Should firearms be legal?

[idkew]

Hey all, I just thought I would start a little discussion here.

Should owning any gun in the states be legal? Pistols? Assault Rifles? Hunting Rifles?

What do you think?



My thoughts-----

I think that most guns should be 100% legal to all law abiding citizens of majority.
I should be able to own a shot gun to hunt deer. I should be able to own a high powered rifle to hunt also.
I also should be able to own a hand gun.
I don't commit felonies. I follow laws (well, except the speed limit), and there is no reason I should not be allowed to own a gun.

On the other hand, I believe felons should not be allowed to own a firearm. I do not think fully automatic guns should be legal. There is no reason for those guns. Not for hunting, not for protection. A fully automatic gun can only cause problems.


Since moving into my apartment in Lincoln Park (a nice neighborhood in Chicago) I have been robbed three times, twice my car, once my bike off my porch. I want a pistol, a Glock .40 (http://glock.com/g27.htm). I want to be able to protect me and my own if some worthless druggie decides they want something or want to hurt me or anyone else in my place.

BUT, the City of Chicago amazingly outlaws all pistols. No matter if you are a perfectly law abiding citizen. The only effect that has is to leave the good guys without guns and the bad guys, who don't care about laws, all firepower they can find.

[mactastic]

Oh boy, this ought to be a fun thread.

My advice would be to move to one of the right-to-carry states. When I lived in Arizona it was not uncommon to see people wearing a holster around. The government buildings had windows for checking your weapons. Several other states will also allow you to carry a firearm as long as it is in plain view.

[edesignuk]

The fact that anyone in the states seems to be able to own a gun is not a good thing, but I don't see how it could ever change now.
I for one hope the UK doesn't end up following in the footsteps of America.

[eyelikeart]

Funny thing this thread pops up...there's been a lot of action taking place in this city lately. I don't know what the deal is...but it's scary stuff.

Last night watching the news, a story about guys running around with AK-47's. Then another story about seized illegal firearms. A few weeks ago, there was an incident with machine guns at a carwash. Last week, a story unfolds about a local city's police force selling illegal firearms...

I really wish there was more done to "control" the situation, and prevent things like these from happening. It's a shame because it won't happen...things are just too far gone to gain control now.

I'm for putting HEAVY restrictions on firearms...that's just me.

[adamfilip]

I think Guns and Firearms should be Illegal to everyone except Police, Security and Military people.

if you want to hunt.. Get a Bow.
if you want to protect yourself get one of those Electro shock units.

If all guns were Illegal there wouldnt be as many illegal guns in criminal hands.. and less crime

[Moxiemike]

Hey all, I just thought I would start a little discussion here.

Should owning any gun in the states be legal? Pistols? Assault Rifles? Hunting Rifles?

What do you think?


Isn't owning a gun legal? You can buy hunting rifles and and use them to hunt.

There's no real need to carry unless you're a detective or a cop.

My thoughts-----

I think that most guns should be 100% legal to all law abiding citizens of majority.
I should be able to own a shot gun to hunt deer. I should be able to own a high powered rifle to hunt also.
I also should be able to own a hand gun.
I don't commit felonies. I follow laws (well, except the speed limit), and there is no reason I should not be allowed to own a gun.

On the other hand, I believe felons should not be allowed to own a firearm. I do not think fully automatic guns should be legal. There is no reason for those guns. Not for hunting, not for protection. A fully automatic gun can only cause problems.



Sure, you're a law abiding citizen. until you get your gun and use it on someone.

If you have it around, the more likely you are to use it. Period.

Also, being a "scared" citizen with a gun... you're more likely to lose control of it to a thief who breaks in and isn't armed. So you've just armed him! Good move! Believe me, it happens often, more often than you'd think, and to some of the best shooters around. :)

Since moving into my apartment in Lincoln Park (a nice neighborhood in Chicago) I have been robbed three times, twice my car, once my bike off my porch. I want a pistol, a Glock .40. I want to be able to protect me and my own if some worthless druggie decides they want something or want to hurt me or anyone else in my place.

BUT, the City of Chicago amazingly outlaws all pistols. No matter if you are a perfectly law abiding citizen. The only effect that has is to leave the good guys without guns and the bad guys, who don't care about laws, all firepower they can find.

Have you tried a security system? Have you tried neighborhood watch? Do you have a garage? Do you realize that leaving your bike on your porch is just ASKING a thief to steal it? God, even in the richer areas here, I know friends who have had their bikes stolen. Hardly reason to buy a gun, let alone a glock.

If you live in such a nice neighborhood, i'm sure there's some neighborhood watch stuff happening. Have you tried to talk to your neighbors about it? Have you told them to keep an eye out? Do you leave valuables out on your car seat or in an open area of the car, in easy view? (chances are you do if theifs have broken in twice)

I mean, you haven't really shown me any reason why you need a gun--only that you've seemingly made yourself an easy target for thieves (leaving a bike on a porch? I STILL can't get over that. Put the darn thing in your basement.

Just make sure you're NOT making yourself a target before using someone else for target practice.

Have you asked your neighbors what they would think should you be allowed to have a pistol in your posession? Would they like the idea of pro-active violence coming into their neighborhood? Do you have kids who might accidently get ahold of this weapon? (if you leave you bike on your porch, i'm guessing you might be careless enough to leave the gun in the open? all theory here, but still)

I just think that there are MORE CONSTRUCTIVE ways to allieviate this problem. Start with a GOOD security system. They cost just about as much as a gun.

You said you're new to the neighborhood?? Then introduce yourselves to the neighbors. Talk to them. make some friends. It might help. A strong sense of community can do more to alleviate crime than anything else. How about a stun gun? Something "non-destructive"

Also, don't assume that the criminals are all "worthless druggies."

I know lots of people in high paying corporate jobs who are addicted to drugs.

That said, some criminals actually steal for thrill, some because they don't have a job, some are just misguided kids (who would do better with some guidance counseling as opposed to a glock bullet lodged in their spine)

I think that if it were a "worthless druggie" he'd probably break into your house and look for cash. That's their usual M.O., those darn addicts. They want MORE. and they can't get enough for their fix hawking a mountain bike at the pawn shop. They usually aim for higher ticket items. ;)

I don't mean to flame you here, but you've left too many holes and made too many assumptions in this post.

i think guns should be used for huntiing and that's about it. For protection? Nah.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Moxiemike
i think guns should be used for huntiing and that's about it. For protection? Nah.

and i thought you were LIBERAL!??!

no guns at all

hunting with guns is like going to a whorehouse to pick up some girls.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
hunting with guns is like going to a whorehouse to pick up some girls.

That's awesome! Can I use that? Talk about a great quote.:D

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
and i thought you were LIBERAL!??!

no guns at all

hunting with guns is like going to a whorehouse to pick up some girls.

Yea. But the law is written. I'd rather worry more about the glut of guns on the street than about repealing them for hunting.

That said, i don't really agree with hunting at all. And if you must i'd prefer a bow... but... i don't mind a couple of hunters taking one another out. ;)

Hehe.

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by mactastic
That's awesome! Can I use that? Talk about a great quote.:D

J.Lo is a quotable one, he is. ;)

[wdlove]

Originally posted by adamfilip
I think Guns and Firearms should be Illegal to everyone except Police, Security and Military people.

if you want to hunt.. Get a Bow.
if you want to protect yourself get one of those Electro shock units.

If all guns were Illegal there wouldnt be as many illegal guns in criminal hands.. and less crime

The problem is that criminals will always be able to get guns. In the very restrictive city of Boston, murder is still rampant.

I believe in our Constitution, the Second Amendment guarantees citizens the right to have guns. The founders did not put restrictions, even after just having fought the Revolutionary War.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by mactastic
That's awesome! Can I use that? Talk about a great quote.:D

feel free.

what's mine is...


i still enjoy my socialism quote. hah

[idkew]

Bold was Originally posted by Moxiemike

Being a "scared" citizen with a gun... you're more likely to lose control of it to a thief who breaks in and isn't armed. So you've just armed him! Good move! Believe me, it happens often, more often than you'd think, and to some of the best shooters around. :)

I don't see myself as some average scared citizen. I used to live in Iowa, and shoot guns all the time. I know how to respect a gun and use it safely. I also know that if I ever were to show my gun to an intruder, it would only be if the next action was to pull the trigger. I realize people do get their weapon turned on them, and I would do all I could to prevent that. THe intruder would never know I had a gun until it was too late for them.

And also- I am not scared. I am prudent. The next logical step, since my POS 5 year old cd player was stolen and my bike gone, is that the perp will come in my place. I do, after all, have a nice laptop... I am not out to kill, I am out to protect. You don't consider yourself scared for purchasing insurance, well, my gun would be my supplimental insurance.



Have you tried a security system?
I rent, not putting any money in this place. Garages cost money, got $100 more a month for me. Remeber, I am jobless.


Have you tried neighborhood watch? Do you have a garage? Do you realize that leaving your bike on your porch is just ASKING a thief to steal it? God, even in the richer areas here, I know friends who have had their bikes stolen. Hardly reason to buy a gun, let alone a glock.


My bike was locked with two locks, and out of sight of anyone BUT my few neighbors. No one from the alley or street could reach it nor see it. Also- my back yard has no exit, a garage is preventing that, with no gate or passageway wide enough for a bike. I actually suspect my neighbors. No proof though.

Do you leave valuables out on your car seat or in an open area of the car, in easy view?

I used to have nice stereo system, which was 6-8 years old, put in while in while I was in high school in iowa. It was very invisible, looked factory except for the deck. The perp must have hear it somewhere, and followed me home. I NEVER played it loud near my residence. First time they took the amps and subs, second time the CD player. They left any cds in the car. I have no insurance. Out $5000 total now.


I mean, you haven't really shown me any reason why you need a gun--only that you've seemingly made yourself an easy target for thieves (leaving a bike on a porch? I STILL can't get over that. Put the darn thing in your basement.

Find somewhere to put it in my tiny ass apartment. I have no basement to use.


Have you asked your neighbors what they would think should you be allowed to have a pistol in your posession? Would they like the idea of pro-active violence coming into their neighborhood? Do you have kids who might accidently get ahold of this weapon? (if you leave you bike on your porch, i'm guessing you might be careless enough to leave the gun in the open? all theory here, but still)


I frankly care less what they think. There are no kids in the neighborhood I have seem. Mostly young singles and couples, and if there is a kids, it is 1 year old.

I would not be careless about a gun. I know you must respect a gun or it will bite you. The gun would always be locked up, with the lock bolted in several places to a floor or wall, and prevented from fireing. I am no careless fool. You seem to assume that though.


I don't mean to flame you here, but you've left too many holes and made too many assumptions in this post.

i think guns should be used for hunting and that's about it. For protection? Nah.

A few days ago, a man was shot and killed a few miles from my house. His only mistake was that he left his door unlocked. A week or so ago, a girl was brutally raped and beaten three blocks from my house because she was out alone late at night. I do not think I am being to rash. I do not think a stun gun would protect me from someone set of murdering me for fun.

[MacRumorSkeptic]

Our U.S. Constitution (The Supreme Law of the Land) says we have the RIGHT to keep & bear arms.

Amendment II:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR ARMS, shall NOT be infringed.

Any city or state with restrictive gun laws is violating our constitutional rights. All you ANTI-GUN folks are gonna have to ammend the constitution to get your way or continue to allow cities and states to simply ignore the constitution, showing no respect for our laws.

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by idkew
Bold was Originally posted by Moxiemike

Being a "scared" citizen with a gun... you're more likely to lose control of it to a thief who breaks in and isn't armed. So you've just armed him! Good move! Believe me, it happens often, more often than you'd think, and to some of the best shooters around. :)

I don't see myself as some average scared citizen. I used to live in Iowa, and shoot guns all the time. I know how to respect a gun and use it safely. I also know that if I ever were to show my gun to an intruder, it would only be if the next action was to pull the trigger. I realize people do get their weapon turned on them, and I would do all I could to prevent that. THe intruder would never know I had a gun until it was too late for them.

And also- I am not scared. I am prudent. The next logical step, since my POS 5 year old cd player was stolen and my bike gone, is that the perp will come in my place. I do, after all, have a nice laptop... I am not out to kill, I am out to protect. You don't consider yourself scared for purchasing insurance, well, my gun would be my supplimental insurance.



Have you tried a security system?
I rent, not putting any money in this place. Garages cost money, got $100 more a month for me. Remeber, I am jobless.


Have you tried neighborhood watch? Do you have a garage? Do you realize that leaving your bike on your porch is just ASKING a thief to steal it? God, even in the richer areas here, I know friends who have had their bikes stolen. Hardly reason to buy a gun, let alone a glock.


My bike was locked with two locks, and out of sight of anyone BUT my few neighbors. No one from the alley or street could reach it nor see it. Also- my back yard has no exit, a garage is preventing that, with no gate or passageway wide enough for a bike. I actually suspect my neighbors. No proof though.

Do you leave valuables out on your car seat or in an open area of the car, in easy view?

I used to have nice stereo system, which was 6-8 years old, put in while in while I was in high school in iowa. It was very invisible, looked factory except for the deck. The perp must have hear it somewhere, and followed me home. I NEVER played it loud near my residence. First time they took the amps and subs, second time the CD player. They left any cds in the car. I have no insurance. Out $5000 total now.


I mean, you haven't really shown me any reason why you need a gun--only that you've seemingly made yourself an easy target for thieves (leaving a bike on a porch? I STILL can't get over that. Put the darn thing in your basement.

Find somewhere to put it in my tiny ass apartment. I have no basement to use.


Have you asked your neighbors what they would think should you be allowed to have a pistol in your posession? Would they like the idea of pro-active violence coming into their neighborhood? Do you have kids who might accidently get ahold of this weapon? (if you leave you bike on your porch, i'm guessing you might be careless enough to leave the gun in the open? all theory here, but still)


I frankly care less what they think. There are no kids in the neighborhood I have seem. Mostly young singles and couples, and if there is a kids, it is 1 year old.

I would not be careless about a gun. I know you must respect a gun or it will bite you. The gun would always be locked up, with the lock bolted in several places to a floor or wall, and prevented from fireing. I am no careless fool. You seem to assume that though.


I don't mean to flame you here, but you've left too many holes and made too many assumptions in this post.

i think guns should be used for hunting and that's about it. For protection? Nah.

A few days ago, a man was shot and killed a few miles from my house. His only mistake was that he left his door unlocked. A week or so ago, a girl was brutally raped and beaten three blocks from my house because she was out alone late at night. I do not think I am being to rash. I do not think a stun gun would protect me from someone set of murdering me for fun.




the comment about "if I ever were to show my gun to an intruder, it would only be if the next action was to pull the trigger." is really the reason why i'm glad there are laws permitting people like you from having a handgun.

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by MacRumorSkeptic
Our U.S. Constitution (The Supreme Law of the Land) says we have the RIGHT to keep & bear arms.

Amendment II:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR ARMS, shall NOT be infringed.

Any city or state with restrictive gun laws is violating our constitutional rights. All you ANTI-GUN folks are gonna have to ammend the constitution to get your way or continue to allow cities and states to simply ignore the constitution, showing no respect for our laws.

likewise, thomas jefferson expected ideas and laws to change with the times.

and sorry, but i don't believe that our country's founders were infallible. god? yes. some honkies from england? nope.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by MacRumorSkeptic
Our U.S. Constitution (The Supreme Law of the Land) says we have the RIGHT to keep & bear arms.

We are not talking about if you do have the right, we are talking about if you should have the right :rolleyes:

[idkew]

Originally posted by Moxiemike
the comment about "if I ever were to show my gun to an intruder, it would only be if the next action was to pull the trigger." is really the reason why i'm glad there are laws permitting people like you from having a handgun.

i never said i wanted to kill people. in fact, i would hate it if I had to kill someone, but in a situation where it is him or me. i would not hesitate in choosing my life.

I hope you and i will never meet that situation.

also- nice sexist quote. do you see al women with blonde hair as dumb?

edit- stepped right into my trap. the point was that i know you are not sexest. i was just demonstrating how you took one idea, and twisted it into something completely different.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
some honkies from england? nope.
HEY! :o :D Honkies!?! j/k :)

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by idkew
you're an idiot. plain and simple. ignorant and idoitic.

Uh oh...

[adamfilip]

I believe in our Constitution, the Second Amendment guarantees citizens the right to have guns. The founders did not put restrictions, even after just having fought the Revolutionary War. [/B]

Just because its in your beloved consitution doesnt make it right

it was written a long time ago and is no longer a valid document in many respects

and criminals will always get guns.. but that doesnt mean we shouldnt make it as difficult as posisble to get one.

remove all guns and there will be far fewer new criminals to use them!

[mymemory]

idkew, don't you think that people that have fire arms does it because they were legal at the time the got it? If some one rober you and any of you have fire arm you are in equal conditions, if you shoot some one you are in big problems even when is in self defence.

Fire arms shouldn't not be allowed under any cir****ances, not even to kill a deer, take a crosrow and do it that way.

There should no be any kind of fire weapons for civilians, even legally, once they are stolen or are used again some one else you become illegal.

I rather see the criminals trying to steel your car punching you in your nose when you are able to do the same thing in equal conditions.

I really would like to see some people without their firearms to see how brave they are.

No crime, no bank roberies, no murders as we have now. Of course politicians will never do that, politicians never loose.

All what you say idkew can be done without weapons, unfortunatelly we are in an scalade, they have guns so we should have them too, but that is going to be worst becase weapons deterirate but there are more people and more guns are sold every day for new users.

[idkew]

Originally posted by adamfilip
]remove all guns and there will be far fewer new criminals to use them!

i think australia did this. anyone know what happend just after al the good guys turned in their guns?

is their crime rate lower NOW?

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by MacRumorSkeptic
Our U.S. Constitution (The Supreme Law of the Land) says we have the RIGHT to keep & bear arms.

Amendment II:
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the PEOPLE to KEEP and BEAR ARMS, shall NOT be infringed.

No one knows for sure if that means that you have to have to be in a militia to have a gun, of if it means that you can have a gun in case a militia has to be formed.

Better Constitutional scholars than ourselves have debated the point, and anyone who claims to definitively know the answer is either lying or misinformed.

[idkew]

Originally posted by mymemory
idkew, don't you think that people that have fire arms does it because they were legal at the time the got it? If some one rober you and any of you have fire arm you are in equal conditions, if you shoot some one you are in big problems even when is in self defence.

that is something i thought about before this thread. i wonder about that question. are more crimes commited by first time gun offenders? OR are more crimes commited by habitual offenders who do not have the right to own a gun anymore?

my guess is the latter. anyone have a fact about this?

[Moxiemike]

Originally posted by idkew
you're an idiot. plain and simple. ignorant and idoitic.

i never said i wanted to kill people. in fact, i would hate it if I had to kill someone, but in a situation where it is him or me. i would not hesitate in choosing my life.

I hope you and i will never meet that situation.

also- nice sexist quote. do you see al women with blonde hair as dumb?

Thanks. BUt the fact of the matter is... people who have jumpy attitudes like this are probably more likely to keep squeezing. Just make sure you retain a good lawyer my friend.

And no, I don't think all blondes are dumb. My quote said "some dumb blonde" and could have just as easily been "some dumb brunette"

Notice that it doesn't say anything that could be construed as "all blondes are dumb"

now the pro-gun people... i might have a case for 'all inclusiveness'

hehe