WWDC 2003 Rumor Roundup (970s, PowerBooks, Panther, etc...)

[MacRumors]

The rumors have been flying as Apple's 2003 World Wide Developers Conference (http://www.apple.com/wwdc) approaches.

With only a week left before the event (6/23/2003), MacRumors.com provides this Rumor Roundup as a summary of the major rumors circulating around the Mac Web. This roundup is subject to change... as last minute details tend to leak out in the days prior to the event.

So stay tuned, but in the meanwhile, here's what to expect...

The Processor Announcement

The first indication of something brewing appeared in August 2002 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/08/20020808110527.shtml) with a topic description for the 2002 Microprocessor Forum quietly appearing on their site. This blurb described the introduction of "a new 64-bit PowerPC microprocessor" by IBM at the October, 2002 conference. This description, as well as a description of a 160-instruction vector unit, spawned speculation that this new processor was destined for use by Apple.


When the IBM 970 details emerged (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021013180917.shtml) in October 2002, it became clear that the new chip was perfect for use in future Macs -- with its 32-Bit PPC backward compatibility (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021015205024.shtml) and Altivec compatibility (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/10/20021021023740.shtml).


Amidst rumors and speculation of the 970's future use, Apple announced (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/03/20030321193212.shtml) that this year's World Wide Developers Conference (WWDC) would be postponed from May, 2003 to June, 2003 in order to provide developers a preview of Panther (Mac OS X 10.3). Rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/03/20030325130959.shtml), however, quickly emerged that claimed WWDC's delay was due to the ongoing development of PowerPC 970-based PowerMacs.


PowerMacs


Most of the early rumors regarding upcoming PowerMac updates originated from MacBidouille.com (http://www.macbidouille.com) -- a french news and rumors website. This MacBidouille rumor summary (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030507134805.shtml) provides details of their reports as of May 7, 2003.

While initial reports indicated a demoing of the 970 PowerMacs at WWDC, later reports claimed that mass production (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030527091120.shtml) of the 970 PowerMacs had begun with plans of immediate availability at WWDC. Another site (MacWhispers (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030610012111.shtml)) also claims that 970 PowerMacs are currently in production. Contrary to both of these accounts, however, are reliable reports (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030611190917.shtml) that 970 PowerMacs will not be ready for shipping by WWDC.

Even if not shipping, PowerMac 970 technology introduction and demonstrations are expected at WWDC.

Motherboard

Motherboard technologies in the new machines described by MacBidouille include Hypertransport (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030410090159.shtml), DDR400, USB 2.0, and AGP 8x (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030228021902.shtml). These specs have been corroborated by other rumors, as well as a CNet report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030612222638.shtml).

Case

Hints of case designs have emerged, with the most detailed description arising from a cryptic Appleinsider report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030610191919.shtml). The new machines are described as "silver and graphite in color" with "4 handles but they are thinner and less extrusive" and "the front of the machine is flourished by this mesh metallic surface".


PowerBooks


Speculation and rumors about 15" PowerBook updates have been ongoing since the introduction of the 12" and 17" PowerBooks in January, leaving the 15" PowerBook's design a bit dated in comparison. (PowerPage.org (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030521115723.shtml), Kodawarisan (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030602010641.shtml), Page 2 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030606011050.shtml)). The most ambitious report comes from MacWhispers (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030610012111.shtml) with claims that 970 PowerBooks are in production at this time. In contrast, MacBidouille expects (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030505020041.shtml) a 2004 target date for 970 based PowerBooks and historically has been a more reliable source of information than MacWhispers.

Panther

Surpisingly few details about Panther have been leaked over the past few months, despite being the only confirmed product demonstration at WWDC. eWeek provided (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030421234821.shtml) some details on Panther, describing features putting the "User at the Center" of the OS. Features confirmed/described include a Fast User Switching feature (MacOSRumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030415212112.shtml)), Piles (Patent (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030414200722.shtml)), and more database structures to the filesystem (MacBidouille (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/03/20030326012245.shtml)).

Other features described by Looprumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030520225557.shtml) include increased use of Metal, Themes, iChat 2.0, Safari GM, and other minor improvements... along with doubts that Piles will make it into the complete Panther.

Other Info

- WWDC's Keynote will be shown (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030614011005.shtml) at U.S. Apple Stores with theatres. No word yet on a webstream.

- New iChat, and Apple Camera (http://www.thinksecret.com/news/videoconf.html) reports from ThinkSecret were pulled by Apple early this month. Similar features were confirmed (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030421115609.shtml) previously, along with recent hints at a communication device (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030421115609.shtml).

- Special attention should be paid to the 1 Inifinite Cantina article (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030610191919.shtml) -- as this article likely represents an accurate source of information.



Final Notes

With one week left before WWDC and the Keynote speech... it's best to remind our readers to have some perspective prior to the big event -- especially for new readers and recent switchers.

As a rumor site, MacRumors' gathers and reports on the entire range of rumors and possibilities for the expo. While we try to focus on more accurate/reliable reports, rumors always tend to span the entire range -- from the mundane to the impossible. The actual truth lies somewhere in the middle.

Expectations should be grounded in realism... with a bit of hope for the unexpected. As with all expos, there will be groups of users pleased, ambivalent, or outright angry with the outcome.

[Zenith]

Can't wait for WWDC with all these rumors in the air. Only a week remaining now...

[Tiauguinho]

Thanks for the roundup Arn. I surely hope that they webcast this event! And please Apple... make the PPC 970 debut now!

[me_17213]

I need a new PMac to go with my new iPod that I just got (my first!).

Damn I love my iPod.

[Coca-Cola]

Well, I think a vast number of us have been watching and waiting for almost a year now. A little over a week to go now. I am so excited. I am freaking out.
I wish I could be there at the wwdc. It will be glorious.

[Philippe Robin]

Just a quick note to say that French sites report that one of the main french PC & Mac retail chain report powermac & 15inch powerbook to be unavailable or discontinued.

I have seen that chain's web site and it is true, so I firmly beleive that the new 15 inch Powerbook and powermac g4's replacement are coming soon.

P.

[Brother Mugga]

If Apple play a canny (970-shaped) hand then they could have at least 5 new switchers by the end of next week (myself and four of my students....not that I abuse the teacher/pupil relationship...).

If they arse it up, I'm afraid they may well lose us all to The Dark Side for some time.

Here's hoping, yeah?

Brother Mugga

[Vonnie]

Oh, I hope that the beos like database-filesystem for panther will come true.. I hope it will be opensource too. :-)

[eunuchs]

Since when is AtAT a "reliable" source? Particularly considering they posted a followup article explicitly disavowing any insider information.

And that Cantina article is a joke... I don't see why we should give it "special consideration".

Boys, at WWDC we're going to see a Panther preview and hear announcements of PowerMacs that we won't see for at least 2 months.

This is not the second coming of Jobs.

[arn]

Originally posted by eunuchs
Since when is AtAT a "reliable" source? Particularly considering they posted a followup article explicitly disavowing any insider information.


Read this article (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030611190917.shtml) again. AppleTurn's quote is irrelevant to the purpose/point of the article.


And that Cantina article is a joke... I don't see why we should give it "special consideration".

I guess we'll see... ;)

arn

[eunuchs]

Originally posted by arn
Read this article (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030611190917.shtml) again. AppleTurn's quote is irrelevant to the purpose/point of the article.Here's what AtAT had to say about their "faintest rumblings":

Whoops! It seems that, once again, we have inadvertently driven scores of Mac fans to their untimely and needless deaths. Who knew that a quick and heavily-tempered throwaway caution about some lingering third-hand doubts surrounding a Power Mac G5 intro at WWDC that we slapped in at the end of a book report would send so many excitable rumor junkies scurrying for the nearest high window ledge? Looking back, it's all so terribly, terribly funny. Tragic. We mean "tragic."

Look, folks, here's the scoop: first of all, as the oft-ignored disclaimer at the bottom of this page should imply, AtAT is not a source for insider information; we don't have operatives hiding behind Steve's ficus plant while the man rehearses his big speech...

Unfortunately, everyone and his grandmother apparently leapt upon that "faintest rumblings" bit, and while many sites took it in the spirit it was offered, a few of them linked to it as some sort of incontrovertible evidence that the 970 doesn't really exist...

If you're referring to eWeek, I'll give you that... but using AtAT to corroborate anything is basically circular. They're probably referring to the same "faintest rumblings" that the others are.

[arn]

Originally posted by eunuchs
Here's what AtAT had to say about their "faintest rumblings":

If you're referring to eWeek, I'll give you that... but using AtAT to corroborate anything is basically circular. They're probably referring to the same "faintest rumblings" that the others are.

'reliable reports' referred to eWeek and this report (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030521023700.shtml). Again, AppleTurns' quote was just a launching point for that article. I fully admit that AppleTurns did not put any stock into the rumblings. It doesn't affect the point of that article which is the following:


this information is consistent with previous notes that Apple's PowerMac 970's were not far enough along to be able to provide shipping machines at WWDC. A recent eWeek report also suggests that Mac OS X 10.2.7 will not be ready for a month or so after WWDC -- pushing PowerMac 970's potential ship date into August, at the earliest.

[gwuMACaddict]

Originally posted by eunuchs
Since when is AtAT a "reliable" source?

the two websites that i read in the morning before cnn and foxnews are macrumors and AtAT. best news around.

and always more reliable than jayson blair stories in the ny times ;)

and i'm still hoping for the second coming of Jobs :D

[Fredo Viola]

I too am in insane suspence! I'm an AfterEffects designer, and if Apple doesn't show serious signs of picking up the slack in their proc speeds at the WWDC I might be a partial switcher as well, in that I will be forced to buy a pc setup for AE work. Please, Steve! Heed our prayers!!!

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by Coca-Cola
Well, I think a vast number of us have been watching and waiting for almost a year now.

When the dual 1 Gig PowerMacs came out a year and a half ago, I was conflicted as to whether to buy then. The rumors for the G5 were already circulating, and I expected the new machines by last summer.

I wound up buying the dual 1 Gig (and 22" cinema display, and added my 20" Dell/Trinitron CRT), and now I am glad I did not wait.

[skunk]

"Compatibilty", Arn, not "compatability". The Unofficial Spelling Monitor. ;)

[Macmaniac]

I can't wait, now if I can only get my cable modem in time, I can watch the keynote without having to watch half sound half video through my 56k connection! Hurry Comcast ship it to me!!

[Vlade]

Originally posted by Macmaniac
I can't wait, now if I can only get my cable modem in time, I can watch the keynote without having to watch half sound half video through my 56k connection! Hurry Comcast ship it to me!!

I don't think there webcasting it... are they?

[BaghdadBob]

Apple is really hyping this expo. I like to think of what "could be" so I fully doubt it will live up to everything I and many others would like it to be, but I don't think they would hype it the way they have just to pump ticket sales.

Something's definitely up their sleeve. Their reputation is somewhat hanging on it at this point.

[Stella]

Its all academic really... what ever Apple release, people will still be bitching and whinning how Apple don't do X, Y and Z!

Apple release a 970 based Mac, which is a good price, an Intel Killer and other good things, and people will still find something to cry about!

;)

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by arn

I guess we'll see... ;)

arn

woo hoo! Guys, arn doesn't make predictions that he isn't sure about. If he says give that article special consideration... then he knows something. (and don't ask him to confirm or give sources- he won't, and is absolutely smart not to!)

[Mr. MacPhisto]

Well, we know Panther is going to be introduced. We can be pretty sure the 970 will be shown and a release date will at least be announced. I doubt Apple would hype WWDC so much for just Panther. I believe they didn't do any where near as much for Jaguar last year, and that was a big update to X.

So, we can probably expect PowerMacs based on the 970 by September, when Panther is released. That would be the reasonable expectation.

The wildest expectation would be the announcement that no Mac will use Motorola chips anymore. G4s will be heavily discounted and all in the Power lineup will have a 970-based machine immediately available (or debuting at a party Friday night, like the iPods). The "i" and "e" lines will all run off a PPC 750VX - an Altivec enhanced chip that can use a 400MHZ FSB-DDR fully enabled. These chips have been pressed at .10 micron in East Fishkill and Apple does have them - not sure how many they have.

I think we'll get something in between the two, although an announcement of eventual cessation of business with Motorola would not be surprising. Moto has issued warnings to stock holders about profits and other announcements coming - and the loss of Apple would give them a stock hit. Of course, Apple announcing it's use of IBM should give Apple a boost in the market. If they begin to use the IBM name and logo in advertising, they could be able to increase image stature, especially in the eyes of business. A friend of mine is a business owner, and he's told me if I'm right and IBM is on board then he'd be interested in Apple because he trusts IBM. I know IBM will be on board - so this could be big news. I'm sure people will be hearing it on CNN and the nightly news come Monday night - because it'll be a huge announcement.

[cubist]

So the pulled articles refer to the videoconferencing aspect of iChat, eh? I recall hearing rumors about that many, many moons ago. Even so, I don't feel much interest in it, and apparently neither does anyone else.

Years ago, videoconferencing excited me. I persuaded my boss to buy a bunch of QuickCams and we installed NetMeeting. Then we connected over the office LAN! Wow! Uh... Oh. Now I know why the phone company never sold Picturephone. The excitement wears off fast. Really fast. That's enough, turn it off. The QuickCams went in a box and we never used them again.

Frankly, I wish Apple would finish the work on the existing features of iChat (and iCal, FTM) before they start layering more features on top.

[cubist]

Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
... Of course, Apple announcing it's use of IBM should give Apple a boost in the market. If they begin to use the IBM name and logo in advertising, they could be able to increase image stature, especially in the eyes of business. A friend of mine is a business owner, and he's told me if I'm right and IBM is on board then he'd be interested in Apple because he trusts IBM. ...

I doubt that Apple would use the IBM name and logo in advertising. It is well known that Apple has been using IBM chips for years, however. Today's iBooks use a very fast and energy-efficient chip from IBM, the G3 Sahara. Add some RAM, and you have a machine which not only performs well, but has unbeatable battery life. On top of that, it's among Apple's most affordable machines!

[From Win to Mac]

a fully reliable video conference system would definately help. And I'm sure all the other iChat problems (like the interface...) will be taken care of.

And it's true, MacRumors is pretty reliable... and since many of its sources come from the reports of other websites, all fumbles go to the source sites, when Arn writes the Winners and Losers roundup. So basically, MR can't be wrong. ;)
Actually, i like having a site like MR, because i no longer have to go to Think Secret, Apple Insider, MOSR (lol), SpyMac and MacBidouille every day.

[pyrotoaster]

Nice round-up, arn.

But you don't have any thoughts on the Powerbook situation?

[MrMacMan]

Ah roundups are always good before a significant meeting.

And thanks you for the slap in the face everyone needs.

Seriously they might not even say anything significant.

I am still saying fall, not summer.

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by cubist
I doubt that Apple would use the IBM name and logo in advertising. It is well known that Apple has been using IBM chips for years, however. Today's iBooks use a very fast and energy-efficient chip from IBM, the G3 Sahara. Add some RAM, and you have a machine which not only performs well, but has unbeatable battery life. On top of that, it's among Apple's most affordable machines! As the old saying goes, "Nobody ever got fired for buying from IBM."

I agree with the original post, an IBM/Apple marketting initiative, much like one the Intel has with all the WinTel shops might be a very good idea.

FWIW, they do it today with Nintendo. My GameCube box has an IBM technology inside type logo on it. (Heck it even has an ATI graphics logo on the machine itself - talk about marketting deals!)

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by From Win to Mac

Actually, i like having a site like MR, because i no longer have to go to Think Secret, Apple Insider, MOSR (lol), SpyMac and MacBidouille every day.

Yeah, me too. But I still end up going to those sites anyway.......I am addicted. :)

1 week to go!

http://3cmug.co.uk/countdown.html

[mathiasr]

No word about the 19" eMac? Macbidouille wrote in their forums, that the boxes recently shipped to one of the biggest Mac reseller in France contain 15" PowerBooks and 19" eMacs.

[donigian]

Let's hope and pray for all our wishes to come true, but ... let's be realistic (or pesimistic). We know (from Apple) that Panther will be released. We know nothing else for certain. 15" PowerBook updates should be expected, but not necessarily 970-based. PowerMac updates can be anticipated, but that is uncertain.

Private to Steve Jobs: Please surprise us all. Blow the socks off of everyone and give Michael Dell and Bill Gates a run for their money. Making the "Pro" product line all 970 will give them heart attacks. They have people who care enough to call 911, so don't worry about that. Just surprise us in a positive way, don't disappoint.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by mathiasr
No word about the 19" eMac? Macbidouille wrote in their forums, that the boxes recently shipped to one of the biggest Mac reseller in France contain 15" PowerBooks and 19" eMacs.
There is no 19 inch eMac. It's completely unrealistic.

Either that, or there is one and it has a 2.5 GHz Motorola PowerPC G5 in it. :rolleyes:

[bikertwin]

I'm not sure why Arn puts so much faith in the eWeek article. It says it'll be a month or two before 10.2.7, with 970 support, is released. But by then (Aug/Sep), Panther will be released.

Does anyone think Apple would spend time & energy on 10.2.7 for a 3-week effective lifespan?

It just doesn't seem believable. 970's have to be available by the first week of July or even WWDC itself.

[fpnc]

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Apple is really hyping this expo.
<...edit...>
Something's definitely up their sleeve. Their reputation is somewhat hanging on it at this point.

Of course the "hyping" could simply mean that Panther will be one of the truly big events this year for Apple (which is pretty much a given). On the pessimistic side one could even say that Panther might turn out to be the one and only big thing for the remainder of the year. That and some speed bumps for the existing G3/G4 machines may be all that will happen for the next three to six months (i.e. no PPC970s until very late this year, or maybe not until early 2004).

Apple will also be pushing (duh) QuarkXPress 6, Final Cut Pro 4, DVD Studio Pro 2, the new iPods and the iTunes Music Store.

As for other rumors, I think an upgrade to iChat is fairly certain, and it's possible that this will include video conferencing. They'll probably demo this at WWDC and ship within the next few months (or sooner).

I think people are over estimating the impact that these WWDC rumors have had on Apple. I'd guess that only a few percent of Mac users have even heard these latest rumors. It's true that many who attend WWDC will be disappointed if there isn't a PPC970 introduction, but the entire Macintosh user base is __not__ going to revolt if the PPC970 doesn't appear before the end of summer (actually, I expect that the vast majority could remain ignorant about the PPC970 for at least several more months -- if need be).

I'm really hoping that we'll have PPC970 hardware before the end of June (as long as it's not a complete "hack" job). But I continue to believe that the earliest we'll see these rumored machines is September.

P.S. I forgot, there will also be a new 15.4 inch PowerBook introduced fairly soon, that may turn out to be the major hardware announcement that happens either before or at WWDC (but, it will be G4 based).

[vniow]

Here's (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26308) a rundown of MacBidouille's track record just to give people an idea of their reliabilty record, I made it around the time when they were spewing out 970 rumors out of nowhere.

[chetwilliams]

Originally posted by bikertwin
I'm not sure why Arn puts so much faith in the eWeek article. It says it'll be a month or two before 10.2.7, with 970 support, is released. But by then (Aug/Sep), Panther will be released.

Does anyone think Apple would spend time & energy on 10.2.7 for a 3-week effective lifespan?

It is very likely that the code that is used to enable the 970 and, more importantly, supports the new motherboard design is the same in Smeagol (10.2.7) and Panther (10.3). All of that enabling code would be incorporated into the two development paths. So, for Apple, it doesn't take much more effort to develop but they get about a month of extra hardware sales. It would be a travesty if Apple would throw away a month of hardware sales because they didn't want to invest the trivial effort needed to incorporate the 970/motherboard enabling code into an interim release.

[GregGomer]

I don't care if the 970's ship at the WWDC, I just hope that they are announced and talked about. Even if they don't ship for a few months, i.e. like the iMac and 17" powerbooks.

And it would make sense, they would mention it at the developer conference, so those who will make the new 64 bit processors part of our lives, can begin to learn how to develop and take advantage of them.

Just my thoughts, but I think announcing it is more important then releasing, if they are announced. Especially since it's a big change, this way they can make sure that Developers understand, and can take advantage of the new units.

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by From Win to Mac
And I'm sure all the other iChat problems (like the interface...) will be taken care of.



They better, because I am about this close to going back to AIM.

[maradong]

i just can t wait anymore . WWDC is drving me crazy. Bring those wonderful things on apple. ;-)

[nickgold]

Originally posted by cubist
So the pulled articles refer to the videoconferencing aspect of iChat, eh? I recall hearing rumors about that many, many moons ago. Even so, I don't feel much interest in it, and apparently neither does anyone else.

Years ago, videoconferencing excited me. I persuaded my boss to buy a bunch of QuickCams and we installed NetMeeting. Then we connected over the office LAN! Wow! Uh... Oh. Now I know why the phone company never sold Picturephone. The excitement wears off fast. Really fast. That's enough, turn it off. The QuickCams went in a box and we never used them again.

Frankly, I wish Apple would finish the work on the existing features of iChat (and iCal, FTM) before they start layering more features on top.

That has got to be the dumbest use of webcams I've ever heard of -- hope you got fired for such a ridiculous, useless idea.

Video-chatting with friends and family members who live long distances away (not down the hallway, Einstein) is the idea. Even, *gasp* business meetings with folks who are on the other side of the country, or planet -- not hallway.

As the sage guru Bugs Bunny said, Whadda maroon! :rolleyes:

[IJ Reilly]

Originally posted by MrMacman
And thanks you for the slap in the face everyone needs.

I didn't need a slap in the face. In fact I never need one.

:D

[Mudbug]

What if we're missing something. Say there happens to be the mother of all devices that simplifies everything, and we have yet to even get a whisper of it. There's plenty of good ideas rolling around in both the MR forums and #macrumors chatroom to fuel a development group for years with stuff that most folks have never thought of. I just think we may be missing that one more thing...

[fpnc]

Originally posted by GregGomer
I don't care if the 970's ship at the WWDC, I just hope that they are announced and talked about. Even if they don't ship for a few months, i.e. like the iMac and 17" powerbooks.


I don't think a long preannounce would make much sense, it would only "trash" the sales of the existing G4 PowerMacs.


And it would make sense, they would mention it at the developer conference, so those who will make the new 64 bit processors part of our lives, can begin to learn how to develop and take advantage of them.


I don't think this is needed either. Very, very few applications will even need 64-bit processing and nearly all should run on the PPC970 without modification. In fact the first release of a "64"-bit OS X will just run each application in its own 32-bit memory space. Thus each application will be limited to 2GB but the total system will support more. They may even implement a 64-bit compatibility mode that will be required when applications want to make use of the larger memory space. Then there will be the PPC970 compiler switch or flag that will enable applications to take advantage of 64-bit math and other PPC970-specific instructions. In any case, the "big boys" (Microsoft, Adobe, Oracle, Quark, etc.) will get preferred PPC970 seeding before the rest of us. So, I think there is actually very little reason to preannounce the PPC970 at WWDC. Most of the developers will be plenty busy just catching up to Panther and/or Jaguar.

[OSeXy!]

Nice round-up, Arn. You look after your readers well and take the science of rumors (rumorology?) to a new level.

Now the hard part: 7 days of waiting.

[Fender2112]

I feel like a kid on Christmas eve. Even if the 970 does not make an appearance, at least the suspence will be over. I've been itching to get a new machine. Hopefully WWDC will bring new toys to pick from.

[DaveGee]

Originally posted by Macrumors
Panther

Surpisingly few details about Panther have been leaked over the past few months, despite being the only confirmed product demonstration at WWDC. eWeek provided (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030421234821.shtml) some details on Panther, describing features putting the "User at the Center" of the OS. Features confirmed/described include a Fast User Switching feature (MacOSRumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030415212112.shtml)), Piles (Patent (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/04/20030414200722.shtml)), and more database structures to the filesystem (MacBidouille (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/03/20030326012245.shtml)).

Other features described by Looprumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030520225557.shtml) include increased use of Metal, Themes, iChat 2.0, Safari GM, and other minor improvements... along with doubts that Piles will make it into the complete Panther.[/B]

Arn,

Thank you for saying this... (Surpisingly few details...) I thought I was the only person who felt that way.

I was getting the feeling that everyone forgot that WWDC isn't USUALLY a hardware centric event. (yea I know PowerBook G3 back in 99 or 98). The WWDC is mostly about the OS and each year something reliable usually leaks... In the past ThinkSecret usually has reports with 'alpha/beta' screenshots for goodness sakes..

This year what do we have?

Lots and lots of speculation on the 970 (with good reason I'm sure) but MUCH of the rumors have come from sites that have a less than perfect track record.

Next to ZERO speculation on Panther, the one thing we know for sure WILL be presented at WWDC.

Don't get me wrong, faster CPUs will be a welcome sight but WWDC is still 'All about the OS' - the CPU just lets you do more 'cool stuff' with it.

Dave

[buseman]

My predictions:

970's showed behind closed doors at WWDC (Did you know John Carmack had the G4's 6 months before they were released?, the same limited seeding will undoubtly happen with the 970).

Public announcment in late July (at very earliest)

Release in September at earliest.

I wonder what our french friends over at Macbidoule actually are smokin' when they seriously believe a release only one week from now.

EDIT: For those in doubt, Panther will run perfectly on older hardware like G3's and older Powerbooks.

[Laurent]

Originally posted by DaveGee
Next to ZERO speculation on Panther, the one thing we know for sure WILL be presented at WWDC.

DaveWhat about the fact that it might be 64-bit optimized? Piles? Brushed-metal-themed? iChat v2.0? Pal?

What do you want to speculate about?

[TMA]

This story has been slashdotted! (sorry if anyone had already mentioned this)

http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/06/15/2356257&mode=nested&tid=107&tid=187

[centauratlas]

I am going to have to switch to Safari GM just to get rid of the pop-ups on MacRumors.com ;-)

[DaveGee]

Originally posted by Laurent
What about the fact that it might be 64-bit optimized? Piles? Brushed-metal-themed? iChat v2.0? Pal?

What do you want to speculate about?

I should have been more clear... Speculation from random sources, SURE we got a fair bit... What I was REALLY looking for was something more like this:

"Mac OS X 10.2 in Early Development: Jaguar Hits 6B11 (with images)" - Dec 2001 - ThinkSecret Report

"Mac OS X 10.2: More early Jaguar notes and information (with images)" - Jan 2002 - ThinkSecret Report

Solid reports with a good reliable site backing up their reports will screenshots etc.

We've seen nothing like that this year... and IIRC this is one of the first times something like this has happened.

Dave

[TMA]

What about this for information on Panther? Doesn't seem too reliable/in depth to me but take a look:

http://geocities.com/willywalloo/inside/stories/02003.03.14panther.html

[e-coli]

I am beginning to find it absurdly laughable the amount of time we've been waiting for the "G5". The first G5 rumors date back to August of 2000. And every major event, we've all been saying "it's coming". But it never does.

It's kind of a joke at this point. When it finally arrives, I might bust out in hysterical laughter.

The G5 will be anounced to the public by the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

[montefuego]

here is my idea for the biggest news of all: IBM announces that not only will it's new blade servers run Linux, but will also run OSX server, and they are now in alliance with Apple to provide a united front against Microsoft. Why not? It seems like the smart thing to do. Anyone know why this would not be possible? Don't you think it would be a great idea?

[will]

Originally posted by montefuego
here is my idea for the biggest news of all: IBM announces that not only will it's new blade servers run Linux, but will also run OSX server, and they are now in alliance with Apple to provide a united front against Microsoft. Why not? It seems like the smart thing to do. Anyone know why this would not be possible? Don't you think it would be a great idea?

Nope, it's crazy idea. IBM are moving towards being the one-stop-shop for IT. They don't need a 'front' against Microsoft, and they sell millions of PCs running Windows as part of lucrutive service agreements.

That's not to say IBM might not use OS X (I personally think it's unlikely), but the idea that IBM are somehow going to pitch into a battle against MS is ridiculous.

I want to see fast, innovative and affordable machines from Apple. The computer industry is not a religious war. Apple should concentrate on delivering great products, not undermining Microsoft.

My two pence/cents worth.

[dbenesch]

Here's a serious question. Has Apple *EVER* demoed a hardware technology without announcing an actual announced product? I can't think of anything. The only thing that even resembles this is the demoing of iTunes Rendezvous sharing. However, considering that is a free product, demoing it didn't hurt sales of any existing product at all.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by dbenesch
Here's a serious question. Has Apple *EVER* demoed a hardware technology without announcing an actual announced product? I can't think of anything. The only thing that even resembles this is the demoing of iTunes Rendezvous sharing. However, considering that is a free product, demoing it didn't hurt sales of any existing product at all.

they demo'd keynote MANY times before saying word one about it...

Just because you can see the screen of the mac, doesn't mean you have to see the box for it as well...

[FlamDrag]

now I'm a believer! Well almost:

From MacMinute:

June 16, 2003 - 08:25 EDT__ IDG World Expo today announced that Greg Joswiak, vice president of hardware product marketing at Apple, will deliver the opening feature presentation at Macworld CreativePro Conference & Expo, which runs from July 14-18 in New York City this summer. Joswiak, who leads the team responsible for all Apple desktops and portables, including the iPod and AirPort, will speak on Wednesday, July 16 at 9:30 a.m. ET.

I don't particularly believe MacBid et al. or the hype around the 970's simply because it's all been self-fed. However, it's difficult for me to overlook the fact that this bit of fact could be rather significant - but it's @ MW - NOT at WWDC. So what could this mean?

Some thoughts:

1. 970's are introduced at WWDC and available at MW.

2. No new powerbooks until MW. Powermacs at WWDC

3. Reverse #2

4. Some other yet-to-be-known bit of hardware is discussed.

5. He simply lauds the adoption of 802.11g as the standard and gives a bit "we told you so" speech and gives all the 802.11a people the finger. ;)

6. All the important Apple folk drew straws to see who'd give the opening speech and he came up short.

Thoughts?

[iSegway]

That's not to say IBM might not use OS X (I personally think it's unlikely), but the idea that IBM are somehow going to pitch into a battle against MS is ridiculous.

Is it possible that IBM or AMD or Intel could create their own operating systems(does IBM already have their own?) and hardware?

Metcalf recently mentioned that there wouldn't be a significant improvement in an OS until someone came along and built an entirely new one from the ground up. So I was wondering: do you think we will see someone come along and beat Apple at their own game? Wouldn't someone like AMD/Intel/IBM be the perfect candidates to do something like this?

Sorry if this is all off topic.

[crees!]

Originally posted by FlamDrag
now I'm a believer! Well almost:

From MacMinute:



I don't particularly believe MacBid et al. or the hype around the 970's simply because it's all been self-fed. However, it's difficult for me to overlook the fact that this bit of fact could be rather significant - but it's @ MW - NOT at WWDC. So what could this mean?

Some thoughts:

1. 970's are introduced at WWDC and available at MW.

2. No new powerbooks until MW. Powermacs at WWDC

3. Reverse #2

4. Some other yet-to-be-known bit of hardware is discussed.

5. He simply lauds the adoption of 802.11g as the standard and gives a bit "we told you so" speech and gives all the 802.11a people the finger. ;)

6. All the important Apple folk drew straws to see who'd give the opening speech and he came up short.

Thoughts?

WWDC, MWCP... I don't care.. I CAN'T WAIT ANY LONGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For someone who is getting their first mac..... aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh

The Powerbooks better be sooner than later *

[DaveGee]

Originally posted by dbenesch
Here's a serious question. Has Apple *EVER* demoed a hardware technology without announcing an actual announced product? I can't think of anything.

Here's an easy one... The G4 at WWDC 1999

[dhdave]

Originally posted by e-coli:

I am beginning to find it absurdly laughable the amount of time we've been waiting for the "G5". The first G5 rumors date back to August of 2000. And every major event, we've all been saying "it's coming". But it never does.

It's kind of a joke at this point. When it finally arrives, I might bust out in hysterical laughter.

The G5 will be anounced to the public by the four horsemen of the apocalypse.

I said as much last year. I believe that the G5 at least as it was originally conceived has been vaporware for quite some time. Meanwhile we speculate and continue to speculate. Even AFTER the existence of the 970 has fully come to light (not necessarily it's use, but it's existence is a certainty) people are still speculating on a G5 in some kind of interim use. Forget the G5. If Apple calls any cpu a G5 it WILL NOT, I repeat, WILL NOT be the actual G5 that was originally envisioned. It will be a new or CPU, or tweaked G4 that will be called the G5. A G5 in name only. Moto is history. RIP you bastards. There I feel much better.

dh

[eric67]

Originally posted by FlamDrag
now I'm a believer! Well almost:

From MacMinute:



I don't particularly believe MacBid et al. or the hype around the 970's simply because it's all been self-fed. However, it's difficult for me to overlook the fact that this bit of fact could be rather significant - but it's @ MW - NOT at WWDC. So what could this mean?

Some thoughts:

1. 970's are introduced at WWDC and available at MW.

2. No new powerbooks until MW. Powermacs at WWDC

3. Reverse #2

4. Some other yet-to-be-known bit of hardware is discussed.

5. He simply lauds the adoption of 802.11g as the standard and gives a bit "we told you so" speech and gives all the 802.11a people the finger. ;)

6. All the important Apple folk drew straws to see who'd give the opening speech and he came up short.

Thoughts?

OK I think just wait and see,
It is quite clear that new PowerMac are coming, simply by the fact that in many place in Europe you simply can not place any order for such machine. In addition, in France, the 15'' and today the 12'' PB can not be delivered any more, time estimation not indicated. It is clear for me that at the WWDC new powermac, and PB15'', and at the MW, just demo and info. I think it is also clear by the fact that Steve Job himself does not give the keynote at MW, since all the new products will be introduced at the WWDC.
let's wait and see, but I bet I am right
one can always dream...

[scan300]

announcements that are made will be relevant for a developers conference...

here's some predictions that's certain:
"a new tool enabling the speech synthesizer to copy the emotion and personality of a recorded human voice"

or this one...
"Apple is introducing a new API to give you access to more advanced handwriting features."

or this...
"new APIs to facilitate hardware accelerated color matching, and changes in display calibration"

or...
"get a peek into what's coming for WebObjects"

and of course...
"Panther"

These are all quotes from the WWDC session guide..

It's simple, if Panther is a '64 bit' OS then Steve will need to make a '64 bit' hardware announcement; if it isn't, there won't be a 970 hardware announcement and no 970 this year.

[benjiP]

hi everyone,

just wanted to share something that landed on my doormat here in london this morning - an invitation to an open day at cancom in croydon - 'to hear Apple's latest product announcements!'

the mind boogles

like some others here, i'm looking to switch, which i'll do as soon as rev b 970 powerbooks arrive... bring them on!

[marcsiry]

There's no way Steve would let the announcement of the most awaited development in Mac technology be delivered by one of his underlings.

Thus: 970s demo'd/announced at WWDC, with the MWCP conference being an in-depth overview of the machines.

If the 970s aren't announced at WWDC, and by my logic won't be announced at MWCP, why would they have a hardware guy give the opening presentation? They would want to spotlight the big developement from WWDC, which would be Panther in the abscence of the 970.

[Vonnie]

SearchKit is a powerful C language framework for searching, indexing, and summarizing text. Formerly known as AIAT (the Apple Information Access Toolkit) or by its code name V-Twin, SearchKit is the engine that provides fast content searching in Finder, Address Book, and Mail. Attend this session to learn how you can take advantage of this framework to provide similar functionality and powerful information access capabilities within your Mac OS X application.

Could this mean that Finder will do searches as fast as Mail and Addressbook? Maybe that BeOS like filesystem rumour will come true.

[scan300]

Originally posted by Vonnie
SearchKit is the engine that provides fast content searching in Finder, Address Book, and Mail. .

Could this mean that Finder will do searches as fast as Mail and Addressbook? Maybe that BeOS like filesystem rumour will come true.

Searchkit is already implemented in Finder.

The reason the finder takes longer to do a content search than Mail or Addressbook is that the file index is an order of magnitude larger.

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by e-coli
I am beginning to find it absurdly laughable the amount of time we've been waiting for the "G5". The first G5 rumors date back to August of 2000. And every major event, we've all been saying "it's coming". But it never does.

Is the G5 the Copland of hardware?

I ran across the following story from 1995. Sad. Scary.

http://www.businessweek.com/1995/51/b345595.htm

[-hh]

Originally posted by DaveGee
I should have been more clear... Speculation from random sources, SURE we got a fair bit... What I was REALLY looking for was something more like this:

"Mac OS X 10.2 in Early Development: Jaguar Hits 6B11 (with images)" - Dec 2001 - ThinkSecret Report

"Mac OS X 10.2: More early Jaguar notes and information (with images)" - Jan 2002 - ThinkSecret Report

Solid reports with a good reliable site backing up their reports will screenshots etc.

We've seen nothing like that this year... and IIRC this is one of the first times something like this has happened.

Dave


But if Panther is 64bit, this means that the only people who can be really running the beta's through its paces have to be on 64bit hardware prototype machines, too.

The result is that the distribution is going to be far less broad, which means fewer sources to be tempted to leak.

And with another "hush-hush" on the hardware (since it can't run without Panther), the few that do have access are going to take their NDA a lot more seriously, and be disinclined to leak.


So with fewer sources to leak from, and less likelihood that they'll choose to leak, an effective rumors lockdown shouldn't be that much of a surprise.


Now if we make that our "Null Hypothesis", does this infer that bigger, not smaller, product news is in store? Maybe. ;)



-hh

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by dbenesch
Here's a serious question. Has Apple *EVER* demoed a hardware technology without announcing an actual announced product?

Apple broadcast switch from 680x0 to PowerPC for some time before it finally arrived. I finally broke down and bought a PowerBook 520c because it would be upgradeable to PowerPC... which was right around the corner. Hah!

Apple also announced the Xserve RAID quite some time before it was ready to ship.

But generally I agree with you. Announcing a new hardware product that competes/replaces a current model line without being able to ship in a few weeks is a financially dangerous act.

[scan300]

Originally posted by JoeRadar
Is the G5 the Copland of hardware?



A new OS (OSX) eventually came out, and it wasn't Copland.

A new G5 will come out and it won't be Motorolla.

[macrumors12345]

Originally posted by gwuMACaddict
the two websites that i read in the morning before cnn and foxnews are macrumors and AtAT.


Wow, if you are mentioning AtAT in the same sentence as Fox Infotainment (err, I mean, "News"), then you must really have a dim view of AtAT's credibility!

[DaveGee]

Originally posted by -hh
But if Panther is 64bit, this means that the only people who can be really running the beta's through its paces have to be on 64bit hardware prototype machines, too.

Then by using your logic, Panther will only run on PowerPC 970 boxes but I for one (of many) don't think that's the case at all... Panther will be usable on iBooks (G3) and todays PowerMacs (G4) so, that brings us back to 'why so little true-leaks' from the Panther side of the WWDC coin?

It's quite clear that Apple has kept a super tight leach on Panther... Much tighter than any of the previous 10.X updates.

Dave

[macrumors12345]

Originally posted by benjiP
like some others here, i'm looking to switch, which i'll do as soon as rev b 970 powerbooks arrive... bring them on!

Rev B 970 Powerbooks? Geez, that's probably not going to be until 2005 or something. Well, maybe 2nd half of 2004, unless we are quite lucky...

[scan300]

Originally posted by DaveGee
It's quite clear that Apple has kept a super tight leach on Panther...
Dave

My god, Panther
isn't out of the box and already they're sucking the very life blood from it...

... oh sorry, that's supposed to be leech.

[-hh]

Originally posted by DaveGee
Then by using your logic, Panther will only run on PowerPC 970 boxes but I for one (of many) don't think that's the case at all...so, that brings us back to 'why so little true-leaks' from the Panther side of the WWDC coin?

I also expect Panther to be Backwards-compatible. Question is: how broadly do you need to test that the installer will default to preexisting (and thus, debugged) 32bit codes? Overall, it reminds me of the FAT binaries days of Apple's 68K to RISK conversion (circa OS 7 or 8; I forget).

I've also done a quick/dirty search for what Panther is supposed to be featuring, and a definitive list seems somewhat elusive. Anyone have a nice, solid list?

What I was able to find was that Panther's main items appear to be 64 bit addressing and overall speed (including mention of boot-up), plus a vague description of "user-centric capabilities".

On this last one, I recall that there were some features that we had previously heard as rumored for Jaguar, but which didn't pan out at that time. If work continued on them, we probably would have been perceived as Jaguar work, not Panther.


It's quite clear that Apple has kept a super tight leach on Panther... Much tighter than any of the previous 10.X updates.


That's for sure.


-hh


Headlines I'd like to see:

"Microsoft's Longhorn suffers Mad Cow Disease"

[Aphelion]

Originally posted by montefuego
here is my idea for the biggest news of all: IBM announces that not only will it's new blade servers run Linux, but will also run OSX server, and they are now in alliance with Apple to provide a united front against Microsoft. Why not? It seems like the smart thing to do. Anyone know why this would not be possible? Don't you think it would be a great idea?

Originally posted by Will:
Nope, it's crazy idea. IBM are moving towards being the one-stop-shop for IT. They don't need a 'front' against Microsoft, and they sell millions of PCs running Windows as part of lucrutive service agreements.

That's not to say IBM might not use OS X (I personally think it's unlikely), but the idea that IBM are somehow going to pitch into a battle against MS is ridiculous...

An announcement of a partnership between Apple and IBM would be the biggest news out of WWDC ~ far overshadowing any new chip for Apple.

A partnership would allow Apple to provide OSX server for IBM's big iron.

With the M$FT sponsored FUD surrounding Linux and the SCO Billion dollar lawsuit against IBM it would seem that the battle has been joined, Will.

Darwin support from IBM would seem a logical way to sidestep all the contriversy surrounding Linux these days (and for the rest of the decade if M$ has it's way).

An Apple / IBM partnership would be a great counter to the Wintel duopoly that controls 90% of the desktop market.

IBM couldn't care less about the desktop, but when Intel began to invade the high end server market with M$FT's help, it demanded a response from IBM.

The 970 is part of that response. A strategic alliance with Apple might be a part of IBM's plan to unseat Wintel's foray into IBM's turf.

Aphelion ...

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by -hh
But if Panther is 64bit, this means that the only people who can be really running the beta's through its paces have to be on 64bit hardware prototype machines, too.

I seem to recall reading that Apple will give developers at WWDC a copy of the Panther beta. If Panther only runs on the 970, they better give us a 970 too. :D

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Aphelion
An announcement of a partnership between Apple and IBM would be the biggest news out of WWDC ~ far overshadowing any new chip for Apple.



Um, hey, step outta that cave! Apple and IBM have had an ongoing partnership for ... what? A decade?

Think AIM, think Taligent, think PPC to begin with!

A partnership expanded in the ways you describe might be nice, but I see no indications of that yet. Just IBM stepping in, as they have before, as the high-end chip supplier ... and maybe Moto dropping out of the alliance altogether, which is bad news no matter which way you cut it.

[GeeYouEye]

Y'know what would be absolutely hilarious? Steve gets up on stage and announces the Motorola 8500 "G5" running at 1.8, 2.2, and 5GHz (this is some of the REALLY old G5 rumors).

But in all seriousness... My question is: why haven't we seen more out of ThinkSecret this time around? I mean, sure, they had that iChat stuff, but they had an almost-spot on prediction for MWSF

[Aphelion]

Apple and IBM working together seems like a good thing to give Apple some much needed credibility in Business accounts.

Obviously they have a relationship as they did in the now defunct AIM alliance, but what I am talking about is a public announcement of a partnership that goes far beyond what AIM did.

Possibly even some investment in AAPL and joint projects (Darwin?), not to mention adding OSX server support to their server lines.

[ktlx]

Originally posted by Aphelion
Darwin support from IBM would seem a logical way to sidestep all the contriversy surrounding Linux these days (and for the rest of the decade if M$ has it's way).

When people have repeatedly said this in the past, I have never understood what is in it for IBM. IBM is pushing Linux as a server operating system across the whole spectrum of its server line-up.

If I were IBM, what would be the benefit to me of running Mac OS X on my POWER/PowerPC-based servers? They are already running AIX, which is a better server OS and Mac OS X cannot run on the Intel servers or mainframe lines.

Linux makes sense to IBM because it is the one OS that can run across its complete server line and its price is right. Mac OS X doesn't seem to have any appealing qualities to IBM for its own product line. It doesn't even make sense to put it on the POWER/PowerPC servers because there already exists a better product from IBM.

[Sonofhaig]

My prediction: Panther available in September. :(
970 Macs available end of July or early August. :(
It'll be a tease until then. I hope I'm wrong.

[Sun Baked]

The Rumors, the journey they have taken the last six months has been quite interesting while people have been trying to figure out the odd rumblings (or weird decisions from Apple marketing) and see where Apple is taking us.

Some of these rumors have even played havoc with Apple's stock...

Sort of fun to see people say, Apple's doing this because that's what I dreamed, heard at a bar, imagined, etc. even when some of the dreams, directions, and drunk boastings may be contrary to the current direction Apple Marketing seems to be taking, or Apple's past history with regard to "newly introduced" hardware.

But then again, Steve Jobs has always been an expensive and passionate corporate officer when it comes to his vision -- and those that steal his thunder.

At least the AMD Opteron/Athalon-64 rumors seemed to have died. ;)

[jkl]

Have you seen the scan of the invitation for the apple event in Berlin on August 23?

(http://www.macbidouille.com/news/photonews14/bild.jpg,
http://www.macbidouille.com/news/photonews14/bild2.jpg)

The german text (roughly) says:

-------------------------------------------
Discover the future with Apple

Apple Germany invites you to a breathtaking event at the heart of Europe.

See a satellite broadcast of Steve Jobs' keynote at the WWDC in San Francisco.

This will be an unforgettable event for audio, video, publishing and media professionals. News are waiting for you that will surpass all your expectations for speed.

Be ready for a new age of computing on August 23rd, starting at 18:00h at the Adlon Palais, Hotel Adlon Berlin, Unter den Linden 77.

-----------------------------------

Looks like 970-based PowerMacs are not totally out of question...

[Windowlicker]

Found this article from slashdot.org:

SCO Terminates IBM's Unix License
Posted by CmdrTaco on Monday June 16, @04:29PM
from the lets-get-ready-to-rumble dept.
AKAImBatman writes "SCO has terminated IBM's license to use Unix code. SCO is filing for an injunction that will require IBM to cease all sale of AIX as well as accrue damages for each day IBM continues to sell AIX."

Now IBM using OSX on their servers might seem a bit more reasonable, but I still doubt it..

[ktlx]

Originally posted by Windowlicker
Now IBM using OSX on their servers might seem a bit more reasonable, but I still doubt it..

Not likely. Mac OS X is so far behind AIX in terms of industry support that if a court grants this injunction basically IBM has to fork over the money to solve the problem.

People have to remember that there is a vast difference in terms of capability and support between running Web, file and print servers on your G4 and Xserve and running enterprise applications and databases on your 32 POWER4+ processor p690.

Linux solves IBMs problem for the first class of users better than Mac OS X and Mac OS X cannot serve the second class of users at all.

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by ktlx
Linux solves IBMs problem for the first class of users better than Mac OS X and Mac OS X cannot serve the second class of users at all.


Moderators - please ban this person immediately.

He's showing signs of independent thought and he's questioning the wisdom of Jobs.

I've even seen him pour his Kool-Aid on the hydrangea when nobody was watching!

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
My prediction: Panther available in September. :(
970 Macs available end of July or early August. :(
It'll be a tease until then. I hope I'm wrong.

i agree... except I think immediate availibility of at least the low end PowerMacs, with the high end ones shipping in july or august and Panther in September. I also say new pro mouse and pro keyboard.

new displays a possibility and shipping in limited quantity with high end powermacs in july or august. I say a single processor 1.4Ghz 970, and dual 1.6 and 1.8Ghz models shipping in july or august... maybe 1.6 a single and shipping with the 1.4Ghz. all in limited quantities right now. anyway, that's my picks.

[ktlx]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
He's showing signs of independent thought and he's questioning the wisdom of Jobs.

:D

Thanks, that's funny.

But seriously, I am not questioning the wisdom of Steve Jobs. He seems to have a pretty good handle on how far behind his company is in the server space.

I am questioning the understanding of the zealots who think Mac OS X is the greatest thing since sliced bread for all tasks that a computer does.

I just cannot understand why Mac OS X would be attractive to IBM. I just do not see where it brings more to the table than a solution they already have. SCO "cancelling" IBM's UNIX license doesn't mean a thing if they cannot get the permanent injunction in court. If SCO does get the permanent injunction, then basically IBM has to fork over whatever money is required to make this go away.

[montefuego]

The appeal of OSX over Linux, rather than AIX, is for the applications that already run on it, as part of creating a seamless integration from high-end servers to the desktop. All OSX needs is porting some of the UNIX/LINUX applications over, which WE ALREADY KNOW they are doing (thinksecret, and MS hater Ellison's Oracle), and the ability to run on INTEL, which WE ALREADY KNOW apple has been working on, and we know that NEXT already did. So what OSX (with or without AIX) offers is a complete and elegant solution, filling in what is really a very sparse desktop offering for Linux. Don't you all think, that between all the MS haters in the world, McNeally, Ellison, whom we already know hang out together, that these guys don't have a plan to gang up and try and take back the space from Microsoft?

[Aphelion]

IBM would not replace it's AIX Unix or Linux offerings with OSX. OSX Server (and support) would be offered as an option to interested customers.

This would allow IBM to sell more of it's own 970 chips into accounts that like the idea of Apple's freeBSD foundation, as well as the end-to-end solution that the previous poster alluded to.

As an example, would Weta, Ltd. - a major Shake user (Lord of the Rings) have liked to had the option of using 970 based blades running OSX or Darwin in their 5 million recent IBM purchase?

Aphelion ...

[e-coli]

Originally posted by JoeRadar
Is the G5 the Copland of hardware?

I ran across the following story from 1995. Sad. Scary.

http://www.businessweek.com/1995/51/b345595.htm


My what a different world it would be had that been released. It could have been good, or very very bad.

[leicaman]

Originally posted by ktlx
Not likely. Mac OS X is so far behind AIX in terms of industry support that if a court grants this injunction basically IBM has to fork over the money to solve the problem.

People have to remember that there is a vast difference in terms of capability and support between running Web, file and print servers on your G4 and Xserve and running enterprise applications and databases on your 32 POWER4+ processor p690.

Linux solves IBMs problem for the first class of users better than Mac OS X and Mac OS X cannot serve the second class of users at all.

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Have you heard of the iTunes Music Store? Running on XServe and OS X Server.

Of course, the big iron running on AIX with real Power4 processors is the high end.

We'll see what happens if some court is stupid enough to side with SCO. Then let's see how a lot of UNIX shops treat Macs.

[ktlx]

Originally posted by leicaman
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. Have you heard of the iTunes Music Store? Running on XServe and OS X Server.

Of course, the big iron running on AIX with real Power4 processors is the high end.

From your characterization, I understand the enterprise and high end market better than you do.

The iTMS application is basically a Web front end to a file server. I never said that Mac OS X could not perform those applications, only that Linux can do the same thing and it is already working. An example is Amazon.com, which is significantly larger, and has said they switched to Linux.

Of course Apple will use their own equipment, it would be stupid not to. But that does not mean it is the best solution to the problem.

Here is my definition of what Mac OS X would need in order to play with the big boys in the enterprise market. As you can see, Mac OS X has almost none of these qualities now (although many are rumored to be in development):


Support for more than 8 processors
Support for more than 4GB of memory
Support for more than 2TB of storage
Support for attached storage via a SAN
Official support for a journaling file system
Support for large tape libraries such as those from StorageTek
Support for enterprise class backup software that runs on all server platforms (i.e. not Retrospect)
Production support for either Oracle Enterprise or DB/2
Application vendor support by someone such as SAP, Oracle, PeopleSoft, etc.


Running a Web server on a cluster of Xserves with some storage space on the back is no big deal. Pretty much all of the OSes have been able to do that for a couple of years.