I can buy a quad windows machine for 1000 less than Mac Pro.. why?

[newportmac]

Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
1066MHz frontside bus
8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

[Me1000]

because macs are better!

you look inside the Mac Pro and you will see that it is a lot cleaner inside than any PC. There are a lot of things that add up on the Mac vs the PC...

the ability to run OS X for instance

[flopticalcube]

Oh no.... not again??!?!?!

[SuperCompu2]

build quality? better components (other than processor)?

better service and support?

Who knows. But if money is an issue I suppose its a great deal.

[Airforce]

Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
1066MHz frontside bus
8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

It's called the "Apple tax".

It's the same hardware in a different package. To some people, it is worth it. To others, it's a waste of money. :)

[biturbomunkie]

gateway needs customers desperately?

it's a good deal. go buy it and tell us the difference.

[AdeFowler]

Oh no.... not again??!?!?!
My thoughts exactly.

It does seem cheap. I'd guess that Gateway's margins aren't great. I'd still rather pay more for a mac with OSX.

[robbieduncan]

That's a single CPU on a single socket motherboard with one FSB.

Mac Pros use TWO CPUs on DUAL socket motherboards with TWO FSBs. Intel charge lots more for CPUs that work in dual socket configurations: you can't use two standard Core2 Duo (or Quad) CPUs. You must use Xeons. That's most fo the cost right there.

[Bigheadache]

Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
1066MHz frontside bus
8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

That's not a valid comparison. Mac Pros are built off Intel's server/workstation platform and uses features like ECC ram, a server/workstation grade chipset, etc which all cost above consumer grade parts. If you specced it up using equivalent Xeon cpus, Tyan/Supermicro/intel mobos, FB-DIMMs then the margin is much narrower.

[someguy]

Why do so many people ask this question?

Why is anything more expensive than anything else?

Because companies are going to charge whatever people will pay for the product!

Why is it $1000 more? Because people will PAY $1000 more to have it. Case closed. End of story.


<off-topic>Gateway still makes computers?</off-topic>

[pengu]

i cant believe you're trying to compare machines based on 2 features (cpu and ram)

[darklyt]

I can't believe he's comparing a single processor machine with a two processor machine that can hold up to 16 gigs of RAM...

[Counter]

Why do so many people ask this question?

Why is anything more expensive than anything else?

Because companies are going to charge whatever people will pay for the product!

Why is it $1000 more? Because people will PAY $1000 more to have it. Case closed. End of story.


<off-topic>Gateway still makes computers?</off-topic>

Or, you never know, it might cost more to make one than the other.

[amc382]

Mac's use the xeon chip... and have a 1333mhz bus.

[stoid]

I can't believe that Apple doesn't offer a mid-range headless Mac that would make stupid threads like this irrelevant.

<off-topic>Gateway still makes computers?</off-topic>

Apparently. My university just signed another 10 year deal with them to continue to supply all students with cheap laptops. :(

[hawaiian]

I believe Intel still has their Xeon chips running cache at full clock speed while the regular Core chips run cache at 1/2 clock speed. Feel free to correct me if this this has changed but I'm pretty sure this is still the case. Also, you're probably going to want to compensate for the difference in other hardware components as well. If you, or someone else, makes the adjustments, let us know what you find.

[iSee]

Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
1066MHz frontside bus
8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

I can't find this configuration on Gateway's site. Link?

[GFLPraxis]

Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
1066MHz frontside bus
8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

This machine has the just-released four-cores-on-one-chip processor from Intel.

The Mac Pro has two-dual-core processors. That's why.

[4God]

I can buy a quad windows machine for 1000 less than Mac Pro....

Yes you can, so go ahead and do it and then tell me how you like OSX - Oh wait, you won't be able to run it. :rolleyes:
Alright then, tell me how you like that RAM expandablity up to 16GB - Oh wait, you can't do that either. :rolleyes:
Well maybe you can tell me how you like those incredible Dual Xeons - Oh wait, you can't use those either. :rolleyes:
How 'bout those built-in dual ethernet ports? - Oh wait, not included either. :rolleyes:
Or how 'bout the built-in 2 Firewire 400 and 2 Firewire 800 ports? - Oh wait, those aren't included either. :rolleyes:

[Pressure]

You shouldn't really compare consumer products with workstation products.

You need Error Correction Code (ECC) in an workstation environment because stability is much more important than speed.

You need a workstation chipset, like the 5000V/X/P and a workstation grade processor.

Of course, you just need to take a look at the craftsmanship of the case to notice the quality of the Mac Pro.

[MacAficionado]

* Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
* 1066MHz frontside bus
* 8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
* 2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Look at the Specs on the computer and the one thing that stands out the most from the little details on the Gateway is: "Expandable to 4GB"
Mac Pro is expandable to 16GB of RAM. Now when you get into that territory, it is a Workstation class motherboard and it needs more current, fully buffered RAM, ECC, etc.
If you really compare the computers, all the specs, then you will probably see why the Mac Pro costs more than this particular Gateway you speak of.
It is no "Apple Tax", nor the answer it is a simple as "Macs are better". They are better equipped with features not present in the Gateway.
Do a little more investigation and you may find you do not need a Mac Pro, but for the real professionals that need lots of RAM, ECC RAM, Firewire, etc, they will pull out the cash for a better equipped computer wether it is a Mac or a Dell.

[newportmac]

gateway needs customers desperately?

it's a good deal. go buy it and tell us the difference.

Yeah.. I was expecting a few of the "mindless I follow apple no matter what they do"...

Gateway was one example.. you'll find a ton begining to emerge as intel q6600, 6700 and 6800 CPU's drop in price..

I agree 100&#37; that no machine is cleaner inside than the Mac Pro. The HD array is a thing to behold.. I agree its a work of art but for the $$$ it definetly needs a new graphics card to start with...

So does the Mac Pro have basically TWO quads in it? I thought that was the new 8 core would have two quads.. ????

[Aea]

Server Motherboards cost 50-100% more on average, Server Chips (Xeons) cost 75-100% more on average. The Mac Pro is built on a server grade platform, it's capable of running up to 8 cores, your gateway on the other hand is built on a desktop platform with a maximum of 4 cores. Intel charges a premium for Xeons, which have other benefits as well :)

[ZzBoG]

Ok now, can anybody provide a link to the PC, which equals (or at least is even with) Mac Pro by config and has some price tagged?

Just to get the correct comparison?

Please.

[Zwhaler]

Ok now, can anybody provide a link to the PC, which equals (or at least is even with) Mac Pro by config and has some price tagged?

Just to get the correct comparison?

Please.

Jobs did this comparison back at last years WWDC, and If I remember correctly, an Equivilant 2.66 Xeon Dell cost 700 dollars more than the stock Mac Pro. (the dell cost about 3200 dollars)

[Sbrocket]

Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
1066MHz frontside bus
8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

How are you possibly comparing a substandard Gateway machine, very likely built with less-than-ideal components, to a Mac Pro machine with double the processor cores? And how are you trying to compare two machines based only on two dimensions (RAM and processors).

I mean, come on. This is just flamebait. You can't actually be seriously comparing this "machine", which you don't even provide a link to, to a Apple Mac Pro?

[cube]

They have the same number of cores, but the Mac has faster FSB, two memory controllers and takes more RAM.

[dmaxdmax]

I've never used iLife for Windows - let us know how it is.

[Zwhaler]

They have the same number of cores, but the Mac has faster FSB, two memory controllers and takes more RAM.

Your forgetting that the Mac Pro is in fact, a Mac (which is above all why it is better than the Hateway)

[cube]

Your forgetting that the Mac Pro is in fact, a Mac (which is above all why it is better than the Hateway)

It also has 4 x16-sized slots whose bandwidth can be configured (as it doesn't have 64 lanes).

[Sdashiki]

hasnt it been shown in every thread every since the Intel transition that if you buy the parts used in a MacPro and build a PC from it, the costs are quite similar?

As always:

YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!

computer pricing hasnt changed in 20 years. A "decent" machine is $1500 and a kick ass super machine for the day is $3000. Give or take, this is how its always been on the consumer market.

[valiar]

It is a long standing wisdom on any internet forum: don't feed the trolls (like the original poster). Now to substance.

You CANNOT buy a Gateway system like the one the original poster described!

Please go to Gateway site yourselves and check it out. Gateway ONLY sells desktops with ordinary Core Duo chips. Even their "workstation class" desktop features a Core Duo chip. No, it is not upgradeable to quad. Yes, it is more expensive than Mac Pro if you configure it comparably (notwithstanding the CPU).

The ONLY way to buy a quad-core machine from Gateway is to buy one of their "better" servers. Which is WAY more expensive than $1500. And comes with integrated crappy video chip (it is a server, after all).

I dare the OP to provide a link to the system in question, or a model number :)

[SDAVE]

This is a stupid thread....the OP is way off base.

I build PC's, and the Mac Pro, part by part, is actually CHEAPER when you get it instead of building it. For example, the 3.0Ghz Quad Core Xeon Clovertowns cost about $1,800 each (once they come out retail)...so $3,600 for the CPU's...are you forgetting the $500 server motherboard? HD? Graphics card? Case? Fans? I am not counting RAM here, because this is where Apple makes money.

[Mundy]

This isn't hard to figure out. The Intel Q6600 is not a workstation CPU. While it has four cores, the fact that it occupies a single socket (and therefore a single bus) somewhat limits its performance. In fact, most benchmarks that take advantage of multiple cores reveal the Q6600 to be hindered by FSB bottlenecks. While two Conroes on a single die sounds great in theory, in reality it does not measure up to dual dual-core workstations.

[BornAgainMac]

You shouldn't really compare consumer products with workstation products.


Or compare workstation products with playstation products.

[epochblue]

I know it's already been said, but....

http://homepage.mac.com/aurich/ars/locks/feed_trolls.gif

[Cromulent]

So does the Mac Pro have basically TWO quads in it? I thought that was the new 8 core would have two quads.. ????

The 8 core Mac Pro has two quads in it (funny that...) and the 4 core has two dual core CPUs in it.

Your price comparison is completely and utterly baseless. It means nothing. The computer you are trying to compare to a Mac Pro uses consumer grade components as has been stated many times before where as the Mac Pro uses the Xeon processor, FB-DIMM ECC RAM and a workstation class motherboard / chipset.

If you are going to try and compare a PC with a Mac at least make sure your comparison is meaningful.

It would be like me saying something like :

OMG I can get a Mac Mini for £500 yet that PC costs £1000 why are PCs so much more expensive than macs?

[4God]

I know it's already been said, but....

http://homepage.mac.com/aurich/ars/locks/feed_trolls.gif

Oops, I forgot. :p

[skubish]

I am sorry but that Gateway doesn't compare to a Mac Pro in anyway.

The only system that is similar is a server station made by Dell which is actually more expensive than the Mac Pro.

The processors are different.
The Mac Pro has 16mb of L2 (8mb for each processor)
Dual 1.33ghz frontside buses each at 64bit.

The Mac Pro will leave that Gateway in the dust.

[gnasher729]

Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?

I don't know why. But I know why Gateway has a market capitalisation of $630 million, and Apple is valued at about $107bn, that is about 160 times as much.

Or maybe I know why: Because nobody would buy a Gateway for $2500 :D

[trainguy77]

http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/macproprice/index.php

Yes prices may have changed since then but i don't think by much at all....the mac pro is welll priced. As of those two machines the mac pro has some things the dell doesn't for example the number of temperature sensors.

[thecritix]

simple, OSX.
worth the extra money alone.

[kuebby]

Reliability. Read Consumer Reports. Apple computers fail on a rate far below any other company (except IBM). Gateways on the other hand are some of the most likely computers to fail.

[yellow]

Intel® Core™2 Quad processor Q6600 with 4 processing cores
1066MHz frontside bus
8MB L2 cache and 2.4GHz processor speed per core
2GB PC2-5300 DDR2 memory for multitasking power, expandable to 4GB


Why does this Gateway sell for 1500 when a Mac Pro goes for 2500?


Well, for starters, It's 2x Conroes, and MP has 2x Woodcrest. Secondly, you're not getting OS X on a Gateway.

[sonarghost]

Yes you can, so go ahead and do it and then tell me how you like OSX - Oh wait, you won't be able to run it. :rolleyes:
Alright then, tell me how you like that RAM expandablity up to 16GB - Oh wait, you can't do that either. :rolleyes:
Well maybe you can tell me how you like those incredible Dual Xeons - Oh wait, you can't use those either. :rolleyes:
How 'bout those built-in dual ethernet ports? - Oh wait, not included either. :rolleyes:
Or how 'bout the built-in 2 Firewire 400 and 2 Firewire 800 ports? - Oh wait, those aren't included either. :rolleyes:

Amen..this pretty much sums it up.....

[flopticalcube]

If the OP wanted to compare prices he would have had a more solid argument with the mini or the iMac. Taking on Mac Pro is a bit of a stretch.

[newportmac]

It is a long standing wisdom on any internet forum: don't feed the trolls (like the original poster). Now to substance.

You CANNOT buy a Gateway system like the one the original poster described!

I dare the OP to provide a link to the system in question, or a model number :)

I hope you're not a gambler.. here is you link.. next time double dare me...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8297256&st=q6600&type=product&id=1173577698530

This is a stupid thread....the OP is way off base.

I build PC's, and the Mac Pro, part by part, is actually CHEAPER when you get it instead of building it. For example, the 3.0Ghz Quad Core Xeon Clovertowns cost about $1,800 each (once they come out retail)...so $3,600 for the CPU's...are you forgetting the $500 server motherboard? HD? Graphics card? Case? Fans? I am not counting RAM here, because this is where Apple makes money.

Apparently you don't build them for a profit... The 2.66 sell for $718 each.. so thats $1436 for the two genius.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117089

You're right.. this thread is a waste of time.. MINE. I was looking for contructive dialog on why I should spend an extra grand.. Instead I got a bunch of xxx xxxx whining about how great apple is and how bad windows is.. just the old rethoric that is not at all meaningful to an intelligent conversqtion..

[newportmac]

One last thought.. while you do you math again on building the Mac Pro.. figure 72 bucks for the base graphics card.. like I said.. it was a great machine last year.. its dated and not a good value today.. thats all my point was.. why can gateway build a nice machine for a grand less.. because Apple my friends is screwing the buyer and making a ton of profit off this box.. when buyers stop buying it and demand an upgrade.. then apple will move. Until then.. they reap the profit off old technology because sombies buy them.. because its an apple.. ugh..

[flopticalcube]

Wow! That was a bit harsh. There was plenty of constructive reasons given why the MP was better than said Gateway, you just chose to ignore them and throw insults at the posters. What did you expect coming to a Mac forum? Questions like yours are posted nearly every day and it gets a little tiring picking through the pieces all the time.

[iSee]

I hope you're not a gambler.. here is you link.. next time double dare me...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8297256&st=q6600&type=product&id=1173577698530

Not quite what you originally described since it's $200 more.
It's a great deal, though. I suggest you buy it.

[dornoforpyros]

because you can, enjoy your new PC.

[epochblue]

You're right.. this thread is a waste of time.. MINE. I was looking for contructive dialog on why I should spend an extra grand.. Instead I got a bunch of xxx xxxx whining about how great apple is and how bad windows is.. just the old rethoric that is not at all meaningful to an intelligent conversqtion..

I must say, I've read every post in this thread, and there have been NUMEROUS posts that are extremely constructive as to why the Gateway doesn't match up (procs, expandability, reliability scores, peripheral support, internal cleanliness, OS X, to name a few). Just because you choose to selectively ignore posts doesn't mean they weren't made.

One last thought.. while you do you math again on building the Mac Pro.. figure 72 bucks for the base graphics card.. like I said.. it was a great machine last year.. its dated and not a good value today.. thats all my point was.. why can gateway build a nice machine for a grand less.. because Apple my friends is screwing the buyer and making a ton of profit off this box.. when buyers stop buying it and demand an upgrade.. then apple will move. Until then.. they reap the profit off old technology because sombies buy them.. because its an apple.. ugh..

Like you said, it's the BASE graphics card. If you require something better, feel free to upgrade to something better. And, yes, you can build a "nice" Gateway machine for a grand less, but your original point was that you can build an EQUIVALENT Gateway for a grand less. I think we've pretty well shown that you simply can't do that.

If you want to go hating on Apple because you think they're computer are overpriced, that's perfectly fine, but please quit trolling here.

[suneohair]

One last thought.. while you do you math again on building the Mac Pro.. figure 72 bucks for the base graphics card.. like I said.. it was a great machine last year.. its dated and not a good value today.. thats all my point was.. why can gateway build a nice machine for a grand less.. because Apple my friends is screwing the buyer and making a ton of profit off this box.. when buyers stop buying it and demand an upgrade.. then apple will move. Until then.. they reap the profit off old technology because sombies buy them.. because its an apple.. ugh..

I'm not buying :) Wait for the update it will be worth

[Keebler]

bend your head this way....there it is...there it is...

slap

:)

lol just a friendly tap. i haven't looked at the posts, but i'm sure the answers are there - easier to use; better software, reliability..... and most of all...no ******* windows :)

[4God]

Removed harsh pic, but that doesn't change my opinion.

[rhsgolfer33]

why can gateway build a nice machine for a grand less.. because Apple my friends is screwing the buyer and making a ton of profit off this box.. when buyers stop buying it and demand an upgrade.. then apple will move. Until then.. they reap the profit off old technology because sombies buy them.. because its an apple.. ugh..

Wow, did you read the thread at all? Your beloved gateway and the Mac Pro are not even comparable! They are not even in the same class! It's like comparing a BMW 5 series to a Ferrari Enzo, sure they are both nice cars, but ones a freaking family sedan and the other is basically a raced tuned sports car. The Gateway is a fast CONSUMER quality machine, while the Mac Pro is a PROFESSIONAL quality WORKSTATION, there is a huge difference between the components in the machines. Thats why one is $1500 and the other is $2500, just like the BMW is about $45,000 and the Enzo sold for over a million.

Oh, and next time you post a thread you might consider reading the many responses that pointed this same thing out before you formulate your counter-responses.

[netdog]

I must say, I've read every post in this thread, and there have been NUMEROUS posts that are extremely constructive as to why the Gateway doesn't match up (procs, expandability, reliability scores, peripheral support, internal cleanliness, OS X, to name a few).

But the Gateway sure matches up to OS X. It comes with Vista!!! :p

[Sun Baked]

It is so much fun feeding the trolls to the sharks, and just as much fun tenderizing them by pounding them into the dirt.

Can't have the sharks choking on a tough piece of gristle now can we. :o :p

[SDAVE]

I hope you're not a gambler.. here is you link.. next time double dare me...
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8297256&st=q6600&type=product&id=1173577698530



Apparently you don't build them for a profit... The 2.66 sell for $718 each.. so thats $1436 for the two genius.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117089

You're right.. this thread is a waste of time.. MINE. I was looking for contructive dialog on why I should spend an extra grand.. Instead I got a bunch of xxx xxxx whining about how great apple is and how bad windows is.. just the old rethoric that is not at all meaningful to an intelligent conversqtion..

Sorry Genius but you got the wrong CPU's. I was comparing CLOVERTOWN 5355 CPU's (5360's are included on Apple, but not out to the market). Just the Quad Core CPU's in the Mac Pro cost about $3,600. Xeon is workstation class CPU's, Core 2 Duo/Quad are Consumer class CPU's.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80921-95&prodlist=froogle

$1190 per CPU. Shut down. Real hard.

And try to spell right next time, you wouldn't want people to laugh at you, you troll. Go built your own Quad Core Xeon 3.0Ghz machine, and tell me how much it costs you.

I love both Windows and Apple...been using both for years, so I don't see a reason why one system should be put on a pedestal. They each have their own purposes....they are merely tools, unless you're a super geek and care about what other people think...in that case, you might need psychological help, and I can't help you that way. See a therapist....or better yet, wear some glasses and read a few posts in YOUR thread where there have been given many explanations to why Mac Pro costs so much. Compare the Gateway to the iMac with similar specs...better yet, I'll tell you straight up that Gateway sucks, I'd rather built my own PC if I needed one.

[smiddlehurst]

One last thought.. while you do you math again on building the Mac Pro.. figure 72 bucks for the base graphics card.. like I said.. it was a great machine last year.. its dated and not a good value today.. thats all my point was.. why can gateway build a nice machine for a grand less.. because Apple my friends is screwing the buyer and making a ton of profit off this box.. when buyers stop buying it and demand an upgrade.. then apple will move. Until then.. they reap the profit off old technology because sombies buy them.. because its an apple.. ugh..

Okay, I'll have a shot at this, what the hell I'm bored anyway.

1) The machine you have provided a link to costs $1,699 on the Best Buy site BUT that's discounted from the list price of $2,099 on the Gateway web site so really that's the price you should be using for comparison.

2) The Mac Pro (MP) is a workstation class machine, this gateway is a top end gaming machine. This affects everything from the motherboard up and makes this category of machine a hell of a lot more expensive. This applies across the board, regardless of manufacturer. What does this mean to the end user? Well, for a start the MP is a hell of a lot more expandable than the gateway machine you listed. The MP has four full length PCI-E slots, the Gateway has two but only one capable of running flat out. The Mac Pro uses fully buffered memory, the Gateway doesn't. Max memory is 4Gb on the Gateway and 16Gb on the MP. Actually, that figure alone should show you that these machines are aimed at two entirely different markets. The gateway is for those that want the absolute maximum FPS from Crysis and do the occasional bit of photoshop work (and anything with video which is something the Core 2 Quad is meant to be very good at). The Mac Pro is for those that work with photoshop images that have a memory footprint measured in gigabytes and who measure a crash or lost work in terms of hundred (if not thousands) of dollars per hour.

3) The big price killer though is the processors. You seem to be getting confused between cores and processors. The Gateway uses intel's latest Core 2 Quad (stupid name I know) which puts 4 cores onto one chip. That means that, while you may have four cores available, you will never be able to make full use of all these cores as there is only one path from the chip to the rest of the system. Effectively the processor is bottlenecked by EVERYTHING else in the system. The Mac Pro on the other hand uses two processors each with two cores (in the four core configuration) and each with their own dedicated path to the rest of the system. Ironically the first round of reviews on the Quad Core processors from Intel suggest they are actually best suited to application work rather than gaming but the system this particular processor is stuck in means a lot of professionals would struggle to realise the full potential of the processor. Even under those tests that really favour the Quad Core processor there is only around a 60% improvement over the fastest Dual Core, when using something like Photoshop that drops into the 10 - 20 percent region.

There's a lot more that could be said on this but I'd be repeating what's already been written. To sum up though - you asked the question "I can buy a quad windows machine for £1,000 less than Mac Pro - why?". The answer is: because you are not comparing like-for-like systems and Apple does not (currently) make a desktop-class machine with a quad core processor. Their current quad-core offering is a workstation-class machine with all of the extra costs for higher quality / better performing components and scope for expansion that implies. It's a hole in Apple's product range that they don't offer a high-end consumer machine (though whether it's a hole they need to fill is questionable) but, when compared to an equivalent workstation from any other manufacturer, the Mac Pro is actually very competitive and therefore your argument that it's "not good value" is invalid.

[SDAVE]

I think the OP is a huge troll...I don't know why I even wasted 2 posts on this guy...and neither should you.

By the way, MacPro supports upto 32GB :)

[Killyp]

Yeh I was just gonna say, up to 32 gb of RAM.

What about all the other little things, like the hard drive bandwidth? You could go ahead and fit 10krpm raptors in that Gaytway and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

Also what about the chipset? The fact that it can only take up to 4 gigs of RAM is bit of a giveaway that it's not going to be that great quality.

What about how stable the power supply is under large varying demands from different cards and areas of the computer?

Is the power supply able to take varying voltages from the power socket and still successfully keep the hard drives spinning at the rate they need to be without causing a head crash (and hence wiping all your data)? You'd be surprised how much the power from sockets generally worldwide varies during weather and temperature changes.

Is it well shielded from electromagnetic interference? Hard Drives can produce a lot of this and unless the machine is well internally shielded, you'll end up with interference between the hard drives and other areas of the computer, ultimately just increasing noise levels and slowing everything down/increasing the amount of lost bits.

What about the quality of the casing itself? Surely you don't want to spend anything over $1000 on a low-grade-plastic encased computer? I don't, I was very disappointed with the build quality of my Dell (one of the most expensive configurable computer you could order from then when I bought it).

What about the OS on your computer, and it's upgrade path? Is it going to be cheap to keep the machine up to spec to run the latest version? The £1500 Dell I bought a few years ago won't run Vista without £560 of upgrades (if you can find a cheaper upgrade path, then be sure to tell me). My G3 iMac needed £60 of updates to go from OS 9 to Tiger (more RAM, bigger HDD), that's ten years of computer progression, and it only needs that amount to run Tiger stably and quickly.


What you're doing is saying "Why should I buy the BMW when I might as well buy the Nissan when their engines both produce the same power, they're both rear wheel drive and the Nissan is $40k less?

They are completely different machines

[newportmac]

Smiddlehurst... got one thing to say to you brother.. THANKS! That had to be the best explination of why the two computers are both different physically as well as in price. I'm not a troll.. I like apple's OS and want to buy an apple.. I was just trying to appreciate why I should spend an extra 1,000. Smiddlehurst explained why in such a really logical and non-emotional maneer.. I hope you're a teacher man.. thanks a lot!

[djbahdow01]

Smiddlehurst... got one thing to say to you brother.. THANKS! That had to be the best explination of why the two computers are both different physically as well as in price. I'm not a troll.. I like apple's OS and want to buy an apple.. I was just trying to appreciate why I should spend an extra 1,000. Smiddlehurst explained why in such a really logical and non-emotional maneer.. I hope you're a teacher man.. thanks a lot!


As much as smiddlehurst has helped you out, almost every post that talks about the processors and capabilities and differences between the 2 machines have already been said. As everyone else including smiddlehurst has said you were comparing apples and oranges, no pun intended. I won't get into details its been reiterated too many times already. Guess smiddlehurst just worded it right for you.

[ZzBoG]

OFFTOPIC!

Somebody, pleaaaase, explain me what the Troll thing is about and where did it come from?

[Sbrocket]

OFFTOPIC!

Somebody, pleaaaase, explain me what the Troll thing is about and where did it come from?

"One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument"

Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

[newportmac]

"One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument"

Source: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

Troll.. a label sometimes given to someone who might ask a question or post something that one does not agree with.. so let label him a troll in an attempt to discredit anything he says...

[suneohair]

I can get an awesome Mac Pro for $1999 with a special discount and it is way better than the discounted Gateway the OP is raving about. And its only $300 more!! Woo hoo!

Seriously. The ability to shop around and looks up special deals doesn't end with Apple computers. When I bought a Cinema Display last year, I bought gift cards on eBay and ended up saving over $200.

If you can't be smart about your purchase and try to save money so you don't have to pay "$1000 more :rolleyes: " that really is your own fault.

Also, you lied about the actual price and left out of the MSRP on it.

Others have already stated the difference here. I am not going to go into that. Again, if you can't look at the hardware and decide for yourself that is your fault. You seem to exhibit some amount of intelligence you should carry that over to this discussion. Unless I am mistaken about that :D

Troll.. a label sometimes given to someone who might ask a question or post something that one does not agree with.. so let label him a troll in an attempt to discredit anything he says...

Sorry please try again! A troll is someone who comes to a forum to spark a discussion that is absolutely ridiculous. That fits here.

[Sbrocket]

Troll.. a label sometimes given to someone who might ask a question or post something that one does not agree with.. so let label him a troll in an attempt to discredit anything he says...

Well its either that or you're just clueless and really shouldn't be posting such an inflammatory post in Mac forum without expecting a few abrasive answers.

So which is it? Are you a troll, or are you just ignorantly posting flamebait? I don't like labeling people as much as the next guy, but you're seriously reaching here.

1) Inflammatory post that is seemingly clueless...check
2) Incredulity when some sarcastic/less than coddling posts appear...check
3) Arguing with said people...check

N.B. I'm not trying to purposefully be rude or bite your head off here, just trying to point out what it looks like you're doing from my point of view.

[wyatt23]

i think the troll is also someone who says something with good intentions, but just words it incorrectly or a way that really is going to piss people off.


in this case... i'm going to side with newportmac and say he wasn't trolling at all. it turns into trolling when we all jump in and think he's trolling.

all he/she did was ask why this computer was $1000 less.
sometimes we mac users are a little too defensive. sometimes it's a good thing. sometimes it's not very welcoming.

[bowens]

To get the specs closer you would have to choose a server from Gateway. I speced a Gateway as close as I could to a MacPro and here is what I came up with.

MacPro:

Two 3.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
1GB (2 x 512MB)
250GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
NVIDIA GeForce 7300 GT 256MB (single-link DVI/dual-link DVI)
One 16x SuperDrive
Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English

Price: 3,298.00


Gateway:

16X Super MFDVDRW/ DVD-RAM+/ -R/ CD-R/ RW Double Layer Writer
250GB 7200 RPM SATA II/ 300 Hard Drive PMR Array 1
(2) Intel® XEON® Dual-Core 5160 Processor 3.0GHz 4MB Cache/ 1333MHz FSB

I'm not sure about the video card, it didn't give me an option.

The Gateway also includes no OS.

Price: 3,928.00


It seems to me like the MacPro is the better deal.

[yellow]

because Apple my friends is screwing the buyer and making a ton of profit off this box..

What exactly are you basing this on?

Does Apple sell as many Mac Pros as Gateway sells of their "comparable*" Desktop? Do their get their parts as cheaply? Are they able to lower their price per unit by bundling tons of crapware?

Time to take econ again, maybe? :)



*: Again, what you initially listed is NOT comparable to the Mac Pro.

[Sdashiki]

LoL.

profit! ha, what a concept.

this thread is deteriorating quickly into a pile of mush.


macs arent more expensive; get over it. :D

[epochblue]

in this case... i'm going to side with newportmac and say he wasn't trolling at all. it turns into trolling when we all jump in and think he's trolling.

all he/she did was ask why this computer was $1000 less.
sometimes we mac users are a little too defensive. sometimes it's a good thing. sometimes it's not very welcoming.

A potentially fair assessment. His original post was probably not trolling, just grossly misinformed. He became a troll/flamebaiter when he said,

You're right.. this thread is a waste of time.. MINE. I was looking for contructive dialog on why I should spend an extra grand.. Instead I got a bunch of xxx xxxx whining about how great apple is and how bad windows is.. just the old rethoric that is not at all meaningful to an intelligent conversqtion..

...and when he said this...

thats all my point was.. why can gateway build a nice machine for a grand less.. because Apple my friends is screwing the buyer and making a ton of profit off this box.. when buyers stop buying it and demand an upgrade.. then apple will move. Until then.. they reap the profit off old technology because sombies buy them.. because its an apple.. ugh..

Neither of those posts imply that he simply misinformed, as he's clearly getting defensive, selectively ignoring posts, and spouting anti-Apple BS while ignoring the simple fact that he's comparing incomparable machines.

The "they reap the profit off old technology because sombies [sic] buy them...because its an apple.. ugh.." quote particularly REEKS of troll-like behavior.

[Xeem]

Oh no.... not again??!?!?!

My thoughts exactly :rolleyes: .