The Good, The Bad and the Ugly

[dcb]

This post is motivated by the way some people have treated backtothemac (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36470)

My biggest pet peeve is when certain people have this greater than thou attitude when it comes to anything Apple...and I truly believe that this does a disservice to Apple Users and Apple across the board.

When we dismiss user issues as whining and complaining, we send a message to Apple...Bend me over. We allow Apple to dismiss consumer issues because they know they have a devout customer base who believes that Apple can do no wrong.

As a recent "switcher", I have had my share of negative experiences with Apple, and it is absolutely demoralizing to read and participate in some of the threads because "zealots" (for a lack of better terms) are on the prowl and ready to attack anything that goes against the Apple way of life. This is wrong and when Apple Execs read through these discussion boards, don't you think they base their policies and corporate culture on the fact that there best line of defense are the consumers who believe Apple is perfect.

If you want better products, better service, more software and better support - quit bending over and demand perfection - or improvement at the very least! (Please don't post no one is perfect...that is a given!)

With that in mind...I would like to hear about the not so great Apple experiences. Maybe an Apple Exec will take a second look on some of the issues that Apple Users face without the distraction of personal attacks and sophmoric comparisons to PC's, Bill Gates and windows.

[kpfist]

I love the apple product when it's working. It's the total lack of support that ironically leaves loyal customers abandoned that I have an issue with. I am a college student who splurged on a top-of-the-line powerbook one year ago. About 7 months later I began witnessing discolorations that gradually grew on my LCD. When I sent it into apple, the computer was returned with a "declined repair" notice and an almost 100% discolored LCD citing "obvious physical damage" that never occured. Never once did I receive the slightest hint of empathy, care, or "support". I was a recent switcher still under warantee who DID NOT physically abuse the product and received nothing from apple but a declined repair, a $2500 hole in my miniscule bank account, and 3 more years of college without a computer. I don't know what is wrong with this system, but this SHOULDN'T "just happen" like one of the telephone support people told me and changing to apple SHOULDN'T be the biggest misktake I've ever made. Should it?

[peterj1967]

My experience with Apple support has for the most part all been positive. Had an issue with the DP 1.25 I bought, and while they didn't diagnose it over the phone, they were very helpful. It turned out to be a switch on the monitor not the machine.

Used to support over 300 macs in a school and when needed, I had good relations with tech support.

Not always perfect, but I'd give them a very good rating.

[Backtothemac]

Well, I have been using macs since before some of the members here were born. I can remember a time with Apple, when they would bend over backwards for a customer. Those days have changed. As a reseller, I had many customers who were in the same situation as the memeber before with his powerbook. My 22" Cinema display went through the ringer before it was repaired.

I had a customer in Seatle that had a powerbook that the SuperDrive was DOA. Apple claimed that it was user damage, although the gentleman did nothing to the system. It took me calling customer care on his behalf in order to get the system fixed.

It just seems lately that they have developed an attitiude of the customer is guilty until proven innocent.

[crazytom]

Ask any MDD Windtunnel owner what they think of Apple!!! Even with their 'gracious PS replacement' these things still make a lot of noise! I've heard "Oh, but with dual processors, you're going to have noise" --- bah...I've heard Dell POS's with big processors in them that are downright SILENT!

My first G4 tower came with second rate memory installed in it (3-2-2 speed, not 2-2-2)...You can't buy a barebones Mac and upgrade it yourself, forcing you to pay Apple insane prices for hard drives and memory.... Software upgrades cost nearly 50-75% of the original purchase price. Customer service seems to be hit-or-miss depending which side of the bed the person on the other end of the phone got up on (though, all the CSR's I've talked to were pleasant).

I've been a loyal Mac user for the last 12 years. The only thing that is keeping me from switching back is M$. Apple is the lesser of the two evils. If the Linux environment was developed enough for audio + video, I'd jump ship in a heartbeat. I feel (and have experienced) your pain, but when you're up against a big corporation, you can't do much more than 'bend over' unless you have a lot of community support; even then they might only decide that they should use vaseline while their at it.

[mactastic]

Yeah, the only really fair way to look at apple though, is in relation to others in their industry. Have people had better response from customer service reps from Dell? Compaq? MS? I don't think apples that bad in comparison. I know there are some horror stories, but I'm sure there are those from all manufacturers. Am I wrong here?

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by mactastic
Yeah, the only really fair way to look at apple though, is in relation to others in their industry. Have people had better response from customer service reps from Dell? Compaq? MS? I don't think apples that bad in comparison. I know there are some horror stories, but I'm sure there are those from all manufacturers. Am I wrong here?

Well, I know that just recently my Dell 8100 died. They did not have the parts in stock to repair it, so instead of making me wait just 3 weeks, they sent me a new 8300.

Went from a 1.5PIV to a 2.6 HP PIV. Not that bad.

I have called Dell several times, and never been treated like I have been by Apple.

[mactastic]

Originally posted by Backtothemac
Well, I know that just recently my Dell 8100 died. They did not have the parts in stock to repair it, so instead of making me wait just 3 weeks, they sent me a new 8300.

Went from a 1.5PIV to a 2.6 HP PIV. Not that bad.

I have called Dell several times, and never been treated like I have been by Apple.

Well you'd have to be a really unlucky SOB to get treated badly by everyone you deal with. I hope bad customer service is the exception rather than the rule, but I guess it is going downhill these days. The point was that I bet if we dug around there are some Dell horror stories too. I've never had a problem with apple, or been treated rudely by them myself, but I don't know what that proves.

[Backtothemac]

Originally posted by mactastic
Well you'd have to be a really unlucky SOB to get treated badly by everyone you deal with. I hope bad customer service is the exception rather than the rule, but I guess it is going downhill these days. The point was that I bet if we dug around there are some Dell horror stories too. I've never had a problem with apple, or been treated rudely by them myself, but I don't know what that proves.

Oh, I agree. I can remember when Dell was a nightmare to deal with, and Apple was nearly flawless. Now thought that seems to be changing, and as a lover of the Mac, that is disturbing you know.

[jaw04005]

I have had mixed responses from Apple. My iBook (when i owned it) had the problem were the screen would have horizontal and vertical lines up and down it as you moved it back in forth. I sent it in for repair, and the techs repaired my sound port and not the display problem. I had to send it back to them, and then they tried to charge me for a new logic board ($650 dollars/after only 2 months of use). Generally, the CSR that you speak to first is low on the totem pole and I find that they are usually the most friendly. However, when you have to move up and talk to an *engineer* or someone else, they start asking alot of questions. I found out recently, if they are giving you a bunch of BS just ask to talk to Customer Relations and CR will be more than willing to help. I think those people get paid to listen to you gripe! Haha. Also, I have had huge problems with my iMac FP's periphrals. The keyboard has been replaced twice, the mouse once, and the power cord once. I had no problems getting overnight replacements, except the fact they tried to talk me into driving 90 miles to Memphis and letting the Apple Store at Saddle Creek take a look at my iMac's USB ports. I would like to know why there is so much flexibility between Apple's policy. There is a good chance if they won't give you what you want, you can call back and get another rep and they will. Kinda like the $50/dollar out of 90 day telephone support charge. I have had some reps, thats the first thing they ask me... I need your credit card in case this is a software issue. And, I have had some reps simply ask me is this a hardware or software issue? And not even care about my credit card. So it all depends. I think they need to get a little more organized. We have a Dell desktop, and maybe its because I live in the South (maybe we speak a little slower :P). But everytime I have called Dell, I have gotten someone who has a hard time speaking English which causes a major problem. Dell's answer to everything is "Let's reformat and reinstall Windows XP", which is very annoying. You win some, you loose some.

Josh

[dcb]

Originally posted by mactastic
Yeah, the only really fair way to look at apple though, is in relation to others in their industry. Have people had better response from customer service reps from Dell? Compaq? MS? I don't think apples that bad in comparison. I know there are some horror stories, but I'm sure there are those from all manufacturers. Am I wrong here?

No, no, no! I can't understand why everyone wants to compare Apple to PC's. It is like you are looking for a flaw in other companies to justify Apple's shortcomings! There should be NO comparison to any other company. Good Customer Service, good products, and good service speak for itself!

When I call Apple customer service, I want the person to listen, I want my problem to be resolved and I want them to be friendly and reassuring. I don't need another company to define those parameters! Do you guys understsand my point? Apple is one company...we can search the umpteen other PC companies for shortcomings to feel better about owning an Apple or we can let Apple stand alone.

For the most part, Apple has a good product, and decent customer service...but when it is time for my company to purchase new computers...I probably won't go with Apple due to a couple of bad experiences and because I know that Apple can do whatever it wants because everyone here will bow down and bend over before standing up and saying fix it.

Oh, and I also wanted to say that my point is pretty much proven by the lack of posts here.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by dcb
...
Oh, and I also wanted to say that my point is pretty much proven by the lack of posts here.

Well, you asked for people to post bad experiences they've had and haven't gotten many. Logically, that means that people haven't had many bad experiences, not that they're "bending over" as you so graphically put it.

[dcb]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Well, you asked for people to post bad experiences they've had and haven't gotten many. Logically, that means that people haven't had many bad experiences, not that they're "bending over" as you so graphically put it.

Exactly, Apple is perfect. I know, I know, I know. I have seen PC's castrated for lesser evils in this forum. Hmmm...wonder why Apple can't boost it's market share. Logically, wouldn't you think that a company as great as apple would have more consumers?

Another edit: I realize that I don't know how to pull a punch when it comes to these discussion. I don't think I am a troll, but someone pointed out that I am. Despite that...my goal is to affect change...overall, I like Apple and I want to see some changes that would benefit everybody. Sorry if I offended anybody, but as for me...I want more, I want better from Apple

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by dcb
Exactly, Apple is perfect. I know, I know, I know. I have seen PC's castrated for lesser evils in this forum.

That's not what I said and you know it.

[patrick0brien]

Originally posted by dcb
...it is absolutely demoralizing to read and participate in some of the threads because "zealots" (for a lack of better terms) are on the prowl and ready to attack anything that goes against the Apple way of life.

-dcb

The zealotry exists on both side of the fence, though Mac zealots tend to react faster due to the minority 'underdog' nature of the user base - always fighting uphill. You will also notice that most zealots - either side of the fence - are holding on to older knowledge, windows crashing "all the time", and Macs crashing "all the time", is one such memory.

You are absolutely correct that zealotry in any form is blind loyalty that never served anyone.

Once you spend some time here and get to know the flavor and feel of different posters, you will begin to create an expectation, and therefore establish certain credibilities of those posters.

It just takes some time to determine the value.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by dcb
...
Hmmm...wonder why Apple can't boost it's market share. Logically, wouldn't you think that a company as great as apple would have more consumers?

Doesn't make much sense to me...for a company to be so perfect, they sure are growing at a snails pace.

Since we're throwing the term zealot around, here's one for you to try on: troll.