Apple Set Top Box?

[arn]

CNet's Rumor Mill (http://news.com.com/2011-1088-878368.html?tag=rh_skinny) reports that Apple may have had some interest in purchasing Moxi Digital (http://news.com.com/2100-1040-801956.html). Apple's been on a bit of a buying spree... with various purchases centered around their Pro Video market. Moxi Digital would have been an departure... and a bit of a curiousity... Moxi Digital has their own version of the digital hub:

The Moxi MC is a set-top box design using the company's middleware, which runs between a modified version of the Linux operating system and interactive services, such as a digital video recorder, digital music jukebox, enhanced DVD playback as well as online capabilities including instant messaging, e-mail, Web browsing and chat.

Not a clear fit for Apple's (public) plans...

[RicFlair]

When I was at the Apple Store in Columbus around december. I saw a manual that said "Apple Set Top Box" on it. It was at the Geneus bar. Well on the cabinets on the back. I am not sure if this was a manual for the old one or a new one. But I kinda doubt it is a new one. But ya never know.

[arn]

Originally posted by RicFlair
When I was at the Apple Store in Columbus around december. I saw a manual that said "Apple Set Top Box" on it. It was at the Geneus bar. Well on the cabinets on the back. I am not sure if this was a manual for the old one or a new one. But I kinda doubt it is a new one. But ya never know.

prob for the old one (http://www.macrumors.com/Media/settopfront.jpg)...

arn

[Screamingbeaver]

I've been following Moxi for a bit now and I can't wait 'till it's release. I think this a great concept and I would surly use it. I use Ultimate TV now(yeah, in know it MS) and it it awesome. I love the service. The PVR is great. I haven't used a VHS tape in a year. The added features of the Moxi would be awesome! And, if Apple got involved...that would truely be an ultimate TV! It would kick everyones butt.


'Beaver

[Mr. Anderson]

This does seem a bit of a departure for Apple, but who knows, a settop box is another point that can be attached to the digital hub.

From the Moxi article,
Moxi debuts in what is shaping up to be the latest gold rush for technology companies. Microsoft, Intel, Apple Computer and the major PC companies, among others, are coming out with technology that will bridge the gap between the TV, a fixture in the home, and computer technologies.

Maybe Apples trying to prevent other companies from capitalizing on something they see being a big item, but maybe not for a couple of years. But Apple hasn't bought Moxie yet.

[3rdpath]

while we're all posting rehashes about the next g4 speed increase apple is looking sooo far into the future. lets face it, even increasing their 5% share of the computer market doesn't guarantee long-term survival. and the computer market is going to change in ways that no-one expects. so they're diversifying into software, periph companies, becoming pals with panasonic, and maybe thinking about moxie's set-top box thingee.....

so at some point you'll use your mac and their video software to make your dvd that'll go out their new firewire co's technology to the moxie box that will bluetooth the content to every monitor in your house-and your phone will be the remote control.

obviously, i'm not inventing any wheels here but my point is that it's all going to be integrated and apple is taking the steps to be competitive in the future. i really doubt they'll look at themselves as a computer company in the next 5 to 10 years.

having said that, where's my dual 1.4, ddr, rapid i/o dream box?

[oldMac]

I just want standards for connecting and interfacing audio/video components.

We wouldn't stand for such hacks as the "universal remote" in Computer land.

[Macmaniac]

This seems very interseting, I wonder what will come of it. Yes a good remote would be nice, it would be snow with silver buttons, and a chrome apple on the back.

[iGav]

I think it would be an area for Apple to research..... especially with the rise of Interactive TV......

I like what 3rdpath has to say, it seems quite grounded, and feasible and would definitly be cool!!!

I still see the TV as the main focal point of any living space, but I don't see why this can't all be linked to the Mac, and controlled directly from here??

Access any parts of your house from you mac for lifestyle, climate control, security etc, aswell as for entertainment puposes, such as audio in seperate rooms, itelligent video etc......

And links from the mac to kitchen appliances that are smart etc..... all this would really push the whole Digital Hub thing along...... it maybe a decade away, but I forsee something similar happenning in the not too distant future!!

Actually Bill Gates has such a system in his house running Windows 2000, thing is though, the system probably screws up and makes the house too hot in summer and freezes the place up in winter...... then crashes!!! so it'd need to be alittle better than that!!

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/nycu/tech/billgate/gatehigh.htm

Mayzin':p

[eyelikeart]

I'm not sure if I believe it or not...

but at this point it wouldn't surprise me too much if Apple did get involved...

Apple is trying to fit into most categories where other computer companies have yet to scratch upon...and I think it's in doing so that Apple will gain more market share...

I predict an integrated system one day that all controls from a G4 (or G5)....tv...stereo...video....

it'll be a beautiful thing! :p

[mischief]

If we add 2 things to iPod we have the crossover device:

IRda

Bluetooth/Airport

Adding these two things could make for a Universal remote that can be programmed for any device. In addition it may be possible to transfer data through the iPod via Bluetooth/Airport to a set-top box. If the set top box is essentially an iMac............... Or perhaps an Airport base-station with built in Cable/DSL/56K modem, DVD, G3 1Ghz, nVidia GeForce 4.........Think "Y-Box" :D

[3rdpath]

while reading iGAV's post a light went off ( could be a detached retina...)

since the tv is the center of the house-what if these large screens from apple are really aimed at the future television market. yes, they're expensive but what if you didn't need both a tv and computer monitor. and have you seen the prices of the plasma screens anyway? once again, i think we need to look outside of the "apple" box.

[mischief]

I know I'd much prefer a 23" Apple LCD to my clunky old Panasonic TV. I'd also (of course) much prefer a G4 with AT LEAST an nVidia GeForce 2 MX.

[Fwink!]

Why not an Apple TV itself, call it the iBoob.

[TechLarry]

Screaming Beaver (I'll leave that alone, for now :))

I agree with you about Ultimate TV. I've had it for about 4 month's, but only had one LNB in my dish. Even with only one LNB, it completely changed how I use TV.

Last night, I had a dual-LNB element installed and the second line run. MAN, what I can do now!

I originally chose UTV over Tivo for three reasons. One, there was a rebate and it was $50 cheaper. Two, Tivo didn't have dual-channel at the time. Three, Tivo was in financial trouble at the time, and I figured that if anyone would survive a shake-out in the DVR business, it would be Microsoft!

Wow, how close to being wrong was I! As you know, MS had a shake-up a few months ago in it's TV department, and it was lookin' real bad for a while there. I saw myself with a $200 piece of hardware without programming support.

But, not only has that seemed to go away as a reason for worry, but the UTV 3.5 update they released and beaconed down last Friday is awesome, isn't it! It is so, so much faster, and they finally got rid of those stupid, STUPID big help buttons that took up 1/3 of the program listing when you called it up.

Along with about 20 other improvements.

I still have reservations for paying $10 a month for what comes down to a TV listing (especially when I already had one supplied by DirecTV), but I could never give this up now :)

TL


Originally posted by Screamingbeaver
I've been following Moxi for a bit now and I can't wait 'till it's release. I think this a great concept and I would surly use it. I use Ultimate TV now(yeah, in know it MS) and it it awesome. I love the service. The PVR is great. I haven't used a VHS tape in a year. The added features of the Moxi would be awesome! And, if Apple got involved...that would truely be an ultimate TV! It would kick everyones butt.


'Beaver

[Buggy]

I must concure with 3rdpath... apple is thinking way ahead on this one.

From what I have heard re: new internet protocals. Things are going to change and no one is safe if they continue on the same path of bigger HD's, more Ram, bigger processors = marketshare. Though this is not a bad thing. Just not the only thing.

This one is definately a "think Different" moment.

[TheT]

I don't think what we all hope for will ever happen: Apple will never go in the TV market. Steve Jobs once said that he doesn't believe that the PC/Mac will ever come together, therefore no Mac-TV-Box. Quote: "You go to your TV set when you want to turn your brain off. You go to your computer when you want to turn your brain on." Sure, Apple could just sell another set-top box, but would that help the digital hub strategy the way apple wants it, as a creative center?

[Screamingbeaver]

Hey TechLarry:

I agree with you totally. The Upgrade the UTV was great. The "auto record" deal is great. Just plug in a name or keyword and it'll record any show that matches. I'm excited about the new "remote recording" feature they claim to release this summer. Supposedly you can log on to your account/receiver via the internet and set to record a show. You know how many times i'm at work and find out that there is somethin' I wanted to record?

These PVRs do change the way you watch tv. I watch when I have time. I try to tell people at work and they just don't get it. It's cool to actually talk to someone that understands.

Later-

[SPG]

Kill your television.

[dongmin]

As much as I would like to see an Apple set-top box in my living room, I think they're right in staying away from it.

First of all, there's not much money in it. Set top boxes aren't like game consoles where companies can sell the boxes below cost and make their money back selling games. From what people are saying, $300 seems to be about the limit of what they're willing to pay for the hardware. There can't be much money left over. Remember, the iPod sells for $400; the margin on those things must be 50% or more. And I don't think set-boxes have much potential for secondary revenue streams.

Secondly, I don't think set top boxes will take over the living room and help expand Apple's presence in the digital universe, which is what some people are arguing. In the end, it's a glorified VCR. It's not gonna revolutionize anything. It's just a nice gadget to have in addition to the VCR, DVD player, and game console.

Apple is right in focussing on trying to make the computer better, make it do more and do it easier and more fun than any other computer out there. The idea is to market the computer as a powerful but user-friendly tool for doing creative and productive things, not some dumb appliance for checking email and recording TV. You don't need a lot of technology know-how or great design sense to record TV. Apple can't survive in that kind of low common denominator market. And there's a lot more money in the PC market, which helps.

[Screamingbeaver]

Originally posted by dongmin
Secondly, I don't think set top boxes will take over the living room and help expand Apple's presence in the digital universe, which is what some people are arguing. In the end, it's a glorified VCR. It's not gonna revolutionize anything. It's just a nice gadget to have in addition to the VCR, DVD player, and game console.

Hey dongmin, I beg to differ. A glorified VCR??!! Not even close! Do you have a PVR? Have you used one? I haven't used my VCR in a year. I don't mean to sound short with you, i'm just sayin' that these are far more than just a "glorified VCR" they DO change the way you watch television. My whole family can watch what they want when they want. Skip commercials with ease....and not to mention crystal clear picture. PVRs are going to make an impact.

Thats my opinion anyway.

'Beaver

[dongmin]

Originally posted by Screamingbeaver


they DO change the way you watch television.... PVRs are going to make an impact.

Thats my opinion anyway.

'Beaver

In the end, you're still watching TV. Granted, the delivery system is different but it's TV all the same. I'll probably be eating my words six months from now when these PVRs are the hottest gadgets around, but I don't see that great a demand for these things. People seem pretty content with the existing TV viewing experience.

So that's my opinion

[3rdpath]

tv is to pvr as radio is to the ipod.

its all about individual control. control of access, control of content and control of the experience.

these technologies may(or may not) be important to you now but they will be the norm by the time the general public catches on.

we're really all participating in some serious backwards consumer to producer R&D right now( and i guess our salary is the experience...)

[iGav]

People may well be content with current TV........ but what happens if we don't evolve??

What would have happened had people stayed content with just the Ford Model T?? Or if we'd stayed content with Propellor driven planes?? Or computers as big as a room??

We can't just stand still.........:p

[gooddog]

simply letting us use the 23" Apple LCD with the digital signal coming out of our satellite TV/ PVR box ?

If Apple doesn't want to make a box, we'll gladly pay our $500 to another corporation...but at least I will not have to pay twice for a 16 X 9 HD monitor !!!

Those suckers are expensive !!!

Doesn't Apple need the extra sales of 23" HD 's ????

I am sure it puts out a picture far superior to the CRT-based Wide TV's out there.

And , if I could hack an ADC port onto my FP iMac 800, ;) how beautiful with FCP !

I would love to have a slim 23" instead of a 300 lb. behemoth CRT in my tiny apartment living room and I'm sure many dorm dwellers etc. would too.

Also, I detect a bit of anti-TV snobbery. But not all of TV turns your brain off --
and there's plenty of brain-killing computing that goes on as well : there is some overlap there, even if it were desireable to have your brain powered up 24/7 .

---gooddog

[D0ct0rteeth]

Apples recent announcements with Panasonic and aquisition of Zayante, point to apple doing something tv related....

Can I hope that there is something along the lines of this integrated into our computers soon... sony already did...

http://www.formac.com/html/shopformac.html?cid=shop_products_studio

I will never buy another TV..

C-

.................

[mcrain]

What will happen when a larger portion of the TV watching public has access to, and uses, PVRs? I'll tell you what will happen, people will start skipping commercials.

What happens then when advertisers realize that people are skipping their commercials? Someone will figure out a way to make it so you can't skip a commercial.

Or worse...

Pop-up ads on your TV screen!

[Screamingbeaver]

I'm not at all against product placement in the shows that I watch. Hey you never know, If I would see some products being used in more real life (scripted) situations, I just might buy'em. Seeing a "TV/Movie star" drinking a can of soda or eating a certain food, just might get people to buy it. And hey you know that you'd see the lovely Macintosh Computer all over the freakin' place. I mean out in the open and not with masking tape over the logo (freakin' VH1).

'Beaver

[Screamingbeaver]

It is kinda funny...We are so used to watching stuff from our Ulitmate TV that, my son, who is Two, will be watchin' Disney or Scooby Doo and when the commercial comes on he'll freak out... thinkin' his show is done or somethin' He now know to go to remote and skip it. It's probably not the most healthy thing, but it is they way we watch TV.

'Beaver

[mcrain]

Originally posted by Screamingbeaver
my son, who is Two

Next time my wife starts talking about children, I'm going to think of your screen name and the fact that you have a two year old kid...

That should keep me rational.

[Screamingbeaver]

Hey mcrain -

What do mean by "That should keep me rational."?

'Beaver

[eirik]

Someone raised a great point comparing game boxes with Moxi/Set-up boxes. At present, there is no business model available for sellers of PVR's, except for maybe something on the order of $10/mo subscription services. That is a severe limiter given the up front cost of the box itself because it might take an awfully long time to start making money, let alone margin.

This is why I feel the better way for Apple and other computer makers to enter this market is via peripherals. Rather than sell a full-blown PVR with CPU, RAM, hard drive, etc., leverage all of that in one's existing PC, supplemented with a 2nd hard drive and probably another CPU.

I'd like to see a peripheral with a Firewire connection to the Mac. The peripheral would terminate the coax cable or satellite connection, and, it would feed it to the Mac in a useful form. A second hard drive, may be a must.

The televisions and speakers throughout the home would have simple boxes that enable them to send/receive data to/from the Mac.

Suffice it to say, there is a wide array of options for connectivity. I don't want to spend much time in this post on it, however. Connectivity could range from simple cabling to wireless approaches that would be more expensive.

Back to these 'simple boxes', they would consist of very cheap electronics that enables the conversion of the cable or satellite or recorded media (from your Mac) to the televisions and speakers. They might also possess encryption capabilities so that DVD's could be remotely played. And finally, these 'simple boxes' would have some kind of IR or RF transceiver (or just a receiver).

Icing on the cake might be some kind of a tablet that contains only enough graphics to speak with the Mac and display control content, maybe even entertainment content. The idea here is a thin client.

Summarizing, if I were Apple, I'd be researching an approach that leverages expensive components from the Mac, adding only the cost of peripherals, connectivity, and the 'simple boxes' to enable our PVR dreams.

Eirik

[gooddog]

MCRAIN,

I know what you mean. In a few years, the stupid logos that Direct puts on the lower right corner of my screen identifying the station has expanded from an intermitent watermark, to a constant glaring distraction, and now they are animating ads for their own programing AS WE WATCH THE FREAKING SHOWS !

I have tried to find a name to complain to re. these abuses ( I would never buy a TV with an ad etched onto the picture tube face ! ) but to no avail.

One example of a great ad is the new one for WHEEL WITH HANDLES exerciser. I actually saved it to show it to my friends --- it's a riot !!!

Imagine an open "freelance" market where manufacturers run ad contests for folks who use FCP, Photoshop, etc. to submit ads for their products. The winners get paid lotsa dough , we get great, fun ads in blocks and sales go up without our blood pressure doing same.

Just a thot.

---gooddog

[D0ct0rteeth]

eirik;

I totally agree. Formac is making very similar boxes; and if you had a PC (insert hysterical laughter here) you could build a setup you describe via a few third parties. (Im not to sure about the tablet.... they have them at the vegas electronic expos; but im not sure that anyone makes them yet.)

The formac boxes have their pros and cons from what I have seen... a little bit of audio sync problems and i beleive that they cant be viewed full screen.

Keep an eye on apple... Im sure before too long they will release something along these lines.... its all part of the hub. and after those two announcments I dont think the wait will be too long.

C-

[New Guy]

Would it really be that difficult for Apple to make a device that bridges the gap between my computer, my television and my stereo?

We have iTunes and iPhoto on the computer but no EASY way to get them to the living room.

My vision of a set-top-box from Apple would be a massive hard disk device (100 GB or so) which easily connects to my TV and Stereo. It would be a storage device for all my MP3s and photos as well as a video recorder. It would use airport to communicate with my computer (ie downloading playlists from iTunes as well as a "Play List" from iPhoto) but would use firewire for transferring the bulk of the content from my computer to the hardrive. I would be able to control the PVR portion from a remote control, my computer, or the internet via iTools. And I should be able to easily add additional storage as needed.

Not too much to ask now is it?

[cryptochrome]

Eirik's idea is very similar to my own. There's no end of possibilities to what you can do in the home entertainment arena. Just as PVRs are revolutionizing how some people watch TV these days, a mac-connected digital lifestyle device could revolutionize it even further. The Broadband Internet + Home Network + Smart PVR/Computer + Digital Cable/Satellite combo could completely change the way people amuse themselves. The only difficult part is finding a good system for content producers to be compensated (via various methods of advertising and/or various payment methods) and convincing them to change their intractable ways.

The notion of a television channel or radio station could become completely obsolete, while independently-created playlists would flourish and fan interaction would rise. Syndication options and limitations would dramatically improve, while "Networks" would have new flexibility for scaling their offerings up and down. TV providers could deliver shows in a far more efficient manner, allowing them to easily deliver more real-time content like sports. Shows could be delivered as Pay-per-view, subscription, and/or advertising-supported depending on viewer choice, content could be dynamic and user-specific, and restricting content for children would become trivial. Public Access could explode.

That's just a sampling of what's possible. The thing to remember now is: You may go to your computer to turn your brain on, and your TV to turn your brain off, but there's no reason it has to stay that way. Greater flexibility for producers, providers, and consumers in entertainment can only be a good thing, and all it takes is a couple devices and a little imagination to make it so.

[Screamingbeaver]

This whole philosophy of "you go to your computer to turn your brain on, and your TV to turn your brain off" I don't believe to be entirely true.

Computer:
How many here have found themselves in a mindless web surfin' session where you're totally zoned out to the world, to awaken only to find you've wasted precious time that could have been spent doing other things. I consider that turning my mind off... to a point. Don't get me wrong, I use the 'net everyday to conduct business and get valuable information. Its one of my most powerful tools.

TV:
I do enjoy my mindless TV sitcoms and Comedy/Action Motion Pictures, but TV can spark your brain to think as well. There is a great deal of learning and educational television for kids, and I watch TechTV. I usually watch The Screen Savers everyday....To learn, as well as be entertained.

My two cents for what its worth.
'Beaver

[Timothy]

Apple is not going to get into this market anytime soon.

Why would they? In what way would an Apple-branded PVR offer any advantages over the other already existing systems? It's not as if you interact with an operating system to any significant degree with a PVR, and for the most part, that aspect of the PVR is dictated by the service company; TIVO or Ultimate TV for the most part. There is just no compelling reason to buy one over the other, since basically, they provide similar functionality. So, there is really no aspect of the experience that is substantially enhanced by an Apple brand.

I am in the market for a PVR. I've tested my friends units, and for the most part, the basic offerings are sufficient for my needs. Sure, it would be great if I could combine a PVR with a DVD burner, so that I can save my favorite programs; but the reality is that there is a ton of legalities that need to be worked out before this will become a reality.

MS is running down the road of the "smart house" with increased fervor. But I ask you, in what way do I need to manage my refrigerator through a network or a computer? Does this really provide me with some distinct benefit? I've owned my current refrigerator for 3 years, and have never adjusted the setting once. I don't see this great Jetson's-like-future that others talk about with regards to the digital lifestyle.

Face it, beyond the Desktop and Laptop, the next foray of computing is the truly mobile device market. Apple has yet to mine the depths of what is possible in this field. There's no way they will skip over this to attempt to enter the Television domain.

All things in time...No Apple branded PVR (or similar devices) for at least 5 years.

[Screamingbeaver]

Hey people, what is this?

I found this at slashdot.com
"There's something very interesting on Apple's Japanese site. CaptyTV is part of Apple's 'Digital Hub', and it's a USB analog-to-digital video converter. A rough translatation from the site says talks about TiVo-like functionality, looking up program listings on the internet and recording at a certain time. It also talks about dumping your archived videos to DVD with the iMac's & PowerMac's SuperDrive. Sounds very cool, I hope it makes it over to this side of the world." And is that an external SuperDrive there on the sidebar? "

http://www.apple.co.jp/digitalhub/captytv/index.html

Too wierd...?