normally pirated copies just photoset the maps and appendicies.

Also i think really early editions are missing the appendicies.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by Zaid
Does the book have the maps and appendicies? Are they of the same quality as the rest of the book?

normally pirated copies just photoset the maps and appendicies.

Also i think really early editions are missing the appendicies.

It has the appendicies, but no maps, and no index at the back. It also has no preface or foreward.

[Zaid]

Originally posted by jethroted
It has the appendicies, but no maps, and no index at the back. It also has no preface or foreward.

This sounds like a very odd edition (maybe a home job). I'd want one just coz its so very unusual

[jethroted]

Originally posted by Zaid
This sounds like a very odd edition (maybe a home job). I'd want one just coz its so very unusual

I know, the more everyone is digging around, and coming up empty handed, the more I like it. Even if it is a pirated copy. At this point I don't care. I just love it.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by Zaid
This sounds like a very odd edition (maybe a home job). I'd want one just coz its so very unusual

A home job was one of my suggestions too. Though I have Tolkien books with no maps and no indexes that in itself is not rare for Tolkien books. The very first Tolkien books I received as a kid were normal paper back novels and they didn't have maps or indexes which caused me to buy one of those great big books with all the maps in detail.

[jethroted]

Originally posted by MacBandit
A home job was one of my suggestions too. Though I have Tolkien books with no maps and no indexes that in itself is not rare for Tolkien books. The very first Tolkien books I received as a kid were normal paper back novels and they didn't have maps or indexes which caused me to buy one of those great big books with all the maps in detail.

What ones don't have that stuff? I though they all did.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by jethroted
What ones don't have that stuff? I though they all did.

Cheap novel type ones. The cheap paperback novel series that I originally got didn't have any sketches, pictures, or maps it did have a photos on the covers though.

[jethroted]

Still hoping to hear something from someone who might recognize the book.