Is there a risk to downloading music? [Archive]

scem0

Jul 24, 2003, 11:51 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
ask her to pay for all the cds of the albums/songs you've downloaded... she'll change her mind quickly. ;)

Already suggested that.... She says I should buy my CDs.

She must not realize what a tight-wad I am. I have bought about 3 CDs my entire life with my own money.

I never spend my money... Not even for candy at the movies or little frills like that. I wonder if that will end up hurting or helping me... ;)

Well, I never download songs either, but when I get my G5 I plan on having plenty of music on it. Music is a big part of my life - I think it should be a big part of everyone's life, but I will never go out and spend $20+ on an album. Certainly not when I can get them for free.

I really don't want to change this into a morality argument, so can people just answer my question:

Is there a big enough risk in downloading music that one should stop?

scem0

tpjunkie

Jul 24, 2003, 11:53 PM

The RIAA is starting to get nasty, and I have heard they've been looking into creating dummy MP3s with very destructive virii in them...I'm not even sure if something like that would be legal, as it probably falls under cyber-terrorism, but it seems to me the RIAA is just getting nastier all the time

EDIT: (Upon seeing Scem0's post while I was posting) Well, first off, it depends on the program you are using to download files with. The RIAA is obtaining ip addresses mainly though the immense amount of spyware built into Kazaa. I'm sure the same could be done with many of the Mac P2P apps, but I somehow get the feeling thats not exactly where they're looking yet. I know that giFT provides at least a small amount of protection because it sets up a virtual http proxy server on your computer that it routes all the traffic through. I was able to successfully download through the blocked ports on my campus network. However, like they say, no system is totally secure. I'd like to think I'm a little better off than your average PC user though.

dynamicd

Jul 25, 2003, 12:00 AM

You should be ok if you download music/apps and don't share anything. They're basically going after people that have gigs of pirated stuff.

MrMacMan

Jul 25, 2003, 12:01 AM

Look besides that the RIAA only have 'access' to sue in certain areas:
Mostly Colleges
Verizon DSL users... etc.

The ONLY way they are going to get you right now is if you share 10 GB of songs, they are frying the big fish first.

If you want to make '100% sure' they will not get you don't share anything, but then I will call you a leech.

How can they possibly go after you if you have nothing to download off of you?
How are they to know that you are downloading anything at all?

Your mom is going a little far, but if she will buy the albums, hell yes, I would take that deal.

On the legal, but extremly costly side.

MrMacMan

Jul 25, 2003, 12:09 AM

Originally posted by tpjunkie
I know that giFT provides at least a small amount of protection because it sets up a virtual http proxy server on your computer that it routes all the traffic through. I was able to successfully download through the blocked ports on my campus network. However, like they say, no system is totally secure. I'd like to think I'm a little better off than your average PC user though.
I think KaZaA is being attacked directly right now, not eally OpenFT because of some reasons:
Its insanely small network.
A new 'feature' if you try to see what files the user has sharing, you can't it comes up with '0' or quits the daemon all together.

And currently I have seen 0 Users from Gnutella or FastTrack trying to download my test files, OpenFT people have, but I doubt these plugins to get access to each network allow you to be almost a shadow client like Neo was supposto be.

tazo

Jul 25, 2003, 01:12 AM

Originally posted by scem0
My mom is banning me from downloading songs.

She thinks the risk is too great, and that the RIAA and other authorities are about to come crashing down on people all over the country who are downloading music off P2P networks.

Is my mom just paranoid or does she really have a point?

scem0

just remove your files from your downloadable folder. problem solved. and odnt download too many files at once.

krossfyter

Jul 25, 2003, 03:31 AM

its all about the benjamins man. ever since the record companies started loosing money they (riaa) started riding our jocks about this *****. why? because the record companies who reap most of the profit from albums arent getting what the used to get so the riaa had to step in and try and solve this problem the only way they have power too. instead of thinking of something creative so the record companies could still reap profits they went with the low blow and started creating these barriers in downloading music. i see their point but hell man why must one be arrested for downloading music? this is one thing i agree with micheal jackson on unbelievably so. big brother goes up another level.

krossfyter

Jul 25, 2003, 03:34 AM

Originally posted by tazo
just remove your files from your downloadable folder. problem solved. and odnt download too many files at once.

they can still trace you if they wanted to from who you are downloading from.

britboy

Jul 25, 2003, 05:13 AM

Originally posted by scem0
Is my mom just paranoid or does she really have a point?

scem0

As with any illegal activity, there is always a risk. If you (or perhaps your mother) are getting worried about the RIAA coming knocking on the door, I would suggest you either stop using illegal P2P, or move to mexico where you can continue unnaffected ;)

scem0

Jul 25, 2003, 07:09 AM

I heard that they made ISP's tell which users were using the most bandwidth.

I question the legality (is that a word) of this... How can they have the right to get info on whats on my computer without my permission? Isn't this a breach of privacy?

So just having the songs in a folder thats not being shared by my P2P program will keep anyone from knowing I've downloaded songs?

scem0

ewinemiller

Jul 25, 2003, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by scem0
I question the legality (is that a word) of this... How can they have the right to get info on whats on my computer without my permission? Isn't this a breach of privacy?

scem0

How you can you steal the music without their permission, isn't that a breach of copyright? Come on don't try and take a moral high ground here when the topic of discussion is the risk of you downloading a ton of pirated music. What you are doing is illegal, somehow you believe you are entitled to the benefits of someone else's hard work without compensating them. Chances are you probably won't be caught, but you don't know how far they will go, a year ago no one expect them to go after users. Now it's the big fish, but they may start working down the food chain and you could be next. Your illegal actions could have consequences that threaten your future and your family, time to grow up.

robbieduncan

Jul 25, 2003, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by scem0
I heard that they made ISP's tell which users were using the most bandwidth.

I question the legality (is that a word) of this... How can they have the right to get info on whats on my computer without my permission? Isn't this a breach of privacy?

So just having the songs in a folder thats not being shared by my P2P program will keep anyone from knowing I've downloaded songs?

scem0

Lets replace your music files with child pornography (only as an example). Would you not support the ability of the police to obtain a warrent which would allow them to take your computer and search for the files that they have reason to believe are there. If they find said files would you not support their ability to prosecute you for the crime.

Now whilst copyright works which you have illegally obtained are not nearly as serious as child porn the workings of the legal process are the same. The same abilities are there and may be used.

Kwyjibo

Jul 25, 2003, 09:14 AM

scem0 you live in texas right? Perhaps its time to move to Mexico ...

I'm not worried about downloading one song or two at home but next year at college it may be tough

sketchy

Jul 25, 2003, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by scem0

I question the legality (is that a word) of this... How can they have the right to get info on whats on my computer without my permission? Isn't this a breach of privacy?
scem0

Research the new laws -- the DMCA and other "Cyber Crime/Cyber Terrorism" laws give the Govt much freedom in how they can prosecute people who steal music. It is stealing..

They have been debating a few laws that would allow legal malicious attacks on computers. If you have any illegal files(mp3, video, application, etc) they could trash your hard drive remotely and destroy all of your files. It is similar to ...could not come up with anything

The DMCA is open to refining, which the RIAA is jumping all over, they are pumping a lot of money into washington, so are the movie studios.

In a few months to a year I think "attack" on music pirates will hit a feavered pitch. Viruses custom coded for windows media player to destroy registry files, etc.

dave

anonymous161

Jul 25, 2003, 10:05 AM

I fail to understand how anyone who says they "love" music could think that stealing from musicians is ok. The biggest arguments I hear from people are "well musicians are rich" and "I just sample the music, I still go out and buy the CD if I like enough songs". First, the majority of downloads that people steal are from new or fringe bands, bands that aren't rich yet and in fact most of the time are in alot of debt to the record companies. So if a new band can't sell enough music, then the record company will drop them, even though there may be 10 million people who have songs by that band on their hard drives. Second, that people "sample" and then buy is a load of horse ****. What if you only like 4 songs on that album? Then you don't buy the album because its not worth 15 bucks but your still keep the 4 songs and listen to them regularly. Yeah, that sounds fair. The bottom line is you wouldn't go to a store, pick up 50 CDs and walk out without paying. Even if you tried, you wouldn't honestly expect to not be arrested.

iJon

Jul 25, 2003, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by anonymous161
I fail to understand how anyone who says they "love" music could think that stealing from musicians is ok. The biggest arguments I hear from people are "well musicians are rich" and "I just sample the music, I still go out and buy the CD if I like enough songs". First, the majority of downloads that people steal are from new or fringe bands, bands that aren't rich yet and in fact most of the time are in alot of debt to the record companies. So if a new band can't sell enough music, then the record company will drop them, even though there may be 10 million people who have songs by that band on their hard drives. Second, that people "sample" and then buy is a load of horse ****. What if you only like 4 songs on that album? Then you don't buy the album because its not worth 15 bucks but your still keep the 4 songs and listen to them regularly. Yeah, that sounds fair. The bottom line is you wouldn't go to a store, pick up 50 CDs and walk out without paying. Even if you tried, you wouldn't honestly expect to not be arrested.
nope, thats why its happeneing. downloading music is turning into running a stop sign. its ok if you dont get caught. i think this is why i like the itunes music store so much. they have cheap prices and its instant so i dont mind paying the money. i dont feel like getting in the car and driving to best buy or somewhere to buy a cd, becuase i hate best buy and everyone who works there drives me up the walls. plus on the itms i dont pay tax.

iJon

tpjunkie

Jul 25, 2003, 10:27 AM

Anonymous161: I disagree with what you're saying somewhat. The vast majority of music I have downloaded is not from new or struggling bands; neither is the majority of most of the people I know. Downloading music from new bands is often much more difficult, as relatively few people will have said music on their computer. In addition, seeing as I spent the majority of this year as a(n almost) broke college student, I didn't buy a whole lot of CDs. The two I purchased were 40 licks by the rolling stones (I didn't want to waste time trying to download 40 songs of a P2P network) and the other was a CD by a new band, Flashlight Brown. Flashlight Brown had 3 songs available for download off their website; I listened, loved, and went out and bought the CD. As they were a new band, their cost considerably less than that of a band thats "made it," costing me 5 dollars plus shipping and handling. I think that its not the small little bands suffering the most here, as filesharing of their songs gives them a ton of publicity.

P-Worm

Jul 25, 2003, 11:04 AM

I hate the excuse "I'm poor." How does that give you a right to steal something? It especially erks me when people are talking about music. Music is for recreation. There is no need in it. You won't die if you don't have it. I want a G5, but can't afford it, but I'm not going to steal one.

P-Worm

jethroted

Jul 25, 2003, 11:39 AM

You should check out "Kazaa K++", it is said to be able to block the RIAA from seeing all the files you are sharing at once. It actually blocks anyone from seeing your complete listing. It also blocks the RIAA's IP range, so they can't come on at all. I don't know how well all this works, but the good thing about this is that you can still share.

Capt Underpants

Jul 25, 2003, 11:41 AM

How many songs are you sharing? I heard they were only going after people with hundereds of songs.

jelloshotsrule

Jul 25, 2003, 12:22 PM

p-worm makes a good point.. you can afford to get a g5 but you can't afford some cds??? hmmm...

i, for one, have never really gotten into downloading music... initially, the bands i like were never on it... because i like small, indie bands and at least at first, never saw them on there to get... i did download some songs of bands i'd heard of, but never heard.... i loved em, i bought their entire collection... so clearly it's not total BS... sure, most people don't. but i also don't know that most people would buy what they download... in other words, the band's not necessarily losing a sale.

i have downloaded a few songs that are popular and wanted just to hear and laugh at... probably about 5-10 total. it's not right, no, but then again, i'd never have bought the album. i could've just recorded mtv for a half hour and then captured the audio and made an mp3 of it...hah

QCassidy352

Jul 25, 2003, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by robbieduncan
Lets replace your music files with child pornography (only as an example). Would you not support the ability of the police to obtain a warrent which would allow them to take your computer and search for the files that they have reason to believe are there. If they find said files would you not support their ability to prosecute you for the crime.

Now whilst copyright works which you have illegally obtained are not nearly as serious as child porn the workings of the legal process are the same. The same abilities are there and may be used.

The key point here is that the police have to have reason to believe that the files are there. The other point is that you are talking about the police, a legitimate law enforcement group.

The grounds on which the RIAA is checking people's computers does not meet probable cause standards, and even if it did, the RIAA is not a legitimate law enforcement agency!

To those of you inclined to give lectures on the morality of file sharing: SHUT UP. Honestly, no one cares what you think. This thread is *not* about whether it is morally acceptable to share files. If you really want, we can have that debate, but let's do it on a thread for that purpose. If you have something useful to contribute to the discussion about the chances of getting sued, then please do so. Otherwise, please save your self rightous moralizing for a more appropriate venue.

sosumi

Jul 25, 2003, 12:32 PM

What you can't buy, you gotta steal. RIAA should forgive a PC-user, but not a Mac user with an american credit card.

jxyama

Jul 25, 2003, 12:45 PM

if you are worried at all, i'd stop. riaa has already crossed the "you gotta be kidding me" line by issuing (or seriously threatening to) subponeas to not only the sharing individuals but to those responsible for their equipment/internet connection, etc.

i see no reason why they will set up an "artificial" limit - let's no go after those with less than X songs - so anyone sharing illegal copies of copyrighted songs are at risk.

i believe there's no debate it's wrong, morally and lawfully, but that's not the topic of this discussion, right? :D (btw, sosumi, you can buy songs! it's called CDs! [end sarcasm])

[edit]
QCassidy - by the way, as someone who haven't downloaded a single illegal song, i think we (people like me) do have some reasons to preach and repeat our feelings for more than just "self-righteous" reasons. i, for one, blame the sharing people partially for the rising CD prices. whether riaa is right or wrong, i don't care. the point is, some people are getting free songs while i'm paying more and more for being honest and buying cds.
[\edit]

jadariv

Jul 25, 2003, 12:50 PM

In Answer To Scemo question:

1. Downloading music from P2P is illegal (you can sit here all day long and argue about it) but at the end of the day it is still illegal. I here the same arguments about marijuana legalization everyday.

2. Can they track you down. Yes. It's pretty much a proven fact they can.

3. Will your parents be liable if you are caught. Yes.

So should you listen to your mom. Yes. Because it is her and your father's behinds that will get sued or face jail time if you are caught. And just because the RIAA is only going after the big dogs, doesn't mean they won't go after some small fries to show everyone they mean business.

So, wait until you are out on your own and put your own butt on the line. In the meantime, try some of the .99 songs on the music store and borrow your friends cd's like everyone has done since the audio tape was introduced in the sixties.

ewinemiller

Jul 25, 2003, 12:54 PM

There is an old saying that "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime." Since these are civil cases, there won't be any time involved except what you lose going to court, talking to a lawyer, etc., but if you lose you may be out a significant amount of cash.

I say if you are comfortable with the risk of you and your family getting sued for everything you have ever saved or having yours or your mother's wages docked for years to pay off a judgment, go for it! Steal as much music as you can! If you have any consideration for your future or you mother since it looks like they are targeting the parents now too, you should probably stop.

iJon

Jul 25, 2003, 01:03 PM

i agree. respect your mother and stop. the day they started my dad told me stop downloading music. i knew i really didnt have anything to worry about but i respected him and stopped for the time being. ive downloaded some music but its all been from bittorrent, and as far as i know they arent going after it at the time, nor can they trace it. unless they make a fake torrent, but still i dont know if they can obsever who all is downloading a torrent.

iJon

alia

Jul 25, 2003, 01:07 PM

Definitely stop. It's your mom's house and she has everything to lose.

On that note, if you're really a tight wad, you should consider http://www.half.com.

I've gotten full CDs there starting at $.49! This week alone I got two CDs... one for $2 and one for $4.50. The shipping is like $2.30 per CD, but that's still cheaper than the music store and no DRM.

That, or start some grass roots CD swapping movement with your friends .Oh, wait, you don't have any CDs ;) - better check out half.com!

Alia

MrMacMan

Jul 25, 2003, 01:26 PM

Here we see the 2 Wrongs apparently MAKE a right approach:
Originally posted by ewinemiller
How you can you steal the music without their permission, isn't that a breach of copyright?
How can you steal the music without your permission, wait wait wait wait wait.
Stealing is illegal, without the permission is like saying 'No P2P apps suck. = P2P Apps don't suck. = All P2P apps are good.'
Is stealing against the law -- yes
Is stealing music without permission against the law -- yeah, because how can you STEAL if you have their permission?

Come on don't try and take a moral high ground here when the topic of discussion is the risk of you downloading a ton of pirated music.
I didn't read that Scem0 was downloading a ton of stuff, I hear that his mom didn't want him downloading anymore.

What you are doing is illegal, somehow you believe you are entitled to the benefits of someone else's hard work without compensating them.
Maybe he is, how are you to know? Maybe there is a trade? Ever think of that?

Chances are you probably won't be caught, but you don't know how far they will go, a year ago no one expect them to go after users. Now it's the big fish, but they may start working down the food chain and you could be next.
So, everyone could be next, my sister could be charged for illegal downloading and her computer isn't connected to the internet.

How is this going to help them?

Your illegal actions could have consequences that threaten your future and your family, time to grow up.
Um... the RIAA isn't the FBI/CIA they aren't gonna come in shooting because you downloaded stuff, they are gonna sue you, and maybe if your parents knew your parents, but probably not your parents because how can you not only blame the person who downloaded the stuff, but the people who didn't know??

Originally posted by robbieduncan
Lets replace your music files with child pornography (only as an example). Would you not support the ability of the police to obtain a warrent which would allow them to take your computer and search for the files that they have reason to believe are there. If they find said files would you not support their ability to prosecute you for the crime.

Here is a did you know:

Did you know the RIAA isn't the government?

Did you know that they have no legal right to search your computer?

Did you know that police have to have hard evidence before they ever get to your computer, the POLICE, and THEN they need a warrent.

They are charging them in lawsuits and then hoping to get access to my computer, yeah hell no.

Unless I'm being brought up on criminal charges they aren't going to get access to my computers LEGALLY, they will be doing it ILLEGALLY.

Now whilst copyright works which you have illegally obtained are not nearly as serious as child porn the workings of the legal process are the same. The same abilities are there and may be used.
Um, last time I checked the police and FBI went after Child pr0n users while the RIAA is going after Music sharers.

Big-o-Difference.

iJon -- BitTorrent, the MPAA is taking BitTorrent head on, hitting the major sites with DOS attacks. Denial of Service.

If the place where your getting a file has a thing called a 'tracker' that is public the MPAA could track you, it would take time, alot of time to do this, you would need to be on the same torrent for hours, maybe days.

I would contact the BitTorrent webmaster of the site if he has a Tracker running atleast block the last 3 Digits of the IP, harder to track.

billyboy

Jul 25, 2003, 01:28 PM

Up to the age of 16 it is amazing how stupid one´s parents appear to be. By the age of 19 though it is incredible how they seem to become so much more switched on in that short time.

The law is probably an ass and is open to interpretation around the edges, but I´d say listen to your mum. Maybe she doesnt know the full story about the powers of the authorities to remotely zap your pirate music-filled hard drive and who knows how many will be targetted to be dragged off to prison for a different form of stealing, but pirating is illegal at the moment.

It might be boring and appear paranoid of her to demand that under her roof you desist from breaking a current law of your land. However, her values have enabled her to bring you up as a person who now seems to have enough awareness to at least question if you are doing wrong.

I´d trust in her rather than maybe 7 million souls out there right this second on Kazaa who either dont even have the concept of right and wrong, or think they are somehow the chosen ones to break a law they don´t like. And only a really big fool risks a run-in with the law over a petty crime. If you want to go down, go down big and with loads of money stashed away. So unless you are going to open up all your ports and go for it multi nationally, give it a miss for the time being.

I will now don my flame retardant suit in readiness for an attack on my sanctimonious point of view :)

iJon

Jul 25, 2003, 01:31 PM

i know they are hitting bittorrent sites head on, but can they trace you. its such a different way to download, i was never sure, if they can trace you then im stopping.

iJon

jxyama

Jul 25, 2003, 01:35 PM

MrMacman -

don't post just to feed the flame, man.

how are we to know if scem0 is compensating the artists? we don't. but if he was compensating the artists for the songs he download, he wouldn't get those songs from p2p, would he? nor would he be worried about riaa coming after him?

don't dispute for the sake of disputing.

MrMacMan

Jul 25, 2003, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by iJon
i know they are hitting bittorrent sites head on, but can they trace you. its such a different way to download, i was never sure, if they can trace you then im stopping.

iJon
No not really unless your IP is logged directly.

Unless your IP is shown then there are to many connections, too much data flowing too fast for them to trace you.

In what, 3 days the torrent is old news.

Originally posted by jxyama
MrMacman -

don't post just to feed the flame, man.

mod edit: inflamatory remarks will get u banned
I have the same right to post and be here as you do.

I thought my view was in the minority so I posted about it, if you got a problem with my post, ask a mod to handle it.

how are we to know if scem0 is compensating the artists? we don't. but if he was compensating the artists for the songs he download, he wouldn't get those songs from p2p, would he? nor would he be worried about riaa coming after him?

don't dispute for the sake of disputing.
For the sake of disputing... hmm, well thanks for you questions, but I never said he was compensating the artists.

I hope I didn't utter a word about compensation... because I sure didn't mean it then!

billyboy -- I too would go clean if I could afford to.

Again if I was a rich RIAA executive PIRATES ARE EVIL! I can afford to buy every album out right now, why can't they?

They have little perspective that their buisness is being hurt by the frikken economy, not by pirates.

they don't get the 'when economy is bad, people don't get things they Don't NEED'

To the RIAA CD sales should go up, up, and up even during a downturn mainly because they aren't affected.

'oh no, i lost $3 million in stocks, oh well my other millions of dollars should keep me well'

ewinemiller

Jul 25, 2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by MrMacman
Here we see the 2 Wrongs apparently MAKE a right approach:

How can you steal the music without your permission, wait wait wait wait wait.
Stealing is illegal, without the permission is like saying 'No P2P apps suck. = P2P Apps don't suck. = All P2P apps are good.'
Is stealing against the law -- yes
Is stealing music without permission against the law -- yeah, because how can you STEAL if you have their permission?

Yes, I know the logic of sentence wasn't quite right. If you read his previous post I was following the form of his sentence to show how hypocritical it is to be indignant about the legality of them scanning your machine or getting information from your ISP when what you are trying to hide is that you illegally copied some music.

And while I certainly agree that his parents shouldn't be penalized his mistakes, I believe the RIAA is now targeting the parents, so if something happens, they may pay price.

You're right they can't come search your machine without involving the police and making it a criminal case, but the level of proof needed for a civil case is much lower so they may not need to actually search his machine to win a civil trial. Not saying it's wrong or right, just the way it is. A few logs files may be enough to win.

jxyama

Jul 25, 2003, 02:13 PM

from earlier:

quote:
What you are doing is illegal, somehow you believe you are entitled to the benefits of someone else's hard work without compensating them.

-----
Maybe he is, how are you to know? Maybe there is a trade? Ever think of that?

but you DID strongly imply that there is a possibility scem0 was compensating the artists or otherwise the download was obtained with legal "trade."

yes, you do have the priviledge (not a right) to post what you think. i was just commenting on how i felt that you were disputing all the points with not much reasons behind them.

while i disagree with riaa's stance that their sales woes are all due to pirated music, i also disagree with your implication that pirated music is not a problem they should pursue or that riaa executives are stupid, evil people.

i think there's more to this than that... i do not know what your life experiences are alike, but as evil as business executives sometime seem, they are not complete morons - they got to where they are for a reason and they probably have much more complicated issues to deal with than the outsiders would know.

anonymous161

Jul 25, 2003, 02:15 PM

QCassidy352, I apologize for my self-righteous post. I failed to realize that this was a forum for the facilitation of an illegal activity that is gaining alot of attention not only in the media but in Congress, where legislation has recently been proposed to focus on the prosecution of electronic piracy in criminal court, not just civil, with the proposal of fines in excess of $100,000 per instance of piracy and/or jail time. Maybe we all should spend more time thinking about the fact that it is wrong instead of how to get around it. But, I know, this isn't the forum for that. I apologize. I should say go ahead, disobey your parents (the ones who will actually get sued or fined) and pirate away, it will years before they actually sue people will just a "few" songs. While we're at it, kid, where do you live, I am sure there is a convenience store near your house we can rob, I will drive the get away car. Is that what I should say??

sketchy

Jul 25, 2003, 03:12 PM

The whole gist of the RIAA is that they are going to sue people.

at 150,000 a song, the fines are enormous, this is part of the scare tactic they are using. Can you or your family afford to pay for 10 illegally shared songs?

The applications that are being distributed to mask your IP addresses will only work for a short time. The RIAA has a slew of Xhackers working for them.

They can see you on the P2P network and sniff the masked address from there to your ISP. If they find traffic going back and forth they can hop onto it and see where it goes.

If you have any music on your computer that is from a copyprotected CD -- well -- you have also violated the DMCA (federal offense). They do not care how you got it, just that you have it.

And they can bring the Govt in and bring criminal charges up on individuals, but this is not very cost effective. but a few cases would make impressive examples

MrMacMan

Jul 25, 2003, 03:36 PM

Mods edited my posts...

uhmmm...

Eye -- Not cool man, that not even half the energy I put into most of my debating posts.

:confused: <--- Me.

Mr. Anderson

Jul 25, 2003, 03:37 PM

Originally posted by MrMacman
Mods edited my posts...

Eye and I edited it at the same time - I was faster to submit so he wrote over what I said.

The warning stands - you make personal attacks that's it.

D

scem0

Jul 25, 2003, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by P-Worm
I hate the excuse "I'm poor." How does that give you a right to steal something? It especially erks me when people are talking about music. Music is for recreation. There is no need in it. You won't die if you don't have it. I want a G5, but can't afford it, but I'm not going to steal one.

P-Worm

1) never used that excuse, so I don't know why your going off on this tangent.
2)Music is more than a big part of my life, it is a way of life. There is ALWAYS music playing at my house. Everything from Enya to Jimi Hendrix. If I took away computers from your life would you be willing to do something illegal (not something they would put you in prison for years and years for, but a 'small' fine) to be able to use a computer again? Well, I'm just gunna assume your answer will be no, even though I am guessing you would really say yes. You aren't willing to do a 'small' illegal action to get something you love - well I am.
3) Music is more than just 'recreation'.... It is a (let me find what shadowfax wrote in one thread, it was very on the mark):

A life without music is truly a life with a lower standard of living. music is definitely a bonding force and means of communication people should not leave absent in their lives. -shadowfax

Originally posted by jethroted
You should check out "Kazaa K++", it is said to be able to block the RIAA from seeing all the files you are sharing at once. It actually blocks anyone from seeing your complete listing. It also blocks the RIAA's IP range, so they can't come on at all. I don't know how well all this works, but the good thing about this is that you can still share.

I'll check that out, thanks for the idea. :)

scem0

scem0

Jul 25, 2003, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
p-worm makes a good point.. you can afford to get a g5 but you can't afford some cds??? hmmm...

No.

No, I can't.... I am spending every single cent that i have ever earned since I was a little boy on this. I have ALWAYS been a tightwad. This is my life-savings - every single cent I have ever earned....... and it still isn't enough. I will only be able to get it by re-roofing my house this summer :rolleyes:.

Originally posted by Capt Underpants
How many songs are you sharing? I heard they were only going after people with hundereds of songs.

I'm only sharing ~300, but my sister is sharing a ****load - something like ~2,000. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by anonymous161
QCassidy352, I apologize for my self-righteous post. I failed to realize that this was a forum for the facilitation of an illegal activity that is gaining alot of attention not only in the media but in Congress, where legislation has recently been proposed to focus on the prosecution of electronic piracy in criminal court, not just civil, with the proposal of fines in excess of $100,000 per instance of piracy and/or jail time. Maybe we all should spend more time thinking about the fact that it is wrong instead of how to get around it. But, I know, this isn't the forum for that. I apologize. I should say go ahead, disobey your parents (the ones who will actually get sued or fined) and pirate away, it will years before they actually sue people will just a "few" songs. While we're at it, kid, where do you live, I am sure there is a convenience store near your house we can rob, I will drive the get away car. Is that what I should say??

I never said I was gunna disobey my parents.

I will only disobey them if I have a reason to. I don't feel I have a reason to disobey them in this case. I will not download music again till' I have their permission.

scem0

iJon

Jul 25, 2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by scem0
1) never used that excuse, so I don't know why your going off on this tangent.
2)Music is more than a big part of my life, it is a way of life. There is ALWAYS music playing at my house. Everything from Enya to Jimi Hendrix. If I took away computers from your life would you be willing to do something illegal (not something they would put you in prison for years and years for, but a 'small' fine) to be able to use a computer again? Well, I'm just gunna assume your answer will be no, even though I am guessing you would really say yes. You aren't willing to do a 'small' illegal action to get something you love - well I am.
3) Music is more than just 'recreation'.... It is a (let me find what shadowfax wrote in one thread, it was very on the mark):

A life without music is truly a life with a lower standard of living. music is definitely a bonding force and means of communication people should not leave absent in their lives. -shadowfax

I'll check that out, thanks for the idea. :)

scem0
ok i dont want to sound mean, but that is one of the cheeziest things i have ever heard when it comes to music downloading. we all know music is cool and stuff, but its stealing, its just no one cares anymore that it is stealing. but seriously...something you love. all you have to do is go buy it, not that hard. just because someone loves sex doesnt mean they have to go rape everyone, even if you do love sex.

iJon

scem0

Jul 25, 2003, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by iJon
ok i dont want to sound mean, but that is one of the cheeziest things i have ever heard when it comes to music downloading. we all know music is cool and stuff, but its stealing, its just no one cares anymore that it is stealing. but seriously...something you love. all you have to do is go buy it, not that hard. just because someone loves sex doesnt mean they have to go rape everyone, even if you do love sex.

iJon

Comparing this less-than-stealing to rape is kind of... over the top, don't you think?

It is less than stealing... It is taking, maaaaybe a penny or two from a huge corporation that has billions of dollars, and MAYBE a penny from the artist's pockit who has Millions, if not billions, of dollars.

I am willing to take a couple pennies from a couple millionares (I only download mainstream music) in return for some extra happiness. That may sound immoral to y'all, but I am still willing to do it.

scem0

scem0

Jul 25, 2003, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by ewinemiller
How you can you steal the music without their permission, isn't that a breach of copyright? Come on don't try and take a moral high ground here when the topic of discussion is the risk of you downloading a ton of pirated music. What you are doing is illegal, somehow you believe you are entitled to the benefits of someone else's hard work without compensating them. Chances are you probably won't be caught, but you don't know how far they will go, a year ago no one expect them to go after users. Now it's the big fish, but they may start working down the food chain and you could be next. Your illegal actions could have consequences that threaten your future and your family, time to grow up.

The fact that my illegal actions could hurt my family or myself is pretty much the only reason I'm not downloading music.

Yes, I'm benifiting from someone else's hard work. And the person that gets 99% of the money isnt the person that works hard.

I can live with myself after stealing a little bit of money from huge corperations better than I could live with myself without music.

And to pose another question: What is keeping me from deleting all my songs from my computer when they say something about it. I can use apple's secure delete thing too.

scem0

jadariv

Jul 25, 2003, 05:49 PM

Yes, I'm benifiting from someone else's hard work. And the person that gets 99% of the money isnt the person that works hard.

I can live with myself after stealing a little bit of money from huge corperations better than I could live with myself without music.

I suppose stealing that little bit might not seem like so much. But take that number and times it by all the other users doing the same thing and you have a big dent. Meanwhile, there are a lot of people out of work because of this.

And it's not just bad new records or the economy.

Back catalogs of records have been hit the most in recent years. The sales of these albums have practically gone away in the last 3 years. And this is why the RIAA is taking up arms. Not because newer albums aren't selling what they used to, but because traditional sales that have always been there have faded away.

scem0

Jul 25, 2003, 05:53 PM

I think they should just get used to it...

there will always be illegal trade of music.

I don't think the people would allow for them to take it totally away, because for them to take it totally away would mean no more P2P networks.

scem0

jadariv

Jul 25, 2003, 06:03 PM

I personally know more than a dozen people that lost their jobs in the last year. For most of them, they loved music so much that they went to college and then came out here to california and served coffee and worked in the mail room for years (generally work not intended for college graduates) just so they could work in the music industry. That's real love of music.

Why don't you tell them to get used to it.

billyboy

Jul 25, 2003, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by MrMacman

billyboy -- I too would go clean if I could afford to.

Again if I was a rich RIAA executive PIRATES ARE EVIL! I can afford to buy every album out right now, why can't they?

Like I suggested, Scem should listen to his mum rather than the people not quite in touch with the imperfect way the world works.

It is really not that hard a concept to understand surely. If you are broke and cant afford to go to the mall, you buy second hand or tap into music that is made available for free with the consent of the legal music owners . And if you dont like your legal options you should go without and lobby democratically to try and get things changed. But if you choose not to go straight, at least have the balls not to drag the impressionable doubters along with you just so you feel better and can say, "Well looky here judge everyone´s doing it." They aint and you shouldn´t.

And Scem, please, skimming a few bucks off a billionaire´s stash is OK. Right on, just what your mother would say!!! :rolleyes:

Roll on the RIAA executives and their lawsuits so the misguided tinpot anarchists in the nation can get a better idea of exactly what it is they are doing wrong.

Repent ye now and crank up a legally free cover version of Son of a Preacherman by No Bad Ju Ju.

jadariv

Jul 25, 2003, 06:13 PM

Also, if you like your music free. There is this great device that delivers it 24/7.

I think its called.....THE RADIO.

Ugg

Jul 25, 2003, 07:06 PM

Originally posted by jadariv
Also, if you like your music free. There is this great device that delivers it 24/7.

I think its called.....THE RADIO.

AND it is perfectly legal to record music that is being played on the radio if it is for personal use. It is also perfectly legal to make a recording from a CD that you borrow from the library.

There is software around that allows you to record from radio streams. It may not be as convenient as a P2P but it is there. Yes music is important, no you don't have to buy it in order to enjoy it but at this point in time, P2P music trading is illegal and you would be well-advised to stop.

scem0

Jul 25, 2003, 10:20 PM

can you rent CDs from the library!?!??!

And copy them to your computer?!?!?!?!

what a great idea!!!!!

well, if that is the case then that solves all my problems.

scem0

Phil Of Mac

Jul 25, 2003, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by ewinemiller
I say if you are comfortable with the risk of you and your family getting sued for everything you have ever saved or having yours or your mother's wages docked for years to pay off a judgment, go for it! Steal as much music as you can! If you have any consideration for your future or you mother since it looks like they are targeting the parents now too, you should probably stop.

It is your parents' internet connection, no? They're paying for it, no? They have the right to tell you what to do with THEIR internet connection.

Originally posted by jadariv
I personally know more than a dozen people that lost their jobs in the last year. For most of them, they loved music so much that they went to college and then came out here to california and served coffee and worked in the mail room for years (generally work not intended for college graduates) just so they could work in the music industry. That's real love of music.

Why don't you tell them to get used to it.

Yup--THOSE are the "millionaires" you're stealing "pennies" from.

pseudobrit

Jul 25, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by sosumi
What you can't buy, you gotta steal.

I like rarities and out-of-print singles.

Where else am I going to get them legally and at a reasonable price?

MrMacMan

Jul 25, 2003, 11:19 PM

Originally posted by scem0
can you rent CDs from the library!?!??!

And copy them to your computer?!?!?!?!

what a great idea!!!!!

well, if that is the case then that solves all my problems.

scem0

Yeah my library does that... but I need to request like most of the stuff I want.

So it takes like 4 weeks, I get my stuff, I listen to it, if I like it, I burn it, its cool, but they really don't like explicted stuff.

jbomber

Jul 26, 2003, 05:06 AM

the RIAA is looking for new whipping boys. Napster took the brunt and offered a good distraction for the past couple years, but now the beast needs more blood....

iJon

Jul 26, 2003, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by scem0
Comparing this less-than-stealing to rape is kind of... over the top, don't you think?

It is less than stealing... It is taking, maaaaybe a penny or two from a huge corporation that has billions of dollars, and MAYBE a penny from the artist's pockit who has Millions, if not billions, of dollars.

I am willing to take a couple pennies from a couple millionares (I only download mainstream music) in return for some extra happiness. That may sound immoral to y'all, but I am still willing to do it.

scem0
yes i know rape is not comparable to that, but it was the only thing i could think of at the time, lol. i was just saying becuase you love it doesnt mean you can take it. we all know downloading music is illegal, nad honestly no one here on this site cares that you download. its just the fact when you try to make it seem ok its kind of pathetic. its music, yes we love it, yes we can buy it, and yes we steal it, and yes we dont get caught, so no one cares. and saying your taking a couple of pennies away from a billion dollar corporation is stupid, how do you think they made their money, people stealing their stuff? it kind of reminds me of walmart, they are the biggest company in the world, but yet when they look for stuff they need to buy they go to the lowest bidder, kind of odd for a company with more money than anyone else. just because they are rich now doesnt mean they dont care about money anymore or if its ok to steal from them.

iJon