PowerBook Updates -- As Early as Next Week?

[MacRumors]

Deciphering Mac rumors is as much an art as it is a science. Unfortunately, clear and direct information is rarely offered. Instead, pieces of information must be collected and interpreted. Over the past week, a number of common themes have intersected from a collection of smaller sites and sources.

This common thread between them appears to predict across the board PowerBook updates as early as next week. With 12", 15" and 17" Powerbook models finally seeing updates. The rumors all seem to point towards a thinner 12" PowerBook and a high end PowerBook with speeds up to 1.33GHz. Reports include backlit keyboards and FW800 throughout. Next week is the earliest date provided, otherwise timeframes are described on the order of weeks.

This information has been spread by MacBidouille (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030807135533.shtml), MacOSRumors (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33253#post433636), Kodawarisan (http://www.kodawarisan.com/ug/index.html), MacNews.net.tc (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/08/20030810175623.shtml), a Mailing List posting as well as a number of anonymous reports.

Due the nature of the internet, it is very clear that information is often repeated and spread without crediting the original source. As a result, some of the listed "sources" may simply represent a common source... however, enough seemingly independent sources have echoed the same data to report this information.

[DrGruv1]

make it so...

[edenwaith]

Sorry, but I'm going to have to rate this one as a no-go. Considering that the 15" line is around the 8-9 month marker, it is time to see that model make the Aluminum transition, but Apple might just wait long enough to bring them all up to speed at once.

Personally, I'd like to see the iBooks get a nice boost, even if that meant getting a sub-$1000 iBook with a CD-RW drive.

[maradong]

dunno if i should believe it or not.
thought i m definetly waiting for those powerbooks to be updated :D

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by DrGruv1
make it so...

Please, please,please....

I bloody need to replace my iBook: watching divx on it is not very convenient. But I could very well see the update next week and me having to find an internet cafe on holiday to check on monday or tuesday... (last november I was on holiday when they updated the 15" and I had to check in a hotel in the Seychelles on what felt like a 14.4k modem: about 2 to 3 minutes per page at best. Talk about being sad...)

Anyway... It's about time we saw an update on the PB line.

[AndrewMT]

Is anyone as unexcited about the revisions in the powerbook line as I am? I have never been impressed with the G4s performance in notebooks. I for one am eagerly awaiting the G5 powerbooks and will not even be tempted by the modest speedbumps coming to the notebook line soon.

Is it possible that we could see a G5 powerbook by the holiday season? Yah, guess not :mad:

[markseaton]

All i realy want is the 15" to get the same updates that the 12" and 17" have and the new case i don't need to see any more speed boosts or any new features but i hope they make the glowing keyboard in all the models maybe with better controls for the diming and color, my buddy has a back lit car tac and he can turn a nob and ajust the color a bit from blue to teal and purple i and the brightness i think i would be cool to have a control panel to do this :)

[nagromme]

No G5s until next year.

But the G4 has always been a strong performer for laptops, and that should continue--especially if new PBooks use the 7457. (Which is probably the delay: Motorola's fault.)

As for timing... I have seen reports of next week, but I bet they are all repeating whatever site said so first. And the details, like lit keyboards and thinner 12", sound even more in doubt.

It would be nice if it happened, though!

[mvc]

noo nooo don't listen to the sirens, what they are singing are sweet sweet nothings to snare you with FALSE HOPE :eek:

Actually I heard a rumor that the 15" Powerbook has been discontinued. Steve said: "Well we can't bring it out now, its so freaking late we are just gonna look like a whole bunch of wobbly asses.…"

[Squire]

Originally posted by AndrewMT
Is anyone as unexcited about the revisions in the powerbook line as I am?

I'm not too excited. I don't intend on buying a notebook in the next six months. Although seeing the cool keyboard and a thinner case on the 12" would be neat. Maybe they've decided to make it a real PowerBook this time instead of an aluminum iBook.

I really feel sorry for the people who HAVE been waiting.

Squire

[stefman]

Originally posted by mvc
Actually I heard a rumor that the 15" Powerbook has been discontinued. Steve said: "Well we can't bring it out now, its so freaking late we are just gonna look like a whole bunch of wobbly asses.…"

Yeah! It's getting to a point that it's embarrassing!!

I guess we'll know on Monday or Tuesday and if not I'll buy the current 17" (I'm still trying to convince myself that the size is not too big, so I go everyday to the Apple Store and look at it and lift it to make sure I can live with it).

[AndrewMT]

Originally posted by nagromme

But the G4 has always been a strong performer for laptops, and that should continue--especially if new PBooks use the 7457. (Which is probably the delay: Motorola's fault.)


I was always displeased with how slow everything was on my 550mhz Ti from adobe to macromedia applications. The new powerbooks at the apple store do not seem that much faster. Compared to windoze laptops, Apple's powerbooks are really starting to lag behind. I think Steve Jobs knows this too. Unfortunately, there is nothing he can do about it right now and Apple will be forced to speedbumb the current powerbook line.

Us Apple fans finally have a desktop that will make peecee fans drool with its raw power. Now we need a notebook(s) that can do the same thing.

In addition, I would also like to note that the 12" still only has a 16mb video card which is one reason why I did not purchase the powerbook when it was released. Apple needs a solid graphics processor with abundant memory in each computer they make. It would also be nice, but not necessary, to have 128mb of video memory on the 15" and 17" as a bto option.

[AndrewMT]

Originally posted by stefman
Yeah! It's getting to a point that it's embarrassing!!


It's going to be embarrassing when Apple releases these speedbumped powerbooks. Apple is basically forced to release these modestly updated powerbooks because IBM is not ready to produce the 90nm PPC 970. So these new powerbooks are basically a filler until some time in 2004.

[vrapan]

I would also like to note that the 12" still only has a 16mb video card which is one reason why I did not purchase the powerbook when it was released.

If you are talking about the 12" PB and not the 12" iBook then it does not have only 16MB RAM it has 32 - not the 64 of the 1GHz 15" and the 17" but does have 32MB. The graphics card is relatively underpowered and I would have preffered an ATI solution with 64MB but I am happy with what it has. Given that it does get quite warm I wouldn't want to make it any warmer by a much faster graphics card.

[abdul]

thinner? they are already 2.5cm thick, it would be nice carying something thinner but i think that would be wishful thinking.

the other thing i want to know is how many watss does the current 1ghz g4 produce, cos the g5 only produces ~16watts at 1.4Ghz (i think). would that be too much?

just move the ibook to an altivec enabled chip, i would be happy as i dont have to upgrade the hardware when the next os come out, that would require a chip g4 or above.

[MattG]

This is just getting pathetic. Maybe I *should* just wait until the G5's are in Powerbooks? At this rate it couldn't be too much longer...

[sacrilicious]

You're all haters. I'm really excited and I think this is plausible. Hello, my first Apple machine.

[vrapan]

thinner? they are already 2.5cm thick,

The 12" is a bit thicker but given the heat problems I doubt it is realistic to get much thinner. Actually the form factor of it is just perfect for me. The bigger ones neet to be thin simply because it reduces their overall "bigness" effect. I mean I saw a week ago the new widescreen 17" toshiba that was something like 2 - 2.5" well it looked like a monster. I would hate to imagine the back problems of anyone trying to carry that around a lot. If you compare it with the 17" PB the PB looks very wide but gives the effect of a much more managable size. But the 12" at 1.18" or 3cm looks just right...

[mim]

Originally posted by MattG
This is just getting pathetic. Maybe I *should* just wait until the G5's are in Powerbooks? At this rate it couldn't be too much longer...

Kinda in the same boat. But if the powerbooks are updated soon, it will be atleast another 6 months after that for an G5 introduction to the line - this ties into what we know of the timeframe for lowpower/90nm process 970's as well.

I'm thinking about just going for an iBook - the wait and see what happens next year G5 wise approach. The only real bummer the the lack of altivec.

[CrackedButter]

Other than the release of the PB's i would like some sort of explanation from Apple as to why it took so long. It isn't a rumour so they CAN comment.

[tduality]

Originally posted by mim
Kinda in the same boat. But if the powerbooks are updated soon, it will be atleast another 6 months after that for an G5 introduction to the line - this ties into what we know of the timeframe for lowpower/90nm process 970's as well.


I guess it's rather the announcement not the introduction of PB G5 one could hope for in 6 months. And then the waiting begins again....Don't think we'd be able to hold such a beast in our hands before a years time.

(Edited for spelling)

[LegionCSUF]

Well, as I've said in other threads, this *better* be why my 12" PowerBook order has been delayed from the 12th to the 19th. Kinda interesting how a PowerBook that was supposed to ship in a mere "1 to 3 days" (even my iPod was/is scheduled to take longer) suddenly turned into over a week wait.

A speed boost and a backlit keyboard would be great. Maybe not limiting the 12" to 640MB RAM?? Would be nice.

[marijn]

Originally posted by tduality
I guess it's rather the announcement not the introduction of PB G5 one could hope for in 6 months. And then the waiting begins again....Don't think we'd be able to hold such a beast in our hands before a years time.

'Ergo': we just have to accept there's always a period of six months in which you stay cool with a *brand new* PowerBook.
I can imagine some may complain about this period compared to the period involved with introduction of PC updates.

Fact is, Apple Computers releases updates less often than any other major computercompany.
Nevertheless, big difference is, when Apple releases new products it's always sump'thing good and really a step foreward.

'guess we just have to accept these things get outdated as time goes by. What's really important for me, is that I keep having something which has and keeps its true value and strength...
After all, it's not a shame newer products are being released (that will always continue), it IS a shame when your outdated computer won't run new software because of so called 'innovative company vision'...


After waiting a long time, i'd finally decided to purchase a PowerBook but now i'll wait (even a few weeks, if neccesary) for updates to come...

:D

[tazznb]

I Love Motorola...... NOT!

I'm happy that it is FINALLY SUPPOSED TO BE HAPPENING.

I'm not happy at all with where we are GOING-TO-BE spec-wise, because we should have been there a looooooooooooooooooong time ago, and currently be waiting for something much better PRESENTLY .

So don't get your hopes up too high on the fact that we're being bumped up to be fives paces behind where we should be.

Desktop-wise Apple needs to take Moto off life support; BTW their phones are not that great either .:o

[DHagan4755]

Hey Arn,

Is your story on this an almalgm of rumor sites and YOUR sources, or strictly rumor sites? The way the story was written, it sounds like you have your own sources that make the rumor sites verifiable?

On Another Note, if you go to MacPrices (http://www.macprices.com/g4tracker.shtml), you'll see that a lot of people are out of stock, a clear indicator that *something* is coming. Not at any period between February and Creative Pro in July when rumors of new PowerBooks were rampant, did this chart show many (if any) places out of stock on 15" PB's. So I think something is gelling.

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
So I think something is gelling

Like a felon.

almalgm

A tad off on that one. :)

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
Hey Arn,

Is your story on this an almalgm of rumor sites and YOUR sources, or strictly rumor sites? The way the story was written, it sounds like you have your own sources that make the rumor sites verifiable?


I think Arn is more the Master of decifering the good rumors from the bad. Or he has an inside source because he is that good. :)

If he thinks it is finally time, then we should all keep our heads up for next Tuesday. ;)

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by AndrewMT

In addition, I would also like to note that the 12" still only has a 16mb video card which is one reason why I did not purchase the powerbook when it was released.

The 12" PowerBook has always had a 32MB graphics card.

Originally posted by vrapan
But the 12" at 1.18" or 3cm looks just right...

I agree, I'm looking at mine now and it just looks 'right' at that depth. I'd rather have things such as heat, L3 cache and latch finish sorted out first, aswell as minimum 256MB on board.

Originally posted by LegionCSUF
A speed boost and a backlit keyboard would be great. Maybe not limiting the 12" to 640MB RAM?? Would be nice.

The 12" PowerBook isn't limited to 640MB RAM, you can already buy 1GiB modules for it. I suppose you mean *feasibly* limited to 640MB?

A backlit keyboard on the 12" would be really cool.

Interesting about you reporting delays on your PowerBook...there is a thread in the Apple discussions reporting the same thing, the date apparently keeps getting pushed back.

AppleMatt

[cb911]

yes!! this is all i've been waiting for since i sold my TiBook 3 months ago!

i'm really excited about this... and i'm just hoping that it's not 'in the coming weeks'.

Arn wouldn't put another 'rumor roundup' on the main page like that unless something was up.;) i'm feeling very optimistic about next week. :D

[AllenPSU]

I was planning on buying a PB 12 this Friday through the Apple Store Online. If there is something coming out on Monday or Tuesday, I just hope they grandfather me. I just cannot wait any longer. I have to transfer all the stuff from my desktop before Sept 10.

I guess we will just have to wait and see how things play out.

[gadg]

Interested in your opinion: right now I'm holding on to using an iBook that I borrowed off a friend until the new Powerbooks are released. Perhaps this might come as early as next week. Would be cool.

Then there is ofcourse the other issue of "Panther at the end of this year" (which seems the most likely rumor) ...

I'm probably going to get AppleCare with the Powerbook. Should I do this, the OS installed on the Powerbook would be included in AppleCare. Should I update at a later time to Panther, coverage for Panther will be outside of AppleCare if I am not mistaken.

Since I can't truthfully say I'm in a rush, I'm guessing it would be wise for me to wait for Panther and (assuming they have been released by then) then get a Powerbook.

Any comments/ideas?

[NHMac]

Small Dog Stock levels seem to point to somthing happening soon as well

G4/867 12 inch PowerBook 256/60/Superdrive . . . . . . n Avail 1849.00
G4/867 12 inch PowerBook 256/60/Combo . . . . . . . . . n Avail 1649.00
PowerBook 15in G4/867 256/40/Combo/32mb VRAM . . . . . n b/o 1999.00
PowerBook 15in G4/1GHz 512/60/Superdrive/56K/64mb VRAM n b/o 2599.00
PowerBook 15in G4/1GHz 512/60gb/Combo/Airport/64mb VRA n b/o 2399.00
PowerBook 15in G4/1GHz 512/40gb/Combo/Airport/64mb VRA n 1 2349.00
PowerBook 15in G4/1GHz 512/40gb/Superdrive/Airport/64m n b/o 2749.00
PowerBook G4/1GHz 17 inch 512/60/SuperDrive . . . . . n Aug 1 3299.00

[The Shadow]

Originally posted by gadg
Then there is ofcourse the other issue of "Panther at the end of this year" (which seems the most likely rumor) ...

Since I can't truthfully say I'm in a rush, I'm guessing it would be wise for me to wait for Panther and (assuming they have been released by then) then get a Powerbook.

Any comments/ideas?

Going on previous form, one could expect hardware purchasers, within 3 months of Panther shipping, to get a really cheap deal on Panther. eg $30-$50.

But yeah, I am kind of the in same mind as you in REVERSE. I usually invest in OS upgrades straight away, but in the case of Panther, I'll think I'll wait till I upgrade my PowerMac to a G5 at some undetermined time next year.

[curious-au]

Actually I heard a rumor that the 15" Powerbook has been discontinued.
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~alana/images/pbook-iwtb.jpg

[Escher]

Originally posted by gadg
Since I can't truthfully say I'm in a rush, I'm guessing it would be wise for me to wait for Panther and (assuming they have been released by then) then get a Powerbook.

If you get AppleCare for a PowerBook that ships with Jaguar, I have no doubt that you'll receive support even after you buy and install Panther. That's why you pay that exorbitant AppleCare fee. It's also supposed to cover peripherals that you buy within the year after your CPU purchase. (Classic example was people getting their graphite AirPort Base Stations repaired, even though they bought them after their 'Books.) However, you may have to pay full price for the Panther disks.

Waiting for a major OS release to buy new hardware is a really good point, gadg. It's nice to have hardware-specific software restore disks with the latest OS. I've already paid for Jaguar. So it would be nice to get Panther for free with my new Rev.B 12-inch PowerBook.

Escher

[tduality]

Originally posted by marijn
'Ergo': we just have to accept there's always a period of six months in which you stay cool with a *brand new* PowerBook.
I can imagine some may complain about this period compared to the period involved with introduction of PC updates.

Fact is, Apple Computers releases updates less often than any other major computercompany.
Nevertheless, big difference is, when Apple releases new products it's always sump'thing good and really a step foreward.

'guess we just have to accept these things get outdated as time goes by. What's really important for me, is that I keep having something which has and keeps its true value and strength...
After all, it's not a shame newer products are being released (that will always continue), it IS a shame when your outdated computer won't run new software because of so called 'innovative company vision'...


After waiting a long time, i'd finally decided to purchase a PowerBook but now i'll wait (even a few weeks, if neccesary) for updates to come...

:D

I completely agree. As I bought my PM G4/400 3 years ago I thought 'this machine shall last at least 4 years'. And I'm still happy with it. Some applications could use some more speed but overall its OK. So having an outdated machine is just fine for me.

So I'll replace my PM with an PB 17'' G5 next year. :D (Just dreaming about the 17'')

[vrapan]

m probably going to get AppleCare with the Powerbook. Should I do this, the OS installed on the Powerbook would be included in AppleCare. Should I update at a later time to Panther, coverage for Panther will be outside of AppleCare if I am not mistaken.


I am not sure I am understanding you. What do you mean Panther will be outside AppleCare? AppleCare is a support and service pack for your purchase if something goes wrong they will fix it for free for the period of the AppleCare and you can call them for free if you have any problems with your computer - be it hardware or Apple software I guess. I dont see any reason why they wouldn't "support" your software problems if you install Panther at a later date. Your AppleCare will cover your hardware with any Apple OS on it.

Now if you mean that if you buy the laptop as soon as they come and then you will have to pay full price for Panther that might be true. I do think Panther will be released at the latest mid October and announced in Paris in September. As long as I understand it with a new Apple you get coupons that make you eligible to upgrade for 20$ to the next OS if the next OS is released in a month from the day you purchased your laptop - now that might change of course. I mean it is up to Apple to set the time period between the purchase of a Mac and the release of a new OS in which you are eligible for the discount. I hope I helped

[Lord Bodak]

All I want is L3 cache and 1 GHz in the 12", although a drop from $1599 to $1399 would be nice too! :D

I'm actually kinda hoping they don't make it thinner, b/c I like the current form factor, plus all the nice sleeves and bags would need to be redesigned and I don't want to wait!

**Ready to buy his first Mac next week!**

[pimentoLoaf]

Without a new 15", what fills the void between 12 & 17?

And I need a 15" to replace my ol' 12" dual-USB iceBook & a crash-happy winXP notebook.

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by mim
I'm thinking about just going for an iBook[...]
The only real bummer the the lack of altivec.

And that shows when playing movies (mpeg-4 or divx) whether it is on VLC or Quicktime. I would recommend a 12" PB from Apple refurbish store... well cheap IMHO).

[mvc]

Originally posted by curious-au
I want to believe

Roger that Mulder, we can now all say we have seen our first Upgrade Failure Occurrence.

And hopefully our last. :rolleyes:

[kwajo.com]

Originally posted by LegionCSUF
Well, as I've said in other threads, this *better* be why my 12" PowerBook order has been delayed from the 12th to the 19th. Kinda interesting how a PowerBook that was supposed to ship in a mere "1 to 3 days" (even my iPod was/is scheduled to take longer) suddenly turned into over a week wait.

A speed boost and a backlit keyboard would be great. Maybe not limiting the 12" to 640MB RAM?? Would be nice.

exact same situation here. both items were delayed until the 19th of August. I had gotten tired of waiting, and had to buy know so that I got the machine in time for my departure for University. Does anybody have any idea if Apple is kind enough to up my order to a revision of the 12", or would I just get the previous model alot slower? Here's hoping for the former. . .

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by gadg

I'm probably going to get AppleCare with the Powerbook. Should I do this, the OS installed on the Powerbook would be included in AppleCare. Should I update at a later time to Panther, coverage for Panther will be outside of AppleCare if I am not mistaken.


Applecare definitely won't cover a new version of the operating system. However, last time, there was some sort of guarantee for new computer purchases if the date of purchase was close enough to the release of Jaguar. I forget how much, maybe 2 weeks?

[JimmyB]

Is anyone checking the Apple site to see if they slipped and released the new PB graphic too early? Like, "The World's, er, Faster Laptop Computer." At least then we can debate whether it's for real or a prank. That was fun.

[chazmox]

Not that I am not expecting this or wanting this...

But I have two concerns...

1.) Are the other rumor sites just repeating MacBidouile??? In their articles, it almost seems that way...

2.) This seems like a pretty big announcement for Apple. Are they planning on just updating it on their page? Wouldn't a press release be announced or scheduled?

[master shake]

This is my first post - I was hoping to add some info and hopefully get some in return. I'm not sure how Apple feels about their resellers giving information on these sites - but since they don't tell us anything anyway, I think it is relatively safe (I never signed any NDAs or anything). Anyway, I will try to remain a little vague just in case.

I work for an Apple Reseller and I am trying to help out a customer I have been working with for a long time. Her daughter needs a PowerBook for school by the end of the month, and I am trying to get her one. The only problem is - there is not a single 12" OR 15" PowerBook at any of our distributers. Not one. The ETA for the backorders keeps changing every day. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but that alone may support these rumors.

What I was wondering is if anyone else out there reading this is also a reseller or has access to the same kind of information, becuase I promised my customer that I would get her a PowerBook soon.

I really could care less if they update them now or later, I can't afford it. :) But, it just gets really frustrating when I can't sell computers to my customers becuase Apple won't tell us what's going on. I would be happy to sign a NDA, but since I didn't - welcome to MacRumors Forums...

[ryan]

Originally posted by mvc

Actually I heard a rumor that the 15" Powerbook has been discontinued. Steve said: "Well we can't bring it out now, its so freaking late we are just gonna look like a whole bunch of wobbly asses.…" Yeah, discontinuing the 15" PB makes a lot of sense (rolls eyes). That would leave a huge gap in terms of performance, price and function between the 12" and 17" models.

[praetorian_x]

Turns out, this was all just a big misunderstanding. When we thought we heard Steve say

"This is the year of the laptop"

we were mistaken, what he really said was

"This is the laptop for the year"

Silly us.

: - \

Cheers,
prat

[ksugaya]

It may happen for 15, because it is depleted from the market.
http://www.macprices.com/g4tracker.shtml
Though I am not sure about 12.
http://www.macprices.com/12pbtracker.shtml:confused:

[holy MAC!]

i would like to comment:

that i think this situation is completely based on apple's opinion of Apple Expo Paris.....

i know that apple never releases anything good there (i say cuz they're french), but they've had two great conferences so far.... why not make it 3?

think about it:
it doesn't make sense to release powerbooks right now and then release panther later, because you'll have lots of pissed off pbook users...... (of course, they can always release the pbook now and panther at the end of year)

also, if panther is close to gold master,
why not release it along side of the powerbook???

i can sort of see that happening.

i mean..... as good as rumors have gotten, LET ME REMIND EVERYONE!

unpredicted stuff:
powewbook 12, 17 inches
nothing about the 1gig bus (except from the leak)


seriously! i mean.... i'll be more than happy if they release it before school starts, but the damage has already been done........ all the college kids have probably already bought their notebooks......

although i would doubt that they would make the 12 inch thinner, purely for space reasons......

but what happened to rumors of that 1.2 ghz G5??????? i thought that was the most probably thing that's going to happen to the powrbook???????????

[vrapan]

Applecare definitely won't cover a new version of the operating system. However, last time, there was some sort of guarantee for new computer purchases if the date of purchase was close enough to the release of Jaguar. I forget how much, maybe 2 weeks?

Could you explain this please. Obviously I am missing something. Does installing a new version of OS invalidates your Applecare or is it just that if you install it they will charge you if you call them with a question instead being free? I thought AppleCare is exclusively bound to the machine regardless of the version of OS...

[vrapan]

Think about it:
it doesn't make sense to release powerbooks right now and then release panther later, because you'll have lots of pissed off pbook users...... (of course, they can always release the pbook now and panther at the end of year)

also, if panther is close to gold master,
why not release it along side of the powerbook???


Well I disagree. Why would they have to release them together? What makes them do that? PBs are a bit late for an update so I don't think that the release of Panther should matter. If they can get them out they will cause they know there are still people holding out. On top of that none will be pissed simply because the Paris Expo is within a month from the 19th. Therefore the coupons will be valid for a simpe 20$ upgrade. If they have them ready 19th is ok. I mean unless a G5 is in the PBs (i dont think so) then there is not much to get too excited about. Don't take me wrong I am excited to see them but: The 15" will become Al and get AE and bluetooth and DDR (no biggy) maybe they will get a bit faster maybe they will get some extra standard RAM and bigger drives and maybe the 12" will get an L3 and maybe all will get better graphic cards. I mean whenever such things happen they never bothered with a press release right? I mean the iBooks got speed bumps recently but they didnt get a press release right? did they have a press release for the iMac getting 17"? and even if they had a press release it still is not big enough for Jobs to talk about.... I mean the 12" and the 17" where brand new products. The G5 is brand new product lots to get excited about but simple improvements on the current line.... i dont think so... They will just update the web page or make a little announcement and that will be it. Whenever they get moved to G5 then that will be worthy of an Expo release or a Press Release...

[macnews]

whenever they come I just hope the backlit keyboard and FW800 is true across the models.

[Rick65000]

"Deciphering Mac rumors is as much an art as it is a science. Unfortunately, clear and direct information is rarely offered. Instead, pieces of information must be collected and interpreted. ..."

It is a riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma.

I rolled the bones and they say that its an intentional laptop shortage. Come September...

:D

[sanford]

Originally posted by AndrewMT
Is anyone as unexcited about the revisions in the powerbook line as I am?
...
Is it possible that we could see a G5 powerbook by the holiday season? Yah, guess not :mad:

I'm planning on making my 15" TiBook (667/Combo/Vga-out) last *until* G5 notebooks are released. I really don't need more system power for what I do, so I don't *need* any kind of upgrade until the OS starts to outstrip the hardware. Since Panther is supposed to be faster than Jaguar on all hardware, this means at *least* another 18 months before I have to worry on the notebook front. My desktop is a bit faster than my notebook, so I'm set there as well.

Otherwise, the only complaint I have about my TiBook is that I had to send it back to Apple to have a problem with a pinched display cable fixed and they bent one of the display hinges while taking it apart and replacing the bezel. As it is, the bent hinge is barely even a cosmetic issue -- you can't even tell unless you really look for it -- so I never sent it back again.

But, I think it's going to be at least a year before we see a G5 Powerbook.

So to answer your question, I'm waiting at least until the first G5 Powerbooks are released, if not longer, sitting pat and waiting for my AppleCare warranties to expire. My only problem is that I'll be on schedule to replace both my notebook and my desktop at the same time -- I've tried sticking with one or the other, but I like having both. That's a substantial investment, or I'll have to settle for the desktop lagging behind the G5 notebook; possibly I'll deal with some kind of fast iMac on the desktop with a G5 on the notebook side.

[Squire]

Originally posted by mim
Kinda in the same boat. But if the powerbooks are updated soon, it will be atleast another 6 months after that for an G5 introduction to the line - this ties into what we know of the timeframe for lowpower/90nm process 970's as well.

I'm thinking about just going for an iBook - the wait and see what happens next year G5 wise approach. The only real bummer the the lack of altivec.

Luckily, I don't have the cash for a new notebook right now. I also have a perfectly useable notebook on my desk at work: a Pentium 166 MHz with a 5 GB HD and Windows 98. Too bad it weighs 15 lbs. and takes an eternity to fire up.

If/When G5 PowerBooks come out, I think my notebook will have a little "accident." (I would still have to convince my wife that it was a necessary purchase.)

Squire

[evapor8]

Ok, so last night, I became an official switcher. I will probably get flack for buying a purchase to close to an upgrade, but hey, I have been on the fence for too long now, and when I walked into the Apple Store, the 15" was calling my name. After all, these are just rumors, nothing official. I am aware that the new 15" *might* be coming soon, but I saw the deal and took it. I'm not really sure why I am posting this, but it does seem relevant. I can't add or negate anything from this rumor mill, but just wanted to spread my joy of being an official mac user.

Ok, i can add something. The reason I decided to switch instead of wait was that in my eyes, this upgrade seems minimal. If it were to happen next week, then it just seem to fall out of whack of the Panther release, back to school, everything. So for that reason, it seems smaller of a revision than I would hope for. That being said, I decided to go for what seemed like a better deal. On the other hand, if Apple decides to suprize me and release something amazing and wonderful, I will be w/in my 10 day return, pay the restocking fee and upgrade to the new pb...but barring what seems like a miracle, I love my now pbook, and look forward to many fun years out of it (Until I can afford yet ANOTHER mac)

I'm done now....time to work (play with new pbook...haha)

[supercres]

Originally posted by cb911
i'm really excited about this... and i'm just hoping that it's not 'in the coming weeks'.

Please let it be so... Then I might not even have to lug the family's new eMac 900 miles up to college as a temporary replacement.

As for when they'll be shipping... :(

[Mudbug]

I think you've made a good choice - waiting for an update is like waiting for Godot - sometimes it pays off, and sometimes it never shows up. Instead of waiting for what is essentially vaporware (for another week, at least) you've made the bright decision to go ahead and get an almost as fast machine that you can use NOW. I for one applaud the decision.

[Mudbug]

Originally posted by supercres
Please let it be so... Then I might not even have to lug the family's new eMac 900 miles up to college as a temporary replacement.

As for when they'll be shipping... :(


ahhh - and another kink in the armor has been found - the ship date. They can announce all they want next week, but if they're not available now, then all the students waiting for new machines before going back to school will be just that - waiting.

<edit> sorry for the double post - supercres posted while i was posting the first one... </edit>

[Lyle]

Originally posted by evapor8
Ok, so last night, I became an official switcher. I will probably get flack for buying a purchase to close to an upgrade, but hey, I have been on the fence for too long now, and when I walked into the Apple Store, the 15" was calling my name. After all, these are just rumors, nothing official. I am aware that the new 15" *might* be coming soon, but I saw the deal and took it. I'm not really sure why I am posting this, but it does seem relevant. I can't add or negate anything from this rumor mill, but just wanted to spread my joy of being an official mac user.I got my new 15" TiBook about two weeks ago and am still having a lot of fun with it. It's a great machine, and I don't think I'll be disappointed when (if) that model is eventually updated.

[sanford]

Originally posted by tduality
I completely agree. As I bought my PM G4/400 3 years ago I thought 'this machine shall last at least 4 years'. And I'm still happy with it. Some applications could use some more speed but overall its OK. So having an outdated machine is just fine for me.

So I'll replace my PM with an PB 17'' G5 next year. :D (Just dreaming about the 17'')

I think there are principally two kind of computer users: computer hobbyists who because of the nature of their interests want and/or need the latest, fastest hardware; and then the other group, involved mainly in doing things -- perhaps as simple as word processing -- with their computers. You sound like part of the latter group, happy to use a computer for three or four years before upgrading.

I briefly considered buying a new Powerbook when they are released with the ambiguous notion of consolidating everything on one Mac -- though I later realized that once I plug everything in to that desktop replacement 17" it's just not as portable as it first seemed. Anyway, I decided against when I realized that the hassle of moving everything over to a new computer would outweigh the benefit of any system enhancement and probably derail me from various bits of work. So, I dismissed the idea and decided to wait out the 18 months or so left on my AppleCare and then decide whether to buy both a new desktop and notebook or try and consolidate on a powerful notebook.

But Apple sure does have a way of making you want something you just don't need...

[elemenopy]

Originally posted by master shake
I work for an Apple Reseller and I am trying to help out a customer I have been working with for a long time. Her daughter needs a PowerBook for school by the end of the month, and I am trying to get her one. The only problem is - there is not a single 12" OR 15" PowerBook at any of our distributers. Not one. The ETA for the backorders keeps changing every day. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but that alone may support these rumors.

What I was wondering is if anyone else out there reading this is also a reseller or has access to the same kind of information, becuase I promised my customer that I would get her a PowerBook soon.

I'm not a reseller, but I do know that my reseller is experiencing the same issue... I decided to buy a 15" TiBook on 7/29 (I would be perfectly happy with this "older" model--it beats the pants off my WallStreet/233) and I still don't have it.

Apparently someone else who ordered one the same day received it by the end of that week, but mine showed an original ship date of 8/5. But on 8/5, the ship date changed to 8/20.

If Apple does release something new on the 18th or 19th, great! I don't know if my order would get grandfathered into the new model, and I really don't mind if it doesn't (though the backlit keyboard would be VERY nice to have, if that appears on the new 15"). But considering the channel has been completely devoid of TiBooks for so long, it seems to me that a new shipment of TiBooks from the factories seems a little unlikely in the shadow of an impending upgrade. But that's my very uninformed opinion... :cool:

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by AndrewMT
Is anyone as unexcited about the revisions in the powerbook line as I am?


PowerBook 17" G5 or bust..... *homer simpson voice* Mmmmmm speeeed....

[Mikoyan]

Originally posted by kwajo.com
exact same situation here. both items were delayed until the 19th of August. I had gotten tired of waiting, and had to buy know so that I got the machine in time for my departure for University. Does anybody have any idea if Apple is kind enough to up my order to a revision of the 12", or would I just get the previous model alot slower? Here's hoping for the former. . .

Identical situation to the T.

Bought one because I need it before the 31st, and then they emailed me last night saying it won't be shipped till the 19th.

I pray they bump the speed and keep the price the same!
My printer arrived yesterday though... order the printer, 12" and the 10g ipod last thursday.

[MrMacMan]

'Details are skimy at best...'

:rolleyes:

How did they possible shink the heatsink to a size that would fit in the Powerbook, that thing is hhhuggeee.


And how many fans are you gonna have 3? 5?

:eek:

[Mikoyan]

AppleMatt:

Interesting about you reporting delays on your PowerBook...there is a thread in the Apple discussions reporting the same thing, the date apparently keeps getting pushed back.


Can you point me to said thread? I can't find it... Thanks!
-brian

[clonenode]

Would Apple release a totally re-tooled 12" laptop just 8 months after creating the product? Noting how long they milk the design of the TiBooks and iBooks, I don't think so. Not unless we're going to be surprised with an entirely NEW product.

This is a big, back-to-school buying month. I know there are two or three shelves full of PowerBooks at my local Apple store. Wouldn't it make sense to wait until September to release new versions, so that this back-to-school buying can clear out inventory.

The AppleCare Protection Plan covers manufacturing defects on your Mac for two more years on top of the built-in 1 year warranty. That's parts and labor coverage on hardware, regardless of what is going on with software. The free phone Tech. Support is for hardware problems AND software trouble-shooting. Any Apple software is covered. Mac OS upgrades do not void any warranty. If you install Panther, you'll be covered.

[tedjac]

From what I know, it is POSSIBLE that new PBs will debut at the Paris show in September. I wouldn't expect anything sooner than that. We might get surprised, but I wouldn't hold my breath for anything sooner. Remember... NOTHING official about ANY new PB has been put out by Apple.

[master shake]

In regards to my first post about the stock levels at the main distributors...

If anyone that knows - and maybe arn could tell me - what does this complete lack of stock mean? In the past, I know there have been times when the stock would be depleted right before an update (as with right before the MD PowerMacs, and the iPods were gone long before an update) but is that a clear indication, or does this happen more often than we realize? I guess I would like to know if there have been updates to the product line every time something like this happened, or if it could be something else. I know things get backordered from time to time, but has Apple ever had this kind of depletion without updating their line?

[MattG]

I was just revisiting this thread, and the title made me laugh. As "early" as next week. I know this isn't how the title was intended to come across, but looking at the big picture, with the last update to the 15" made 9 months(?) ago, I'd say an update next week would be anything but early. :rolleyes:

[centauratlas]

I will believe it when I see it at store.apple.com.

This is the weekly, "Powerbook updates...".

They are getting so long in the tooth that they need to just skip this and go right to G5s. But we know how likely that is!

[Mudbug]

My money is on the update happening next tuesday - but it would really help spice things up if we had another "premature specification" similar to what happened to the g5... :)

[MattG]

Originally posted by Mudbug
My money is on the update happening next tuesday - but it would really help spice things up if we had another "premature specification" similar to what happened to the g5... :) lol...I will admit that I have gone to the Powerbook G4 page several times in the past few weeks in hopes that what you just said would happen!

Didn't work unfortunately :(

[alia]

Originally posted by Mudbug
I think you've made a good choice - waiting for an update is like waiting for Godot - sometimes it pays off, and sometimes it never shows up.

What a hilarious analogy! I should name mine Godot when I eventually get it!

:D

Alia

[Zuckuss]

Originally posted by evapor8
Ok, so last night, I became an official switcher. ...but just wanted to spread my joy of being an official mac user.


There will be no flack. We're all just so damn proud of you. (No sarcasm intended, seriously now)

[Zuckuss]

Originally posted by supercres
Please let it be so... Then I might not even have to lug the family's new eMac 900 miles up to college as a temporary replacement.


Oh please, you think that an emac is a lug? If the new p-book doesn't come out within the week, I'll be bringing the old (trusty) beige G3 tower and huge ass crt monitor to college. Talk about a cramped dorm.

[mrsebastian]

simply from a numbers standpoint, apple would do well to release the updated powerbooks now with free upgrades when the updated osx hits. there's a huge base of mac users that would just upgrade their operating system while not buying a new mac - with outher words your spreading out the dollars, that makes for steadier income.





http://my2cents.biz/royal72/images/royal1.gif

[areyouwishing]

Originally posted by mrsebastian
simply from a numbers standpoint, apple would do well to release the updated powerbooks now with free upgrades when the updated osx hits.
http://my2cents.biz/royal72/images/royal1.gif
I completely agree, I need a 12" and even if they come out next week I will wait until panther comes out, unless they have a free upgrade to panther.

What I want to see in the new 12"...
1ghz
L3 Cache
256 Ram standard
ATI Video Card

What I hope to see...
Backlit keys
Cooler hard drive operation
Longer battery life
Same price or lower

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by mrsebastian
simply from a numbers standpoint, apple would do well to release the updated powerbooks now with free upgrades when the updated osx hits.


I know a friend of mine who got his new 12" iBook Friday received a free upgrade coupon to Panther. Personally I think anything less then 3 months before the ship date of Panther should get free upgrades. IMHO of course.

[ZildjianKX]

I'm going to be really bummed if the 15" gets updated this Tues and they didn't throw in a 15.4" screen or a Radeon 9600 Mobile... preferably 128. With this kind of delay, they really should.

[arn]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
Hey Arn,

Is your story on this an almalgm of rumor sites and YOUR sources, or strictly rumor sites?


This is an amalgam of unverified rumors... including unverified anonymous reports.

No especially reliable sources individually. But with reason to believe that they all aren't just repeating things. The most consistent thing seems to be the specs. The timeframe is less solid.

arn

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
All I want is L3 cache and 1 GHz in the 12", although a drop from $1599 to $1399 would be nice too! :D

I'm actually kinda hoping they don't make it thinner, b/c I like the current form factor, plus all the nice sleeves and bags would need to be redesigned and I don't want to wait!

**Ready to buy his first Mac next week!**

I was going to buy one this Friday but I guess it won't hurt to wait until Monday.

I would like to see USB 2.0 in the new models though.

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by AllenPSU
I was going to buy one this Friday but I guess it won't hurt to wait until Monday.

I would like to see USB 2.0 in the new models though.

I would wait until Tuesday.... They seem to like to release updates on that day....

[kenaustus]

If the new PB's are announced on the 19th it will mean that Moto has FINALLY delivered sufficient chips to announce them.

But I've read that Moto is getting around a 20 percent yield on the chips, meaning that delivery over the coming months will be slow.

This means that anyone waiting for an upgraded PB had better be one of the first to order one, or they will be on a looooong waiting list.

The unusual thing about introducing a new 15" is that Apple doesn't need a big show to get it in the public's eye. They can put it on their website and within an hour it will be on all Mac related sites and the rumour boards will go wild. WIth 2 or 3 hours they will have orders for the first month or two of production. This one is going to be wild and will probably beat the first week of G5 sales.

For my 2 cents, I think it will happen as SJ has got to be totally pissed about the 15" situation. To make up for Moto I think he will make the 15" an Al and put all the goodies into it that he can.

[Mikoyan]

^

Hopefully those of us who've ordered 12" PBs already will get ours shipped first.

[mdntcallr]

Originally posted by ryan
Yeah, discontinuing the 15" PB makes a lot of sense (rolls eyes). That would leave a huge gap in terms of performance, price and function between the 12" and 17" models.


Damn you are right. I have been waiting to spend my money for a long time. I won't settle on a half assed product.

All i want is an apple laptop with good speed and graphics chip. NOT a cpu which is behind in mhz and can't take care of real ddr ram.

[jaedreth]

Can anyone confirm this?

Come on! If I were in any sort of production business, and I only had 20% yield on my production, my buyers would tar and feather me, as well as switch to someone else.

That must mean there are some serious technological issues with their fabs, if only 20% of the chips on any given wafer work...

And can't they compensate by creating more wafers faster?

Jaedreth

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by vrapan
Could you explain this please. Obviously I am missing something. Does installing a new version of OS invalidates your Applecare or is it just that if you install it they will charge you if you call them with a question instead being free? I thought AppleCare is exclusively bound to the machine regardless of the version of OS...

Applecare covers physical problems with the computer. I suppose if there was a software problem, e.g., couldn't wake the computer up, the tech on the phone would walk you through software solutions too. But basically you buy the computer as a package deal at the time; you pay for the current operating system and get support for that system. Applecare is not invalidated if you later upgrade; Apple is happy and wants you to spend your money on upgrades. It just won't give the upgrade to you for free.

But I see a post that someone's "friend" got a promise of free upgrade to Panther from a current purchase. Was that a joke or real? if it's real, then buying a laptop now would get you a free copy of Panther.

Why not wait till next week?

[macphoria]

Did I read it right? "Backlit keyboard throughout"? That would be cool. 12" PowerBook with backlit keyboard!

[txcraig75]

Originally posted by vrapan
Could you explain this please. Obviously I am missing something. Does installing a new version of OS invalidates your Applecare or is it just that if you install it they will charge you if you call them with a question instead being free? I thought AppleCare is exclusively bound to the machine regardless of the version of OS...

You are correct. I know. I was an AppleCare Rep for a while. AppleCare is bound to the machine. If you sell a machine covered under AppleCare to someone else, they get the AppleCare and it is not retained by the original owner. Its all tied through the serial number and original purchase date of the machine.

As for buying a new OS, that does NOT invalidate AppleCare. Allow me to clear this up with this example. Suppose you bought a brand-spanking new G4/533 when released in Jan 2001 that came with Mac OS 9.1 and is under AppleCare.

Senario 1: Panther comes out in Sept. You buy Mac OS 10.3 immediately and install. Apple SW comes with 90 days free support, but you already have AppleCare, which covers your OS and computer until Jan 2004, so the 90 free support for 10.3 is meaningless. You are already covered.

Senario 2: Panther comes out in Sept or later. You buy it in Dec. From Dec to Jan, your computer and support for the OS qualifies under AppleCare, so the 10.3 support is meaningless at that time. After the Jan 2004 purchase date for your computer rolls around, your AppleCare expires. When you call after that date, you still have abt 2 months of free SW support for your purchase of 10.3. If the problem turns out to be HW related, it is not covered by Apple and you'd be refered to a AASP.

Senario 3: Panther comes out whenever and you buy it after your AppleCare expires in Jan. If you call, you get only the 90 days free SW support and any hardware issues, you get refered to an AASP.

I hope this clears it up! :cool:

Craig

[fpnc]

I feel pretty certain that there will be updated PowerBooks next week. Since PowerBook sales have been rather flat (actually, last quarter I think unit sales were down) I can see no other explanation for the PB shortage other than end-of-life for the current configurations. Last night I noticed that the Apple store showed 5 to 7 days for delivery on the 15" and several days for __all__ of the remaining models. This contrasts with their usual same business day or (at worst) 1-2 days.

If the 15" goes to a 1.3GHz G4 and they update the graphics to a Mobility Radeon 9600, and then add Firewire 800, USB 2.0, Airport Extreme, and Bluetooth then I think it will be a good product. If at the same time they go to an improved 15.4" display, reduce the weight, and improve the battery life (significantly) then it would be a great product. If they add an improved SuperDrive to all models and then hold the prices at the current levels (i.e. SuperDrive at the price of a combo drive) then it would be an insanely great product.

[sososowhat]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I know a friend of mine who got his new 12" iBook Friday received a free upgrade coupon to Panther. Personally I think anything less then 3 months before the ship date of Panther should get free upgrades. IMHO of course.

Can you verify this? I've heard nothing definitive about "free updgrades to Panther" with currently shipping machines.

Can you post a photo of the coupon your friend received?

[Powerbook G5]

If I knew for sure they were updating them on Tuesday, I'd camp out at my PowerBook and keep refreshing the store.apple.com website until the *moment* the new PowerBooks are available so I can be one of the first to order one and get it now instead of sometime "around November" due to Motorola unable to keep up with demand or something.

[crees!]

So now that there seems to be REAL rumors the new PBs will be out next week all you ungrateful Macheads are now bashing the idea of the updates (I only read the 1st handleful of posts and then couldn't take it anymore). A couple days ago you're all on your needs begging for buttermilk that they be updated.

As a switcher I am looking forward to purchasing my 1st Mac when these come out. If all you're going to do is complain I suggest you keep those posts to yourselves.

And eat Apple's words, "G5's aren't coming to PB's anytime soon." So stop complaining about that too for the time being. Sheeeesh.

[markseaton]

Originally posted by vrapan
The 12" is a bit thicker but given the heat problems I doubt it is realistic to get much thinner. Actually the form factor of it is just perfect for me. The bigger ones neet to be thin simply because it reduces their overall "bigness" effect. I mean I saw a week ago the new widescreen 17" toshiba that was something like 2 - 2.5" well it looked like a monster. I would hate to imagine the back problems of anyone trying to carry that around a lot. If you compare it with the 17" PB the PB looks very wide but gives the effect of a much more managable size. But the 12" at 1.18" or 3cm looks just right...

Heat Problems?? i work with both the 12" and 17" every day and a slew of PC notbooks and i can tell you that a P4 in your lap will burn your nickers off fast!

:)

[macphoria]

If I knew for sure they were updating them on Tuesday, I'd camp out at my PowerBook and keep refreshing the store.apple.com website until the *moment* the new PowerBooks are available so I can be one of the first to order one and get it now instead of sometime "around November" due to Motorola unable to keep up with demand or something.
Yes indeed. On Tuesdays as of late, I check Apple Store website hoping to see "Apple Store Temporarily Unavailable" yellow sticky note.

[markseaton]

Originally posted by fpnc

If the 15" goes to a 1.3GHz G4 and they update the graphics to a Mobility Radeon 9600, and then add Firewire 800, USB 2.0, Airport Extreme, and Bluetooth then I think it will be a good product. If at the same time they go to an improved 15.4" display, reduce the weight, and improve the battery life (significantly) then it would be a great product. If they add an improved SuperDrive to all models and then hold the prices at the current levels (i.e. SuperDrive at the price of a combo drive) then it would be an insanely great product.

Wow i think you are dreaming! thats a little too much of a boost i think your more likly to see somethinng like two 15" models both with 15.4" screens FW400 and FW800 and 867mhz model with combo drive and a 1ghz model with the superdrive with bluetooth and APextreame in both and the same NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go with 32MB of DDR SDRAM it make more sence

[vrapan]

I am glad i haven't useda P4 laptop then cause even my 12" PB burns through everything short of thick pair of jeans. and given the 30 somethings or 90 somethings we have here there is no way I am wearing shorts.. This is the first thing I would beg for the 12" to get less hot please Apple do something about this HD.

[Powerbook G5]

Hey crees!, don't let others get you down. I, along with many others, are more than excited about these updates. The PowerBook I am on now is my original "switcher" machine I bought in 1999 when I became a switcher, so this is my first "updated" Mac product and I am excited. I don't have Firewire, I don't have Airport, I don't have Bluetooth, I don't have DDR, I don't have ATA/66 or 100, I don't run OS X....this update will be a huge jump above everything I have ever used on a Mac, so I am thrilled that soon I will have even a G4 and all these goodies. I would have loved to leap from the G4 and go from G3 to G5, but even a G4 would be leaps and bounds above what I am using now. Here's hoping that this time next week we are all posting the specs of the new PowerBooks we've all ordered. :)

[jaedreth]

Apple's policy has been:

Those who purchase a computer on or after the date of the new OS X update can get the new OS for $19.95.

Jaedreth

[Powerbook G5]

As far as the video card, I am hoping for an ATI 9600, but I am thinking it'll be at most a nVidia GeForce 5200 FX or something. It seems like Apple is favoring the nVidia brand lately...oh well, anything will be better than the 8 meg ATI Rage 128 I have in my PowerBook now.

[vrapan]

and all us that got already our machines would be drooling over yours till its time for us to upgrade !!! :p

[live4ever]

I just got back from the local Apple dealer and they said they can't get get me a 15" PB until their Canadian distributor gets a new shipment in (said is not expected until August 28). Hopefully, this means an update is coming next week :)

[Powerbook G5]

Well, I have been drooling for about 3 years now...first they updated my Lombard with the Pismo, with more RAM, faster G3, firewire...then the G4....along with airport, then as time went on, L3, BT, even more RAM...and each update just more and more to want until now my G3 PowerBook is laughed at by even the oldest and slowest iBook consumer laptops...I just cannot wait for my new PowerBook....please let it be next week!

[tjwett]

Originally posted by AndrewMT
...In addition, I would also like to note that the 12" still only has a 16mb video card which is one reason why I did not purchase the powerbook when it was released...

um, what? the 12"PB has a 32 mb graphics card.

[Powerbook G5]

Perhaps he was thinking about an older iBook? But yes, the 12" PowerBook has always had a 32 meg GeForce 420 Go...

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by markseaton
Wow i think you are dreaming! thats a little too much of a boost i think your more likly to see somethinng like two 15" models both with 15.4" screens FW400 and FW800 and 867mhz model with combo drive and a 1ghz model with the superdrive with bluetooth and APextreame in both and the same NVIDIA GeForce4 440 Go with 32MB of DDR SDRAM it make more sence

It better have those features after such a long wait.

I've posted this before, but this is what I want in order to shell out over 2 grand on this thing:

15.4" high resolution screen
Radeon 9600 Mobile
USB 2.0 and Firewire 400 and 800
Bluetooth and Airport Xtreme
2X Superdrive
1.3+ GHz G4
Backlit keyboard
True DDR RAM
Larger Hard Drive

That's really not too much to expect considering the time frame they've had.

[Powerbook G5]

That's exactly what I am hoping for them to have...with an addition of possibly 2 megs L3 cache and 512k L2...

[Doctor Q]

Suppose Apple announces a speedbumped 12" PowerBook for the same price as the current 867MHz, but they continue to offer the 867MHz PowerBook, at a lower price. Would people who had ordered but not taken delivery get a choice of a lower price or a faster machine? What about people who had taken delivery less than 10 days before?

Does this kind of grandfathering only apply to Apple stores or does it also apply to purchases made through universities?

[Powerbook G5]

I believe it's only through Apple, but I haven't experienced it so I cannot say for sure.

[Lori]

If it were me (and oh, it will be if this upgrade cuz it's ordered does happen), I'd definitely take the new 12" pb over the old one even if it was to be cheaper. I already got a steal on the one I ordered! Might as well keep the same budget and take more power rather than downgrade and save what, maybe a hundred bucks? It's just not worth it.

I don't see them putting the price too much lower on the older pbs if new upgraded ones are released because then it'd be a complete ripoff to buy an ibook...lol. They wouldn't want to sabatoge their ibook line, would they?

[Powerbook G5]

Why would it? You've already ordered a 12" Al iBook!

[Lori]

Hehe, yeah, good point. I actually had a friend who tried to convince me into an ibook...he questioned how I could take a pass on the "corruptable purity" of a fresh, white ibook. To me, the ibook vs. powerbook question all came down to media processing abilities and the pb looks like it'll be able to do that better.

[vrapan]

that's not true. I mean it comes with 256MB DDR(although the current G4 does not take full advantage of it) it does come with a better graphics card it does have more HD, AE, bluetooth, it can have an SD, and for goodness it does have a G4 ie and Altivec processor. I mean it is not an iBook even a "glorified" one. I think this does not make justice of the form factor of it - it is smaller than the iBook it has a much better keyboard I mean way better I love the trackpad and the screen and the speed. I think it is worth the name PB. Given it's size it already fits a lot in there.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by sososowhat
Can you verify this? I've heard nothing definitive about "free updgrades to Panther" with currently shipping machines.

Can you post a photo of the coupon your friend received?

I will talk to him after work. I know it wasn't my imagination because he was bumbed that he couldn't wait til Panther came out to get his ibook. I will find out and post ASAP.

[Powerbook G5]

It just seems to me that we are looking at a future iBook G4 in the current 12" PowerBook...maybe not now...maybe not next week...but perhaps next year the "new" G4 iBook will look an awful like a reskinned 12".

[Lori]

Originally posted by vrapan
that's not true. I mean it comes with 256MB DDR(although the current G4 does not take full advantage of it) it does come with a better graphics card it does have more HD, AE, bluetooth, it can have an SD, and for goodness it does have a G4 ie and Altivec processor. I mean it is not an iBook even a "glorified" one. I think this does not make justice of the form factor of it - it is smaller than the iBook it has a much better keyboard I mean way better I love the trackpad and the screen and the speed. I think it is worth the name PB. Given it's size it already fits a lot in there.

Very nice :) This makes me sit here and think that I'm going to be so much happier with my pb than I would w/a maxed out 12" ibook. My friend who was trying to convince me into ibook over pb pointed out that the battery life is longer, the case is more durable, it doesn't heat up as much, it can probably do most functions besides altivec related ones just as fast, it's cheaper, etc. He made a good argument, but it just wasn't good enough to make me think ibook over pb. (The supderdrive is something that definitely screams for one to pick pb if they have a use for it)

[Powerbook G5]

That's true, but I can't get too excited over a 1x Superdrive...I hope they have it up to speed for the new revisions.

[vrapan]

The battery is longer on the iBooks and that is because mainly Apple used a lower capacity battery for the PB and I still haven't understood why maybe the battery is smaller than the iBook but it is a Li battery in contrast of a conventional one on the iBook as far as I am aware.

Now more durable casing? I dont know I mean my PB has been dropped twice I dont have a case or specific bag for it I just stuff it together with lots of other stuff in my back pack i have gone mountain biking with it it has travelled to USA once once in Greece and once in Scotland and it has not a scratch not one sigle scratch.

It does get hotter but I am pretty sure this is because Al is a much better heat conductor than plastic. I believe a 12" iBook in the same casing would be very hot too.

I have seen an iBook side by side with my PB and the PB feels quite a bit snappier I mean I didn't test it or anything but it did feel faster. Both had 256MB and the iBook was an 800MHz one.

And as about the 1x SD there is firmware to make it 2x and in any case the 15" SD is 1x and so is the 17" one right?

[Powerbook G5]

They are all 1x so far...but I am hoping the new ones will be 2x with faster CD-R speeds.

[vrapan]

The heroic Mac comes to the rescue while Windows get .Blasted :D

From MacBytes:
http://www.macsrock.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=196

[capitalhood]

ANYONE ELSE NOTICE THAT!?

People are saying powerbook shiping delayed 'till the 19th, AKA NEXT TUESDAY!

ITS been so long without an update it has to happen Tuesday!

[Powerbook G5]

Yep, usually when there is a rumored "date", the first thing Macheads do is check the cal to see if it falls on a Tuesday. :D It seems almost like clockwork that Tuesday is the magical day.

[iknownothing]

Looks like nobody is expecting anything out of the ordinary from the new Powerbook - inceased speed perhaps, F800, airport extreme, backlit keyboard blah blah blah. Are there any thoughts that Apple may shake the market up a bit like they did with the 17" Powerbook launch...

.....how about a dual processor powerbook?

[Powerbook G5]

It seems difficult due to heat/power issues, not to mention, with rumors of Motorola having this much difficulty with yields, I'd hate to know how backed up and delayed they'd be in shipping if each 15/17" PowerBook had to use *two* G4s...

[vrapan]

or a 19" Powerbook how about a 21" one YIIIIIIIIIIIHA.

[macphoria]

.....how about a dual processor powerbook?
Oh no, not this again.

[iknownothing]

They could always reduce the speed and put 2 processors in - wouldn't be the first time Apple have done this when they found a processor difficult to produce. Agree that it's very unlikely though.

[iknownothing]

Macphoria: apologies if the dual processor idea is repeating an old forum, I'm new to the board....


How about an 'invisible' PB???

[Powerbook G5]

Right now I will just be happy with *any* kind of updated PowerBook by next week...

[sanford]

Originally posted by iknownothing
How about an 'invisible' PB???

That's the PowerBook G5.

[Powerbook G5]

Wouldn't that be more "vapor" than "invisible"?

[GutBomb]

2 things:

My girlfriend ordered me a 12" PowerBook last week. The order was placed on the 4th. It said 1-2 days and the ended up shipping it the same day. I got it on the 6th.

about the free panther upgrade:
the coupon does not explicitly say anyhting about panther. it is just one of those same coupons apple includes with all their computers. i don't have it with me but i believe they call it their Up To Date program or somehting like that. basically it's a coupon you can trade for discounted or free upgrades to future operating systems IF apple wishes to participate in such a program. plenty of people got burned on this same hting last year when jaguar was released (me being one. i bought an ibook 5 weeks before jag was released. apple set the cutoff for the upgrade coupons at 4 weeks)

[saint.duo]

"TRUE" DDR RAM, not going to happen. The implementation that Apple uses in the current G4s is technically correct, just not what people EXPECT anymore because intel and AMD decided to speed up the bus to match the RAM. Also, the current G4 cannot handle a bus faster than 166Mhz.

2x DVD-R, this is already in the 17" powerbook. I had a customer buy one over a 15" due to this one reason.

[Powerbook G5]

It just depends on when Panther ends up coming out...

[sanford]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Wouldn't that be more "vapor" than "invisible"?

Yeah, or "daydreams of power gluttons on a Wednesday afternoon".

[Powerbook G5]

I'd love for the new PowerBooks to come with Panther preinstalled, but I'd rather have them now than wait for that to happen.

[macphoria]

Macphoria: apologies if the dual processor idea is repeating an old forum, I'm new to the board....
Hey no problem. A lot of topics get repeated here. That just goes to show Apple did not resolve certain issues and they keep popping up in people's minds.

Since Dual Processor PowerBook issue is brought up, let me pose this hypothetical question. Would you rather have G4 Dual Processor PowerBook tomorrow or G5 PowerBook a year later?

[cb911]

someone asked if the Moto chip yeilds of 20% was true? Yeah, it's a fact that they only have around a 20% yield on the 7457 production. That was reported on at theregister.co.uk, but they were also working to fix that.

Scum-a-rola, i think it's safe to say, is the only reason why there haven't been any PowerBook updates yet. They got a bit optimistic and had the 7457 aimed for a Q3 release, then the reports of low yields, and Moto moves the date to Q4.

but the rumors of next week are different, i can feel something this time. :D

macosrumors.com is also reporting on the PowerBooks... they have some very 'direct' sounding info and seem very sure of themselves. :D

[Powerbook G5]

Well since I am buying this year, I'd rather have dual G4s now! :)

[vrapan]

if i didnt have a pb and wanted one like most people here i would definitely go with the dual G4 now i would even go with a single G4 now but since i do have a nice little pb i would definitely go for the G5

[Powerbook G5]

I just want whatever Apple will release for PowerBook revisions.

[Powerbook G5]

Never trust Macosrumors...when was the last time they have ever reported anything even remotely believable or accurate?

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by GutBomb
2 things:
My girlfriend ordered me a 12" PowerBook last week. The order was placed on the 4th. It said 1-2 days and the ended up shipping it the same day. I got it on the 6th.

Dang. My order was only 3 days after yours, and it's on the delay-to-19th course now. Looks to be either bad luck for me, or good luck for me and very bad luck for you. :)

[Powerbook G5]

I really hope this means good news...it being the 19th seems to either be coincidence or a good hint...

[CrackedButter]

Originally posted by saint.duo
"TRUE" DDR RAM, not going to happen. The implementation that Apple uses in the current G4s is technically correct, just not what people EXPECT anymore because intel and AMD decided to speed up the bus to match the RAM. Also, the current G4 cannot handle a bus faster than 166Mhz.

2x DVD-R, this is already in the 17" powerbook. I had a customer buy one over a 15" due to this one reason.

On Apple's website, the 17" is seen to be having a 1x DVD-R drive.

[Powerbook G5]

Yeah...I have never seen anywhere that the 17" ships with 2x superdrive...it's 1x unless someone personally hacks the firmware...

[vrapan]

there is a firmware hack i was reading about it today ...

[Doctor Q]

Sounds like it's never smart to buy Apple products on Mondays, because it is the end of the weekly rumor/announcement cycle. Best to buy on Tuesday or Wednesday, so you know for sure if anything was announced that Tuesday. Thursday is worse and Friday is worse again as you approach the next Monday.

[sacrilicious]

Imagine how quick a *gasp* 4x would be.

[Powerbook G5]

I could only wish...but with heat issues, 2x seems to be the more optimistic expectation...4x would be dreaming!

[sacrilicious]

Meh. I'm not going to have it on my lap while I'm waiting for it to burn a DVD anyway. Of course, I'll have to make sure it's not sitting on anything combustible.

[Powerbook G5]

Well, my PowerBook G3 has warped the table it sits on already and that's with a cooler running G3 as opposed to the much hotter G4 systems...

[sanford]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Well, my PowerBook G3 has warped the table it sits on already and that's with a cooler running G3 as opposed to the much hotter G4 systems...

Mmm... I can actually use my 667 TiBook resting on my knees and it doesn't get too hot for comfort. And that's wearing shorts. But I'm strangely heat tolerant (unless it's ambient heat, and that's a different story).

[Powerbook G5]

My PowerBook doesn't seem to get very hot, either, but it seemed to have warped the wooden table I usually have it sitting on...not sure how!

[Doctor Q]

Apple had the flower power iMac. Maybe the PowerBooks are an attempt to bring back Hot Pants!

[uberska]

If the 15s are updated next Monday, I'm buying one.

As many others have mentioned, Panther will be coming out soon and we don't want to pay full price for it in a month if we get a new powerbook a week from now. Someone in my office mentioned something about Apple Up To Date program or something with a similar name. It supposedly allows you to get new stuff (such as an operating system) that you would have gotten if you had bought your laptop some amount of time later. Has anyone used this before? If so, how much did it cost to get Jaguar with it? The page is down now, so I can't look. Just curious. If it's only $30 bucks, it would be worth it for having the laptop the extra month.

[Powerbook G5]

Mmm...15" AlBook and Panther...match made in heaven? I'd say so! :D

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Mmm...15" AlBook and Panther...match made in heaven? I'd say so! :D

Until 6 months from now, when you're wanting a laptop that matches your username.

[Cheetah]

I ordered a Ti-book from the university bookstore on 7/31. The shipping day was originally 8/1. Then it was delayed to 8/8 and then 8/11. I went to the bookstore today and the staff said apple told him now the powerbook will not be shipped anytime before 8/19. Clearly something is up next tuesday!

The ti-book was a great deal, 15.2' 1GHz model for $2035 with 3 years of Applecare. I am worry I cannot get the same deal when something new has come, but maybe with a little bit more money I can have a much cooler laptop.

We'll see......

[tizza]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
My PowerBook doesn't seem to get very hot, either, but it seemed to have warped the wooden table I usually have it sitting on...not sure how!

he he ...

Actually that is one thing I really hope they have corrected in the new batch of PB's - heat problems... as well as course more speed, thinner, backlit, more memory, L3 cache, FW 800, ... ;)

[shecky]

can anyone speak from experience on the following subjects, assuming Apple makes an "available now" type announcement on Tuesday:

1. is it worth me, as another post said above, sitting by the laptop waiting untill the second the release the new PB to place an order online? If i wait a day or 2 do you think it would really make much of a difference in terms of when i get the unit? I guess what i am asking is, historically, when they release a new product that is said to be available "now" how soon do i need to order to get it immideatly before the shelves are empty?

2. Barring the above question, I have every intention of going to my nearest Apple store in Cambridge, MA to pick up my PB (after a call to make sure it is there of course) Can anyone offer an opinion of the Apple stores themselves getting product in a timely manner? i know CompUSA, etc, usually takes a long time to get product in. I assume the Apple stores themselves are quick to get in "available now" products? Are they near the same timeline as the actual Online stores?

[vrapan]

Has anyone used this before? If so, how much did it cost to get Jaguar with it? The page is down now, so I can't look. Just curious. If it's only $30 bucks, it would be worth it for having the laptop the extra month.

Jaguar costed 20$ for systems that were sold up to 4 weeks before the jag release ( i am not sure if it was 4 weeks or 30 days but something like that)

[mvc]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Mmm...15" AlBook and Panther...match made in heaven? I'd say so! :D

Yep, and at this rate you'll be dead and presumably in heaven before you get either.

Unless of course you have been very very bad, in which case you might get sent to DELL! :p

[Powerbook G5]

Nooooo, not DELL!!!

[sacrilicious]

I've sat here trying to think of something clever that rhymes with being in limbo, but I'm stumped.

So, all signs point to the 19th, or are they just selling too many PowerBooks to keep them in stock and Moto is slow as usual? I want to believe, too, but I'm worried.

[Powerbook G5]

We shall all know come next week...

[sanford]

Originally posted by shecky
I assume the Apple stores themselves are quick to get in "available now" products? Are they near the same timeline as the actual Online stores?

If it's "shipping now" it will be probably be at least a few days before the Apple Store will get them in stock; and likely a few days before the online Apple Store will actually ship an order.

If it's "available immediately", often the new product has shipped in advance to retail Apple Stores and can be purchased that same day. If not, my experience has been that the Apple Store will put you on a hold list and call you when the item arrives so you have first right of refusal.

Supposing new PowerBooks are introduced next Tuesday, it remains to be seen if Apple will "announce" the new notebooks or ship them. If it's just an announcement, actual product may be delayed for a few days, or even as long as six weeks. Perhaps the new 12s will be available immediately, the 17s in two weeks, and 15s in a month. You see what I mean.

Also, it's far from a foregone conclusion that Apple will do anything next Tuesday. The shipping delay of current 15s until 19th August is certainly notable, but it depends on how you're interpreting the data. It could be numerous rumor sources indicate the 19th and the shipping delay supports the interpretation of this day as an announcement date. Or it could be that numerous reports of shipping delays until 19th August have spawned rumors that new PowerBooks will be announced on that day.

While it's always fun to see what Apple is announcing, I do find myself so much more serene on those occasions when I've neither recently bought nor am I planning to buy a new Mac.

[yopro213]

Am I the only one that wants to see the 12 inch go widescreen?

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I could only wish...but with heat issues, 2x seems to be the more optimistic expectation...4x would be dreaming!

One thing to keep in mind. Some people have reported greater success (meaning fewer errors) burning DVDs at 1x--even with 2x media and 2x drives. If time is not critical, IMO its best to burn at 1x--to reduce the risk of a coaster.

[rdowns]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sacrilicious
[B]I've sat here trying to think of something clever that rhymes with being in limbo, but I'm stumped.


Bimbo?

[sanford]

Originally posted by rdowns
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sacrilicious
[B]I've sat here trying to think of something clever that rhymes with being in limbo, but I'm stumped.


Bimbo?

Akimbo?

[kwajo.com]

Originally posted by sanford
Akimbo?

apparently this has turned into "Ye Olde Rhyming Thread" oh well, I am game:

There once was a rich man named Jobs
Who left the Powerbooks on a Log
He sent them adrift
The consumers were mift
And pondered the rumors 'til Tuesday

[vniow]

Originally posted by yopro213
Am I the only one that wants to see the 12 inch go widescreen?

Nope, I really like this little Sony sub-portable, 10.6" widescreen with 1280x768 resolution, a built-in optical drive (very rare among true subportables) all weighing just 3.11lbs, too bad it doesn't run OSX...

http://www.sonystyle.com/intershoproot/eCS/Store/en/imagesProducts/250x250/PCGTR1A.jpg

[Powerbook G5]

I've always found Sony to have some sexy designs, but they are always plagued by two things: reliability issues and having to run Windows.

[raj]

It'll be next week. Big things have always happened while I'm on vacation. :)

[sanford]

Originally posted by kwajo.com
There once was a rich man named Jobs
Who left the Powerbooks on a Log
He sent them adrift
The consumers were mift
And pondered the rumors 'til Tuesday

Oh, bravo!

[voicegy]

Yessss!!! Too much was going on back in May when I was asked to budget out some purchases at work, including a new PowerBook for myself. Just today the department director said that "...we're ready now, budget-wise, to do some ordering, so compile what you want and I'll sign it."

I KNEW there was a reason I didn't get around to it today. I think I'll get around to it...say...next Tuesday?

SIGN THIS!:D

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by voicegy
SIGN THIS!:D

Jealousy doesn't begin to cover it...

AppleMatt

[SpeedRacr26]

sorry to break it to you guys but today the roosevelt field apple store just recieved shipments of 12, 15, and 17 in powerbooks!...and im proud to announce i have finally made the switch while typin this on my 17in dream machine

[vwcruisn]

Originally posted by SpeedRacr26
sorry to break it to you guys but today the roosevelt field apple store just recieved shipments of 12, 15, and 17 in powerbooks!...and im proud to announce i have finally made the switch while typin this on my 17in dream machine

congrats, its an awesome machine.. ive had mine for over a month now.. im lovin it!

[kwajo.com]

Originally posted by sanford
Oh, bravo!

thank you kindly, that was my creative spurt for the day

[ryaxnb]

Originally posted by vrapan
If you are talking about the 12" PB and not the 12" iBook then it does not have only 16MB RAM it has 32
The 12" iBook also has 32MB VRAM according to Apple's tech specs.

[Powerbook G5]

I know the updated PowerBooks would probably keep the current video cards, but wouldn't it be sweet if they had ATI 9600 with 64/128 megs DDR RAM? :) It seems like it's a known fact that they will top out at 1.33 GHz, have possibly bigger HDs, at least standard 512 megs RAM, 1x/possible 2x superdrive, BT, FW800, etc...but no one seems to say much about the gfx card.

[Billicus]

I will bow to the gods of Cupertino if this comes true...:eek:

[jcgerm]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I know the updated PowerBooks would probably keep the current video cards, but wouldn't it be sweet if they had ATI 9600 with 64/128 megs DDR RAM? :) It seems like it's a known fact that they will top out at 1.33 GHz, have possibly bigger HDs, at least standard 512 megs RAM, 1x/possible 2x superdrive, BT, FW800, etc...but no one seems to say much about the gfx card.

If they don't upgrade the graphics card then they're making a huge mistake. A Geforce 4 Go or Radeon 9000 isn't top of the line anymore.

[Powerbook G5]

I figure it will most likely be the newer GeForce FX since Apple is sticking with nVidia lately, but an ATI 9600 would be so sweet!

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by yopro213
Am I the only one that wants to see the 12 inch go widescreen?

yes.

[Squire]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
My PowerBook doesn't seem to get very hot, either, but it seemed to have warped the wooden table I usually have it sitting on...not sure how!

My notebook warped my table, too- not because of heat but because of the weight of the damn thing. (It's old.)

Saving my pennies for the next big upgrade.

Squire

[mim]

Originally posted by yopro213
Am I the only one that wants to see the 12 inch go widescreen?

yes, that would be called the 15" TiBook now wouldn't it :D

can you really imagine letterboxing the 12" screen? May as well get a pda, and turn it on it's side. Some of us like being able to actually work on a laptop.

edit: (oh - wonderboy, props to you. sorry i didn't get to your post before replying).

[Powerbook G5]

I personally want a 15" AlBook to come out.

[coumerelli]

Originally posted by jaedreth
Can anyone confirm this?

Come on! If I were in any sort of production business, and I only had 20% yield on my production, my buyers would tar and feather me, as well as switch to someone else.

That must mean there are some serious technological issues with their fabs, if only 20% of the chips on any given wafer work...

And can't they compensate by creating more wafers faster?

Jaedreth

In my best 'Coach Z' impression... eh hem... "I'm glard you eh, sade, er em brat this up" [/impression]

Listen fellas (and ladies), "my buyers would tar and feather me, AS WELL AS SWITCH TO SOMEONE ELSE?!?" Isn't this how we now have IBM 970's (The G5)? Smoker-ola has lost Apple's business.

I may catch some flack or something, but even though Steve said no 970 powerbooks now, he DID say the 'year of the notebook' - And to me, it's either/or, not both. The only 'sure' hint we had for the G5's was the 'premature specification' (...and I still laugh everytime I see that phrase :p ) - so what's to stop Steve-o from surprising us again with a G5 or (gasp!) Dual Procs in a PB? - furthermore, our (rumored) guesses on the specs for the G5's were way off. Remember?

I don't know, but I think they've got something that we haven't even talked about.

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I've always found Sony to have some sexy designs, but they are always plagued by two things: reliability issues and having to run Windows.

That's where Linux comes in. :)

[Powerbook G5]

I almost put Linux on my PC before I switched to Apple, but I had too many hardware issues and then the cable modem wasn't supported in addition to a few other things and just gave up and started looking at Apple as an alternative...needless to say I was more than impressed and years later here Apple is now with full Unix support!

[chomsky]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I know the updated PowerBooks would probably keep the current video cards, but wouldn't it be sweet if they had ATI 9600 with 64/128 megs DDR RAM? :) It seems like it's a known fact that they will top out at 1.33 GHz, have possibly bigger HDs, at least standard 512 megs RAM, 1x/possible 2x superdrive, BT, FW800, etc...but no one seems to say much about the gfx card.

I wouldn't buy one without an upgraded Vid Card... The Geforce4 is quite long in the tooth, a GeforceFX is the minimum offering now for a modern laptop, and ideally they will offer the ATI 9600, at least for the 17" PB. That would be ideal, because ATI has far better linux support on PPC hardware than nvidia (and I definitely intend on running linux on this baby)

[Powerbook G5]

Apple better not make the best stuff available only to the 17" like currently...the 15" should have the same features and yes, I hope that it will have the ATI 9600...it just seems like Apple is focused on nVidia lately for whatever reason...

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I almost put Linux on my PC before I switched to Apple, but I had too many hardware issues and then the cable modem wasn't supported in addition to a few other things and just gave up and started looking at Apple as an alternative...needless to say I was more than impressed and years later here Apple is now with full Unix support!

Heh, when was this? Linux hardware support (and, indeed, pretty much everything Linux) has come MILES in the past year or so. For me, it's gone from being something to tinker with to my everyday desktop OS.

Of course, Mac OS X is pretty nice too. ;)
Can't wait for my PB to ship (updated or otherwise)

[Powerbook G5]

It was 4 years ago...I know, nearly a lifetime as far as computers go.

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
It was 4 years ago...I know, nearly a lifetime as far as computers go.

I hear ya.

Yeah, I messed with Linux 4 years ago and it was a real pain in the butt.

Linux has moved farther in that span than any other major OS. At the same time, Linux had by far the most ground to make up and become a major OS. It's getting there. I'm still critical of a number of stumbling blocks with Linux as a everyman user desktop OS, but I'm greatly pleased with the progress.

Hmm, to put this back on-topic... I plan to install Linux alongside OS X on my 12" PowerBook when it ships... on the 19th... hopefully updated!! :D

[Powerbook G5]

I really do hope it'll be updated by then, if I can get it before I leave for school on the 29th I'd be only happy person.

[paulie]

Everytime a thread about PowerBooks starts, people start slagging the poor little 12" PB..

I'm a relative Mac neophyte. Bought my first Mac just over a year ago now, a 600 mhz iBook. What a great laptop that was. So great, ended up adding on an iPod, then an iBook for my GF, then an iPod for her. We were hooked.

When my position changed to need less travel, I sold off the iBook and bought a (brand spanking new at the time) 1Ghz iMac in February.

Now I'm again headed on the road for 3 months to write, and I've sold my iMac and bought a 12" PowerBook. This little machine is nothing short of amazing!

I can hook up a second monitor and work on my documents on a nice big screen when I'm at the office, and when I'm on the train or on the road, it's just as powerful as my iMac was, yet it fits comfortably on my lap. And yes, it even warms me up while it's there.

It's lighter than the iBook, more powerful, and a much sexier machine. To call it an Aluminum iBook just isn't fair. Can your iBook batch-resize all your photos for web-publishing, then burn those images to disk, all in the background while playing Warcraft III (yes, it's serious work!)??

Mine couldn't, but my 12" PowerBook can. It's a little trooper of a machine, and I hope it stays in the line-up for a long time. For those of us really on the go, it's a much better fit than the 15" or 17" machines.

Sorry, just had to step up and defend the little guy. ;)

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by SpeedRacr26
sorry to break it to you guys but today the roosevelt field apple store just recieved shipments of 12, 15, and 17 in powerbooks!...and im proud to announce i have finally made the switch while typin this on my 17in dream machine

I was overly convinced of tuesday's update until reading this thread. Can anyone validate or console me with a possible explanation?

[Powerbook G5]

I am still hoping for updates on the 19th, we can only keep the faith and let time tell, I'm afraid...

[vrapan]

Will nobody stand up?

I did... Twice!!!:D

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by paulie
Mine couldn't, but my 12" PowerBook can. It's a little trooper of a machine, and I hope it stays in the line-up for a long time. For those of us really on the go, it's a much better fit than the 15" or 17" machines.

Sorry, just had to step up and defend the little guy. ;)

Oh, I love the 12" PB too. That's why I ordered one. :)

I'll just be very unhappy if my week (at least) delay is for no reason. I've got rumors of new PBs on the 19th and I've got a PB order delayed to the 19th. 1 + 1 BETTER = 2! :D

[Lori]

Hehe, I definitely agree w/you there. I'd be thrilled if a diff. 12.1" pb config shows up at my door. I'm hoping that 1+1=2, but I'm getting worried about that talk of the one store getting new pb shipments.

Updates seem a relevant reason for the delay, but also the Best Buy sucking all the SD pb's into their stores seems like it could be a relevant reason for the delay too. As has been said plenty of times before, I guess it's just wait and see.

[Powerbook G5]

Well if it doesn't come within the next week, I'll be stuck waiting until Christmas break, so I do hope it will be the magical week...

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by Lori
Hehe, I definitely agree w/you there. I'd be thrilled if a diff. 12.1" pb config shows up at my door. I'm hoping that 1+1=2, but I'm getting worried about that talk of the one store getting new pb shipments.

Ehh, I don't think that report is particularly damning. If anything, it makes me wonder more. There IS stock of 12" PBs left, but they're not shipping it to us, the customers that ordered them.

It may very well be the plan to sell off current 12" PB stock at a lower price, come Tuesday on forward. That has been suggested a lot around here, although I don't think any of the "official" rumors state as such. Still, it's a very logical move.

Updates seem a relevant reason for the delay, but also the Best Buy sucking all the SD pb's into their stores seems like it could be a relevant reason for the delay too.

That is a valid point.
I will note, though, that the rumors of new PowerBooks are coming from so-called "credible" sources, and are NOT a product of these shipment delays. If we were basing this ONLY on the shipment delays, then I would wonder. But it's the combination of the two.

If new PBs are NOT released on Tuesday, then it will mean both that the "credible" rumors were wrong, AND that our shipment delays were due to other stock shortages. So that's two unrelated "hints" that will have to prove wrong. It's still VERY possible that that's true - make no mistake. But to me, it seems at least equally likely to go either way.

[vrapan]

As has been said before the rumors could have been triggered by the shortages so the two wouldn't be unrelated...

[LegionCSUF]

Originally posted by vrapan
As has been said before the rumors could have been triggered by the shortages so the two wouldn't be unrelated...

Gee, I would hope that a "credible" source would be something more substantial than a mere stock shortage!

But, it's true that, since we don't KNOW for sure, it could be true.

[sacrilicious]

Here's to updated PowerBooks!

[CrackedButter]

Why can't Apple have a BTO with both Nvidia and ATI cards for their laptops? Its annoying because you cannot properly choose on the one you want unless its a different model.

Let the customers choose which card they want, i would prefer the ATI 9600 but if the Nvidia 440 is still on spec i'm not going to be happy.

[sanford]

Originally posted by paulie
Sorry, just had to step up and defend the little guy. ;)

Oh, I don't even travel much and I've seriously considered a 12" PB for the basic convenience of moving around with a truly notebook-sized computer with G4 features. Ideally, it would have DVI so I could use it with my Apple Studio flat panel or even a Cinema Display, but I could manage without since I have a desktop Mac.

But I'm still firmly on the fence. Even more so since the driver's side power window on my wife's car went out and we can only guess how much that will cost to repair.

[Squire]

Originally posted by vniow
Nope, I really like this little Sony sub-portable, 10.6" widescreen with 1280x768 resolution, a built-in optical drive (very rare among true subportables) all weighing just 3.11lbs, too bad it doesn't run OSX...

I'd like to see the 12" become the world's smallest full-featured notebook again. I guess it wouldn't be 12 inches then. ;) I think there's a huge market for something that small.

Squire

[vrapan]

Why can't Apple have a BTO with both Nvidia and ATI cards for their laptops? Its annoying because you cannot properly choose on the one you want unless its a different model.

Let the customers choose which card they want, i would prefer the ATI 9600 but if the Nvidia 440 is still on spec i'm not going to be happy.

Well I guess the reason for not having two different options there is cause if I understand it well a GPU from a different company would require a bit of reengineering of the the laptop mobo. In the desktops it is no problem. But in a laptop they tend to be integrated on the motherboard so providing an option between two different graphic chips might not worth the trouble and the price. So I guess they just pick one for a model and that is it. I do hope they pick a better one though for the new models cause the Go chips from Nvidia are underpowered.

[Lori]

I was actually just in Circuit City today buying the camcorder to accompany my new mac. Of course, I couldn't help but take a look around at the PC computers (while also telling the Circuit City guy that they should be an Apple Reseller). The computer that really caught my eye just happened to be that tiny Sony. It was amazing...not as great looking as the PB, but the features, wow. I came to the same conclusion vniow came to, though...it's missing one thing--OSX.

If Apple went as small as a 10.6," yeah, there'd definitely be ppl buying them up. But seeing as there's so many heat problems w/the pb 12" as it is, I doubt they'd ever consider it at this moment. (Which must make one also wonder what's up w/that Sony notebook? Is it gonna get crazy hot too?) (even though the pb's hotness hasn't phased me at all in buying it...i just shrugged my shoulders and said, eh, that's what happens when it's in alluminum casing)

[soggywulf]

Personally...

I'd rather not see an update next week. For a meager 1.3 GHz--thanks, but no thanks. You won't notice much performance difference from the laptops we have now. I'd much rather see a price drop on the existing lineup next week, if anything. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have any FW800 devices. And AE, you should be able to just replace the card in your existing laptop line. No need for a redesign for that.

Instead of Apple working so hard on a redesigned lineup for a weak 1.3 G4, they should have been spending their resources designing a G5 laptop with faster memory. Then they can drop the existing lineup (excepting the 17, of course) to the iBook range. Perhaps this is in fact what they have been doing.

[LegionCSUF]

Well, according to Apple's site, my delayed laptop has gone ahead and shipped. Due to arrive on the 19th. If Apple does in fact update the PBs on the 19th, this sucker's going right back. :) But it definitely doesn't look quite as good to me now.

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Personally...

I'd rather not see an update next week. For a meager 1.3 GHz--thanks, but no thanks... No need for a redesign for that.

Instead of Apple working so hard on a redesigned lineup for a weak 1.3 G4, they should have been spending their resources designing a G5 laptop with faster memory. Then they can drop the existing lineup (excepting the 17, of course) to the iBook range. Perhaps this is in fact what they have been doing.

For you that might be a good plan, but there are several features that the PB line could use to keep sales up. The "redesign" for an update to the 12" and 17" should be easy. If they just up the CPU speed, your talking about swapping a few chips. If they do some other things like add USB 2.0 its still limited to some minor chip swapping.

I can see avoiding adding major things like FW 800, but even that would be a relatively minor change to a motherboard. One option you didn't consider is that Appe could use an update to verify some of the design and manufacturing factors for a G5 laptop.

[Lori]

Wow, can you really ship back BTO ones? (I thought this was a "you build it, you buy it" sort of thing w/no returns)

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by Lori
I guess it's just wait and see.

At least there are enough rumors for MacRumors to drop the buy rating on PBs to DONT BUY. We can all hope.

[vrapan]

the G5 might or might not be ready. I dont think Apple can wait to launch an updated line up after the mobile G5 is ready. It does not make sense unless of course the mobile G5 is due in a few weeks/months and then it does not make sense to create a short lived G4 updated line up but I am don't think that a mobile G5 is anywhere near the horizon. I think the current line up is fine for most users but it does feel "old" compared to the latest PCs. A 300MHz speed increase is an extra 30% extra processor power and if a better graphics card is included and or more L3 cache and more HD i think it is worth the update. As far your decrease in prices the current line up will fall in price even if that means you might have to buy one at eBay.

[vrapan]

Wow, can you really ship back BTO ones? (I thought this was a "you build it, you buy it" sort of thing w/no returns)

I think that is correct... A BTO is not returnable.

[Mikoyan]

Originally posted by LegionCSUF
Well, according to Apple's site, my delayed laptop has gone ahead and shipped. Due to arrive on the 19th. If Apple does in fact update the PBs on the 19th, this sucker's going right back. :) But it definitely doesn't look quite as good to me now.

Mine still hasn't shipped, there's still hope!
The only update I did was to a 60gb drive, does that qualify as a BTO?

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Personally...

I'd rather not see an update next week. For a meager 1.3 GHz--thanks, but no thanks. You won't notice much performance difference from the laptops we have now. I'd much rather see a price drop on the existing lineup next week, if anything. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have any FW800 devices. And AE, you should be able to just replace the card in your existing laptop line. No need for a redesign for that.

The 12" really needs L3 cache more than it needs that extra clock speed-- that's the main reason I'm hoping for an update.

[sanford]

Originally posted by vrapan
I think that is correct... A BTO is not returnable.

Yeah, as far as I know, that's you built it, you bought it on the BTOs. As I remember, it's a little complicated to return stock, standard units to the online Apple Store -- not impossible, but complicated.

And for Mikoyan, yes, a hard drive upgrade is a BTO.

Some of you aren't following the rules: if you buy a Mac and have any propensity to freak out if you don't have the latest and greatest, under no circumstances are you to read anything about Apple for 3-6 months.

Why is it that when HP or Dell releases new, better, faster computers, nobody even notices? I mean you can't even tell the difference between half of the current models, anyway.

[sanford]

Originally posted by sanford
Yeah, as far as I know, that's you built it, you bought it...

Oops, I plagiarized. Oh well, call me Stephen Ambrose.

Anyway, also for Mikoyan, there's apparently some point in the process where you can't even cancel a BTO.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by AllenPSU
For you that might be a good plan, but there are several features that the PB line could use to keep sales up.

None of these little things (USB2, FW800, etc) are really going to help sales--not to objective buyers anyway. What will help sales is a price drop, or a real update. The current models are very long in the tooth, and a 1.3 rev will still be long in the tooth--certainly at existing prices.

[marijn]

@Paulie

Originally posted by paulie
Everytime a thread about PowerBooks starts, people start slagging the poor little 12" PB..

...

Sorry, just had to step up and defend the little guy. ;)

I'll stand up!!

I took all (!) the time to think over (and think over - again) which PB i would purchase, believe me...

The 15'' PB is The wet dream of every demanding user. But, some disadvantages about the 15'' are the price combined with the fact that they actually had to be updated as soon as the 12'' and 17'' were introduced (which makes it the least updated PB in the pipeline).

Considered this, i decided that the 12'' PB will be "The One" for me. Biggest, overwhelming reason was; it's a lotta computer crammed into a small package, a real must-have for those who like to take it with them. Maximum mobility garanteed.

Paulie, i fully agree the PB 12'' is the cutest, smallest and most powerful supercomputer currently offered in such a beautiful package.

I can't wait 'till they start shipping them!!

[AllenPSU]

Originally posted by soggywulf
None of these little things (USB2, FW800, etc) are really going to help sales--not to objective buyers anyway. What will help sales is a price drop, or a real update. The current models are very long in the tooth, and a 1.3 rev will still be long in the tooth--certainly at existing prices.

This objective buyer is holding out for USB 2.0. There are a lot of devices that need USB 2.0. FW 800 is a wash but a slight boost in CPU would also be nice... but your right it not worth holding out for.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by vrapan
the G5 might or might not be ready. I dont think Apple can wait to launch an updated line up after the mobile G5 is ready.

Why wait for a "mobile" G5? An existing 1.0 or 1.2 G5 would probably draw little enough power, certainly compared to the toaster G4 chips we have now. That would give us faster memory as well, which will help matters tremendously.

What I think we are waiting for is not the chip--we are waiting for Apple's G5 laptop motherboard. Which is my point--they should divert all powerbook resources to getting the G5 out.

Originally posted by vrapan
It does not make sense unless of course the mobile G5 is due in a few weeks/months and then it does not make sense to create a short lived G4 updated line up but I am don't think that a mobile G5 is anywhere near the horizon.

I don't see why we cut Apple so much slack. Other manufacturers are able to improve speed in a timely fashion--why can't Apple? The 970 is here, and Apple has had plenty of time to ramp up for it; CPU problems are no longer an excuse. I think the proper timing for a G5 powerbook is by the end of the year, shipping in time for Christmas.

Originally posted by vrapan
I think the current line up is fine for most users

"Fine for most users" should be at an iBook price point, not a powerbook one.

Originally posted by vrapan
A 300MHz speed increase is an extra 30% extra processor power

No it's not. We are still very much hampered and bottlenecked by the bus speed. The larger L3 is not going to make that much of a difference. Performance will be quite similar to the existing models, except maybe a placebo effect. Perhaps some speed increase in QE due to possibly faster graphics hardware, but again not a huge deal.

[Squire]

Originally posted by paulie
Everytime a thread about PowerBooks starts, people start slagging the poor little 12" PB.

I did the exact opposite. I ordered a 12" PB with Superdrive right after they were introduced and when the reseller finally got one in, it had a combo drive. Then, the iMacs were upped to 1GHz and I bought one of them instead.

I think the 12" would be a great machine. In fact, sometimes I wish I had bought one. However, a lot of people claim that it was originally intended to be a G4 iBook and that the difference between an iBook and 12-inch PB is slight.

Be that as it may, I'd still love to have one. It'll be my next Mac.

Squire

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by AllenPSU
This objective buyer is holding out for USB 2.0.

I understand. But I think you will agree that such things should not be delayed for such a long time, or wait for the next CPU upgrade. They should have done a half rev with USB2 and AE and FW800, and saved their design work for the G5. And gradually dropped the prices on the G4's as well.

Of course, I don't know what the production bottleneck is. Perhaps it is just as time-consuming to retool for USB2 as it is to redesign for a G5.

I doubt that last though. Again, other manufacturers are able to upgrade their products in a smoother fashion--Apple should be able to as well.

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by NoPrideELF
I was overly convinced of tuesday's update until reading this thread. Can anyone validate or console me with a possible explanation?

People are getting excited by reports of low inventory. Historically that happened just before introduction of new products, as Apple would stop old production and sell off the leftovers. So if a store just got a large batch of Powerbooks, it contradicts the notion of end of life for these products...

i.e., I think it means next week is too optimistic. Anyway, I'm going on vacation and won't be near the internet to check MacRumors, so for me it actually doesn't really matter.

[uberska]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Personally...

I'd rather not see an update next week. For a meager 1.3 GHz--thanks, but no thanks. You won't notice much performance difference from the laptops we have now. I'd much rather see a price drop on the existing lineup next week, if anything. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have any FW800 devices. And AE, you should be able to just replace the card in your existing laptop line. No need for a redesign for that.

Instead of Apple working so hard on a redesigned lineup for a weak 1.3 G4, they should have been spending their resources designing a G5 laptop with faster memory. Then they can drop the existing lineup (excepting the 17, of course) to the iBook range. Perhaps this is in fact what they have been doing.

You are clearly not a fan of the 15 inch powerbooks. I'm a linux guy about to make the switch. The only reason I didn't buy the 15 inch a few weeks ago was that it NEEDS to be upgraded desperately. One of the biggest bottlenecks of a computer is the RAM. It's still running PC133 SDRAM, while the 12 inch has DDR 266 and the 17 inch has DDR 333. That's what I'm waiting for. If it has DDR 400 when upgraded (which isn't even the newest right now, they have DDR 500 i've heard ), the RAM will be 3 times as fast! You can't argue with that. This would be a major speed enhancer. I agree though, the other stuff will be icing on the cake, but not necessarily a selling point. G5 laptops won't come out until 2nd quarter next year (at the minimum), so they need to upgrade the 15s in the meantime. Pretty please, Apple?

[CrackedButter]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Personally...

I'd rather not see an update next week. For a meager 1.3 GHz--thanks, but no thanks. You won't notice much performance difference from the laptops we have now. I'd much rather see a price drop on the existing lineup next week, if anything. I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly don't have any FW800 devices. And AE, you should be able to just replace the card in your existing laptop line. No need for a redesign for that.

Instead of Apple working so hard on a redesigned lineup for a weak 1.3 G4, they should have been spending their resources designing a G5 laptop with faster memory. Then they can drop the existing lineup (excepting the 17, of course) to the iBook range. Perhaps this is in fact what they have been doing.

I would love the things that don't seem to interest you. I plan to keep the laptop for at least 3-4 years. Over those years i can purchase those FW800 drives and DVD writers, move on up to wireless internet and so forth. But this depends on the user of course. I'm coming from a G3 800 iBook so i will see an increase won't i?

[sanford]

Originally posted by uberska
It's still running PC133 SDRAM, while the 12 inch has DDR 266 and the 17 inch has DDR 333.

Some techie help me out here, but isn't DDR RAM in G4 Macs mainly window dressing, as the G4 processor doesn't properly support DDR RAM and the system buses aren't fast enough to move data in and out of the RAM quick enough to take advantage of the extra speed?

[sanford]

Originally posted by CrackedButter
...move on up to wireless internet and so forth...

Long before broadband Internet connections can take advantage of Airport Extreme, there will be another, faster WiFi standard. AE is more a local area network solution than a faster way to access the Internet from a typical home broadband connection.

[vrapan]

You are correct the current G4 "speaks" to the memory in non-ddr terms. The move was made because DDR chips tend to be the norm and therefore it could get harder and / or more expensive to find quality SDRAM chips. Other than that the G4 does not support DDR. I heard that the new G4 though the 7457 if I am right might actually support DDR RAM but I am not sure at all about that.

[Bruja]

Originally posted by curious-au
http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~alana/images/pbook-iwtb.jpg Ahh, a kindred spirit! Cooool Picture... :D

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by uberska
It's still running PC133 SDRAM, while the 12 inch has DDR 266 and the 17 inch has DDR 333. That's what I'm waiting for.

You are missing the vital point that the bus on the powerbooks is limited to a paltry 167 MHz (or is it 133?). That means, even if you put DDR500 in the machines, the processor will only access the RAM at 167 MHz. It's like draining a 2-meter oil pipeline with your kitchen faucet.

So, in other words, the "speed boost" that is rumored for next week is not going to significantly speed up the 15, or the 12 or the 17.

Unless they go G5, that is. :)

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by CrackedButter
I would love the things that don't seem to interest you. I plan to keep the laptop for at least 3-4 years. Over those years i can purchase those FW800 drives and DVD writers, move on up to wireless internet and so forth.

I agree that these things should be in a laptop. But as I said, this stuff does not justify the absurd cost that they are demanding. For example, better wireless internet (airport extreme) is just a matter of swapping out a card. FW800 and USB are probably pretty simple alterations as well. Keeping the powerbooks at their current prices for just these things (and a very minor speed bump) is pretty ridiculous.

Furthermore, if you are planning on keeping your laptop for 3-4 years, you will miss the speed of the G5. The difference between G5 and G4 (considering bus differences also) will make much more of a difference in the long term than FW800 (which is what, after all--an extra 50MB/sec for your DVD burner and camcorder, which can't even use the extra speed!). Yeah, I know--if you have more stuff on the FW chain, the extra 50 comes in handy; but I maintain that this is far less significant than the G5. Even today a 1 GHz single G4 is painfully slow when running a couple apps at once (IMO). Imagine what that will feel like 4 years from now.

Originally posted by CrackedButter
I'm coming from a G3 800 iBook so i will see an increase won't i?

You certainly will. That doesn't mean you should have to pay such high prices. A Honda Civic is much faster than a Trabant. That doesn't mean you should spend US$50,000 on one.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by sanford
Some techie help me out here, but isn't DDR RAM in G4 Macs mainly window dressing, as the G4 processor doesn't properly support DDR RAM and the system buses aren't fast enough to move data in and out of the RAM quick enough to take advantage of the extra speed?

That is correct.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by sanford
Long before broadband Internet connections can take advantage of Airport Extreme, there will be another, faster WiFi standard. AE is more a local area network solution than a faster way to access the Internet from a typical home broadband connection.

Hmm, I don't know about that. I agree that AE (11g) won't be any faster than airport (11b) to access the internet, at current residential access speeds. But 54Mbps is pretty damn good--I don't know if that will get any better by the time we get cheap fiber to the home. 802.11 has to remain in the unlicensed spectrum, and it seems to me that schemes for maximizing throughput given the radio bandwidth have been fairly well developed at this point.

But, who knows.

[vrapan]

I was reading an article and they were saying that the actual speed of AE (802.11g) is around the 20-24MB and not even close to the 54MB.

[CrackedButter]

Originally posted by soggywulf
I agree that these things should be in a laptop. But as I said, this stuff does not justify the absurd cost that they are demanding. For example, better wireless internet (airport extreme) is just a matter of swapping out a card. FW800 and USB are probably pretty simple alterations as well. Keeping the powerbooks at their current prices for just these things (and a very minor speed bump) is pretty ridiculous.

Furthermore, if you are planning on keeping your laptop for 3-4 years, you will miss the speed of the G5. The difference between G5 and G4 (considering bus differences also) will make much more of a difference in the long term than FW800 (which is what, after all--an extra 50MB/sec for your DVD burner and camcorder, which can't even use the extra speed!). Yeah, I know--if you have more stuff on the FW chain, the extra 50 comes in handy; but I maintain that this is far less significant than the G5. Even today a 1 GHz single G4 is painfully slow when running a couple apps at once (IMO). Imagine what that will feel like 4 years from now.

You certainly will. That doesn't mean you should have to pay such high prices. A Honda Civic is much faster than a Trabant. That doesn't mean you should spend US$50,000 on one.

Yeah you have a point, i didn't realise. Here's hoping to a G5.

[sanford]

Originally posted by soggywulf
But 54Mbps is pretty damn good--I don't know if that will get any better by the time we get cheap fiber to the home.

I'll admit I overstated my scope of knowledge about wireless networking protocols when I wrote "long before". You are probably correct that faster connections to the home will be distributed sooner than faster WiFi is developed.

As vrapan wrote that the real-world speeds of AE are about half the specification, I've also read that practical speeds of Airport 802.11b are little more than half the specification: about 6 Mbps. In theory, I would probably be ecstatic if my home network connection approached the practical limits of 802.11b. But in reality -- unless we reach the point where DVD quality movies are sold over the Internet and can be recorded on a medium suitable for playback on a television via a standard DVD player -- I probably wouldn't notice the difference. For work and recreation, I do little more than Web and e-mail, and do not download much more than software updates. My mother has a 3Mbps cable connection that seems to operate on average at 1.5 - 2Mbps. I have 768kbps DSL. And I can't tell the difference between her connection and mine, since apparently their are many other factors -- such as remote server connection speed -- that affect Web performance. Safari gave me more of a speed boost than upgrading my broadband connection would have.

Since I do use my iDisk for back-up, I'd get more benefit out of a higher upload speed cap than I would a faster download connection.

[MightyB]

Originally posted by paulie
Everytime a thread about PowerBooks starts, people start slagging the poor little 12" PB..

I'm a relative Mac neophyte. Bought my first Mac just over a year ago now, a 600 mhz iBook. What a great laptop that was. So great, ended up adding on an iPod, then an iBook for my GF, then an iPod for her. We were hooked.

When my position changed to need less travel, I sold off the iBook and bought a (brand spanking new at the time) 1Ghz iMac in February.

Now I'm again headed on the road for 3 months to write, and I've sold my iMac and bought a 12" PowerBook. This little machine is nothing short of amazing!

I can hook up a second monitor and work on my documents on a nice big screen when I'm at the office, and when I'm on the train or on the road, it's just as powerful as my iMac was, yet it fits comfortably on my lap. And yes, it even warms me up while it's there.

It's lighter than the iBook, more powerful, and a much sexier machine. To call it an Aluminum iBook just isn't fair. Can your iBook batch-resize all your photos for web-publishing, then burn those images to disk, all in the background while playing Warcraft III (yes, it's serious work!)??

Mine couldn't, but my 12" PowerBook can. It's a little trooper of a machine, and I hope it stays in the line-up for a long time. For those of us really on the go, it's a much better fit than the 15" or 17" machines.

Sorry, just had to step up and defend the little guy. ;)


DITTO!!!!!!!!!

[sanford]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Even today a 1 GHz single G4 is painfully slow when running a couple apps at once (IMO). Imagine what that will feel like 4 years from now.

This speed perception is so dependent on what one does with one's computer. On the one hand, Apple has a lot of video/graphics professionals demanding a lot of raw power in their hardware. On the other hand, many professional writers and students use Macs, as well as home users that have no specific demands on system performance.

I used to write for the video game industry, requiring me to own a fast (at the time) gaming PC. It is still, I believe, a fairly formidable PC -- 2GHz Pentium 4, RDRAM, GeForce 4 Titanium, fast system bus, etc. Unfortunately, I don't really play games recreationally, and now that I've left the industry, it's sort of a large, blue object that serves no particular purpose. But, while I did use it on a regular basis, I noticed no appreciable difference in performance for basic tasks when compared with my Quicksilver 867Mhz Mac or even my 667Mhz TiBook. I suspect that if I compared games side-by-side or did something intensive in Photoshop I might see anywhere from a noticeable to significant difference, but as it is, my slower Mac isn't slower to me at all.

I tend to want a new Mac for design features -- call it the Zen-factor or whatever -- long before I come close to *needing* a new Mac. For example, right now, I'm tempted by the 12" PowerBook, although by technical specifications it would be less powerful than my desktop Mac and has a smaller screen than my TiBook. iMacs, too, are tempting because of their elegance of form.