resume thread number three (or four?)

[jefhatfield]

i used to be an hr person and i helped people privately (several times with macrumors members) and at job fairs spruce up one page hard copy resumes

but now in these newer times, some people have "online" two pagers and that seems to also be ok...i have recently followed that trend and i have my traditional one pager and an online friendly longer resume

so send them in and i can give tips:D

[Doctor Q]

I'm laughing at myself. I misinterpreted your thread title, thinking you were talking about continuing the discussion of thread number 3 (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3). Those troublesome homonyms!

It's nice of you to offer your services to job hunters.

[Roger1]

jefhatfield,
It is really cool that you are willing to do this for people. I know from firsthand experience that a good resume is important in helping a person get a job. Anywho, where do we send our resumes if we want you to check it?

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Roger1
jefhatfield,
It is really cool that you are willing to do this for people. I know from firsthand experience that a good resume is important in helping a person get a job. Anywho, where do we send our resumes if we want you to check it?

some people provide a link, or pr me, and in some cases, some people just make a quick post in this thread, but may change the name, email, phone number, and address at the top of the resume for privacy reasons

ie...

jefhatfield
1 main street
home town, usa
tel 555-5555
jefhatfield at email(dot)whatever isp

yada yada yada...as to protect your own privacy and spammers who may be lurking here

[BaghdadBob]

My resumeé needs less schizophrenia and a couple less forgettable exits. If it weren't for that it would look pretty decent. Plus, due to one bitch of a team leader, I left a job where I could have moved my way from troubleshooter to tech the next year, on a cross-platform 60 unit LAN. Plus I would have gone from 9-month season to year-round. Then she ran off to LA with one of my coworkers (she: 40 with 19 and 20 yr old girls. Him: 19, certified massage therapist.........). Stupid, stupid, stupid! Stupid. So stupid. Argh. Good thing I'm still young, I've done too much stupid stuff.

But I do think that's really cool what you're doing. If my current focus doesn't pan out I may take advantage of it, but I don't think I'll know for another month.

In the meantime I'll be busting my hump in production work...

[Roger1]

Gotcha,

Hopefully mine will be up in a few days.

[eyelikeart]

I sent mine to u sometime early last year. ;)

I need to update mine though. It's been about 4 months since I last did so, and there's been some changes in the content.

It's pretty good to update every 6 months at least.

[wdlove]

My wife is currently looking for a job, so I will encourage her to send you her resume. thank you Jef, that is very kind!

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by wdlove
My wife is currently looking for a job, so I will encourage her to send you her resume. thank you Jef, that is very kind!

thank you

i like to help people with resumes

many otherwise skilled workers botch this piece of paper

for instance, highly skilled and experienced workers should put their skills and work history first, education second

newbies to the work world without experience should put their education first since their lack of work experience is not what you want to call attention to first

if you are in education, put your education first, even if you have a impressive educational work history

if you are in the military, put your education first because all those strange military acronyms are not what you want to start a resume with first

even though the copy center has a lot of different beautiful papers, keep the resume a simple white or off white or cream...and don't use cardboard thick paper or cellophane or foil inserts and embossing

one day, things may change and the paper resume will become a thing of the past and most hiring with be done via email

an electric blue resume or bright green resume may stand out but in the business world this will backfire more often than it will be a hit and actually work

hobbies are nice, but not necessary to put into a resume

[jefhatfield]

most experience, degrees, and professional certifications hold up on a resume for life

but in the case of IT/IS certifications, when they are long retired, it's as if it's not even on the resume at ll and the hr officer and senior managers will not consider that person viably certified

same goes with old computer science degrees...any degree older than five years old is not even seen to exist on a resume so one should keep up with new certifications and/or cs degrees to stay considered a certified techie or a "real" workable college graduate on the resume

this is not fair since the english BA or math BS on the resume will forever tag that person as a degreed person who may eligible as a candidate for management...while the techie certified or cs degreed person's piece of paper gets seen as little more than confederate currency in five years

the only other degree with becomes invisible or worthless is the mba degree in bad economic times...a smart mba builds up his or her reusme with impressive work experience and that may hold them thru slow business times...an mba alone in a recession is not worth anything and may even be laughable

but when times are astonding, every twenty to twenty five years could really bank with an engineering degree couple with an mba...and this would go for a cs degree and an mba...the payoff could be big but the window of great earning power is very, very short...but one can make several year's salary and bonus in one year if one is in the right time and place

dot.com was a great opportunity for a cs/mba...providing that they pulled out before early to mid 2000...which almost nobody did anyway:p

[britboy]

If you don't mind too much Jef, I might just take you up on this offer, and pm you my cv this evening. I last updated it about 4 months ago, but I can always use another opinion.

Thanks in advance for the help :)

[eyelikeart]

I do believe I'm going to make those revisions this week...I may be sending something your way again Jef. ;)

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
same goes with old computer science degrees...any degree older than five years old is not even seen to exist on a resume so one should keep up with new certifications and/or cs degrees to stay considered a certified techie or a "real" workable college graduate on the resumeI can see the reasoning behind this but I was shocked to read it anyway. Although the particular skills a job applicant learned in school might have been eclipsed by newer techniques, I would have thought that a CS degree (not a certificate in a particular area) was evidence that the applicant had a broad understanding of the field and had shown the ability to study, learn, and work at the college level.

Are the "technology of the week" skills of a recent graduate really considered so predominantly that an older degree is not worth listing at all?

[BaghdadBob]

Although I'm no expert I'm going to say that if you keep current your old certification is worth listing just to show that you've been up to this for a while, and didn't just pop into D-Mart and pick up a skill. But I could be wrong. I guess, depending on how often you've been doing it, five years may be too far to go back, most especially for tech.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Doctor Q
I can see the reasoning behind this but I was shocked to read it anyway. Although the particular skills a job applicant learned in school might have been eclipsed by newer techniques, I would have thought that a CS degree (not a certificate in a particular area) was evidence that the applicant had a broad understanding of the field and had shown the ability to study, learn, and work at the college level.

Are the "technology of the week" skills of a recent graduate really considered so predominantly that an older degree is not worth listing at all?

A cs degree from now is better than one from five years ago

a cs degree from five years ago is still better than a high school diploma...but barely

but i would hire a high school graduate with a recent computer related certification over a college graduate with a five year old cs degree

remember, five years is an eternity in the IT/IS world....oh, that is Eternity with a capital "E"

just recently, in human terms or even dog years, windows NT 3.1 was the hottest thing going and MCPs with windows NT 3.1 certs could ask for the moon...not now these days;)

this field is ruthless

let me repeat, this field is rutheless

this field is ruthless

did i mention this field is ruthless;)

[jefhatfield]

..anyway, it's ok to mention an old cs degree on a resume, but put it at the end and don't emphasize it

IT/IS departments are sticklers about having people who are "up to date"

too many cs majors rely on some past laurels they achieved a long time ago...you can do that as a math or english bachelor's degree holder because the field stays the same...but don't dare "stand still" in the IT/IS field

officially i have been around IT/IS for 4 years, but around the fringes in other disciplines for many more years

the CS field has redefined the term "rat race"

[jefhatfield]

zippywinds and britboy

sorry about the PM not working...could be my old laptops or something

so email me at unicorn@mbay.net

[britboy]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
zippywinds and britboy

sorry about the PM not working...could be my old laptops or something

so email me at

Getting inundated are you? This is what happens when you become generous on a public forum ;)

Thanks for the email address. I've sent the cv now. Please, don't be too harsh......

[jefhatfield]

as a state employment department volunteer and as a federal employee hr person, i had to often see many resumes

if i had to give a score to an educational credential from high school diploma to PhD, from one to ten, here is how i would subjectively rate them

GED - 1 point

high school diploma - 2 points

private high school or academy - 3 points

AA/AS degree - 4 points
trade school diploma - 4 points
outdated technology BA/BS degree - 4 points
good entry level technology certification - 4 points

current or non current non technical BA/BS degree - 5 points

current technology degree - 6 points
mid level technology certification - 6 points
military academy grad with bachelor's - 6 points
college grad from excellent world renowned public college - 6 points

any ivy league or baby ivy (including stanford, cal tech, usc, and some others') BA/BS degree - 7 points

master's degree - 7 points

PhD degree - 8 points

high end technology certification like the CCIE - 9 points

CCIE with a four year tech or business degree or higher - 10 points

being a technological genius or amazing salesman, degree or not, - 11 points (the two steves of apple fit this bill, respectively ;) )

bill gates or God - a dozen points

:p

[judith]

While you are so freely handing out great advice, could you address a situation of self-employment over a term of longer than five years?
Say, hypothetically of course, than someone had been purchasing homes, repairing, selling, repeat. Other than sending a copy of one's return, or bank statement to back them up, how would one address this in the best light?
Thanks!

[jefhatfield]

judith,

i have been self employed since 1989 with winter stints in small and large organizations, but not worth mentioning on a resume

the poster mcrain, here at macrumors, is a tax attorney and i think he should be able to give great advice on your issue

i hope this helps

...you can do a search on him or he is often in the political forums;)