Microsoft and OD2 Launch European Music Service [Archive]

DTphonehome

Aug 13, 2003, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by G4scott
Apple hasn't lost the market share yet.

You won't know if Apple's lost the market share until you see sales figures from this new service.

I still believe that many people are holding out for the iTunes Music Store because they know that it'll be good, and easy to use.

Besides, Apple has the iPod market share.

If Apple waits more than 2 months from now, though, they most likely will have missed the boat, but I don't think that's going to happen.

Besides, competition is good. It make Apple's service look better.

I agree that iTMS is a far better service, and will be way better than the competition for a while. But, we use macs because they are "good and easy to use", but it seems 95% of the world doesn't really care about that. They want compatibility, and Apple doesn't have it. This was just poorly thought out. Apple made the music download business a reality, and now they're letting all the buzzards swoop in and take over.

coolfactor

Aug 13, 2003, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by DTphonehome
I agree that iTMS is a far better service, and will be way better than the competition for a while. But, we use macs because they are "good and easy to use", but it seems 95% of the world doesn't really care about that. They want compatibility, and Apple doesn't have it. This was just poorly thought out. Apple made the music download business a reality, and now they're letting all the buzzards swoop in and take over.

We've all heard that competition is good, which it is. I'm curious why people think we all have to fish out of the same pond. Why does the iTMS have to be the only bar in town? It doesn't. The market is constantly changing, so whether the Windows version launched in April or launches in December is irrelevant. The important thing is that people are using it. And people will use it whether it's the only one or one of a dozen. Why? Because it'll be the best!

nagromme

Aug 13, 2003, 10:21 PM

"fed up with poorly thought out Apple products/services"

I think the barriers overseas are legal ones.

bobindashadows

Aug 13, 2003, 10:24 PM

Apple's policies...

I don't remember, but I bet a lot of people were saying this same thing when the iPod came out only for Mac, and Apple took their sweet little time making it for PC. Frankly... I think it was a dumb move back then, and it's a dumb move now, when I am fairly confident that they could've created and released iTMS for Windows this month. Granted, iTunes is Cocoa now (I believe), but still, that long to port an mp3 player? Nobody is going to buy a Mac for iTMS, like some iPod people did. Pretty interesting situation. I just want Apple to release it ASAP instead of keeping it back. I bet they'll regain the market share, at least a significant portion of it. You'll always have peecee weenies (no offense, to any on this board) that will go "it's made by apple so it suxxxx! it suxxxxx! It suxxxxx! it SUXXXX!!111@@11! OMG WTF LOL (I've had weenies really think if they say it enough it'll be true)

rainman::|:|

Aug 13, 2003, 10:29 PM

*sigh*

i really liked iTMS, too.

sad to see it dye because it couldn't get off the ground in time.

Why the hell Apple started the iTMS before they had windows or overseas markets eludes me, I mean they had to know it was going to start a wildfire... You could have predicted right off the bat that several companies would rush products to the table, and that MS would buy a service and rename it ".net" or "msn".

pnw

theipodgod16

Aug 13, 2003, 10:30 PM

Well SJ said it himself, (not that we have to be told this) "itunes for windows will be out by the end of the year, its a little behind schedule, windows is harder to program for."

Now imagaine that combined with the limitations of international laws, pertaining to music and DRM. Thats a helluva task for them to undertake. Since Micro$oft dominates the european computer market even more than in the us, it should be no surprise that M$ is the first out of the gate overseas. Not all hope is lost though my friends, as we all know that the more time taken, the better the product. (Especially when it is apple that is taking the time to create, think powerbook updates, IMS International/windows.....) Dont worry!:cool:

Stella

Aug 13, 2003, 10:34 PM

Serves Apple right if they become a minor player in online music distribution. Apple should have realised that supporting the rest of the world is just as important as the US.

I know part of it was to do with licensing issues with music companies. However, the majority of music companies are multi national and apple should have pushed harder to get international agreements, whilst working on the US agreements.

If other companies can negatiate these things, so can Apple.

Maybe this will encourage Apple to rollout international support faster... and get the negogations moving along quicker.

Apple will be pushed into the background as more companies get on the (NON US) online music distribution bandwagon.

Who cares if ITMS is easier to use - thats means bugger all if its not available in your country OR your computer.

Consumer loyalties don't last long if their needs aren't met.

Apple && international == consistent dragging of heels.

weev

Aug 13, 2003, 10:53 PM

May the best service win.

Noble sentiment, yes, especially since Apple's competitors are excluding the iPod and at the same time immitating Apple.

Dammit! Die MicroSoft. Die!

Is BuyMusic dead yet?

DGFan

Aug 13, 2003, 10:55 PM

It's the kind of thinking demonstrated in this thread that caused the internet gold rush. Everyone back then thought that by putting up a site and staking their claim that they were getting something tangible. Marketshare isn't property.

Timing is important. But having a good brand and a good product are much, much more important. Apple has both and it will be able to wield them effectively when the product is finally released.

But to listen to you folks one would think that Apple is run by idiots who sit on their hands all day. Give me a break.

noel4r

Aug 13, 2003, 10:58 PM

apple = brilliant ideas, poor execution, if only they released iTMS both in Mac and Windows at the same time, they wont have to play catch up now.

bennetsaysargh

Aug 13, 2003, 11:02 PM

i think this calls for a midnight release of iTMS for windows and overseas!
oops. a little late. how about midnight cupertino time?:p

Mudbug

Aug 13, 2003, 11:04 PM

a bad execution of a poor rendition of a good product, while brought out early, does not a good product make. I'm sure this new "threat" from M$ will have just as much horrific impact as BuyMusic.com has had on the market. iTMS does it right, and it's just a matter of time until the legalities of the issues are worked out to allow iTMS to go worldwide.

Hope the folks in europe like the taste of viruses as much as americans...

mim

Aug 13, 2003, 11:06 PM

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Yes, it's a MicroSoft 1.0 product.

Well, seeing as they're providing the jukebox software, it's kinda a MS 9.0 release - which doesn't mean it's a terribly good piece of software, but you can be sure

a) the drm be frustrating for your average user,
b) it will have the awful windows preschool lollypop colour scheme,
c) people (mindless windows users...) will be familiar and happy with the way it works.

Only one?It'll be under a MicroSoft EULA, so you have NONE.

At the moment it's quite easy to convert a wma (even drm'd ones) directly to a mp3. Somehow I doubt MS will be alerting their customers to this method gaining "fair use" out of their purchaces.

Stella

Aug 13, 2003, 11:09 PM

Once Microsoft gets in noise into something and bundles it with the OS, the game is almost up.

Windows users typically don't go looking for things if its bundled with their OS - take IE, Hotmail, Outlook etc etc.

Why should they go looking for software when its right in front of their noses... they'll except any bag of sh?t software - ( IE, outlook etc etc)

I'm afraid that unless Apple do some very serious advertising once the Windows (IF) and worldwide ITMS becomes available, ITMS will be relegated to the status of something like QuickTime.... barely used amongst the Windows lemmings.

Nermal

Aug 13, 2003, 11:11 PM

Windows Media 9 users can access the new digital services by clicking on a link on the player.

Has anyone been able to find this link? I'm on a PC with WiMP 9 and don't see a link anywhere.

DGFan

Aug 13, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by mim

c) people (mindless windows users...) will be familiar and happy with the way it works.

Take a closer look at who actually spends the most money on music. They are younger and hipper people. Ie. the same demographic responsible for most of the downloads now.

I don't think Apple needs to worry about losing out on the retirees looking to update their Barry Manilow collection.

Phazer80s

Aug 13, 2003, 11:20 PM

Competition is a GOOD thing. Bring it on!!!

Music services like Microsoft's, the new Napster and *cringe* even BuyMusic's will discourage any complacency Apple may feel from the iTMS' initial success.

Apple's got to to be a more aggressive competitor. It's hardware prices are absurd considering the PC market at large. They need to keep the value of their software high, and the iTMS can't be excluded from the effort.

The iTMS is a great service but it's not perfect. Aside from its limited availability, the inconsistent sound quality is my biggest gripe. I'd like to see the lesser-quality tracks reduced in price.

On the iTMS, most tracks originally released before the mid-1990s have a flaky, wavering sound more recent releases don't have. Compare an old album remastered after the early-1990s against the original release on the iTMS (given both versions are available there) and you'll see what I mean. It seems to be a problem with the AAC encoding. The 'flakiness' sounds like digital compression artifacts. It's like Apple encoded albums released before the mid-1990s at something around 90 kbps, not 128kbps. It's not the same as comparing an original-release CD with a remastered version. With CDs, it's usually a difference in dynamic range; the old release usually sounds more muffled than the new one. It's a 'different difference' on the iTMS. But enough about that... ;)

We can't yet say how the iTMS' competitors will compare. Aside from the larger advertised selections, they might be crap. But they're bound to do some things right. And if Apple improves its Music Store because of the competition, it's all the better for us!

PS--who'll be the first to offer their service to Canada?

DGFan

Aug 13, 2003, 11:20 PM

Originally posted by Stella
Once Microsoft gets in noise into something and bundles it with the OS, the game is almost up.

Windows users typically don't go looking for things if its bundled with their OS - take IE, Hotmail, Outlook etc etc.

Why should they go looking for software when its right in front of their noses... they'll except any bag of sh?t software - ( IE, outlook etc etc)

I'm afraid that unless Apple do some very serious advertising once the Windows (IF) and worldwide ITMS becomes available, ITMS will be relegated to the status of something like QuickTime.... barely used amongst the Windows lemmings.

What's the advantage of Quicktime? Virtually nil for all practical purposes.

Many here think there are major advantages to iTMS. If users see that, it won't be a major issue that WMP is bundled. If, on the other hand, MS comes out with a killer product that is *almost* as good as iTunes and iTMS (great software, great store, great usage rights) then they probably will grab the majority of the market share.

bobindashadows

Aug 13, 2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by mim
Well, seeing as they're providing the jukebox software, it's kinda a MS 9.0 release - which doesn't mean it's a terribly good piece of software, but you can be sure

a) the drm be frustrating for your average user,
b) it will have the awful windows preschool lollypop colour scheme,
c) people (mindless windows users...) will be familiar and happy with the way it works.

At the moment it's quite easy to convert a wma (even drm'd ones) directly to a mp3. Somehow I doubt MS will be alerting their customers to this method gaining "fair use" out of their purchaces.
I actually had quite a difficult time doing just that back during the school year. A buddy of mine needed a wma of "Return of the Mack" converted to mp3 - I spent an hour and a half downloading conversion tools, but since each one was based off of WMP stuff, it refused to convert it due to DRM. I then moved it to my G4, and converted it in 2 minutes...

Was there something I missed?

NavyIntel007

Aug 13, 2003, 11:38 PM

WAKE THE ---- UP APPLE!!!!

At least get the party started in Canada!

I didn't know smart people could be so dumb.

dekator

Aug 13, 2003, 11:40 PM

A product/service needs customer awareness. If M$ start their online à la carte service first, it could be that, by the time iTunes for Windows is ready, nobody really notices. Well, okay, maybe people will but Apple needs to get there soon.
And don't get me started on European services... 'Think Apple is run by idiots'. Not exactly, but they do make some idiotical decisions at times, or have made.
Apple is one of the few American brands that has a very (nearly wholly) positive connotation with it in Europe. And what do they do? **** us in the face all the time. Stupidity, pure stupidity.

edenwaith

Aug 14, 2003, 12:03 AM

I'm so sick of M$ trying to put its filthy hands into EVERYONE'S pockets. Another company comes up with an idea which might make some money, M$ decides to make its own crappy version. I finally took a brief look at M$'s movie making software...so what? I've pretty much never used iMovie either and don't see it as that critical of an application, yet M$ decided that if Apple is doing it, then they should, too. Same again with this music service crap. I was reflecting today that perhaps if M$ had been split up, then perhaps a separate company making just Windows would be able to concentrate all of its time in just improving the OS instead of trying to spread itself out as thinly as possible.

tizza

Aug 14, 2003, 12:16 AM

Let's not forget that because Apple was the first to market, they probably hold some imporatant patents in the area of online, legal music puchasing. You can't just get around patents overnight. I work for Canon, and it took Canon years after Xerox brought out the first photocopier to bring one out themselves as they had to get around all Xerox's patents.

Let's give Apple a chance here!

merges

Aug 14, 2003, 01:00 AM

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
WAKE THE ---- UP APPLE!!!!

At least get the party started in Canada!

I didn't know smart people could be so dumb.

Honestly, do you think that Apple, who carefully recruits literally many of the top, innovate talents in engineering, marketing, design, and dozens of other fields, doesn't know what's going on?

I can't believe how incredibly naive many of the folks on this board seem to be... Issues like international and Windows availability of the iTMS are discussed here as if Apple hasn't been thinking about them in depth for months, certainly well before there were even *rumours* of the service.

To those of you complaining about Apple's strategy: If you're so brilliant, go ahead and start an electronic music distribution service, on Mac OS X and Windows, internationally. Your comments belie little understanding of the actual details and complexities of executing a service like this, but then again, maybe you're right. Prove it.

xtekdiver

Aug 14, 2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by coolfactor
We've all heard that competition is good, which it is. I'm curious why people think we all have to fish out of the same pond. Why does the iTMS have to be the only bar in town? It doesn't. The market is constantly changing, so whether the Windows version launched in April or launches in December is irrelevant. The important thing is that people are using it. And people will use it whether it's the only one or one of a dozen. Why? Because it'll be the best!

I couldn't agree more. But herin lies the rub for Apple: once they port iTunes and it becomes a raging success, why not iPhoto or iDVD? I mean the software is so awsome and easy to use and there is nothing on the wintel platform that comes close. If Apple only has 3.5% market share but is able to make money, imagine how much they will make porting their iApps and making them available to Windows users. I think iTunes is the first domino that will eventually bring Apple head to head with Microsoft. I have been using OS X for about two months and I am simply amazed at it's power, simplicity, and elegance. It is a real shame that most Windows users are being denied this experiance and mostly out of simple ignorance. Once they get a taste for it they will want more. This iTunes thing could very well be a turning point for the Apple platform. I am doing things with my computer that I simply couldn't do on a PC and it literaly is changing my life...for the better. Taking photos and movies of my child, enjoying music in ways I couldn't before, ect... it's awsome. I find myself lamenting the fact that so few people are experiancing this. I hope that iTunes will bring the Apple experiance to more people and plant the thought in people's minds as to what the Apple thing is all about.

elmimmo

Aug 14, 2003, 02:15 AM

Whatever the options, I will not buy a single song online when the full album costs me two thirds than what it costs at the store, in a pristine CD without permanent crappy marker and its nice jewell case, cover and booklet. Either from MS, Apple or the Pope.

Maybe competition will bring those prices down and introduce format flexibility as one of the selling points, but quite a few people in this forum does not seem to think that competition usually deals with those issues.

thedoc1111

Aug 14, 2003, 02:33 AM

Hey, I don't generally condone this sort of stuff, but if M$ has bllackmailed enough record labels to put its stuff in this store, then there's only one thing that'll put them off - come on you h*ckers ;)

hehe

caveman_uk

Aug 14, 2003, 03:10 AM

Originally posted by merges

I can't believe how incredibly naive many of the folks on this board seem to be... Issues like international and Windows availability of the iTMS are discussed here as if Apple hasn't been thinking about them in depth for months, certainly well before there were even *rumours* of the service.

To those of you complaining about Apple's strategy: If you're so brilliant, go ahead and start an electronic music distribution service, on Mac OS X and Windows, internationally. Your comments belie little understanding of the actual details and complexities of executing a service like this, but then again, maybe you're right. Prove it.
So it's legal complexities that also stop iPhoto from offering the same functionality to international customers as US customers. It's legal complexities that make Sherlock so useless outside of the US.
You may have a point with iTMS but it's part of a pattern. Cool stuff first for the US market and screw the rest of you...

arn

Aug 14, 2003, 03:42 AM

Originally posted by caveman_uk
So it's legal complexities that also stop iPhoto from offering the same functionality to international customers as US customers. It's legal complexities that make Sherlock so useless outside of the US.
You may have a point with iTMS but it's part of a pattern. Cool stuff first for the US market and screw the rest of you...

They're working on the iPhoto thing: http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030721103214.shtml

I agree with the original poster, though it doesn't necessarily mean that people will or should stop complaining that Apple hasn't expanded their market reach.

Currently, iTunes is not available for Windows or Internationa customers. I also believe it's mostly a licesning issue that is holding these things back. -- as many rumors have indicated.

arn

Thanatoast

Aug 14, 2003, 04:02 AM

I would rather that Apple take the time to port iTunes with the highest confidence in its stability, simplicity and elegance than rush it out to market.

First, MS users are already used to crappy software. If iTunes comes out just as buggy/crappy as MS stuff, they will see no reason to download it and use it. If, however, Apple spends all the time it can making sure that it works as simply and elegantly as it does on a mac, people will be impressed. The switch campaign never really ends, you see.

Second, what is the DRM on this new MS service going to look like? That's a major point. I will make a wild-assed guess and say it'll be locked down fairly tight. Maybe not as bad as it could be, but almost certainly not as loose as iTMS. This could be a major selling point.

Three, despite WMP9's earlier release, most of the techie world, and not an insignificant portion of everyone else, already has heard of iTMS and how (well *****, there's just no other word) cool it is. Those people will look at what WMP9 has to offer, then they will look at iTMS and decide which to use. All prejudices aside, I have to give the majority of those decisions to iTMS. (Since I've obviously used this WMP9 service in Europe and I know what I'm talking about :P)

Another point, when iTMS for windows finally rolls out, it might still only be for US users. You'll notice that the MS service is only for Europe. Different markets. Now what would be nifty is if Apple rolled out iTMS for windows *and* international service at the same time. That would be a major coup, but fairly unlikely I think.

Just some things to ponder on.

[Edit]

Okay one more thought. Another reason iTunes for windows might be taking a long time is the iPod. There's no tight intergration in the PC world. Apple has to adjust for funky drivers and USB2.0. Plus I assume there would still be the three computer limit on purchased songs. Maybe that's more difficult to do on windows?

trianglejuice

Aug 14, 2003, 04:02 AM

Originally posted by DTphonehome
I agree that iTMS is a far better service, and will be way better than the competition for a while. But, we use macs because they are "good and easy to use", but it seems 95% of the world doesn't really care about that. They want compatibility, and Apple doesn't have it. This was just poorly thought out. Apple made the music download business a reality, and now they're letting all the buzzards swoop in and take over.

They want compatibility? :confused:
Isn't QuickTime compatible enough?
Micro$oft just got the luck that everyone has chosen for them in 1984. Kinda the same thing with BetaMax Vs. VHS... People chose for the wrong thing.

blogo

Aug 14, 2003, 04:30 AM

I dont think it will be a problem, even final cut pro is easier to use than windows media player, so adding a music store to it will just be more confusing.

abdul

Aug 14, 2003, 04:42 AM

well if the EU get their law case against ms won, then windows media player cannot be bundled into the os, so that leaves apple with a fairer field to play on, as in either case they would have to download the player.

lets just hpe the EU win this case against MS

Swinny

Aug 14, 2003, 04:45 AM

Well I've just opened up WMP9 and clicked on the Premium Services link and then the MSN Music Downloads link and I get to a page that doesnt scale to the size of the player and asks me to login...can browse as a guest though...big adverts everywhere (just for the service though) and a very confusing layout...looks like a web page being viewed inside another bit of software, rather than the integrated service iTunes offers.

...Seems to be a good selection of music though. (To my tastes at least - Searched for the Ramones on iTunes and got a few best-ofs - whereas MSN offers all their albums...again, this is something based on personal preference obviously!)...not gonna buy anything to test quality or anything though.

Having had a browse its obvious that even months after release, iTMS is streets ahead in terms of usability...Apple just need to show people how classy, easy and straight-forward iTMS is...because, as with most things, no other service out their comes close...instead though, we'll get clever-clever adverts that appeal to the cool-kids but do absolutely nothing to show the other 95% just why Apple products are better....as someone else has said in this thread, Windows people don't look elsewhere cos MS bundle everything they need into Windows - it's about time Apple used it's marketting budget to PROVE thats its products are a viable alternative rather than just say they are.

mim

Aug 14, 2003, 04:58 AM

Originally posted by bobindashadows
I actually had quite a difficult time doing just that back during the school year. A buddy of mine needed a wma of "Return of the Mack" converted to mp3 - I spent an hour and a half downloading conversion tools, but since each one was based off of WMP stuff, it refused to convert it due to DRM. I then moved it to my G4, and converted it in 2 minutes...

Was there something I missed?

heh - the right tools! So, your mac...or google for dBpowerAMP Music Converter.

billyboy

Aug 14, 2003, 04:59 AM

If this MS show has 200,000 songs available, is it going to be plastered in big red letters across the press, "ONLY 200 000 TRACKS". I seem to recall that Apple were dragged through a hedge for having the same inventory at launch time.

In this era of perfect access to information, it would be good to see journalists posting articles that expose the complete hypocritical and ignorant ************ and lies that comes out of the PC Windows world when someone like Apple shows them up for being innovation dinosaurs in the music media business.

I also think Apple, who I am sure do not underestimate the power of MS and the PC propoganda machine, should stop being "nice" and whack the opposition right between the eyes. ie drop a couple of their spare billions to the best agencies in the game and just nail every PC user till they understand that there is another way of doing things out there. It seems to me that iTMS actually does try to put the customer´s needs first, again a concept that 95% of the world probably cant really get their head round, and the Apple user friendly philosophy is a concept that needs to be mercilessly pushed over the next couple of years.

I cant believe that Apple will be a minority player in this music game, but it doesnt mean they couldnt be sidelined. Even though they were into the iTMS project 18 months ago, and even though I am sure it is finished and the version for Windows works like Apple want it to work for launch day, ie really well, it´s sitting on a shelf simply waiting for the legal boys and girls to sort out the nitty gritty. And you just dont know what dark forces are at work trying to maximise earnings for the music industry and likewise, on the other side of the ring there will be Windows corporations striving to muscle Apple out the way so they can use their ideas.

They couldnt have launched an international version or a Windows version or anything other than what they did, because it was an innovation, and the iTMS was launched as a test run to prove to the Big Five dummies that it worked as well as the Apple salesman said it did.

This comes back to the marketing need. Most people dont really believe it when they are being offered something in the computer world that seems too good to be true. There always has to be a catch, right?

this makes me soooo ANGRY:mad:

thies

Aug 14, 2003, 05:30 AM

<i>I agree that iTMS is a far better service</i>

ah, ofcourse. You can look into the future and know how that not yet started competition will work.

At the moment it looks like this: Apple uses it's mussic store as a marketing tool. They lose sales as they hype this aspect yet you can't use it anywhere but in the US. If there are usable alternatives elsewhere before Apple, those will be adopted and Apple lost it's hype.

Seahawk

Aug 14, 2003, 05:44 AM

Originally posted by Macrumors

Apple users are presently unable to use Apple's iTunes Music service outside of the United States.

This is not entirely correct.

Works everywhere: you just need to have a credit card with a US billing address.
I personally have downloaded music from iTMS while in France, Switzerland and Italy using local ISP. No problem whatsoever.

No difference of use wrt being in the US.

Jerry Spoon

Aug 14, 2003, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by nagromme
"fed up with poorly thought out Apple products/services"

I think the barriers overseas are legal ones.

interesting that these other companies aren't having such legal problems :rolleyes: I'm sure this has to do w/ Apple wanting more rights for the customer as far as burning, etc, but this is still frustrating.

DanUk2003

Aug 14, 2003, 07:26 AM

Just to say that MacRumors is not *strictly* accurate...

I've just been using Windows Media Player 9 on my PC at work, and the guide on the service actually states:

"Requires Windows Media Player 7" - which means you do NOT have to have version 9 to use the service.

MacRumors suggested the reason Macs cannot use the service was beacause it needs 9...

sorry but not true... just doesn't (currently) support Macs - as stated on the service....

hvfsl

Aug 14, 2003, 07:55 AM

This is old Apple all over again, they bring out something that is miles ahead of the competition and then don't bother to update update it for ages, then other companies come along and copy and wipe the floor with Apple.

DGFan

Aug 14, 2003, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by hvfsl
This is old Apple all over again, they bring out something that is miles ahead of the competition and then don't bother to update update it for ages, then other companies come along and copy and wipe the floor with Apple.

Way to stay positive!!

The heat getting to you?
:p

JW Pepper

Aug 14, 2003, 08:37 AM

I don't think we will EVER get the ITMS in Europe. Apple really doesn't care about foreign sales. It is happy fo rany consewquential sales it gets but there is no real commitment.

merges

Aug 14, 2003, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by JW Pepper
I don't think we will EVER get the ITMS in Europe. Apple really doesn't care about foreign sales. It is happy fo rany consewquential sales it gets but there is no real commitment.

Oh yeah, of course, you know, never mind that Europe provides Apple with a significant chunk of 50 freakin' percent of its revenue from outside the U.S....

You know, it's not at all an important market... No one in Europe is wealthy enough to afford a Mac, no one in Europe works in design, film, music, education, or any of Apple's other areas of strength... Nah, Apple doesn't give a ***** about Europe.

What are you smokin', bud?

vrapan

Aug 14, 2003, 10:16 AM

Yes this is the point: Europe and actually every other country in the "rich" world should be as important to Apple as USA but it does not seem to be. I mean think about it: No Apple stores in Europe - one at Tokyo I heard but that is it about Apple stores outside US, sherlock, iphoto, and now iTMS are not "Europe" friendly or internationally friendly. I think Apple has too small a market share to be leaving out any part of it especially if that part has much cheaper alternatives. It seems like they are losing the School battle and I won't be impressed if they are going to lose the international battle too in a few years.
I mean most of psychology deparments in the universities in UK use Macs BUT Apple does not have any program like they do in US to supply Macs to the students through the universities in deep discounts. People are less aware about Macss here cause Apple does not care enough.

I am taking my PB to many places and more often than not the question is "What computer is this" and I say it is a Mac from Apple. And they stare at me like I am speaking chinese or something and that is from younger people. I think Apple together with all the other battles they are fighting should fight the International battle as well

That been said I am not sure that people are aware or care about an MS music store no matter if it is under their nose or not.

bennetsaysargh

Aug 14, 2003, 10:42 AM

well, if they port all of the iApps, then there would be almost no reason to switch! they should port one or 2, as a teaser of sorts.

also, has anyone seen the service yet? is it a site or an app?

tiktokfx

Aug 14, 2003, 10:51 AM

bokdol

Aug 14, 2003, 11:26 AM

so microsoft did not make an american version but went straight to england for thier music service? so apple concures america and microsoft begins to take euro/england... now who takes asia? it's like risk but with music

CaptainScarlet

Aug 14, 2003, 11:27 AM

I give it a week before it's hacked!!

davem2020

Aug 14, 2003, 12:34 PM

there are rumors floating around that mediacenter's new beta will become apple's itunes for windows. see this thread:

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1060561162;start=16#16

jettredmont

Aug 14, 2003, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Jerry Spoon
interesting that these other companies aren't having such legal problems :rolleyes: I'm sure this has to do w/ Apple wanting more rights for the customer as far as burning, etc, but this is still frustrating.

That is exactly it.

While it is (relatively speaking) easy to get all thousand or so international distributors to agree that you can sell their music online, it is not easy to get all of them to agree on a single price ($.99 or therabouts ... I suspect you could get them all to sign on to $5 downloads, but then where'd that leave your customers ...), a single "Fair Play" usage paradigm (which, again, is hard because it gives so much to the user ... it'd be pretty easy to sign them on for "you can listen to it exactly once, on one computer, and can not burn it to any CD", but that's not exactly a good deal for Apple's customers either), and a single level of quality.

Microsoft worked with BuyMusic too, in case you all forgot. BuyMusic couldn't get a consistent license from even the "Big 5" RIAA labels in the US! Add to that Microsoft's own failing (WMP DRM is not designed with users in mind and really can not support anything like Apple's licensing scheme; WMP "activation" is painful and clunky; the WMP/store interface is clunky), and I don't see OD2 doing much better.

Does OD2 have a consistent licensing and usage scheme across all their songs? Has OD2 worked around the limitations of WMP DRM to give its users a scheme anywhere as flexible as the Fair Play system Apple has set up? Is buying from OD2 a one-step process, or a multi-step, confusing process as it is with BuyMusic?

It all remains to be seen, but, IMHO, until WMP 10 comes out with a more consumer-friendly licensing and activation scheme, there will be no WMP-based music service that can compete with iTMS.

DTphonehome

Aug 14, 2003, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by trianglejuice
They want compatibility? :confused:
Isn't QuickTime compatible enough?

I meant to illustrate that a major sticking point for PC users against using a Mac is that there are hundreds of thousands more titles availbale for Windows than for Mac. Of course, the overwhelming majority of users will never encounter a situation where they can't find a Mac version of the PC software they need.

--DT

DTphonehome

Aug 14, 2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by merges
Honestly, do you think that Apple, who carefully recruits literally many of the top, innovate talents in engineering, marketing, design, and dozens of other fields, doesn't know what's going on?

I can't believe how incredibly naive many of the folks on this board seem to be... Issues like international and Windows availability of the iTMS are discussed here as if Apple hasn't been thinking about them in depth for months, certainly well before there were even *rumours* of the service.

To those of you complaining about Apple's strategy: If you're so brilliant, go ahead and start an electronic music distribution service, on Mac OS X and Windows, internationally. Your comments belie little understanding of the actual details and complexities of executing a service like this, but then again, maybe you're right. Prove it.

Obviously I am aware that Apple has very intelligent people running the company, but that doesn't make them any less likely to make serious blunders. The intelligence of Apple management is hardly the point though. Apple is a visionary company, with great ideas that change the computer industry. The problem is, as many have stated on this board, that Apple comes up with a revolutionary idea, and then lets the competition grab the baton and run with it, all the while earning fat profits, and leaving Apple with its small but devoted customer base. It doesn't take a business degree to know that following through with an idea is at least as important as having it in the first place. Apple came up with the first easy to use consumer PC, but MS ran with it and made the big money.

And yes, the music industry is incredibly complex and I don't have a particularly deep understanding of how it works. But Apple's competitors seem to be doing OK with the legal issues, so I really wish that the uber-management over at Apple would stop thinking about the next big thing, and concentrate on the current big thing. Or at least hire some more people to deal with that. Like me :D

--DT

jettredmont

Aug 14, 2003, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by davem2020
there are rumors floating around that mediacenter's new beta will become apple's itunes for windows. see this thread:

http://www.musicex.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=MediaCenter;action=display;num=1060561162;start=16#16

Oh, Lord, I hope not!

http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/misc/mc91228.jpg

Why oh why oh why would one want that abhorent tree view taking up 1/3 of the screen? You want Yet Another File Tree ("My Computer"? "Plugins" deserves to be taking up real estate there? A column on your library denoting where the song's image is? Another column titled "S..<up-arrow><superscript-1>" (what the HELL is that supposed to mean? It's the frickin' track number, from the look of it!)? The trademarked Win-centric Mess O' Unintelligible and Undistinguishable Toolbar Icons, placed uniquely in the center of the screen (and another one in the bottom-right in case you missed the first)?

Who the hell would want to use THAT?!?

I really really hope Apple has more sense than that ...

Scratch that: I know Apple has more sense than that. I hope that they use their God-given sense.

jettredmont

Aug 14, 2003, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by DTphonehome
And yes, the music industry is incredibly complex and I don't have a particularly deep understanding of how it works. But Apple's competitors seem to be doing OK with the legal issues

Really? You think BuyMusic is a stellar example of the results you can expect after successfully negotiating a consistent and consumer-friendly contract with all of the major US labels?

There is NO evidence that any of Apple's competitors has done anywhere remotely near "OK" with regard to legal issues. Of course, up to this point we really only have one semi-valid specimin to look at. It is far too soon to make a judgement here yet.

ezsober

Aug 14, 2003, 02:07 PM

I think many people in this forum are overlooking a crucial point. Several big time music label CEOs have told the media the iTunes was an experiment, and nothing more. Just because Apple was first to market means nothing to them. For the music companies, which are the ones holding the rights to the music, its about profits, and resurrecting their flagging muical fortunes. Does anyone honestly believe the labels are going to give Apple first shot at everything. No way. Its in the labels interests to have dozens of online music stores, with plenty of competition. Eventually the labels will just sell their music on their own sites, or through parternships with many of the soon to be existing music sites. No on is going to own the market, because the music industry is scared spitless of losing control of their music to digital middlemen. In reality, whether Apple releases a Windows version is inconsequential, with the liberal DRM or without. The industry is looking out for itself, and does anyone really believe the Big Five record companies have forgotten Apple's "Rip, Mix, Burn" campaign, which essentialy was the computer industry flipping the bird to the record industry? I doubt it. Steve Jobs is great, but who's outsmarting who here?

tex210

Aug 14, 2003, 03:13 PM

I'm sorry to say I agree.

on a positive note... maybe it's taking a while also because our itunes will change as well? couldn't quicktime and iTunes converge?

Hawthorne

Aug 14, 2003, 03:39 PM

..have more to do with securing consistent legal rights than any technical reasons.

With iTMS, Apple has to satisfy both the demands of their users for easy downloads, cheap pricing, and non-restrictive DRM, which is the exact opposite of what the labels want.And unlike buymusic.com, Apple enforces *their* standard for DRM. With buymusic.com, the labels set their standards in place on a track by track basis. It's a lot easier to get that set up than to force your customers into your set of rules. Ultimately, iTMS is better for the end user, and that's why it's done better business than all the competitors.

orangedv

Aug 14, 2003, 07:38 PM

A) Do you all really think that Apple is biting off it's nose to spite it's face wrt Europe?

What about the fact that Europe itself can't figure out what the heck it wants to do with itself (can't establish a unilaterial European Union, can't get everyone to accept the Euro, etc etc), yet you think Apple can just snap it's fingers and say "let there be Euro iTunes?"

An innovative social and economic political union from countries that were the birthplace of everything your country takes for granted from law to science to politics takes a little longer than a week. Looking at post Saddam Iraq, I find frosty lectures from Americans about political integration and stability frankly hilarious. Who is kidding whom here?

IMHO this stuff about iTunes not working in Europe is a bunch of horse crap. Apple don’t DEAL with Europe as a single entity (go to Apples web site and click the drop down menu for other countries, it don't say 'usa, canada, japan, europe does it now?) The record industry has different deals for different European countries, so does Apple. Where is this nonsense that it has to be all done at once coming from? Dig deeper on this issue, I don’t see Sony Germany saying NO, but Sony UK saying yes. I DO see Metallica saying no, whether it is in the US, Europe, Mongolia or the arse end of Mars.

Didn't any of you notice that this "Euro" Microsoft music service entails all of... one... country, one that's not even part of the European mainland?

Meaning what, you are anti-island? You hate Hawaii too? Or do you think its not right to trade with countries surrounded by water, think they can't make a buck or two?

B) Do you really think Apple is just sitting around saying, "Hey, think we really need to make a Windows version of iTunes? Do we really care about this dross?" Porting applications to a different platform does not happen overnight.

If you put a full stop after 'sitting around', you hit the nail on the head Mr troll.
As many others have said, Sherlock does not work here (sitting around..) iPhoto is not firing on all cylinders in Europe, nor is dot Mac. (Phoning tech support at 3am there is some innovation for you)

Would you prefer that Apple waited until December to release ALL of the iTunes store stuff, including the Mac version, so you could say "Hey, they released the Mac and the Windows version at the same time!"

No, I would prefer that Apple read Mac editorials that quiet rightly point out the possibilty that Windows users in the US could be using iTunes before Mac users in Europe, and that the switcher campaign was also seen in Europe.

PS: Little fact, you CANNOT be "losing sales" on a product YOU DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE.

Yes you can, its called competition. You don’t do it, the other guy will. Then he has market share, and you just have rude offensive fans who flame people for quiet rightly pointing out your shortcomings. Bill Gates visits Tony Blair at his place to discuss UK computing needs in Education. Steve Jobs wouldn't know Downing Street from his falling market share...

MhzDoesMatter

Aug 14, 2003, 08:32 PM

Chicken-Littles,

The fact that this thread has become laden with so much ignorant drivel is only made worse by the fact that it's the same blather being said over and over.

Do you all think your quirky sense of humor adds a fresh perspective to the exact same thing the last fifty posters said? Does it matter that not only are you all parroting each other, but you're all sounding equally as ignorant and naive, and it makes we wonder how people with such a blatant lack of insight into dam near anything having to do with technology, business, and the world in general could have stumbled upon a Mac and recognized it as a computing experience worth partaking. I guess the sheer greatness of a the Mac OS can appeal to the bottom of the masses. Speaking of mac appeal....

It can't really be so bad if it's held onto you this long. I mean, really, do you think that it's your undying love for the Mac platform that has kept you a Mac user. Or is it because Mac's still do what you need them to do and still do it well. You're not a genius for recognizing this. It's not because of your great understanding of computing. No. Mac's are just that good. Now what makes you think that other people, just as average as yourselves won't see that also?

You were shown. Until you were shown, you didn't know different either. So lets just believe that all other people have to do is be shown the Mac platform and be able to make that decision for themselves. But I guess the real issue at hand is, do we have to show everyone right now?

There's Buy Music, Pressplay, Son of Napster, yadda yadda yadda, all coming out before iTMS XP. Apple's going to be the last to the windows market. Apple's going to be facing entrenched competition. Apple's going to have to steal market share from others.

So what else is new?

News flash: They've done it before. They're advantage? Every one has seen how Real works. Relatively speaking, everyone has "used" WMP. Nearly everyone has experienced Napster. None of these have changed. They're still the same old adequate programs and technology they've always been. Apple's advantage over market segment leaders has always been their ability to surpass mere adequacy and provide an excellent solution.

No one has seen Apple's ways of doing things ie. "This play button? It actually means play." or "No, really. We don't need your credit card number to open this file." So if they get a true taste of the Apple experience, why wouldn't they switch no matter what's entrenched on their computers, much like you did however long ago you made that choice?

The problem is, many Mac faithful are idiots. No, really. You see, they simultaneously believe in the omnipotence of Apple Inc and its utter incapacity to do anything right. See, they think no matter what Apple does, it's so much better than anything a windows based product can provide, so that every second Apple is not releasing something to lure windows users is a lost opportunity for revenue? But why, if an Apple solution is so great, then why the hurry? In this case, the iTMS isn't even a real revenue channel as much as a marketing device. So the real target, the users, will mostly be there tomorrow (minus a few to random causes of death), bygones. So if the people will be there tomorrow, why the ultimate need to be there right now?

What nearly 40 posters in this thread failed to realize the iTMS is just an interactive Switch commercial. iTMS XP is never supposed to be the greatest music service of all times. Why would we even want that. The most revenue Apple could receive would be its portions of the profits from a $.99 song sale. iTMS XP is a gateway drug. I'd wager Apple would only one maybe 400,000 (random minuscule number) users. Why? Because they're hoping that at that point, every additional user would be replacing one that's just defected to the Macintosh platform, where Apple would make money from the Mac iTMS and everything else from the iMac sales to the licensing of the Made for OS X graphic on software boxes. But that's the part you got.

Where you seem to be having the higher brain function failure is grasping this question. What's the likely hood of that happening if Apple's offering isn't initially mind-blowing right out of the gate? The only loyalty that exists is familiarity to the current product. If Apple's isn't exceedingly above and beyond what's already out there, then there will be no switching. If whatever they put out isn't absolutely perfect, then there is no point. There's nothing to be gained. This is the great business sense Apple can't scrape together?

But you know, perhaps these mass lapses in logic can be explained by falling sky related head wounds, right. Especially now that Microsoft is in the game huh? Guess the whole world is ending because surely no one can compete with Microsoft. The American based iTMS was damned the minute Microsoft's Western Hemisphere One Country only Music Store.

I don't even have anymore...

-Hertz

tiktokfx

Aug 14, 2003, 08:55 PM

An innovative social and economic political union from countries that were the birthplace of everything your country takes for granted from law to science to politics takes a little longer than a week. Looking at post Saddam Iraq, I find frosty lectures from Americans about political integration and stability frankly hilarious. Who is kidding whom here?

IMHO this stuff about iTunes not working in Europe is a bunch of horse crap. Apple don’t DEAL with Europe as a single entity (go to Apples web site and click the drop down menu for other countries, it don't say 'usa, canada, japan, europe does it now?) The record industry has different deals for different European countries, so does Apple. Where is this nonsense that it has to be all done at once coming from? Dig deeper on this issue, I don’t see Sony Germany saying NO, but Sony UK saying yes. I DO see Metallica saying no, whether it is in the US, Europe, Mongolia or the arse end of Mars.

My, we're sensitive today. I have nothing against Europe. You read far too much into what I said. The fact remains that Europe is unable or unwilling to provide a unified front about things, which makes it rather difficult for companies to operate in a cohesive way.

The problem with iTunes that differentiates it from the hardware sales you so astutely note that Apple manages to handle on a country-by-country basis, is that it involves download of intangible data, and is thus much harder to monitor, and is not necessarily an issue so much of what record labels in different countries want, as what the intellectual property laws of various countries represent.

Meaning what, you are anti-island? You hate Hawaii too? Or do you think its not right to trade with countries surrounded by water, think they can't make a buck or two?

Meaning that people are getting their underwear jammed up their rear about Microsoft somehow breaking into a market that Apple's sitting on it's heels doing nothing about, when it's one single country out of the entirety of Europe. Apple is attempting to release an iTMS for Europe in one fell swoop, not one country by country, which is notably similar to what people are moaning about wishing Apple had done with the Mac/Win iTMS at the same time.

If you put a full stop after 'sitting around', you hit the nail on the head Mr troll. As many others have said, Sherlock does not work here (sitting around..) iPhoto is not firing on all cylinders in Europe, nor is dot Mac. (Phoning tech support at 3am there is some innovation for you)

Do you blame Apple for not being able to make you walk on water, too? I'm far from being a defender of everything Apple, but the reason I posted that in the first place is that people have some amazing expectations from any company, let alone what they expect from Apple. The amount of people who're muttering in darkened corners about their paranoia about Apple conciously neglecting them is astounding; ever consider that Apple MIGHT JUST NOT BE ABLE TO DO THINGS IMMEDIATELY FOR YOU?

No, I would prefer that Apple read Mac editorials that quiet rightly point out the possibilty that Windows users in the US could be using iTunes before Mac users in Europe, and that the switcher campaign was also seen in Europe.

Tough luck. Again, you completely miss the point. Do you think that Apple really just says to themselves, "Hey, let's not give Europe any features, they don't need them"? Apple, again, is not perfect, but these days they rarely give only a half-hearted effort at doing things. Which means, when something isn't done by Apple, that it is generally either A) against the "Apple" way (which afaik does not include screwing over Europe or B) They just haven't been able to do it.

Yes you can, its called competition. You don’t do it, the other guy will. Then he has market share, and you just have rude offensive fans who flame people for quiet rightly pointing out your shortcomings. Bill Gates visits Tony Blair at his place to discuss UK computing needs in Education. Steve Jobs wouldn't know Downing Street from his falling market share...

No, you can't. You can't sell a product you don't have, and thus you cannot lose sales on it to someone who does have the product.

"Mr Blair had not yet started the computer course he promised to attend when he confessed his technological illiteracy a month ago."

Congrats on that, BTW. Did you know Al Gore invented the internet? And he was just a vice-president!

Seriously, there was nothing in my original post intended to troll or flame anyone or any country. If you read that into it, you might just be hypersensitive.

Sayhey

Aug 14, 2003, 09:23 PM

Competition is great! I only wish we could have some. In monopoly situations there is no real competition! Microsoft could easily win the battle for market share just because of their dominence in the OS market. The good news is that the EU has not yet agreed to this new partnership and has an anti-trust case against Microsoft that is right on point. Maybe, they will have more backbone than the US Justice Dept. did.

Morpheus

Aug 14, 2003, 09:58 PM

Hertz-

I agree with you in that Apple will make a music service far superior to any of the current windows version. Take the iPod - When Apple came out with the windows version, there were already many mp3 players on the market. Apple just simply made the best, and thats why it controls such a large market share today.

There is a problem though - People are much more willing to learn new hardware than they are software. Someone who is used to a windows interface will most likely be drawn to those apps with a windows interface over an Apple interface. Therefore, in order to be successful, Apple needs to make iTunes XP with a windows interface. This presents the ultimate problem: Making a program easy to use with a Windows interface is definatly not an easy task. I believe that Apple is one of the only companies that could actually pull that off.

007

Aug 15, 2003, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by xtekdiver
I couldn't agree more. But herin lies the rub for Apple: once they port iTunes and it becomes a raging success, why not iPhoto or iDVD? I mean the software is so awsome and easy to use and there is nothing on the wintel platform that comes close. If Apple only has 3.5% market share but is able to make money, imagine how much they will make porting their iApps and making them available to Windows users. I think iTunes is the first domino that will eventually bring Apple head to head with Microsoft. I have been using OS X for about two months and I am simply amazed at it's power, simplicity, and elegance. It is a real shame that most Windows users are being denied this experiance and mostly out of simple ignorance. Once they get a taste for it they will want more. This iTunes thing could very well be a turning point for the Apple platform. I am doing things with my computer that I simply couldn't do on a PC and it literaly is changing my life...for the better. Taking photos and movies of my child, enjoying music in ways I couldn't before, ect... it's awsome. I find myself lamenting the fact that so few people are experiancing this. I hope that iTunes will bring the Apple experiance to more people and plant the thought in people's minds as to what the Apple thing is all about.

A few things...

1. Apple is a hardware company.
2. Apple is a hardware company.
3. Apple is a hardware company.

It's hard to believe, given that their software blows all competition away, but yes, Apple is a hardware company. Their amazing operating system, and thousands of dollars worth of free software (iDvd-like software for the pc costs over 10 grand, I recall reading somewhere) serves to get you to buy their pricy hardware, which I do with pleasure (although I'm on the verge of being priced out. Apple! Tone it down some, you've got to hook 'em while they're young!). They could probably make tons of money porting Final Cut Pro to the PC, but many people and companies buy Macs for the sole purpose of running Final Cut Pro, a good deal for Apple. Why would anyone go out and get a Mac if all the amazing software was available for much cheaper PCs?

Abstract

Aug 15, 2003, 09:29 AM

If they're launching this music service by next week, then Apple and iTMS is focked. The words "Integrated into our software" from Microsoft simply means, "We'll pull any scandalous move we can make in order to make sure that you use our music service by default. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

billyboy

Aug 15, 2003, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by MhzDoesMatter

In this case, the iTMS isn't even a real revenue channel as much as a marketing device. So the real target, the users, will mostly be there tomorrow (minus a few to random causes of death), bygones. So if the people will be there tomorrow, why the ultimate need to be there right now?

What nearly 40 posters in this thread failed to realize the iTMS is just an interactive Switch commercial. iTMS XP is never supposed to be the greatest music service of all times. Why would we even want that. The most revenue Apple could receive would be its portions of the profits from a $.99 song sale. iTMS XP is a gateway drug.

I guess from the tone of your post you´re not 18 and you don´t work for the diplomatic service :rolleyes:

I agree there is not the breakneck rush that some are advocating to get iTMS for Windows out. When Apple have the whole legal package deal that they are after, that will be the right time to launch iTMS and it should do OK.

I think you underestimate the effect on revenue of a few cents here and there. The music service that is baiting PC heads to become new Mac users would be a very real revenue channel when downloads are in the tens of millions a month. But you dont think that this is likely when you shout at everyone for being stupid enough to think or wish that iTMS will be the best music service ever.

If say every 400 000 songs equates to one person changing to Mac, if that''s what you meant, that means a lot of new Macs will only go out the door with mega music sales, so can you explain to us dummies why wouldnt Apple, or Mac users, want to see the greatest music service ever ? . I presume Apple want to win win win and we Mac fans would like to see PC users enjoying the same computer experience as us. So for that to happen iTMS has to be ****ing amazing.

An interactive Switch campaign is the theory behind iTMS, with financial spin-offs, and that´s good, but as we all know, thus far, producing the best software has NOT lured people to switch.

For the sake of Apple, I hope that music is the new rock n roll in computing and turns out to be the one and only catalyst in their software history so far to generate a mass switch.

Have a nice day. :)

whooleytoo

Aug 15, 2003, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Abstract
If they're launching this music service by next week, then Apple and iTMS is focked. The words "Integrated into our software" from Microsoft simply means, "We'll pull any scandalous move we can make in order to make sure that you use our music service by default. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

The EU has already said this music service strengthens their case against Microsoft - not that it needed it. They could force Microsoft to either drop WMP bundling, or bundle Real and QuickTime (including AAC support?) as well.

Sayhey

Aug 15, 2003, 01:15 PM

Originally posted by whooleytoo
The EU has already said this music service strengthens their case against Microsoft - not that it needed it. They could force Microsoft to either drop WMP bundling, or bundle Real and QuickTime (including AAC support?) as well.

Absolutely! Check out the following story:
http://www.macdailynews.com/comments.php?id=1586_0_1_0_C

ryaxnb

Aug 15, 2003, 08:03 PM

Not that cost matters to much... but according to OS X Calculator, .99 euros is about 111 cents (not 99!)

maxterpiece

Aug 16, 2003, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by jettredmont
Oh, Lord, I hope not!

http://www.jriver.com/~jriver/misc/mc91228.jpg

the pic you posted is the less similar one - this pic is remarkably similar to itunes.

vrapan

Aug 16, 2003, 03:46 PM

the pic you posted is the less similar one - this pic is remarkably similar to itunes.

Hi there don't worry about media center or media jukebox or whatever they call it. It can look like iTunes as much as it wants to - i guess that is a skin for it anyway. Have you ever try to use this app? If not let me tell you. While I had a PC (just a few months ago I still had one) I was using Musicmatch Jukebox which is a decent package but does not come close to iTunes. Anyway Musicmatch had the weird tendency to be extremely unstable in any first major new release so I got sick and started looking on something else and I (unfortunatelly) stepped on that piece of work which was then called media jukebox i think. Let me tell you it is the most bloated most complicated and hard to use music management software I have ever used. No matter how much it tries to look like iTunes it will never make it..... I switched back to music match like the next day. And now i am in Itunesheaven.

abdul

Aug 19, 2003, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by merges
Oh yeah, of course, you know, never mind that Europe provides Apple with a significant chunk of 50 freakin' percent of its revenue from outside the U.S....

You know, it's not at all an important market... No one in Europe is wealthy enough to afford a Mac, no one in Europe works in design, film, music, education, or any of Apple's other areas of strength... Nah, Apple doesn't give a ***** about Europe.

What are you smokin', bud?

i think you guys dont unserstand the US is bigger than europe. the US=40% of the music purshaing world. it is understandable why they started off there. hopefully they will spread to other countries.

still you dont understand that MS is europe may have to unbundle WMP from the OS is the EU has anything to do with it. the EU has already sent 'threat'....or advice to MS to do so. This will make a real level playing field for the iTMS which is fair.

elmimmo

Aug 20, 2003, 06:22 AM

Originally posted by abdul
the US=40% of the music purshaing world. it is understandable why they started off there

Besides the fact that I am not interested in on-line music stores, I do not have a problem at all with Apple priorizing US in the calendar. The iTMS is not very old after all.

What I have problems with is when Apple decides to completely abandon other territories besides US (and well, to a certain extent, Japan). Yes, I'll bring it up again. iPhoto prof. printing is now, how old? 2 years? Some people said it is hard for such a thing to bring on to Europe's heterogeny. I am sorry but I do not buy that. Just what do the guys at Apple Spain do on their day by day job besides touching their noses? Why there must be a common initiative for such a simple thing as prof. photo printing when there are so many traditional brands everywhere doing just that. Besides, if there really is a need to do it all at once, people such as Kodak or others at every corner in every country here. They'll be bringing the iTMS 6 months later than the US and you tell me getting prof. printing is quite harder than dealing with the particularities oflocal divisions of all those multinational record companies? I do not buy that, at all?

Besides, is there any slim long-term plan to push Sherlock in any of these countries, now that it is 1 year old in the US? It is not that Apple is trying, at least it has made no announcement in that aspect. Not even said "we are working on it". And again. The argument that Europe's too much of a puzzle to push it here, why local Apple divisions do not have the independence so that Apple Spain can partner with 5 of the 100 companies that provide information services? Why should Apple's negotiations with a german information service about movie theaters influence how and when is Apple bringing that service to Spain.

We had Spanish Text-to-Speech in system 8, at least (the first v. of Mac OS I saw). Why is it so long since Mac OS X 10.0.0 and such an oooold technology it is not in there yet?

How old is Ink? Well, any sign we are getting non-English recognition dictionaries for Inkwell in 10.3? Let the bets run.

It is not so much about understandable and acceptable delays.

When there is not interest, there is not interest. And that is all the explanation that there is behind Apple's stance about Europe.