More Competition -- from Napster

[MacRumors]

Mercury News (http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/local/6398190.htm) reports that Napster will be resurrected by their new owners -- Roxio.

Roxio is planning on releasing Napster 2.0 by Christmas. The new music service will be legal and have the backing of the five major labels as well as independent labels. Their plan is to launch with 500,000 tracks -- with the bulk of the additional tracks being made up from the indepdendent labels and artists. It is unclear, however, what usage rights will be provided with the songs.

The article notes that they are working on liberalizing usage rights for users -- but no final details are yet available. The new service does intend to provide some added flexibility -- with both subscription based as well as al la carte download services.

With five months until Christmas, however, the digital music landscape could change dramatically. Apple's iTunes for Windows is also due to appear by year's end.

[alset]

Big deal. Apple is already dead in the water.

Dan

[Waluigi]

Roxio is banking on the fact that Napster is a household name. I'm sure a lot of people will check it out, but by first glance will turned off, becuase no matter what they do, it will never be as good as the origional napster, or as iTMS.

Oh yea, that joke in The Italian Job about the 'real napster' was really funny.

--Waluigi

[tizza]

I'm surprised the big labels were prepared to back Napster after their previous "illegal" setup! They must have said all the right things!

[voicegy]

Holy toledo! You youngin's may think this is "about time" and may not even know what a phonograph record is, but to me, at least, I never thought I'd see the "shopping for music" landscape change so dramatically.

Those days of whiling away a few hours at the local Tower Record store flipping through phonograph albums...then seeing those "compact disc" things start to encroach upon the records little by little...then taken over completely, and now this...all just may become a memory someday. I know Tower has been bleeding red ink for a few years now...will brick and mortar venues for music become a thing of the past?

Indeed, with Apple leading the pack (as usual) we're seeing history in the making. Amazing times.

[arn]

well - napster is under new ownership.

Really the name is the only thing the same I think.

I think one big variable that will play a factor is -- will Napter's service require a software download? i think that may be a hurdle.

Much like iTunes for Windows may be a hurdle for people to download - vs.. just go to a website.

arn

[AHDuke99]

Damn, 500,000 songs. the itunes store only had 250,000 when it launched. The name "Napster" will effect the sales of this a lot. Cause it was so popular in the day when that was the only p2p out there.

[tazznb]

I hope Apple comes out on top. I won't make a prediction one way or another.

Something to chew on; The RIAA is pushing all the competition now seeing how successful ITMS is, and EVERYTIME a song is sold (Whether it be ITMS, buymusic.com[they should rename it to leasemusic.com]) you know who gets a cut; The RIAA! (those bastards have Apple to thank for saving their sorry asses).:eek:

[rainman::|:|]

Whew... iMHO... unless Apple ships iTunes by, say, September, and it's really great, and gets a lot of word-of-mouth by dissatisfied buymusic customers... their little foray into music sales may have it's days numbered... The napster name recognition will give it an instant huge advantage...

i'm *really* hoping apple has some tricks up it's sleeve here... i cannot believe they would stick iTMS for mac out there so far ahead of a windows version, just to spur on early competition... It's my theory that they've just given that to draw off their competitors onto a longer timetable, and they'll be releasing iTMS for windows very shortly...

time will tell...

pnw

[Jerry Spoon]

Apple's got to get ITMS for Windows out before the x-mas shopping season. That way it could get some good press to go along with iPod sales.
I think they'll do it and I'm not too worried about this Napster thing.

[Marble]

In the immortal words of ambassador Kosh:

"and so it begins."

[sacrilicious]

Looks like all of these companies launching are going to be able to look at any problems with iTMS and improve on them. Apple was genius for launching first, and making it work, but the trick will be staying alive.

I don't see a software download as a real hassle, by the way; how were people stealing music before?

[fpnc]

IMO, this new Napster effort will probably spell the end to Roxio. The management team at Roxio who thought this one up should probably start counting the days until they're gone and forgotten. Too bad, however, because Roxio's Toast is a pretty nice product. Maybe they'll spin Toast out into a separate company so that it can try to survive on its own.

As far as the 500,000 songs with all the major labels and independents, I'll believe it when I see it.

[sacrilicious]

As far as the 500,000 songs with all the major labels and independents, I'll believe it when I see it.

I'd sign on with Napster if I were a record company. As has been mentioned here, Napster 2.0 will have an enormous advantage because the original Napster was so widely used and discussed.

[mislabeledstar]

It's kind of funny to see record labels running along side what used to be their biggest enemy. I know napster is completely different in this state, it's just ironic.

[boobers]

Originally posted by arn
well - napster is under new ownership.

Really the name is the only thing the same I think.

I think one big variable that will play a factor is -- will Napter's service require a software download? i think that may be a hurdle.

Much like iTunes for Windows may be a hurdle for people to download - vs.. just go to a website.

arn

iTunes is one of the best (if not the best!) Mp3 player/library there is. So to download a free Mp3 player/library that your mac buddies are using with a common sense interface..think about how easy the search engine is in itunes..PC users drool over that. The will have that itunes music store in PC's across the world in no time.

'scuse the ramble but i just chatted a PC friend up who loves itunes.
iTunes = incentive

[MhzDoesMatter]

Originally posted by AHDuke99
Damn, 500,000 songs. the itunes store only had 250,000 when it launched.

But how many do they have now. It's not as easy when you're the first. iTunes had 250 mainstream songs at launch. I'm thinking their catalog has grown and they're not including indies yet.

Originally posted by paulwhannel
i'm *really* hoping apple has some tricks up it's sleeve here... i cannot believe they would stick iTMS for mac out there so far ahead of a windows version, just to spur on early competition... It's my theory that they've just given that to draw off their competitors onto a longer timetable, and they'll be releasing iTMS for windows very shortly...

Odds are, Apple the time period between announcing the Mac version and the tentative and unspecific release date had more to do with open ended negotiations with record companies than with any aspects of development. As we can see, of all the coming competition, the only one that's currently more than vaporware is a web based front end to a shoddy business model held together by far to restrictive DRM.

All these other "coming soon" services are probably still in the negotiation phases themselves over the amount of DRM required for a windows product. In fact, the smarter ones are probably waiting for Apple to make the headway in this area and piggyback off of their model much like they've already done with the concept of the iTMS itself. Odds are, Apple won't release the product if it doesn't contain the least amount of imposing DRM possible, and that's what's holding iTMS for WIN back.


Originally posted by fpnc
IMO, this new Napster effort will probably spell the end to Roxio. The management team at Roxio who thought this one up should probably start counting the days until they're gone and forgotten. Too bad, however, because Roxio's Toast is a pretty nice product. Maybe they'll spin Toast out into a separate company so that it can try to survive on its own.

As far as the 500,000 songs with all the major labels and independents, I'll believe it when I see it.

Ok, are you high?

Music store's mean little to nothing to companies like Apple and Microsoft because their income is relatively miniscule compared to that of the main revenue making business activities. But to a company like Roxio, who's main revenue is the sale of software titles, software titles that are the industry standard for music CD mastering I might add, a music store like Napster II possible income is not only comparable to that of your other offerings, but the store itself would be synergistic in it's potential boosting of sales of Roxio's CD mastering products.

iTunes is free so far. On a mac, it only costs 9.99 for the entire process of buying, mixing, and burning. If Son of Napster doesn't include a light burning software, odds are, a large enough amount of people will buy Roxio software to burn CD's with. It's only slightly iPod sales skyrocketing after the iTMS debut.

Napster: The Return only has to be marginally successful amongst these new services to have been a worthwhile endeavor for Roxio. And I'm sure they can procure more than marginal success.

Originally posted by sacrilicious
I'd sign on with Napster if I were a record company. As has been mentioned here, Napster 2.0 will have an enormous advantage because the original Napster was so widely used and discussed.

I'm sure that will be the heaviest issue weighed in the upcoming iTMS vs Napster: Rise of the Machines battle. The press will probably go gaga over the resurrection of the once notorious file stealing service because Napster was a household name.

Apple's advantage? It can be a household name now. If iTMS was only marketed well enough to be today's napster, it would atleast be on equal footing before the showdown takes place.


-Hertz

I'm tired.

[tex210]

when this whole itunes music store thing happened, Apple said they had exclusive for one year right? At least I think that's what i heard. I felt then that the record labels were just using Apple to see if this model could work. When Jobs said they would have a version out by the end on the year, I thought to myself, "Self, those record companies are going to screw Apple like everyone else has. They are going to take this model, tweak it, and run to windows with it, forgetting who helped legalize music D/L's." I hope I'm wrong, but it just seems like it's all too easy for them now. If they have any kind of contract, it's about over. Then what? Apple will end up with one or two major labels, and hopefully a lot of indies. If any record labels leave Apple, they will NEVER see any of my money again. No matter the singer/group/star/act...whatever. Just as I would have bought Madonna's latest if it were there, but will never buy it because it's not.

[arn]

Originally posted by boobers
iTunes is one of the best (if not the best!) Mp3 player/library there is. So to download a free Mp3 player/library that your mac buddies are using with a common sense interface..think about how easy the search engine is in itunes..PC users drool over that. The will have that itunes music store in PC's across the world in no time.


The problem is -- there are a lot of people who are used to their 'digital jukeboxes'.

Also - I'm not clear if iTunes will support Windows Media Files. If not, then any files you've bought off BuyMusic won't play.

arn

[Nermal]

If Napster works internationally, then I'll use it. Unless Apple gets international support first of course.

BTW, I sent off an email to BuyMusic, asking exactly why it was US users only, and how is downloading a song from the US any different from ordering a CD from the US? Their response was a generic "we only support US users". Yeah that's really helpful guys :rolleyes:

[DeusOmnis]

I think Apple needs to get iTMS windows going in the next month or so. There are so many "Music Store" announcements that apple needs to make their footprint now if they want it to be significant.

Unfortunately, I'm sure that Apple needs to show, conclusively, that the downloaded music is not being pirated at all by the people downloading it, and that takes time. Windows iTMS may be poised to go now, but the EXTREMELY greedy recording industry is probably holding a leash on it.

[rinnin]

I have a very strong feeling Apple will launch a worldwide iTMS service in September at MacWorld Paris. I mean how could they show their faces at a non-US MacWorld and promote the iTMS in a country where it's not available yet?! (-then again they could just say "coming soon....")
I'm guessing (hoping) there'll be a global Windoze and Mac version released within this timeframe :D or else Apple will loose out to the competition.
R:(

[tazznb]

They could just outright buy Roxio , and then they'd have it all.

They just better move on it before M$ does.

[Sabenth]

Ok fess up who uses Kazza who uses tracks from kazza or others in i tunes who in there right mind is going to back somthing that has been away for so long. whos getting the best deal out of all this 5 LABELS AND A LOT OF SUITES THATS WHO. 99cent tracks 79cent tracks 1 million hits a month. who the f&^king hell is kidding who. Apple has kicked it off its up to apple to kick everyone down and away from this. I like so many others in the world that is not America no offence guys would like the store globaly if such a thing can happen if not i have an idea that might help.

As for this Riaa comment some one said think you got it right .......

Sabenth

[dermeister]

Originally posted by Sabenth
Ok fess up who uses Kazza who uses tracks from kazza or others in i tunes who in there right mind is going to back somthing that has been away for so long. whos getting the best deal out of all this 5 LABELS AND A LOT OF SUITES THATS WHO. 99cent tracks 79cent tracks 1 million hits a month. who the f&^king hell is kidding who. Apple has kicked it off its up to apple to kick everyone down and away from this. I like so many others in the world that is not America no offence guys would like the store globaly if such a thing can happen if not i have an idea that might help.

As for this Riaa comment some one said think you got it right .......

Sabenth

English please, lol.

[joemama]

I'm sure all of this news about competition has put a HUGE fire under Apple. It's just that more important they get the Windoze version done asap.

That could be a good thing to get them moving. I swear if I were Jobs I would have my developers working 24/7 to get iTunes for Windoze done.

Their whole future in the music biz is riding on it.

[pkradd]

This is impossible. Artists have different deals in different countries with different labels at times. There are royalty payment issues, price issues (recordings are more expensive in Europe due to taxes). Pre-1954 recordings are now in the Public Domain in Europe while still copyrighted in the U.S. which complicates things. What we'll see is a slow roll out, country by country. Next will be Canada. iTunes music store started out with 200,000 songs (which they still advertise) not 250,000. Apple has a deal with the 5 major labels for one year. It is not "exclusive". Competition was inevitable. Napster may succeed but BuyMusic will be gone by next year.

[macFanDave]

I seriously doubt that porting iTMS to Windows is a serious challenge for the able programmers. Gates and his ilk have been doing it for years.

It's simple: take a Mac program, slap on an ugly interface, throw in vague and ambiguous warning and error messages and program in some random crashes and freezes and voila! A Windows program!

Do any of you realize how much more liberal the terms are with iTMS than any of the competitors? Even so, only Americans have access. I'll bet that Jobs' difficulties with the record companies are the real hold-up in Apple's world domination of the online music realm!

[Wash!!]

Originally posted by Marble
In the immortal words of ambassador Kosh:

"and so it begins."

Great reference:D

[e-coli]

I don't see why we're all hot and bothered about apple's windoze offerings. Why do we care? And why do we care what crappy alternatives with tighter DRM is available on the Windows platform? We already have the best music shopping solution available.

I feel lucky, not "scared".

[rjwill246]

One thing that seems to get lost in the discussion of Apple's seeming "failure" to support customers outside the US, is the issue of 'rights.' It was brought up a few comments back and what was said was correct. Apple has no ability to release this product to other countries until there are specific localized contracts in place. It is, however, true that one can buy CDs from the US, or, when visiting the US and take them home, thus making the argument for not being able to download the songs overseas extemely weak. It would seem that the sheer volume of downloads would vastly exceed the numbers of physical discs leaving the US and so the record companies have basically turned a blind eye to this. But is does show how absolutely dinosaur-like the RIAA and the recording companies are. Apple has offered them one (tremendous) solution to the problem of piracy and instead of really embracing it by supporting Apple's efforts wholeheartedly, they have given Apple "competition" that, I assume, they think is 'good' for the industry when in fact the dreadful implimentation of iTMS rip-offs may hurt the industry and Apple, if people's experience is soured by these other on-line music stores.
In any case, to the folks NOT in the US... you'll have to hang on there... but don't blame Apple! They are clearly having battles getting licensing deals going, so if you want to vent your anger, write your local recording companies and urge them to sign up with Apple– stat!

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by arn
The problem is -- there are a lot of people who are used to their 'digital jukeboxes'.

Also - I'm not clear if iTunes will support Windows Media Files. If not, then any files you've bought off BuyMusic won't play.

arn

I think iTunes for Windows will do more good than harm. Lots of windows users I run into want iTunes.


Lethal

[spice weasel]

Originally posted by arn
well - napster is under new ownership.

I think one big variable that will play a factor is -- will Napter's service require a software download? i think that may be a hurdle.

Much like iTunes for Windows may be a hurdle for people to download - vs.. just go to a website.

arn

I don't think having to download software is a big deal. Like others have said, thousands have already downloaded P2P clients already. Getting music from BuyMusic.com just means you have to import the song into WMP. That means running two applications to download and then play your music. With iTunes, you can buy your music and put it in your library at the same time, using only one app. Much better, I think.

The two big issues with a new Napster are how well the site/software works, and how liberal the DRMs are. Music buyers are starting (hell, they have been for a while) to get pissed off at the recording industry for seemingly not bending with the times, and for getting in the way of users trying to do with their music what they like. BuyMusic.com has two (at least) HUGE strikes against it because a) it requires you to use only M$ products (Explorer and WMP), and b) because the DRMs are horrible. In my opinion, anyone who wants to compete with Apple is going to have to start thinking like Apple -- creating a user-friendly and well-integrated and thought out way to buy and download music. That means Apple already has a leg up. In addition, any music store for the Windows crowd is likely to run into the problem of being forced by the record labels to use WMP because it is a "good" way (for the RIAA) to wrap the music and thus heavily restrict what users can do with it. That's not a problem for Apple (or at least hasn't been with the Mac version of iTMS).

Now let's go Apple -- get out the Windows version of iTunes! And while you're at it, release the new PowerBooks.

[MacFan25]

I think that once Windows users see how easy to use iTMS is, they won't want to use another program.

I hope that Apple gets some more artists to sign on by then too.

[iPC]

iTMS was just a ruse to keep us happy for a while... Apple buying time for the "year of the laptop" debacle...

I really don't care about iTMS vs buymusic.com vs Napster vs WalMart and so on... Apple was first, and they will probably be overrun in the end, just like with everything else :(

[elo]

Don't you guys understand that iTMS for Windows is probably done and sitting on a shelf somewhere in Cupertino? This isn't about finishing a program, it isn't about "lighting a fire" under Apple (which is no doubt painfully aware of what's going on) - it is simply a matter of waiting until the negotiations and legal work are finished. This is especially true outside the US, where the laws are different for *each* country (requiring the lawyers essentially to start from scratch).


The record companies hold all the cards, and they are no more interested in seeing Apple's model work than they would be interested in seeing success from a model with more restrictions. For them, fanning the flames of competition just makes sense.

elo

[macnews]

buycrap.com - not a threat. The former Napster with 500K songs - possible threat.

Does anyone know how many songs are at iTMS? Since the Apple store opened with 200k songs I would think they would be at 250k (at least) by now if not 300k. I know they added many songs after the first few weeks and then have been adding songs every week. I think the weeky songs added have been around 20-50 (again, at least it seam likes). It appears to me the number of songs could equate to the mhz myth on the computer side. "Oh Jonny, I use Napster because they have 500,000 songs." "I know Suzie, the iTMS might only have 200,000 songs but the interface and DRM is just so much better!"

Please Steve, release some new numbers before crap like this happens! Remove it from the equation as an excuse!

[iEric]

ugh its really getting me mad that everyone is copying Apple. But I guess thats how the world goes around and around...GRRR

[jeremy.king]

Isn't bringing new players into the music download world a good thing?

I would think that the competition would help drive down the $.99 pricing. If Im trying to get new customers, Im not going to rely on my name, I would price my music to sell. Or invent other gimicks (e.g Buy one get one free kinda crap). Seems this may be a good thing.

like iEric, I hate it when other companies copy Apple though...

Just my $.02

JK

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by macnews
I know they added many songs after the first few weeks and then have been adding songs every week. I think the weeky songs added have been around 20-50 (again, at least it seam likes).

You can see what's been added from week to week by clicking the "Just Added" link in the left column of iTMS front page. They're adding a lot more than 20-50 songs per week. Last week, it looks like they added songs from well over 200 albums (I got tired of counting).

[bertagert]

You guys and your itune worries. Lets put this into context.

Who are the players in the online music biz?

Apple, Buy Music, Real and one other that I can't remeber. Out of these, which ones use the same format? Buy Music, Real and the other one. They use Microsoft's software. In all reality, they're all the same thing. None are better then the other. Its all the same just with a diiferent spin on advertising.

Even if new ones come along (Napster 2.0), they'll more than likely use MS's DRM. This is a problem because of the subscription that people will have to sign up for. MS is banking on subscriptions. I personally feel it will never work.

Apple on the other hand uses AAC(MP4). This allows freedom for downloading with ownership and no subscription.

The service that i can't name above, has failed. Its backed by all the major labels but still isn't a good service. Its uses MS's DRM. With all these new companies using the same technology, why do you think they'll magically make it?

Half of you guys are predicting the end of apple music when they don't even have competition. No other company offers what Apple does. They're on their own. No one even comes close.

The only way Apple Music won't make it, is for companies of mp3 players to NOT support AAC. Not everyone will be toting a ipod.

Come back in a year and see who's still standing. I bet it will be Apple and Microsoft. BuyMusic and Real won't be in the game. Since we haven't heard what format Napster is using, we can't rule them in or out. If Napster uses AAC, then the battle will be Apple vers. Napster.

Quote me...and come back in a year.

[P-Worm]

I don't know why everyone is whining as soon as competition comes up. To me, the iTMS is not about getting Apple money (Although it is nice), it's about the digital music revolution. It's about having music easily accesable at a fair price. It's about (in the future) indies finally being able to get the recognition that they deserve.

In my opinion, if Apple doesn't come out on top, that's ok because computer users as a whole will have something much better than what we had before Apple came around.

P-Worm

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by e-coli
I don't see why we're all hot and bothered about apple's windoze offerings. Why do we care? And why do we care what crappy alternatives with tighter DRM is available on the Windows platform? We already have the best music shopping solution available.

I feel lucky, not "scared".


Simple. I highly doubt the number of Mac users out there is enough to keep iTMS afloat in the long run. Or if nothing else may keep record labels from having much if any interest in it. As much as any Mac user hates to have to admit it Apple NEEDS WINDOWS. It’s that whole 98% of the computer market thing. If Napster or some other company gets the right formula for a WINDOWS music store and gets a solid foothold in that market before Apple does they can kiss their music store goodbye. Don't kid yourself. Just because the first offering of a music store on the WINDOWS platform has overly restrictive DRM doesn't mean they all will. Someone will eventually get the right mix and make a formidable competitor to Apple.

The other question I have for Apple's iTMS offering for WINDOWS is if they are going to support other devices other then the iPod. If not then they just killed a potential group of customers. Heck I'm not sure who actually supports AAC other then the iPod and Sony I think. They better support on the fly music conversion (WMA? :eek: What other DRM file type is there?!!?) otherwise other then iPod users no one is going to bother.

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by Macrumors

The article notes that they are working on liberalizing usage rights for users -- but no final details are yet available. The new service does intend to provide some added flexibility -- with both subscription based as well as al la carte download services.


"added flexability"

That means you may not have to buy a separate copy of the song for every PC you own. But you still will probably have to pay for more than three burns.

Really, none of these services are going to make it as long as they try to enforce Rapsody-like restrictions on the tracks. The RIAA has to learn they have to treat the music with about the same freedom they do normal CDs to get consumers to take it seriously.

It occured to me the other day, maybe we shouldn't be sending all these emails to buymusic.com telling them how they ********* up their service. They may listen to us and improve it. Better to just let them blunder and die.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by SeaFox


It occured to me the other day, maybe we shouldn't be sending all these emails to buymusic.com telling them how they ********* up their service. They may listen to us and improve it. Better to just let them blunder and die.

The only thing they're likely to listen to is the bottom line. If they're selling tons of songs, I don't think there will be a lot of improvements. If they're selling less songs than Apple, they'll have to make some changes. But unless they can change the DRM and pricing, I don't think it will make much difference.

Have there been any press releases about how many songs BuyMusic has sold? You'd think if it was successful they'd be advertising "The No. 1 music site on the planet" or something like that.

[bertagert]

Can any of you get to www.buymusic.com? I've been trying for days on both mac and pc and can not get the site.

[simX]

Originally posted by Marble
In the immortal words of ambassador Kosh:

"and so it begins."

Pff, get your sources right. Ambassador Kosh didn't say that, it was the Captain in The Simpsons! ;)

Anyway, I thought I'd point out one thing. People have been complaining about BuyMusic.com and how it forces you to use WMP and Explorer, which are Microsoft-made products. [NOTE: This does not constitute an endorsement of BuyMusic.com. My opinion of BuyMusic.com can be summed up in two words: "It sucks."]

But doesn't Apple do the same thing?... they force you to use iTunes. Many other music players haven't yet been upgraded to support AAC audio, either, so to even PLAY your music you often have to use iTunes. Probably more concerning is the fact that (I believe) this also forces you to use an iPod as your portable music player; as far as I know, the iPod is the only music player on the market to support AAC audio. Yes, you COULD burn your music to CD, rerip it in MP3 format, and then use another music player, but that is hardly convenient.

Now, granted, this isn't that big of a deal because iTunes rocks, has a great interface, it rocks, it has great features, it rocks, etc., etc., etc. Yes, I use iTunes all the time. :) The iPod also rocks, has a great interface, it rocks, it has great features, it rocks, etc., etc., etc (hee, I used the same line as I did for iTunes! :) ). Yes, I also use my iPod all the time. But that doesn't change the reality that Apple forces you to use iTunes to at least download your music, if not play it as well, and Apple forces you to use the iPod to play the music on the go.

Just a thought to consider.

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by macnews
buycrap.com - not a threat. The former Napster with 500K songs - possible threat.

Does anyone know how many songs are at iTMS? Since the Apple store opened with 200k songs I would think they would be at 250k (at least) by now if not 300k. I know they added many songs after the first few weeks and then have been adding songs every week. I think the weeky songs added have been around 20-50 (again, at least it seam likes). It appears to me the number of songs could equate to the mhz myth on the computer side. "Oh Jonny, I use Napster because they have 500,000 songs." "I know Suzie, the iTMS might only have 200,000 songs but the interface and DRM is just so much better!"

Please Steve, release some new numbers before crap like this happens! Remove it from the equation as an excuse!

Clever observation. Apple probably doesn't want to be in that position. As great as it is to be revered by a few as the better service, they need to be selling lots.

[fpnc]

As far as the Napster brandname being an asset, I just don't believe it. In fact, it could turn out to be a liability if people who are familiar with Napster go to the service expecting a "deal" and find that it is no better (and possibly worse) than other services.

In one way or another Microsoft will dominate the on-line music distribution business. WMA and __not__ AAC will become the standard delivery method. In a few years we'll have Microsoft controlling the vast majority of the market, Apple will have maybe five or ten percent, Napster will be gone (a money pit for Roxio), and the major music labels will begin their own direct, on-line music sales. Eventually, I suspect that the middle men will be eliminated and we'll buy our music either directly from the major labels __or__ directly from the artists themselves. Either way, Microsoft wins because they will control WMA and this will just serve to reinforce their domination over the world of computing devices.

[jaedreth]

The bad guys don't always win.

Sure, a lot of people are going to go for wma because they don't know there is a choice besides Microsoft.

However, the iPod is gaining in popularity. It is the best out there. Just like iTunes is the best, and iTMS is the best.

Quicktime for Windows and iT for Windows will start making a major play against the wma format, because people will be able to see a quality difference. People who have macs and pcs will want and expect the same great quality on their pcs as on their macs. They will convert their pcs friends to using iTMS and iTfW, and the iPod.

Apple is still poised to revolutionize the Windows platform as well, because *still* it is the only one to offer *ownership* and the 5 major labels. Also, MP4 technology in the AAC format *is* superior encoding to MP3, thus from same quality source, the AAC sounds noticably clearer.

Apple is not going to play the "We've got more songs than you" game just to have higher numbers. Apple will wait until it is able to deliver on a vastly higher number, then announce. And it will be correct, not made up or make believe.

Apple has the best technology and quality on all fronts, and the only reason people will stay with any other option, is that they don't know what options are out there. Those that compare the services will find the best deals and service with Apple.

Jaedreth

[billyboy]

Not being funny, but anyone can announce they are going to launch a Music Store with more records and better prices than the last company on the musical bandwagon of announcements.

But being realistic, apart from MS, arent Apple the financial heavyweights in the current "race" to capture the Windows world´s music hearts? And arent their developers and product managers the most switched on - if the interface and the music industry deals they are aiming for are anything to go by? And havent they been hard at it for 18 months already?

Having read what Bumble buy.com are pewking out to the world, I just dont see that anyone can just hustle in within a few weeks and not risk being completely humiliated. The real contenders with less financial muscle than Apple but a realistic view to the future will have to put in a lot of work to get things even half right, and that takes time too.

Obviously the MS bandwagon is humiliation proof to a certain degree, but even with his billions, will Gatesy care to blow Apple out the water with an avalanche of marketing ****e to promote his version- iStoleiTunesMusic StoreandruinediT

[bigjohn]

Originally posted by arn
well - napster is under new ownership.

Really the name is the only thing the same I think.


While down in Hollywood this past Friday to see an awesome band at the Troubadour, we were parking the car and across the street, emblazoned on an office building was the Napster logo. Roundabout the corner of Santa Monica and Doheny if anyone's the area...

[dynamicd]

I don't know if anybody has noticed, but if you go to the ITMS and go to the just added section, check out how many albums were added for this past week compared to the other weeks. There's a s%$# load of albums that were added this past week.

[rjwill246]

Reported today in USA today about BuyMusic.com. This is so funny.
Poetic justice at its best!

Quote:
Early customers have found they can't transfer the tunes they buy on BuyMusic.com to digital portables.


"It's unfortunate they had this glitch," says Creative's Craig McHugh, adding that many customers have been calling seeking help. "We've been really excited about BuyMusic and its potential."
BuyMusic.com's tech support staff was of little help when contacted Thursday. An e-mail response read: "We are unable to provide technical assistance after you have downloaded the music ... to your primary computer. In addition, we are unable to credit you back for failed or damaged copies once you have successfully downloaded the music."
Apple has sold 6.5 million songs since April; BuyMusic won't release figures, but "it's not millions," Blum says. End quote.

it's probably not hundreds!
If only Apple had the Wintel version ready to go!

[rojazz]

Originally posted by bigjohn
While down in Hollywood this past Friday to see an awesome band at the Troubadour, we were parking the car and across the street, emblazoned on an office building was the Napster logo. Roundabout the corner of Santa Monica and Doheny if anyone's the area... I saw that too. I was driving down to Westwood from Hollywood, and made a wrong turn and ended up on that tiny little street near Santa Monica with the Napster logo on the side. Very strange, indeed.

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by rjwill246
Reported today in USA today about BuyMusic.com. This is so funny.
Poetic justice at its best!

Here's the link... for the curious but lazy :p

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2003-07-28-buymusic_x.htm

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by tazznb
I hope Apple comes out on top. I won't make a prediction one way or another.

Something to chew on; The RIAA is pushing all the competition now seeing how successful ITMS is, and EVERYTIME a song is sold (Whether it be ITMS, buymusic.com[they should rename it to leasemusic.com]) you know who gets a cut; The RIAA! (those bastards have Apple to thank for saving their sorry asses).:eek:

Not as much as you may think. After all, Apple just might provide an integrated solution for artists to record music at a high quality and submit it to iTMS, sans record label.

Originally posted by MhzDoesMatter
Napster II...Son of Napster...Napster: The Return...iTMS vs Napster: Rise of the Machines

Was all that really necessary? :)

Originally posted by rinnin
I have a very strong feeling Apple will launch a worldwide iTMS service in September at MacWorld Paris.

Europe? I doubt it. Europe is going to take quite awhile because of oddities between individual national economies, laws, and local laws and contracts regarding music sales and the labels. Not to mention taxes.

Originally posted by bertagert
The only way Apple Music won't make it, is for companies of mp3 players to NOT support AAC. Not everyone will be toting a ipod.

In theory, but it's starting to veer toward everyone toting an iPod :)

Originally posted by simX
But that doesn't change the reality that Apple forces you to use iTunes to at least download your music, if not play it as well, and Apple forces you to use the iPod to play the music on the go.


They don't force you to. If someone else made an AAC player, you could use that. It's not Apple's fault people don't go and compete with them.

[zim]

Originally posted by dynamicd
I don't know if anybody has noticed, but if you go to the ITMS and go to the just added section, check out how many albums were added for this past week compared to the other weeks. There's a s%$# load of albums that were added this past week.

I was just about to post the same. WOW! it just keeps scrolling and scrolling... I think that this week is a record for the most songs added. If apple can keep pulling in this much content every-week, then there is no doubt that by the time anything is released by anyone else they will have to have 500,000 songs. I am also happy to see some stuff that I have been looking for starting to appear in iTMS.

[Phil Of Mac]

I wonder how much of the new additions is indie music. I recognize a lot of the names, but not all of them. So I suppose not that much of it is indie. Good to see new additions though.