Panther Screenshots, Benchmarks, Details

[MacRumors]

- One FunMac thread (http://funmac.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=14360) posts some screenshots from the developer's release of Panther.

- An AppleInsider Newsbyte (http://www.appleinsider.com/news_bytes.php) shows a shot of the Secure Deletion option which is detailed at Apple's Pages (http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/file_vault.html) -- allowing you to overwrite multiple times for more security.

- One user submitted XBench (http://xbench.com/) benchmarks from their PowerMac G4 867 in both Jaguar (10.2.6) and Panther (10.3 build 7A179) benchmarks (Download here (http://www.macrumors.com/downloads/jag_panth_benchmarks.sit)) -- while there were some significant differences in both directions, very little should be read into them as Panther is still in an early stage of development.

- Other notes (most info provided by gorman):


- Panther UI seems faster (sheets smoother, window resizing very fast, mail, finder)
- All apps do remain running with Fast User Switching
- Exposé updates apps contents live (in the small windows)
- Keychains remember settings
- New widget styles for many items such as tabs
- Command-Tab App Switcher has a nice Graphical Interface (FunMac shot (http://funmac.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=14360 ))
- System Prefs grouped more Logically

[mac15]

Benchmarks are great and they seem dramatically better

[tpjunkie]

I'm still not happy about paying 129 for the upgrade though

[MoparShaha]

I think Panther is finally going to finish off OS X, as Steve alluded to Monday. I'm so excited, all these cool new features, and did you see those xBench results? And its only beta!! :D One thing I don't care for is that iChat logs you out when you switch users. I don't understand why. On WinXP, AIM can be used by multiple accounts simultaneously. Not having iChat remain open does on some level defeat the purpose of the graphical user switching.

Anyways, I can't wait till this comes out, hopefully sooner than later. I'm curious, because Steve said it would be out by the end of the year, whereas the last WWDC when Jaguar was announced, they clearly stated it would be out at the end of summer and it was. Why would it take so much longer to release Panther? Granted its impressive, but I almost think the transition form 10.1 to 10.2 was bigger in terms of the core of the OS. And the transition to 64 bits shouldn't be a huge deal, as was stated durring the keynote.

Sorry, just random thoughts......:confused:

[mac15]

well the last WWDC was in may like it normally is and the release was in august but its not june and december. So it still ads up evenly

[inkswamp]

I just have one question: has the annoying oversight with text clippings finally been addressed (OH PLEASE OH PLEASE!) ;)

If you're wondering, in OS 9 you could open a text clipping, hit Apple+C and copy the text to the clipboard. Very quick and convenient. In OS X, that no longer worked. Someone please tell me that Panther finally reinstated this feature.

[maradong]

m waiting for it ;-)

[MoparShaha]

Originally posted by tpjunkie
I'm still not happy about paying 129 for the upgrade though I don't think $129 a year is bad at all. And I'm a student, so I don't have wads of cash to throw around either. I view the yearly cost of an OS update as a differed payment to apple for all the great stuff we get all the time--for free! iTunes in itself is almost worth the cost of the OS. Need I mention the other iApps? PC users don't get such good apps, and they have to pay for the crappy ones they do get. So before complaining, look at all the great stuff apple gives you for free; I hardly think $129 is too much to ask for all of that, plus its an upgrade in itself, and, its optional. You don't have to pay for it if you don't want to.

It just irks me that people expect apple to to spend millions of dollars developing software, and you think they owe it to you for free. Apple is a business after all......

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by mac15
Benchmarks are great and they seem dramatically better

What are you talking about, look at CPU -- jag owns
Memory -- Jag owns
Open GL -- jag again

That is what you use most of IMO.

Disk speed increase is nice tho.

[Juventuz]

Any idea as to how a person can get the Beta version of Panther?

And I don't mean a pirated version.

[mozez]

you have to be a developer, you can pay apples developer program fee, but it's wicked expensive.

[rice_web]

Though the finder window seems a little bar in its new metal skin, I like the overall look of Panther. It looks more solid, it looks like a contender. It looks pro. And, afterall, that's what Apple's doing right now, pushing the limit on processor performance, building a "fast" case design, rather than "cool", and creating an operating system that performs more fluidly than before.

The eye candy's over; it's solid now.

As far as new applications and features go, I'm quickly loving the user switching feature: yet another item for pros that need to go from user to root, user to root. The secure delete will attract the professional users seeking privacy, and the labels will reattract the organizing perfectionist power users.

I think it's a wider issue than looks here, it's a strategy change.

Apple can't compete at the $199, $249 cheap-PC level and apparently doesn't want to try. Introducing a $1999 entry-level price point is evidence to that. Apple is now the pro market, and it's trickled into Panther so terribly well.

One hundred cheers for Panther's one hundred new features (and ten just for the user switching).

[Juventuz]

Originally posted by mozez
you have to be a developer, you can pay apples developer program fee, but it's wicked expensive.

I just noticed on Apple's site. $500 is the cheapest to become a developer.

[punter]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
Not having iChat remain open does on some level defeat the purpose of the graphical user switching.
:

were you hoping to have chats with yourself? :p

$129 is a bummer, but with everything that's on offer (hardware and software) I think I'll be buying a new computer that has panther shipping with it.

I love keynotes, they restore my faith in Apple.

[mac15]

I think it just steve jobs though, he's a breathing god

[DeusOmnis]

I find it interesting that CPU, GPU, and memory take such a huge hit. I was under the impression that the benchmark wouldnt be affected by the OS in those tests, but i guess it would be. In any case, i'm sure apple will fix that. I dont want a preformance hit on MOHAA when i get panther, that's just dumb.

As far as the iChat AE thing, i'm sure either apple will make that an option (they read get the feedback before the final release) or some third party will make a mod for it and fix it.

I personally cant wait. 127 bucks for a nicer OS? That's definately the best money you can put down. What, beyond the hardware itself, do you use more than the OS? And money in the OS speeds up everything across the board. A w00t for apple!

[nosaj56]

Originally posted by inkswamp
I just have one question: has the annoying oversight with text clippings finally been addressed (OH PLEASE OH PLEASE!) ;)

If you're wondering, in OS 9 you could open a text clipping, hit Apple+C and copy the text to the clipboard. Very quick and convenient. In OS X, that no longer worked. Someone please tell me that Panther finally reinstated this feature.

Text clippings can now be copied and pasted! (I'm running Panther.)

[yaggayao]

send the panther beta to my house

[tizza]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
I think Panther is finally going to finish off OS X, as Steve alluded to Monday.

Not to mention the fact he's probably running out of big-cat names too :p

[MoparShaha]

Originally posted by punter
were you hoping to have chats with yourself? :p Thats not what I meant. The purpose of other user accounts is for other users to use the machine. While its true I'm the primary user of my mac, I have accounts for my college buddies (yeah, I'm in the dorms), and a lot of times they want to use my computer to chat on AIM. As it stands now, I either have to log out of iChat, or I have them use another AIM program (Adium, AOL AIM, ect.). As I see it, if I can't run multiple simultaneous copies of iChat, it defeats the purpose of the multiple graphical logins. True, they could just use AOL's AIM app, but I want to be cool and have two copies of iChat open, just like theres two copies of the finder, safari, ect. open when theres multiple GUI logons.

Just my 2¢

[chanoc]

Originally posted by tizza
Not to mention the fact he's probably running out of big-cat names too :p
How about Mac OS-X Cheetah, the fastest kitty on earth? Meow :D

[arn]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
Not having iChat remain open does on some level defeat the purpose of the graphical user switching.


this may be incorrect... as someone else said you still hear the ichat notifications when that user's screen is not there.

I've removed the claim until someone can verify it

arn

[Fukui]

Originally posted by Juventuz
I just noticed on Apple's site. $500 is the cheapest to become a developer.
Actually you can be a developer for free, 500 is the entry-level for the "extra benefits" you might want from ADC.

[nosaj56]

Originally posted by arn
this may be incorrect... as someone else said you still hear the ichat notifications when that user's screen is not there.

I've removed the claim until someone can verify it

arn

I can fast switch to another user with iChat running and switch back and to iChat and it's back just how i left it.

[MacFan26]

Originally posted by nosaj56
Text clippings can now be copied and pasted! (I'm running Panther.)

I was suprised when I read about the copy-pasting thing. I've been using command-c to copy and paste in Jaguar, I thought command-c was fixed a while ago.

Also, I was a little confused about the new user switching, if there is a separate dock, desktop, etc. wouldn't that take up a lot more disk and processor space? Or do I have the wrong idea about this?

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by MrMacman
What are you talking about, look at CPU -- jag owns
Memory -- Jag owns
Open GL -- jag again

That is what you use most of IMO.

Disk speed increase is nice tho.


I agree on the differences though there is a marked improvement in disk performance a 38% improvement alone. Also there was another major improvement in another system test that is by far the most complained about performance issue (drumroll please) User Interface. The user Interface improved by 49% that's huge!! Because of these two improvements pretty much alone this gave the whole system an overall score improvement of 28%. That's like going from the singe 800 G4 being tested to near the results of a single 1GHz G4. That's really impresive. Also remember this is all from an early prerelease. Expect things to improve dramatically.


MoparShaha you stated that you felt the underlying changes in 10.1 to 10.2 was greater then what they are doing to 10.3. I just have to let you know that this is incorrect. I'm not trying to be rude it really is a good thing that the truth is otherwise. From what I have heard the difference between 10.3 and 10.2 is much closer to the difference between 10.0 and 10.2. The underlying changes being made in 10.3 are huge there is nearly nothing that hasn't be improved, streamlined, or optimized in some way. Also they are making a huge number of changes to the system GUI and improving the overall useability drastically. The features that were gone over at the keynote and can be reviewed at the website are just the tip of the iceberg. As I understand it there is much much too come and there was either just too much to pack into a keynote or a lot of the changes just weren't ready for prime time. All in all it is actually pretty amazing that they are getting done what they are doing in the time they have alloted. Expect good things very good things. Too all of you saying $129 is too much. Well once you see it in action and hear everyone raving about it you won't be able to dig up the money fast enough. Also for educational buyers the prices for Jaguar is only $69. So go find a student that's willing to buy it for you. I expect the discount will probably be the same for Panther.

[inkswamp]

Originally posted by nosaj56
Text clippings can now be copied and pasted! (I'm running Panther.)

Beautiful. Thanks for the response. It seems like such a small thing, but I incorporate text clippings into some of my workflow and the loss of the copy command really @#$%ed me up.

Anyway, I'll check one thing off my ever-smaller list of OS X gripes. ;)

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by inkswamp
Beautiful. Thanks for the response. It seems like such a small thing, but I incorporate text clippings into some of my workflow and the loss of the copy command really @#$%ed me up.

Anyway, I'll check one thing off my ever-smaller list of OS X gripes. ;)

I agree. The difference in time is huge. On one hand you open the clipping and copy and then paste, done. The other hand you open textedit (which is in my dock for this reason) drag and drop the clipping on to the blank document then select all and copy and then paste. The difference is huge. I hate to do this but thank you Apple for giving me another feature back that you took away. They took away spring loaded folders and they finally gave it back. They are going to give us back text clipping copying. Now all I want back is the click and a half magnifying glass that let you surf through folders like spring loaded folders just without dragging something.

[whooleytoo]

Originally posted by inkswamp
Beautiful. Thanks for the response. It seems like such a small thing, but I incorporate text clippings into some of my workflow and the loss of the copy command really @#$%ed me up.

Anyway, I'll check one thing off my ever-smaller list of OS X gripes. ;)

Heh, I feel the same, the list of moans and whines against OSX just gets shorter and shorter; most of the features of Panther (Open/Save dialogs, Mail/UI speed, Labels, Network Browser) are straight from my gripe list! $129 - or its equivalent in Euros - seems like a bargain to me.

Mike.

[primalman]

Originally posted by chanoc
How about Mac OS-X Cheetah, the fastest kitty on earth? Meow :D

They alreadt used it for OS X 10.0 I believe. It's in the keynote. Watch it.

[weev]

What is the minimum (or preferred) system spec to run Panther?

[MorganX]

All these great new features (innovations) look a lot like Windows. I'd rather just have tile and cascade for window management, but whatever.

I'm happy these things are being incorproated into OS X. But I don't think I'm going to buy Windows functionality in OS X for $129 so soon after purchasing a new machine with Jaguar. I'm just not going to do it. I may have to wait until I get a new machine.

Hopefully there will be a $49 upgrade.

[michaelrjohnson]

I'm very excited for panther.. though like someone asked: what are the min. or preferred system requirements. I'm trying to milk the most out of my 400mhz G3 iMac DV until the 15 inch PowerBook G5 comes out (i know, it's awhile), so any performance boost is gladly welcomed. anybody have panther? post all the screenshots (somewhere).

thanks

[chanoc]

Originally posted by primalman
They alreadt used it for OS X 10.0 I believe. It's in the keynote. Watch it.

Then how about Mac OS-X Domestic House Kitty? What part of meow don't you understand? :)

[chanoc]

Originally posted by MorganX

Hopefully there will be a $49 upgrade.

Yes, I agree 49.00 seems reasonable. Alternatively, go to the Apple Store Online, and buy from the student store( I payed 69.00 for 10.2.). I am not in college anymore, yet I still use the student discount--hell, I am a student for life!:D

[cubist]

Could someone explain the Expose feature in a brief sentence that makes sense?

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by MacBandit
I agree on the differences though there is a marked improvement in disk performance a 38% improvement alone. Also there was another major improvement in another system test that is by far the most complained about performance issue (drumroll please) User Interface. The user Interface improved by 49% that's huge!! Because of these two improvements pretty much alone this gave the whole system an overall score improvement of 28%. That's like going from the singe 800 G4 being tested to near the results of a single 1GHz G4. That's really impresive. Also remember this is all from an early prerelease. Expect things to improve dramatically.

I have seen the difference, but even in beta form I don't understand why the lack of preformance in other crucial areas.

Eh, we will have to see.

[bitfactory]

would like to see more benchmarks from those who have it (using XBench) - especially on Dual Machines (before and after)...

my biggest question is - with the dev preview, do ALL the apps run okay in it? Photoshop, etc...? found an app that doesn't start up?

[MrMacMan]

Originally posted by cubist
Could someone explain the Expose feature in a brief sentence that makes sense?

It layers windows on top of eachother so you can see what you want.

BTW, another extremly costly upgrade?

What the hell apple!

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by nosaj56
I can fast switch to another user with iChat running and switch back and to iChat and it's back just how i left it.

yes, I know. if you have fast user switching enabled and one is running iChat, then you switch to the other user, iChat still runs on the other and you still recieve all the messages. iTunes still plays, everything still runs. you just get a new desktop to clutter up!

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by primalman
They alreadt used it for OS X 10.0 I believe. It's in the keynote. Watch it. yep, and Puma was 10.1, so dont go suggesting it either. they could however... use Ocelot... or if they wanna ditch the cat thing... go with Albacore :D

Ocelot would be my choice of their next revision. 10.4

and man am I glad to have labels back.

the System Profiler (they dropped the Apple in front of it) has been redone. more detail now on AGP graphics cards

the tabs like the ones in preferences panes and stuff are totally different now, but I like them better. they redid many things, and I'm really happy with them. you can securely empty the trash with 1, 7, or 35 pass secure empty. very nice, but takes longer. I think 7 is government standard... could be wrong though.

just click the close button (red button inright corner) of the system prefs and it closes the whole sys prefs app thingy. only app it does this on though, so dont freak. Also, Safari scroling looks smoother for some reason, I'm not the only one that has noticed this either.

the UI performance improvement is just huge. that alone almost makes the upgrade worth it. it's a nice upgrade and you people bitching about it really just confuse me. Apple doesn't owe it to you. Apple gave you iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and Safari, yet you want to complain about a pretty inexpensive OS upgrade that is really worth it? be realistic here folks. it's worth every penny.

[ryanmil1]

Where would an average shmo like me get ahold of a copy of panther? Is there any FTP's set up to DL it off...or someone willing to send it over AIM?...just wondering

jimimarley@cox.net

[movabi]

I think many of the features are wonderful in panther, however, I was hoping that there'd be a few more. I was hoping for a re-intro to tabbed finder windows... dock improvements... piles and with the new finder, does that mean no more columns views? And if so why can't they add that for flexiblity for people who like different work flows? another question... are there any performance issues on older G4s? Or will it be as fast or faster than jag is now?

[rt_brained]

Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
...you people bitching about it really just confuse me. Apple doesn't owe it to you. Apple gave you iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie, and Safari, yet you want to complain about a pretty inexpensive OS upgrade that is really worth it? be realistic here folks. it's worth every penny.
I couldn't agree more. If you're using OSX every single day, all day long, then you'd stand in line to pay $129 for all the improvements. But if your only using your Mac for a couple hours a day to surf the Net, answer email, play games and write the occassional Word document, then you wouldn't benefit greatly from the upgrade.

In which case you complainers probably haven't seen Panther at work beyond looking at a few screenshots on a website or reading a bullet point list of improvements... and never even bothered to watch the WWDC presentation.

So quit your griping and ask mom and dad for the money.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by michaelrjohnson
I'm very excited for panther.. though like someone asked: what are the min. or preferred system requirements. I'm trying to milk the most out of my 400mhz G3 iMac DV until the 15 inch PowerBook G5 comes out (i know, it's awhile), so any performance boost is gladly welcomed. anybody have panther? post all the screenshots (somewhere).

thanks

Well simply put Panther will run faster then Jaguar on any system that you can curretnly run Jaguar on so in the realm of system requirements in affect you don't need quite the system you did before but I wouldn't push it.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by cubist
Could someone explain the Expose feature in a brief sentence that makes sense?

Load this quictime interactive video.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/panther/expose.html#

Click on the F keys at the bottom and watch the windows zoom out and place themselves next to each other so you can see what each window is. When you hold your cursor over them a box appears with a title for the window so you know what they are. Once click on the window zooms all the windows back to there original size with the window you clicked on as the top most active window so you can work in it. The different F keys do different things like hiding all the windows, hiding all the windows except the ones from the app you are working in and zooming them out and organizing them so you can see them and the final one zooms all the windows out so you can see them. You can also set hot corners of the screen if you prefer instead or in addition to the F keys so that when you drag your mouse to one or another corner of the screen you get the same action the F keys performed.

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by movabi
and with the new finder, does that mean no more columns views?

columns view is still there. so are both of the others. They have taken nothihng away form the finder, except they have switched it up a bit... takes quite a bit of getting use to.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ryanmil1
Where would an average shmo like me get ahold of a copy of panther? Is there any FTP's set up to DL it off...or someone willing to send it over AIM?...just wondering

jimimarley@cox.net

I don't know what your experience is with beta OSs but let me give you a tip. From what I have heard Panther is very buggy and is definitely not appropriate for you main system where data loss is not acceptable. Also since you would be pirating the system you would be comitting a crime. If for some reason you could not get more recent additions of the preview you would be stuck with the one you get and would have to perform a complete clean install to get back to 10.2 or even to move to the final version of 10.3. In other words there is typically no upgrade path.

[ryanmil1]

yes yes...I know. That is why I would put it on my old ass Imac that doesn't get used for anything but screwing around...which is exactly what I would be doing

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by ryanmil1
yes yes...I know. That is why I would put it on my old ass Imac that doesn't get used for anything but screwing around...which is exactly what I would be doing

Are you running Jaguar on it currently? I would think that would be the only requirement. If you really want to get it I would look into one of the peer to peer programs for the Mac I've been told it's not hard to get Panther if one wants it.

[ryanmil1]

I'll give it a try...is there anything but limewire out for getting files on a mac these days?...Maybe I'll try hotline, but that has been fadeing with time

[Heart Break Kid]

encouraging piracy is not only prohibited here at MR...but it's illegal...

[harmless]

Originally posted by Heart Break Kid
It takes about 24 hours to download

Well, depends on your connection speed, obviously ...

I really dislike the new finder.
Ugly metal look and useless borders. Not sure about that left column in every finder window. I keep those things on my desktop. Seems more natural to me. Need an option to completely hide that column (without visible divider line).

Exposé is quite nice, though.

Mouse is still to slow. Dock preferences still don't show the option to pin it down to a corner. (I know there are tools out there to fix this - I'm using them; but I think these are things that should be addressed by apple.)

And found two bugs in about five minutes. Back to 10.2.6 - oh well.

They still have some work to do if they expect me to shell out 129 bucks for this.

(And, no, I'm not going to buy a new G5, since I got a Dual 1.25 MDD not too long ago. :-})


bye. Andreas.

[Brazuca]

The iChat thing:

I was able to log in with two .mac accounts on two separate Users.

I was also able to send messages to each other, and the other user's notification (the inactive user) beeped!

So it seems that you can indeed use iChat on different accounts.

But maybe you guys mean logging in the same .mac account for different users?

[Brazuca]

Originally posted by harmless
Well, depends on your connection speed, obviously ...

I really dislike the new finder.
Ugly metal look and useless borders. Not sure about that left column in every finder window. I keep those things on my desktop. Seems more natural to me. Need an option to completely hide that column (without visible divider line).

Exposé is quite nice, though.

Mouse is still to slow. Dock preferences still don't show the option to pin it down to a corner. (I know there are tools out there to fix this - I'm using them; but I think these are things that should be addressed by apple.)

And found two bugs in about five minutes. Back to 10.2.6 - oh well.

They still have some work to do if they expect me to shell out 129 bucks for this.

(And, no, I'm not going to buy a new G5, since I got a Dual 1.25 MDD not too long ago. :-})


bye. Andreas.

I agree with the brush metal bulk. I don't like it.

Expose is fantastic, and Fast User Switching (FUS) is the best!

But the bugs do exist, though I dont mind since its only a DP.

[NNO-Stephen]

for those of you who are complaining about the left column in the finder, it CAN be hidden the same way you hide the preview of the mail in Mail, except it's a vertical bar. oh, and labels work nicely in finder's columns view too.

[veedubdrew]

I've obtained a copy of the WWDC version of Panther. I have two .img files and when I mount them, I get an OSX installer (like Jag) and a bunch of files. If I try to copy these file to CD so that I can boot from the CD and install Panther, the files don't all copy and I lose the "Install Mac OS X" icon. Can someone please help me to use the .img file "Mac OS X Install Disc 1" to install the developer preview? FWIW, I fully intend to pop the $129 as soon as Panther GM is released and the computer I'm installing it on is an iBook 600 Combo that I almost never use, so it's just to see what the new OS is all about. Thanks in advance!

[jayscheuerle]

OSX is appearing to be a $129/yr subscription service. Add mac.com and it's $229/yr to run your Mac with all the features (not including broadband service, which you need to utilize .Mac in any practical way).

$19/month...

I'm very interested in seeing how well a Virtual PC runs on a 64 bit dual G5... Could be fantastic.

[primalman]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
OSX is appearing to be a $129/yr subscription service. Add mac.com and it's $229/yr to run your Mac with all the features (not including broadband service, which you need to utilize .Mac in any practical way).

$19/month...

I'm very interested in seeing how well a Virtual PC runs on a 64 bit dual G5... Could be fantastic.

It's not a subscription if your current OX.x keeps running as is.

It would be a subscription if you HAD to pay every month/year to keep using what you had. Like those other online music places. :D

[multifinder]

Originally posted by MorganX
All these great new features (innovations) look a lot like Windows. I'd rather just have tile and cascade for window management, but whatever.

I'm happy these things are being incorproated into OS X. But I don't think I'm going to buy Windows functionality in OS X for $129 so soon after purchasing a new machine with Jaguar. I'm just not going to do it. I may have to wait until I get a new machine.

Hopefully there will be a $49 upgrade.

That's almost exactly what my wife said when I showed her the screenshots--"it looks just like Windows." The little window that pops up when you Command-Tab to switch applications in Panther has been in Windows since Win95. The little pane in the open/save dialogs for favorites is another Windows GUI element creeping into OS X. I sure as hell wouldn't call them "innovative", but like all corporations Apple runs on plenty of spin. I'll pass on blowing $129 on Panther as well--I love the way my Mac works now and I'm not dying to have anything Steve showed in the preview.

I was disappointed with Expose, I spend a lot of time in text editors and thumbnailed text files all look the same. I'd honestly rather have a Windows-like taskbar with all open windows on it and the old Apple menu back than either Expose or the Dock.

[kalleboo]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. There's a ntfs.fs in the /System/Library/Filesystems/ folder. Does this thing support NTFS disks? Wooohoo! I don't have an NTFS disk on hand to test, though.

[billyboy]

Maybe I'm missing something, but some people's criticisms dont come across as particularly "helpful". Its like 6 months till launch day, the whole of Apple's software development being is going to be sweating blood for 6 months to get Panther as spectacular as it can be, and some folks are a) saying they should be doing that for the price of a pair of good jeans; or b) judging Panther beta as though its coming out tomorrow and Steve Jobs is going to go to their house with a gun saying gimme $129 or else you can no longer enjoy your Mac.

If the benchmarks are worth anything, Apple have just extended the life of most of our Macs by developing a faster OS and added some pretty nifty things to make the boys go wow. So its either stick with a reliable Jaguar, or spend $129 to get a zippier user experience - or get a new computer for a totally mind blowing jump in performance. As someone with a 6 month old Ti Powerbook, which I was told was way to good for most of the people owning it, me included, $129 sounds like a great deal to tie me into Apple for another year.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by jayscheuerle
OSX is appearing to be a $129/yr subscription service. Add mac.com and it's $229/yr to run your Mac with all the features (not including broadband service, which you need to utilize .Mac in any practical way).

$19/month... Just think, you could be on the MS Windows release cycle of one new must-have OS release every three years or so. That would bring your cost down to under $12/mo, most of which is .mac. Still ... I can't say as I'd consider that a Good Thing.

What if for $41/mo you could get legitimate access to the current and pre-release copies of OSX (even server), access to Apple labs in Cupertino, Bejing, and Tokyo to play with the latest goodies, development seeds of the nice new apps (like Safari was), and a 20% discount on the new Apple system of your choice once per year? If you do a lot of Apple buys, or just want the inside scoop, the ADC Select (http://developer.apple.com/membership/) program may be for you.

If you actually want to go to next year's WWDC, check out the Premier package. It would cost about $2000 after deducting the cost of the (included) WWDC pass, and also gets you 10 hardware discounts at the Apple Developer Store (http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/ADC?qprm=38839). Not a bad deal, and almost a no-brainer if you want to buy anything expensive, like an Xserve RAID.

-Richard

edit: The last link won't work, it seems that you have to go here (http://developer.apple.com/membership/usa.html) and click on the ADC hardware purchase program banner.

[daveL]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Just think, you could be on the MS Windows release cycle of one new must-have OS release every three years or so. That would bring your cost down to under $12/mo, most of which is .mac. Still ... I can't say as I'd consider that a Good Thing.

What if for $41/mo you could get legitimate access to the current and pre-release copies of OSX (even server), access to Apple labs in Cupertino, Bejing, and Tokyo to play with the latest goodies, development seeds of the nice new apps (like Safari was), and a 20% discount on the new Apple system of your choice once per year? If you do a lot of Apple buys, or just want the inside scoop, the ADC Select (http://developer.apple.com/membership/) program may be for you.

If you actually want to go to next year's WWDC, check out the Premier package. It would cost about $2000 after deducting the cost of the (included) WWDC pass, and also gets you 10 hardware discounts at the Apple Developer Store (http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/ADC?qprm=38839). Not a bad deal, and almost a no-brainer if you want to buy anything expensive, like an Xserve RAID.

-Richard
Richard, I have been considering doing just that (the Select membership). It seems like it would virtually pay for itself after 2 years, especially if you can take it as a business deduction, which I can. You don't get the hardware discount with Select until you renew for the second year. However, you get 5 software seed keys, which you can transfer to other ADC members. I was wondering if it's legal to share a Select membership with other people who are just online ADC members (the free catagory)? If it's legal, then a person could pay for the Select membership and then sell off the extra sw seed keys for, say, $75 - $100, which is cheaper than the $129 for an OS X upgrade. Does that work?

[veedubdrew]

Wow!!! I finally got Panther installed on my iBook and the difference in performance is incredible. GUI response is completely amazing...it feels like I bumped up several hundred MHz. My iBook is a 600 MHz Combo model with the clunky 8MB video card, so I'm not even using QE.

With Panther, the UI feels much better than even my 17" iMac 800 G4 running Jag. I'm really blown away with the difference there is. Snappiness is just great. Resizing windows still leaves something to be desired, but it's a major improvement nonetheless.

Mail is worlds faster than it used to be and so is Sherlock. The movie section of Sherlock in particular is just really speedy now. Window scrolling is improved throughout Panther.

I like the new Finder, but I wish that when you just opened up a folder on the desktop that it didn't give you a new Finder window. I'd like it set up so that the metal Finder thing only comes up when you click on an optical drive.

Expose is cool. Internet Connect is much improved. So far I'm very very impressed, and this is just the first version of a beta! I'm anxious for the GM; I will gladly hand Apple my $129 for this increase in UI snappiness.

[NNO-Stephen]

Originally posted by veedubdrew
I've obtained a copy of the WWDC version of Panther. I have two .img files and when I mount them, I get an OSX installer (like Jag) and a bunch of files. If I try to copy these file to CD so that I can boot from the CD and install Panther, the files don't all copy and I lose the "Install Mac OS X" icon. Can someone please help me to use the .img file "Mac OS X Install Disc 1" to install the developer preview? FWIW, I fully intend to pop the $129 as soon as Panther GM is released and the computer I'm installing it on is an iBook 600 Combo that I almost never use, so it's just to see what the new OS is all about. Thanks in advance!

burn them as disk images in toast.

[MacBandit]

Originally posted by NNO-Stephen
burn them as disk images in toast.

You could also use Disc Copy to burn the images to a cd. Either way that is what needs to be done.