PowerBooks Still Delayed

[MacRumors]

MacBidouille (http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-09-03#439) and AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/news_bytes.php) have both posted similar reports regarding the ongoing PowerBook wait.

MacBidouille claims (http://www.hardmac.com/niouzcontenu.php?date=2003-09-03#439) that due to Motorola's inability to produce PPC7457's in large volumes, PowerBooks will be delayed until mid-October. While AppleInsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/news_bytes.php), also citing reliable sources, confirms that low processor supplies are the cause of the delays, but provides no time-frame for delivery.

Meanwhile, both sites suggest that G5-based PowerBooks may be deliverable in early 2004.

Motorola's Power PC 7457 (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/07/20030725182145.shtml) is the rumored chip that is to be used in the delayed revision of PowerBooks.

[BWhaler]

Motorola can't be this incompetent, particularly given how desperate they are for revenue.

Clearly something else is going on here with Motorola. I think this will push up the G5 in PBook line and the remainder of the desktop line, since Apple can't remain at the mercy of Moto's incompetence or at the whim of this strange game they are playing.

[superfoo]

Just how early "early 2004" would be...

[esheep2001]

Aha, the powerbook rumor for the week!

:-)

e.

[t^3]

At the current rate of delays, the next PowerBook revision will have a G5 "in early 2004"! Perhaps Apple should just make a little more of the current models and lower the prices some more until then?

[arn]

Originally posted by superfoo
Just how early "early 2004" would be...

if you read the linked articles, you would know the answer to that.

arn

[LOZ23]

Why don't these rumour sites just admit they know absolutely nothing about the powerbook situation........ Oh, silly me, that would mean reduced traffic and reduced advertising revenue. Please remember that the prime objective for sites like these is to make money, which is before there desire to offer advice to potential customers............ So, expect more rumors

[Dahl]

Originally posted by BWhaler
Motorola can't be this incompetent, particularly given how desperate they are for revenue.
Guess so. ;)

[esheep2001]

My guess is that the G5 has really put Moto's nose out of place and they're dragging their heels on the 7457. With the knowledge that Apple will eventually switch over to the G5 across the board why bother putting on a sweat? And this just says "See you do still need us, don't you?" to Apple.

If my assumption is true (and in a way I hope it isn't) then Moto deserves everything they get in the future, quite frankly I don't see them surviving the next decade as a major player. Dumping Symbian for MS, now that's a sound business decision... NOT!

e.

[avus]

Kodawarisan also added to this never-ending Powerbook rumor by claiming that only the 12-inch and the 17-inch models will be revised and announced at Apple Expo next week - no 15-inch model this time, and this revision will be the last for the G4-based Powerbooks.

I think that this PowerBook update will be a minor one anyway, and the Powerbook G5 may come sooner than expected - before the end of the year, I hope.

[ELYXR]

Doesn't this remind anyone of the original G5 by Moto explanation that was posted here about 6 months ago? I think Moto is getting poor yields of the chip, because their engineers are encouraged to smoke crack in the manufacturing facility. Or maybe it's something else entirely. ;)

[stefman]

This is just great!!:mad:

I hope they are wrong, I really do.

MacBid has been wrong about a couple of things lately (Dual 1.8 G5's anyone? Something released on the 18th or 19th Aug.) that makes me hope that we will see new PB's within the next 2 weeks.

If the PB's are delayed till October, who will buy them with the G% PB around the corner.

I just hope they're wrong!

[tex210]

perhaps we are really waiting for fuel cell technology of some sort... I did read today that other manufacturers have given the go ahead, so some infrastructure must be in place.

[iGav]

All this delay, makes me quite happy in the fact that my 1GHz Tibook really has given me value for money... being at the top of the tree for so long.... heh!!

Personally though, I think we'll get the G5 PowerBooks sooner rather than later, and certainly not to the timeframe that we had to wait for the first G4 PowerBooks.

I think it'd be bonkers to buy a pro level G4 now per'se.

G

[beloit08]

Maybe, back in January when Steve said this would be the "year of the laptop," what he really meant was that we'd be stuck with the same laptop all year.

[CheekyGit]

I'd be willing to wait until Feb 2004 for a G5 PowerBook. My TiPB 667 has been holding up very well so far.

I've resisted from buying a new Powerbook since the 800 and 1Ghz mdoels were released. I'm glad I have waited this long.

[Tiauguinho]

Originally posted by beloit08
Maybe, back in January when Steve said this would be the "year of the laptop," what he really meant was that we'd be stuck with the same laptop all year.


Im starting to think that you are quite right on that one. The current Powerbook line is a shame. Specially the 15''...

I surely hope that Apple can start updating product lines every 3 months. I think that IBM has the power to spit out a improved chip every 3 months. These long update times are trully nasty for all of us.

[andyjamesnelson]

this is just pointless pb speculation, clearing this rumor means nothing, i mean read it.. its sounds so lame, so void of actuall facts. its nothing but a ************ rumors, cleary they have no idea when the ne PB is comming, furthermore they have no idea what its specs will be.

[mvc]

I am struggling to believe this neverending litany of moto incompetence any longer. I suspect Apple is up to something, moto's chips are a non-issue, and I hope its all good.

I see a 1.2ghz G5 15" Powerbook announced for preorders in Paris?

Give me one compelling and verifiable reason why it CAN'T be done. And don't give me the old too hot fable, because the facts say it ain't!

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by beloit08
Maybe, back in January when Steve said this would be the "year of the laptop," what he really meant was that we'd be stuck with the same laptop all year.

Har har har - you are really funny.

Like that sense of humor.

I think the good news is that G5 Powerbook is coming in April 2004. (if the rumor is true)

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by stefman
If the PB's are delayed till October, who will buy them with the G5 PB around the corner.

If you need VirtualPC you need a G4 (for the time being).

Especially on a portable it's nice to have access to a virtual PC when you need it.

[centauratlas]

I was worried that we might get a PB update this week since there had been no rumors about it! :D

Seriously, assuming this is true:
1. Apple needs to ultra-fast-track the PB G5. I liked the "first quarter 2004" comment if they have a shipping PB G4, but they need it even sooner. Imagine having *no* PB available until October or November! Part of Aug/Sept/Oct - nearly one entire quarter without one. Think of the lost revenue! And how long to ship it afterwards? (Hopefully no delay).

2. Regarding the fuel cell speculation, Apple needs to get a shipping PB out and then add fuel cell later.

[CmdrLaForge]

Originally posted by Hugin777
If you need VirtualPC you need a G4 (for the time being).

Especially on a portable it's nice to have access to a virtual PC when you need it.

Well - hopefully in 6 month from now (when the G5 PB arrives) we should have a Virtual PC version for the G5 as well.

So - thats no reason

[pyrotoaster]

Um, don't they know there's a Stevenote coming up?

I don't think Steve would go all the way to Paris for a keynote and not release something interesting (like Powerbooks).

Besides, AppleInsider and MacBidouille aren't exactly the most reliable sources out there, either. Back at WWDC they were the websites insisting there would be no Dual-processor models and no G5 Powerbooks for at least a year.

[buseman]

I guess the only ones happy about this is those who bought a TiBook last November, who can still brag about having the fastest PB :)

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Well - hopefully in 6 month from now (when the G5 PB arrives) we should have a Virtual PC version for the G5 as well.

So - thats no reason

As I understand it the G4 has hardware support for the endianness of PC's. The G5 has to do it all in hardware.

To me that sounds like the G5 edition will be a lot slower ?

[lord_flash]

On the subject of lost revenue, the powerbook is starting to look like it might never come to me. Is it time to get that cheaper, faster Vaio with better battery life and forego OS X and the superdrive?

I think it might be.

On the positive side, Steve may well announce the updates, or even the G5, at Paris. Then we'd know that it was only a 4/5 month wait before someone could actually touch one.

You know, I really wanted to be a switcher. I quite like my eMac (at work), even if it is less than responsive. Now the laptops are expensive, out of date, out of stock and the desktops are mysteriously failing to arrive. It's not looknig good from an outsider's view, is it?

[iGav]

Originally posted by buseman
I guess the only ones happy about this is those who bought a TiBook last November, who can still brag about having the fastest PB :)

Heh-heh, exactly what I was thinking... ;) lets face it, we sure have got value for money out of them this year!! ;) :D

That said, I wish Apple could double their speed every 12 months and then I'd buy every 12 months....

My next upgrade... PowerBook G5!! :D

[AllenPSU]

At the rate that Motorola is going, IBM could cash in on the powerbook marked if Apple and IBM could get a 1.1+ GHz G3 into the iBook before Motorola squares away the problems with the 7457. That would allow Apple to bridge the gap a little until the G5 is ready for the powerbook.

If I remember correctly, the 750GX was sampled this summer and may be out in bulk before Christmas.

[crenz]

Well, I'm really glad that I went ahead and ordered a 12" PB. My only regret is that I didn't do it a month earlier! :)

[Stella]

If Apple could get the G5 PowerBooks out by February, is there really any point in bringing out new Powerbooks in October? Can't Apple just keep producing the current line of PB at a cheaper price?

God knows what Motorollas performance will be in the future, will they even by able to deliver by October?

Apple should cut all ties and slap Motorolla with a big lawsuit!

[tribalogical]

weren't we all expecting the G5 no sooner than the end of the year, when *SURPRISE* they were announced in June?

Perhaps there's another trick up Steve's sleeve....

Bet we don't see any "previews" on the Apple site this time...!

Maybe they've been waiting so Steve has something to crow about at the Paris Expo... after all, this is also the year of boosting market share/presence in Europe....

I expect to see PB and other updates announced at the show, along with a possible ship date for Panther, and *maybe*, just a small chance of a PB G5 announcement.....

speaking of crow, let's see how much of it I eat come the expo in Paris..... :)

tribalogical

[Samir 3.0]

An unconfirmed report claims that company has been toying with prototype PowerBook G5 enclosures sporting a technique (and appearance) similar to the Power Mac G5's honey-comb ventilation system.

[mkaake]

Originally posted by lord_flash
On the subject of lost revenue, the powerbook is starting to look like it might never come to me. Is it time to get that cheaper, faster Vaio with better battery life and forego OS X and the superdrive?

I think it might be.

On the positive side, Steve may well announce the updates, or even the G5, at Paris. Then we'd know that it was only a 4/5 month wait before someone could actually touch one.

You know, I really wanted to be a switcher. I quite like my eMac (at work), even if it is less than responsive. Now the laptops are expensive, out of date, out of stock and the desktops are mysteriously failing to arrive. It's not looknig good from an outsider's view, is it?


good golly noooo!!!

i love macs and all, but if you feel like you have to buy a winbook, for the love of pete, don't buy a viao!! i've never met a single person who's viao laptop has met their expectations - they always have more problems with them than just about anything else...

*sorry* had to get that off my chest.

what doesn't make sense to me is that they're speculating a speed bump and major revison (per the 10000 rumors floating around) for the 15, but then just 3 months later revising it again to sport the g5? doesn't make any sense to do that.

noperz. if theyre going to update it anytime soon (as in paris), if it doesn't sport the g5, you can bet safely it'll prolly be 6 months before it finds its way into a laptop.

matt

[Ambrose Chapel]

Originally posted by Stella
Apple should cut all ties and slap Motorolla with a big lawsuit!

yeah i wouldn't be surprised if something like this happens, once Apple doesn't need to rely on them for any chips. any business-law types here? is this something that Apple could do successfully?

[dernhelm]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Aha, the powerbook rumor for the week!


Certainly you mean of the hour - maximally of the day. We get way more than one per week!

:-)

Mid Oct? Sheesh! But hey, at least it's good drama material for ATAT.

[rickag]

What's really kind of sad is, that when the alleged MPC7457 does arrive, it will be at least 2 year old technology.:(

[moby1]

Originally posted by beloit08
Maybe, back in January when Steve said this would be the "year of the laptop," what he really meant was that we'd be stuck with the same laptop all year.


LOL :p (sigh)...

[bikertwin]

Hmmmm... if this rumor is true (G4s), and the 15.2-inch rumor is true (i.e., same resolution), then this is an update not worth waiting for.

We need at least one of the two, and actually the higher resolution is more important than G4 vs. G5.

Here's hoping for a higher-resolution 15.2.

[GrannySmith_G5]

oh god not again. I wish there was a page 3 rumor page for these powerbook updates that you had to go through 14 obscure site pages just to access.

[WackyM]

With all this delay, I am glad that I got the 1GHz TiBook back in November. It has since then definitely been worth the value plus more with the work I've been able to do with it. And its the only pbook with an ATI chipset. Score! :D

[Lord Bodak]

That's it for me. Payday is the 10th, so I'll give them til the 16th and order whichever 12" is available after the keynote.

[chazmox]

I can't see the October ship date for new PB's ( wait... with all these PB surprises I can imagine almost anything ) and Apple leaving the stock situation where it is. I can only imagine that there is problems ramping up volume and this is one prodcut that Apple wants to ship immediately on announcement. There is some number X that need to be ready to go and release will happen when that number is reached.

If Apple is going to wait that long ( mid-Oct. ) then I would expect stock at distributors and retailers to jump some as Apple produces some more of the current 15 to close the gap.

But how much of this stock situation is self imposed by the retailers in anticipation of an update - do they just not want to get stuck with the old model?

BTW: was in the Apple Store yesterday and was told that they had 15 inch PB's in stock. The guy says that they'll go out but almost every week they get 10-20 in. Looks like they are still being made. He said wait for Paris Expo...

[DakotaGuy]

Well first off I think a lot of people forget a long time ago Motorola stated the 7457 would not be available until the 4th quarter of this year. The 4th quarter just started a couple of days ago. I know everyone hates Moto with a passion and would rather have an Intel Inside sticker on a Powerbook saying Celeron then have another G4 inside, but give them a chance. The 7457 Looks like a good processor and if they have a decent clock speed and improved bus speed with L3 cache they might be giving at least the 1.6 G5 a real run for its money. I agree the Powerbook needs to go to the G5 and it will happen, but not this fall. Probably next year sometime.

Look at the positive. If it is taking this long you are going to get more then a Mhz bump. Either a G5, not likely but possible or a very improved G4.

[chazmox]

uhhhh... 4th quarter ( depending on when your fiscal year starts ) starts next month... Oct, Nov, Dec...

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by mkaake
good golly noooo!! i've never met a single person who's viao laptop has met their expectations -

Except me - my last (and current) notebook is a Vaio and I love it. Despite being over 3 years old now, it has firewire built in weighs virtually nothing, is just an inch thick and little bigger than it's 12" screen. Plus it looks better than almost everything else on the market today. (yes, sad I know, but that matters).

I thought it'd be nice to 'grow up' to a 15" PowerBook - longer battery life, elegantly tucked in superdrive and OS X being it's obvious advantages. But they are ludicrously expensive.

Vaios come in 2 broad chunks - expensive and pretty, or the boring chunky ones. If I was buying, it'd be the expensive sort. These now include Bluetooth, WiFi and the like. And they're actually sat there in the shop.

Now if the Apple was a little cheaper (given it's age) that'd be another story. That's my complaint. If you can't deliver a replacement, at least acknowledge that time is passing and knock a few hundred dollars off the price.

[manu chao]

Moral, political and philosophical issues aside, how can one seriously base one's decision whether to buy a PC or Apple laptop on the availability of a 1.3 Ghz vs. a 1 Ghz Powerbook. Or on things like Firewire 800, Airport Extreme and illuminated keyboards, all things that are not available on the PC side (except via PC-cards, but therefore by extension also for the current 15'') and o.k. there are also build-in bluetooth and the better Airport reception but these are really details.

I have a 1Ghz Powerbook, and although on the hardware side there are a few things that look more attractive on the PC side (battery life and, by a margin, also the weight of centrinos, build-in bluetooth, higher screen resolution), the design and robustness of Powerbooks would still tilt the balance towards Apple.

And switching from Mac to PC (or Pc to Mac) would cost me in software alone more than the most expensive Powerbook.

But surely, if Mac means 1 Ghz instead of 1.3 Mhz right now, one should get a PC laptop.

[centauratlas]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
The 4th quarter just started a couple of days ago.

Just FYI, the 4th qtr of the year doesn't start until October 1st. Oct-Nov-Dec is 1/4 of the year.

[iPC]

Originally posted by centauratlas
Just FYI, the 4th qtr of the year doesn't start until October 1st. Oct-Nov-Dec is 1/4 of the year.
Fiscal year in the USA is generally accepted as:

1 October—30 September

4th quarter is just about over. Coincides with peoples notions that this "update" is 2-3 months late already. If that is true, March 2004 update to the G5 would have been on track for a 6 month differential (pattern Apple seems to follow lately).

IMHO, YMMV, of course. ;)

[big]

Powerbook Rumor for next week....

*With out a word, Apple discontinues their Powerbook line, stating that they just could not come out with a better design, then continues with "If you wanna laptop, buy an iBook"*

[lord_flash]

Personally I want a decent screen, Bluetooth, 54bit WiFi, Ethernet, Modem, and a workably fast computer.

I'd like it to be a Mac, as these are among the few machines that combine these without the need for PCMCIA cards or the like. Plus OS X is just better, and I hold a residual dislike of Billy Gates.

What I'm say is that for ages these haven't been successfully combined into a PC - even if they're all put in it manages to be ugly, weighty or have poor battery life. I don't think that's true anymore.

That makes speed important. OS X can be slow on my eMac, but it has only 384Mb RAM. And as we all know, MHz doesn't mean everything. But I'd like to know what it does mean. According to Apple's specint_2000 test a 2GHz G5 is a little slower than a 3GHz P4 (or a little faster for some other tasks). Is that a good rule of thumb? Does it apply to 1.7GHz centrino?

[mactastic]

Originally posted by buseman
I guess the only ones happy about this is those who bought a TiBook last November, who can still brag about having the fastest PB :)

Damn straight! My 1Ghz TiBook is fan-freakin-tastic. The longer this goes on, the happier I am that I bought mine when I did. I was a little upset after the 12" and 17" models came out 2 months after I bought mine, but I didn't want either of those sizes, so it all worked out!

That being said, my wife wants a 12" laptop, and I would like to get her a rev2 12"PB. However, I only will do that if apple fixes the major complaints people have ie. excess heat on the left palmrest, a second RAM slot so it can hold 1Gig (without paying $500 for a RAM chip), and a DVI out. PCMCIA card slot would be nice, but I can't see how they could fit it in if the rumors are true that apple is trying to slim the 12" down so it matches the 1" thickness of the 15" and 17". Fingers crossed that it happens soon, she can't really wait past mid-October for one.

[mainstreetmark]

Man.. with all this bad powerbook news (and the fact that my Dell 8100 reboots for me every day!) it's a wonder why I get up in the morning.

At least Wall Street hasn't heard about this, as AAPL stock is currently at a 52 week high, and climbing ($22.90)

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by iPC
Fiscal year in the USA is generally accepted as:

1 October—30 September


The US govt fiscal year is Oct to Sept. California's fiscal year is July to June.

http://www.bartleby.com/151/a93.html shows a table of governmental fiscal years.

Many companies have other fiscal years. Some are calendar years (my company is), and July to June is very common. There's no "generally accepted" fiscal year....

http://www.arl.org/sparc/GI/sectionB/B_5_11.html

"The most common fiscal year period is one of these four:

-- FY ending December 31, annual period January 1 - December 31, quarterly periods January-March, April-June, July-September, October-December.
-- FY ending March 31, annual period April 1 - March 31, quarterly periods April-June, July-September, October-December, January-March.
-- FY ending June 30, annual period July 1 - June 30, quarterly periods July-September, October-December, January-March, April-June.
-- FY ending September 30, annual period October 1 - December 31, quarterly periods October-December, January-March, April-June, July-September."

[airmac]

Originally posted by crenz
Well, I'm really glad that I went ahead and ordered a 12" PB. My only regret is that I didn't do it a month earlier! :)

You are absolutely right. I remember waiting a whole year for dual mdd and boy what a mistake that was. I was so pissed that i bought one..:)

If you need one you'll buy one, period. If you are just sitting and waiting fot the next big thing like me, than "eventually" it will happen. But i'm not in a hurry, I'll buy 15 inch with panther preinstalled.

...btw enjoy your powerbook.

[ewinemiller]

Originally posted by lord_flash
Except me - my last (and current) notebook is a Vaio and I love it. Despite being over 3 years old now, it has firewire built in weighs virtually nothing, is just an inch thick and little bigger than it's 12" screen. Plus it looks better than almost everything else on the market today. (yes, sad I know, but that matters).

I have to agree, my father has one of those 10.5 inch Vaios from a few years back. It's awesome, weighs about as much as a thick paperback, wafer thin, relatively fast, battery lasts forever, fits in a purse, glovebox of your car, or small bag without a problem. I wouldn't use it to type a thesis, but it's a great traveling notebook. I wish Apple sold something in that segment.

[ewinemiller]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
Man.. with all this bad powerbook news (and the fact that my Dell 8100 reboots for me every day!) it's a wonder why I get up in the morning.

At least Wall Street hasn't heard about this, as AAPL stock is currently at a 52 week high, and climbing ($22.90)

Had the same problem with my 8100 (assume your talking about the inspiron since this is a laptop thread), the key was never install the Dell branded video drivers. Apparently they got those interns from the commercials working on those, they are trash. For XP, the video drivers that show up on windows update work great. I only reboot my 8100 about once a month if there is anything in windows update that requires it.

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by iGAV
Heh-heh, exactly what I was thinking... ;) lets face it, we sure have got value for money out of them this year!! ;) :D

That said, I wish Apple could double their speed every 12 months and then I'd buy every 12 months....

My next upgrade... PowerBook G5!! :D

Wow, you hit the nail on the head.. I bought the first 17" I ever saw and 5months later I'm still sitting pretty...

It'd have to be more than a 1.6GHz g5 for me to spend any amount fo money anytime soon though... A 2GHz is where my head will start to turn...

[Bruja]

Originally posted by Hugin777
If you need VirtualPC you need a G4 (for the time being).

Especially on a portable it's nice to have access to a virtual PC when you need it. I don't suppose that we could have a virtual Al Pbk. for the current line, could we?? :rolleyes:

[pkradd]

At last years MacWorld Paris Steve did the keynote (as he had the previous year as well) and there were no major new product announcements. Also, the keynote was not webcast live, only available later via Quicktime. It is not scheduled at this time to be live either.
PB's will have modest updates later this month. A completely new line using the G5 will not happen yet because the chips are not in production (except for some early pilot runs). The current IBM chip cannot be used for a portable. It runs too hot and uses up too much battery life. Have you people noticed that the new G5 has lots of fans and heat sinks for the processor? Why are some people unable to face reality. Anyway, most that are complaining will not get the money from their parents to buy a new Powerbook anyway.

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by lord_flash
Does it apply to 1.7GHz centrino?

Ignoring the questions about Apple's benchmarking claims ;), at the Centrino announcement Intel said that the performance of the 1.6 GHz Pentium M (Centrino) was roughly equal to the 2.4 GHz Pentium 4.

The Pentium M has a large L2 cache (1 MiB), and a couple of other tweaks that give it better performance per GHz.

[Chupa Chupa]

These PB rumor posts are almost comical.

Let's see here. The new PBs have been sitting in a warehouse ready to ship since early Aug, but Apple hasn't announced anything because Moto is slow on delivering the G4 chips need to make them work. This despite the fact that the new PBs will have the G5 chip in them even though technically speaking the G5 is way too hot for a PB enclosure at this point, and that Apple officials have stated that there will be no G5 PBs soon.

So there you go. A nice little summary of the PB rumors of the past weeks. I think all the numbers are covered so someone has to be right. Right?

[NoPrideELF]

If any of this is true, someone help me, please. I've waited almost a year for updates to the 15" so I could get one. Now i'm in college, I have nothing but this old-as-sin desktop wintel piece o' crap. If after all this time, crappy speed bumps (which would've been fine 4 months ago) is all we get, it just doesn't seem worth getting one. Then again, if I wait for a G5, I could do the same thing I've been doing this whole time. At that rate I would never get a powerbook because I'd just be perpetuously waiting for the next amazing, pant-crapper revision or update. Any suggestions?

[big]

what about that rumor about very very fast G3's? maybe apple will put 2ghz G3's in them, that's another rumor we should throw in, or maybe they are just discontinued....

either way, glad I got my 15" G4 last month

[DrBoar]

At least the G4 delivery from Motorola is consistent;)
Back in the days of the 40 Mhz 68030 in the IIfx more than 10 years ago Motorola was acually making a leading edge desktop CPU, but that was the last time...

1.68040 did not keep up with the 486 and the 68050 and 68060 was so late Appple had to migrate to PPC

2. Motorola had problem manufacturing fast 604 and got helped out by IBM

3. Motorola had problem manufacturing fast G3 and got helped out by IBM

4.Motorola had and have still 4 years later problem manufacturing fast G4 and get no help from IBM.

So here we are delayed G5 towers, no G4s to speed bump the PB, no blade servers from either IBM or Apple using the G5 AKA IBM970:mad:

Well at least Apple can use the 7455B to speed bump the iMac to 1.4 GHz so they have something more to show this year:)

[Phinius]

A Motorola press release clearly stated that the 7457 chips would be available in the fourth quarter of 2003. The fourth quarter starts in October, not July or August. Although Apple could announce updated notebooks this month and have them available in October when the 7457 chips are in full production.

Motorola's cutbacks in the last two years seems to have caused major delays in producing .13-um chips. Becoming profitable was the priority over losing money trying to keep up with Intel's pace of development.

Also, Apple likes to spread out the announcements of new products by at least two months. So that would mean at least a two month span of time between when the G5 Power Macs were introduced and the next product announcement.

[Squire]

Sorry. This is a long one.

Originally posted by LOZ23
Why don't these rumour sites just admit they know absolutely nothing about the powerbook situation........ Oh, silly me, that would mean reduced traffic and reduced advertising revenue. Please remember that the prime objective for sites like these is to make money, which is before there desire to offer advice to potential customers............ So, expect more rumors

There's a guy named Arn here. Send him a message asking how much profit he's made since the site started. If you're looking for a quick buck, he would probably advise against going into the Mac rumors/forum business. Besides, the article touched on the very fact you mentioned: PB delays because of Moto, arrival time unknown.

Originally posted by esheep2001
My guess is that the G5 has really put Moto's nose out of place and they're dragging their heels on the 7457. With the knowledge that Apple will eventually switch over to the G5 across the board why bother putting on a sweat? And this just says "See you do still need us, don't you?" to Apple.

I don't think Motorola's shareholders would approve of that approach. And there's no reason that Apple couldn't throw a G4 into the iBooks. No, I believe this screw-up is completely unintentional.

Originally posted by andyjamesnelson
this is just pointless pb speculation, clearing this rumor means nothing, i mean read it.. its sounds so lame, so void of actuall facts. its nothing but a ************ rumors, cleary they have no idea when the ne PB is comming, furthermore they have no idea what its specs will be.

ru¡¤mor €€ n.
A piece of unverified information of uncertain origin usually spread by word of mouth.

Unverified information received from another; hearsay.

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Um, don't they know there's a Stevenote coming up?

I don't think Steve would go all the way to Paris for a keynote and not release something interesting (like Powerbooks).

I recall reading somewhere that Steve gave the last Paris Keynote and that no significant products were launched. But I hope you're right. (Note: pkradd mentioned this as well.)

Originally posted by Stella
Apple should cut all ties and slap Motorolla with a big lawsuit!

There was news that they were going to do (or had already started the process of doing) exactly that. How would their case look? Anyone in corporate law? Moto would probably have some sort of clause in their contract that protected them against this sort of thing, wouldn't they?

Originally posted by ewinemiller
I have to agree, my father has one of those 10.5 inch Vaios from a few years back. It's awesome, weighs about as much as a thick paperback, wafer thin, relatively fast, battery lasts forever, fits in a purse, glovebox of your car, or small bag without a problem. I wouldn't use it to type a thesis, but it's a great traveling notebook. I wish Apple sold something in that segment.

Yeah, that would be cool. (Is that the Vaio with the built-in camera on the monitor?)

How's this? G5 in PowerBooks, new G4 in iBooks, new G3 in mini iBooks. I don't know why they don't get into that market. Why let Sony and Fujitsu take all the profits?

Squire

[killmoms]

I was talking to an Apple Distinguished Educator at my college (real high-up guy in video/TV production) about PowerBook updates, since I've been waiting for them to buy one. He looked at me knowingly and said something about September 18th, winked, and walked off. Could he be yanking my chain? You bet, but he does have connections at Apple and is a big proponant of their stuff. Who knows. Just adding more fuel to the fire I guess.

--Cless

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by DrBoar
4.Motorola had and have still 4 years later problem manufacturing fast G4 and get no help from IBM. They were getting help from AMD, until the relationship turned so bad they decided to part ways (in the future) -- then it got worse and they parted even quicker.

Now AMD is working with IBM, poor Motorola.

[cubist]

PB G5's in "early 2004"...

Given the rather loose interpretations of these things, and the way things are going, I'd guess that means that they will be announced at WWDC 2004, and actually delivered into people's hands in November 2004.

By that time, PowerMacs will be running dual 2.2GHz!

Oh, and that "3GHz within a year": It'll be within some year, that's for sure.:D

[tpjunkie]

At this point I'm just gonna say "whatever" to the powerbook updates. I HAD to get my 667 DVI when I did, before college started, and the november updates pained me. Now I'm just a broke college student, and I don't see myself upgrading until at the absolute earliest next year somtime (and thats assuming I somehow come into money). For those still holding out, just becomforted by thinking about the bragging rights you'll surely have when they do update the line.

[eric67]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Um, don't they know there's a Stevenote coming up?

I don't think Steve would go all the way to Paris for a keynote and not release something interesting (like Powerbooks).

Besides, AppleInsider and MacBidouille aren't exactly the most reliable sources out there, either. Back at WWDC they were the websites insisting there would be no Dual-processor models and no G5 Powerbooks for at least a year.

i agree regarding Steve Job venue in Paris Apple Expo, he will not come for nothing to present to the audience; but in other words those things are planned way in advance, so you never know, something went really wrong regarding the original Apple rodmap.

besides, i do not think that macbidouille.com is not a reliable info source; I mean, they never claimed no dual G5.... and in addition they said that there will be no PB G5 before 2004, that was in May 2003, so where is the point??? they say now Feb 2004; if it is true then they are pretty good.... so let see in January 2004 Apple announcement; and I hope to see you back there to apologize regarding this wrong information you are trying to spread.

Let see, from now it is about 10 days before the keynote

[jxyama]

ouch. :(

[pilotgi]

I'm continuing to think positive and attribute the delay to working out the details of a G5 PB.
A Motorola press release clearly stated that the 7457 chips would be available in the fourth quarter of 2003. The fourth quarter starts in October, not July or August.
Yes! Why do so many keep forgetting this fact?

And why do so many people keep saying the G5 is too hot for a notebook? There are no facts to support this!

The _fact_ is that a lower clocked G5 is _not_ too hot to put in a laptop.

[mustang_dvs]

Originally posted by mvc
I am struggling to believe this neverending litany of moto incompetence any longer.

I'd like to introduce you to the Motorola microelectronics division, which used to dominate the industry and, yet these days, has been subjected to major brain-drain, budgetary cuts and layoffs and now trails AMD, Intel and IBM in innovation.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by pilotgi
The _fact_ is that a lower clocked G5 is _not_ too hot to put in a laptop. [/B]

If this is indeed a "_fact_", please post the documentation!

Otherwise I'll believe the _indications_ which are that the G5 along with it's memory subsystem and chipset are too hot for a notebook.

Perhaps better stated: indications are that modifying the existing G5 technology to fit a notebook will produce a product no better than a G4 based system.

So, of course, if there are no G4's for a notebook this might be the only course of action and people who are more interested in a processor label than a quality product will be thrilled...

Personally, I'd prefer an improved G4 first and a G5 when it's ready.

[ColoJohnBoy]

Originally posted by LOZ23
Why don't these rumour sites just admit they know absolutely nothing about the powerbook situation........ Oh, silly me, that would mean reduced traffic and reduced advertising revenue. Please remember that the prime objective for sites like these is to make money, which is before there desire to offer advice to potential customers............ So, expect more rumors

My my, aren't you the cynical one? If the purpose of websites like these is to make money, then in my case at least, they are failing spectacularly. I've never clicked on an ad link from any of these sites once. And my perception has been that the purpose of MacRumors at least is not to make money, nor does it seem to be for any of the others. It seems the primary objective of all such sites (Except MacWhispers) is to provide information and an opportunity to discuss goings-on in the Mac community.

[joeyjojoe]

accept what you want to. there are people inside apple testing g5 powerbooks. i don't know if its for the upcoming revision, or two years down the line. i would imagine that g5 powerbooks do arrive this year (but that is only speculation on my part). i can say that heat is/was not as big of an issue as people keep saying. also, apple has had a long time to work with the g5, so its not like they just started trying to get it in a laptop after they announced the desktop.

again, accept what you want. please don't flame me for telling what i know.

[filmmaker2002]

Originally posted by pkradd
The current IBM chip cannot be used for a portable. It runs too hot and uses up too much battery life. Have you people noticed that the new G5 has lots of fans and heat sinks for the processor? Why are some people unable to face reality.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. You couldn't BE more wrong. REALITY is that current IBM 970 chips CAN be used in a notebook. At 1.2 Ghz, the PowerPC 970 dissipates LESS heat and uses LESS power than G4s running at the same speed. Go to IBM and look at the reality. The fans are for cooling the superfast RAM, SerialATA Hard drives, Superdrive, and system controller chip, not JUST the G5s. That and Apple's strategy was to use 8 or 9 QUIET fans than one or two LOUD ones. Use some common sense.

This doesn't necessarily mean we will have PBG5s soon, but they are entirely possible with current processors. That and the facts have been stated
a hundred times.

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by arn
if you read the linked articles, you would know the answer to that.
But Arn, you do know that any good web site discourages users from venturing off their web site. ;)

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by beloit08
Maybe, back in January when Steve said this would be the "year of the laptop," what he really meant was that we'd be stuck with the same laptop all year. hahaha That was funny.

[JoeRadar]

Originally posted by pkradd
The current IBM chip cannot be used for a portable. It runs too hot and uses up too much battery life.
I have heard that often, and I have seen the large heat sinks on the G5s, but I have one observation that I was wondering if anyone else has made:

At a local Apple store I kept one hand at the back of a G5 and another hand at the back of a G4, and it sure feels like the G5 runs cooler than the G4.

Probably just a tactile illusion, but I found it interesting. I wonder if all those fans and giant heat sinks are more for keeping the machines quiet (which they were) than just cooling the system. :)

[macphoria]

What the heck Motorola?! More delay?

As far as I'm concerned, G4 15" Aluminium PowerBook at this point is useless, if G5 PowerBook is indeed coming early next year.

Man, Motorola stinks.

[mainstreetmark]

How come this rumor has 14 positive ratings? Are 14 people out there Happy about this, or do they just vote the opposite of everyone else.

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by manu chao
the design and robustness of Powerbooks would still tilt the balance towards Apple. I think my biggest tilt, is the fact that I've spent thousands of dollars on OS X software and don't want to buy it all for a pc. Photoshop, Illustrator, GoLive, LiveMotion, Dreamweaver, Flash, Premier. Plus I wouldn't give up the ease of the iLife apps for a pc...

Another tilt is that I haven't had a virus or any major problems with my Mac. Not that I'd be foolish enough to open an email from someone I didn't know or look at the extension of the email... but hey it could be fun.

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
How come this rumor has 14 positive ratings? Are 14 people out there Happy about this, or do they just vote the opposite of everyone else.

Probably windows trolls and zealous owners of the current powerbooks.

[neilw]

Probably just a tactile illusion, but I found it interesting. I wonder if all those fans and giant heat sinks are more for keeping the machines quiet (which they were) than just cooling the system.

Yes, as has been stated a few times here and elsewhere. Unfortunately, some (not you) continue to keep repeating the incorrect perception that the mass of cooling design that went into the G5 is because the chips are little mini-nuclear reactors. It's basically an over-engineered design to make the system quiet. I'm not sure I can remember a high-powered system in recent years that was as quiet as the G5's seem to be. That's impressive, though it undoubtedly contributes a bit to the high cost and large size of the machines.

Remember also that the current G5 would go into a laptop at a lower clock rate and lower voltage than the PowerMacs, just as the G4's in existing PowerBooks run slower than those in the last PowerMac G4's.

Finally, to those who insist on repeating the fiction of how hot the G5 is: how does the cooling system look on a G4 DP1.42? Big heatsinks, loud fans. Does that mean the G4 can't go into a laptop?

I'm not saying the G5 PowerBooks are imminent, but it's not impossible. Certainly, the 90 nm 970 will be a *better* laptop processor than the current one, and it's likely that if they do come out in the near term with a 130 nm G5 in a PowerBook, that'll leave room open for a nice speed bump and/or battery life improvement when they move to the 90 nm parts.

With all that said, I do not know how laptop-ready the various support components in the G5 are. The lack of L3 cache in a G5 system should help a little, though.

Sorry for the long rant, it just drives me crazy hearing the "G5 too hot for a laptop because of 9 fans in the PowerMac" thing over and over.

[Abstract]

Rumours mean nothing just before a keynote. Its coming up so soon that to read rumours and get overexcited over rumours is stupid.

And I feel your pain, guys. I want an iBook, and am waiting for the PB's get on the move first to allow the iBooks to get into the GHz zone.

Why can't IBM just make 1.2GHz G5s for us and end this madness?

[centauratlas]

Originally posted by iPC
Fiscal year in the USA is generally accepted as:
1 October—30 September


That was why I *purposely* only said "year" and not "fiscal year". The original poster said the 4th quarter was only a few days old.

Without any qualifier, the 4th quarter (in Wall Street and other terms) begins Oct 1. Not Sept 1.

[jamesatzones]

The channel has been dry for sometime now, so many clients are getting upset because of the lack of the 15" and the 12". The 17" which are widely available don't fit everyone's needs nor budget. This is a nitemare, how long have we been waiting now? Bring on the new machines, we need them bad!:(

[centauratlas]

Originally posted by pkradd
It runs too hot and uses up too much battery life. Have you people noticed that the new G5 has lots of fans and heat sinks for the processor? Why are some people unable to face reality.

This has been discussed ad nauseam and no one has provided any concrete evidence to back this up. On the contrary, the evidence shows that a G5 running at the same speed will use approximately the same power as a G4. Likewise overall, it will use *less* power because it is missing some of the cache that the G4 uses. As far as the fans go, they run *low* speed, meaning low noise, meaning they need more of them to cool a dual 2Ghz machine.

What is with the "unable to face reality" comment? No one making the claim that the G5 is too hot has provided evidence of this. Instead I see baseless claims like this while refusing to point to any documentation showing something else. Last week and the week before several of us provided many links detailing the information above, by the way.

If you know of some, please tell us.

[centauratlas]

According to the 2002 annual report, and the 2003 2nd quarter report Motorola's fiscal year is the same as the calendar year. (see motorola.com)

Thus both the fiscal year and calendar year are the same and begin October 1.

Perhaps that can resolve it? ;-)

[ColoJohnBoy]

Originally posted by Phinius
A Motorola press release clearly stated that the 7457 chips would be available in the fourth quarter of 2003. The fourth quarter starts in October, not July or August.

As amtter of fact, if you search the posts, you'll find that Motorola revised that announcement to say that the 7457's would be availabel in Q3 of 2003, meaning the end of September at the latest.

Motorola just seems to be a monument of incompetence when it comes to processor production. Perhaps they should just stick to cell phones and the like.

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by ColoJohnBoy
Motorola just seems to be a monument of incompetence when it comes to processor production. Perhaps they should just stick to cell phones and the like.

Their cell-phones aren't too great either... in fact, I'd say they're on par for this debacle..

[macphoria]

This has been discussed ad nauseam and no one has provided any concrete evidence to back this up. On the contrary, the evidence shows that a G5 running at the same speed will use approximately the same power as a G4. Likewise overall, it will use *less* power because it is missing some of the cache that the G4 uses. As far as the fans go, they run *low* speed, meaning low noise, meaning they need more of them to cool a dual 2Ghz machine.

What is with the "unable to face reality" comment? No one making the claim that the G5 is too hot has provided evidence of this. Instead I see baseless claims like this while refusing to point to any documentation showing something else. Last week and the week before several of us provided many links detailing the information above, by the way.

If you know of some, please tell us.
I agree.

I think people see giant heat sinks and fans on G5 and deduce that it runs hot, which is not unreasonable guess.

But I believe number of fans has to do with cooling "zones" that Apple set up. And size of heat sinks has to do with taking burden off fans in order to reduce fan noise which was big complaint in last G4 Power Macs.

[chazmox]

Please check out these pages.

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/A1387A29AC1C2AE087256C5200611780

http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/7874C7DA8607C0B287256BF3006FBE54

If you bother to look they detail that at 1.2GHz the 970 consumes about 19 Watts. The older document ( pre-production ) shows 1.8 GHz@42Watts and 1.2@19Watts. The newer document only lists the 1.8GHz chip @ 47Watts. Assume that productions numbers scaled comparably for 1.2Ghz and you get a number of around 22Watts (est.)

And CentaurAtlas is right - this info has been posted numerous times!

I suspect that there are several reasons for the cooling system design ( or over-design ).

1.) Quietness - a common complaint for the PM G4.
2.) Realibility of the processors and other high spec components.
3.) Long life of the current chassis design. I think that this is important to consider as the chassis looks design to not only handle today's architecture but more powerful, potentially hotter architectures in the future.

That said, I do have concerns with the G5 in a laptop. For one, the system controller chip is susposedly a major heat source. Apple probably has a laptop version in the works but was the design concurrent? Who knows...

Also, the dual RAM banks would seem to take up quite a bit of room in a laptop.

I doubt that a G5 will be ready by Paris - one of the reason I doubt this is related to the supply. It is highly doubtful that such a computer would be available for immediate shipping. Current stock levels point to a upcoming revision to ship immediately.

[excalibur313]

The thing that a lot of people are failing to grasp is that even if a model came out a day after you bought yours, that wouldn't change how good yours is. I can see why someone may be mad if they bought something and then a week later a new model came out but as far as months it shouldn't matter. The pc market spits out new computers on a continuous basis and yet some of you would freak out if a better mac was released a few months later. Thats technology and although its getting easier to predict from 10 years ago there will always be new models out and it' something that one has to deal with. Just remember that it doesn't affect your model at all except prevents you from toting that you have the latest and greatest.
-Steve

[Peej]

I had a dream last night that the 15" powerbooks were finally realeased with intel-based architecture.

MAKE IT STOP!!!!!
MAKE IT STOP!!!!!


peej
:(

[wakedog]

as a pc user and a mac-switcher-wannabe all I can say is for anyone in my shoes (want/need new laptop), hold out. we've all waited this long, we can wait a little longer.

at this point, it can't be too much further down the road (as everyone else is saying) befor the G5 powerbooks come out. if moto was doing an excellent job of supplying cpus to apple, we would have g4 PBs now and they would have the contract for the next big apple processor.

that's not the case, and ibm now has apple's attention so it's pretty clear that apple will switch over ASAP to the G5 line in all their comps, probably by the end of '04.

even if the new PBs have a speed bump moto cpu, look for apple to use them as temporarily as possible to hold off the market craze until the G5 PBs can be released.

here's a thought, maybe apple will release the g4 PB upgrades as the new iBooks and announce the new G5 PBs as being released in Jan/Feb.

until then, I'm pc building and crossing my fingers for a (more) timely release of the G5 PBs

[Mineral]

I'm about to sell my 17" iMac and buy a 12" powerbook.. so I should wait until Paris Expo???

I just want a fast notebook with a combo drive for less than $1600 (current 12"ers are at that price point.. but I'm hoping the 12" will get a speed bump, but no price bump..).

[centauratlas]

This is what I wrote a few weeks ago. If anyone has more or alternates, please feel free to chime in.
-------------
Here is my quick overview (from that other discussion) so it is easy to find. I don't think it will happen (I'd love it to), but from my reading, the problem is not that the G5 runs to hot, doesn't have any power management etc. It is time to put that rumor to rest unless it can be backed up with facts:

Summary: the 970 has got doze/nap/sleep mode, which were on previous PowerPCs. It can turn off some parts of the processor when things are quiet--under OS control. For thermal management, it has a diode on chip for monitoring temperature with leads that go off chip allowing external control.

I keep seeing things like "The G5 needs 8 [or 9] fans to keep it cool." But the point of the 8 fans was to use more at a lower speeds to decrease the sound, not because 1 fan couldn't handle it. Plus the clock-rates involved are high. Likewise, as was quoted here again, since the G5 doesn't need a L3 cache, the power usage could be *less* than for a PB G4 at, say, 1.2Ghz.

Although I'd *love* to see it happen soon, but am skeptical that it will. I think the things like the "needs 8 fans" become conventional wisdom without facts to back them up.


(G5:
http://www-3.ibm.com/chips/techlib/...7256C5200611780

7457:
http://e-www.motorola.com/files/32b...t/MPC7457EC.pdf

G5 power management:
http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/03q2...nterview-2.html
)

[Bruja]

Originally posted by Peej
I had a dream last night that the 15" powerbooks were finally realeased with intel-based architecture.

MAKE IT STOP!!!!!
MAKE IT STOP!!!!!


peej
:( Were it availible, would you buy it??

[mrdeep]

Originally posted by Bruja
Were it availible, would you buy it??

I would! And I'd say its "x86 based", not "intel based", just to make myself feel better.

[Loopy]

What happens to the G5 chips that are lower grade than 1.6 gh but run at 1.0/1.2 ok ...... put them in the G5 PB

Is their a high or low % of these chips

Do you think apple would design a powerbook G5 at the same time as a G5 DT .......... I think so.

Have they had time to get these ready for Paris.:) :)

[ozlow]

Here's my two cents.

If the iBook team truely came up with the 12" PowerBook. One can only think that Apple has been working on putting a g4 into the iBook.

Which would mean that a g5 PowerBook, must be in the works and ready for release. You can't release a g5 PowerBook, when all the g5 tower orders haven't been filled yet.

Push the PowerBook g5 back, (even though it's more than likely ready) until every one who ordered a g5 tower gets them.

Makes perfect since to me, Apple.

if for some reason the upgrade is minor, there's going to be many sad faces and I'll be one of them.

[SiliconAddict]

Apple should release a new first person shooter game titled-
Moto Rampage: Steve's Revenge

One of the weapons would be the buzzsaw shooter like in Unreal but instead of blades it would shoot flying Apple logo’s. They can take voice samples from Steve and use it in the game. And some of the more unique locations is the Moto Fab plants, their corp HQ, and a final battle between Steve and the CEO of Moto at the rim of an active volcano. The irony would be that the CEO would be tossing PPC7457’s shuriken style at Steve.

I think at this point there isn't anyone around who can’t agree that this is beyond pathetic. *sighs* I'm a patient person but usually I at least have a set date to put on my calendar for an event so I can count the days. Can’t even do that with the next series of PowerBooks. Then again the odds favor that it won’t be a G5 so it doesn’t really matter that much to me.
But for those who are waiting, bring on Moto Rampage.

[joeyjojoe]

People, stop blaming Motorola. If designing/fabricating microprocessors was something you could do in your basement, we would all have supercomputers in our homes. I love how nobody knows what is keeping the powerbooks, but they don't want to blame Apple so they find a scapegoat. How do you know Apple wasn't planning to have G5 powerbooks from the start, and the real problem is that IBM can't fabricate them well/fast enough. Lets all curse IBM now.

Or maybe some of you could try being level headed and see that no matter what the supply issues are, Apple and only Apple is responsible to the consumer for their lack of updates.

That being said, I'm buying the next powerbook even if its a fission reactor with a chalkboard for a screen. And yes I also wait impatiently. I just don't like people bashing Motorola without knowing all the facts.

[stingerman]

All the G5 orders will be filled within the next 2-4 weeks. Apple can start shipping a PB G5 starting at 1.3GHz in October along with Panther. I believe Panther is the key to the G5 Powerbook timeline, since performance is tuned for the G5 in addition to the G4. For the most part, Jaguar, even 10.2.7, has not been optimized for the G5 processor. The G5's higher clock rate mask this a bit, but with Panther, G5 systems will see an order of magnitude performance increase.

With Panther, a 1.3GHz PB G5 will rock, whereas if they released it with Jaguar, users expectations will not be met. IMO, the new 7457's were earmarked for the new iBooks, not the Powerbooks. Heat and battery life being the main issue when replacing the G3 processor's with G4's, something the 7457's were supposed to solve. The PB G5's will be able to go to 1.8 GHz without the heat issues everyone is afraid of, especially since most of the time the processor steps down to 1.3GHz.

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by joeyjojoe
I just don't like people bashing Motorola without knowing all the facts.

Ugh... you are way too sensitive dude...

I don't like Motorola because they failed to deliver the real g5.. for that reason, (and the small matter of the v60 cell phone), i hate them. This g4 thing, yeh.. its total crap and yeh, the other side of the fence are getting a bit worked up over a processor that isnt state of the art when released.. but oh well... the point is that Motorola is a big boy, he doesnt need you to fend off his critics. :)

[neilw]

What happens to the G5 chips that are lower grade than 1.6 gh but run at 1.0/1.2 ok ...... put them in the G5 PB

Is their a high or low % of these chips

The "low speed" G5's that would go into a PowerBook are not the cast-offs of the high-speed production line. The portable G5's would need to run at a lower voltage than the desktop machines, and that would require, for lack of a better term, "higher quality" chips, even though they're running slower. So the 1.2GHz low-voltage G5's might correspond to the 1.8 GHz higher-voltage chips used in PowerMacs (I don't know the exact correllation, just using that as an example.)

As for your question, my guess would be that there is fairly small percentage that won't make 1.6 GHz, else it would suggest poor yields in the process.

[billyboy]

Do you think Steve Jobs reads these Powerbook rumor boards. It would be interesting to be a fly on the brush metal effect walls of his office watching him as he reads this thread and sips on Apple juice and champagne mixed with the sweat of G5 and Panther developers. He´s muttering, "Hmmmm, warm; warmer; phew miles off and they´re all falling for it; wow thats close you Aussie smart ass; hmm that´s an angle I never thought of Ill make a note of that; JEEEZ wait till I get my hands on the fri****ing developer who let THAT BIT out the bag.......

[crees!]

Originally posted by Cless
I was talking to an Apple Distinguished Educator at my college (real high-up guy in video/TV production) about PowerBook updates, since I've been waiting for them to buy one. He looked at me knowingly and said something about September 18th, winked, and walked off. Could he be yanking my chain? You bet, but he does have connections at Apple and is a big proponant of their stuff. Who knows. Just adding more fuel to the fire I guess.

--Cless

I like these kinds of posts :D

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by joeyjojoe
People, stop blaming Motorola. If designing/fabricating microprocessors was something you could do in your basement, we would all have supercomputers in our homes.

Funny, but I think I could not ship 7457s out of my basement as well as Mot isn't...

Mot's a disaster in general and a disaster for Apple-- Apple has been shipping overclocked laptop processors in desktops for well into a year now because Mot can't get their process together or put their heads around a roadmap. Apple takes some blame for believing that they'd actually complete their own G5 (which they did for embedded customers, btw), or for not just abandoning them earlier, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that Mot is horribly mismanaged in all of their market segments.

I've worked with them-- this isn't just a problem for Apple, it's across the board.

Cell phones and network routers went to their heads and they lost all perspective. They tried to do everything at once, forgot where their core competences were, and wound up doing nothing instead.

And it's a shame because Mot used to be a premier company... Watching the dot-coms collapse because they were trying to catch a wave in a new market and didn't have the experience to build a real buisness plan doesn't bother me, but to see a venerable company like Mot go through this is just hard to watch...

They could have easily come out of this as well as TI if they'd stopped to think for a little while.

Sorry for the rant... It just depresses me to see a good technology company fall apart.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by neilw
The portable G5's would need to run at a lower voltage than the desktop machines, and that would require, for lack of a better term, "higher quality" chips, even though they're running slower. So the 1.2GHz low-voltage G5's might correspond to the 1.8 GHz higher-voltage chips used in PowerMacs (I don't know the exact correllation, just using that as an example.)

Beat me to it while I was busy ranting about Mot... :)

[Analog Kid]

Forget about the fans, folks, that's not an indication of heat. 9 fans doesn't mean the system is hot, and the fact that they're slow to limit noise doesn't mean it's cool.

Forget about the G5 chip itself. That's only one chip in the system.

Think about wider busses running on copper traces at 800-1000MHz to the system controller, the system controller itself, and then the wider, faster busses to the memory sitting in sockets.

Yes, it's possible to slow a G5 down and cripple the memory bandwidth and bring the power down, but the point is whether that makes a better laptop than a G4 and I don't think it would.

Especially not better than an improved smaller faster G4 which should be possible.

Unless, of course, there was no G4 to ship in which case they don't have a choice.

In the last PB delay thread I made the mistake of reading I commented that it might take 4-6 months to spin a system controller chip for a laptop if they got backed into a corner and put it on the fast track. That would line up with the rumor that started this thread-- early 2004.

I think Apple would prefer to wait for a die shrink for both the 970 and the system controller, and to maybe put the memory controller on the 970 die to eliminate one of the busses and grow the on chip cache to balance the slower memory bus, but they may cut their losses and go with what they've got.

The G5 label would make a splash. First 64 bit consumer laptop (there's SPARC laptops out there already...) would make a good headline. I'm sure they'd bake a benchmark to show that it was an advance, but I don't think it's what they want to do.

If they did this, I still wouldn't buy one until those changes happened though. I think the 1GHz TiBook would still be the better machine unless you needed the connectivity options.

In short, despite quoted power for the G5 chip in isolation, and talk of prototypes, I don't think it's ready for production laptops, but supply issues and marketing might force Apple's hand.

Just rumor mongoring with the rest...

[PHGN]

With the whole Powerbook fiasco and Powermac delay problem, I do begin to wonder whether Aplle might lose less money because of the problems if they stood up in Paris and published a rough roadmap -- it need not be detailed, but just saying 'Look there will/will not be anymore PBG4, the PBG5 won't be out untill March at least...'

At the moment I think they would gain as many quick sales as they'd loose, and in the long term probably gain more -- if only by stopping people from being let in to temptation (by bloody Viaos).

Ah.. Sony Viao, the single best proof that Sony wishes it were Apple but isn't. They keep trying to make a good PC but compatibility/standards prevent them. And being a Sony it's completly incompatible anyway 'cus half of it uses proprietary stuff and the rest has so much copy protection that you can't use it!

[Tom800]

Yea Great and Mighty Powers That Be
Enthroned in liquid air:
When d'ya think that we might see
The end of our despair?
We want a powerbook G5,
Lord knows we want it now;
We're shedding tears from bloodshot eyes
And getting by somehow.
Your eyes see all, but we must guess
The source of sinful shame;
The crooked Moto is favored best
To wear the tag of blame.
If Steve is up there, hear us now!
The time is up already!
Stop humping semi-sacred cows
And send us something steady!
So thus we grieve, and thus we cry,
Growing worse with each new rumor
Did I hear Februry, did I hear March?
We want something much sooner!
So cut the prices, hell, who cares?
One gig is fine for me
Just so long as something's there
In the G5 category
Oh great yea powers, hear me now
Thy solemn, musing poet:
Your laptops stink! They're out of date!
And everybody knows it!
And when the sun down yonder hill should stroll
And wild rose bequeath the night
No backlit keyboard shall light me home
As I stumble in my plight.
So thus we moan, and thus we grieve
With no hope for the morrow;
The pot of gold is make believe;
We cease our song of sorrow.

[PHGN]

Nicely put. :)

[Peej]

Originally posted by Bruja
Were it availible, would you buy it??


In a heartbeat. I've become punch-drunk and stupid from waiting so long.

peej

[prodco]

Originally posted by Hugin777
If you need VirtualPC you need a G4 (for the time being).

Especially on a portable it's nice to have access to a virtual PC when you need it.

try this:

http://www.openosx.com/wintel/index.html

It is much faster than VPC on dual G4, will be interested to see how it flies when i get the Dual G5

I'm surprised this is not on the front page!!!

[new user]

if you feel disappointed with the pb, it isn't motorola's fault.

the reason why there is so much uncertainty is because steve doesn't make forward or release announcements.

if you are unhappy with the performance side, apple is the one who decided to go with moto, and are the one, based on past experience, who don't have a better contingency plan.

apple's management makes the decision, they are expected to manage risk or suppliers' mistakes. and they will (hopefully) be the ones taking to heart the lesson learned with motorola.

that said, i'm disappointed, but i want an pb. so i have to take the bad (waiting, waiting, and waiting) with the good (a kickrear product).

[Mineral]

I'll ask again.....

Should I wait until Paris to buy a 12" powerbook??

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by eric67
i they say now Feb 2004; if it is true then they are pretty good.... so let see in January 2004 Apple announcement

There was a rumor a while back about Apple talking with a marketing firm about a Super Bowl commercial. Sounds like G5 Powerbooks to me.

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by Mineral
I'll ask again.....

Should I wait until Paris to buy a 12" powerbook??

It's only 10 days away, of course you should wait.

[PHGN]

As a Yank I know I should know..(and admiting not knowing is nigh on treason) .. when is the game this year?

How reliable was the roumer, and does anyone else think the G5 'You'll 100x as much on repairs' ad is well ... not their best?

[Wonder Boy]

The super bowl is always the last sunday in January.

if your talking about the guy flying through his trailor commercial, i think it sucks.

[a6rnh]

no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, ....

{smashes head on desk in disbelief}

[Zuckuss]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
I know everyone hates Moto with a passion and would rather have an Intel Inside sticker on a Powerbook saying Celeron then have another G4 inside, but give them a chance.

Hell no! Intel will never see my motherboard! I'd rather deal with moto's untimeliness then intel's unworthiness.

Edit: I almost forgot, Abercrombie is yet another crappy company.

[superscientific]

well I am happy with my 17" powerbook but will love to see a G5 based powerbook early next year.
Maybe they will slowly bring the G5 into the PB line ..such as the 17" getting the G5 first..

or a 20.1" G5 PB! Bwahaha

Danny

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by prodco
try this:

http://www.openosx.com/wintel/index.html

It is much faster than VPC on dual G4, will be interested to see how it flies when i get the Dual G5

Since when is Bochs faster than VirtualPC !?? :eek:

Is this your personal experience ? Which setup do you use. Which OS are you emulating ?

Version 2 of Bochs apparently got faster than version 1 (up to 2x), but one of the developers said "Bochs is much slower than Virtual PC" (http://sourceforge.net/forum/forum.php?thread_id=825273&forum_id=39591) a couple of months after version 2 was released...

BTW: OpenOSX's claim that Bochs uses both processors just isn't true.

[jamesatzones]

Originally posted by Mineral
I'll ask again.....

Should I wait until Paris to buy a 12" powerbook??

I would wait for a couple of reasons, first the PowerBooks are in desperate need of an update and two once Apple comes out with updates prices drop on remaining stock. Good things come to those who wait. Without sounding like a freakin sales person PM me if you want a new PowerBook!

[foureyes]

I've been following these powerbook rumors for several months now -- ever since I decided I was going to grad school. In any case, waiting for updates has been killing me! School has already started and I *need* a Mac for MAX/MSP stuff (though, I hear they're coming out with a windows port soon!).

So here's what I'm waiting for to finally get the damn thing (other than the PB updates, of course!):

- Panther, at least! Why buy now and drop extra for Panther, when it seems that it will be released soon?!

- Price drops. Wishful thinking, I know, but, let's face it... are the Powerbooks really worth all that extra money when they're obviously on the way out? C'mon, Apple, cut me a break! Sure, the student discounts are nice, but 1500 for a sub 1 GHz (I realize the whole clock speed thing isn't everything... but nearly everything about the Powerbook line is old!)?

I hope one of those things, or upgrades happen before the iPod bundle deal passes me by....

[nazariteguitar]

I have been waiting for a new powerbook for many many months now. I need a cutting edge notebook for my needs and a lame 1-1.3ghz is not going to cut it.

in comparison (not to advertise) I could get a new alienware area-51m notebook with:

pentium 3.2ghz processer
800mhz FSB
2GHz memory (up to)
NVIDIA® GeForce FX Go5600 128MB DDR
*which can be upgraded to ANY FUTURE video card, just pop it out and install the new one*
Exclusive Magnesium Alloy Saucer Silver Chassis
15.4" WSXGA+ TFT Active Matrix LCD
3-in-1 Built-In Media Card Reader
4 internal speaker surround

I know it's not as thin and light as a powerbook but I need a pro notebook not a toy.

[Tom800]

Originally posted by Tom800
Yea Great and Mighty Powers That Be
Enthroned in liquid air:
When d'ya think that we might see
The end of our despair?
We want a powerbook G5,
Lord knows we want it now;
We're shedding tears from bloodshot eyes
And getting by somehow.
Your eyes see all, but we must guess
The source of sinful shame;
The crooked Moto is favored best
To wear the tag of blame.
If Steve is up there, hear us now!
The time is up already!
Stop humping semi-sacred cows
And send us something steady!
So thus we grieve, and thus we cry,
Growing worse with each new rumor
Did I hear Februry, did I hear March?
We want something much sooner!
So cut the prices, hell, who cares?
One gig is fine for me
Just so long as something's there
In the G5 category
Oh great yea powers, hear me now
Thy solemn, musing poet:
Your laptops stink! They're out of date!
And everybody knows it!
And when the sun down yonder hill should stroll
And wild rose bequeath the night
No backlit keyboard shall light me home
As I stumble in my plight.
So thus we moan, and thus we grieve
With no hope for the morrow;
The pot of gold is make believe;
We cease our song of sorrow.

lol

Nicely put.

Hehe, thanks. It's heartfelt here.

[robinci]

Actually, the alienware notebook is the toy.
It's a notebook for gamers.

What (creative) pro wants to carry around that thing?
On top of that, it runs Windows or some alternative (e.g. Linux) operating system.

Personally, I've come to love Mac OS X and will use Windows only when I'm required to do so.

[cb911]

Oh no!! :eek:

i could have sworn i saw this news on Page 2 yesterday.... and then i wake up to see it on the front page! :eek: that's not a good sign...

i guess all we can do now is wait till the 16th, or until we hear news of Apple making more of the current models.:rolleyes:

[nazariteguitar]

Originally posted by robinci
Actually, the alienware notebook is the toy.
It's a notebook for gamers.

What (creative) pro wants to carry around that thing?
On top of that, it runs Windows or some alternative (e.g. Linux) operating system.

Personally, I've come to love Mac OS X and will use Windows only when I'm required to do so.

? so what is your point? What does the company's target audience have to do with the preformance that this machine is capable of.

[robinci]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
? so what is your point? What does the company's target audience have to do with the preformance that this machine is capable of.

I was not only talking about gamers as the targeted customers but mainly about the design. It should be pretty heavy and thick with stuff like a P4 3,2 inside.

The other question is whether the capability to run Mac OS X is important to you. To most former Apple users it is, so the x86-powered notebooks just aren't an alternative.

I'm also waiting for a new PowerBook to replace my iBook - but in general, we all could buy the current models if they provide appropriate performance (what they do for most users).

If you need more raw power and no Mac OS X and Apple design, I'd say go for the alienware notebook and load Windows 2000 on it. ;-)

[crayzaysean]

is there any chance that any and all future "i'm tired of waiting i'm buying ____ windows machine with _____ specs for _____ $$" posts could be deleted from now on? they're so redundant and boring (even moreso than the daily powerbook rumors). If you were REALLY going to do that, then you'd have done it three months ago. And if you DO actually go through with your plan, then just tell us after you've done it rather than making empty threats.

[Squire]

Originally posted by Loopy
What happens to the G5 chips that are lower grade than 1.6 gh but run at 1.0/1.2 ok ...... put them in the G5 PB

Is their a high or low % of these chips

Do you think apple would design a powerbook G5 at the same time as a G5 DT .......... I think so.

Have they had time to get these ready for Paris.:) :)

Good point. Who IS using 1.2 GHz G5s at the moment?

Squire

[Aydeeman]

From past experience, when the new Powerbooks do eventually appear, will we ever hear the true details of the cause of the delays, who was responsible, and the reaction and game plans of Apple HQ?

Thanks macrumors, my visits to these pages are better than any soap opera!

[Bruja]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
I have been waiting for a new powerbook for many many months now. I need a cutting edge notebook for my needs and a lame 1-1.3ghz is not going to cut it.

in comparison (not to advertise) I could get a new alienware area-51m notebook with:

pentium 3.2ghz processer
800mhz FSB
2GHz memory (up to)
NVIDIA® GeForce FX Go5600 128MB DDR
*which can be upgraded to ANY FUTURE video card, just pop it out and install the new one*
Exclusive Magnesium Alloy Saucer Silver Chassis
15.4" WSXGA+ TFT Active Matrix LCD
3-in-1 Built-In Media Card Reader
4 internal speaker surround

I know it's not as thin and light as a powerbook but I need a pro notebook not a toy. What are you doing?? Alienware deal w/ gaming !! If you wish a toy then that's a bloody awful lot of change to spend. At the risk of being schmacked down by the "Mac Realm" If you are going to by a wintel system then go Dell foh' sheezie!

[job]

Originally posted by Squire
Good point. Who IS using 1.2 GHz G5s at the moment?

Squire

I don't know, but do we even have definite proof that they even exist?

[DHagan4755]

Will you people take your PC notebook jazz elsewhere? I don't care. I care about new PowerBooks and when they're coming.

[Bruja]

Originally posted by DHagan4755
Will you people take your PC notebook jazz elsewhere? I don't care. I care about new PowerBooks and when they're coming. See what I mean :( But seriously, you have to know that the bloody things may not even be announced or released?? Still, I'm hoping for 2005. Perhaps 2004 coud be "The Year of A laptop" LOL . I could see it now (2005 for the G-5) it's gotta nice ring to it

[cing2x]

can anyone guesstimate, based on what's happened in the past, how long it will take to ship and receive the new powerbooks (whatever incarnation they might be) after they're announced?

[cr2sh]

Originally posted by Bruja
I could see it now (2005 for the G-5) it's gotta nice ring to it

the only "nice ring" about it is the fact that itll be a 5GHz g5.... :)

[uberman42]

i am thinkning that the hold up is not Moto, but apple in actually getting enough supply of motoherboards for the G5 powerbook. I am thinking that development of the G5 powerbook has probably accelerated in apr-jun timeframe when Moto broke news regarding the supply crunch.

prediction - we'll have to wait till january, but will be rewarded with G5 Pbooks (12" wide, 15", 17") utilizing a fuel cell for battery power.

[ozlow]

Originally posted by Bruja
What are you doing?? Alienware deal w/ gaming !! If you wish a toy then that's a bloody awful lot of change to spend. At the risk of being schmacked down by the "Mac Realm" If you are going to by a wintel system then go Dell foh' sheezie!

Bruja, the wait is making you insane! Wait it out, my fine american!

[ozlow]

I asked my magic 8-ball if powerbooks are going to be released on the 16th and if they would be G5...

All points to yes!

Stop the worry! The 8-ball is always right!

[Photorun]

And oooh, that alloy saucer silver chassis part, no no THAT'S not a toy, gimme a break.

You know what kind of company alienware is when you go to their website and there's some geek's idea of a wetdream anime chick with vulcan ears... and that's on their first page! Basically it's a site selling computers to loser gamer geeks who've never seriously kissed a girl, live with their parents, and choke the bishop to, well, lame cheesy unrealistic bad cartoons of chicks with pointy ears that's currently on alienware.

Now professionals that choose the best tools for the job, who make decent money and live on their own or students (or anyone) with discerning taste clearly should be buying Macs and, if they had to, a Dull or Sony ViooOOHHHImnotamac. I'd tip my hat to alienware for style and substance but it's neither. If I walked into a meeting with one of those I'd never be taken seriously and the only attention I'd get would be from 1. loser geeks and 2. okay... that's all the attention I'd get. I had a crowd around me after buying my first TiBook at a little cafe. Owners of peecee laptops gathering around asking what was it, what version of Windows did it run (I laughed at that one), and compliments galore. I think recently Sony did a commercial like that with their VioOOhhImstillnotamac and laughed. I have acquaintances with VioOOOhhnopedefinitelyjusta****tylaptopbySony and I can tell you NOBODY walks up to them when they pop it out of the saddlebags. I still get people asking about mine even while sitting next to friends with the VioOO(you get the picture). PC, ugly, nobody cares, Mac = art = buzz AND style AND substance.

Usually... until now when the processor is getting long in the tooth. I appreciate the naive optimism in this forums but facing facts, we're stuck with the G4 PB a lot longer, at least though this year. Bummer to be sure, but reality is reality, I wish I knew different.

One thing though re: the kiddieware, er, alienware laptop, I actually DO like that being able to swap out videocards from the laptop, this makes total sense as this is probably the one item that gets dated the fastest. I wish Apple would do this but am not holding my breath, Apple, great products always but always one dumb thing or two, lack of video card upgrading has been one of them.

Also, re: kiddiealienware, the prices on those (which was why I went to their site because the poster "conveniently" left the price off, ugly bad cartoons of fake looking supposed alien babes does nothing for me) aren't that great. I admit Apple's mark ups kinda are ridiculous but alienware's uglyass area 51 top of the line laptop costs almost $3700, which is more than the 17 inch Powerbook. Some expensive "toy!" But hey, the kiddieware area 51 comes with, oooh gee whiz... a remote! (???? WTF?)

Puuuhhllease.

[cb911]

Originally posted by ozlow
I asked my magic 8-ball if powerbooks are going to be released on the 16th and if they would be G5...

All points to yes!

Stop the worry! The 8-ball is always right!


YES!! i've been waiting for someone to post a good omen from the magic 8 ball!!.

now i can stop worrying and just chill out for a couple of weeks. :cool:

[gadg]

So help me out here guys ...

Based on rumors, ofcourse, it seems there are 3 options for me to evaluate:

(a) go for a secondhand Powerbook 867 now, saving 1/3rd of the purchasing price
(b) wait for the PPC7457 based update
(c) wait for the IBM based G5 Powerbook in Feb 2004?

Option (b) is pretty much ruled out. Not interesting, don't want to spend my cash on it. (a) is perhaps an interesting option. But waiting for 5-6 months for (c) is not that much of an issue when there is no immediate need for a new computer either. From a cash balancing perspective, moving the powerbook investment 6 months down the line is also interesting simply because I will be spending a lot of money after I've finalized the deal to buy an apartment. Then again, going for (b) now and getting the 1st revision of (c) which is probably 1-1.5 years down the line might also be an interesting idea.

Any thoughts?

(sorry if this is too much off-topic, please pm me if you feel more comfortable)

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by Photorun
I still get people asking about mine even while sitting next to friends with the VioOO(you get the picture). PC, ugly, nobody cares, Mac = art = buzz AND style AND substance.

So what you're saying is that two elegantly designed laptops side by side and people are more curious about the Mac? I'm not surprised - after all, who is the odd one out? It's the glimpse of the unfamiliar OS that makes the difference (Oooh... no Start button... how does it work... I'm scared...)

That or the fact that - judging by what you say above - you also carry a large sign with the words 'Look at me - the quality of my work matters not, but I want to be seen with something expensive' written on it.

Damn - now I'm getting drawn into the classing Mac/PC childish debate. No better than Sega/Nintendo...

(Sega were best, by the way :D )

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by gadg
(a) go for a secondhand Powerbook 867 now, saving 1/3rd of the purchasing price
(b) wait for the PPC7457 based update
(c) wait for the IBM based G5 Powerbook in Feb 2004?


The problem with (c) is that Feb 2004 is just a guess. Who knows when G5 Powerbooks will really arrive?

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by gadg
(a) go for a secondhand Powerbook 867 now, saving 1/3rd of the purchasing price

I'd say that was the worst option. Batteries wear out, and cost a fair bit - so you're not really saving a 3rd, once you factor in the new battery. The vendor will lie to you about how much they use the battery.

If you've got time, wait. If you're desperate, haggle!

[Squire]

Originally posted by gadg
So help me out here guys ...

Based on rumors, ofcourse, it seems there are 3 options for me to evaluate:

(a) go for a secondhand Powerbook 867 now, saving 1/3rd of the purchasing price
(b) wait for the PPC7457 based update
(c) wait for the IBM based G5 Powerbook in Feb 2004?

If I were you, I'd go for "a" before the rest of the world realizes what a bright decision it would be.

Squire

[nazariteguitar]

I should have known I would have been flamed for putting a post like that, but I think you misinterpreted me and focused on a small part of what I was saying.

I personally have never owned a mac. I am a college student and am taking a course in 3D animation (possibly specializing in gaming) and absolutely love OSX and love macs period. The specific brand "alienware" was just an example I used. The point I was trying to make was, for me, and the work that i'm involved in I need a top of the line machine, and right now the current notebook wont cut it.

For me I need something of at least 1.6GHZ+

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
For me I need something of at least 1.6GHZ+

You know, I think there might be one or two Mac Heads on here who'll take exception to that as well. 'Processor Clock Speed is no guarntee of quality' they'll say. (It all sounds a bit like blokes comparing things in the showers...)

Of course they're right, up to a point. But, whatever stats they show you, a 3GHz Pentium still beats a 1Ghz G4...

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
I should have known I would have been flamed for putting a post like that, but I think you misinterpreted me and focused on a small part of what I was saying.

I personally have never owned a mac. I am a college student and am taking a course in 3D animation (possibly specializing in gaming) and absolutely love OSX and love macs period. The specific brand "alienware" was just an example I used. The point I was trying to make was, for me, and the work that i'm involved in I need a top of the line machine, and right now the current notebook wont cut it.

For me I need something of at least 1.6GHZ+

Actually it was worth it just to get Photorun's post... :D

The first question to ask yourself is: what OS do my tools run on. You certainly don't want to run 3D tools through VPC...

If you've got some basis for the 1.6GHz claim, and it's weird to pick a number like that by the way (why not 2GHz, or 1.5?), then you're going WinTel. I haven't seen anyone claim a G4 or G5PB at 1.6GHz. G4s are rumored around 1.4 max, and people keep talking 1.2 and below to keep a G5 from melting the frame...

If you can wait 'til '05, then you might get a G5 in that range.

From experience, I can say that the G4PB might take a little longer to complete a long operation (in my case simulations), but you can actually do other things with it during that time-- the tasking is really smooth. Most Wintel users are afraid to touch a box that's busy...

If you buy a Dell, long operations are a good time to check the carpet for screws that fell out of the case...

Gaming is a usually a flag that you want an Intel box-- not that I want to discourage anyone from developing games for the Mac!

[MacDuffer]

Originally posted by beloit08
Maybe, back in January when Steve said this would be the "year of the laptop," what he really meant was that we'd be stuck with the same laptop all year.

LMFAO!! :D

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
From experience, I can say that the G4PB might take a little longer to complete a long operation (in my case simulations), but you can actually do other things with it during that time-- the tasking is really smooth. Most Wintel users are afraid to touch a box that's busy...

If you buy a Dell, long operations are a good time to check the carpet for screws that fell out of the case...

ROFL :D

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
If you buy a Dell, long operations are a good time to check the carpet for screws that fell out of the case...

Funny, but actually Dell uses Loctite (http://www.loctite.com/) on its case screws....

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Funny, but actually Dell uses Loctite (http://www.loctite.com/) on its case screws....

Well then remind me not to use Loctite! I thought the comment was funny b/c all the Dell laptops in our office have lost screws.

[etoiles]

ok, so I did not read the hundreds of messages regarding the PowerBooks and their delay, so sorry if something like this has been posted before.

Here is a little 'philosophical crutch': remember how long we waited for OSX ? Remember how we were all disappointed when it wasn't ready, and then still wasn't ready, and then... and now we are all happy campers. It is all good at the end, we just need to be more patient. Good things take time to mature.

I don't know, I feel really positive today. I am sure this is going to be a good day, even without new PB ;)

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
Well then remind me not to use Loctite! I thought the comment was funny b/c all the Dell laptops in our office have lost screws.

At least, Dell is using Loctite *now* ;)

Don't know about older laptops, but I've swapped hard drives in a couple of brand new Latitude systems - and the screws are very hard to turn until you break the Loctite bond.

[Finch]

Originally posted by cb911
YES!! i've been waiting for someone to post a good omen from the magic 8 ball!!.

now i can stop worrying and just chill out for a couple of weeks. :cool:

What is magic 8 ball?

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by Finch
What is magic 8 ball?

Aww, you deprived child. Did you not have one as a kid?

Have you seen Toy Story? Woody consults a magic 8 ball with the question 'will Andy pick me?'

[yujini]

Originally posted by lord_flash
So what you're saying is that two elegantly designed laptops side by side and people are more curious about the Mac? I'm not surprised - after all, who is the odd one out? It's the glimpse of the unfamiliar OS that makes the difference (Oooh... no Start button... how does it work... I'm scared...)

That or the fact that - judging by what you say above - you also carry a large sign with the words 'Look at me - the quality of my work matters not, but I want to be seen with something expensive' written on it.

Damn - now I'm getting drawn into the classing Mac/PC childish debate. No better than Sega/Nintendo...

(Sega were best, by the way :D )

That's what I was exactly thinking when i was reading the post.

(Nintendo is the best, by the way :) )

[Mac Dummy]

Originally posted by Analog Kid
Funny, but I think I could not ship 7457s out of my basement as well as Mot isn't...

Mot's a disaster in general and a disaster for Apple-- Apple has been shipping overclocked laptop processors in desktops for well into a year now because Mot can't get their process together or put their heads around a roadmap. Apple takes some blame for believing that they'd actually complete their own G5 (which they did for embedded customers, btw), or for not just abandoning them earlier, but that doesn't eliminate the fact that Mot is horribly mismanaged in all of their market segments.

I've worked with them-- this isn't just a problem for Apple, it's across the board.

Cell phones and network routers went to their heads and they lost all perspective. They tried to do everything at once, forgot where their core competences were, and wound up doing nothing instead.

And it's a shame because Mot used to be a premier company... Watching the dot-coms collapse because they were trying to catch a wave in a new market and didn't have the experience to build a real buisness plan doesn't bother me, but to see a venerable company like Mot go through this is just hard to watch...

They could have easily come out of this as well as TI if they'd stopped to think for a little while.

Sorry for the rant... It just depresses me to see a good technology company fall apart.

I'm with you, I heard somewhere that Motorola was getting out of the semiconductor business all together. Maybe they'll focus on building better cell phones or something.

[Bruja]

Originally posted by yujini
That's what I was exactly thinking when i was reading the post.

(Nintendo is the best, by the way :) ) Nah, Xbox has the best graphics

[Beleava24]

Folks, just some interesting tidbits to pass along. I am trying to get out of the PC world and step into the Matrix that is the Mac World. I've been mulling the decision to get a 15" TiBook or wait until the updates. Well, this started back in July. It's now September with no new PB's. I decided to cave in and I contacted my local Mac shop and told them that I wanted a TiBook. They didn't have any in stock and made several calls but couldn't locate any. The guy at the store said that he has at least 1 person a day that wants a TiBook now but they can't supply them. So, my question is...would Apple really shoot themselves in the foot this way? The PB's are in demand and I'm afraid many people are just going straight to Dell...because of a lack of stock. If the updates aren't going to be available immediately then why wouldn't Apple send out more of the TiBooks??

[macphoria]

Folks, just some interesting tidbits to pass along. I am trying to get out of the PC world and step into the Matrix that is the Mac World. I've been mulling the decision to get a 15" TiBook or wait until the updates. Well, this started back in July. It's now September with no new PB's. I decided to cave in and I contacted my local Mac shop and told them that I wanted a TiBook. They didn't have any in stock and made several calls but couldn't locate any. The guy at the store said that he has at least 1 person a day that wants a TiBook now but they can't supply them. So, my question is...would Apple really shoot themselves in the foot this way? The PB's are in demand and I'm afraid many people are just going straight to Dell...because of a lack of stock. If the updates aren't going to be available immediately then why wouldn't Apple send out more of the TiBooks??
This could be a good news. Stores running low on stock usually means Apple is preparing a new product introduction and trying to clear out its old stock.

But in this case, it could be that Apple is preparing a new product introduction and trying to clear out its old stock AND their product is DELAYED. They could have planned to introduce new 15" PowerBook and simply unable to do so because lack of processor supplies.

In a way, Apple is shooting itself in the foot but they have little choice. They can't introduce new Aluminium 15" PowerBook with same old processor because once the new processor comes out, it will probably have to be redesigned. And if G5 PowerBook is around the corner, there is no point playing around with G4 processor. If faster G4 Aluminium 15" PowerBook came out couple of months ago, it would have given them enough time to prepare G5 PowerBook. Now with this G4 15" PowerBook delay, I'm worried that G5 PowerBook might get pushed back just so that G4 PowerBook can have enough time on the market.

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by macphoria
In a way, Apple is shooting itself in the foot but they have little choice. They can't introduce new Aluminium 15" PowerBook with same old processor because once the new processor comes out, it will probably have to be redesigned. And if G5 PowerBook is around the corner, there is no point playing around with G4 processor. If faster G4 Aluminium 15" PowerBook came out couple of months ago, it would have given them enough time to prepare G5 PowerBook. Now with this G4 15" PowerBook delay, I'm worried that G5 PowerBook might get pushed back just so that G4 PowerBook can have enough time on the market.

And that is a very bad thing.

[joeyjojoe]

Originally posted by Bruja
Nah, Xbox has the best graphics

I'm sorry but the XBox is total crap. If you like it, you might as well just buy a computer and play on that. Second, the controller was surely designed for an irate gorilla. That is all.

[machem]

You know, as long as you are willing to order from the Apple Store (online or brick-and-mortar), you can get a Powerbook 15". They are still building them, and can deliver them. Of course, this could change, like instantly, but I have seen enough people (physically and in forum-land) get them to convince me the channel is damp, but not yet bone-dry.

I think the 1GHz TiBook is still attractive if you can qualify for the EDU discount (especially if you are willing to wait 4-8 weeks to make an iPod an effective $69), or you can haggle the price down (this is possible, it doesn't hurt to try, at least). If you pay, say, $2200 for a SD 1GHz TiBook, that is still going to be at least $200 less than a new, 1.25GHz if they come out say, on the 16th. And you can flash your firmware to get the SD to 2x speed. Besides the mental anguish of not having the fastest G4 anymore, it is probably a fair tradeoff.

Of course, it helps if you like the looks of the TiBook better than the recycle-able Al. ;)

[yuc7zhd2]

[big]

not our business, but why are you going to jail?

[yuc7zhd2]

[Bruja]

Originally posted by joeyjojoe
I'm sorry but the XBox is total crap. If you like it, you might as well just buy a computer and play on that. Second, the controller was surely designed for an irate gorilla. That is all. Wow.. Such fire!! don't mince words, tell us how you really feel ;) The controller has nothin' to do with the graphics.. Or are you experiencing any bad M$ memories?? Tell Dr. Bruja..

[macphoria]

I'm sorry but the XBox is total crap. If you like it, you might as well just buy a computer and play on that. Second, the controller was surely designed for an irate gorilla. That is all.
Personally, I like PlayStation2 better. But Xbox is not bad at all and its games are getting better all the time. And they do have smaller controllers, which was originally redesigned for Japanese market.

Going back to PowerBook issue, when do you guys think 15" Aluminium PowerBook will debut? Will it be G4? Or considering the delay, skip G4 all together and come out later with G5?

[big]

>Going back to PowerBook issue, when do you guys think 15" Aluminium PowerBook will debut? Will it be G4? Or considering the delay, skip G4 all together and come out later with G5?


read the last 3 months ranting & raving posts, in just about all the forums

year of the laptop? sheesh

[NoPrideELF]

If we are truly to wait until mid-october now (sept 16th is late enough as it is), It damn well better be a G5

[cr2sh]

I don't know... could it be possible for apple to release a g5 powerbook this soon, maybe.. but certainly not a 3 different g5 models. I could see them updating the 15" powerbook as a g5, without bringing updates to the rest of the lineup. I doubt it though, I think we're going to have a g4 revision in september and a g5 in january. :confused:

[Billicus]

I AM GOING TO EXPLODE If they don't release PowerBooks sometime soon...:mad::mad::mad:

[rpc]

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Funny, but actually Dell uses Loctite (http://www.loctite.com/) on its case screws....

My Dell has lost so many screws its pretty dead right now. And I am very tired of it.

The other thing I'm tired of? Apple dragging their feet!! I can't stand this waiting!!! <insert maniacal pant here>

Isn't it about time for something to come out? Or can someone point me at some other solution. I waited and waited and now I'm at school sans useful laptop. What to do, what to do...
-rpc

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by Bruja
Nah, Xbox has the best graphics

But is it not made by a company we have limited respect for?

[matznentosh]

Originally posted by Bruja
Perhaps 2004 coud be "The Year of A laptop" LOL .

Come to think of it, maybe that's what Steve said back then, "This is the year of _a_ laptop", not "year of _the_ laptop".

Like when Armstrong landed on the moon and said "This is one small step for a man and one giant leap for mankind" but static made it sound like "This is one small step for man" etc.

[kemplar]

Originally posted by ewinemiller
I have to agree, my father has one of those 10.5 inch Vaios from a few years back. It's awesome, weighs about as much as a thick paperback, wafer thin, relatively fast, battery lasts forever, fits in a purse, glovebox of your car, or small bag without a problem. I wouldn't use it to type a thesis, but it's a great traveling notebook. I wish Apple sold something in that segment.

You're talking about the PictureBooks. They are not quite "standard issue" Sonys. They are simply what trickles down into the North Americas from Japan. Much better computers than the Vaios most of us here have had to deal with.

As for Apple making a unit of considerable size: here, here. I don't see why Apple couldn't slap a low-voltage G3 into a chassis of that size.

I've lugged my hot 15" G4 around on a 4 month business trip through Europe and would have gladly replaced it with a G3 of that size had that been an option.

IBM all the way, baby.

[AllenPSU]

I finally gave in an ordered a custom build 12" Powerbook.

It finally hit me that I could get a 12" Powerbook at $400 less than its initial release price with my eduction discount. That is more than 20% off the original price.

I added an Airport Extreme card, and went with 640MB RAM and 60GB HD to bridge any gap an update might create.

I alsoy decided against a superdrive because of the 1X burn speed. Instead I put a Pioneer A05 in my Quicksilver and upgraded its harddrive. (it cost less and got more bang with the DVD burner).

For everyone's information, the ship date is NLT 9/18/03. That is 14 days from the date of order (10 working days). I will let everyone know if there are any delays to that time line.

[wdavies]

So, my 18 month old TiBook is in a state of shock. Its disk is nearly fubar'ed, and should be replaced, the trackpad has died on me, and the paint work looks like something from the Night Of The Living Dead.

So, why not just send it back to Apple under AppleCare? Well, coz its my primary work machine. I have a clunky G3 desktop, but that's not going to cut it. So I want to buy a new 15", and send this one back and have it as a backup.

But there is NO WAY, I am about to by a 15" laptop at the moment. No blue tooth, processor outdated, no uber airport.. I mean why would I want to buy a machine that is on the edge of its shelf life. Knock 1k of the the price and I might buy... as it is I am very tempted by the 12" iBook to be honest. Anyone got a benchmark vs a TiBook 15" -

Winton

[songofthewoods]

So, Im reading all of your posts on my G3 i-Book, thinking "Man, I can't wait for the new Powerbook updates" when my i-Book takes a dump on me. The screen went completely black, and never came back. $700 to fix it.....yeah like THAT"S going to happen. I can't beleive it!!! I've been hanging onto this slow 600mhz G3 for 6 months waiting for the new 15" AL and this thing takes a dump on me NOW??? ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

Soooo......just ordered my new (old) Ti-Book.

Another one bites the dust..........

[Peej]

Had another dream last night that Steve Jobs unveiled an Apple XBox in Paris.

Still waiting,

peej
:)

[NicoMan]

Originally posted by songofthewoods
So, Im reading all of your posts on my G3 i-Book, thinking "Man, I can't wait for the new Powerbook updates" when my i-Book takes a dump on me. The screen went completely black, and never came back. $700 to fix it.....yeah like THAT"S going to happen. I can't beleive it!!! I've been hanging onto this slow 600mhz G3 for 6 months waiting for the new 15" AL and this thing takes a dump on me NOW??? ARRRRGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!

Soooo......just ordered my new (old) Ti-Book.

Another one bites the dust..........
MacBidouille has been hinting tonight at new products on monday. They don't say more than that, except that a rumour they had printed recently (my guess is: PBs not before mid-Oct) was possibly wrong...
In all likelihood, even if you ordered a PB today, you will be able change/cancel it on monday.
But maybe it's another one of the long line of (PBs tomorrow.../...unlucky). Who knows.

[cing2x]

Apple may announce and start taking orders for a revamped line of PowerBook G4s as early as next week, one source tells AppleInsider. The tip comes amongst recent recent rumors that have pin-pointed Motorola for failing to deliver sufficient quantities of the PowerPC 7457 to support a successful product launch.

According to the source, Apple management feels that supplies of the faster chips are now ample and the new units could full-fill backorders and be shipping in quantity by mid to late September. Included in the new breed of PowerBooks is said to be a 1.25 GHz aluminum 15" model that sports a back-lit keyboard, ports on the side (as opposed to the rear), and an updated track pad and mouse button.

Sources could not confirm a date or time for the official announcement, but did mention September 9th or 10th as likely candidates. It should be noted that the deployment schedule for the aforementioned units has slipped several times over the past month, while channel inventory of several configurations has remained depleted. Meanwhile, the initial packaging and marketing material for the new portables was said to have been completed over a month ago

[macphoria]

At this point, they should just forget G4 15" Aluminium PowerBook altogether and get their act together and push up the release date for G5 15" Aluminium PowerBook.

[lord_flash]

Why is alu cooler than titanium all of a sudden? Isn't titanium the sort of thing people make space ships out of?

Oh well, I reckon it should be magnesium. My little Vaio is magnesium and a lovely shade of purple (presumably the varnish to stop it exploding when wet). With different colored varnish, there's a whole new power-iBook range just waiting to be invented in California...

[Reiginko]

Maybe Apple's saving the keynote for something Completely new! Say, what's going on with that iPhone trademark, eh? And all those other whispers of new products. Maybe Steve hasn't completely given Motorola the proverbial kit-kat chunky, just their microprocessor department. Maybe they're helping build the iPhone!!!
What I'm saying is that, however far-fetched it may sound, the focus may be on something other than the (in my humble opinion undoubtable) slight speed markup for the G4 PBs. Something new and exciting. I'm probably wrong, but I can dream, can't I? ;)

- Reiginko