The future of MR/Spam/Fun Threads [Archive]

scem0

Jun 30, 2003, 02:47 PM

The 'what's on your mind' thread just got shut down and it convinced me to make this thread, which I had been planning on doing for a while now.

The most fun I have ever had on MR was when the geek thread was at its strongest stages. I got to know people better with that 'spam' than I could have gotten to know them in a serious discussion.

Spam is frowned upon on MR, and I don't see it as a bad thing at all.

I don't understand why everyone is so against it.... is it because people are getting a higher post count when they don't deserve a higher post count?

Is it because the spam gets in the way of the 'meaningful' posts?

I got more from the geek thread than I have from any other thread on MR.

Now, threads that have a chance of being as much fun as the geek thread are getting crushed before they could even get started!

I guess I just don't see what the big deal is about threads that are destined to have a lot of spam in them.... :o

Could someone please explain?

scem0

Durandal7

Jun 30, 2003, 03:00 PM

Spam is by definition meaningless undesireable ****.

Just how much meaningless **** are we expected to take?

scem0

Jun 30, 2003, 03:08 PM

I think if you actually looked into it deeper you would see that it isn't meaningless.

Where is vniow (on vacation, right?) - I think she could explain why spamming isn't totally meaningless better than I could.

I can't really explain why I don't think its meaningless. I can only say that when I spam, I generally am enjoying the post more than my other 'meaningful' posts.

I don't see how the geek thread could have annoyed other people.

What about it annoyed y'all?

scem0

Rower_CPU

Jun 30, 2003, 03:08 PM

Well, Community Discussion is pretty unmoderated, but if a thread is started that seems to be only for spam, or turns into nothing more than an excuse for spam, it's at our discretion to close it down.

iChat, IRC, etc are a better place for chit chat that doesn't eat up arn's bandwidth and server space.

scem0

Jun 30, 2003, 03:11 PM

so is it purely a bandwidth issue?

I was under the impression that people were mad at people increasing their post count with 'meaningless posts'...

I can understand not wanting spam if it's a bandwidth issue, but I have trouble seeing why post count would be so important to so many people....

scem0

tazo

Jun 30, 2003, 03:14 PM

isnt there a way to turn off post count in certain forums? I know you can do that on some BBs. If the admins could do that in the community discussiion forum then that would satisify the no upped post count complaint. Other then that the members could have great fun in lots of geek-esque threads.

just my 2.5 cents.

Rower_CPU

Jun 30, 2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by scem0
so is it purely a bandwidth issue?

I was under the impression that people were mad at people increasing their post count with 'meaningless posts'...

I can understand not wanting spam if it's a bandwidth issue, but I have trouble seeing why post count would be so important to so many people....

scem0

Post count also plays into it, since status/avatar come with higher post counts. From a practical angle it's pointless server load. From a social angle it's people with nothing of substance to add in any of the news/rumors thread who want to get some posts in.

arn

Jun 30, 2003, 03:17 PM

Those posts aren't allowed for a few reasons.

1) Bandwidth/server load are just minor considerations... I doubt one thread reloaded by a few people would cause excess load on this server... but when it comes down to it -- any excess load caused by a pointless thread is unnecessary.

2) Quality of threads and pointless threads is the main reason not to allow such things. I'm sure you enjoy that thread scem... but of the 18980 registered users - I bet there were 3 who actually liked that thread. And the point isn't why is that thread so bad... but point is - if we allow it - what's to keep each of the 18980 posting their own personal threads posting whatever they feel. Suddenly, the community is filled with hundreds of pointless threads entertaining themselves. Let's at least keep the semblance of trying to have topics that other people might be interested in.

Your question is the equivlanent of asking in the early days of email. "Why can't I just send out an advertisment email to a few people? It's not like it's that much difficulty for people to ignore it"

It's not that one email perse - it's the floodgates it opens.

3) Post counts are another issue... maybe I will stop posts from counting in community.

arn

medea

Jun 30, 2003, 03:20 PM

I think the point of shutting down threads like that is because those threads (geek, etc.) only facilitate the use of spam everywhere else, if people see it's ok to do it in one thread then it will probably merge into all threads, and I for one don't care to read through threads that are filled with pointless crap even though the original topic might have been interesting.

edit: looks like I was right on the money, I was typing while arn was posting the above.

scem0

Jun 30, 2003, 03:24 PM

okay, very good points.

So how about this.....

start a 'Chit-Chat' forum which doesn't boost post count and can be just a fun place to post random, fun topics.

I've seen 'chit-chat' sections on forums, and they always have topics that I'm interested in :p. Certain threads could be moved to the chit chat thread - like the poop thread, the geek thread, etc.

Sounds like a good idea to me. :)

scem0

arn

Jun 30, 2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by scem0
okay, very good points.

So how about this.....

start a 'Chit-Chat' forum which doesn't boost post count and can be just a fun place to post random, fun topics.

I've seen 'chit-chat' sections on forums, and they always have topics that I'm interested in :p. Certain threads could be moved to the chit chat thread - like the poop thread, the geek thread, etc.

Sounds like a good idea to me. :)

scem0

Well -- it still comes down to "do I even want to devote even a fraction of a percent of server resources to this?"

My answer is still no. :)

the community section should handle what you want... just not insane post-streaks and truely pointless threads.

arn

scem0

Jun 30, 2003, 03:30 PM

Okay, I can respect that...

I still think a ChitChat forum would be worth the bandwidth, but i'm not running the site :).

Community discussion can satisfy my posting urges I guess.

scem0

Kwyjibo

Jun 30, 2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by arn
3) Post counts are another issue... maybe I will stop posts from counting in community.

arn

i think thats actually a good to great idea...people can abuse this section because so easy to give your two cents so many times over...think of how many times you've answered one of the orgiins or your username threads or anything like that...

scem0

Jun 30, 2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
i think thats actually a good to great idea...people can abuse this section because so easy to give your two cents so many times over...think of how many times you've answered one of the orgiins or your username threads or anything like that...

I too think it is a good idea. I think post count should be removed as a whole. Time since joining should be what determines when you can get a tar, or something like that.

scem0

wdlove

Jun 30, 2003, 03:36 PM

I would not like to see the posts in Community Discussion no longer count.

scem0's suggestion of a chitchat forum sounds like something that should be considered. I will admit that I have difficulty determining the difference between a meaningful post and spam. When posting I do feel that I'm contributing something worthwhile!

eyelikeart

Jun 30, 2003, 03:50 PM

While this may be a good way to ward off the problem of overindulgence with postings, I see an issue arising from it. What if the disclusion of post counts in Community brings an influx of threads popping up in other areas, for the sake of those who want to be a pain? It may not become an issue, but it's got potential to become a nuisance...esp. for the mods & arn...who will be keeping things in order.

just my .02¢...

Sun Baked

Jun 30, 2003, 04:21 PM

SPAM threads popping up everywhere because it's seen as acceptable...

Then there those darn low bandwidth moderators who would have trouble keeping up with all the pointless crap when the site goes insane from spill over.

Yay, pointless chitchat :rolleyes:

Kwyjibo

Jun 30, 2003, 05:00 PM

Originally posted by scem0
I too think it is a good idea. I think post count should be removed as a whole. Time since joining should be what determines when you can get a tar, or something like that.

scem0

I think the idea is that by 500 posts you have been for a while and probably know somehing and contributewell to the community as a whole... I like it this way but there were some people that got liek 500 posts jsut from the geek thread ... that defies the purpose of experience represented by posts.

MacFan25

Jun 30, 2003, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
there were some people that got liek 500 posts jsut from the geek thread ... that defies the purpose of experience represented by posts.
I'm not sure if the geek thread even counted toward post count, since it was put in wastland, and wasteland posts don't count toward post count.

anyway, i think it would be a good idea to have a chit-chat forum that doesn't count toward post count. :)

eyelikeart

Jun 30, 2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by MacFan25
anyway, i think it would be a good idea to have a chit-chat forum that doesn't count toward post count. :)

While I do feel that creating another forum for mindless discussions is ridiculous, I think it could server better than cutting off the community section...provided each & every person who posts there is fully aware it means nothing. ;)

Mr. Anderson

Jun 30, 2003, 06:30 PM

So what exactly is 'chit-chat'? You already have enough members rambling off inanely on every forum as it is.

I closed down that what's on your mind thread, like many others of that sort since it just is a matter of people being bored and not having anything to say. It gets out of hand and then it gets reported, then the mods have to deal with it. Why put everyone through it all - when its not going anywhere in the first place.

D ;)

vniow

Jun 30, 2003, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by scem0

Where is vniow (on vacation, right?) - I think she could explain why spamming isn't totally meaningless better than I could.

Sup?

Spam is spam and arn has made it very clear that its not allowed (although I can think of some threads that are still going on which are basically chats between three or four people...)
If you see obvious spam, it should be reported, those are the rules and if you don't like them, then tough.

BTW, who was it that contacted you on AIM (I saw it in your iChat thread) and asking for me? Just seems wierd, meh..

Haven't been online for a lot in the past couple weeks or so and definately not in AIM so hmm....

applemacdude

Jun 30, 2003, 08:22 PM

vniow where did your 'tar go? If you want a seperate place for "chit-chat" let arn use your server to do it. (Is this possible?)

shadowfax

Jun 30, 2003, 10:45 PM

scem0, maybe you would hold some sway on this if you actually, you know, contributed your part to the forums--by which i mean cash, greenbacks, moolah, denarii... the stuff that keeps us up here. there are people with like 5 posts that have already paid for their part here--and they aren't clamouring for a spam forum.

tazo

Jun 30, 2003, 11:15 PM

i am going to contribute pretty soon I think via Amazon. its twenty bux, and its through a site I actually trust and have used before.

MrMacMan

Jul 1, 2003, 12:01 AM

I don't want a spam forum, its annoying enough when people have one line comments (I am partially guilty, but I try to keep to a minimum).

I don't want a chit-chat forums, if it is gonna chew bandwitch, I say no.

tazo

Jul 1, 2003, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by MrMacman
I don't want a spam forum, its annoying enough when people have one line comments (I am partially guilty, but I try to keep to a minimum).

I agree with you basically, although something can be said for someone who doesn't ramble.

mc68k

Jul 1, 2003, 01:40 AM

i've found myself unsubscribing more frequently from threads that start meaningful, then end up in the hands of those chosen few who steer discussions away from mac/technology

pointless banter has always made me steer clear of the community section. i just hope that community section 'high' that some ppl get doesn't leave the part of the site it was intended for. i've witnessed communities with much more respect for the rules than this one.

it's still a great site :)

MacBandit

Jul 1, 2003, 01:51 AM

Originally posted by mc68k
i've found myself unsubscribing more frequently from threads that start meaningful, then end up in the hands of those chosen few who steer discussions away from mac/technology

pointless banter has always made me steer clear of the community section. i just hope that community section 'high' that some ppl get doesn't leave the part of the site it was intended for. i've witnessed communities with much more respect for the rules than this one.

it's still a great site :)

Agreed. Also if you want to just senselessly chit chat why don't you go join www.friendster.com or something. This is a MacRumors/Tech site and if you don't want to talk about that sort of thing go chat somewhere else. That's my feelings at least.

Durandal7

Jul 1, 2003, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by tazo
I agree with you basically, although something can be said for someone who doesn't ramble.

Indeed.

Sun Baked

Jul 1, 2003, 08:21 AM

Originally posted by tazo
I agree with you basically, although something can be said for someone who doesn't ramble. Yes indeed...

It's hard to tell if they're literate, or not, with the people constantly vomiting up one liners.

They may also be mentally incapable of stringing together more than a couple words, and making a single sentence may truly be heavy mental lifting.

The drugs, or alcohol, may make their thoughts wander.

I'm sure we could go on all day why they can only string together one word/line spam...

jelloshotsrule

Jul 1, 2003, 10:23 AM

Originally posted by MacBandit
Agreed. Also if you want to just senselessly chit chat why don't you go join www.friendster.com or something. This is a MacRumors/Tech site and if you don't want to talk about that sort of thing go chat somewhere else. That's my feelings at least.

whie i'm utterly opposed to spamming in general... here's where i disagree with what you just said....

i came here initially for mac stuff. maybe even some rumors. and then found some people with a similar sense of humor, and it kinda went from there a couple of late nights. so, while i don't think people generally seek out this site as one to just "chit chat" at, when you make some connections with people on here, it's natural to want to joke with them or whaetver.

that said, starting threads or having the sole intention of a thread with only a few people bothering with it, or taking a digression far off course, is dumb. now, taking an opportunity for a joke or a jab at someone occasionally, i think is part of it being a "community"...

in conclusion.

when even the "spam queen" says to not spam if it's frowned upon, i think that's saying something..

MacBandit

Jul 1, 2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
whie i'm utterly opposed to spamming in general... here's where i disagree with what you just said....

i came here initially for mac stuff. maybe even some rumors. and then found some people with a similar sense of humor, and it kinda went from there a couple of late nights. so, while i don't think people generally seek out this site as one to just "chit chat" at, when you make some connections with people on here, it's natural to want to joke with them or whaetver.

that said, starting threads or having the sole intention of a thread with only a few people bothering with it, or taking a digression far off course, is dumb. now, taking an opportunity for a joke or a jab at someone occasionally, i think is part of it being a "community"...

in conclusion.

when even the "spam queen" says to not spam if it's frowned upon, i think that's saying something..

I think what I was trying to say was that just chit chating is lame. I don't on the other hand have a problem with throwing in the occasional chit chat with your post that about such and such tech or rumor. That way you aren't wasting everyone's time when they read your post there is on topic subject matter and then there is a part that you can designate as off topic and they can skip it. Therfore I stick behind my original post saying if you just want to chit chat get lost.

wdlove

Jul 1, 2003, 11:53 AM

I'm not a chit chat type of person either. Not really good at joking around either. Most very intelligent individuals prefer that you get to the point. They don't want to hear a story, just the needed facts. Physicians are very much that way, I would want to give the some facts leading up to the situation. They only wanted to hear exactly wanted I wanted them to do, or my suggestions. I think that this is a very well run sight, for the most part I find everyone's comments interesting. What I don't like is the long posts!

Mr. Anderson

Jul 1, 2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
What I don't like is the long posts!

All depends on your definition of a long post. Most of the time the lengthiest posts in a tread are no more than a few paragraphs. Occasionally you'll get longer - but there's nothing wrong with that.

Usually if someone is going to spend the time to write one (not a copy and paste) they've taken an effort. Take that into consideration when you look at the one liners....;)

D

scem0

Jul 1, 2003, 12:10 PM

How about we try a chitchat forum for a week or something, see how it goes, and then decide whether to delete it or not.

Maybe have a poll concerning it.

scem0

Mr. Anderson

Jul 1, 2003, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by scem0
How about we try a chitchat forum for a week or something, see how it goes, and then decide whether to delete it or not.

None of the posts above seem to indicate that its going to happen due to many different issues. Are you that bored?

What exactly are you going to be talking about/saying?

D

eyelikeart

Jul 1, 2003, 12:27 PM

After reading more of this, I'm coming to the conclusion that this is futile. Jello brought up an interesting point: "this is a mac site." I have seen MR grow so much in the few years I've been around, but I think it's gone too far with having an entire forum dedicated to political discussions. Now, it's being asked to supply a "chit chat" forum so people can have mindless discussions. Granted, there are plenty of cases here where there's off-topic banter & irrelevant topics being brought up, but that's what the community is for.

I'm sorry, but "chit chat," that's what IM/chat is for. I was supportive to the "idea" at first, but I'm thinking it's a bad idea...period.

Durandal7

Jul 1, 2003, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by scem0
How about we try a chitchat forum for a week or something, see how it goes, and then decide whether to delete it or not.

Maybe have a poll concerning it.

scem0

You have already had your idea shot down by a number of members. The mods said no. Even arn told you no. Is there any reason that you are so insistent about your imagined "right" to spam someone's website that resides on their servers?

jelloshotsrule

Jul 1, 2003, 01:33 PM

Originally posted by scem0
How about we try a chitchat forum for a week or something, see how it goes, and then decide whether to delete it or not.

Maybe have a poll concerning it.

let's have a poll asking whether or not you should put up the cash, start your own server/site for "chit chat" and then you can spend all your time there....

wdlove

Jul 1, 2003, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
None of the posts above seem to indicate that its going to happen due to many different issues. Are you that bored?

What exactly are you going to be talking about/saying?

D

I think it revolves around the fact that it's summer. scem0 wants ot find something interesting to do this summer. It's a compliment to the forum that he has chosen this sight. Maybe we could have a short trial for his sake. How about scem0 becoming a contributor. This might encourage him if such a trial were offered! :cool:

Mr. Anderson

Jul 1, 2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
scem0 wants ot find something interesting to do this summer. It's a compliment to the forum that he has chosen this sight. Maybe we could have a short trial for his sake. How about scem0 becoming a contributor.

What? Why are you defending him after all that's been said? Its silly and as has already been pointed out - arn has considered it and its a no go.....

Why doesn't scem0 get a job and get more money to pay for his new G5 that he wants to buy but doesn't have all the funds for......:rolleyes:

There are so many more productive ways to spend your time......

D

Sun Baked

Jul 1, 2003, 02:34 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
I think it revolves around the fact that it's summer. scem0 wants ot find something interesting to do this summer. It's a compliment to the forum that he has chosen this sight. Maybe we could have a short trial for his sake. How about scem0 becoming a contributor. This might encourage him if such a trial were offered! :cool: scem0's using the same logic that was used during the geek thread's initial closing, whine until somebody gives in.

But to have a trial, isn't that a little barbaric?

What happens if he's found guilty?

Of course mob justice does sound a bit better, nothing like a good lynching to spice up the summer.

Mr. Anderson

Jul 1, 2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Of course mob justice does sound a bit better, nothing like a good lynching to spice up the summer.

Who's going to get the posse together....

Arn's going to deputize a bunch of regulars and we're all going to go out and throw some ropes over the closest tree limb.....;)

Blah....just give it a rest folks, ok?

:rolleyes:

scem0

Jul 1, 2003, 02:47 PM

Argh - sorry I was just making a suggestion not demanding anything... :rolleyes:

Yes, it has been shot down, but i don't think it would make the sight a LOT slower or make that big of a difference to TRY it out for a week. Nothing permanent.

What would we talk about? I honestly have no clue but I have a feeling it would lead to sex :p.

But if arn doesnt want to try it for a week that's fine. Just let this thread die.

wdlove - well that is not really why I want a chit chat forum... I want a chit chat forum because I think I would have more fun posting there.

sun baked - call it what you will, but I am just stating what I think COULD be a good idea. Whether arn wants to try it is his decision.

vniow - I forgot him/her name. Let me see if its on my cell phone still. Nope. Sorry I have no clue.

Mr. Anderson - yeah, I do need to get a job. :o ;) ;)

Durandal - they said no to doing it permanently not to trying it.

eyelikeart - yes, chitchat should be a chat thing, but forums offer things that chat programs don't. Your message is still there a day later, a year later, etc, you can write something to someone when they're not there, the list goes on and on.

I'm not demanding anything. I just didn't think it was THAT bad of an idea, and I thought I would propose a SMALL test that might show everyone that it wouldn't cause problems. And if the test did cause problems, then the chitchat forum could be deleted and everything would go back to normal.

Basically, I was just saying it wouldn't hurt to try. But ultimately it is Arn's decision.

I will respect whatever he says.

scem0

[oh and mr. anderson i started typing this before you said to give it a rest. hehe :)]

wdlove

Jul 1, 2003, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Who's going to get the posse together....

Arn's going to deputize a bunch of regulars and we're all going to go out and throw some ropes over the closest tree limb.....;)

Blah....just give it a rest folks, ok?

:rolleyes:

I was just trying to lend support to scem0, happen to think he's a good young man. He's one that a lot of young people could benefit from his knowledge. I also look up to Mr. Anderson, so I agree to his request.

My suggestion would be that this topic has been fully explored. The final decison has been made. Now would be the time for this thread's death, please close!

jelloshotsrule

Jul 1, 2003, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by wdlove
I was just trying to lend support to scem0, happen to think he's a good young man. He's one that a lot of young people could benefit from his knowledge. I also look up to Mr. Anderson, so I agree to his request.

My suggestion would be that this topic has been fully explored. The final decison has been made. Now would be the time for this thread's death, please close!

well wdlove, for what it's worth... i look up to you! ;)

originally by scem

eyelikeart - yes, chitchat should be a chat thing, but forums offer things that chat programs don't. Your message is still there a day later, a year later, etc, you can write something to someone when they're not there, the list goes on and on.

email.

shadowfax

Jul 1, 2003, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
email. iChat also has a really nice chat logging feature that works pretty well. you could get a .Mac account and upload all your chats. you could even write a script to parse them as html and make them into navigable online collections of chats. it could be kinda cool, actually.

MacBandit

Jul 1, 2003, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by scem0
eyelikeart - yes, chitchat should be a chat thing, but forums offer things that chat programs don't. Your message is still there a day later, a year later, etc, you can write something to someone when they're not there, the list goes on and on.

There are thousands upon thousands of forums on the web and many of them allow just what you are suggesting mindless chatter. If you really want to do that go find one of those don't ruin this place for the rest of us. Also like I have suggested I think you are a perfecet candidate for www.friendster.com .