Two Button Mice?

[arn]

Spymac (http://www.spymac.com) claims that Apple will be releasing two-button mice in the future:

Two-button mice have been developed at Apple and are scheduled for an introduction during the second half of 2002.


Historically, Apple has only provided one-button mice... due to human interface issues, dating back to the beginning. Written by Jef Raskin (http://mxmora.best.vwh.net/JefRaskin.html):

While I was the first PARC-savvy person at Apple, Larry Tesler was the first PARC employee to join the company. At first he was strongly opposed to the Mac's easier-to-use mouse methods, and I eventually wrote a memo that showed, point by point, that the one-button mouse could do everything that PARCs three-button mouse could do and with the same number or fewer user actions. It was faster and more efficient, and much easier to learn and remember how to use. I had observed that people (including myself) at PARC often made wrong-button errors in using the mouse, which was part of my impetus for doing better.

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<font size=2>Related Articles: [url="http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,39773,00.html"]Wired: Eek! A Two-Button Mac Mouse?</font>

[stoid]

As long as they don't have stolen photos, I might just believe them. I don't think their credability could stand another flarge scale failure!

[teabgs]

I was discussing that Apple should do this with a friend not less then an hour ago. Lots of people use the one button thing to say that "Macs Suck". Also, I have come to like the 2nd button and scroll at work.

I'd like to believe this rumor...but its from Spymac so...

I really think it would be a great BTO at Apple store. It would look so much nicer then the Logitech I'd have to get otherwise.

[madamimadam]

I don't even know why I am wasting the time commenting on this. If you read the article you will notice that they have no support for their far out claims. The "related article", which would have been what SpyMac based most of the info on, talks about how Apple is going to sell a 2-button and/or scroll wheel mouse because they are offering support for multi-button mice in Cocoa and later in Carbon.

Of course they are offering support... Apple tries to offer support for as many commonly used technologies as they can. Along with multi-button mice, they are also supporting the many other types of controller that are used all the time in gaming especially. Gamers love the extra buttons and Apple is trying to get more of them on the Mac.

[Mr. Anderson]

Why would Apple go and change their whole one button concept?

If you want more than one button, go out and get another USB mouse with more buttons - its not that expensive.

I use a wacom tablet with a 4 button mouse (but I only really use 2) I bought the intuos for the tablet features, not the extra mouse buttons.

[MacAztec]

No scrollwheel?!? What is that all about? IF apple is going to make a 2 button mouse, they should have SOME sort of scrool wheel.

[Choppaface]

nO NOETNOWE TOJE#%U@#()%()@*!()#$*()_!@#&*!#&!!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hate two button mice SO much

they better make everything compatible with their existing one button USB optical mice....I like my one button mouse

[Beej]

If Apple were to make a two button mouse with no scroll wheel... I'd get very upset. >(

They could stick with the one-button mouse concept, but offer a two-button mouse as well. That way people who want one button can have it, people who want two can have it.

If I could buy an Apple two-button mouse, I would. But I can't, so I just use the one-button mouse my Mac came with. I bet a lot of people would buy the Apple two-button mouse and retire their old 3rd party mouse.

[Macette]

Say it ain't so... one is enuff for me.

[madamimadam]

Jesus Christ, you people read a rumour with no credit to it and you go stupid. As if any of this is true; maybe it would be if Apple was trying to lose its identity but somehow I feel that the recent movement of the company suggest differently. All Apple has done is add support for multi-button mice so you can buy one from your local store and plug it in without having to worry about fidely drivers and incompatibilities. And, Choppaface, seriously, come on, as if Apple would drop support for the one button mouse.

[cleo]

When I was debating my recent move to the Mac platform, the mouse issue was foremost in my mind. But you know... after a month using my beautiful white Pro Mouse, I think I'd stick with it even if Apple did offer a multi-buttoned mouse. After the first couple of days, I haven't once longed for a second button. The only use of the right button that I kind of miss is the fast access to cut and paste, but it's just as easy to drag a snippet of text to the desktop and plop it back in whenever needed. And anyway, it's so cool to be able to hold a donut and use my mouse with my wrist while the phone is in the other hand! :D

[teabgs]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
Jesus Christ, you people read a rumour with no credit to it and you go stupid. As if any of this is true; maybe it would be if Apple was trying to lose its identity but somehow I feel that the recent movement of the company suggest differently. All Apple has done is add support for multi-button mice so you can buy one from your local store and plug it in without having to worry about fidely drivers and incompatibilities. And, Choppaface, seriously, come on, as if Apple would drop support for the one button mouse.

I dont think that anyone BELIEVES it. That doesnt mean we can think about IF it were true. If people want a two button mouse why not have it as an option? Shoudl 3rd party companies get all the money? If apple got the money for the mice that 3rd parties do theyd have agood deal of extra cash. An Apple 2 button mouse would be great for many people.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by teabgs


I dont think that anyone BELIEVES it. That doesnt mean we can think about IF it were true. If people want a two button mouse why not have it as an option? Shoudl 3rd party companies get all the money? If apple got the money for the mice that 3rd parties do theyd have agood deal of extra cash. An Apple 2 button mouse would be great for many people.


Aaahhhh.... now we have useful conversation instead of crying over something not true. Instead of getting rid of the 2-button mouse, making an option would be GREAT. I think, if they made a 2-button like the 1-button I would buy it. Like that one that someone was showing off that they bought recently that requires you to roll your hand left or right. I think a mouse like that would be a good option.

[Taft]

Putting the issue of the rumor's credibility aside for a sec...

Raskin kind of ticks me off. Some of his theories have merit, but he is totally fanatical and unwilling to accept any idea other than his decent.

As far as I'm concerned, the original studies they did at Apple could have been less than perfectly setup. Its like a psychology experiment: a very difficult thing to do right and accurately. Unlike Mr. Raskin, I think there is room to improve upon the original Mac interface and the one button mouse.

For example, I get up tomorrow morning, pop a bagel in the toaster and then sit down to check my e-mail and check the front page of MacRumors. Mind you, I'm eating a bagel while doing this. Left hand is on my bagel and near my coffee mug, right hand on my two button mouse with scroll wheel. I have my toolbar in OmniWeb closed so as to maximize my viewing area.

I can now use my mouse to click my favorites, scroll, click on links, move items to the trash, right-click on documents to access the back button, r-click to save an image, r-click on the saved image in the Finder to show info, move items in Mail to other folders (like my word of the day e-mails from MW and dictionary.com to my WOTD folder), r-click on the dock for faster access....

And it all takes less time than going to the menu bar, grabbing for the scroll wheel, or opening that tray thingy on the side of the Mail window. I do it without the use of my left hand.

I wouldn't give up my other button and the scroll wheel ever. Not ever. And I think I'm way more efficient with these features. Maybe Raskin is just aiming at the lowest common denominator of Mac users...

Just my opinion.

Matthew

[blackpeter]

Once and for all - Apple will remain true to the 3rd party. Not to mention that one button mousing in one of the oldest Apple traditions.

[eyelikeart]

now we all know u either take what SpyMac says for total b.s. or with a grain of salt...

I honestly hope we don't start seeing 2 button mice coming from Apple...

when u think about it....the 1 thing Apple prides itself on is "being different"...

I feel this would go against that whole philosophy of not giving in to what everyone else is doing rather than what everyone else isn't doing...

[j763]

I would love to see Apple release a 2-button mouse... However, they shouldn't ship a 2-button mouse as standard, stick with the 1 mouse button mice for the moment and sell the 2-button seperately.

i do find this hard to believe because spymac said it...

but i hope spymac get something right for once...

[dualburn001]

hey what about that stylish looking mouse that was on the forums a week ago and it is 2 button as well:
http://homepage.mac.com/sartono/PhotoAlbum21.html

[krossfyter]

screw the mouse concept PERIOD! they should come out with something totally different, more effective and self persuasive.

[mymemory]

With a two botton mouse I fell like my left harm is useless.

When I was using Alisa Power Animator, the extra botton in the mouse of the SGI (I gues it has 3) was so usefull because of the amount of menues and the amount of work to do.

A 2nd botton would be good but the Mac wouldn't be the same.

[Hemingray]

I just converted from a one-button mouse to a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel... and I'll never go back! It's a beautiful thing... I used to hate multi-button mice as well, being the diehard Apple fan I am... but man, when something is useful... for God's sake, USE IT!

Just my opinion.

[Xapplimatic]

OLD post.. digging up the dead! OSX has supported three button mice AND scroll wheels since 10.0!

OK, if human interface or reducing effort (work) was the aim of the interface device, then the mouse gets a resounding D rating all across the board.. A track ball with at least two buttons and a scroll wheel is much less hand movement than any mouse of any configuration.. Properly shaped, a trackball means no arm, elbow, or wrist movements, just fingers make the effort. It is one less way to get carpal tunnel syndrome--not to mention makes more efficient use of desk space.. Apple should release something like the Macally optical trackball, but cool Apple styled.. maybe an Aqua ball instead of a red lighted ball.

[teabgs]

Originally posted by Hemingray
I just converted from a one-button mouse to a two-button mouse with a scroll wheel... and I'll never go back! It's a beautiful thing... I used to hate multi-button mice as well, being the diehard Apple fan I am... but man, when something is useful... for God's sake, USE IT!

Just my opinion.

I whole-heartedly agree. Though I still use the one button mouse, I will switch over when I get a new computer.

Being different because its good is apple, being different just to be different is stupid. 2 button mice are so much more efficient now. Maybe years ago it wasnt, but it is much better. Took me a long time to convince, but its the way to go.

[GeeYouEye]

Originally posted by Xapplimatic
OLD post.. digging up the dead! OSX has supported three button mice AND scroll wheels since 10.0!

OK, if human interface or reducing effort (work) was the aim of the interface device, then the mouse gets a resounding D rating all across the board.. A track ball with at least two buttons and a scroll wheel is much less hand movement than any mouse of any configuration.. Properly shaped, a trackball means no arm, elbow, or wrist movements, just fingers make the effort. It is one less way to get carpal tunnel syndrome--not to mention makes more efficient use of desk space.. Apple should release something like the Macally optical trackball, but cool Apple styled.. maybe an Aqua ball instead of a red lighted ball.

Erm.. No. Trackballs, for all their ergonomy (is that a word?) suck. You can't use them after eating without washing your hands cause if you do, it's weekly or worse cleaning. This is why the trackpad is about the best form of control I can think of.

[edenwaith]

Several months ago I read a tech magazine which featured the creation of the mouse. Most of the article described Apple's design of the mouse. In a typical Steve Jobs fashion, he expected the people trying to create the mouse to simulate what PARC was doing, but at a fraction of the cost and with better performance. That seems like going up to a new car manufacturer to create a new car which runs off of solar power and costs less than $5000 (or less). But there was a big hub-bub about the design of the original Apple mouse and maintaining one mouse button.

Personally, I like having a mutli-button scroll wheel mouse on all of the Macs I use since I enjoy the scroll wheel and being able to right-click on items.

[LethalWolfe]

1 button mice are, IMO, worthless. 2 button mice w/a clickable scroll wheel should be a bare minimum. I have an M$ optical Intellimouse that has 4 buttons, plus a clickable scroll wheel, and I'll never go back to a "PC standard" 2 button mouse w/wheel. And yes, I use all 5 "buttons" every freakin' day (great for surfing). When I get my G4 there is a nice wireless, 4 button (if you include the clickable wheel) Logitech that has my name on it. Keeping a "tradition" because it is still useful is one thing, keeping a tradition because it's tradition is dumb.


Lethal

[eyelikeart]

buttons? we don't need no stinking buttons! :o

and come on! a 5 button mouse? is it really that necessary to have all that? I mean...u click and move....click and drag.....drag and click....

I've been completely satisfied with the traditional 1 button mouse...and if they do start shipping with 2 button mice.....I'll have to snatch up whatever I can from eBay so I can have them for the future... :p

[mywar2000]

One button, two button... I don't really care. BUT, how in the world do you all survive without the scrollwheel ?!?!?! The scrollwheel makes everything I do soooo much faster. I couldn't live without it. Unfortunately that means I don't use the beautiful apple pro mouse that came with my computer. If only it had a scrollwheel...

[Rower_CPU]

Scroll wheels are a must these days. They save you lots of mouse movement. For me the second mouse button is convenient, but not necessary. I don't see how you would be able to do a scroll wheel with the Apple Pro mouse though.

[grrr223]

Mywar2000 that's EXACTLY what I was going to say as I'm sitting here NOT moving my mouse but just scrolling down the page. Number of buttons aside, if any of you use a scroll wheel for about a week, you'll never go back, it's sooo convenient.

While the second button is convenient, it's not nearly as cool as having the scroll wheel. Under OS 9, I had a program called Finderpop which basically just emulated a control-click (or right-click) by just clicking and holding with the one mouse button, does anyone know of anything like that for os X? If I had that feature back AND a scroll wheel on Apple's beautiful optical mouse, it would kick ass. Although more buttons are always nice.

One reason I think Apple should adopt multiple button mice is for their laptops. My friend just got a new HP laptop, it has that silly joystick thing in the keyboard AND a trackpad AND 2 buttons both above and below the trackpad AND a scrollbutton thing that works the same a scrollbar. It's really not that convenient to hold down the control key on a laptop. And what is that HP laptop user going to think when they look at an iBook (which I guess could keep the 1 button) or even Apple's prize TiBook and sees ONE stinkin' button?!

I never knew there was all this support for keeping one button mice, I guess they are great in schools and for keeping things simple, I didn't mind having one for years, but now I've fallen in love with the scroll wheel. It would be awesome if Apple gave the OPTION of a two-button APPLE mouse though on their new computers WITH a scroll-wheel. Not keeping with tradition?, Apple's tradition is innovation, coming out with new things, LEADING the market, not lagging behind.

And whoever was complaining about 5 button mice? If you've ever had not only the scroll wheel, but forward and back buttons and whatever other features you can assign to them right at your fingertips, it's awesome, and that's just for web browsing. You can assign them to things like Cont-Opt-Alt-Space click or somethingl ike that for use with Photoshop.

Sorry, that was kinda long, I'm supposed to be studying for an accounting exam, and this is more fun :)

[mpiontek]

I'd have to side with Jef Raskin on this one (particularly having read one of his books, The Humane Interface). Typical Windows users don't even know what the right mouse button is. "Right click? I should click on the ride side of the screen?" Most people don't even have a use for it either - everything that can be done in a right/control-click contextual menu can be done some other way. Giving people too many options for doing the same thing can be unncessarily confusing. There's nothing wrong with this, that's just how it is for the more casual computer user.

I think the same applies to the scroll wheel. A lot of more typical computer users I've known wouldn't even use the scroll wheel on their mouse.

But of course, there are the rest of us... Heck, I'd buy a mouse with a second button and a scroll wheel, but I like my Apple Pro Mouse too much. :) I could actually see Apple including a more advanced mouse with future G4 Towers... perhaps even just as an option? I would be amazed, though (and even concerned) if Apple included a two-button mouse with all their computers. Apple is about simplicity and elegance, and to most users a two-button mouse is unncecessarily complex and awkward.

[McFreggle]

An Apple keyboard has two USB ports, right? And we only use one of them, most of the time, right?

So... let's plug in TWO Apple Mice! The right one (the regular one) offers the "left clicks" (to make things a tiny bit more complicated) and the left one offers the "right clicks" and the contextual menus.

Groooovy!

[Macmaniac]

If u play games like me u have to have a two button mouse. It would be great to have a two button Apple mouse, but if it does not have a scroll wheel that would be a huge mistake. There ar some Dells in our school that don't have scroll wheels and it is so annoying!

[eyelikeart]

I've used them....and personally just don't like the feel of it....

I mean is it really that hard to click and drag to get a page to move up & down? u can even use the arrow keys for some instanced (internet for example)...

feeling kinda frisky today....so hope I don't get flamed too much! :p

[MikeH]

I don't get why people are getting so heated about this 'rumour' - which still has no evidence as yet.

Even if they do release a two button mouse with a scroll wheel, all you hard core one button old school crowd only need to use the left button. Or hang on to your old mouse.

IMO a 2-button mouse with a scroll wheel is the way forward. ****** tradition. If you want stay in the past get a Mac Classic with the old brick like ADB mouse and do it right.

Cheerio.

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by MikeH
I don't get why people are getting so heated about this 'rumour' - which still has no evidence as yet.

Even if they do release a two button mouse with a scroll wheel, all you hard core one button old school crowd only need to use the left button. Or hang on to your old mouse.

IMO a 2-button mouse with a scroll wheel is the way forward. ****** tradition. If you want stay in the past get a Mac Classic with the old brick like ADB mouse and do it right.

Cheerio.

well u have a valid point on this whole issue at the begining of your words...."still has no evidence as yet"...

wanting to keep with what works isn't staying in the past my friend...it's called "if it ain't broke don't fix it!"

and honestly....a Mac Classis with the old brick like ADB mouse.....that's just plain ridiculous to even make a comparison....

[MikeH]

Sure the single button "ain't broke" but it's not as efficient as a two buttons and scroll wheel.

What I'm getting at is the attitude that just because Windows people (or whoever) had somthing before Mac users doesn't mean it's not worth having and should be dimissed out of hand.

If it's worth having, get it or adapt it, and don't get all wound up because Apple didn't do it first. (or should that be Xerox).

The bit about the Mac Classic was just a bit of sarcasm by the way.

[lazyrighteye]

Hey Fellow Dorks,

I love reading these comment sections... we get so fired up about the lamest issues. I mean, people actually verbally assault people over the number of buttons their mouse has or should or shouldn't. Interesting...

Does it not seem a bit silly? Maybe it's me... must be.

"One button rules!"
"Two buttons rule!!"
"Let's hear it for scroll wheels!!!"

Rock on Mac dorks. =)

[nathany]

As a PC convert who purchased an iBook last summer, I've found that the one mouse button thing isn't such a big issue. The Dock supports click & hold, and I can Ctrl-click with one hand. The arrows are also close enough to scroll with. I can't imagine the clutter of the HP laptop mentioned above - 4 buttons, a scrolly wheel thing and 2 pointing devices. With the iBook I can reach down without looking and either click/tap with the same affect.

Now that I think about, I also recall new users wondering which button to push when in Windows. It's the good old less-is-more. Granted, I may use context-menus more with a dedicated right-clicker - which is a kind of nice way to do things vs. going up to the menus.

Gaming is where I use an external Logitech mouse. With Apple promoting gaming more, I think it makes sense to at least offer the build-to-order option of a two button mouse, whether or not Apple makes it or not. Everyone I know also figures the new iMac should have the option of coming with a Logitech Wireless Desktop-like setup, but with a proper Mac keyboard and Apple styling.

Also, having the BTO option of a 2 button mouse should encourage software developers to use that 2nd button more - plenty of Mac apps don't use context-sensitive menus as much as they could.

I have a mini-rant about the current state of Mac OS X software. Internet Explorer zooms under the dock. Preview doesn't support scrolling with the arrows. AppleWorks open recent is in the wrong place and is alphabetical and not so-much the recent documents. Going between BBEdit, Eudora, Project Builder and AppleWorks - they all treat Home, End, Option-left, Option-right, etc. differently - the CUA standard in Windows is nice. Apple has its own UI guidelines, but it doesn't seem like even they follow them. I think those sort of issues are much more important than whether my mouse has one or two buttons.

- n8

[Mr. Anderson]

Apple designed their one button mouse in the 80's, think about how much has changed since then.

The scroll wheel became a welcome option for browsing and moving up and down pages, mostly for the internet, which really didn't exist in early 80 as it does today.

So what's wrong changing with the times. Its more than just a philosophical issue at stake here.

[eyelikeart]

make it an option (like it is now) and those who want them can have them....

there will very well be many of us who would want to throw a 2 button out the window....

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by dukestreet
Why would Apple go and change their whole one button concept?

If you want more than one button, go out and get another USB mouse with more buttons - its not that expensive.

I use a wacom tablet with a 4 button mouse (but I only really use 2) I bought the intuos for the tablet features, not the extra mouse buttons.

only a true mac fiend would ask "why?" instead of "why not?" :rolleyes:

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Jookbox


only a true mac fiend would ask "why?" instead of "why not?"

oh please.

read my other post.:p

[Xapplimatic]

Originally posted by GeeYouEye


Erm.. No. Trackballs, for all their ergonomy (is that a word?) suck. You can't use them after eating without washing your hands cause if you do, it's weekly or worse cleaning. This is why the trackpad is about the best form of control I can think of.

Get real! I've used a Macally optical trackball for several months and have not had to clean it once.. I was talking OPTICAL here, not rollers.

Trackpads? Trackpads are the most annoying control ever invented (slow! inaccurate!) .. why do you think many laptop users (such as myself) abandon use of their trackpad and cart around a small USB mouse?

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
a 5 button mouse? is it really that necessary to have all that? I mean...u click and move....click and drag.....drag and click....


Necesary? No. Incredibly useful? Yes. :) Let me explain:
L and R buttons do their standard thing.
Scroll Wheel, well it scrolls and when clicked it "slides" (for lack up a better term). For example, by clicking the scroll wheel I can either creep or zip up/down a page by barely moving the mouse forward or back. Much easier than scrolling "long distances." I can zip from the top to the bottom of Page 1 of this thread in a second or less.
Thumb button, is my "back" browser button.
Pinkie button, is my "forward" browser button.

Do I really *need* 5 buttons? No. But it is really nice to have, IMO. :D


Lethal

[abe]

I don't even know why Apple hasn't released a 2 button mouse yet at all.

May be it's some kind of being different from PCs ... but that's stupid.

Using the control-key all the time drives me crazy. The Logitec mouse I'm using with my PC has even a weel for scrolling. If you get used to it you won't miss it anymore...

[ibjoshua]

i can't sit by and read all this crap about tradition.
you guys that spit in the face of 2button + scroll mice are sounding as much like luddites as computer users can.

the one button mouse was fantastic when it first arrived. i first learned to use a computer back in 1986 with a 128k mac. i don't sit around going "gee i wish they had 2 buttons and a scroll wheel back then!" but contextual menus and the scroll wheel are brilliant.

hey PC manufacturers, MS etc don't get it all wrong guys. the 2button + scroll is perfect for some people, don't poo on them for using something that works.

lighten up. this is supposed to be a rumours site not an evengelists get together. (is it?)

out