Dev Tools with Every Mac?

[arn]

This eWeek article (http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=1865&a=25069,00.asp) indicates that Apple is now bundling developer tools with every Mac... not just with retail OS X:


Apple's Java team showed me their latest work at last month's JavaOne conference, where I discovered that the Apple Project Builder development suite (www.eweek.com/links) is now included on every new Macintosh. Previously, these tools came only with the retail version of Mac OS X, but now, they're available (though not pre-installed) on every new Apple machine.

OS X Dev Tools have always been provided free... but required a lengthy download if you hadn't bought Retail OS X. Bundling with every Mac would be a welcome addition.

[alex_ant]

What Apple needs to do now is bundle a better compiler.

Alex

[AmbitiousLemon]

By that time, I was writing Java rather than BASIC, and Java ran much better on Windows 95 or later than it did on the Mac before the arrival of OS X. I suppose that's why I didn't make a fuss. Today, though, there's a better way: a Unix-family operating system, with a first-rate graphical interface, supported by commercial applications, with a mainstream development language. Write on the Mac, "Run anywhere."

Tell me why not to go back to the Mac at peter_coffee@ziffdavis.com

that last comment is interesting. another convert due to osx. lets hope the emails he gets regarding that last comment dont make him rethink is move back to mac

[Mr. Anderson]

I bought a TiPB in November. Does anyone know if Apple Developer Tools comes with the machine? I couldn't find it, so I'm assuming it doesn't. $20 for the CD doesn't sound too much to get and running, especially with the java. I'd love to know from someone who has worked with Developer Tools what they think of it.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by dukestreet
I bought a TiPB in November. Does anyone know if Apple Developer Tools comes with the machine? I couldn't find it, so I'm assuming it doesn't. $20 for the CD doesn't sound too much to get and running, especially with the java. I'd love to know from someone who has worked with Developer Tools what they think of it.

They are availlabe as a free download from Apple's ADC website (free registration required). 200 MB...ouch!

Even if your TiPB did have them, they would be out-of-date since there was an update in December.

[Mr. Anderson]

I'm going to order the CD then, not attempt the 200meg download, thats huge!

[Beej]

Uh, those tools were nowhere to be seen with my sister's new iMac... I downloaded them for her (gotta love cable :D)

[pimentoLoaf]

Much of MacOS X is UNIX stuff that's a little weird anyway, and sooner or later complete neophytes will start playing with it all, and the DevTools are the most fun of all.

Me? I really dig them pulsating blue thermometer bars...

[madamimadam]

Originally posted by dukestreet
I'd love to know from someone who has worked with Developer Tools what they think of it.

Well, it is a bit hard to comment on the Tools as a whole since most developers will never use them all but I do a lot of Java and WebObjects work and it is FANTASTIC for that. In fact, I could not find an easier to work with option anywhere else (too many bugs in Macromedia UltraDev and just don't get me started on Sun's Forte for Java).

[Beej]

Originally posted by dukestreet
I'd love to know from someone who has worked with Developer Tools what they think of it. I use them for all the programming I have to do for my Comp Sci course. They're GREAT! Free, easy, pretty, lots of features. All round sweet.

[iGav]

I got the developers tools when I bought OSX when it first came out, when they released OSX.1 I purchased the 10.1 uprgrade because it came with the latest set of developers tools........

They're quite cool though, not had as much chance to play around with them as I'd like though!!! As I shift to do more technical work aswell as creative I'll pick them up........ I look forward to really learning them though!!:D

[Mr. Anderson]

Well, sounds great. But what about resources to learn how to use the Tools, manuals, reference, tutorials, etc. Knowing Apple it will all be electronic, I'd rather have a book.

[leathekd]

I just started with the Dev tools and I was wondering if ProjectBuilder included function popup/completion for Java (Borland calls it CodeInsight or something). It's a pretty handy feature...

Thanks,
David

[wdnx]

Dukestreet, unfortunately, all of the supplied docs are electronic. There are a few pdfs you can print out if you want, and there are a few manuals that you can order as hardcopies from vervante (http://catalog.vervante.com/browseGroup.cfm?item_group_id=61316), but for the most part, you're forced to lug your laptop around to read the docs.

Depending on what you're planning on doing though, you'd do well to pick up a copy of Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201726831/qid=1018362910/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_67_1/104-4214052-0356728), or one of the ADC/O'Reilly (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001606/ref=pd_sim_books/104-4214052-0356728) books which can help get you up and running with Project Builder and Interface Builder. Of course, if you just want to muck about with c++, make, etc., just go to any store well stocked with O'Reilly books...it's hard to go wrong with O'Reilly.

[Xapplimatic]

Now that Apple supplies all the tools, they should supply directions for using them for lightly to moderately experienced programmers who would like to jump in. I mean, the one page connect the cords diagram and push the power switch document was genious really :) ... but a few other documents should also come with it me thinks..

Troubleshooting manualette ... (if the computer isn't working, how are you going to access the online documents? !)

How to start programming using the supplied dev tools.. (Few would rather page back and forth between an online help application and the dev tool applications themselves when they can simply have a book in hand..)

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by wdnx
Of course, if you just want to muck about with c++, make, etc., just go to any store well stocked with O'Reilly books...it's hard to go wrong with O'Reilly.

O'Reilly is like an old friend, actually. I've programmed in C, C++ and python but haven't touched any of that in about 4 years. I'm interested in Java now. Just playing around, maybe some webApps would be nice. I can get the reference books, we have them at work. I was just hoping to get something to help me with working my way through the Apple stuff.

Thanks.

[Pants]

Originally posted by Xapplimatic
Now that Apple supplies all the tools, they should supply directions for using them for lightly to moderately experienced programmers who would like to jump in. I mean, the one page connect the cords diagram and push the power switch document was genious really :) ... but a few other documents should also come with it me thinks..

Troubleshooting manualette ... (if the computer isn't working, how are you going to access the online documents? !)

How to start programming using the supplied dev tools.. (Few would rather page back and forth between an online help application and the dev tool applications themselves when they can simply have a book in hand..)

uhh...they're DEVELOPERS TOOLS not 'instructions on writing your first programme" ! if you want to fart about learning to programme, then quite honestly, theres enough good stuff on the web or in books already. Having said that, the docs that they ship with are actually pretty good, if limited, but then, they are developers tools and pre-suppose a certain level of competance. And come on, if your computers 'not working' and you cant fix it because you cant see the online help docs, your hardly going to be worried about finishing off codeing quake 4 are you? :)

[TechLarry]

Originally posted by dukestreet
I'm going to order the CD then, not attempt the 200meg download, thats huge!

Hehe :) Wimp!

TL

[TechLarry]

Originally posted by Beej
Uh, those tools were nowhere to be seen with my sister's new iMac... I downloaded them for her (gotta love cable :D)

If it is an LCD iMac, they certainly are there. I had them.

Don't remember which folder, though.

TL

[TechLarry]

Is there a book that teaches OSX, C, programming, everthing in ONE book ? At least a starter version?

I need a complete reference for the total idiot.

"MacOS X C Programming For Dummies" would probably do :)

I don't know C (objective, or not). I know Pascal, Clarion, RBase, some SQL, etc... but always found C to be too damned cryptic for my tastes.

TL

Originally posted by wdnx
Dukestreet, unfortunately, all of the supplied docs are electronic. There are a few pdfs you can print out if you want, and there are a few manuals that you can order as hardcopies from vervante (http://catalog.vervante.com/browseGroup.cfm?item_group_id=61316), but for the most part, you're forced to lug your laptop around to read the docs.

Depending on what you're planning on doing though, you'd do well to pick up a copy of Cocoa Programming for Mac OS X (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201726831/qid=1018362910/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_67_1/104-4214052-0356728), or one of the ADC/O'Reilly (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596001606/ref=pd_sim_books/104-4214052-0356728) books which can help get you up and running with Project Builder and Interface Builder. Of course, if you just want to muck about with c++, make, etc., just go to any store well stocked with O'Reilly books...it's hard to go wrong with O'Reilly.

[Mr. Anderson]

Originally posted by TechLarry
Hehe :) Wimp!

I have a cable modem at home and T3 at work. I'd not really have a problem with the download, but its just general personal preference to have a CD incase I need to reinstall or something else. Its more of a convenience than anything else, and if it is an Apple CD, not something I burned myself, it will be more noticable.

I've downloaded over a Gig over a 56k modem in Alaska - thats how you truly come to appreciate speed.

[wdnx]

Originally posted by TechLarry
Is there a book that teaches OSX, C, programming, everthing in ONE book ? At least a starter version?

I need a complete reference for the total idiot.

"MacOS X C Programming For Dummies" would probably do

There isn't one that I know of, but I'm guessing if there were, you'd be better off without it as it would either be too big to lift, or short on essential details -- all iin one solutions are usually pretty lousy.

It would probably be best if you picked up a few separate books like Kelley & Pohl's: A Book On C (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0201183994/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_1/104-4214052-0356728) (for complete beginners) or the bible, K&R's: The C Programming Language (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0131103628/ref=pd_sr_ec_ir_b/104-4214052-0356728) to learn C, then read Apple's PDF on Objective C (http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Cocoa/ObjectiveC/ObjC.pdf), and then get one or both of the two Cocoa books I mentioned earlier.

[conceptDawg]

The DevTools are actually incredible, especially considering that they're free. I can't think of ANY other company that gives this kind of quality stuff away for nothin'.

As for documentation:

There are over 300 classes in the Cocoa framework alone. These classes are changing as Apple irons out bugs and adds new features. If there were any detailed documents in hardcopy form they would be outdated within 3 months. I'm betting that they'll come out with an "Inside Macintosh" for OSX once they get things somewhat stable code-wise (although that could be years...not months).

Now, if you include the other "Frameworks" that are part of OS X (Java, Carbon, CoreFoundation, etc....) then you are DEEEEEP in documentation that would look like the old AU/X documentation set. (In case you never saw it, it was about 20 of the 3" ring binders completely full).

Bottom line, is that there is simply no need or use for THAT much hard-copy documentation on a subject such as this.

Now, if you want an OS X programming primer. Let me suggest Aaron Hillegass's book, "Cocoa Programming for OS X". It is MUCHO better than the O'Reilly book for Cocoa (which is actually just a translation of some of the Apple docs). Once you read the Hillegass book you should be able to jump in and so some fairly good applications.