Fed up with Apple! [Archive] - MacRumors Forums

bwawn

Aug 28, 2003, 05:03 PM

I will admit, if they didn't send an email to your .Mac account warning you that your account was expiring, that's pretty bad. There are plenty of people who use .Mac and never visit http://www.mac.com.

But there is a ticker on http://www.mac.com, when you're logged in, that informs you how many days you have left until your account expires. That's MORE than Apple needs to provide to you. It's really essentially your responsibility, and yours only, to know when your email account is going to go kaput. Blaming Apple because your year-long subscription was up and you didn't realize it was here already seems more like a vent of frustration for your own actions.

I'm sorry if this post seems negative. It's not meant to be that way; I'm sure you're a completely responsible person.

By the way, why has your .Mac account expired already? http://www.mac.com tells me that I have 42 days left on my account, and I paid the $50 to keep my account up last year, and I would assume all that did the same would also have 42 days left.

Backtothemac

Aug 28, 2003, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by agreenster
Sorry to say it, but the Apple rep was right.

If you havent been paying your bills, then you dont get the service. You dont have a right to complain when your electricity turns off because you didnt pay your AEP bill, do you? How is this any different?

Just pay your bills on time and this wont happen. You cant expect free service, can you?

And if it was a warning you wanted, remember that a warning is a courtesy, not a necessity.

Sorry, but no, you are wrong. I do pay my bills, and paid for .Mac, AFTER they said that iTools was free. Had Apple sent a warning, or a reminder you should say, that it would have allowed me to make a difference.

THEY have an obligation to me as a customer to be thoughtful enough to call. They should have, and they are wrong for their attitude. Every company out there will send a bill before payment is due.

Backtothemac

Aug 28, 2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by bwawn
I will admit, if they didn't send an email to your .Mac account warning you that your account was expiring, that's pretty bad. There are plenty of people who use .Mac and never visit http://www.mac.com.

But there is a ticker on http://www.mac.com, when you're logged in, that informs you how many days you have left until your account expires. That's MORE than Apple needs to provide to you. It's really essentially your responsibility, and yours only, to know when your email account is going to go kaput. Blaming Apple because your year-long subscription was up and you didn't realize it was here already seems more like a vent of frustration for your own actions.

I'm sorry if this post seems negative. It's not meant to be that way; I'm sure you're a completely responsible person.

By the way, why has your .Mac account expired already? http://www.mac.com tells me that I have 42 days left on my account, and I paid the $50 to keep my account up last year, and I would assume all that did the same would also have 42 days left.

I have no idea. It doesn't seem possible really, but evidently it is. As for going to .Mac on Apple's site, I never go there. I use the mail over Outlook, or Entoruage, so I don't have a need to check it remotely. They really have pissed me off over this and my Cinema Display.

simX

Aug 28, 2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
[...] AFTER they said that iTools was free. [...]

I agree that it was bad form on Apple's part to not send you any notification. But complaining about the iTools/.mac issue is SO LAME and so old. Get over that -- it costs money to provide the e-mail services that they provided for free for 2 years.

agreenster

Aug 28, 2003, 05:27 PM

Dont really know what to say.

Can't you just pay the 99 bucks and get everything back? Would that solve the problem, or can you no longer use any of the email addresses anymore?

If its just the matter of 99 bucks, then pay it. If you just dont feel like paying it (or cant afford it) then that is your problem, not Apple's.

rainman::|:|

Aug 28, 2003, 05:57 PM

i think he would lose any info in his idisk or mailboxes... could be wrong tho...

i agree it sucks, for the most part they've always seemed good about warning people, but they're definitely not known for consistency, so who knows...

this is a service that warrants actual snail mail warning-- like when a magazine runs out, keeping in mind that a subscription costs like $25, they send you half a dozen letters... and for a $99 service, they can't send one?

hope it didn't screw you too bad... i know how big of a pain it can be to suddenly lose an essential, old email address... you can't remember a tenth of the people that know you there...

pnw

iJon

Aug 28, 2003, 05:57 PM

stop whining, they keep your info and when you get the money you can renew it and maybe your card is different, but i have a visa debit card from my bank and it acts just like a credit card. maybe you should visit the .mac page every now and then its says in big letters on mine "7 days left." but i have an idea for you, when you get your new copy open ical and mark it, and have it display and warn you every way it can in 1 year.

iJon

MrMacMan

Aug 28, 2003, 05:58 PM

When I got this I got iTools, iTools kicked.

Then when they said iTools becomes .Mac they said I had so and so days before my stuff became trash because my dad wasn't going to renew.

It was sad, but oh well.

They did send notification to my 2 e-Mail addresses.

:confused:

simX

Aug 28, 2003, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by iJon
stop whining, they keep your info and when you get the money you can renew it and maybe your card is different, but i have a visa debit card from my bank and it acts just like a credit card. maybe you should visit the .mac page every now and then its says in big letters on mine "7 days left." but i have an idea for you, when you get your new copy open ical and mark it, and have it display and warn you every way it can in 1 year.

iJon

?! Can you take a screenshot of this? I've always had to go into my account section before it tells me the day that my account expires. It certainly doesn't say "7 days left" in big letters on the .mac page for me.

iJon

Aug 28, 2003, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by simX
?! Can you take a screenshot of this? I've always had to go into my account section before it tells me the day that my account expires. It certainly doesn't say "7 days left" in big letters on the .mac page for me.
here you go, i had to go to my old .mac account for this, i have since renewed this and made a new name, so i guess i have 2 .mac accounts left for the next 7 days.

iJon

simX

Aug 28, 2003, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by iJon
here you go, i had to go to my old .mac account for this, i have since renewed this and made a new name, so i guess i have 2 .mac accounts left for the next 7 days.

iJon

Hmm, maybe it only shows up when you have a certain number of days left on your .mac account -- and that won't happen to my account for a while.

Eniregnat

Aug 28, 2003, 07:29 PM

I have to say that I loved being Eniregnat@mac.com. I refused to pay for a service that was supposed to be free though. They were generous in allowing my iTools account to stay active beyond the first deadline.

patrick0brien

Aug 29, 2003, 10:14 AM

Originally posted by agreenster
Sorry to say it, but the Apple rep was right.

If you havent been paying your bills, then you dont get the service. You dont have a right to complain when your electricity turns off because you didnt pay your AEP bill, do you? How is this any different?

Just pay your bills on time and this wont happen. You cant expect free service, can you?

And if it was a warning you wanted, remember that a warning is a courtesy, not a necessity.

-agreenster

I agree on the warning courtest thing, howver it is become a GAAP thing and most periodic customers are used to receiving a bill. Not to sat that this is Apple's fault by any stretch, but they are the kings of useability - you think the'd make getting paid easier on themselves.

-Backtothemac

They do hold on to your data for "no less than 30 days" in case you wish to renew.

Backtothemac

Aug 29, 2003, 10:36 AM

Originally posted by patrick0brien

Backtothemac

They do hold on to your data for "no less than 30 days" in case you wish to renew.

Well, I would have, but an Apple rep this morning flat out called me a liar, and hung up on me. So, that's it. I need arn to change my name now.

MacsRgr8

Aug 29, 2003, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, I would have, but an Apple rep this morning flat out called me a liar, and hung up on me. So, that's it. I need arn to change my name now.

That is flat out outrageous! What happened here??? This guy was seriously an Apple REP???? REP-ulsive, is more like it :rolleyes:

But hey, don't let this one guy let you change your name from Backtothemac to something sinister like: BackagaintotheworstcasescenarioPC....

britboy

Aug 29, 2003, 10:57 AM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, I would have, but an Apple rep this morning flat out called me a liar, and hung up on me. So, that's it. I need arn to change my name now.

That's just wrong. No company should have that kind of person representing them to the public. What happened to 'the customer is always right'? The least they could have done is to appologize for any inconvenience they might have caused by closing down your account. Whether they warned you about it or not, there's no need to hang up on a potential customer. Perhaps you just ran into someone having a bad day?

LethalWolfe

Aug 29, 2003, 11:46 AM

Damn, that blows B2TM. Just curious, were you this pissed off when you called Apple? Did the rep flat out call you a liar or did he/she imply that your perception of the events that happend wasn't exactly what happend? I'm not trying to defend the rep or anyting if he/she truly was rude, but I've been in customer service for 8 years so I'm very familiar w/both sides of the fence. Both sparkleytone and iJon said they recieved notice and maybe you did too but it got over looked. A similair thing happend w/my hosting company. I unknowingly deleted the e-mail saying that my domain name was going to expire. So one day I went to my site and it wasn't there anymore. After a few days I was like WTF and e-mailed the company. When I got the reply back saying they sent a notice and I failed to renew I was like "d'oh" and sheepishly renewed my domain name. Enough about me...

Hope you didn't lose anything important B2TM when yer .Mac closed.

Lethal

Taft

Aug 29, 2003, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, I would have, but an Apple rep this morning flat out called me a liar, and hung up on me. So, that's it. I need arn to change my name now.

HORRIBLE!!!!

I HATE, HATE, HATE bad customer service reps. Did you happen to get his employee ID number?? I always ask reps their employee ID number before talking to them. Then, if they turn out to be a complete a**hole, I call back and ask for a supervisor.

The problem is that there are a *lot* of jerks out there. They work everywhere: Restaurants, service centers, the gas station...you can't avoid them. The best thing you can do is to put up with them as best as possible, then ask to speak with a manager.

Don't give up on Apple over this. He's just a bad apple in a good organization.

Taft

simX

Aug 29, 2003, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by Taft
Don't give up on Apple over this. He's just a bad apple in a good organization.

Taft

I hope there was no pun intended when you made that statement. :rolleyes:

jxyama

Aug 29, 2003, 01:01 PM

sorry man. yeah, notification is a courtesy, but at the same time, i think it's fairly reasonably to expect several renewal notices these days... if you ever subscribe to a magazine, you will get no less than 3 notices of renewal...

and the service rep... that's just flat out wrong, if what you said are correct. i don't blame you at all, no one should be subjected to that kind of treatment as a paying (or formally paying :D) customer...

agreenster

Aug 29, 2003, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, I would have, but an Apple rep this morning flat out called me a liar, and hung up on me. So, that's it. I need arn to change my name now.

A Couple Options here:

A) The Apple rep may have simply been an ass.
B) The Apple rep may have been having a bad day
C) The Apple rep may have been responding to your harsh tone
D) The Apple rep may have really not believed you since people have a habit of not believing excuses from people who have overdue bills. (I got chewed out by a Librarian once for a similar reason)

Regardless of the reason, thats really no excuse to stop using Apple computers, is it? Do you honestly think every Dell, Gateway, or IBM rep is nice and cheery to people complaining to them about overdue bills?

Get serious. This is borderlining on childish.

Just pay the stupid 99 bucks and be done with it!

agreenster

Aug 29, 2003, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by jxyama
no one should be subjected to that kind of treatment as a paying (or formally paying :D) customer...

I think you unknowingly made a good point. Apple really doesnt have to treat him as a paying customer because he isnt one. He didn't (and appears to not want to) pay the 99 bucks in time.

That would be like leaving a restaurant without paying and complaining about the service.

MacsRgr8

Aug 29, 2003, 01:32 PM

iJon

Aug 29, 2003, 01:34 PM

well if you have an apple rep than you are probably affiliated with apple in some way. which also means you are probably a member of Learn and Earn. and if thats so go do the .Mac course and get your free year. but you are throwing a huge hissy fit over this. should have payed more attention.

iJon

Taft

Aug 29, 2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by agreenster
I think you unknowingly made a good point. Apple really doesnt have to treat him as a paying customer because he isnt one. He didn't (and appears to not want to) pay the 99 bucks in time.

That would be like leaving a restaurant without paying and complaining about the service.

Its actually more like ComEd providing you electrical service, then they don't send you a bill, then they cancel your service because you didn't pay for it.

Its really a matter of caring for your customers. Sure, LEGALLY Apple can tell BTTM to go to hell, cut off his service and never speak to him again. But it's in Apple's (and most companies') best interest to give their customers some slack, especially when a customer who has never been late on a payment before says they didn't receive a bill.

Think about the electric company or a cellular service provider. If you've been a good customer and always payed your bills, they won't cut your service if you miss a payment. Realistically, with the cruddy mail service the USPS provides, many bills probably get legitimately lost in the mail. The companies know this and don't treat "first time offenders" like criminals in the interest of keeping business around.

Calling the customer a liar or harrassing him for not paying a bill is REALLY bad business. Most companies will only resort to this type of tactic after a person is really behind in their payments, or they are forced to turn the account over to a collection service.

There is no justifying this service rep's behavior. It was just wrong.

Taft

MacsRgr8

Aug 29, 2003, 02:08 PM

Yep, I agree.

Are you still reading, BacktotheMac?

Backtothemac

Aug 29, 2003, 02:15 PM

Yea, I am still reading. When I called the rep, asked him to explain to me why I had not gotten an email notifying me of the experation. He said I would have. I said, no sir, I did not. I get paid once per month, and now have to wait 3 weeks to get my email, which is my business mail. He said that there was nothing that could be done, and that it was my fault. I asked how it was my fault. He responded that it was my responsiblity to know the expiration date of the account.

I said sir, I understand that, but does apple not have the obligation to let me know since this is a paid service, and I am sure that they want to have as many customers as possible. He said that they do send the emails, and I knew I had gotten it. I responded, are you calling me a liar? He said if that is what you would like to call it. I said, please give me your supervisor, he hung up.

So, no this is a pattern that is developing with Apple that I have seen lately. I worked for Apple for 4 years, and was a Sales manager for a retailer for another 2 years. I have watched their customer service go to ****. My 22" Cinema had over 300 dead pixels, and they tried to claim that it was sparkel. It took sending the thing to them 3 times before they replaced it. So, I was without my monitor for over a month. It is stupid.

So, yea, my attitude right now is screw them. Awesome product, but their customer service is nightmarish right now. It wasn't always this way, but lately it is.

agreenster

Aug 29, 2003, 02:16 PM

Yep. I agree that the Apple rep could have been just being an ass. (see my post a couple posts up)

He should still just pay the 99 and problem solved.

Backtothemac

Aug 29, 2003, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by agreenster
Yep. I agree that the Apple rep could have been just being an ass. (see my post a couple posts up)

He should still just pay the 99 and problem solved.

It is a matter of being between checks and locked out of an email account that I have had for nearly three years. Now, all of my business email is being bounced. Not good.

MacsRgr8

Aug 29, 2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac

I said sir, I understand that, but does apple not have the obligation to let me know since this is a paid service, and I am sure that they want to have as many customers as possible. He said that they do send the emails, and I knew I had gotten it. I responded, are you calling me a liar? He said if that is what you would like to call it. I said, please give me your supervisor, he hung up.

This is the important bit.
Maybe he really "knew' you had gotten, it... but he should also 'know" that it is very possible something went wrong, like you accidentaly trashed it, or your Mac crashed.. I don't know, many possibilities.
The bottom line is: They WANT you to pay, you WANT to keep using their services.... They should be confident they have have done everthing in their powers (practically speaking, ofcourse) to let you know that you're account is going to be expired in the near future. Thus giving you EVERY opportunity to extend your membership.
Then you got this complete ar** on the phone, probably with domestic problems or so....
I feel for you, Backtothemac.
But please, give your name justice! Don't let one f*ckup knock you over to the dark, and much unhappier side....

LethalWolfe

Aug 29, 2003, 02:51 PM

When you call does it show in their computers who the last rep was to access your account? If so I'd call back, get that persons name/number and contact their supervisor. That person should not have hung up on you when you asked for their supervisor. Also, that rep sounds like a noob. The more the deal w/customers the better you should get at politely calling them liars. ;)

Anyway, I don't see what got this guy's panties in a wad. It wasn't like B2TM was trying to get something from Apple he just wanted to know why his account was closed seemingly w/o notice (and I assume re-open it). The rep should have apologized for the inconvience of having the account closed and that he would check w/the .Mac department (you know what I mean) to make sure their "autonotification" system is running fine. Apologize again to B2TM and then take his $99. :)

Lethal

zulgand04

Aug 29, 2003, 03:30 PM

About the no renewal notices, I got a email from apple in july saying i had 3 months left, and recently got another one sayong i have 2 moths left of the service. So apple does remind you, now if u ignored it then its your fault.
-Neal

agreenster

Aug 29, 2003, 03:37 PM

If your email is very important to your business, then all the more reason to pay the 99 bucks.

You really have to wait until you get paid to fork over less than 100 dollars? How do you eat? Not trying to be mean, but if its for your business, take it out of petty cash or something.

I can see why the rep was upset because there was literally nothing he could do for you. You have to pay to play. It isnt his fault (or Apple's) that the email wasnt read by you. If the email wasn't sent by Apple, then that sux. But you still owe 99 bucks.

You have to be in his shoes for a sec- You're a guy calling and complaining that your account has been deactiviated because you didnt know it was time to pay the bill. He's probably thinking you are just irresponsible, and his job is to tell you to pay it. Then you get defensive by saying, "are you calling me a liar?" and he gets fed up and hangs up.

Good customer service? -well not really, but I probably would have hung up on you too for being rude, especially when its you trying to get a favor. But it doesnt warrant getting all upset about it when the bottom line still is you didnt pay your bill. What did you expect him to do? Give you 1 month free to wait until you get paid? According to them, they sent you an email, and its your responsibility to know when it expires anyway.

Backtothemac

Aug 29, 2003, 03:39 PM

That is fine, exept I did not delete the mail. I have every email sent to me for the last three years. So it isn't in there, and wasn't deleted.

They did not send it, and I am trying to verify why with Apple right now.

Yea, I am that broke. I just paid 1800 for my wifes tuition for school, and had to put 1200 into my car. So, that pretty much tapped me out until the next pay check.

MacsRgr8

Aug 29, 2003, 03:49 PM

There must be some way for Apple to show that they really did send those emails.
AFAI can tell, it's your word against theirs: You insist you didn't receive the emails, they claim they did send them.

Somebody's right.
But stating you keep all your emails isn't watertight, but they can prove the emails were sent.... not received, though. Oh well, I don't know.

My advice; forget the matter of "what went wrong", and try to settle this....

Good luck, man.

patrick0brien

Aug 29, 2003, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by MacsRgr8
My advice; forget the matter of "what went wrong", and try to settle this....

-MacsRgr8

Absolutely. It's time to just 'work the problem'. We can yell bi** and moan until we're out of breath. But then we would still have the problem, but winded.

Foucault

Aug 29, 2003, 04:00 PM

we have enough wine *sic* here to bankrupt France

Rezet

Aug 30, 2003, 12:41 AM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Accept that I don't have a credit card. Just a debit card. Man, I am really pissed. I just called Apple and said thanks for the warning. The guy on the phone was a complete ass!

"Mr. Stacey, it is not our responsiblity to keep track of your responsibilities."

Yea, that is nice. :mad:

Dude, seriously. With your attitude, the response from the support was too kind...
It is your responsibility and not theirs. Just because you are not organized and don't pay attention to log out warnings, doesn't mean apple has to hang itself...

iJon

Aug 30, 2003, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Rezet
Dude, seriously. With your attitude, the response from the support was too kind...
It is your responsibility and not theirs. Just because you are not organized and don't pay attention to log out warnings, doesn't mean apple has to hang itself...
bravo, this thread is ridiculous. if money is so tight and you have to have .mac right away why dont you go mow some lawns and wash some cars. go make a hotmail account.

iJon

Backtothemac

Aug 30, 2003, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by Rezet
Dude, seriously. With your attitude, the response from the support was too kind...
It is your responsibility and not theirs. Just because you are not organized and don't pay attention to log out warnings, doesn't mean apple has to hang itself...

You know what my attitude is fine. Don't really know where you are coming off attacking me personally. So, lets clear things up shall we sport?

Organized. Yea, Father, husband, worker, student. Much going on. 2. NEVER GOT A WARNING HOW MUCH CLEARER CAN I MAKE THAT!

Backtothemac

Aug 30, 2003, 01:18 AM

Originally posted by iJon
bravo, this thread is ridiculous. if money is so tight and you have to have .mac right away why dont you go mow some lawns and wash some cars. go make a hotmail account.

iJon

Don't really have time to. The thread wasn't about me needing money to pay for .Mac, it was how Apple has consistantly allowed their customer service to degrade to the point that warning emails are not reaching their destination, but that is about normal with all of the .Mac outages that have occured since it went to a pay service.

iJon

Aug 30, 2003, 01:20 AM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Don't really have time to. The thread wasn't about me needing money to pay for .Mac, it was how Apple has consistantly allowed their customer service to degrade to the point that warning emails are not reaching their destination, but that is about normal with all of the .Mac outages that have occured since it went to a pay service.
i don't think its bad. the past month i have seen ads for free games, money off the apple store, big letters on the .mac page saying renew now. i advise you when you get your paycheck to go pick up 2 boxes so you dont encounter this again.

iJon

hulugu

Aug 30, 2003, 02:46 AM

The thing is I've talked to the Apple Reps three times since I bought my Powerbook and they've always been very helpful. And frankly, BTM from working in customer service back in the day I've found that customers can be extremely rude, abusive and outright illogical. Is it possible you called with a chip on you shoulder?
Don't get me wrong the Apple Rep could havve been a total jackass and you were as nice as you could be, but I would seriously consider whether I went off on someone before I get furious with the entire company. As for the service it would have been very nice for them to send you a warning 30 days before the expiration either through your .mac account or by snail-mail, but they are not required to do so and frankly I don't mind being entirely reponsible for all of my own bills and systems. I don't think you should need your hand held.

jlambert

Aug 30, 2003, 01:42 PM

Q: How do I renew my .Mac membership?

If you are set to auto-renew (check the Credit Card Info page in your Account settings), you will receive a message about 30 days before your anniversary date letting you know that your account is set to be renewed automatically with the credit card you provided. If you are not set to auto-renew, you will get a series of messages before your anniversary date with instructions on how to renew your account. You will be directed to the .Mac site where you can enter your credit card information or an activation key, if you purchased a .Mac box. You will not be charged until your anniversary date.

Q: Can I use a .Mac retail box to renew my .Mac membership?
Yes. Simply go to www.mac.com/activate, enter the member name and password for the account you'd like to renew and your activation key code from the .Mac box, and follow the instructions. You will only need a credit card if you have purchased .Mac add-ons such as additional email accounts or storage space, or wish to add them for your next year.

Q: How early prior to expiration can I set my .Mac account to renew?

As a manual renewer or activation key renewer, you can set your .Mac account to renew 60 days prior to your anniversary date. However, at any point during the year you can set yourself to auto-renew by updating your credit card information and checking the auto-renew button on the Credit Card Info page in your Account Settings. You will not be charged until your anniversary date.

Something that is a must for your business should always be set to Auto-Renew.

Backtothemac

Aug 30, 2003, 03:55 PM

Well, it was set to auto renew, which is another mystery. I am working with a supervisor, who has confirmed that the emails never went out, and they cannot explain why they did not charge the card. They are talking about giving me a free year, which, I don't need. Just keeping it going until the 13th would be enough for me.

MacsRgr8

Aug 30, 2003, 04:00 PM

I would take that free year.
It accepts the apologies....

Anyway. Good for you!

iJon

Aug 30, 2003, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, it was set to auto renew, which is another mystery. I am working with a supervisor, who has confirmed that the emails never went out, and they cannot explain why they did not charge the card. They are talking about giving me a free year, which, I don't need. Just keeping it going until the 13th would be enough for me.
isnt it good that they didnt charge it, i mean you dont have any money right now. but if you play your cards right they will give you a free year, so i would just enjoy.

iJon

simX

Sep 1, 2003, 02:51 AM

BTTM:

Like others have pointed out, it's Apple's word against yours. And it seems that you've gotten through to the supervisor, and that maybe Apple did make some mistakes.

Regardless, the best way to deal with customer service is not to get angry about it. Be nice, explain the situation clearly, and if the customer service guy is being mean or is not helping you out, ask to talk to the supervisor. If he hangs up, call back, and immediately ask to talk to a supervisor. The more calm you are, the more leverage you have when you talk to people higher up the ranks -- if you explain to the supervisor how mean the original customer service rep was to you, without getting mad about it, chances are that the supervisor will understand and will get the problem corrected immediately, if not offerring you something with which to sweeten the deal (like the free year with .mac you are potentially being offerred). It's not worth it to get mad about something when you still have the problem to deal with.

Again, I can't work off of the knowledge of what actually happened during that conversation, but I can only offer what experience I've had. Calmly working through the problem works in almost every case.

I hope you finally got your problem resolved, though.

ryme4reson

Sep 1, 2003, 04:05 AM

I dont mean to butt in, but it sounds like BTTM is acting like my grandmother. She always blames everyone else. I remember returning a cordless phone to fry's for my grandparents and although the return policy (that was everywhere, including the receipt) stated no cash refund > 200, they demanded the cash, until they finally got it. Whose responsibility is it for not READING THE F***IN policy. You know the .mac account is purchased @ 1 year intervals. Just like the 35MPH speed limit is the limit. The State Trooper doesnt have to "warn" you of it.

BTTM, to me it sounds like you are acting very childish. When my cell phone gets cut off because my friend on the account doesnt pay his portion, I dont call verizon and beg them to keep the phone on till the 1st of the month cause I met this girl at the club last week and shes a nice piece of poon-tang, and to miss her call would be tragic.

Grow up, get your head out of your ass, and pay your bills. Your bill due dates are not the responsibility or Apple, or your mom. Just like your boss doesnt call you in the morning "wake up sunshine, time to get ready to face the world."

Sure, bitch and moan enough and Apple will give you .mac for a year, or whatever, but thats because mig businesses would rather shut the bitching people up, then hassle with them.

Lastly, you could always sell your Dell, and check your email from the library. With the proceeds of the Dell, you could probably buy .mac, and get some taco bell, for you and your wife. :)

britboy

Sep 1, 2003, 05:12 AM

I can't understand why some people are still having a go a B2TM about this. He's explained what the problem is, several times, and been (what i would consider) reasonable. In fact, the apple supervisor he's corresponding with has already accepted that they made a mistake. Just try and be glad that it's now being sorted out, and someone at apple is trying to make good an unfortunate situation.

If all you can do is criticise, then please at least make sure your criticism is not just a moot point.

ryme4reson

Sep 1, 2003, 05:50 AM

There is a differnence between "making a mistake" and correcting it, and just doing what is needed to correct a problem, or problem customer.

I recently paid 150 to my old Dorm mamanger @ LSU. They said I left the dorm a mess, and it was my word againt the maintenance person. By paying the 150, I was not admitting guilt or fault, but rather getting rid of a headache. For me the 150 was worth it for the income I make.

So, by Apple saying here is a doggie treat, are you happy now, doesnt mean they feel bad, or take responsibility. Next you are gonna say Apple is responsible for the G5 shipment delays, and they are resonsibile for the lost productivity. Apple needs to send me one free for all this waiting, lol.

billyboy

Sep 1, 2003, 10:34 AM

If Apple wants to avoid the sort of episode being painfully analysed here without overhauling their verification system, they could just cut out the friendly option , ie we´ll let you opt out of auto renewal and take it on ourselves to let you know when to pay". They could legitimately do that if they wanted and be like the rest of the world, banking on people´s forgetfulness and deducting renewal prescriptions whether people want the service or not.

Personally I hope they stay a bit different, being way more helpful than they need to be, but just do whatever it takes to make sure everyone gets a warning and there is a 365 days to go countdown so everyone knows how many days is remaining on .mac accounts. But then that wont please some people because there us a t least one ex user who doesnt even go to the fricking home page from one year to the next.

Personally if matey gets a year´s free membership for venting, then he fell in the s*** and came out smelling of s***flavored roses. His two bad episodes dont cancel out the basically very very good customer service record of a multi billion dollar company, and if anyone ever mentions the word liar to me during a conversation, I would always hang up too. It is a very loaded word and sort of ruins a balanced discussion.

Edot

Sep 1, 2003, 11:28 AM

I don't know why Apple would have sent a bill. You didn't owe them anything! This is a pre-pay service. They are not responsible for gathering your payment because you have already made it. Most bills are sent because you owe them money for the service you have already used. As for .Mac, this is not the case.

However, I don't know why they wouldn't try to gain repeat business and send you an advertisement to renew because your subscription is expiring!!!!???

Backtothemac

Sep 1, 2003, 11:42 AM

Well, the supervisor said that they could not give the free year, nor carry it for 30 days. So, that did it. I have washed my hands of them. I have spent over $20,000 in Mac purchases over the last 4 years.

You, those who are attacking me, are failing to understand the problem. There was no bill. You tell me to get my head out of my ass and pay my bills, THERE WAS NOT A BILL!

And sorry, but I am not a student whose worst problem is where the next kegger is, but a father, husband, business man, community leader, and have far more going on that to try to remember when my .Mac membership expires. :rolleyes:

As a company, Apple needs to court as many people as they can with .Mac. It only makes sense that they would do so. At no point was I rude with them, nor curse, nor threaten anything.

Britboy, thanks for getting my back.

billyboy

Sep 1, 2003, 12:03 PM

Sorry mate but you are mad!!!! There has been a misunderstanding over something that represents .005% of your financial dealings with a company and you wipe your hands of them. That is setting some pretty high standards in rightful behavior. Is that the sort of standard you expect from everyone you deal with in your busy life?

If you say your .mac account, a convenience to most people, is worth thousands in lost revenue or whatever for you, then the buck for keeping it up to date definitely stops with you.

Get the hang of iCal, have a few beers and loosen up.

iJon

Sep 1, 2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by billyboy
Get the hang of iCal, have a few beers and loosen up.
what are you talking about, he isnt a student waiting for the next kegger, geez dont you read anything.

iJon

Backtothemac

Sep 1, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by billyboy
Sorry mate but you are mad!!!! There has been a misunderstanding over something that represents .005% of your financial dealings with a company and you wipe your hands of them. That is setting some pretty high standards in rightful behavior. Is that the sort of standard you expect from everyone you deal with in your busy life?

If you say your .mac account, a convenience to most people, is worth thousands in lost revenue or whatever for you, then the buck for keeping it up to date definitely stops with you.

Get the hang of iCal, have a few beers and loosen up.

No the washing of hands comes from more than just this. There was the Cinema Display ordeal. The iMac DOA twice deal. Changing the reseller agreement to squeeze out small resellers like the one that I worked for. And a downgrade of customer support that is unacceptable.

;) So, I am mad, but I have not been rude with Apple.

iJon

Sep 1, 2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
No the washing of hands comes from more than just this. There was the Cinema Display ordeal. The iMac DOA twice deal. Changing the reseller agreement to squeeze out small resellers like the one that I worked for. And a downgrade of customer support that is unacceptable.

;) So, I am mad, but I have not been rude with Apple.
apple is only mean to resellers if you they dont hold their weight with selling so much stuff. sorry things went bad. luckily this doesnt happen to everyone, if it did no one would like apple.

iJon

Backtothemac

Sep 1, 2003, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by iJon
apple is only mean to resellers if you they dont hold their weight with selling so much stuff. sorry things went bad. luckily this doesnt happen to everyone, if it did no one would like apple.

iJon

1.83 Mil in sales over the last year. Not bad really considering the year before we did 12,000$ in sales. ;)

billyboy

Sep 1, 2003, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
No the washing of hands comes from more than just this. There was the Cinema Display ordeal. The iMac DOA twice deal. Changing the reseller agreement to squeeze out small resellers like the one that I worked for. And a downgrade of customer support that is unacceptable.

;) So, I am mad, but I have not been rude with Apple.

Ouch, you must have been a really bad person in another life!!! You werent keeping a PC in the house while using, or in your case, trying to use a Mac were you? :(

Backtothemac

Sep 1, 2003, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by billyboy
Ouch, you must have been a really bad person in another life!!! You werent keeping a PC in the house while using, or in your case, trying to use a Mac were you? :(

Yea, I have a Dell 8300.

I also have my daughters iMac. My 17" is gone now.

StealthRider

Sep 1, 2003, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by ryme4reson
I dont mean to butt in, but it sounds like BTTM is acting like my grandmother. She always blames everyone else. I remember returning a cordless phone to fry's for my grandparents and although the return policy (that was everywhere, including the receipt) stated no cash refund > 200, they demanded the cash, until they finally got it. Whose responsibility is it for not READING THE F***IN policy. You know the .mac account is purchased @ 1 year intervals. Just like the 35MPH speed limit is the limit. The State Trooper doesnt have to "warn" you of it.

BTTM, to me it sounds like you are acting very childish. When my cell phone gets cut off because my friend on the account doesnt pay his portion, I dont call verizon and beg them to keep the phone on till the 1st of the month cause I met this girl at the club last week and shes a nice piece of poon-tang, and to miss her call would be tragic.

Grow up, get your head out of your ass, and pay your bills. Your bill due dates are not the responsibility or Apple, or your mom. Just like your boss doesnt call you in the morning "wake up sunshine, time to get ready to face the world."

Sure, bitch and moan enough and Apple will give you .mac for a year, or whatever, but thats because mig businesses would rather shut the bitching people up, then hassle with them.

Lastly, you could always sell your Dell, and check your email from the library. With the proceeds of the Dell, you could probably buy .mac, and get some taco bell, for you and your wife. :)

Who is bitching and moaning?! Cause it sure doesn't sound like BTTM is any more than you are...I agree with the next post after yours...

ryme4reson

Sep 1, 2003, 09:08 PM

BTTM is bitching.... examples you say...

I just called Apple and said thanks for the warning -- and they were like got to hell!

how Apple has consistantly allowed their customer service to degrade to the point that warning emails are not reaching their destination -- they dont HAVE to send you ANYTHING.

No the washing of hands comes from more than just this. --So this ass is gonna wash his hands from a company that does hundreds of millions in sales a year. YOUR WILL BE MISSED!

have spent over $20,000 in Mac purchases over the last 4 years. --So I deserve something for my carelessness. Its not my fault Im a dumbass, its Apple's, they should pay! HAHA

At no point was I rude with them, nor curse, nor threaten anything. -- I didnt threaten them, well I did "wash my hands of them" but I didnt tell them, well not until the end. lol

iPC

Sep 1, 2003, 11:03 PM

Threads of this nature seem to be becoming more and more commone. Things are not looking well for Apple from what I can gather as of late:

1. Market share has not moved in 2 years.
2. Customer service quality getting spotty.
3. Hardware QC slipping.
4. Difficulty delivering orders of new hardware.
5. Switch campaign largely unaffective. (leading to point 1).

Anectdotes:

My roommate bought the iBook 500 (dvd) shortly after it was released. Being a big linux guy, he really liked OS X and influenced the purchasing decisions of a few friends looking for good laptops. Then, about 3 weeks after the warranty expired (1 year) the clasp broke. The kicker? Nearly $600 to get fixed by Apple (parts, labor, and shipping).

The brother of my ex-girlfriend is borderline Mac zealot. He has a Pismo, and the warranty (3 year) expired a little while ago. Now his trackpad doesn't work, and he's stuck with a mouse until he can fix it (he used to work at a Mac repair shop). Only $40 or so, but very annoying.

Realities:

G5's are slow to ship. Been 2 months since anouncement, and the duals still aren't in peoples hands yet. Duals supposedly 50% or more of the 100,000 machines ordered since the G5 was made known.

New Al powerbooks (12" and 17") were slow to ship after anouncement. 12" suffers from heat problems, and the 17" doesn't seem to sell as well as expected.

Still no new 15" PowerBook. Expecting shift to Al from Ti, AE and BT on board.

Long time since iMac update. Probably just another speed bump (1.25GHz).

iBook unchanged besides minor speed bumps (and cheaper shell design) for last 2 years. 'Gobi' rumors still out there.

iPod update was minor change and larger hdd. Basic function unchanged. Video rumors persist.

xServe sales a disappointment. Cutting edge hardware (read G5) needed now to help sales.

Education market sales not nearly what they used to be.

New corporate market sales initiative needs bolstering. Inexpensive headless Mac needed (sales pitch along the lines of; "keep everything you have except for your old tower, keyboard and mouse").

Opinions:

Apple seems adrift. There is Jobs at the helm, but it does not seem that he is manning the tiller. (bad puns - sorry)

Conclusion:

Someone at Apple needs to put up or shut up. Whether it's SJ, or the board of directors, I don't care. The company has been sending mixed signals for years now, and it does not appear that they have the capability to fix it right now. The G5 will not save them, just as OS X did not save them. It takes more than that to convince the public at large. Just ask HP/Compaq or AOL/TW.

Backtothemac

Sep 1, 2003, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by ryme4reson
BTTM is bitching.... examples you say...

I just called Apple and said thanks for the warning -- and they were like got to hell!

how Apple has consistantly allowed their customer service to degrade to the point that warning emails are not reaching their destination -- they dont HAVE to send you ANYTHING.

No the washing of hands comes from more than just this. --So this ass is gonna wash his hands from a company that does hundreds of millions in sales a year. YOUR WILL BE MISSED!

have spent over $20,000 in Mac purchases over the last 4 years. --So I deserve something for my carelessness. Its not my fault Im a dumbass, its Apple's, they should pay! HAHA

At no point was I rude with them, nor curse, nor threaten anything. -- I didnt threaten them, well I did "wash my hands of them" but I didnt tell them, well not until the end. lol

All I did was present a problem that is larger than just one person. Yes, I was mad, who would not be. But to call me a dumbass, well, that is just about childish.

ryme4reson

Sep 1, 2003, 11:23 PM

G5's are slow to ship. Been 2 months since anouncement, and the duals still aren't in peoples hands yet. Duals supposedly 50% or more of the 100,000 machines ordered since the G5 was made known.

New Al powerbooks (12" and 17") were slow to ship after anouncement. 12" suffers from heat problems, and the 17" doesn't seem to sell as well as expected.

Still no new 15" PowerBook. Expecting shift to Al from Ti, AE and BT on board.

Long time since iMac update. Probably just another speed bump (1.25GHz).

iBook unchanged besides minor speed bumps (and cheaper shell design) for last 2 years. 'Gobi' rumors still out there.

iPod update was minor change and larger hdd. Basic function unchanged. Video rumors persist.

xServe sales a disappointment. Cutting edge hardware (read G5) needed now to help sales.

Education market sales not nearly what they used to be.

I am sorry you feel this way, but please tell me how the G5's are slow to ship? I thought they were to ship in August? I wasent under the impression all order would be delived in Aug,, we you?

I think you are missing the difference between an anouncement and shipping date. Apple is a small company by tech standards with slow tech when it comes to hardware so they have to compensate by displaying HW before its ready.

iPC

Sep 2, 2003, 12:29 AM

Originally posted by ryme4reson
I am sorry you feel this way, but please tell me how the G5's are slow to ship? I thought they were to ship in August? I wasent under the impression all order would be delived in Aug,, we you?

I think you are missing the difference between an anouncement and shipping date. Apple is a small company by tech standards with slow tech when it comes to hardware so they have to compensate by displaying HW before its ready.
Announcing with huge fanfare in June that new G5 models will ship in August implies more than the low end at very small quantities. If you want to pick nits, yes Apple did ship the G5 in August. Does not appear to be first come, first serve. Nor does it appear that any of the duals shipped (1/2 of what is on order). And now peoples ship dates are going farther out! I was under the impression that more than a few machines would ship, and that it would have been for all 3 basic configurations (1.6/1.8/dual 2.0). Apple does not have to show hardware off before it is ready, they choose to as a means to artificially boost that quarters sales. It is a old accounting trick, great to show to the investors as a increase in performance, when nothing has really been done (ie - no shipements and no payments received). You can have all the open orders you want, they don't mean squat until they are shipped.

hulugu

Sep 2, 2003, 01:06 AM

I was under the impression that Virginia bought a bunch of the DP 2.0s to build a super-computer, so while the consumers may only be getting the 1.6 for now, Apple is "shipping" their machines they're just filling their educational and government requirements first. I don't totally agree with this, but I can see the point. As for BTM, dude they messed up (by not reminding you 12 times like a magazine subscription—which I find totally annoying) and so did you by A. not keeping track and B. by being an irrate customer and maybe acting like a jerk—I wasn't there so I can't say for certain, but in my experience when customers feel mistreated they are often abusive. Not always true. Finally, BTM they tried to fix the problem and give you a year for free, so I would say problem solved.
As for QC, I can't imagine how people break things like screens and latches without claiming that it's Apple's fault. If you break a latch you put too much pressure on the material. That sounds like abuse, and it just sucks that it came after the end of the 1 year warranty.
As for market share, remember if Company A sells 10 computers out of a market of 100 computers one year and then sells 20 computers out of 200 sold the next year their market share has remained stagnant (or stable it depends of how you look at it). I don't think this is entirely true for Apple's case, but you can't use market share as the only data regarding the health of any company. The G5 sold 200,000 machines before one even shipped, people are excited by these machines in a way that no other hardware company can match.
So, what should Apple do, here's what I think:

1. Upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. New PB AI w/ BT APX, a G5 if they can figure out the heat issues at higher processing speeds. Faster memory, buses, and the best video cards they can buy.
2. Let IBM work on the G3, let it compete as a choice with the G4 and give Moto a run. I understand the G3 may be able to reach higher speeds and this may be a way to make things work.
3. Work harder with developers, including Adobe. Don't let them state that Apple is faltering (ie Adobe). But, continue to create products and systems that fill holes (like VPC) other vendors might not fill.
4. Continue on the digital hub and the switch campaign. These things can work and should not be abandoned in the short-term. In fact, the evangelization of products in the server market, the creative environ (getting Pixar to use the G5 is a major coup and should become a continuous partnership), and back to education should remain a significant priority.
5. Advertise damnit. I want to see an Apple add right after every one of those damned Dell intern adds.
6. iTunes for Windows, iPod for Windows, but don't ever move to the x86. The PPC has a future and Apple can only survive by differentiating itself among vendors.
7. Work with OSS: Linux is the future, I believe even after the continuous SCO debacle. Safari and X11 are good examples of this, but Apple needs to do better. It needs to be prepared to move towards enterprise versions of Linux, where the transition will give OSX abilites to work creatively with the 'heavy iron' of Linux could give it real traction if done correctly.
8. Lastly, work with customers, keep them happy and try very hard to keep customers, no matter how difficult. ;)
9. Think of the future: iPad anyone?

LimeLite

Sep 2, 2003, 03:00 AM

I think almost all that's needed to be said has been said, except this: Just because you've had bad luck with Apple does not make them a bad company. I've always had great luck with them and they've always worked wonderfully with me. But you should use a machine based on how it works, not based on their customer service, especially since it's a whole platform difference. And one minor note, you mentioned that you were too busy to remember when your .mac account expired. However, you've also said it is an important business email address. If that is the case, then it *was* important and you should have been on top of it. They call the reminders sent in the mail or in email "courtesy reminders". Why? Because it's not required, it's a courtesy. Now, based on what the supervisor said, and what others have said, obviously Apple *does* send out reminders. But just because the system messed up and you didn't get one doesn't mean they owe you a free year. The reminder would have been a bonus.

I just really think you should think about the whole situation from a less angry point of view and realize that both sides could have handled things differently. (read *better*)

Backtothemac

Sep 2, 2003, 09:11 AM

Zealotry amazes me. How one can be so blind and loyal to something that they cannot see the truth.

I am not describing all of your experiences, but yet mine. There was more than just this to make me tired of Apple, and iJon, can testify to some of the stuff that has turned me away.

Don't get me wrong. I love the product, but the backend is just not there. As for buying for backend. I would rather have a car that broke down every week, but was fixed in a timely fashion, than one that broke down once in a decade, but I was treated like **** when it did.

billyboy

Sep 2, 2003, 09:47 AM

Originally posted by iPC
Threads of this nature seem to be becoming more and more commone.

If you think its bad here go to the Apple forum. Then again the idea of these places is to air problems. There are 20 million macs out there, somehow I dont think that those posting complaints actually constitute a worrying percentage of Mac owners.

Opinions:

Apple seems adrift. There is Jobs at the helm, but it does not seem that he is manning the tiller. (bad puns - sorry)

Conclusion:

Someone at Apple needs to put up or shut up. Whether it's SJ, or the board of directors, I don't care. The company has been sending mixed signals for years now, and it does not appear that they have the capability to fix it right now. The G5 will not save them, just as OS X did not save them. It takes more than that to convince the public at large. Just ask HP/Compaq or AOL/TW. [/QUOTE]

I have never met SJ or really know much about him, but to be fair, having read he has a 95% thumbs up on some poll that he is doing a good job right now as CEO, he seems a pretty good bet as leader.

There are a lot of impressive balls being juggled and lined up right now, and I dont really see any single company in the computer game being as dynamic as Apple is right now. BTTM is teed off which is a shame, but the wheels will continue to roll and hopefully Apple will innovate not just hw and sw products but a really tight .mac renewal set up.

The bloke in an earlier post who says pre announcing is a stunt to woo investors, too true. The whole point of the stock market is guaging expectations of the future. Sales today are of little interest to people looking for a future return on capital. If the share price shoots up due to a great bit of spiel from Jobs, and nothing comes along, the price drops down again. Simple really. Thing is though, AAPL has been going up steadily, so people with their money where their mouths are think Apple and Jobs are worth backing.

Fat_Tonie

Sep 2, 2003, 02:57 PM

Why even use .Mac? The e-mail you can get for free from yahoo or your ISP. If you pay $99 for it, that will pay for a virus scanner. If you have to back up, back up to an external drive or your cd-burner. Can't you download the updates for free from apple anyways? In most cases web hosting is offered for free at most ISPs. Doesn't OS X come with an address book? Am I failing to see the benefit of .Mac? Is there something that I am missing? I am going to switch as soon as panther is released, but I really do not see an upside to .Mac.

Nathan

Schiffi

Sep 2, 2003, 03:08 PM

Me niether, that's why i don't have a .mac account. It's optional.

hulugu

Sep 2, 2003, 03:28 PM

As I understand it, I don't have it either, you can use .Mac to sync info from one machine to another: iCal, Safari bookmarks, etc. And you can use it to access files, backup, Virex, and web-hosting.
The nice thing, really is all these services are wrapped into a single system rather than having backup at home on CD (which incidentally you should always backup offsite, what if you house floods or burns down?) anti-virus software, FTP and webhosting from someone else, etc.
Is it worth 99.00 to do that? I don't know, I tried it for 30 days and enjoyed the things I could do with it, but I didn't re-up my membership.

SiliconAddict

Sep 2, 2003, 07:15 PM

Sounds like .MAC accounts are suppose to inform you of its expiration even if you aren't using a CCard.

You know if I has such an *** as a rep I would have been calling back and asking for a manager. Esp if this *** hung up on me. Someone deserves to get fired.

hulugu

Sep 2, 2003, 08:05 PM

"Zealotry amazes me. How one can be so blind and loyal to something that they cannot see the truth.

Don't get me wrong. I love the product, but the backend is just not there. As for buying for backend. I would rather have a car that broke down every week, but was fixed in a timely fashion, than one that broke down once in a decade, but I was treated like **** when it did."

I think this horse is been turned to leather by now, so I will make this my last post on the subject:

I love how everytime I disagree with someone about Apple I'm labeled a zealot. Well then give me my holy cross, my stead and point me towards Damascus. But, simply BTTM I think you overreacted. Second, I'd rather the car I buy work every time, if it breaks down I'm willing to ask for a fix and calmly undertand that if I do something stupid, like say never put oil in it, that the company not might accept my seized-up engine and a huge chip on my shoulder with the most gracious of actions. Fact is, you blew it, they screwed up and then they tried to fix it. I mean really, they gave you a free year. What the hell are you still complaining about?
Apple is failing apart because a tech hung up on me. Ahhh! They're a corporation damnit, they're not your parents, your wife, or your pope. Deal with it.

Backtothemac

Sep 2, 2003, 08:11 PM

Originally posted by hulugu
I mean really, they gave you a free year. What the hell are you still complaining about?
Apple is failing apart because a tech hung up on me. Ahhh! They're a corporation damnit, they're not your parents, your wife, or your pope. Deal with it.

Actually, no, they did not give the free year, nor extend the 30 days I needed. And, I don't care who they are, I don't have to deal with it. I am a consumer, and a history has made me decide to walk away for a while.

Gus

Sep 2, 2003, 09:09 PM

I am in utter awe of the way the people on these boards are treating Chuck. Having done business with him, I can tell you that he is a responsible person, and that if he is angry, there is a reason. You keep harping on him to pay the "bill" of a "measly" $99 to Apple, but when you live on a very tight budget, $99 can break the bank for the month, ESPECIALLY when you have children.

Apple should have sent out an e-mail to him. This is a service that they are trying to sell, so the reminder is not a bill, but an advertisement and an enticement to continue the service. Now that they have admitted to making the mistake of not sending the e-mail reminder, or auto-renewing his account, they should, as a business, do everything in their power to rectify the situation.

How dare ANY of you attack him as being childish. He is a paying customer that is unhappy with his service and treatment. He has every right to complain, and complain loudly. There are far too many situations in which individuals or companies deal with customers poorly and no one says anything about it. As a result, service and products only get worse.

Why is it that when someone gets scammed for a computer purchase, hundreds of people flock to nab the person that did it intead of just calling the scammee an idiot? Why are some of the same people attacking this guy that was treated poorly by a legitimate company?

Those of you who have $99 laying around to purchase things on a whim are fortunate, but will never understand what it is like to have to barely get by, I think.

B2TM, I hope when the dust settles you are still with us.

Regards,
Gus

hulugu

Sep 2, 2003, 10:12 PM

"Well, it was set to auto renew, which is another mystery. I am working with a supervisor, who has confirmed that the emails never went out, and they cannot explain why they did not charge the card. They are talking about giving me a free year, which, I don't need. Just keeping it going until the 13th would be enough for me."
"Well, the supervisor said that they could not give the free year, nor carry it for 30 days. So, that did it. I have washed my hands of them."

So, no deal from Apple huh? They dropped the ball and I apologize that I missed this. I am disapointed that they did not extend your service or give you some kind of deal, and that does show poor customer service. I still stand by the rest of my posts, especially about customer relations: the customer is not always right, often they are confused, angry or just illogical. Sometimes they scream, a lot of them lie, and they unfortunately obscure the customers who are nice and just want to work a problem.
It sounds like you tried to do that, they failed you and I can now understand how you feel.
All of my dealings with Apple have been far more sucessful and satisfying than with Dell and HP and I still stand by Apple because they have always delivered a superior product with very impressive service, but I can see how you don't feel the same.
Next time, don't call me a zealot and I'll read every post.

G3-Pwnz-G4

Sep 2, 2003, 11:45 PM

i personally think .mac is no way in hell worth 99 bucks. yahoo has an excellent free e-mail thing, angelfire has reliable free web hosting/file space. i don't see how it's worth that much money.

Backtothemac

Sep 3, 2003, 12:09 AM

Gus, thanks for the support man. It means a lot. Really, I cannot tell you how much it means to me to have a voice defend you.

hulugu
No need to appologize. It is difficult here to assertain the truth. I have been very very cordual with Apple. I love the product, and cannot imagine my house without a Mac. I am just very, very frustrated with them right now for many reasons. Mostly how some of my clients have been treated with problems with their system. I remember a day when Apple would jump at the chance to help a customer with a problem. Some of my friends, who are very trenched in Apple have never had one problem. For Example Maury at railheaddesign.com. However, lately, I have seen a trend of very aggressive business practices, and lower effort in customer support.

All I wanted from them was a simple sorry we forgot to remind you. That was all. I could not even get that. And I do believe that the customer is always right. I have had them lie to my face, and I knew they were not telling the truth. However, I never, ever let them know that I knew. See, if they feel they are right, they will return to you, because they trust you. The bond of trust between a customer and a company is very, very easy to break, especially today when there are so many options for customers. iJon can attest to that.

I never meant to ruffle feathers with this thread, nor did I mean to offend anyone. I was trying to vent frustration over something that I felt Apple had dropped the ball over.

zimv20

Sep 3, 2003, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
I need arn to change my name now.

no worries on the name change, it just needs a new interpretation. i.e. "i turn my back to the mac"

:-)

Rezet

Sep 3, 2003, 01:38 AM

Jeez, this thread is annoying. Backtothemac is annoying.
4 pages of worthless arguments just because someone's account didn't get renewed? Lay it to rest already!
Complain to Apple, not to us. We won't renew your account BTTM.

britboy

Sep 3, 2003, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by Rezet
Jeez, this thread is annoying. Backtothemac is annoying.
4 pages of worthless arguments just because someone's account didn't get renewed? Lay it to rest already!
Complain to Apple, not to us. We won't renew your account BTTM.

"No-one expected a spanish inquisition" comes to mind. This is about more than just an account which didn't get renewed. It's about a series of bad experiences that B2TM has had with apple after-sales, resulting in him not wanting to have to deal with them anymore. In this case, someone at apple obviously made a mistake, the email reminders were not sent out, and a supervisor accepted responsibility on behalf of apple. How much more clear-cut can that get?

Why is B2TM annoying? Is it simply because he does not agree with you? You can't expect everyone to simply concur with your views. Personally I've had nothing but good experiences when dealing with apple. That still doesn't mean that everyone is going to have had the same quality of service that I have. If someone has a complaint about apple, there is a chance that it's legitimate.

5300cs

Sep 3, 2003, 08:46 AM

All the people who are trashing BTTM, if this same thing happened to you guys, you'd be posting your own threads just like this so take a hike.
I won't brag and say I've had nothing but good service from Apple- 'cause I can see how they would piss some people off. I am an Apple fan, but some things that have transpired over the last 2 years have pissed me off. Like $500 to repair the CD drive on my iBook (JUST a CD drive, not a combo drive.) Apple being rude to BTTM doesn't sound that far-fetched.
Have you thought about reporting them to the BBB or is that a waste of time?

BTTM- I'm interested in hearing what you will do from now on. Specifically, when it comes time to buy a new machine, have you been pushed too far to buy another Mac? You say you like the product, but will you buy one again, or stay away from it for fear of the same problems?

ryme4reson

Sep 3, 2003, 08:53 AM

This is becoming more involved that it really needs to be. The way I look at it, BackToTheMac needs to get BackToWork, because even if they sent him 100 emails, it doesnt sound like he had the money to cover it, so whats the difference, your account would have been closed because you didnt have the greenbacks to cover it in the first place.

Moxiemike

Sep 3, 2003, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by ryme4reson
This is becoming more involved that it really needs to be. The way I look at it, BackToTheMac needs to get BackToWork, because even if they sent him 100 emails, it doesnt sound like he had the money to cover it, so whats the difference, your account would have been closed because you didnt have the greenbacks to cover it in the first place.

Exactly. Backtowork. :)

But seriously.... I've been dealing with Macs for a good deal of time now (since 1998 after an absence for a few years.)

In that time I owned a G3 266 tower, a G3 333 lombard laptop, a Dual 450 G4, a Tibook 667 and a Dual Ghz tower.

I also have a 17" LCD.

Now, I haven't had many problems--far and few between. But let's examine.

The G3 266: No problems to report of

The G3 333 PowerBook: Amazing machine until the screen died under applecare. They replaced the machine with a Tibook 667. Replaced it. The whole thing. Completely unexpected.

The G4 450 dual: My first one was DOA out of the box. I called Apple, who immediately gave me an RMA # and coordinated with CompUSA to give me a brand new machine and return the faulty one.

The Tibook 667: Screen hinges broke. I was under applecare, as i was with the 333 pbook, and they fixed the hinged. For free. And I got the machine back in less than a week.

My Dual GHZ got spiked by lighting a few months back. Completely out of warranty. The apple tech support helped me reset the CUDA and get the machine up and running. And when I joked about it being my birthday, the guy said "well, this is out birthday gift. We won't charge you today"

I think the overall difference here is that, when I call Apple for support, I explain things nicely, I don't take a defensive attitude, I don't act argumentitive in the slightest.

What I've seen throughout this post is that you've treated Apple as poorly as they have treated you. Life and relationships are two way streets. And if someone is crappy to you, you can usually go a little higher up and get satisfaction. i did this with OWC once. And it worked. BUT the key is-- I never take attitude with these people. Not because I have some mythical respect for them because they do the unthinkable (support work for a computer company) but because they're people just like me, who have good and bad days, emotions, etc.

And I also know that it's tough working for a living and that nothing is going to be handed to me on a plate.

It seems like this whole argument stems from people wanting too much from companies. They make mistakes, get over it.

I'm guessing that, comparing your experiences to mine, there must be something wrong with the way you personally handle it. I'm not saying that's 100% true-- i wasn't there--but I will say that taking into account my experiences with that of others, and comparing it to yours... something seems off.

Just my .02

Backtothemac

Sep 3, 2003, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by Rezet
Jeez, this thread is annoying. Backtothemac is annoying.
4 pages of worthless arguments just because someone's account didn't get renewed? Lay it to rest already!
Complain to Apple, not to us. We won't renew your account BTTM.

Why is the thread annoying? Because someone said something bad about Apple? Don't be a zealot. That isn't a good thing to be.

Originally posted by ryme4reson
This is becoming more involved that it really needs to be. The way I look at it, BackToTheMac needs to get BackToWork, because even if they sent him 100 emails, it doesnt sound like he had the money to cover it, so whats the difference, your account would have been closed because you didnt have the greenbacks to cover it in the first place.

Dude, why the personal shots? Can you not discuss things like an adult? I have been politie to you and everyone in here. I am not bashing Macs, nor Mac users. I AM ONE. I am however taking issue with the customer service side of Apple. Others have in here as well. Why can't you see that? Why the name calling, and why the attitude?

Moxiemike

Sep 3, 2003, 09:35 AM

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Why is the thread annoying? Because someone said something bad about Apple? Don't be a zealot. That isn't a good thing to be.

Ryme

Dude, why the personal shots? Can you not discuss things like an adult? I have been politie to you and everyone in here. I am not bashing Macs, nor Mac users. I AM ONE. I am however taking issue with the customer service side of Apple. Others have in here as well. Why can't you see that? Why the name calling, and why the attitude? [/B]

Hey BTTM. Just to clear up my post-- I think you're a great guy, family man, etc. But at the same token... we've seen it before. You're argumentative and you VERY vehemently stand up for what you THINK is right.

That stuff can lead to problems.

But that said, we just deal with stuff differently... and it yields different results

Backtothemac

Sep 3, 2003, 09:41 AM

Originally posted by Moxiemike
Hey BTTM. Just to clear up my post-- I think you're a great guy, family man, etc. But at the same token... we've seen it before. You're argumentative and you VERY vehemently stand up for what you THINK is right.

That stuff can lead to problems.

But that said, we just deal with stuff differently... and it yields different results

Na, I understand that. The point from jump was to express my mood with Apple to you guys. I never thought that I would get attacked personally because of this. I have not been rude here, nor was I rude in any way with the Apple Reps.

jelloshotsrule

Sep 3, 2003, 10:01 AM

ryme4reson

Sep 3, 2003, 11:29 AM

Im not taking personal shots -- I am bringing up a valid point. If you received 10 emails would you have forked over the 100 bucks? You have already stated you dont have the money.

Or would I be reading the Thread "Damn Apple still wants 99 bucks for .mac" I had .mac last yer and I have to renew but I think we should get a free year because well [insert some stupid argument]

Backtothemac

Sep 3, 2003, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by ryme4reson
Im not taking personal shots -- I am bringing up a valid point. If you received 10 emails would you have forked over the 100 bucks? You have already stated you dont have the money.

Or would I be reading the Thread "Damn Apple still wants 99 bucks for .mac" I had .mac last yer and I have to renew but I think we should get a free year because well [insert some stupid argument]

Yes, if I would have had warning, I could have budgeted it into the mix.

Lets see, you have called me stupid, a dumbass, said I need to get Backtowork. Yea, you have made some rather personal statements that did not need to be made.