OS X vs XP

[Macnewbie1]

Hi,

I am sitting on the fence right now and trying to decide which way to tumble. I have been using windows for ever and have been coming to this forum out of curiosity. Now having read about the raving reviews of OS X and how it is next best thing to God :D, I need some objective assessment of OS X vs XP (please don't tell me that your windows OS is crashing all the time....that was the case with me too when I was using 98 but since then fewer than 5 crashes for win2K and not even a single crash for XP and I have been using XP since RC1 .. I have no idea what these people are doing with the machine that is making them crash all the time :rolleyes: ).

Moderators please share your wisdom if you have time and others please feel free to join in (it is not supposed to be a flame war .... please just share your experiences only)

Thanks All.

HG

[TEG]

In my experience (Not owning XP or having any intention to) I have found XP to slow durring basic tasks, and quite unintuitive. I tried to use my aunt's Dell with XP, and found many of the tasks I used to use in 98 were gone. Many times my roomates/coworkers/family cannot get something to work with XP, like a mouse, printer, or even some webpages. I hook it up to my PowerBook and use OSX and they all work, with no configuration. Also, the spyware built into XP has me quite concerned. Anything you do can be viewed by M$ if they so desired. However, we only have to put up with Adobe's spyware. That is easily disabled, but Windows won't operate without the spyware.

Many other problems... but I don't have time.

TEG

[Freg3000]

First off, let me agree that I think too many people here say that Windows based PCs crash everyday, which is simply not true.

However, I do think that there is a lot of crap you have to wade through on XP. My friend for instance, has a Dell running XP. He has to wait 2 minutes after it is turned on, after all these little applications that he never installed open, so he can close them. They might re open for no reason, but he closes them again.

Pop ups? Wow. I told him to get a browser with pop up blocker. He already does.

I can go on and on. It's not that is crashes, it just always acts poorly. It is not his fault, he is an average user (not dumb enough to mess it up accidentally, and not smart enough to be tinkering with the system and thereby screwing it up.)

Is it Windows fault? Probably not. But why would you want to deal with all of that?

In Mac OS X, that barely ever happens. Once in a while you'll download a dmg file from some ultra small 3rd party software developer, and it won't open. An an app might unexpectedly quit. Big deal, all software has a few holes.

Point is, that is the biggest difference I see between OS X and XP. If you don't experience problems with the task manager or spyware, this post probably won't mean much to you. But if it does, you might be ready to come out of the darkness. :)

Good luck.

[Waluigi]

I'm writing this post on a PC running windows XP for 12 straight days with multiple programs being installed, and internet explorer having crashed a few times, but have not needed to restart. Seriously, windows XP is a good step in the right direction for Microsoft.

Pros of XP:
Faster
Can utilize more RAM then older versions
New user interface (I like it personally)
Auto-install (lots of stuff is just plug in play, and was only a dream in 98)

Cons of XP:
Spyware
Internet Explorer
The whole registering with microsoft only 3 times

But, that is only the OS.

Sure, Apple's OS is very nice, and so much more enjoyable to use, however, it is really the APPS that got me to buy my G5. I'm not going to use the start menu, or the Dock 95% of the time. I'm going to be video editing, making web sites for companies, video chatting, playing a library of songs, touching up and playing with photos in Photoshop, and things like that. Using OS X is just so much more integrated, and an overall positive user experience. iMovie and iDVD are so easy, and nothing written for windows comes close.

Go to OS X, and you'll be very happy, but windows XP is no joke either, it just really lacks the iApps, and is made by evil Microsoft.

--Waluigi

[Mac til death]

Mac OS X is a dream for me, and I've had experience with many OSes including Mac OS 6 thru 9, Windows 95,98,ME,2000,XP, and to a much lesser degree linux. I guess it just has to do with personal preference... If you want (biased of course) info that is negative about Microsoft there is www.microsuck.com


as for a comparison of the two, there are websites that do pretty fair comparisons.

http://www.xvsxp.com/

http://thetechnozone.com/smartbuyersguide/OS_Shootout-2003.htm

http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/05.html (haven't looked at this one as much)

but IMHO, having used Mac OS X and XP, I would never want to use XP again. it's just like giving yourself paper cuts in odd places (jackass:themovie flashback)....

[jxyama]

here's one small example of annoying things about XP.

i log on. XP finds wireless network and/or external USB device. there's a pop up window that let's me know that the network was found and/or device was connected successfully...

WHO CARES?!

those pop ups don't seem to go away. i actually have to drag my mouse down and close them. (there probably is a way to suppress these popups, but i don't really care to find out.) if XP was able to find these things, just let me use them, no need to let me know they were found successfully! these messages stem from the days of old when windows weren't so good at finding those devices... well, now XP works better than that, just let me use the computer!

i highly recommend getting your hands on a mac with OS X and play around a bit. that's the best way to judge for yourself. the only thing i like better about XP than X is the built-in CD burner. i believe XP burner allows built-in multi-session burn, which is not quite the same in X and is rather complicated. (Yes, i know about disk copy trick.)

[dswoodley]

I agree with Jxyama, be your own judge. You know your needs the best. Try playing with one for a few days if possible. At least try and play around with a demo model.

[solvs]

I use XP at work, 2000 on my PC, have used every M$ OS since DOS, and much prefer the Mac OS. OS 8 used to give me issues, 9 was ok, but 10.2 (and to a lesser extent 10.1) are the best I've ever used. For some reason they just don't seem to give me as many headaches. I find myself very rarely saying "stupid computer" on Macs. I don't seem to have to fix as much. XP and 2000 don't crash as much, but they still have a lot of problems, DRM being the least of them. X isn't perfect (and I'm really looking forward to 10.3), but it's a lot easier to use, for me at least.

Your experiance may vary, but just go into any CompUSA and compare the 2 side-by-side. Try to do a couple of things you might normally use to see what is easier. You may be fine with XP, but seeing as how you came here, I'm thinking you aren't.

Can't give you any specifics without knowing what you do, but I have a feeling you will like it. :)

[rebelberg21]

I agree with most of the replies above.

XP is great improvement compared previous versions. Although i was very happy with Win2k.
(small note: if you go XP go XP PRO not HOME.....you probably already heard that before)


If you don't mind tweaking the computer, etc. I still feel with XP you have to get your hands a little dirty to get the optimal performance and stability. Like making sure there are few or no programs starting up at login...etc.....

Aside from the small annoyances that add up.....For me it's kind of like driving a car....it's the feel of it....

OS X feels like a BMW to me and XP feels like a Lexus....both nice....but different approaches...

Some things that I love about OS X that make it my fav....(in no particular order)
1.) The dock (I know in XP you can put shortcuts in the taskbar....but still not the same.)
2.)UNIX - great stability, the Terminal is a powerful thing...
3.)Quartz Extreme...I have a PC with XP about 6 inches from my Mac...and even with XP's luna theme...it can't compete with Quartz and Aqua...it just can't....not yet at least...

all in all...i agree with the people above...you really have to try it yourself.....

P.S.- alot of the what seems to be speed differences betweent he two OSes (with things like window resizing and moving..)is GREATLY improved with Panther....my friend has a recent build of Panther...can't wait...

[XnavxeMiyyep]

Okay, everyone has listed bad things about Windows XP. I agree with all of them, and I hate XP and love OS X. But now I'm gonna talk some of the disadvantages of OS X. There are not many, and most will probably be fixed. Software is a major issue; mainly games and business software. A lot of games have not come to Mac yet, and even if they have, they were just a quick port and not optomized. This is becoming less of a problem as time progresses, as more games are being rewritten for Mac. I don't know much about business software, but I heard a lot of business programs only run in Windows. (Windows emulation is extraordinarily slow) I play console games, and don't use business software, so they do not effect me. OS X has the iApps and Final Cut, which are probably some of my favorite software. Also, things such as scrolling and window resizing aren't as responsive as one would expect, not seriously major, but can be irritating. I heard that this has been fixed with OS X 10.3.

Those are the only major disadvantages I can really think of, but I believe that the advantages outweigh them.

[Fender2112]

I use XP on a Dell at work and OS X on an eMac at home. Here is what I feel to be a typical example of how much easier Mac OS is.

Task: Change your startup disk.

XP:
1. Right click on the "My Computer" icon.
2. Select "System Properties".
3. Click the "Advanced" tab.
4. Click "Startup and Recovery" button.
5. Select the boot system you want to use.
6. Decide if you would like to select your boot system each time you start or restart.
6a. Mark appropriate choice.
6b. Click "Apply" or "OK" (I can't remember if this step was actually involved but is typical of a Windows dialog box.)
7. Click "Start" menu.
8. Select "Shut Down".
9. Select "Restart".

Mac OS X:
1. Click on the "Apple" menu.
2. Select "System Preferences".
3. Click "Startup Disk".
3. Select the disk or volume you want to use.
4. Click "Restart".

I had to do this recently on my office computer and was baffled at how cryptic this was to do on XP. It was so bad that I had to post a plea (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35134) for help in another thread.

I work in both environments everyday and this is typical of how different it is to perform the same task.

Here's another example: Connect two computers so that you can share a cable modem and share files via an ethernet router. At work it took me about three hours. At home it took 30 minutes, maybe.

Need more? I 'm sure I can come up with a few.

Do the right thing. Once you do Mac, you won't go back. :D

[Independence]

i've used microsoft operating systems since dos (i was about 5 years old or so when i started getting an interest in computers). IMO, Windows 2000 Pro is the best of the MS operating systems. 9x/ME were garbage because of instability. XP was a step in the right direction. the new GUI was nice but i've reverted to the "classic" look. it just looks better. i've had only a little experience with Mac OS. system 7.5 through 9.1. not impressed. i've only got a "real life" look at Mac OS X for about 15 seconds before i had to do something else. fromt what i've seen of the screenshots, it looks like an awesome OS. i have yet to actually use it though.

[Macnewbie1]

Thanks to all those who replied. What I have got so far is that OS X is much better at handling day to day tasks and great for movie making (FCP etc). And i am not here because I am having problems with the XP (I have kind of got used to it...I am comfortable with tweaking my OS and as I mentioned before it has never even ONCE crashed on me since I have been using it when the RC1 came out... not even IE if you can set it right and not let it handle everything for you), I just want to know what is over on the other side. Since I have never used macs (except for may be Physics tutorials) so I must get my hands on OS X as most of you are suggesting hmmmm.

I don't really care for games (except for may be Age of Empires.....which i really like and is also available for Macs), I do care about Office apps (which are also available). Is there any difference in responsiveness, stability of Office X as compared to Office XP.......I use Office XP a lot and it is really important. Also, any word on Macromedia apps....are they stable on macs. I am not concerned about other apps like FCP and Photoshop (which I would like to use to edit my home movies and pictures....the Casio Exilim series is awesome BTW).

Thanks people for your time and experiences (moderators....Arn, anyone ......):p

PS: I am going to check the sites siggested by mac til death

[Abstract]

They're both great, and you're right about the "problems" of XP being exaggerated. I'm typing this on a WinPC using XP (like I always do), and the system never crashes. Programs crash, but rarely. Windows itself never crashes. I have never been forced to do a reboot of the system due to a crash, and I've been using WinXP since the day it came out. The only programs that crash are Mozilla (rarely), and IE (all the time). Sometimes I need to use IE because some webpages don't load well in Mozilla, usually sites that offer music previews like at HMV.co.uk. The songs don't come up in Mozilla, so I use IE. But this is only every 2 weeks or so, so no biggie.

Anyway, both OS's are great. The only problem with using a Windows computer are the spyware (get Ad-aware 6.0), the viruses (I get the Lovegate@mm and Mumu viruses, I think), and.........nope, that's it. You'll also have to watch out for DRM in the future, so switching now may be better for the long haul. Otherwise, that's it. It doesn't seem like a big deal to switch to me, but rather, its a matter of preference. The iApps are great value, and "ease of use" may be an issue, but that would depend on whether you were having trouble XP or not. I don't. Stability isn't an issue with me, but I still like MacOSX more. I really don't know why.

The "con" of Mac OSX is the speed. My AMD Duron 650MHz runs everything very zippy and fast, including all "scrolling" and window resizing in WinXP. I can even boot up in less than 25 to 30 seconds, while my brother can do it in around 15 to 20 seconds.

[acj]

Changing a startup disc is not a common task. Connecting two PC's took ME about a minute at work. First time I tried.

Originally posted by Fender2112
I use XP on a Dell at work and OS X on an eMac at home. Here is what I feel to be a typical example of how much easier Mac OS is.

Task: Change your startup disk.

XP:
1. Right click on the "My Computer" icon.
2. Select "System Properties".
3. Click the "Advanced" tab.
4. Click "Startup and Recovery" button.
5. Select the boot system you want to use.
6. Decide if you would like to select your boot system each time you start or restart.
6a. Mark appropriate choice.
6b. Click "Apply" or "OK" (I can't remember if this step was actually involved but is typical of a Windows dialog box.)
7. Click "Start" menu.
8. Select "Shut Down".
9. Select "Restart".

Mac OS X:
1. Click on the "Apple" menu.
2. Select "System Preferences".
3. Click "Startup Disk".
3. Select the disk or volume you want to use.
4. Click "Restart".

I had to do this recently on my office computer and was baffled at how cryptic this was to do on XP. It was so bad that I had to post a plea (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35134) for help in another thread.

I work in both environments everyday and this is typical of how different it is to perform the same task.

Here's another example: Connect two computers so that you can share a cable modem and share files via an ethernet router. At work it took me about three hours. At home it took 30 minutes, maybe.

Need more? I 'm sure I can come up with a few.

Do the right thing. Once you do Mac, you won't go back. :D

[coopdog]

I use XP at home and OS X at school and at home also. I like OS X compared to XP.

Think of them like houses.

OS X is a very nice designer like house that looks great inside and out, stable, flows nicely, and has great strong steel construction. Because of its artistic nature it doesn't need a bunch of unnessary finishes and added crap to make look "nice" thoes just get in the way and make the house not flow well.

XP is the cheap house. It looks ok on the outside but once you go in a go exploring you find yourself thinking, "Why is this here" and "wouldn't it be better if they put this over there." Soon you notice that the house that you thought looked ok when you first walked in, isn't as nice as you thought. Things you would use often are in odd places or hard to reach. The house was kind of built in pieces and slamed together and has bad construction and they used old and bad building techniques.

Then a storm comes along (a Virus) the OS X steel well built house isn't affected at all it stands up to the storm well but the XP house poor and outdated construction got damaged and now needs to be repaired.

Later you buy a new car, you take it home and realize it doesn't fit in your garage. So you have to put more money into the house to get your car to work with it.

Later your sitting around the house and things stop working, the lighing, phones, plumbing. You realize that all the patches you added on to fix problems only masked them and didn't solve the problem. Now your sitting there with no plumbing, lighting, or internet and your stuck. The house it falling apart and you think to yourself, "Maybe all thoes patches I use to fix all the problems with my house did more bad then good."


Soon you have to scrap the whole house, all your comforts, settings, tweeks and start all over again with a new house. Because the builders ****ing tricked you into thinking it was a great house. Then when the poor craftsmanship started to make the house unliveable the builder offered to patch the whole in the wall, duct tape the plubing, and splice the phone line back together all for free. Then it broke again, fixed for free, and again then for free again. The the whole house caves in on you and the builder backes away slowly saying that maybe you need to scrap the house and start all over again with a new house but the same blue prints and same builder. You agree.

The people in the os x house just laugh while they are able to listen to music, move their files, have a video chat, download legal music, and watch porn all at the same time with no problem, no patches, no annoying pop ups, no spywear, no exe. ****, no viruses. :rolleyes:


Man I have no idea where i was going with this, well it's late and i guess i just wanted to type or something, don't you hate pants?:p :confused:

[gwangung]

Originally posted by acj
Changing a startup disc is not a common task. Connecting two PC's took ME about a minute at work. First time I tried.

Quite correct. But I think the point is that Macs are probably a bit better in getting oddball tasks done (that's the experience I've had using both XP and OS X). And.....that no operating system will ever be free of those oddball tasks..

[Macnewbie1]

Originally posted by coopdog
I use XP at home and OS X at school and at home also. I like OS X compared to XP.

Think of them like houses.

OS X is a very nice designer like house that looks great inside and out, stable, flows nicely, and has great strong steel construction. Because of its artistic nature it doesn't need a bunch of unnessary finishes and added crap to make look "nice" thoes just get in the way and make the house not flow well.

XP is the cheap house. It looks ok on the outside but once you go in a go exploring you find yourself thinking, "Why is this here" and "wouldn't it be better if they put this over there." Soon you notice that the house that you thought looked ok when you first walked in, isn't as nice as you thought. Things you would use often are in odd places or hard to reach. The house was kind of built in pieces and slamed together and has bad construction and they used old and bad building techniques.

Then a storm comes along (a Virus) the OS X steel well built house isn't affected at all it stands up to the storm well but the XP house poor and outdated construction got damaged and now needs to be repaired.

Later you buy a new car, you take it home and realize it doesn't fit in your garage. So you have to put more money into the house to get your car to work with it.

Later your sitting around the house and things stop working, the lighing, phones, plumbing. You realize that all the patches you added on to fix problems only masked them and didn't solve the problem. Now your sitting there with no plumbing, lighting, or internet and your stuck. The house it falling apart and you think to yourself, "Maybe all thoes patches I use to fix all the problems with my house did more bad then good."


Soon you have to scrap the whole house, all your comforts, settings, tweeks and start all over again with a new house. Because the builders ****ing tricked you into thinking it was a great house. Then when the poor craftsmanship started to make the house unliveable the builder offered to patch the whole in the wall, duct tape the plubing, and splice the phone line back together all for free. Then it broke again, fixed for free, and again then for free again. The the whole house caves in on you and the builder backes away slowly saying that maybe you need to scrap the house and start all over again with a new house but the same blue prints and same builder. You agree.

The people in the os x house just laugh while they are able to listen to music, move their files, have a video chat, download legal music, and watch porn all at the same time with no problem, no patches, no annoying pop ups, no spywear, no exe. ****, no viruses. :rolleyes:


Man I have no idea where i was going with this, well it's late and i guess i just wanted to type or something, don't you hate pants?:p :confused:

LOL :D

That was a good one

[Schiffi]

Why not choose both?

http://www2.truman.edu/~jps137/web/osxXP.jpg

[Flynnstone]

I use a Mac (MDD 867 DP) and PCs at work (NT4, 2000 & XP)
I find I gravitate to the Mac. More confortable to use.

One thing I like about using the Mac is that I don't feel like a target because of viruses. On the PCs I run Nortons to keep it clean. I've been saved a few times by Norton. On the Mac I don't run any virus software.

I bought a miniDV camera. Plugged it into my Mac at work, it popped up iPhoto, made viewing simple. No drivers to install, brilliant. iMovie works with it simply as well. On my 2000 machine at home, I had to install drivers (do things in a specific order). It works but feels fragile.

My recommendation is go play with OS X for a while. You'll likely be impressed.
PS I will be ordering a Dual G5 soon for home.

[HasanDaddy]

Honestly

there is ZERO comparison between XP and OS X

I have a WinDoZe computer that I run GIS applications on --- I had ME installed, and I decided to upgrade to XP --- BAD IDEA

After upgrading to XP, the computer can hardly even launch itself

- when it does launch, it is so PAINFULLY slooooow

- and seriously, it does crash

I will admit though --- my father's Dell runs XP pretty good, but even on his computer, I haven't been able to:

1. Block pop-ups

2. multitask (XP can't multitask for NOTHING!)

3. and does go rather slow

OS X on the other hand is, and I don't meant to exaggerate, but seriously, if I could conceive of a perfect OS, it would've been OS X (or at least REALLY close to it!)

I think the best compliment I can give OS X is that I CONSTANTLY feel that I'm 100% in control of my computer, when I'm running OS X

However, with WinDoZe, I always feel that the OS is controlling me

Honestly MacNewbie --- I don't know what else I can tell you, but if you choose XP over OS X, you will be making a HORRIBLE mistake

[mim]

Most people seem to have issues with the virus's and spyware, etc, but for me it comes down mainly to interface issues - and stability.

Most people are saying XP is really quite good for stability - and yes it is an improvement (but not over 2000 IMHO). I think it comes down to what you do with your system though.

I haven't had Word crash on me in 2000/xp for no apparent reason. This was not an uncommon problem with earlier releases! But I use my machines a fair bit heavier than just word - and I think that's when the differences become clearer.

OSX will work when 2000/Xp doesn't. Lots of examples of that - mostly when dealing with photoshop/illustrator/other graphic packages. Now this may or may not be a software issue - but when high spec PC's can't raster a huge EPS, but the 1 year old G4 flies through it - well, you can give me all the benchmarks you want but the G4 will just do it. I believe that this comes down to the OS and how it handles multitasking/memory/etc. This example is not an isolated case.

Not many people do things like that all day long, so the other way OSX excels is with the GUI. XP tries to make things easy, but I keep finding more and more tasks are given "wizards" with cute little animated icons (have you tried a search on XP recently - bizzare) - these just get in the way for me. OSX seems to have the perfect solution - set up the system in a way that doesn't require these! And when you need to do a bit of hardcore meddling, you have the shell. Powerful and fast. Not like XP registry hacking at all.

The way OSX handles windows is much better to. The interface of Windows almost assumes that you will have 1 program open at a time, maximized. I use my Cad software like this *sometimes* - but only becuase it doesn't really connect with any other software. When I'm writing a report, I may be using 3 or 4 programs at the same time, typing, making images, surfing for references, playing some music, etc. The OSX standards using floating palettes, overlapping windows, etc are a multitaskers'
dream. Recent XP software (adobe things notably) has started to use this too - but it works much better in OSX (with the common menu bar, the dock, and expose when it comes!).

Sorry that this is so long - but just have a play with OSX at an Apple store...you'll see all this and more. It will probably seem strange and odd at first (seems that way to me too, I spend so long at work on XP boxes!) but if you made the transition to XP, you'll pick up OSX in a flash!

[Gaz]

Now I love OS X, I think it looks beautiful and is straight forward to use. I like the unix backend as you know it's built on proven technology.

...however, I find my pc to be a more versatile machine. I do lots and lots of development work. With windows I have the choice to work with all the technologies I want from .net 2 java (java is always a little behind on the mac if you need to be using the latest builds). One area I think many people overlook with web development is the limitations of choice with OS X. With my PC I can develop cgi, php, asp, jsps etc.. while you can host microsoft based technologies using virtual pc this isn't a realistic option when time is important.

The same is true with database technologies, I can run all the different instances of the databases I might need for various platforms.

Will this isn't directly selling XP over OS X I find my pc can't be beaten for development, need a different os? install vmware and you can have a virtual network on one pc, ideal for enterprise level stuff.

For me it's all about using the right tool for the job. XP for development, OS X for multimedia. General office work? Well I don't think it makes a huge difference, you have the tools available on each.

Ultimately I wouldn't give up my mac for anything, OS X is by far the best most appealing OS. But then again I won't give up my vaio with Windows XP either.

Hope this tries to be objective.

Gareth

[aafuss1]

Windows XP is, in my words easy to install,when setting up a new PC (I installed a copy of XP onto a computer for sale). Takes around 30 minutes to install. Its setup assistant is good-,youc an setup user accounts in XP then (easy to do).Activating is quick, if done over the web. Windows XP has built in file compression. And its 'show in groups' feature is quite good.Also XP can group multiple windows into the one button, saving taskbar space-like when you're in IE or Word with many windows open-reduces clutter. I watched this in action, with a video I found at:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/pro/evaluation/whyupgrade/wxpvswin98.asp

Apple should do something similar to that at the MS website link.
XP also has system restore-which Mac OSX lacks. Remote Assistance is one feature that Mac OSX doesn't have, and built in Remote Desktop with the Pro version. My copy is a academic version, its for Christmas (December 25 will be a long day for my PC-with the XP install). And XP's Add/Remove control panel is better than the 98 one-eay to add and remove software (centrallised unlike Mac OS x with its various types of application installs). Also XP has many internet games-for example internet checkers,hearts,etc along with solitaire,freecell,spider solitaire and Minesweeper.

Plus the interface looks great-nice and vibrant-using StyleXP you can change the visual style to myriads of ones you can get off the web-Mac OSX isn't that themable as XP is. And XP has Internet Connection Firewall. Back to the setup process-you can install XP while in Windows-you won't need to load a version of Windows. Mac OS X requires that you install Mac OS 9.1 just so OS X will install-tiresome and adds to time the install. XP's Network Setup wizard is quite simple to follow-easier than 98 and easier than manually doing it in Mac OS 9/X. I've used at XP work experience regularly.

[iTag]

Speaking from the prospective of the 3 os syndrome i happen to use windows xp Linux and Mac Osx i know your asking about XP and Mac OSX but thought id chuck in linux because its an intresting little os that isnt talked about much

The Pros and cons are simple people have said most of them already havent read all of the posts to many too long and mines long too.

Windows xp dose run better crashes only if you over do it ie too many things runing at once
For some reason it dosnt seem to want to see Mac Osx on a netwok dont know why
its got awful colours since i got mac colour just seems to stand out more on a Mac

Pro side though it dose work better dose run faster but i think 98se runs faster still.

Linux is the little verison of Mac OSX WITH NOT SO MANY NICE COLOURS OR OPTIONS... thats all there is to that. thats my opnion

OSX WHOOAOAAAA THIS IS THE ONE THIS IS BY FAR THE BEST GOD DAM OS IVE EVER HAD THE HONOUR OF USING

i even bought a mac so i could have it i use a g3 not a g4 and it works a treat
looks and feels great

the not so bad side of things with mac is i havent come across a problem yet with it the only thing that nagged me was the one button mouse and been able to do all sorts of neat things like delete things and they would go away no spare bits here or there also the way that the OS never anoyes you with ballons is good too the icons jump man they jump up and down to get your atttention its great mind you iam easily entertained, also the fact that it gets a little bit of use to using the dock nothing major just such a pleasent little thing to use love it..

HIGHLY RECOMEND A MAC WITH MAC OSX JAG

HIGHLY windows xp if you really want to play games though,

video stuff though go for Mac for sure

[jxyama]

Originally posted by aafuss1

And XP's Add/Remove control panel is better than the 98 one-eay to add and remove software (centrallised unlike Mac OS x with its various types of application installs).

i don't really care about commenting on personal preference, and aafuss1 made a number of valid points about XP, but i have to comment on this.

OS X, as far as i know, has three types of installs. icon type, where you just drag an item, package type you have to unpack and ones using installer program. the last one is getting rarer, i believe, as most apps are now packaged into one icon for easy install and easy deletion.

i'm not sure if centralized app install is a good thing or not. for one, windows require modification of registry and dll collection, so app install has to be centralized. i don't know about XP, but for this very reason of system level modifications on every install, app removal is hardly ever complete on prev. versions of windows. we all know that you cannot simply drag a file or folder with an app to trash in windows to remove the application. this is another reason windows become "weird" over time because system files are being modified every time you install anything.

[sparky76]

I use XP and Mac OS X at home and Win2000Pro at work.
Don't believe anyone who says XP is slow - it does eat far more resources than previous Win versions, but new hardware is more than fast enough to handle it. Definitely needs 512MB to be comfortable, though.
OS X I am fairly new to. There is some learning curve, but nothing too tricky, and then it is certainly easier to use everyday.
For example, every time I reboot the XP machine (rarely) I have to reconfigure the connection to my wireless router, whereas with the Mac, it is ready and configured automatically.
If you want to play games, the PC is miles better, but for everyday use, I turn without exception to the Mac.

[benixau]

one thing alot of people leave out: menu bar.

I was recently on two weeks holiday from school (win2K network). This means that i am on my mac for two weeks and only my mac.
when i got back to school i realised how useful it was to be able to move the mouse to the same spot on the screen every time and have the relevant menus there.

it is one of the ideas that makes macos more logical to use. no nesecarily easier, but logical (which for all but the most insanse people translates to easier).

[whawho]

Originally posted by Macnewbie1
I do care about Office apps (which are also available). Is there any difference in responsiveness, stability of Office X as compared to Office XP.......I use Office XP a lot and it is really important. Also, any word on Macromedia apps....are they stable on macs.

I use both Office and Macromedia Studio at work and I would say honestly that Office (for me) tends to have more problems on Macs than on windows. Seems like there are more crashes with word etc, than I would have using office on windows. But since I only use office for word, the occasional spread sheet and power point docs this really doesn't bother me. Office runs OK.

Macromedia Studio runs about the same on Macs. I use Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash and Freehand on a regular basis and I can honestly say it runs about the same on both platforms I really haven't had any problems using Macromedia programs on my mac.

[dcb]

My experience with OSX is quite different than everyone elses I suppose. Applications unexpectantly quit ALL OF THE TIME, especially FLASH MX. I have to repair permissions on a bi-weekly basis and I have had to reinstall OSX every month...all of this at the recommendation of Apple Care. It runs a lot slower than XP and if I get brazen enough to shut down the computer, I might as well take a nap to wait for it to boot...especially if I connect to the network.

With all of that said and done, I don't like XP either. I don't use it, but at my office, we have two machines operating XP and it seems as if connections to the network printer fail on a weekly basis. (I hate having to re-Add the same printer over and over again). I prefer 2000.

With OSX, your investment is disk warrior because it requires so much maintenance to keep it running smoothly

With XP, your investment is an anti-virus, for obvious reasons.

[whawho]

Originally posted by dcb
My experience with OSX is quite different than everyone elses I suppose. Applications unexpectantly quit ALL OF THE TIME, especially FLASH MX. I have to repair permissions on a bi-weekly basis and I have had to reinstall OSX every month...all of this at the recommendation of Apple Care. It runs a lot slower than XP and if I get brazen enough to shut down the computer, I might as well take a nap to wait for it to boot...especially if I connect to the network.

With all of that said and done, I don't like XP either. I don't use it, but at my office, we have two machines operating XP and it seems as if connections to the network printer fail on a weekly basis. (I hate having to re-Add the same printer over and over again). I prefer 2000.

With OSX, your investment is disk warrior because it requires so much maintenance to keep it running smoothly

With XP, your investment is an anti-virus, for obvious reasons.

I have to ask... do you run a lot of haxies on your Mac or any kind of Themeing hacks? Reason I ask is because I have been running Jaguar on my Mac for well over 8 months without the problems you speak of. Not saying that your aren't having these problems I just don't think it's the norm. If you are running a lot of hacks then that might be the reason you're having a lot of problems... Flash MX for me never quits unexpectantly ...

[dcb]

Originally posted by whawho
I have to ask... do you run a lot of haxies on your Mac or any kind of Themeing hacks? Reason I ask is because I have been running Jaguar on my Mac for well over 8 months without the problems you speak of. Not saying that your aren't having these problems I just don't think it's the norm. If you are running a lot of hacks then that might be the reason you're having a lot of problems... Flash MX for me never quits unexpectantly ...

No hacks. As a matter of fact, I am scared to install anything. We (applecare and myself) are trying to see if it could be a hardware issue...I just got my iBook back 10 minutes ago with a new hard drive, so we will see if that is the issue.

Maybe it was a hardware issue! Been using my iBook for a while and everything I wrote is no longer true! I'll give it a few days, then we will see.

[breadboy]

I've been using computers since kindergarden (I'm 19 now) and have used lots of computers. From the Apple 2e and early LCII and

III's on up through pc's running dos win 3.11, 95,98, me (which is quite honestly the worst operating system ever created), 2k,

and currently xp. I haven't had much experience in the way of apple's for quite awhile now, but here are the reasons that I think

Windows XP and PC's in general are the best choice (bear in mind that I mean the best choice for me, not necessarily for the

person who disagrees with me :) )

First let me get my system specs out there so you have something to compare all this too:

Athlon 2700+
Asus A7N8X Deluxe
Corsiar 333 DDR 2 x 512
Ati Radeon 9700 Pro
Adaptec 39160 SCSI
Segate 18.4 gig 15000 rpm 3.6 ms
Western Digital 80 gig 8 mb cache
Audigy 2 Platinum ex
Vantec 470 watt Power supply
Windows XP Pro

Allright onto the good stuff :)

1. Windows XP is fast
My normal boot up time (after bios and scsi bootup) is about 32 seconds. As I have it loaded after login it takes about 20-30

seconds to get it to a regular operating mode, (after alllllll of my start up programs are loaded) but as soon as the start bar

appears at about 5-10 seconds its pretty much usable even if the processor is being taxed by loading programs a bit.

If you add that all up that's about 60 seconds to a complete running system with a ton of programs loaded (including windows

blinds which skins the windows and the start bar, and norton which isn't exact optimized for speed), and that is hard to beat.

2. Windows XP is customizable
My biggest complaint with the mac has always been the complete lack of customization. I can't speak for OSX as much (although I'm

fairly sure it hasn't deaviated from the course of earlier operating systems) but earlier systems had about as much customizing

potential as a IIe :) (only kidding, they have slighty more than a IIe) With XP I can literally change everything from the way it

starts up to the way it looks (with windows blinds I can make it look and run like beOS, OSX, Linux, etc.) and feels down to the

very heart of it. Yeah it's not linux, but its closer than any mac OS i've ever used. I love being able to mess with individual

drivers, system files, registry files, etc. I can turn off and on pretty much any function in services (part of the reason my pc

starts so quickly), and the list goes on and on. One of the biggest complaints I hear on the apple commercials is that things

don't run nice and pretty ( my pc won't work with my digital camera, my pc has a blue screen that pops up, my pc crashes all the

time, etc), but this is purely a lack of skill with windows. If you want to pick up a computer and learn it any not know anything

about it, mac still wins, but if you want to customize like crazy (and not jump off the linux bridge) XP wins.

3. Windows XP runs more software
Boy this one is big. Apple has office now, but that still doesn't make up for the thousands of programs you miss by using a mac.

Here is a list of programs I use that arn't available for Mac:

Guitar Pro
Line 6 Guitar Port software
MYIE2
Media Center 9
BayCheck Pro
DFX 6
GetRight
The Object Desktop suite of tools (windows blinds, desktop x, etc)
Sound Forge 6
Tweak XP pro (yes I know this is a pc customization tool, but boy if apple had an equivilant to this for basic tweaking)
Shooting Star
Win RAR
Nero 6
Win ISO
Exact Audio Copy
DisKeeper 8.0 Pro

And all of these are just from browsing my start menu. Mac's have some good stuff, but with such a small market share the

incentive to create programs doesn't seem to be there for a good deal of software developers.

4. Windows XP is stable
I have had my windows xp systems crash before (and I reinstall the OS every once and awhile, usually on a whim), but rarely. I can

say without reservation that this system is very very stable. I do remember back in the old days of win 95 though where you had to restart several times before things would really start working, and I can say that XP is nothing like that. The Kernal is based on NT versus ME and earlier which ran on good old DOS. If stability is a concern, I can tell you that with XP, and fairly new hardware its not much of a worry.

5. Windows XP has a better Internet experience.
I can tell you this, I have used regular IE, Opera, Firebird, and MYIE2, and MYIE2 makes such a difference that it propels the pc (the only OS you can run it on) to the best browsing OS.

MYIE2 is IE on something strong to say the least. It uses IE as a rendering engine (ensureing 100% page compatibility unlike firebird, the next in line), but from there its a totally different experience. You can use mouse gestures, alias, the address bar works as a google bar, as well as a search bar (ex. if I type in "eb car" it searches ebay for the word car, if i type in "we 98765" it searches weather.com for the zip code 98765) and its all customizable. The program has popup and ad blocking built in, translation services built in as well, not to mention some of my favorite custom features (display linkage url, enable right click, text highlighter, up a directory, view link source, a recently closed tab button to go back to any of the last 20 or so pages you browsed, and view source which shows the source of all the frames and anything else in a webpage.) I can't stress enough how great this browser really is, its faster and more compatible than Firebird, and of course outshines all the others biggies (IE,Mozilla,Opera).

In this case its pretty easy for me to say that XP wins in this regard, just because mac doesnt have the the program ported to it.

6. Windows and PC's arnt going anywhere.

Mac's are some interesting stuff and one day way off in the future, I might own one. Now however, with all of a 2.3 or so percent share of the market Mac's arn't doing too well. Apple with its new OSX Jag and G5 out looks like it might do something cool in the forseeable future, but honestly it's future in this market is somewhat in doubt. 2.3 percent is a very very very small market share. You could make the best product in the world, and if only 2.3 percent of people buy it, it doesn't matter how wonderful it was.

Factor in these few snippits

1. Apple is loseing the educational market (This is really, really going to hurt)
2. Apple isn't doing that wondefully in performance when compared with the PC. (look at all the commotion with the g5 performance)
3. People can get Pc's running windows xp for a much cheaper price than they can buy a Mac running OSX
4. Windows is becomming easier and easier to use.
5. Microsoft (love them or hate them) devotes almost all of their attention to Pc related software
6. Apple has been losing their market share for some years now (down to 2.3 percent last I heard)

Things just arn't looking that much up for Apple in general in regards to their computer line (Ipod is another story :) )


Alright so after all of this, I use a PC because its compatible, stable, customizable,not going to die, and several other things. Wether this fits you or not however is for you to decide.

[dcb]

Wow, you sure did write a novel there! You make some valid points....but check your stats. I think you might be mistaken about some of Apple's marketshare. The thread below talks about that.

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37202

The biggest thing I would disagree with you about is Apple's future, Eventhough I have been called a troll, I will say that Apple isn't going anywhere...but that is another discussion in itself.

[breadboy]

as far as the stats i read the 2.3 percent mabye a month or 2 ago, so it isnt that dated. It was from a news source too so I would take that over apple :) As far as education, I've heard parents are really complaining that kids are using mac's when almost everyone has a pc and schools are starting to think it over. If Apple loses the Education market (which it probably will eventually because pc's are much cheaper) it looks pretty much like a nail in the coffin.

As far as Apples future, its in doubt if they don't do better than its new g5. They have to get that 3 ghz version out really fast if they want to keep up on amd and intel who aparently are going to dig the trench even deeper with their 64 bit offerings

[jayb2000]

I have OS X running on an old 400mhz G3 with 512mb ram versus a almost new Compaq laptop with P4 2ghz and 512mb ram running XP

Now, the XP system is obviously faster, its 3 years newer, but I use the iMac for everything except a few games and work.

I have been using computers for 20 years, from Apple ][e to Digital mainframes, HP-UX, Sun Solaris, a Mac Plus running system 6, NT, 98, blah blah blah.

If you want to use it as a personal computer, for surfing the web, digital photography, music, etc. get the mac, it will cause you far less frustration (just buy a 2 button mouse, that does drive me nuts). But in the past year or so of running the iMac, I have never had to fix permissions, restore the system, recover a lost document, etc. It just works.

For those that pointed out the "features" of XP, including system rollback, auto-recover, etc. Maybe if MS put some of their 45+ BILLION into development on the software in the first place, they would not need those features!!

If you want to do gaming, then get a PC or PlayStation/xBox/cube, etc.

[rebelberg21]

yeah, the good old marketshare number again.....

actually every month Apple's Marketshare goes down....maybe it's a count down?

I think the projected marketshare at the end of the year is -4.0.....lol

Forget that marketshare stuff....or at least don't worry about it.....it's not what people make it out to be.....

Markeshare doesn't give you an accurate figure of current user %, it's only the percent of the market in a fiscal year.

So we won't see an accurate marketshare # again till Feb or so.

And the SUPPOSED low marketshare # hasn't effected the stock at all...not lately at least.....it's gone from $12-over $23 today......

Bottom line: Pc's aren't going anywhere granted....but neither is APPLE......


Side note...Window's blinds suck IMHO....my friend with XP Pro has used the OS X theme on it....and does not feel like OS X at all.....by no means a replacement for it

[dcb]

Originally posted by rebelberg21
So we won't see an accurate marketshare # again till Feb or so.

And the SUPPOSED low marketshare # hasn't effected the stock at all...not lately at least.....it's gone from $12-over $23 today......



You are not saying that the apple stocks went up $11 today alone are you? A stock going up 11 dollars over the course of a decade or two really isn't all that impressive.

[rebelberg21]

the stock went up from $12-23 over the past few months.....

it had dropped to $12 sometime early in spring.....

and it's bouncing back up......

[AtlantaGuy]

Macnewbie1 -

Talk is good... doing is better. Please consider investing some time hanging out at the Apple Store just minutes from you if you haven't already. I've never found the people there to be stereotypical pushy salesmen or overbearing Mac zealots. Its a very low key environment, but one I trust you'll find incredibly helpful as you consider your options.

http://www.apple.com/retail/southpoint/

[HasanDaddy]

The Mac stores are EXCELLENT places to try out any software/hardware and the support there is TOP NOTCH --- best salesmen in the world!

as far as people who are constantly having applications unexpectedly quit, I suggest downloading the updates --- not just OS X updates, but updates to the specific software itself, to prevent such things

[jxyama]

Originally posted by dcb
You are not saying that the apple stocks went up $11 today alone are you? A stock going up 11 dollars over the course of a decade or two really isn't all that impressive.

if you care, you have to remember that stocks split. so don't judge by the share price alone, esp. if you are looking at a long horizon like a decade.

[dcb]

Still off topic...sorry poster

I just wanted that post to be clarified. You will find that I like to make sure people don't give false or misleading information. (And no I don't think rebelberg was trying to mislead anyone!) And you are right jxyama. Thanks

[breadboy]

Originally posted by rebelberg21
yeah, the good old marketshare number again.....

actually every month Apple's Marketshare goes down....maybe it's a count down?

I think the projected marketshare at the end of the year is -4.0.....lol

Forget that marketshare stuff....or at least don't worry about it.....it's not what people make it out to be.....

Markeshare doesn't give you an accurate figure of current user %, it's only the percent of the market in a fiscal year.

So we won't see an accurate marketshare # again till Feb or so.

And the SUPPOSED low marketshare # hasn't effected the stock at all...not lately at least.....it's gone from $12-over $23 today......

Bottom line: Pc's aren't going anywhere granted....but neither is APPLE......


Side note...Window's blinds suck IMHO....my friend with XP Pro has used the OS X theme on it....and does not feel like OS X at all.....by no means a replacement for it


As far as the market share, yeah that can go up and down, but apples falling out with education is going to hit them very very hard. The less than stunning G5 as well could turn out to be a bit of a flop, depending on if they can bring the 3 ghz (and if it preforms well) really fast.

As for windows blinds, you have to buy the whole object desktop pack to make it really work, windows blinds just skins the interface, other programs in the suite make it operate like a real osx machine. Also there are (many) different versions of osx so check around on the wincustomization site.

[mim]

Originally posted by breadboy
As far as the market share, yeah that can go up and down, but apples falling out with education is going to hit them very very hard. The less than stunning G5 as well could turn out to be a bit of a flop, depending on if they can bring the 3 ghz (and if it preforms well) really fast.

As for windows blinds, you have to buy the whole object desktop pack to make it really work, windows blinds just skins the interface, other programs in the suite make it operate like a real osx machine. Also there are (many) different versions of osx so check around on the wincustomization site.

This market share thing is a doozy just stay away from it, please.

Fact: The number of Mac's sold keeps going up.
Fact: Dump pc boxes used as cash registers, google chache machines, door stops, etc are counted in "marketshare". This means very little to someone - for example - who is developing a 3d shockwave like rendere, or a sound editing program, or a digital picture viewer, or a....you get the idea. It also should mean very little to anyone using their computer as a creative or learning tool. Mac's do not lack at all for any kind decent everyday use software.

Also, I don't want this to sound like a flame - but the OSX window mods don't act anything at all like the real OSX. For the benifit of the original poster this should be made quite clear.

If you really want to mod and tinker, then the Mac is still your best platform. Get a copy of Yellowdog linux - you can run OSX and Linux at the same time! Mod a KDE desktop to your heart's contect, and still burn DVD's. Or if you want to tinker like a network hacker, you can dual boot with a *bsd - they easliy configure to suit your mac hardware. But you don't even need these - forget customising the pretty icons and go right to the heart of the matter - get into darwin and play around in there. There's so much more to life than editing icons!

[aafuss1]

XP has a integrated ipSec client which OSX may have one-see http://www.tomshardware.com/network/20030904/index.html
Also XP can download updated setup files-that include the latest fixes and updates during its setup process-Mac OS X's installer doesn't have this, you must download updates/fixes through Software update after the install.
Does Mac OS X let you have pictures as folder icons, like XPc an do?

XP has a files and transfer settings wizard-which Mac OS X doesn't have, yet. It allows you to transfer files and settings from one computer to the new installed copy of XP.
See:http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp.asp for a detailled look at XP
and http://www.apple.com/macosx for information about OSX

[mmmbop]

macnewbie1 -

There's a review of the pre-release version of Macromedia Studio MX 2004 over at http://www.macuser.co.uk which by all accounts brings improvements to stability and responsiveness across all the apps.

I'm writing this post on a Windows NT4 (work) machine. An old OS and it really shows. Using it makes me want to weep incessantly. I find XP's interface too busy.

MARK

[twentyeight7]

Originally posted by acj
Changing a startup disc is not a common task. Connecting two PC's took ME about a minute at work. First time I tried.

now i would concider my self a windows power user i know all the ins and outs of xp but networking sucks in XP. it took FOREVER to hook up my 4 computers. 1 of each xp,2000,98,linux one setting would work then it would bump off the last computer i set up fit must have taking me about 4-5 hours to get everything going and about once a month now i need to turn all my computers off at the same time and reboot the network because it gets so bogged down and it just stops working all togeather

I CANT WAIT FOR MY G5 TO COME THEN I WONT HAVE TO DEAL WITH WINDOWS NETWORKING

Chris

[Bluefusion]

I'll share my thoughts.. admittedly I'm a bit biased as I've owned Macs since I was 6 years old, but my school has hundreds of PCs which I use daily, so I do have quite a bit of experience with both systems.

The main thing about the Mac OS is that you ALWAYS have felt completely in control of your system. OS X extends this to such a degree that even a brief stint with Windows is really kind of awful. No viruses, nothing short of a few minor app crashes (very few), and NO WIZARDS to "help" you... the Mac OS takes care of itself, and lets you do what you want to do.

Basically, with the Macintosh you can tell that the system was designed from the beginning to be useable and to make sense to anyone who used it. Even tasks you've never done before follow pretty standard rules and so you can usually figure out quite easily how to do something. On the other hand, Windows was (and still is, regardless of what people say about XP) rooted in an arcane, ridiculous system called DOS (just because it's a standard doesn't mean it's a good one!). XP has shed most of DOS itself, but the mindset of that hideous black and white OS is still buried in there. Things just don't make sense in XP the way they do in OS X, because the system was first designed to be used by total geeks and THEN redesigned to make some sense to newbies. It's a dramatic contrast, really... Apple has always made the Mac system "for the rest of us" and never needed crap piled on to "help" new users... while every version of Windows gets "friendlier" and more intrusive.

Add to that the Palladium/TPCA/DRM situation in Microsoft's products, and compare it to Apple's DRM at the iTunes music store--everyone gets what they want, and no one feels like a criminal. In nearly every aspect of building an operating system, Apple seems to be able to prove time and time again that they can do it BETTER than Microsoft--it just requires a little bit of THINKING (not just ripping off other companies' ideas).

There are so many minor niceties to the Mac OS that it just feels much more mature, much more evolved in every aspect. Things like not having to type in full URLs if they end in .com (apple/G5, etc), being able to drag and drop documents from any program's open window without having to first find the original (via Proxy icons built into titlebars), being able to quickly and easily view multiple programs' progress or current tasks at the same time (through the overlapping window nature of the Mac OS, something that Windows implicitly goes against), and having everything just WORK...

Mac OS X 10.3 (I'm "testing" it) is so close to the perfect operating system that I simply can't imagine what more I would want to change. It's honestly that good.

There are so many reasons to use a Mac, but the best way, as has been said, is to wait until Panther comes out and play with it on a G5. If the system doesn't speak for itself, use Windows... but you'll be missing out on something unbelievable.

[Bluefusion]

Originally posted by aafuss1
XP has a integrated ipSec client which OSX may have one-see http://www.tomshardware.com/network/20030904/index.html
Also XP can download updated setup files-that include the latest fixes and updates during its setup process-Mac OS X's installer doesn't have this, you must download updates/fixes through Software update after the install.
Does Mac OS X let you have pictures as folder icons, like XPc an do?

XP has a files and transfer settings wizard-which Mac OS X doesn't have, yet. It allows you to transfer files and settings from one computer to the new installed copy of XP.
See:http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp.asp for a detailled look at XP
and http://www.apple.com/macosx for information about OSX

So the fact that XP can download its 30 updated files during install is a difference from Apple's OS downloading 2 or 3 files (or less) AFTER the install? Yeah, it's a difference... fewer files!

And unlike Windows, the Mac updates are seldom required and almost never imperative.... try going three months without updating Windows! :)

"Files and Settings Transfer Wizard"? Go to ~/Library/Preferences/ on the old system, and drag it to ~/Library Preferences/ on the new. There's your "Wizard" on the Mac OS. Having a dedicated Wizard to perform what amounts to a simple task on the Mac should not in any way be construed as a feature!

Pictures as folder icons? ANY FREAKING IMAGE YOU WANT can be pasted on an icon--any icon, anywhere, even critical system files. The system doesn't care. Mac OS has been able to do this since System 7. That's Windows 3.11 era.

Please don't mess with things you don't know about.. it's just not a good idea.

Next...? :)

[Bluefusion]

What's with all the extra returns? Sheesh, had to clean 'em up for ya ;)

Originally posted by breadboy
1. Windows XP is fast
My normal boot up time (after bios and scsi bootup) is about 32 seconds. As I have it loaded after login it takes about 20-30 seconds to get it to a regular operating mode, (after alllllll of my start up programs are loaded) but as soon as the start bar appears at about 5-10 seconds its pretty much usable even if the processor is being taxed by loading programs a bit.

If you add that all up that's about 60 seconds to a complete running system with a ton of programs loaded (including windows blinds which skins the windows and the start bar, and norton which isn't exact optimized for speed), and that is hard to beat.

So by hacking your system, you've cut down on your boot time. OK...

BeOS booted in 6 seconds, but I would never say it was a "fast OS"...

Granted, OS X takes a while to boot, but the last time I restarted was 4 months ago, and that was for a security update (Panther will not require reboots after them). I don't see your hacked system being able to start up quickly as being an advantage of the OS. I could turn off a lot of crap in OS X, but I don't feel the need to.

2. Windows XP is customizable
........
I can make it look and run like beOS, OSX, Linux, etc.) and feels down to the
very heart of it. Yeah it's not linux, but its closer than any mac OS i've ever used. I love being able to mess with individual
drivers, system files, registry files, etc. I can turn off and on pretty much any function in services (part of the reason my pc starts so quickly), and the list goes on and on. One of the biggest complaints I hear on the apple commercials is that things don't run nice and pretty ( my pc won't work with my digital camera, my pc has a blue screen that pops up, my pc crashes all the time, etc), but this is purely a lack of skill with windows.

You shouldn't have to LEARN how to get a computer to work properly. This is just faulty logic. Macs work, and by your own admission PCs "require skill". This is hardly a fair fight, now is it? :)

As for "loving to hack registries"... what do you DO with your computer? Do you have deadlines? Projects? Believe me, when you want a system to just function normally so that you can get your work done, hacking registry files is far from your mind. And we're talking about BASIC Windows here, not Windows for Uber-Geeks...

And don't for a minute fool yourself into thinking that skinning your windows makes it "run like MacOS, BeOS, or Linux". There's no comparison (and believe me, I've used virtually every Windowblinds package I can find... they all suck, to put it bluntly.)


3. Windows XP runs more software
Here is a list of programs I use that arn't available for Mac:

Guitar Pro
Line 6 Guitar Port software
MYIE2
Media Center 9
BayCheck Pro
DFX 6
GetRight
The Object Desktop suite of tools (windows blinds, desktop x, etc)
Sound Forge 6
Tweak XP pro (yes I know this is a pc customization tool, but boy if apple had an equivilant to this for basic tweaking)
Shooting Star
Win RAR
Nero 6
Win ISO
Exact Audio Copy
DisKeeper 8.0 Pro

There are equivalents for all of these on the Mac. Nero? Give me a break! Try Toast Titanium, maybe...

Tweak XP shouldn't be on that list and you know it. Have you had ResEdit all these years? Didn't think so.

MyIE may have a lot of features, but all of those features are in Mac browsers (OmniWeb, Safari, Mozilla), and most people use whatever suits them best. Personally, I find Safari a lot more friendly than any other browser... and MyIE is SO DAMN UGLY! What's with the hundreds of brightly-colored buttons? I thought Windows was the serious, "professional" OS?

SoundForge is nothing compared to Peak...

And I'm literally laughing my ass off at Media Center... ever hear of iTunes and QuickTime Pro? Award-winning, best-in-class software that YOU DON'T HAVE? (Windows QT sucks) Keep using Media Center.. just keep telling yourself that it's a viable substitute... I'm still laughing :)

Most software on that list is CD-related, all of which can be done with a single app called Toast.

There is a lot of guitar software on the Mac... maybe not everything, but there's certainly enough. The point being that everything you've listed has a viable and usually superior alternative on the Mac!

4. Windows XP is stable
It's gotten better, I'll give it that, but it's still far from perfect. I use XP every day and it still has problems (around 70-100 computers, with a professional IT staff to take care of them). We have ONE Mac at school, and no one needs to do anything with it. No patches, no fixing.. every once in a while I'll download the tri-monthly point update if I feel like it...

5. Windows XP has a better Internet experience.
I can't stress enough how great this browser really is, its faster and more compatible than Firebird, and of course outshines all the others biggies (IE,Mozilla,Opera).

Again, most of those features were already on the Mac, and that's got to be the ugliest browser I've ever seen (though full of features, I'll give it that)... do you really use all of them, though? It still has IE/Windows bookmarking, which is sad, really...

6. Windows and PC's arnt going anywhere.
1. Apple is loseing the educational market (This is really, really going to hurt)
2. Apple isn't doing that wondefully in performance when compared with the PC. (look at all the commotion with the g5 performance)
3. People can get Pc's running windows xp for a much cheaper price than they can buy a Mac running OSX
4. Windows is becomming easier and easier to use.
5. Microsoft (love them or hate them) devotes almost all of their attention to Pc related software
6. Apple has been losing their market share for some years now (down to 2.3 percent last I heard)


Apple's not going anywhere either... they have a very dedicated market sector and fanbase that Microsoft wishes they had (but never will). Apple's performance is superior, and the ranting was completely ridiculous (spl at Haxial is one of the most uninformed, stubborn people I've ever had the pleasure of talking to)... it has been PROVEN that every reason given for the G5 being "slower" was completely false, and that the system IS at the moment still the fastest.

Apple's hold on the education market has certainly fallen quite a bit, but they've got a lot of pro customers to take care of too, and they've done just fine with that.

Microsoft doesn't make pro-level software like Soundtrack, Shake, Final Cut Pro, or DVD Studio Pro... Microsoft doesn't invent wholly new concepts spun off of existing networks like iChat AV... Microsoft doesn't revolutionize a stagnant market with products like the iPod...

Apple's success is vital to the entire computer industry, whether you realize it or not. There is little to no innovation on anyone's side but Apple's, and their OS is STILL the most original, most inviting, and most powerful for getting work done.

Why do you think everyone copies Apple's designs? Why do you think we Mac users keep claiming that "Apple had that first", etc? Because companies use Apple's innovation to produce their own products.

Microsoft sinks money into Apple whenever they start going under because Microsoft NEEDS them... they are driving the industry forward and without them, very little would ever truly evolve. You really think that a company with that much power in the industry (far more than their puny marketshare numbers would attest to) wouldn't make the BEST damn OS on the planet...? Think about it.

Windows will always be the "cheap way out"--but no one ever got anywhere by following others.

There will always be endless droves of PCs, but by the same token the Macintosh will always be in a class of its own.

[billyboy]

Originally posted by breadboy
as far as the stats i read the 2.3 percent mabye a month or 2 ago, so it isnt that dated. It was from a news source too so I would take that over apple :) As far as education, I've heard parents are really complaining that kids are using mac's when almost everyone has a pc and schools are starting to think it over. If Apple loses the Education market (which it probably will eventually because pc's are much cheaper) it looks pretty much like a nail in the coffin.

As far as Apples future, its in doubt if they don't do better than its new g5. They have to get that 3 ghz version out really fast if they want to keep up on amd and intel who aparently are going to dig the trench even deeper with their 64 bit offerings

Sorry to pick your points off, but...

There are lies, damn lies and statistics in newspapers!

Maybe if Apple had 2.something % market share of a market of 10 it would be bad news, but of a market that is growing by the million year on year? The figures dont exactly add up to a crisis, especially in the context of Apple´s broadening horizons with hardware peripherals like iPod etc.

10% of computers in use in the world are Macs. A bit like Rolls Royces and Duracell batteries, they go on and on and are far too stylish for doorstops and rubbish bins.

I believe Mercedes has a lower share of its market than Apple has of its, based on recent annual sales. Shall we start digging a grave for those German geniuses too?

Placing your aside about "PCs are cheaper" in the same sentence as parents complaining about the IT situation at schools is quite inspired. Read this http://forgetcomputers.com/~jdroz/03.html and send it to every headmaster you know. Insist that he gives it to the head of his IT department and insist that he or she follows the criteria for cost assessment of a computer system in that school. It sort of makes the "Macs are dear" myth sound faintly ridiculous, and would certainly give money conscious parents a lot to complain about as regards little Johnny being slowly forced to inhabit a PC world.

The other myth is Megahertz, yawn yawn.

This thread was about OSX v XP and for the vast majority of dumbass users like myself, it doesnt really matter a jot what is quoted under the hood of a PC - if OSX 10.3. means all G4 and some G3 Macs can go noticeably faster and work even smarter, retaining that comfortable user-friendly mystery-free feeling, then that is good enough of an upgrade while this G5 thingy takes off.

And for the first wave of hardened power users who need the best there is, then with a G5 they now have a machine with the potential to be developed to who knows where, even to a sexy sounding 3GHz, which BTW is good for Windows users because there is now added pressure on Intel and co to keep the Mac v PC tradition going and produce a 6GHz chip. That sort of push ahead should make the PC hardware capable of dragging the burgeoning code monster that is Windows along at the same speed as Panther. :)

[Jagga]

Check out a link within this same site regarding views from a PC user and other mac users, benefits of price and applications....I think the thread is called "What makes you proud of your mac" actually give it a full read.

Of note imagine cycling through all of the windows of a single application NOT just all open windows like that on, well, Windows.
Example open alot of applications, and different windows on XP (like 4 different IE windows, Word windows, Excel windows etc) then when you Alt-Tab you'll have to browse through all of the open windows, and you CANNOT browse through windows of a specific applications (ex IE ).

Good luck on whatever you decide.

[jxyama]

been thinking about this stuff ever since i learned how to use iMovie in a matter of few hours...

i think the reason many people are so price conscious about computers is because it's seen as a tool, not a "lifestyle" accessory. cars are more of the latter - what you drive, how the car looks, etc. matter a lot more to many people and that's why price is not the biggest factor. afterall, bmw, honda and kia will (usually) get you to the place you want to go the same, but each cater to different markets. even if bmw, honda and kia has the same horsepower, options, ameneties, etc., they will be priced differently and each has their set of customers.

computers, on the other hand, isn't like that. it's a tool... for most people, it's a typewriter/checkbook replacement. or a browser/email box. as such, price is a major factor. the brand of computer doesn't really matter as long as the paper is written, spreadsheet is keeping your accounts on record and you can check your emails. (on that account, it's amazing how much money M$ makes on just churning out newer "versions" of Office one after another when all it amounts to is a glorified typewriter/checkbook/slide maker.) (yes, it's a simplification, but try to see my point here...)

Usually.

however, after using iApps, my idea of computers as a tool kind of changed. iMovie is amazing - it lets me do things i thought no ordinary consumer computer would/should be able to do. iPhoto is great - i can easily organize my photos from quite a long time ago in a very neat and beautiful fashion. and they were really, really easy to learn! i feel now that iApps are not simply "tools."

i think these are truly lifestyle accessories. and for that reason, i think price doesn't matter as much to me anymore. i want to be able to make movies. i want to be able to turn piles of old cluttering photos into a nice album. i want to have easy access to 3000 songs. because these functions are not what i consider to be tools-level, i want to do it in flying colors. i want it to be easy and intuitive. and i believe apple lets me do just that... (notice i never said windows machines can't do all the above - i know you can do the same on windows. but it's not included with the OS and/or it's not as elegantly implemented...)

i realize it's a vague concept - "tools" vs. "lifestyle accessories" but maybe some of us can understand what i'm talking about...

so PC being cheaper, XP being more stable, etc... doesn't really matter to me. for work, i think i'll be able to use PC just as before, but i can't imagine not having a mac for the "fun" part of my life.

[aafuss1]

Originally posted by Jagga
Check out a link within this same site regarding views from a PC user and other mac users, benefits of price and applications....I think the thread is called "What makes you proud of your mac" actually give it a full read.

Of note imagine cycling through all of the windows of a single application NOT just all open windows like that on, well, Windows.
Example open alot of applications, and different windows on XP (like 4 different IE windows, Word windows, Excel windows etc) then when you Alt-Tab you'll have to browse through all of the open windows, and you CANNOT browse through windows of a specific applications (ex IE ).

Good luck on whatever you decide.


Ever enabled the taskbar grouping feature-it groups for example multiple IE,Word,Excel; windows into just a button for each. Reduces taskbar clutter.

[Bluefusion]

Actually, from what I've seen, it only groups items when they fill the taskbar...

And the alt-tabbing still selects windows, correct? So it's really not much of a solution, although it's a step in the right direction...

[aafuss1]

Does Mac OS X have a remote assitance feature-XP has that. Bluefusion-XP's file and settings wizard is more easier to use than Mac OS X, see this info:

'For people who buy a new PC or prefer to perform a clean install, Microsoft has included a powerful new feature called the File and Transfer Wizard, which lets you easily move your documents and settings from an old PC (or installation) to the new install (Figure). First, you run this wizard on the old PC, and it archives the appropriate information in a location you specify (you can even go in and fine-tune what gets saved). Then, after Windows XP is installed, you re-run the wizard and apply the files and settings to your new install. What a great idea.' (from http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/windowsxp.asp)

Also XP has an upgrade advsior that Mac OSX seems to lack-it can be used to see what applications won't work with Mac OS X. Used it on my 98 computer-easy and quite quick to create a 'upgrade report'

Does the Mac have a show in groups view-this shows files in groups (like by type-eg. Word documents would be shown in a group that says something like MS Word Documents)?

[aafuss1]

In Windows Media Player you can turn on SRS WOW Effects, that has TruBass and Wow effects settings-I enabled these and music sounds better than say iTunes on Macs (which doesn't have SRS Wow Effects) .Also WMP9 is skinnable, iTunes isn't.

Just to add bit more to my info about dynamic setup in XP-it downloads the most up to date,latest setup files. This ensures that Windows has the most current setup data for your system.

With Macs you have download software updates after setup, yourself manually, and you do not get recent setup files. More timeconsuming, than in Windows, where you can get setup download more recent setup files than the files found on the Windows CD. Plus you can install XP in a another way-just run Setup in Windows.

[5300cs]

I'm sorry, but this was like reading straight from M$s website itself.

Also XP has an upgrade advsior that Mac OSX seems to lack-it can be used to see what applications won't work with Mac OS X. Used it on my 98 computer-easy and quite quick to create a 'upgrade report' You don't need this with Macs. M$ makes the OS, but doesn't make all the hardware so there are bound to be inconsistencies. I hope people don't see this as a 'benefit'...

In Windows Media Player you can turn on SRS WOW Effects, that has TruBass and Wow effects settings-I enabled these and music sounds better than say iTunes on Macs (which doesn't have SRS Wow Effects) .Also WMP9 is skinnable, iTunes isn't. windows media player is the worst piece of s I have ever had the misfortune of using (along with RealPlayer.) There are a lot of people who hate it too, not just me.

With Macs you have download software updates after setup, yourself manually, and you do not get recent setup files. More timeconsuming, than in Windows, where you can get setup download more recent setup files than the files found on the Windows CD. Plus you can install XP in a another way-just run Setup in Windows. I noticed in your sig that you have a machine with OS 8, back then you had to install updates manually. Where've you been since OS X came out? In does it for you automatically. I would NEVER download anything automatically from M$, not with all the behind-the-scenes things XP has going on (guest port[s], etc.)

Does the Mac have a show in groups view-this shows files in groups (like by type-eg. Word documents would be shown in a group that says something like MS Word Documents)? Yes, it does.

And the whole argument that schools should be using PCs instead of Macs because won't be prepared when they enter the real world is a another load of bull-cookies. I found a few articles in the past saying it was nonsense, if anyone could help me find a few links..?

[kaizer]

I was in my friends house yesterday while he's installing a game on his XP. His whole family's pro MS. Just as he finished installing the game and he tried to run it. There's a pop up window saying there's a corrupt .dll file! I laugh my head off as he blank stare at me (he's no techie)!

I said "Sorry dude, a .dll file's gotta do with the system... and I dunno what needs to be done, except get a Mac!" Followed with a hysterical laugh! By then his brother come into the room and said "Don't get a Mac, it's only for graphics stuffs!". I'm too tired to argue... maybe when I bring my iBook over and do a little 'show and tell', maybe then...;)

Before you discount me as a MS hater, I tell you I'm not. I'm a recent switcher from Win98. Just hoping for a refreshing change after years of staring at the same ol' 'START' button. The only thing I regret is why I don't switch sooner!;)

Lot less headache (compared to 98). Ease of installation (most apps) with drag and drop (into the application folder).

No doubt XP crash alot lesser (or maybe don't at all?) but if you're getting a portable computer... nothing beats OsX's sleep function. I almost never turn off mine, just let it sleep when not in use. It's been the envy of the MS world all this while (another friend dare me to a test, both my iBook and his Wintel laptop put on sleep mode on full charge and see who last the longest... I will never know my iBook's limit, since his Wintel 'dropdead' after a couple of hours!

With the Centrino (Pentium M), Wintel machines finally catching up with Macs (or to a certain extent exceeding it) in battery life, but the credit goes to Intel, not MS. As a LS neutral friend once said, "A Centrino based laptop is a fine hardware based on a crappy software, it's like Intel's saving MS's butt and MS's getting all the credit!"

If you're a uber-geek, then MS's for you (err... shouldn't you be on Linux?), but if you're a normal user like me, then you're better off with a Mac. Trust me, I've been there.

Another story: When I'm on Win98, I used to have a friend acting as my personal IT guy, whenever I mess up my PC, I'll give him a call and he'll fix it for me!:D

One of my concern is that when I switch to a Mac, I'm going at it alone as he knows nothing about Mac. That scares me... Thinking back, it's only with a crappy OS you'll need some techie beside you at all time. OsX no problem!:D :D

Whenever I need help (non-urgent, since I can still use my iBook) I just drop by here and ask...;)

Oh yeah, if you're a Windows user, remember you'll need some time to unlearn the MS way of doing things. It even bafffles me nowadays that OsX's way of making things so easy... you know what I mean? In MS, you'll have to search high and low for slolution when something goes wrong? In OsX, it's smack in your face... I tend to get frustrated looking everywhere, just as I give up... it's right there on the desktop (case in point, Bluetooth connection).

Man, talking about unlearning something!

Oh yeah, this is not meant to scare you all, but the other day a friend installed a firewall software on his laptop. Do you know that MS Excel secretly sends some kinda information to an unknown destination everytime you use it?

Talk about big brother tactics!

Good luck to those that plan to buy the latest Office suite with Management rights!

[aafuss1]

Originally posted by kaizer
I was in my friends house yesterday while he's installing a game on his XP. His whole family's pro MS. Just as he finished installing the game and he tried to run it. There's a pop up window saying there's a corrupt .dll file! I laugh my head off as he blank stare at me (he's no techie)!

I said "Sorry dude, a .dll file's gotta do with the system... and I dunno what needs to be done, except get a Mac!" Followed with a hysterical laugh! By then his brother come into the room and said "Don't get a Mac, it's only for graphics stuffs!". I'm too tired to argue... maybe when I bring my iBook over and do a little 'show and tell', maybe then...;)

Before you discount me as a MS hater, I tell you I'm not. I'm a recent switcher from Win98. Just hoping for a refreshing change after years of staring at the same ol' 'START' button. The only thing I regret is why I don't switch sooner!;)

Lot less headache (compared to 98). Ease of installation (most apps) with drag and drop (into the application folder).

No doubt XP crash alot lesser (or maybe don't at all?) but if you're getting a portable computer... nothing beats OsX's sleep function. I almost never turn off mine, just let it sleep when not in use. It's been the envy of the MS world all this while (another friend dare me to a test, both my iBook and his Wintel laptop put on sleep mode on full charge and see who last the longest... I will never know my iBook's limit, since his Wintel 'dropdead' after a couple of hours!

With the Centrino (Pentium M), Wintel machines finally catching up with Macs (or to a certain extent exceeding it) in battery life, but the credit goes to Intel, not MS. As a LS neutral friend once said, "A Centrino based laptop is a fine hardware based on a crappy software, it's like Intel's saving MS's butt and MS's getting all the credit!"

If you're a uber-geek, then MS's for you (err... shouldn't you be on Linux?), but if you're a normal user like me, then you're better off with a Mac. Trust me, I've been there.

Another story: When I'm on Win98, I used to have a friend acting as my personal IT guy, whenever I mess up my PC, I'll give him a call and he'll fix it for me!:D

One of my concern is that when I switch to a Mac, I'm going at it alone as he knows nothing about Mac. That scares me... Thinking back, it's only with a crappy OS you'll need some techie beside you at all time. OsX no problem!:D :D

Whenever I need help (non-urgent, since I can still use my iBook) I just drop by here and ask...;)

Oh yeah, if you're a Windows user, remember you'll need some time to unlearn the MS way of doing things. It even bafffles me nowadays that OsX's way of making things so easy... you know what I mean? In MS, you'll have to search high and low for slolution when something goes wrong? In OsX, it's smack in your face... I tend to get frustrated looking everywhere, just as I give up... it's right there on the desktop (case in point, Bluetooth connection).

Man, talking about unlearning something!

Oh yeah, this is not meant to scare you all, but the other day a friend installed a firewall software on his laptop. Do you know that MS Excel secretly sends some kinda information to an unknown destination everytime you use it?

Talk about big brother tactics!

Good luck to those that plan to buy the latest Office suite with Management rights!

1. 'Lot less headache (compared to 98). Ease of installation (most apps) with drag and drop (into the application folder).'
Some Windows programs do not need .dll files and are supplied in .zip files for example-SysInternal's Process Explorer is about 70-100kb compressed and requires just extracting it to folder. To remove, just remove its folder.

[alamar]

Ok, i didn't want to get involved in this but I might as well.....

I use XP from time to time....its not that big a step from Win2k. (really its not....)

I use Win2k at work every day. Next to that box, I use my ibook. Its hands down to the ibook in my book. I telnet with the ibook. I surf with the ibook. Anything i can accomplish on it I do.

Windows has come a long way since DOS....but its still the most counterintuitive option on the face of the earth.

First off its highly claustrophobic for a multitasking system. XP looks nice, and is a step in the right direction, but it also ads tons of red tape to the most simple task. If I open a folder I want to see what is in it. My ibook would NEVER ask if I wanted to see my applications. I paid for them! (the majority of them)....get the idea?

The only real advantage to Windows (that I see) is in viewing media on the net; maybe playing games if your into that. MS media player and Real player upgrade the win versions first. Fine. Its never been an issue for me.

OSX is solid out the box. You don't need to run around hacking open this and that. I don't have to demand that it let me find something when I ask to find. Your not 3 security updates back because you went on vacation for a week.

Apps still break in windows for no apparent reason. I put a shortcut for a word dock in that space next to the start button the other day and tried to open it twice. It launched 2 copies and promptly broke word.

Looking down the road, my Apple will last me years. Also, it will run software from the late 80s no problem. I do not care how long it takes to boot. Booting is a rarity. The OS is there. It is nice to look at, it doesn't second guess my actions, and it will not let a seemingly logical action, such as removing a program, shove a shiv deep into the belly of the operating system. (I do not know how much of an issue this is with XP....)

If customization is your thing, go for it. I do not enjoy fixing computers. Windows is vulnerable. Its to easy to break. In-fact its easy to break while trying to fix, and most power users fix it right out the box.

XP is a step in the right direction for MS, but somehow they managed to screw up lots of little stuff while taking that step. It seems almost like they want things to be complicated. Users want to click and get a response.....not a host of sub options on exactly how you want to search (that one really gets me.)

The millions of apps available for Windows is a mute point. The big guns are on both sides, aside from the games. If it can be done on one someone can write code to do it on the other. I have never felt left out on my Mac....and its typically a solid bet that if Apple wrote the App, it has no equal.

As for re-skinning the OS....well if we are talking about that we are so far off topic.....forget it.


I turn on my Mac and it works, for days at a time. I turn on my PC and it works for days at a time, but half the time I feel that its working against me.

A computer should be like a microwave. You turn it on for 5 minutes and it cooks your popcorn. There should not be some middle man making suggestions before he allows you to cook. And I should not have to tool around in it to make it work right. That is the job of the guy who made the microwave. This is where MS has dropped the ball as of late.....well that's one spot....Microsoft reminds me of the guy in PopEye who keeps trying to get his hat and kicks it farther and farther each step he takes towards it.

At any rate. Its getting close to even, but Windows is still intent on bending the user to the needs of the system. An assimilation if you will.

You could put 2 english speaking yet completely computer illiterate idiots in front of 2 boxes, one XP and one OSX and I swear that hands down the OSX guy would pick it up 100% faster. Esp if their first contest was to find something.

Point F'n Blank. You will be more productive on Mac. Over a day. Over a lifetime.

[aafuss1]

Spring loaded folders-Windows Explorer can do this, but only in the folders Explorer bar, not in the files area. I find it useful in Windows, but in Mac OS 8/9/X 10.2, it's better implemented.
Compressed folders-with Mac OS X, you have to buy Stuffit to create .sit files, and use the Terminal to tar and gzip files-not very user friendly, for handling .gz and .tar files. XP's compressed folders function is seamsly builtin to the OS, and works quite well-Windows 98's Plus Pack was the first to have this, then built in Windows Me.
Microsoft Management console-user friendly system management function, eaiser than using the OSX Terminal on Macs. Many Windows XP functions-likedisk management functions use this-centralised system admistration. The Mac doesn't have a MMC like feature.
Windows XP at least gives you a choice between Luna and Windows classic themes-with a Mac, there is Aqua and that's it-and you have to brushed metal Finder look in X 10.3-you won't be able to choose a 10.2 style Finder theme.

[billyboy]

Originally posted by jxyama
been thinking about this stuff ever since i learned how to use iMovie in a matter of few hours...

i think the reason many people are so price conscious about computers is because it's seen as a tool, not a "lifestyle" accessory.

i think these are truly lifestyle accessories. and for that reason, i think price doesn't matter as much to me anymore. i want to be able to make movies. i want to be able to turn piles of old cluttering photos into a nice album. i want to have easy access to 3000 songs. because these functions are not what i consider to be tools-level, i want to do it in flying colors. i want it to be easy and intuitive. and i believe apple lets me do just that... (notice i never said windows machines can't do all the above - i know you can do the same on windows. but it's not included with the OS and/or it's not as elegantly implemented...)

i realize it's a vague concept - "tools" vs. "lifestyle accessories" but maybe some of us can understand what i'm talking about...

so PC being cheaper, XP being more stable, etc... doesn't really matter to me. for work, i think i'll be able to use PC just as before, but i can't imagine not having a mac for the "fun" part of my life.

That is a great summary. A Mac is not simply a tool in a box, it can genuinely enrich your life and get some really useful order into the way you do things.

I have never had so much useful fun as since I got the hang of OSX freebies, iTunes and iPhoto. But equally importantly, I use them almost every day when Im teaching English to foreign students. We have PCs and multi media programmes at work, but what a fag to try and organise anything. Maybe its our fault for being technophobes, but a lot of the resources never get used from one year to the next.

I got a Mac at Christmas and Im multi media teacherboy now and can well imagine how bored the kids were before with photocopies of magazine pictures and out of date material. iApps make it so easy for me to keep students interested and on their toes, Describing a picture in a foreign language is one of the hardest exercises there is, and they actually dont mind now as I flick through albums asking, What´s this, that and the other. The hardest thing is to fill in the blanks in songs. I pick a trendy tune, click an Applescript that usually gets me the lyrics, drag them into Textedit, remove words and print off the lesson. Music is a great draw to get students to learn a langage. My greatest victory is an adult who could barely say his own name in English, and now he can rattle off "Bitch" by Meredith Brookes, and translate it word for word!

Trust me, I actualy enjoy preparing lessons and I dont think I will never get a stale old phogey, and I definitely forgot the pain of handing over €3000 for a "tool" I knew about only by reputation.

And now I just weep when I see colleagues trying to do stuff with Winamp, scrolling through screens of folders looking for songs. Its like, why didnt they finish the programme and end up with the no brainer console on iTunes?

Its been a very liberating experience with OSX.

[aafuss1]

In Windows-I can change the screen resolution easily-just by right clicking on the 'Intel Extreme Graphics' system tray icon and then select Display Modes from menu that appears, then the color depth then the screen resolution. On Mac OS X-you could do that via System Preference or maybe via the Finder.

[scem0]

being a switcher from OS X to XP I can say that there is no competition.

XP is bulky and ugly. Even with the classic theme and all the performance tweaks on it is bulky and slow. Applications are buggy, it is virus prone, games don't play as well on it (as opposed to previous MS OS's), and it is annoying as hell. Typical microsoft. But it is functional, which is enough for me.

But after a year with XP I can't wait to get a mac. Switching from OS X to XP has helped me realize that speed isn't that big of an issue. OS X makes up for the time lost from a slow g4, and the fast Intel and AMD processors make up for the time lost by Windows.

All in all mac os x is a MUCH better OS, for many, many reasons. XP is a downgrade from Windows 98 and 2000, and can't even begin to compare to OS X.

scem0

[5300cs]

Originally posted by aafuss1
In Windows-I can change the screen resolution easily-just by right clicking on the 'Intel Extreme Graphics' system tray icon and then select Display Modes from menu that appears, then the color depth then the screen resolution. On Mac OS X-you could do that via System Preference or maybe via the Finder.

:rolleyes: again?

Go to System Preferences once, click on "Show Displays menu in bar" and from then on you can change the resolution & color depth with one click !

Have you actually used OS X?

[aafuss1]

In OSX are all the screen resolution modes in the Display icon menu all together or logically sorted into categories (like my Intel graphics driver's system tray icon sorts display modes into three categories-high color, 256 colors and true color)? Could some post ascreenshot of OSX's display menu in fimder option showing screen resolutions?

[sushi]

Originally posted by aafuss1
In OSX are all the screen resolution modes in the Display icon menu all together or logically sorted into categories (like my Intel graphics driver's system tray icon sorts display modes into three categories-high color, 256 colors and true color)? Could some post ascreenshot of OSX's display menu in fimder option showing screen resolutions?
I have a single 22 inch Cinema Display attached to my system.

When I select the icon in the menu bar I see all resolutions from 640x480 through 1600x1024. The colors available at any resolution are 256 Colors, Thousands and Millions.

While I do not have a multi monitor system, I have seen one where the same icon had two sections, one for each display with the resolutions and color settings.

Simple to do with Mac OS X

Sushi

[5300cs]

Here's the menu. I can't imagine how much simpler it could get. I have two monitors and it lets me do everything from withing this menu.

[Bluefusion]

X is just a clearly superior system to XP... it should be rather obvious, but for some reason there are still those who can't seem to get it.. :P

That's what we're here for, I suppose...

[benixau]

Originally posted by Bluefusion
X is just a clearly superior system to XP... it should be rather obvious, but for some reason there are still those who can't seem to get it.. :P

That's what we're here for, I suppose...

yeah, i know:

we call 'em loosers or idiots
apple calls em potential customers
pc zealots call em brothers
MS calls em $$$$$$$$$$$$

why did i buy a mac? cause if i bought another pc my uncle would have to travel 30mins to fix it every other day.

oh and i wanted airburst :D :D :D

[Photorun]

XP is bloatware. And run enough apps while uploading and downloading files from servers while taxing the RAM you can get XP to crash where as OS X only just gets darned slow.

Also XP is just a poor copy of OS X in some of it's looks, why not just get and use the original, go with OS X.

/endkneejerk

[ColoJohnBoy]

I have used Windows since 3.1 when my father bought our first family computer in 1993. I have also used Macs from about the same time (not sure which OS was being used, but I wasn't really cognizant of those things). Last May I switched to Mac.

Macs are better than PCs.

PCs do have their good points. I really liked using 2000 and XP is nice because of its more integrated and intuitive interface. But there is one thing that Apple has that Windows never will: iApps.
iTunes is the best. It blows WMP out of the water. It doesn't bring up ads when you open it, it's far easier to use and organize, and it's much better looking (opinion) than WMP. You're not going to find anything nearly as good as the iApps for PC, unless, of course, Apple ports all of them. Also, Safari is by far and away the better web browser than IE. It's faster, simpler, and better looking.

Overall, I think OS X is the better choice for those reasons: faster, simpler, and better looking. XP was a huge step over 95/98/ME. OSX is even better.

[wheet]

i just have to point out that problems with G5 performance are entirely software based. OS X.2 "runs" on a G5, yes, but it is nowhere near optimized. We really have to wait to see what happens with the whole XLC vs. GCC issue -- what Apple builds the final release of Panther with, what 3rd party developers use, and so on. When both code and compiler are fully "aware" of how a G5 runs, THEN it will be time to get some benchmarks, and make some actual performance comparisons. Apple shoved the G5 out the door as fast as they possibly could, just to get it on the market. "Smeagol"...? What's that all about!? With Panther just around the corner, it would've been a no-brainer to release the two together. BUT... As everyone knows, Apple needed to announce the G5... it was simply imperative. I will certainly get a G5, but not until there's something to run on it that will really make use of its strenghts.
The very fact that the G5s are testing only slightly faster, clock-per-clock, than the G4s -- given the multitude of improvements made to the G5 architecture (which, by the way, are largely based on standards used in the Wintel/AMD world) -- should make people realize that hardware is not to blame... The only thing I'm nervous about is the choice of PCI-X over PCI-Extreme.

Of course, this all ultimately relates to "market share." It's a simple fact that more developers will be writing XP apps, there's more $$$ going into Wintel research and development, and so on. What always makes me scratch my head is how people forget that this massive majority SHOULD result in better performance, of both hardware and software, and SHOULD be cheaper for the end-user. This being the case, a Windoze box should be around 20 times faster, be 20 times as user-friendly, and 20 times less expensive.... The fact is, it's not. That Apple has even survived this long proves (I think) that it will continue to survive. Apple is an innovative company, and I certianly hope that innovation cannot be overcome by sheer market power.

I use an XP P4 1.8, side-by-side with an OS X.2 G4 733. Obviously, the P4 is faster. But, at more than double the clock-speed, and double the RAM speed, it better be! To be honest, I seldom notice the difference in speed. However, I much prefer using the Mac. OS X is, on the whole, a more enjoyable user experience. And anyone who thinks this is a trivial point is probably under some serious delusions about the function of computers in our daily lives. When people today spend hours-on-end at the computer, by choice or by necessity, the "beauty" or "comfort" of the OS is of tremendous importance. Ease of use and reliability are, of course, essential as well. My PC needs virtually constant attention. My Mac I don't worry about. The Mac is far easier to configure, in almost any situation -- software, hardware, network, etc. Of course, the PC is more "tweakable", but I really haven't seen much improvement from the tweaks I've tried. On the other hand, if you are so inclined, the Terminal allows a whole new universe of tweak-headedness for OS X users.
Ultimately, I have to admit to sharing the simplistic attitude that "the Mac just works."

The worst thing that could ever happen for computer users of the future would be for everybody, everywhere, to be using XP alone... or, for that matter, OS X. Diversity is the key to evolution.

As for G5 performance, hold your thoughts for a few months.

[wheet]

I just read a post about disabling hardware/software in XP. I admit, that can be pretty handy. But I noticed a few weeks ago that simply moving .kext packages out of /System/Library/Extensions will actually disable the extensions. I know, this seems pretty obvious, but I thought it was kind of cool. In my particular case, it fixed a driver compatibility issue, and didn't even require a restart -- just re-launching the app! So, it stands to reason that there are probably more ways to tweak OS X, even from the Finder, than we have discovered at this point.

I will admit that "Add/Remove Programs" would be cool in OS X. Drag and drop package installers are not yet the norm, and digging around finding every file related to an install is a pain (recall the SystemWorks 2 fiasco?). "System Restore" would be nice, as well, though I agree that it's rarely necessary.

[OutThere]

Hey...this is turning into a total Mac vs. PC flame war. Get over it guys. People who use macs like them and people who use PCs like them. The people who don't like what they have switch. Get over it. Mods-Wasteland time.....