Bluetooth Batteries?

[arn]

YourDailyMac (http://www.yourdailymac.com/bluetoothbatteries.html) reports that Apple is working on Bluetooth mice/keyboards... with rechargable batteries:
Instead of replacing the flat batteries of your keyboards and mouses, Apple will be introducing their new bluetooth keyboards and two button mouses with rechargable batteries that are recharged using a special USB plug in battery charger.

Bluetooth peripherals seem a natural step forward after Apple's introduction of their Bluetooth Preview (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/04/20020401181513.html)... but YourDailyMac's previous track record (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/02/20020225071435.html) is uncertain... so grain of salt.

[kishba]

that's really cool... i wonder how long it would take to recharge the batteries and if they would make a new battery level icon in the menu bar for keyboards/mice

i also wonder how many years/recharges the batteries would be good for

[iGav]

really cool........:D

A wireless mouse I could probably use........ although not to fussed about a wireless keyboard though!!!

I'd be intrigued to know how long they'd last on a charge!! Sometimes I spend 24 hours solid on DV and Post work when deadlines loom...... so I'd like lots of durability from a charge!!:D

[Tomasz]

You guys all know those new razors right? The ones where you just put it in its little holder and it recharges itself. Thats how the new mice should be. When not in use, just pop it in the little holder. It charges as much as necessary.

One of the problems though is that the battery might get problems from being charged too early.... but that can probably be solved by just not allowiing the charger to charge at certain points.

Tomasz

[iGav]

Eww.....

Actually that reminds me, I need to discharge and re-charge my TiBook battery!!

I still think the mouse is a good idea, but I don't think I'd have a use for a wireless keyboard......

[Ensign Paris]

Is there anyway they could get the mouse to charge from the warmth produced from the users hand, or even put small solar panels inside the mouse so it charges when nobody is using it or even have a small wheel on the front which charges up when the mouse is moving??

Ensign

[iGav]

Uranium......

Could get a couple of years of power if this sucker was nuclear powered!! It'd be quite sturdy aswell..... What with it being having to be to be manufactured from Lead and all!!!:p

[CHess]

Maybe the mouse should use one of those little flywheel generators :)
Then, like a kids toy car, you just rub it across the table and get the generator revved up! As long as it's spinning, it's generating enough juice to operate. When it slows down, you just rev it up again.

vroom, vROOM... point, click, point, click... vROOM... drag click, point, double-click...

:D

[iGav]

That sounds like something that would appeal to me...... it'd have to have the sparks appear though when you rev it up!!

Alternatively Apple could breed really small hamsters, and they could fit really small hamster wheels inside, and the hamsters run, and run, and run, thus generating enough power for the Mouse!!:D

BUT DON'T FORGET TO FEED THE LITTLE CRITTERS...... maybe Apple could put a little warning icon on OSX menu bar, to remind when they need feeding!!!:D

[CHess]

ooooooo.... I never thought about sparks! I like it :)

On the hamster mouse, it sounds like it would be a lot like a Flintstones mouse. You know, where you open the door to the top of the mouse and the little hamsters shrug their little shoulders and go "heh, it's a living..." :D

[huot425]

yeah so imagine this...

sorry i couldn't do my homework because i couldn't use my keyboard

what a horrible idea. is anyone actually buying this crap? jobs would never sacrifice usability for a couple of wires. sure it would be a 'cool' idea but if i had to plug my mouse in every couple of days it'd piss me off enough to buyy another keyboard and mouse. this will never pass unless apple can come up with a way to self power the device (a realistic one too).

anyways just wanted to vent after reading all this stuff about wireless divices that still have to be plugged in. seems ironic dosen't it?

[sjs]

not much in the "vision" department are ya?

[dongmin]

Originally posted by sjs
not much in the "vision" department are ya?

If the cordless mouse qualifies as "vision" for Apple, we're in big trouble. I've been using a cordless mouse on a PC for a couple years now; it's hardly caused a ripple in my computing experience.

[j763]

Correct me if i'm wrong but I thought wireless mouse batteries lasted for about 6 months...

[Tomasz]

I have a wireless mouse on my PC (yeah... I know.... this is about macs.... but...) and I have not replaced the batteries yet. I have used it for well over 6 months. But then again, I don't use it often. But I hear that bluetooth is a larger power drain then previous methods of wireless mouse technology.

Also, the mac mouse will probably have a laser in it. This will add considerable power drain. So, all in all, a way of charging the mouse is needed. I really don't like changing batteries. But then again, if the mouse is "cool" enough, I will probably get one any way.

Tomasz

[macstudent]

A wireless optical mouse, such as the logitech optical mouse, only last 1 - 1 1/2 months at best.

It would assume that apple would continue to use an optical mouse rather than go back to the old ball.

[imspace2]

What about those sweet Seiko watches http://www.seiko-shop.co.uk/ that charge themselves with movement may be pricey though right?

Hey any Clie users out there? I own an N760C where the hells our bluetooth memory stick? All there is right now is that crappy 320 resolution camera

[madamimadam]

I refuse to believe that Apple will release a USB charger until I see it. Why in the world would they want to make a USB charger when they could make a Firewire one... esp. when Firewire has FAR more power to work with. USB is SO usless when it comes to anything that wants more power than an LED.

Other than that, my fingers are crossed, sounds fantastic.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen

Why in the world would they want to make a USB charger when they could make a Firewire one... esp. when Firewire has FAR more power to work with. USB is SO usless when it comes to anything that wants more power than an LED.


So they can sell them to people who do not have firewire macs (even tho most of those might need replacing to run os X worth a damn). I could see a classroom of USB iMacs and iBooks with a bluetooth nubbin, and some teacher going around jockeying into position so they can demo something to a student, without making the student give up their own keyboard, mouse,trackpad.

[johnpaul191]

bluetooth is not only for keyboards and mice..... it is also for scanners, printers, digital cameras, palm pilots, cell phones etc....... all these things already have a power source. BT also uses WAY less power than airport, so it is pratical for palm pilots and things with low power available. as for scanners/printers/fax machines/bla, those devices are already plugged in to the wall, so power consumption is not an issue. a bluetooth chip is cheap, once everything is worked out they should be as common as USB ports. it will be a nice way to connect a printer to any computer in a 30 foot range. when you think about it, the DLink BT chip is about as much as a quality 25 foot USB cable would cost.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


So they can sell them to people who do not have firewire macs (even tho most of those might need replacing to run os X worth a damn). I could see a classroom of USB iMacs and iBooks with a bluetooth nubbin, and some teacher going around jockeying into position so they can demo something to a student, without making the student give up their own keyboard, mouse,trackpad.

It really isn't Apple's style to support old hardware. It would be like a rumour of an upcoming USB iPod... not likely to happen.

[iGav]

Wellllllll........

If the batteries can last 1.5 months per charge then that is pretty good..... the same with the keyboard...... if it's this amount of usage I could probably use it......:p

What happens though (sorry I'm not upto speed on Bluetooth yet) if you have more than one mac, all with bluetooth and using wireless keyboards... they wouldn't interfere with each other would they?? Or would it be dependant on range?? or is there a imited amount of macs you could have together???

Just wondering.....:D

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by iGAV
What happens though (sorry I'm not upto speed on Bluetooth yet) if you have more than one mac, all with bluetooth and using wireless keyboards... they wouldn't interfere with each other would they?? Or would it be dependant on range?? or is there a imited amount of macs you could have together???

DAMN good question, I second it

[s10]

What's the point of having a wireless keyboard if you have to plug in (everyday if you use it often) to recharge?
Wireless is about loosing wire clutter, but this way, you need a wire anyway. Or you need to trake out the battery and put it in a USB port at the back of your desktop.

Another side effect is that you loose the USB port on your keyboard, which I use very often for my digicam.

A wireless mouse would be more practicle, but still you need that wire somewhere to recharge it...Or worse a docking station.

Unless new desk and laptops come with build in recharche stations for mice, I don't see the point of making these things wireless.

Somebody mentioned here that Bluetooth is also for printers, scanners, etc.
Maybe for small datastreams it could work, but more data intensive products need something more powerfull then Bluetooth, like Airport.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen
USB is SO usless when it comes to anything that wants more power than an LED.

I have a USB Zip250 and it works without a power cord, everything goes through the USB cable.

Besides, if Apple designs it correctly the recharger would be a little caddy that you place the mouse or keyboard in when not in use, like cordless phones. This would make it easy to recharge and provide a little home for the mice so they don't get lost as easily.

I'm looking forward to them.:D

[iGav]

the little charger for the mouse..... that you just slot the mouse into.... easy peasy!!:p

But the keyboard...... it'd be like a graving dock...... huge... enormous.....:p I guess the keyboard would be plug-in and charge with a wire....... although that said.. would the chargers be mains powered or through the mac, and the mac would have to be left on?? I like to turn my mac off at night to give her a rest..... would they still charge even if the mac was off???

Also anyone know about interference, or if there is a limit on the amount of keyboards and mice etc?? I like to know that some dude sat next me doesn't have my personal emails come up on his screen whilst I'm typing........ especially as it's probably about people in the office!!:p :p :p

[mcrain]

I have a rechargeable toothbrush that is waterproof and all plastic. No metal on the exterior and no holes or plugs of any kind. Somehow, it recharges when placed in a little base. That same type of recharger could be made so that when you are done using the keyboard mouse, just "put them away" in a holder, and voila, they are getting charged. No wires necessary especially if the holder is built into the computer.

I have no idea if bluetooth will be very practical in an environment with multiple computers and users, but if it is, and if it is secure, it has a lot of possibilities.

[s10]

Yeah, but what's the point of getting a wireless mouse if you still need a wired up base to recharge it?

This way wireless doesn't take away the clutter on your desktop, but makes it worse by adding another thing (the recharger)

[Hemingray]

Originally posted by s10
Yeah, but what's the point of getting a wireless mouse if you still need a wired up base to recharge it?

This way wireless doesn't take away the clutter on your desktop, but makes it worse by adding another thing (the recharger)

Amen to that.

Where I can see bluetooth really coming in handy is big peripherals, like scanners and printers and digital cameras. Those are the wires that bug me most.

HOWEVER... let's say you want to kick back on the couch and IM one of your friends while you watch TV. Let's say the keyboard can be unplugged from the wire and that automatically activates the bluetooth and battery. THAT would be useful!

[AmbitiousLemon]

im sorry but you guys with your silly rechargers sound just as ridiculous as the uranium and hamster people. are you people serious?

the wireless mouse and keyboard would be the same as the keyboards and mice we have now. no stupid rechargers. you just plug the keyboard in to the computer via usb. in fact most people would probably never use it wirelessly. but the option would be there to unplug. you wouldnt lose your keyboard or mouse or anything when it is charging. it would be just like how laptops work. when i plug my laptop in im still able to use it. im just stuck to the wall for awhile. and who mentioned having to drain the battery first before recharging? hello? dude that reminds me of remote control cars i had when i was like 5. i cant remember the last time i used a product that required the person to drain the battery. ipods, ibooks, powerbooks, none of them need to have the battery drained! no battery memory!

also i know several people who have wireless mice that are optical and the battery (a small watch type battery) lasts about a year (or so the box says, its been going strong for 6 months so it lasts at least that long). so whoever said it must be about 1 month is either anticipating apple will make significantly worse batteries (possible) or just isnt thinking (ill assume this isnt true).

so guys. take a deep breath, chill. you can still do your homework (im sure thats a relief to many of you). no need for silly recharging stations. no need to replace your battery every month. dont get yourselves all worked up over nothing now, papa lemon is here to take care of you.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by Hemingray
Where I can see bluetooth really coming in handy is big peripherals, like scanners and printers and digital cameras. Those are the wires that bug me most.

Bluetooth has a very low datarate, more like USB than anything. While it would be nice to have a bluetooth scanner and you will see that some day, I'd not be too happy with the speed of data transfer.

Regardless how the keyboard and mice are recharged, it will still be nice to have a wireless system. For mice, having to drag around the cable is a pain, I always get caught up in it, so I went to a Intuos tablet. And as for clutter, put the rechargers and whatever behind the monitor/computer out of the way. This way you have a nice little cable free workspace.

[iGav]

Because you have to when you have a brand new TiBook battery......

And I quote Apple literature.....

"You only have to fully discharge and then charge your battery once to calibrate it. After that, you can connect and disconnect the power adapter when the battery is at any charge level.":D So thats what i've done!!;)

I have 2 now so that makes trains journeys alittle more safe!!

I remember the old ni-cads in RC cars..... you had to thermal charge them aswell for best results.......:D Blurry eye'd history..........

[TechLarry]

Unfortunately, I've become so fond of the Microsoft Office Keyboard that I don't think I could ever change again...

Bring on those MacOS X Drivers, dammit!

TL

[s10]

I'm sorry, but you are missing the point.

Why make a keyboard wireless if you still have that cable?
The % of people that would use it unplugged would be close to 0.
Why adding technology in a product that nobody would use? Just to make it more expensive? It doesn't make sense.

About the batteries in wireless mice. Lasting for 6 months?? I tried some out and believe me, they don't last that long. Far, far from it.
But even if it would last 6 months, you still need to charge it. Of course you could just change the batteries, but that would surely make a mice Or heavy (normal batteries) Or expensive to use (small batteries) but for sure it would be non-ecological.

No Bluetooth would be fab for remote-controlling your iMac (say to watch a dvd) with your iPod..........

Bluetooth is fantastic when you don't need to connect different tools to make them communicate. I love just getting in my car, and my phone automatically connects to my Bluetooth handsfree system without leaving my pocket.


and was that last frase really neccesary?

[Timothy]

I hope Apple isn't spending too many resources on developing this item; and, I certainly hope it doesn't add any cost to my computer, because so far, none of you have sold me on why I need it.

Aesthetically, I'll grant you, a wireless workspace would be cool...but if to get it I have to start managing things that have heretofore been hassle-free, I'll opt for the simpler solution. If I have to recharge my mouse and keyboard, that would drive me crazy. And, for what it provides me, I'd just choose not to use it wirelessly. Besides, I use a trackball, and wires present no problem for me as I don't move a mouse around my desk.

As for using Bluetooth for printers, scanners, and digital cameras...as has been mentioned, transfer speed is a huge issue. Why would I want a "wireless" scanner if it takes 10 times longer to transfer the image data to my computer? And printing? Same issue. For most of these issues, unless bluetooth provides a solution that is hassle-free, or provides enough benefits to outweigh any additional hassles, then it may become something useful.

My fear, however, is that many people have heard "bluetooth" for so long that any practicality of how it actually works has long been forgotten. And, if Apple uses this as a "highlight" of some upcoming MW, I'll be dissapointed. ;-)

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by s10
I'm sorry, but you are missing the point.

Why make a keyboard wireless if you still have that cable?
The % of people that would use it unplugged would be close to 0.
Why adding technology in a product that nobody would use? Just to make it more expensive? It doesn't make sense.

well i think you are completely missing the point here. i was hoping i would clear things up for people. pretending no one would use a wireless keyboard and mouse is stupid since people use them all the time. and as i said no elaborate chargers would be needed. just plug it into your usb port like you currently do. nothing fancy. no chargers. thats what usb does. it carries both power and data. as to why use it if you still have to plug it in some times? well someone lacks vision. ever used a laptop? o no i have to plug my laptop in sometimes. who cares, it still gives you more function having it run off batteries than if you couldnt. so you have to plug your mouse in sometimes who cares. you can still use it, it just gives you the option to be wirefree most of the time. really people this isnt a hard concept. anyone who has used a laptop should be familiar with what im talking about.

Originally posted by s10
About the batteries in wireless mice. Lasting for 6 months?? I tried some out and believe me, they don't last that long. Far, far from it.
But even if it would last 6 months, you still need to charge it. Of course you could just change the batteries, but that would surely make a mice Or heavy (normal batteries) Or expensive to use (small batteries) but for sure it would be non-ecological.

all i can say is you are wrong. period. you can check product descriptions and will find they last many months (some up to a year) and you could even use one and see for yourself how long it lasts. guess what? they last over 6 months. but i should say these are modern models. i have knowledge or experience with old wireless mice (this stuff has been out for many years).

[CHess]

Let's not get all huffy about things. Please?:rolleyes:

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by dukestreet


I have a USB Zip250 and it works without a power cord, everything goes through the USB cable.

Besides, if Apple designs it correctly the recharger would be a little caddy that you place the mouse or keyboard in when not in use, like cordless phones. This would make it easy to recharge and provide a little home for the mice so they don't get lost as easily.

I'm looking forward to them.:D

You think a Zip takes up a lot of power, do you? Batterys can charge at low levels and, in fact, charge better but it would be more like Apple to give the iPod options of fast or full.

As for a caddy, that creates the problem of reducing battery life significantly.

[rainman::|:|]

s10:

You're right, i think... Apple is trying to simplify wherever it can, not make things worse... I just cannot see Apple ever making wireless keyboard/mice. Too much of a specialty product; there would be no profit in it. I don't mean to get personal, but i think all you people that are expecting it, are just wishing soooo hard... Look at Job's business/product model, wireless mice/keyboards have no place in it... how could apple make money with this, competing with other wireless mouse companies... doesn't make sense. none of it really does... the average consumer doesn't care about the mouse cable, because they've never imagined anything but it, and they're *not* going to shell out big bucks for something like that... tho Apple could probably make the damn mouse cable a little longer...

now some specialty product, meant to replace mice, that i could see... like a wacom tablet, one that uses a stylus and wireless mouse... or some fabulous cool input device no one has ever thought of... how about a bluetooth neural interface??
hehe

:)
pnw

[AmbitiousLemon]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
s10:

You're right, i think... Apple is trying to simplify wherever it can, not make things worse... I just cannot see Apple ever making wireless keyboard/mice. Too much of a specialty product; there would be no profit in it. I don't mean to get personal, but i think all you people that are expecting it, are just wishing soooo hard... Look at Job's business/product model, wireless mice/keyboards have no place in it... how could apple make money with this, competing with other wireless mouse companies... doesn't make sense. none of it really does... the average consumer doesn't care about the mouse cable, because they've never imagined anything but it, and they're *not* going to shell out big bucks for something like that... tho Apple could probably make the damn mouse cable a little longer...

now some specialty product, meant to replace mice, that i could see... like a wacom tablet, one that uses a stylus and wireless mouse... or some fabulous cool input device no one has ever thought of... how about a bluetooth neural interface??
hehe

:)
pnw

actually i never said apple would do it. i was simply explaining the technology involved. s10 was saying it wouldnt happen because of technology issues regarding things he didnt understand. i was just trying to explain how it could work and what errors he made regarding the technology. in the discussion regarding this some weeks ago i made it quite clear i didnt think apple would go in this direction for some time. but the reason is more along the lines of what you stated above not because the technology makes it unreasonable.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
s10:

You're right, i think... Apple is trying to simplify wherever it can, not make things worse... I just cannot see Apple ever making wireless keyboard/mice. Too much of a specialty product; there would be no profit in it. I don't mean to get personal, but i think all you people that are expecting it, are just wishing soooo hard... Look at Job's business/product model, wireless mice/keyboards have no place in it... how could apple make money with this, competing with other wireless mouse companies... doesn't make sense. none of it really does... the average consumer doesn't care about the mouse cable, because they've never imagined anything but it, and they're *not* going to shell out big bucks for something like that... tho Apple could probably make the damn mouse cable a little longer...

now some specialty product, meant to replace mice, that i could see... like a wacom tablet, one that uses a stylus and wireless mouse... or some fabulous cool input device no one has ever thought of... how about a bluetooth neural interface??
hehe

I TOTALLY disagree; for starters, when has Apple NOT been the head of the pack with new things like this. Also, when has Apple cared about bumping up the price a little to add something REALLY cool (HELLO, LCD iMAC). Thirdly, how would Apple be competing with other 3rd parties? That is like saying that the Pro mouse and keyboard compete with 3rd parties. Hey, Apple ships their machines with an optical mouse, they are directly competing with optical mouse companies, nothing do with adding something that is cool. Does the "average consumer" care whether their mouse is optical or balled?????

It is inevitable that Apple will introduce wireless input devices across the desktop board and it is EXTREMELY likely that Apple will be first to do this. Now, whether they do it now or in 5 years depends on when it is right in the market but my money on it being sooner rather than later.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


It really isn't Apple's style to support old hardware. It would be like a rumour of an upcoming USB iPod... not likely to happen.

Neither is a device with USB bandwidth likely to be designed to clog up a perfectly useful firewire port.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


Neither is a device with USB bandwidth likely to be designed to clog up a perfectly useful firewire port.

How does a battery charger have USB bandwidth?

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by iGAV



What happens though (sorry I'm not upto speed on Bluetooth yet) if you have more than one mac, all with bluetooth and using wireless keyboards... they wouldn't interfere with each other would they?? Or would it be dependant on range?? or is there a imited amount of macs you could have together???

Just wondering.....:D

I've heard it being discussed as being like the old infrared networking specs... if the device connects at all, it knows the device it is connecting to, there is an ID involved, just like airport.

The teacher going around doodling on the students desktops with a bluetooth whatsis, would probably have admin override for those accounts and could do whatever she wanted. The kids would have to figure out for themselves how to make the smart kids keypresses go to their workstations quiz.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


How does a battery charger have USB bandwidth?

It doesn't, I said a device with USB bandwidth would be clogging up a perfectly good firewire port, just to get some juice, because someone was griping that these mostly as yet non existant rechargeable bluetooth devices couldn't possibly be charged fast enough for them any other way if they couldn't charge the the gizmo with firewire (Firewire does put out more juice)

If you are going to use firewire just for the sake of charging something that doesn't need firewire connectivity, you are potentially terminating a firewire chain, cloggiing that firewire port so to speak. Not too many USB devices have a firewire port.

I would think the most natural way for a bluetooth device to be charged, would be via USB, since that is the port that would be opened up. If your wireless keyboard, mouse whatever needs a charge, take the bluetooth plug out of the USB port, and use a cable.

The problem is- USB isn't that live a wire, as far as power, in fact most USB hubs need external power just for the devices attached to them to see each other. But it may be enough, depending on the power needed to recharge the bluetooth gizmos batteries. And if you can't get enough juice via USB, plug the damn thing into a regular socket. Or create some sort of dock for the keyboard and mouse, whatever, while you are a sleep, the way iBooks in schools recharge on a cart between classes.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


It doesn't, I said a device with USB bandwidth would be clogging up a perfectly good firewire port, just to get some juice, because someone was griping that these mostly as yet non existant rechargeable bluetooth devices couldn't possibly be charged fast enough for them any other way if they couldn't charge the the gizmo with firewire (Firewire does put out more juice)

If you are going to use firewire just for the sake of charging something that doesn't need firewire connectivity, you are potentially terminating a firewire chain, cloggiing that firewire port so to speak. Not too many USB devices have a firewire port.

I would think the most natural way for a bluetooth device to be charged, would be via USB, since that is the port that would be opened up. If your wireless keyboard, mouse whatever needs a charge, take the bluetooth plug out of the USB port, and use a cable.

The problem is- USB isn't that live a wire, as far as power, in fact most USB hubs need external power just for the devices attached to them to see each other. But it may be enough, depending on the power needed to recharge the bluetooth gizmos batteries. And if you can't get enough juice via USB, plug the damn thing into a regular socket. Or create some sort of dock for the keyboard and mouse, whatever, while you are a sleep, the way iBooks in schools recharge on a cart between classes.

Why would Apple release a KB and mouse that needs a BlueTooth USB plug??? Surely, if they were going to release this stuff, they would release their machines with dedicated ports for BlueTooth devices. Also, saying that the charger cloggs up a firewire port is like saying that the iPod cloggs up a port. I do not consider doing something that helps your lifestyle to be a clogg.

[s10]

I know that some people would like to have things wireless. That's why there are wireless keyboards and mice on the market since many years.
Their marketshare is very small though, and unless some great technology will come through, this wont change.

Basicly what you are saying is that you don't need a charger, just plug it in the USB socket like you would with a normal mouse or keyboard.
Fine, it could easily work. But you would end up with a Bluetooth receiver in one USB port, to make it all work wireless (until it come build in and everybody has a new Mac), and at least one cable to recharge your keyboard and mouse in another USB port...
I use 1 USb port for my SoundSiticks, 1 for my printer, 1 for my scanner, and the one on my keyboard for my camera or for my pen or joystick.

So I need at least 6 USB port to get it all working without having to change plugs etc. Meaning that I need a hub and a powered one too.

So just because I want a wireless keyboard and mouse, I have to add a hub and another powersocket.....

So why bother? I know for myself (and for 99% of Mac users) that they will never have the need to move the keyboard or mouse further away from the screen than the usb cable lenght.

Unless Bluetooth comes build in, in desktops and in all kinds of "light" peripherals, I don't see why people would bother.

For Laptops it's a slightly different story.

And you should know that there has always been, and will always be, a big difference in what product discriptions say and what real usage teaches you.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


Why would Apple release a KB and mouse that needs a BlueTooth USB plug??? Surely, if they were going to release this stuff, they would release their machines with dedicated ports for BlueTooth devices. Also, saying that the charger cloggs up a firewire port is like saying that the iPod cloggs up a port. I do not consider doing something that helps your lifestyle to be a clogg.

The Bluetooth gizmo goes in an existing usb port, One that would otherwise be going to a keyboard. You want to buy a brand new mac just to use bluetooth built onto the motherboard, go ahead.

An iPod is also USING the firewire port for something other than charging batteries.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


The Bluetooth gizmo goes in an existing usb port, One that would otherwise be going to a keyboard. You want to buy a brand new mac just to use bluetooth built onto the motherboard, go ahead.

An iPod is also USING the firewire port for something other than charging batteries.

Let me put it to you this way, iPod takes 3 hours to fully charge doesn't it (I did not bother looking up the fact just threw in what I thought was correct) and FireWire has far more power than USB. Therefore, if iPod was on USB, how long do you think it would take to charge? I would not imagine that there would be too much difference in battery charge time between an iPod and a BlueTooth device battery. So, working on that basis, do you really think that Apple would release something that takes that long to charge?

As for the "Bluetooth gizmo (going) in an existing usb port", I have already discussed that it would make sense and would follow Apple's trends to just add a BlueTooth port to the machine. If you don't think Apple would make a product that requires a new computer to work without extra adaptors, just look at ADC. ADC was a GREAT idea except that it reduced the potential market of the new monitors heavily. I see that Apple would do exactly the same thing with BlueTooth devices; isolate old users for the sake of moving forward.

[bhayek3]

I think it would be really cool if the mouse or the keyboard had like a button that you pused and it wound up automaticlly like a cord thing on a vaccume. That way when done you you just push a button and it winds up, and if it runs out of batt power, then you can just plug in and go. Now that would be sweet

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by bhayek3
I think it would be really cool if the mouse or the keyboard had like a button that you pused and it wound up automaticlly like a cord thing on a vaccume.

A mouse with a retractable cord is available, but its not exactly stylish. Also, by having to house the cable, you end up with a bigger mouse. I'll stick with the wireless ones.

http://www.logitech.com/cf/products/productoverview.cfm/3443

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


Let me put it to you this way, iPod takes 3 hours to fully charge doesn't it (I did not bother looking up the fact just threw in what I thought was correct) and FireWire has far more power than USB. Therefore, if iPod was on USB, how long do you think it would take to charge? I would not imagine that there would be too much difference in battery charge time between an iPod and a BlueTooth device battery. So, working on that basis, do you really think that Apple would release something that takes that long to charge?


I think they would make something that might charge while you sleep, for example. Trickle charge in a little dock.

Even if the amount of power is the same between iPod and any bluetooth device, there is no need for it to be plugged into firewire for its juice. What if it were more like the power needs of a remote control? Or a Cellphone? The way I watch TV, its almost like typing. I change the batteries in a remote perhaps once a year. A cellphone can die fairly quickly during airtime, but its signal strength has to reach a tower that may be miles away during that time, not something across the room. On standby, a cellphone can last a week or more.

If you are so desparate that you need your mouse and keyboard right away, and the battery is dead, it would probably double as a USB keyboard under such dire circumstances. And if you have a firewire port you can afford to use as a 'quick charger' you probably have some other handy source of electricity as well that could pump it with juice everybit as quickly.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter
If you are so desparate that you need your mouse and keyboard right away, and the battery is dead, it would probably double as a USB keyboard under such dire circumstances. And if you have a firewire port you can afford to use as a 'quick charger' you probably have some other handy source of electricity as well that could pump it with juice everybit as quickly.

You saying that most PowerBook and iBook users use their FireWire ports all the time and that, if they don't, they carry around portable generators?

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


You saying that most PowerBook and iBook users use their FireWire ports all the time and that, if they don't, they carry around portable generators?

No.

Its good that firewire CAN power something such as an external drive. That doesn't mean firewire should be the first place to turn to charge your PDA, keyboard, mouse or cell phone. Its a communications port, not a electrical outlet.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


No.

Its good that firewire CAN power something such as an external drive. That doesn't mean firewire should be the first place to turn to charge your PDA, keyboard, mouse or cell phone. Its a communications port, not a electrical outlet.


And, working on the factor that Apple tries to minimise cables and powerpoints, where would you charge the battery?

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen



And, working on the factor that Apple tries to minimise cables and powerpoints, where would you charge the battery?

One way they minimize cables is by having cables serve a dual function. If that cable is ideal for sending pictures to a monitor, highbandth data to or from storage or capture devices, or low bandwidth data from input devices, there is the monitor cable, the firewire cable, and the USB cable respectively.

One could possibly charge a PalmPilot by hooking it up to a powered monitor cable, but it wouldn't be a terribly elegant solution. One might have to unplug the monitor. But boy does it recharge fast!

Perhaps they could create a wireless power source by putting your quotes in a hamster cage, because they represent a perpetual motion circular argument, to create the Apple iTroll Tesla Coil Negative field charged response generator. Although totally wireless, it requires 6 firewire cables and an asshole. Or someone with poor reading comprehension and too much time on their hands.

My bets are that if you want a bluetooth mouse or keyboard to recharge via firewire, rather than using some other source of power, either trickling from USB overnight, or some other sort of wall wart, you will have to build your own. Thing is, these wireless keyboards will not have to be charged THAT often or THAT quickly in most cases. Probably not too many people using firewire to charge cellphones or PDAs either. Firewire does make sense charging something with considerable bandwidth needs and high power needs- Charging on the same port the item is connecting and sending data on.

There have been solar powered PowerBooks. You could use the sun to power your Powerbook battery to power your firewire circuit to recharge your bluetooth keyboard that for some odd reason won't connect to USB although the bandwidth is more ideal for USB than firewire, because your Notebook not only never needs electricity, it doesn't have any AC adapted to DC source input at all, except this mythical powerbook can charge by firewire, apparently in some minds, the standard Apple created for charging batteries.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter


A-HOY up there... earth is this way

...

...

Stoped being a wanker yet???

[Trebor]

Hey All. Long time lurker here. But i wanted to post this because i remembered something that may be useful here. Remember not too long ago when doctors put the first artificial heart in a human again after like twenty years? This new heart was all self contained. Its internal battery was recharged through the skin by placing some sort of power charging unit over the skin. I don't know exactly how it works, but the point is...it's wirelessly rechargable. Could this somehow or the other find its way into new mice/keyboards?

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by Trebor
Hey All. Long time lurker here. But i wanted to post this because i remembered something that may be useful here. Remember not too long ago when doctors put the first artificial heart in a human again after like twenty years? This new heart was all self contained. Its internal battery was recharged through the skin by placing some sort of power charging unit over the skin. I don't know exactly how it works, but the point is...it's wirelessly rechargable. Could this somehow or the other find its way into new mice/keyboards?

That is VERY possible and about 1 million times cooler but sounds FAR to expensive.

I'm gonna dream though
:)

[Mr. Anderson]

Wireless recharging is quite simple actually using RF and/or microwaves. But power supply and battery still need to be relatively close. This means it would still be a caddy of somesort, not across the desktop, or across the room.

[alex_ant]

Originally posted by Wry Cooter
Perhaps they could create a wireless power source by putting your quotes in a hamster cage, because they represent a perpetual motion circular argument, to create the Apple iTroll Tesla Coil Negative field charged response generator. Although totally wireless, it requires 6 firewire cables and an asshole. Or someone with poor reading comprehension and too much time on their hands.

Am I the only person lurking around who finds watching smelly teenagers getting worked up over Bluetooth mice so inexplicably amusing? There are starving children in the world, and you zit-faced tossers are having a ruck over, of all things, Bluetooth computer peripherals. Go get drunk or something, wankers.

Alex

[j763]

Originally posted by alex_ant

Am I the only person lurking around who finds watching smelly teenagers getting worked up over Bluetooth mice so inexplicably amusing? There are starving children in the world, and you zit-faced tossers are having a ruck over, of all things, Bluetooth computer peripherals. Go get drunk or something, wankers.

Alex

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[mmmdreg]

I reckon that rechargeable mouses and keyboards aren't really needed. I'd rather see an Apple-branded multi-button mouse. I really can't see the need for a wireless keyboard though.

-Dreg-

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by mmmdreg
I reckon that rechargeable mouses and keyboards aren't really needed. I'd rather see an Apple-branded multi-button mouse. I really can't see the need for a wireless keyboard though.

-Dreg-

I generally find that the extension cord that came with my G4 is MORE than enough to last all situations with my keyboard and I RARELY have trouble with my mouse. On the other hand, I am always up for bringing in a cool new product to do things slightly differently.

[Wry Cooter]

Originally posted by madamimadamtimallen


I generally find that the extension cord that came with my G4 is MORE than enough to last all situations with my keyboard and I RARELY have trouble with my mouse. On the other hand, I am always up for bringing in a cool new product to do things slightly differently.

I have been in a situation where wireless keyboard could have come in handy... moving about... no desk yet no real computer furniture for weeks at a time. I have had macs set up on coffee tables, and on top of dressers and have sometimes been over six feet away from the monitor while typing (If the only seat around is a couch or bed, you tend to want to put your feet up) I don't think wireless keyboards are the be all end all, but I would very possibly purchase one if available.

[mcrain]

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
all i can say is you are wrong. period. you can check product descriptions and will find they last many months (some up to a year) and you could even use one and see for yourself how long it lasts. guess what? they last over 6 months. but i should say these are modern models. i have knowledge or experience with old wireless mice (this stuff has been out for many years).

I have a black IBM desktop computer that I bought. It runs a 200 Mhz MMX processor. I bought it when it was top of the top of the line.

It came with a wireless mouse. I've used, or my wife has used, that computer since my second year of law school. (1996 until now), and I've only replaced the battery once.

I know the battery wasn't anything special, but it lasted for a long long time, and it never was recharged. I think it was 1 or 2 AAA batteries, and they lasted wireless that whole time.

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by mcrain


I have a black IBM desktop computer that I bought. It runs a 200 Mhz MMX processor. I bought it when it was top of the top of the line.

It came with a wireless mouse. I've used, or my wife has used, that computer since my second year of law school. (1996 until now), and I've only replaced the battery once.

I know the battery wasn't anything special, but it lasted for a long long time, and it never was recharged. I think it was 1 or 2 AAA batteries, and they lasted wireless that whole time.

If I bought a machine like that, my batteries would still be full.... why.... because I wouldn't EVER use it.
;)

[Spock]

I was just wathing TechTV and seen a boot with a sensor in its heel that could generate power by waling on the heel if Apple could put the sensors under each key and in the mouse click it would charge my Mouse and keyboard I am alway on my Mac.

[bobindashadows]

Originally posted by iGAV
Wellllllll........

If the batteries can last 1.5 months per charge then that is pretty good..... the same with the keyboard...... if it's this amount of usage I could probably use it......:p

What happens though (sorry I'm not upto speed on Bluetooth yet) if you have more than one mac, all with bluetooth and using wireless keyboards... they wouldn't interfere with each other would they?? Or would it be dependant on range?? or is there a imited amount of macs you could have together???

Just wondering.....:D

chances are you would plug in the keyboard/mouse to the comp the first time you use it and that would tell the comp the keyboard/mouse's serial number, so they wouldn't interfere. Comp 1 would respond to keyboard 1 and mouse 1, not keyboard 2 and mouse 2 because it's set up to listen to keyboard and mouse 1