Power5+ to hit 3GHz

[MacRumors]

TheRegister.co.uk reveals (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/32232.html) some of IBM's future processor plans.

According to the site, they've gotten their hands on a roadmap for IBM's Power5, Power5+, and Power6 processors. They report that the Power5 will first appear in 2004 at 1.4GHz, scaling to 2.0GHz before being replaced by the Power5+ which should run between 2.0GHz and 3.0GHz.

Improvements noted include memory bandwidth, floating point performance, and simultaneous multithreading.

The Power6 is reported to be due in 2006/2007 and is expected to boast "very large frequency enhancements". Further details available at TheRegister.co.uk (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/32232.html).

The article gives few details on potential processors for Apple, however. Previous rumors have claimed that a 980 processor will be appearing based on the Power5 processor. Before the 980, however, a small revision to the PowerPC 970 is expected (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030728104234.shtml) in mid-2004 and is knowns as the GPUL2.

[mvc]

none of which directly bears on the derivative chips used in the mac - but it does show a will to progress for their own purposes in servers etc, that can only have a good flow on for mac users.

[The Ancients]

After being under a dark cloud of speed oppression for so long, I forget - what do these 'roadmaps' signify...? A dream, a curse of taunts, or....

[Mudbug]

I understand some of the symantics of what's going on here, but 1.4 Ghz doesn't seem like that good of a deal - for some reason I was thinking this would be in the 3 - 4 Ghz range, not back down in Ghz

[mvc]

A roadmap is something you give to people so they can know exactly how lost they actually are.

Bloatorola has been following one for years where all the roads just go in circles.

Happily, we can hopefully soon get off that particular bus :p

[daRAT]

This is good news, if true :)

[Mr.Hey]

if this is true ......Whoo Hoo!
Apple using IBM CPUs was one of the best decision Apple ever made.
:D

edit: whoa that was freaky he said what I said :p

[Mr.Hey]

Originally posted by Mudbug
I understand some of the symantics of what's going on here, but 1.4 Ghz doesn't seem like that good of a deal - for some reason I was thinking this would be in the 3 - 4 Ghz range, not back down in Ghz

no no no

remember these chips are for servers only

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
no no no

remember these chips are for servers only

True, but the POWER4+ runs at 1.7GHz. Perhaps 1.4GHz will be the low end model? Or perhaps they have so many other enhancements that a slight drop in clock frequency is irrelevant?

[Makosuke]

Originally posted by Mudbug
I understand some of the symantics of what's going on here, but 1.4 Ghz doesn't seem like that good of a deal - for some reason I was thinking this would be in the 3 - 4 Ghz range, not back down in Ghz Actually, if the Power5 is as much faster per clock than the Power4/Power4+ (mainly clock difference there, I think) as IBM is saying it will be, that'll be pretty cool.

As it is, the Power4 running around 1.4Ghz is generally faster than Pentium 4 Xenons in the 3 Ghz range, and that's on SPEC benchmarks which tend to favor Intel processors. Keep in mind that high-end Itaniums run half the clock of Xenon/P4 chips, but they're theoretically much faster.

It'll be interesting to see how these things play out--feels good to be onboard with a company that's actually attempting to develop competitive chips, rather than letting a decent architecture languish while they focus on embedded markets.

[MrMacMan]

Well thats good news...

But again the chips that are derived from the 'Power' Series of chips are different in many ways.

If we see the Power5+ hit 3.0 the derivative of that chip will definattly be more then 3 GHZ.

[tizza]

maybe Intel's reign as 'king of the fast chip' is coming to an end and IBM will be stepping up as the new King! One thing is for sure though - Motorola won't be part of the new royal family :mad:

[Catfish_Man]

Originally posted by tizza
maybe Intel's reign as 'king of the fast chip' is coming to an end and IBM will be stepping up as the new King! One thing is for sure though - Motorola won't be part of the new royal family :mad:

Ummmm... IBM has been 'king of the fast chip', and Intel is challenging them with the Itanium series. Perhaps you meant for desktop chips?

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by Catfish_Man
True, but the POWER4+ runs at 1.7GHz. Perhaps 1.4GHz will be the low end model? Or perhaps they have so many other enhancements that a slight drop in clock frequency is irrelevant?

This is more along the lines of what I had in mind... but I think that there will be so many other improvements over the Power4+ that the clock speed really doesn't matter - say a much bigger frontside bus or something - I dunno. After a few big words I don't understand what I'm talking about anymore.

[Abstract]

I'm sorry, but what's a GHz? Being an Apple fan, I'm only used to seeing things in MHz. :p

Um, so anyway, I think that IBM's determination to improve should give a clear indication to Apple to drop Motorola completely. Why keep them around anymore? Its like keeping an old girlfriend around because she's familiar, and you would rather not let go and continue to be emotionally tortured. Or worse yet, it would be like keeping a dead girlfriend around........... :o

[mvc]

Originally posted by tizza
Motorola won't be part of the new royal family :mad:

Oh yes they will, there is always need for a Joker :D

[Chisholm]

Originally posted by mvc
Oh yes they will, there is always need for a Joker :D

Too funny!

I wonder how the whole MHz/GHz thing will be spun in the realm of publicity stuff.

[jaedreth]

Heh, if IBM keeps on innovating, and completely overtakes the PC/PC Makers, you might hear this in a few decades. (Or perhaps sooner...)

What's a THz? I'm a PC User.

*joking*

Jaedreth

[mvc]

Originally posted by jaedreth
Heh, if IBM keeps on innovating, and completely overtakes the PC/PC Makers, you might hear this in a few decades. (Or perhaps sooner...)

What's a THz? I'm a PC User.

*joking*

Jaedreth

Don't joke, I include a quote from this article (http://www.elephantstew.org/modules.php?name=News&new_topic=39) on an upcoming IBM supercomputer:

…ASCII Purple, IBM's first new design, will be able to operate at 100 Teraflop throughput and hold at least two petabytes of memory. Blue Gene/L should be capable of 360 Teraflops when built.

Might not be Terahertz, will Teraflops do?
:D

[eric_n_dfw]

Originally posted by mvc
Might not be Terahertz, will Teraflops do?
:D It certainly does - especially since it directly relates to the output of the machine, not to how fast clock on it can tick.

[jaedreth]

Yeah, TeraFlops are *goood*...

However, when we finally arrive at TeraHertz, imagine...

Petaflops... Exaflops... Hmmmm. :)

Let's see... Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm doing this from memory)...

Bill stated about 20 years ago that 512k memory ought to be enough for anybody... (anyone, exact quote and date?)

So we've jumped from kilo to giga in 20 years, so roughly speaking, we'll jump about every 10 years. (Speaking in Bytes of RAM)

So in 2013, we'll have pcs capable of holding 1-6 petabytes of ram (even if they come standard with 256 GB of RAM), have 20-80 Petabyte hard drives, and they'll run at 1-4 Petahertz.

I'll be 36 then, and far more wealthy than I am now, and I'll enjoy every moment of it...

Just imagine 2023. ;)

Jaedreth

[mvc]

Originally posted by eric_n_dfw
It certainly does - especially since it directly relates to the output of the machine, not to how fast clock on it can tick.

Unfortunately, to achieve this they are running something like 130,000 processors in a massively parallel powersucking behemoth the size of a building.

Or to paraphrase Greg Joswiak "ASCII Purple is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon…" ;)

[mvc]

Originally posted by jaedreth
Bill stated about 20 years ago that 512k memory ought to be enough for anybody... (anyone, exact quote and date?)

Here it is according to Bill. You can see the article here (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/biztech/gatesivu.htm) :


In his office on the Microsoft corporate campus in Redmond, Wash., Bill Gates took a few moments to reflect on the impact of the IBM PC.

Q. Did you ever say, as has been widely circulated on the Internet, "640K [of RAM] ought to be enough for anybody?"

A. No! That makes me so mad I can't believe it! Do you realize the pain the industry went through while the IBM PC was limited to 640K? The machine was going to be 512K at one point, and we kept pushing it up. I never said that statement–I said the opposite of that.

Bill Gates, the great revisionist! :rolleyes:

[Spart]

Originally posted by jaedreth
Bill stated about 20 years ago that 512k memory ought to be enough for anybody... (anyone, exact quote and date?)

I believe it was "640Kb of RAM ought to be enough for anybody." And I think he really did say that. We all know how honest he is.

Originally posted by jaedreth
So we've jumped from kilo to giga in 20 years, so roughly speaking, we'll jump about every 10 years. (Speaking in Bytes of RAM)

You forgot mega. And we went from kilo to mega in less time than mega to giga, at least as it pertains to RAM.

Originally posted by jaedreth
So in 2013, we'll have pcs capable of holding 1-6 petabytes of ram (even if they come standard with 256 GB of RAM), have 20-80 Petabyte hard drives, and they'll run at 1-4 Petahertz.

I think you are getting ahead of yourself there. In 2013, we will still be well within the THz range, applying Moore's law to clock speed. Which is saying a lot, as Intel seems to be slowing down with regard to the maximum Hz approach. Also, by that time we will probably be using hard drives measured in terrabytes as the norm, maybe a few petabytes on the bleeding edge.

Originally posted by jaedreth
I'll be 36 then, and far more wealthy than I am now, and I'll enjoy every moment of it...

Just imagine 2023. ;)

Looking at it now, it may seem very exciting. Ten years is a long time, however, and slower progress will numb you to much of it. Trust me.

;)

[cheadley]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
no no no

remember these chips are for servers only

That's right. To clarify, remember that the Power4 chips that the 970 are based on are actually running with SLOWER Ghz ratings than the 970. Although I'm not an engineer, it's obvious from reading IBM's website concerning the differences between the Power4 and the 970 that the Power series intentionally runs slower than the 970 and future derivations. The reason is that the Power series is intended for servers and has greater error checking and general stability. Even though the Power5 will have a somewhat "slow" rating compared to what we're hoping for, its derivations made for Apple will be MUCH faster.

[mim]

Originally posted by cheadley
That's right. To clarify, remember that the Power4 chips that the 970 are based on are actually running with SLOWER Ghz ratings than the 970. Although I'm not an engineer, it's obvious from reading IBM's website concerning the differences between the Power4 and the 970 that the Power series intentionally runs slower than the 970 and future derivations. The reason is that the Power series is intended for servers and has greater error checking and general stability. Even though the Power5 will have a somewhat "slow" rating compared to what we're hoping for, its derivations made for Apple will be MUCH faster.

Despite that IBM seem very conservative with their projected frequency ratings (I'm remembering the 970 was going to top out at 1.8Ghz, not start there...) the Power series chips have very thick oxide gates to increase their stability (fractionally) - this also reduces the frequency they can run at.

I believe the 970 uses cow'ide gates instead, and while not as good as raw'ide gates, should do us just fine. :rolleyes: :p

[hasapi]

Originally posted by mvc
Or to paraphrase Greg Joswiak "ASCII Purple is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon…" ;)

Good One! :D

What's important is that the desktop derivatives 9xx series chips, you know the ones Apple is using?, they are developed quite closely, and since they will not be server chips designed for speed instead of reliability, the 980 for instance will scale from 3G+. Yee Ha! :D

[silvergunuk]

Recently I heard from somwhere that the power 6 will have 3 Altivec pipelines. Will this perhaps be used by Apple for servers and Renderfarms? Seeing as Pixar just annouced they moved over to Apple, maybe this is true

[jaedreth]

Are we there yet?

Jaedreth

[shen]

gee, bill claims he didn't make the 640k comment? what a surprise for a guy who released two different books titled "the road ahead." the first, if i recall, downplayed the internet as a toy for gamers.

the current version, it should be noted, says "the internet is central to everything we do."

yeah, i trust him.

[DakotaGuy]

Originally posted by Mr.Hey
if this is true ......Whoo Hoo!
Apple using IBM CPUs was one of the best decision Apple ever made.
:D

edit: whoa that was freaky he said what I said :p

Actually Apple has been using IBM CPU's for years. Only the G4 was a Motorola only chip. IBM and Motorola have been suppiers to Apple since they began with PowerPC processors. I think the first PowerPC in a Mac, the 601, was an IBM chip.

[eatme8888]

Who cares? The Power5 is not the IBM 970 or IBM 980. The Power5 is not a PPC processor.

Who cares what it's going to do? It doesn't matter to Mac users one bit.

Slow news day.

[daveL]

Originally posted by eatme8888
Who cares? The Power5 is not the IBM 970 or IBM 980. The Power5 is not a PPC processor.

Who cares what it's going to do? It doesn't matter to Mac users one bit.

Slow news day.
I suggest you go back in the archives and read the relevent posts on this topic. In short, the 970 *is* derived from the Power4 and the 980, or whatever they choose to call it, *will be* derived from the Power5. Furthermore, the 980 development is occuring in parallel with the Power5.

[eatme8888]

The IBM 970 is nothing like the Power4. Anyone who thinks it is doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.

The IBM 980 is nothing like the Power4 or the Power5.

Get your facts straight.

[shen]

here, get an education

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/products/powerpc/newsletter/dec2002/newproductfocus2.html

http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/02q2/ppc970/ppc970-1.html

.....putz.

[daveL]

Originally posted by eatme8888
The IBM 970 is nothing like the Power4. Anyone who thinks it is doesn't have a clue what they are talking about.

The IBM 980 is nothing like the Power4 or the Power5.

Get your facts straight.
Well, we've established, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you don't know what you're talking about. So, there's no need to waste anymore time on you. Bye.