New PowerBooks - Finally

[MacRumors]

Apple updated their PowerBooks (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/) today, after much anticipation.

All three models were updated:

12" PowerBook, 1GHz PowerPC G4, 512K L2 Cache, 256MB PC2100 Memory, NVidia GeForce FX Go5200 (32MB), 40GB Hard Drive, Built-in Bluetooth, Airport Extreme Ready.
Combo Drive: $1599. SuperDrive: $1799.

15" PowerBook, 1.0GHz PowerPC G4, 512K L2 Cache, 256MB PC2700 Memory, ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (64MB), 60GB HD, Combo Drive. Built-in Bluetooth. Airport Extreme Ready. $1999
15" PowerBook, 1.25GHz PowerPC G4, 512K L2 Cache, 512MB PC2700 Memory, ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (64MB), 80GB HD, Super Drive. Built-in Bluetooth and Airport Extreme. Illuminated Keyboard. $2599

17" PowerBook, 1.33GHz PowerPC G4, 512K L2 Cache, 512MB PC2700 Memory, ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (64MB), 80GB HD, SuperDrive, Built-in Bluetooth and Airport Extreme. Illuminated Keyboard. $2999

[stoid]

'bout time, but it's too bad we didn't get G5s

[LOZ23]

About ****ing time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[maradong]

so cool :)

[bignumbers]

The $2599 15" has a superdrive, not combo...

15" PowerBook, 1.25GHz PowerPC G4, 512K L2 Cache, 512MB PC2700 Memory, ATI Mobility Radeon 9600 (64MB), 80GB HD, Combo Drive. Built-in Bluetooth and Airport Extreme. Illuminated Keyboard. $2599

[Chaszmyr]

I really wanted the G5 powerbooks... And i atleast wanted backlit keyboard on the 12''...

I am a little disappointed, but it's not a bad update

[joeyboy76]

.
i want the 15" superdrive!!! but i dont have any money... sigh....

[coolbreeze]

Hmm. The base 15" makes me want to eBay my iBook and make the leap....hmmm

[m_gerbik]

It's a slight price drop too isn't it? I might be wrong, but I thought they topped out at $3299 before this update.

[mvc]

A very long wait for very little results. I struggle to see why that took soo long to achieve.

I presume it was the supply issues with Rottenrola. The sooner we get G5s across the board the better.

[red_wedge]

Why did they dump the L3 cache? That's a major pain!

[bdiddy]

Ooooh, the 12'' has Mini DVI now

[arby]

Happy days!!! New Powerbooks!!!

I'm off to the Apple Store to put in my order for a brand new 15" PB, after month of waiting. Not a bad graphics card either.

[elkoreano]

well, let's see what the 12" powerbook got..

1) alittle teeny bit of speed
2) more memory expandability, but we could have upgraded to over 640 with the previous model anyway
3) dvi output (HOORAY!!)
4) diff 32mb video card

i was hoping for:
1. pcmcia card slot to expand to firewire 800 or other things later
2. the same monitor they use on the 15" and 17".. it doesn't look like they used the same once again for the 12".. if someone can dispute this, please make me happy and tell me otherwise.. i'm talking about the quality.
3. 5200 rpms please..
4. speed up the combo drive will ya?
5. L3 no? come on..
6. backlit keyboard? don't discriminate!!

wow, i think that'd be the perfect 12" with those mods.

[Nicky G]

The question is, does this particular iteration of the 7457 chip support DDR?

Very nice lineup, however -- the 12 finally got DVI, which is really slick. ATi 9600 in the 15 and 17. Not too much to complain about! However, I am surprised that there's no 1.33 in the 15.

Wow, very nice machines, though -- I like how they are available today! Motorola finally put out.

And the prices?! Is this the cheapest the lineup's ever been? Best value, definitely -- I can't believe the 17" is $3K, with Superdrive and 512MB! Holy Cow!!!

Lotsa people buyin' Powerbooks today, fo' sho'. :)

[Tiauguinho]

Originally posted by red_wedge
Why did they dump the L3 cache? That's a major pain!


Completly agree with you. It might have 512k Cache L2 but the L3 gives a push too. They should add at least 1MB of L3. Oh well.

[coolbreeze]

Originally posted by red_wedge
Why did they dump the L3 cache? That's a major pain!
Yeah, reading the tech specs, I don't see L3 cache? That's a step forward in technology? Please tell me I'm misled or somthing... (referring to the 15").

I have been at work since 1am, so I could have missed it...

[thebt]

The 12" also has USB2, so that's new too! :D

[true777]

So... do the 12' models also have the new xx57 processor??

I'm wondering, since the 12" 1 Ghz uses PC 2100/266 DDR memory w/ 133 bus speed, and the 1 Ghz 15" has PC 2700/333 DDR w/ 167 bus. Seems to point to different architecture, no?

I wanted to look up processor specs at apple.com, but the links from the powerbook model pages to the processor spec pages for the various models are broken. Weird, they're usually so careful about broken links. What could that mean?

[sacrilicious]

That site is freakin' lagged. It's almost as bad waiting to get the site to work as it is to wait for the update itself.

3-5 business days for me, an EDU American, for the 512x2 RAM. With a 1gig SO it was 4-6 weeks.

[crees!]

So on the 15" you can have a 4200rpm 80Gig or a 5400rpm 80Gig drive. How much hotter and wear on the battery life do you all expect the faster drive will have?

PS - And the buy a bundle and save a bundle deals are still in effect. The rebate date is based on your purchase date and not received date right? I don't want to buy the iPod then not get the rebate because it didn't come in time.

[peteMG]

Thank goodness they're not G5s. Now I don't have to get one. External DVD-R plus my tibook is good enough, though i am still itching for:[list=1]
a non-scratching paint job
a non-flexing case
80G internal (but I can get that by itself, weeee
[/list=1]

[Titian]

Why don't we forget Paris and start discussing about next year? :D

[chazmox]

So... does anyone know if increasing the L2 and dropping the L3 is an improvement???

Is this the 7457 or the 7447...

[gloftis]

So far, nobody seems to have noticed that the WiFi Ghz gap has closed.

The Wintel notebooks with the "New Technology" Centrino processor comes in about 1.4 Ghz, with the bogus hyperthreading system to "accelerate" its effective clock speed.

The PB 17 is now nominally just .67Ghz off that figure with a proven ability to blow the doors off a P4 at 1 Ghz.

I doubt we'll see a PB G5 because of the heat issue, but alll you whiners do a search on the IBM PPC 750VX, which, by some estimations, could reach clock speeds of 3Ghz+

[ColoJohnBoy]

These are pretty cool! Think I'll get one to last me awhile... at least until the G5s come :D

[sacrilicious]

"Please wait...
We are verifying your credit card number."

But that screwed up so I'm back to the place order page. This is traumatizing. I wish I weren't drunk.

PowerBook 1.25GHz (15.2" TFT) Z07E 3-5 bus.days 1 $2,771.00 $2,771.00
1.25GHz PowerPC G4 065-4116
80GB Ultra ATA drive @ 5400 rpm 065-4544
SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW) 065-4119
Backlit Keyboard/Mac OS - U.S. English 065-4495
1GB DDR333 SDRAM - 2x512 SO-DIMMs 065-4140
AirPort Extreme Card 065-4496

[cybermat]

Is the new 15" the same thickness as the previous 15"? or did they trim some fat from the 12"? They have the same thickness now according to the specs.

Honestly, does the additional .25Ghz make a lot of difference? I am deciding between the 12" superdrive and the 15" superdrive.

Thanks for your input.

[crees!]

Originally posted by chazmox
So... does anyone know if increasing the L2 and dropping the L3 is an improvement???

Is this the 7457 or the 7447...

What was relayed on the macrumors IRC was that it is the 7457.

[reflex]

Originally posted by gloftis
So far, nobody seems to have noticed that the WiFi Ghz gap has closed.

The Wintel notebooks with the "New Technology" Centrino processor comes in about 1.4 Ghz, with the bogus hyperthreading system to "accelerate" its effective clock speed.

There are Centrino laptops at 1.7GHz and (I may be mistaken) at 1.9GHz.

[cionheart]

One more thing to say about the 12" PB: There's finally no more useless 128 MB module, the 256 MB are integrated into the mainboard, which means you can upgrade to 768 MB (instead of 640 MB) for the same money. Yeah! :-)

[chazmox]

Originally posted by crees!
What was relayed on the macrumors IRC was that it is the 7457.

I think L3 is a diff between the 2 proc.

7457 has it/7447 does not...

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by crees!
What was relayed on the macrumors IRC was that it is the 7457.

What's the server again?

[Nicky G]

Originally posted by sacrilicious
"Please wait...
We are verifying your credit card number."

But that screwed up so I'm back to the place order page. This is traumatizing. I wish I weren't drunk.

Definitely quote of the day... :)

[crees!]

Originally posted by sacrilicious
What's the server again? irc.krono.net #macrumors

[true777]

Originally posted by cybermat
Is the new 15" the same thickness as the previous 15"? or did they trim some fat from the 12"? They have the same thickness now according to the specs.



The new 15" is 1.1" thick, up from 1".
The 12" is 1.18".

I'm still not sure if the 12" has the new 7457, too, as the architecture seems to be different from the 15" 1 Ghz?

[gaijinjim]

Is it just me or do the new prices of the PowerBook kill any possible sales of iBooks? A 12" PowerBook is $1799 vs. a 14" iBook at $1778. More power and for a $100 more Airport Extreme. Where were the iBook updates?

[CmdrLaForge]

Now finally the new PB arrived. But I must say that looking on the 15" specs I am a little bit disappointed. Why did it take nearly a year of development ? The backlit keyboard ? Surely not.
Maybe just the supply - but still some disappointment.

On the other hand it is just great that they finally arrived and all that endless (really endless) discussions and speculations can stop now (how about new iBooks BTW :-)

[true777]

how come everyone just so happens to be up so late tonight ? :)

[astray]

Well, i finally ordered my 17inch powerbook for university. Can't wait till it comes. Luckily i ordered by phone as the website wasnt working and it turned out i qualified for an extra £200 off the price i thought it was. Woohoo. Also did anyone else notice they let you pick what rpm hd you want, 4200 or 5400.

[Hattig]

Originally posted by gloftis
So far, nobody seems to have noticed that the WiFi Ghz gap has closed.

The Wintel notebooks with the "New Technology" Centrino processor comes in about 1.4 Ghz, with the bogus hyperthreading system to "accelerate" its effective clock speed.

The PB 17 is now nominally just .67Ghz off that figure with a proven ability to blow the doors off a P4 at 1 Ghz.

I doubt we'll see a PB G5 because of the heat issue, but alll you whiners do a search on the IBM PPC 750VX, which, by some estimations, could reach clock speeds of 3Ghz+

Okay, point by misinformed point:

1) The Pentium-M is available at up to 1.7GHz

2) A 1.6 GHz Pentium-M is faster than a 2.4GHz P4-M, sometimes as fast as a 3 GHz P4-M. In fact, the P-M is actaully a good processor design from Intel, for once.

3) The P4 has HyperThreading. The P-M doesn't.

4) That means that the top-of-the-range PowerBook is 366MHz off the speed of the fastest P-M, with 1.8GHz P-M's available soon.

5) The P-M is competitive with the G4 clock-for-clock, and possibly faster given its faster bus and extra cache.

Centrino wireless LAN adaptors are a joke though - high power consumption, only 11mbps ... Intel are holding back the entire market.

[tribalogical]

no L3 cache???

poof! there goes the gains from a faster CPU/RAM combo... I can't imagine the boosted L2 will entirely make up for it...

oh well, will have to wait to see benchmarks. I will be using it for music/video 'field' production and live stuff... popular sentiment is that DAWs in particular drop in performance without the L3 in there....

hmmm, might have to stick with tracking down a 1Ghz TiBook after all.......

but otherwise, MAN, is it pretty :)

*sigh* to L3, or not to L3, that is the question....

tribalogical

[Tom Golden]

It is about freakin time!

[depakote]

I just ordered a 17". I will post pics when I get it if anyone wants me to.

[true777]

Originally posted by gaijinjim
Is it just me or do the new prices of the PowerBook kill any possible sales of iBooks?

Well, at least now they finally *could* safely bring the iBook up to 1Ghz without killing any possible sales of Powerbooks!

IBM is probably sitting on much faster G3 processors right now that Apple just can't put in IBooks until the PBs go G5 in order not to hurt PB sales.

[tduality]

Originally posted by Titian
Why don't we forget Paris and start discussing about next year? :D

Don't worry, the 'G5 at MWSF' discussion will begin in a minute...:D

[cybermat]

Originally posted by true777
how come everyone just so happens to be up so late tonight ? :)

Too much homework, over excited and couldn't sleep. You know I am an ex-PC user (Not anymore, just ordered my new 15" powerbook) and I've never been so excited about a computer release. If Apple doesn't update its powerbooks anytime soon, I don't think my heart can take it anymore. Thank goodness.. I must say part of this thrill converted me to apple :) These rumor sites also played a major role.

Anyway,

Cheers to all..

[sacrilicious]

Order just went through. Goodnight.

[Sun Baked]

1.33GHz PowerPC G4, 512K L2 Cache Yes it's a 7457 ...

Now I'm just waiting for the "but it's overclocked" spiel to start again.

Even though it's a 1300MHz part. :rolleyes:

Lack of L3 cache is a suprise.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by elkoreano
well, let's see what the 12" powerbook got..

1) alittle teeny bit of speed
2) more memory expandability, but we could have upgraded to over 640 with the previous model anyway
3) dvi output (HOORAY!!)
4) diff 32mb video card

i was hoping for:
1. pcmcia card slot to expand to firewire 800 or other things later
2. the same monitor they use on the 15" and 17".. it doesn't look like they used the same once again for the 12".. if someone can dispute this, please make me happy and tell me otherwise.. i'm talking about the quality.
3. 5200 rpms please..
4. speed up the combo drive will ya?
5. L3 no? come on..
6. backlit keyboard? don't discriminate!!

wow, i think that'd be the perfect 12" with those mods.

If you look at the xlr8yourmac.com site, some 4800 drives run faster than 5400 ones. often by a lot. higher numbers do not always mean faster speeds - look at Intel! ;) ;)

[mvc]

Originally posted by tduality
Don't worry, the 'G5 at MWSF' discussion will begin in a minute...:D

Really! WOW, thats amazing, what have you heard :D

WoW

woOow

Nope, its just not the same …

[gloftis]

Thank you for straightening me out, hattig. I try to spend as little time in the Wintel world as possible.

NONETHELESS, the APPARENT gap has closed significantly. When you are talking <500 Mhz difference, it doesn't sound to Wintel users like a big deal. I will be curious to see how the PB 17 1.33 does against the P4-M du jour in actual application trials. Remember, the P4 folks are being burdened with Windows!

[ZildjianKX]

*yawn*

Its a portable iMac.

No, but seriously... not stellar. Surprised they made the 17" clock faster, especially after the lack of 15" updates.

[hvfsl]

I want to see some UT2003 benchmarks on these new PowerBooks (mainly the 15in), I will hold off buying a new PB until then. If they are a lot slower than PC laptops, I will wait until January and hope for a PB G5.

[MacQuest]

Sorry for all the abbreviations and WELCOME ALL YOU SWITCHERS!!

The backlit keyboard is a $69.00 option for the $1,999.00 15" PowerBook.

Add an Airport Extreme card for $99.00 and you get a good system for $2,168 + tax.

Assuming of course that you don't need a SuperDrive [I already have one in my desktop], that you don't mind getting 3rd party RAM [I don't], and that you don't mind "only" 1Ghz [I don't].

After all, this system is just going to tie me over until next summer/fall when I'll sell it and buy a G5 PowerBook. ;)

Me so horn...um, I mean...happy!!

:D

[sacrilicious]

Won't you have a new game to clock by then?

[MCPeck]

Our hope has been realized!

and....

I am now an official SWITCHER !!

I just ordered my very first Mac !!

1.25 pbook
60gb HD
256MB x 2 pc2700 RAM
Backlit keyboard
Bluetooth and 802.11g

I don't think I can sleep tonight ! (soo excited :D)

[cionheart]

Originally posted by tribalogical
no L3 cache???

poof! there goes the gains from a faster CPU/RAM combo... I can't imagine the boosted L2 will entirely make up for it...

Well, not in every situation but I can remember benchmarks where a G3 with 512 KB L2 cache was faster than a G4 with 256 KB L2 + L3 cache because of the double L2 cache (no Altivec operations, same Mhz). It depends on the situation but all in all I would agree with you, it's more a step back than forward, but a short one :-).

But these new chips are said to need less power, so I guess they run cooler. Man, my PB 12" gets really HOT sometimes :-)

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by MCPeck
Our hope has been realized!

and....

I am now an official SWITCHER !!

...

I don't think I can sleep tonight ! (soo excited :D)

:) Me, too.

[gaijinjim]

Originally posted by true777
Well, at least now they finally *could* safely bring the iBook up to 1Ghz without killing any possible sales of Powerbooks!

IBM is probably sitting on much faster G3 processors right now that Apple just can't put in IBooks until the PBs go G5 in order not to hurt PB sales.

I don't really think it would have killed the sale of PowerBooks considering the target market. iBooks being for consumer, PB being for Pros. But for the average consumer looking at it now, I would think that they would seriously question buying an iBook looking at the small price difference and difference in CPUs. I am.

Up until two weeks ago, I was still using my five-year-old WallSt. before it died on me. I'm not going to waste anymore time on it trying to fix it. May give it one last shot but who knows, but that's beside the point. What I'm trying to say is that I really didn't use the PB for intensive stuff, that's why I have a PMG4. But for new buyers.

Also, I read some where that IBM has a new chip based on the G3 with the Velocity Engine, so Apple could market it as a G4. Can't remember which rumor site I saw that on. Sorry.

[CmdrLaForge]

Hi,

if you lookat the apple site
http://www.apple.com/de/powerbook/index15.html

you will see in the description for the 15" that it has L3 Cache ? So what is true ? Has it L3 cache or not ? Is it just a mistake on the german site ?

Cheers



1,25GHz PowerPC G4, 1MB L3 Cache, AirPort Extreme Karte, Breitformat-Bildschirm, Radeon Grafikprozessor und SuperDrive Laufwerk mit automatischem Einzug: Das 15" PowerBook G4 überzeugt durch atemberaubende Funktionen – und durch einen attraktiven Preis: Das alles ist jetzt schon ab 2898,84 Euro (D) / 2998,80 Euro (AT) zu haben. Die Modelle mit kombiniertem DVD-ROM/CD-RW-Laufwerk sind bereits ab 2318,84 Euro (D) / 2398,80 Euro (AT) erhältlich.

The us apple site says:

Fully loaded with a 1.25GHz PowerPC G4, 512K of L2 cache, AirPort Extreme Card, megawide display, Radeon graphics and a slot-loading SuperDrive, the 15-inch PowerBook G4 boasts jaw-dropping features — including its price: all this is now just $2599. And models equipped with the Combo drive start at just $1999.

[true777]

Originally posted by MCPeck

I am now an official SWITCHER !!



welcome to the family:)

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by sacrilicious
:) Me, too.

Welcome, both of you!

I'm sure I speak for most of us when I say that.

[Wonder Boy]

That's it? What thee F*@K! Im not even getting a powerbook, but thats all. You suck, Jobs.

[Julianne]

I must say I was abit dissapointed to see only a .33Mhz increase in processor speed, but to be able to have 2 gigs of memory and a 64mb video card.... it's almost like a dream come true. Oh yeah can't forget the USB2 as well. (btw I'm talking about the 17" version :) )

[jamesatzones]

Awesome!!!

[bobindashadows]

Yeah.... I'd say that we all got excited, and apple delivered, but I'm still pissed off anyway.

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by MCPeck
I am now an official SWITCHER !!

WELCOME TO THE MAC FAMILY!!

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by sacrilicious
:) Me, too.

WELCOME TO THE MAC FAMILY!!

[rlarose]

Mine is on order now.

15.2-inch TFT Display
1280x854 resolution
1.25GHz PowerPC G4
512K L2 cache
512MB DDR333 SDRAM
80GB Ultra ATA/100
ATI Mobility Radeon
9600 (64MB DDR)
Backlit keyboard
Gigabit Ethernet
FireWire 400 & 800
AirPort Extreme built-in
DVI & S-Video out

This is my 5th Mac, so I am a life-long friend. I am pretty happy with the new 15" - considering I am upping from my old 15" tiPowerBook 550. Now I just need to sell it!

[true777]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
That's it? What thee F*@K!

(...)

You suck, Jobs.

Jeez, what did you expect?
A 3 Ghz G5?

This is a nice update to get Apple gracefully through the months
until they have the PB G5 ready. The new PBs are reasonable choices
for folks who need a PB right now.

[tduality]

Originally posted by hvfsl
I want to see some UT2003 benchmarks on these new PowerBooks (mainly the 15in), I will hold off buying a new PB until then. If they are a lot slower than PC laptops, I will wait until January and hope for a PB G5.

There we go :D ......

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Lack of L3 cache is a suprise.

That's so they've got something to announce at MWSF next year :-)

G5's? Hmm, next Sept I reckon ;-)

e.

[MCPeck]

Thank you for everyone welcoming us to the Dark Side, I am happily surprised by the well-wishers.

Mmmmm, only 3-5 Days

......"Pinky! Are you pondering, what I'm pondering?".......










lol, "I think so Brain, but what if the hippos don't want to wear pajamas?"

[Sun Baked]

>CmdrLaForge

I downloaded the new 09/16/2003 15-inch PowerBook pdf (http://a1344.g.akamai.net/7/1344/51/3579c700e187ea/www.apple.com/powerbook/pdf/PowerBookG415_DS_09162003.pdf)

No mention of Level 3 cache, it may take Apple a couple days to clean up the scattered L3 references on the sites.

[pwm519]

"I must say I was abit dissapointed to see only a .33Mhz increase in processor speed"



No...... that's a 330MHz increase in speed (.33 GHz) and that's a significant increase for any computer manufacturer!

[mrwalker]

Originally posted by Julianne
I must say I was abit dissapointed to see only a .33Mhz increase in processor speed...

I would be too! Luckily it's .33GHz ;-)

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Welcome, both of you!

I'm sure I speak for most of us when I say that.

Ooops!

I didn't see that you had already congratulated them, but the more the merrier!

:p :)

[Photorun]

Damn. I'm so far down.

Anyways, you G5 naive babies were ALL WRONG!!!! I was right. Sooo... I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO!

[Raveny]

It's a of kind of strange...
all european apple sites post that there is L3 cache...
i ordered a 15'' 1.25! they told me that takes 6 business days!

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Hi,

if you lookat the apple site
http://www.apple.com/de/powerbook/index15.html

you will see in the description for the 15" that it has L3 Cache ? So what is true ? Has it L3 cache or not ? Is it just a mistake on the german site ?


Hmm. The same mistake appears to be on the French site too:

http://www.apple.com/fr/powerbook/index15.html

"Modèle entièrement équipé — processeur PowerPC G4 à 1,25 GHz, [B]1 Mo de cache N3[B], Carte AirPort Extreme..."

Strange?

e.

[rlarose]

Originally posted by Raveny
It's a of kind of strange...
all european apple sites post that there is L3 cache...
i ordered a 15'' 1.25! they told me that takes 6 business days!

6 days? They said 2-3 here... damn.

[nydoofus]

So now that 5400 RPM HD's are an option, do any of you think its worth the extra cost?

[beefstu01]

After I wake up, I'll post the link to the pdf, but the processor used in the new PowerBooks is the 7447, not the 7457. They are basically the same processor, but the 7457 has L3 cache.

That said, I ordered mine about an hour ago, right as the site was being bogged down with traffic. Standard 15" 1.25GHz config, except 1 stick of RAM instead of the two. Got an iPod and printer with it, and hope to cash in on the buy a bundle thingy.

[tduality]

Originally posted by CmdrLaForge
Hi,

if you lookat the apple site
http://www.apple.com/de/powerbook/index15.html

you will see in the description for the 15" that it has L3 Cache ? So what is true ? Has it L3 cache or not ? Is it just a mistake on the german site ?



I've seen that, too. A mistake I guess. After the recent iMac update they had GIF left of the iMac picture saying 'up ot 600Mhz G3' or so. Wonder where that came from.

[rdowns]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Hmm. The same mistake appears to be on the French site too:

http://www.apple.com/fr/powerbook/index15.html

"Modèle entièrement équipé — processeur PowerPC G4 à 1,25 GHz, [B]1 Mo de cache N3[B], Carte AirPort Extreme..."

Strange?

e.

The data sheet download at the Apple Store does NOT refer to a L3 cache.

[Julianne]

Originally posted by pwm519
"I must say I was abit dissapointed to see only a .33Mhz increase in processor speed"



No...... that's a 330MHz increase in speed (.33 GHz) and that's a significant increase for any computer manufacturer!


opppss.. mistyped there :eek:

Man...you US guys are so lucky I have to wait 4-6 weeks before I could get one :( I just was about to check out when I seen that much of a delay... :(

[true777]

I noticed that - quite untypically for Apple - the new PB pages
have not one, but several errors in them. A misspell ("spec"/"specs")
in the "processor" link (either the pic or the word, I forget which) from either the 15" or the 17" page (I forget which), making the link broken. Plus, on the 12" page, the "processor" link goes to a non-existing page named powerbook/processor.html, again rendering the link broken.

So this was either a rushed, hasty job, or the processor specs changed
after the pages had been completed? Or they decided to leave out more in-depth processor specs? I notice they don't mention 7457.

[tduality]

Originally posted by pwm519
"I must say I was abit dissapointed to see only a .33Mhz increase in processor speed"



No...... that's a 330MHz increase in speed (.33 GHz) and that's a significant increase for any computer manufacturer!

Exactly. My current PM G4 has 400Mhz. So this update is almost....don't want to think about it.

[tristan]

I knew moto was bad, but to only go 250MHz since the beginning of the year is seriously pathetic.

I think the new machines are good otherwise - 2 gig RAM capacity, Airport Extreme, superdrive, bluetooth, pretty good pricing, etc. And I guess 1.25ghz is fast enough for most people.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great system for anybody, especially a switcher. But if you already have an Apple PB like I do, this isn't really worth an upgrade. It'll just make us even more eager for G5 Powerbooks.

[true777]

Originally posted by tduality
After the recent iMac update they had GIF left of the iMac picture saying 'up ot 600Mhz G3' or so. Wonder where that came from.

Ahh... so I guess it's just the guy messing up who they hired after firing the dude responsible for the G5 spec leak back in June :)

[MCPeck]

the processor used in the new PowerBooks is the 7447, not the 7457


I thought the live transcript from Mac Rumors, and that Frenchie site both said that the new pbooks had the 7457s??

From MacRumors:
Yes, they all have the 7457 Chip.

From keynote.macgeneration.com:
...hmmm, not there anymore, but I know I read it!

[cb911]

LOL Photorun, you must be pleased now. just let it all out... :p

i'm so stoked on the new 15" PowerBooks right now!! :D they'll be my first Mac since i sold my TiBook before WWDC!! w00t for me!!! :D

i'm just hoping that Apple Australia gets it's ass into gear soon!!

[CheekyGit]

12' PB = 133Mhz bus
15" & 17" PB = 167 Mhz bus

I'm a little disappointed with this. The memory speed is twice as much as the bus speed. I don't care what anyone says ... that sounds like a bottleneck to me.

I love the look of the 15". Very nice with AL look. I'm impressed with the capability of up to 2 GB of memory.

My 667Mhz PB will have to do for at least another year. :rolleyes:

CheekyGit :D

[Lord Bodak]

My 12" order was automatically upgraded.

Good things:
Faster chip
More L2 cache
USB 2.0
More onboard RAM
DVI!

Bad things:
Mini-DVI to composite video adapter is listed as "sold separately" (they used to include one)
My estimated ship date moved from 9/24 to 9/25 :(

All in all though, I'm pretty happy...
The 7457 (it obviously has one b/c of the 512K L2 cache... the old chip had 256K as was pointed out in iMac discussions last week) should hopefully solve the heat issue.

[MacQuest]

Originally posted by MCPeck
Thank you for everyone welcoming us to the Dark Side,

We're the "Dark Side?! :confused:

I guess it depends on how you look at it. :)

Originally posted by MCPeck
I am happily surprised by the well-wishers.

Again, welcome.

[usersince86]

If you're in the market for a 12" portable with a combo drive, pay the extra 300 bucks for the PowerBook:


SAME (essentially)
================
12.1-inch TFT display
1024x768 resolution
512K L2 cache
40GB Ultra ATA/100 drive
Combo Drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW)
10/100BASE-T Ethernet
Built-in 56K v.92 modem
FireWire 400

DIFFERENCES (iBook --- PowerBook)
==============================
900Mhz G3 --- 1Ghz G4
128MB SDRAM --- 256MB DDR266 SDRAM
ATI Mobility Radeon 7500 (32MB) --- NVIDIA GeForceFXGo 5200 (32MB)
USB 1.1 --- USB 2.0
AirPort ready --- AirPort extreme ready
(No BlueTooth) --- BlueTooth
VGA, S-Video and composite video --- Mini-DVI video out
$1299 --- $1599


DEFINITELY WORTH THE $300 DIFFERENCE (imho)

[Stelliform]

I have a 15" TiBook with the first revision superdrive. I was kind of hoping to see DVD-RW on this revision. I wish mine could do it. On the flip side, maybe it is an OS limitation, (I know the drive in mine is capable) and Panther will fix it for me. Ahh there is always hope. :D

Welcome all you switchers! I switched Last 15" update and I haven't regretted it. I just switched the family last Friday.

I still Love my Powerbook, but the update wasn't significant enough for me to get a new laptop. I'll wait for the G5's....

[legion]

Originally posted by gloftis
Thank you for straightening me out, hattig. I try to spend as little time in the Wintel world as possible.

Thanks Hattig, as well, I was about to put up a similar post.

NONETHELESS, the APPARENT gap has closed significantly. When you are talking <500 Mhz difference, it doesn't sound to Wintel users like a big deal. I will be curious to see how the PB 17 1.33 does against the P4-M du jour in actual application trials.

The new 17PB will be slower. My P-M 1.6 (about a 2.4-2.6 P4 not mobile) outpaces my desktop windtunnel MDD G4 (dualie, obviously) in all but apps that are fully MP aware. It's not likely that the 17"PB's slight increase will bring it anywhere close. The good thing about the new 17 is the graphics upgrade (it was sorely lacking previously); the bad thing is that looking beyond the fact that the new 17PB will get smacked down in performance, the 17,15,and 12 will get trumped in what used to be a strong point of the Apple laptops: battery life. Most well-implemented P-M machines meet or beat the current/new PB lineup
and they're getting cheaper in battery life. Plus, Dothan (next P-M) is due in December (0.9 micron process, larger L2) which will make it more efficient battery-wise and it'll clock higher (start 1.9 set to go to almost 3) This will be in laptops by 2Q '04, which means if Apple doesn't revamp the linup again in 3 to 4 months, they're gonna fall way behind. Currently, these PBs are sheep in wolves' clothing (they look powerful but are really "i" level.) If the first series of G5 PBs come out in 6 months from now and they only measure up to the current G5 desktops, the speed gap will be huge between G5 2Ghz PBs and Wintel P-M 3Ghz and Apple will have to make another quantum leap to get back in the game (like they've done with moving from Motorola's G4 to IBM's 970)

Remember, the P4 folks are being burdened with Windows!

...notwithstanding....

[Freg3000]

Yeah it was a good update. Especially when compared to my 12" Combo, which I paid $1,799 for in April. The biggest surprise to me was "shipping now." Whatever "now" means......:)

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
My 12" order was automatically upgraded.

Good things:
Faster chip
More L2 cache
USB 2.0
More onboard RAM
DVI!

Bad things:
Mini-DVI to composite video adapter is listed as "sold separately" (they used to include one)
My estimated ship date moved from 9/24 to 9/25 :(

All in all though, I'm pretty happy...
The 7457 (it obviously has one b/c of the 512K L2 cache... the old chip had 256K as was pointed out in iMac discussions last week) should hopefully solve the heat issue.

Slight correction, as far as I know, this is the first machine they've ever made that has Mini-DVI, all the others had mini-VGA. So a different, and probably marginally more expensive part, thus the separate price.

Congratulations on your upgrade too!

[Chryx]

Originally posted by gloftis
So far, nobody seems to have noticed that the WiFi Ghz gap has closed.

The Wintel notebooks with the "New Technology" Centrino processor comes in about 1.4 Ghz, with the bogus hyperthreading system to "accelerate" its effective clock speed.

The PB 17 is now nominally just .67Ghz off that figure with a proven ability to blow the doors off a P4 at 1 Ghz.

I doubt we'll see a PB G5 because of the heat issue, but alll you whiners do a search on the IBM PPC 750VX, which, by some estimations, could reach clock speeds of 3Ghz+

Wow, you're so off the mark there it's astounding..

the Centrino/Pentium-M doesn't have hyperthreading, it's not even BASED on the Pentium 4/Netburst architecture

It doesn't matter how a 1.33Ghz G4 does against a 1Ghz P4, because 1Ghz P4s don't exist, and 1.4Ghz Pentium M's are a LOT faster per clock than the Pentium 4-M

I'd reckon that the 1.4Ghz P-M would still be faster by a pretty big margin, it's a similarly efficient core with twice the L2 cache and a faster bus interface... it won't run OSX tho :)

[legion]

Originally posted by nydoofus
So now that 5400 RPM HD's are an option, do any of you think its worth the extra cost?

Yes. 4200rpm drives are bottlenecks. (of course, it depends on who makes the 5400rpm drive, but since it's 80GB, there's only one manufacturer: HGST-- and it's a good drive.) Toshiba 5400rpm drives are slow by comparison to the HGST/IBM laptop 5400rpm drives. My guess, though, is that ordering the 80GB 5400rpm will delay an order because they just started manufacturing them and there is a limited supply.

[gloftis]

Now that you are part of the Mac family--which one of you referred to as the "Dark Side"-- be prepared for the fact that Mac users are both loyal and dissatisfied.

We just got a 25-33% improvement in processing speed and many of our number are upset that it wasn't an upgrade to dual 3 Ghz G5's.

There is a reason: working with a Mac, especially with OS X, is less stressful than the same experience with Windoze. Hence, to compensate for the lack of stress in their lives, many Mac users obsess about what could have been and pine for next year's technology today.

It is a harmless obsession, other than its effect on purchases; they don't buy the new products because they aren't new enough.

Anyway, welcome to the family!

[crees!]

I could have sworn the 15" Superdrive had TFT XGA??? Just the Super, not Combo. I don't see it listed now?

[CrackedButter]

I don't like the fact that the 17" has a faster processor, the top 15" should be the same specs throughout other than screensize otherwise whats the point in offering 2 15"'s other than with or without SD and BL Keyboard?

Other bad things.

No FW800 on a "pro machine" which is the 12".

I've rated this story as negative.

I buy a laptop based on screen size and weight, features come second, now i cannot buy the laptop i want because i cannot get the features i want. Apple is selling them as though they are powermacs where the processor speed is the most important, when its not.

[DakotaGuy]

Originally posted by Julianne
I must say I was abit dissapointed to see only a .33Mhz increase in processor speed

Ok I have seen a couple of people say this now, they did not speed it up only .33 of a Mhz, it is .33 of a Ghz or a 330Mhz speed bump, which is not bad for Apple.

No L3 cache? Well that will be the improvement on the next rev. just wait and see, a speed bump to 1.6 and L3, but not bad for a G4, it would fly, and so will these.

[AidenShaw]

Originally posted by legion
Yes. 4200rpm drives are bottlenecks. (of course, it depends on who makes the 5400rpm drive, but since it's 80GB, there's only one manufacturer: HGST-- and it's a good drive.)

The specs for the HGST drives show the 5400 using about 50% more power than the 4200 under normal conditions.

I've opted for battery life and cooler running - the minor performance difference will only occasionally be noticeable.

[pfonke]

So is the 12" available now? At the Apple Store pBook page, the 15"" and 17" all have red lettering saying, "Available today." The 12" DOES NOT. When will we have 12" pBooks?

[mrdrumbum]

it's .1 inch thicker! it's humongous now.

[kwajo.com]

Originally posted by Stelliform
I have a 15" TiBook with the first revision superdrive. I was kind of hoping to see DVD-RW on this revision. I wish mine could do it. On the flip side, maybe it is an OS limitation, (I know the drive in mine is capable) and Panther will fix it for me.

you can burn to a DVD-RW, it should work. to erase, go to 'disk copy' (or 'disk utility' in panther) and choose 'erase disk'

you can check out the details in another thread. just do a search

on the PBs, I am happy that the rumor talk will finally move away from powerbook talk, for now. all this talk makes me feel bad about my 17-inch with GeForce4 440 Go which, I don't need to tell you is no Radeon 9600. I can live with being .33 GHz behind, but the video card difference is killing me. but I will keep trucking with my L3 cache. . .







I can't believe the number of times i used "talk" in this post :(

[KLFloyd]

Originally posted by tduality
Exactly. My current PM G4 has 400Mhz. So this update is almost....don't want to think about it.

Same here, 500mhz PB G4...I keep telling myself, "Not until the G5s Not Until the G5s..."

Don't know how much more I can stand this! Though if something unfortunate were to happen to my happy little companion the 12" looks very tempting for the price as something to tide me over.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by legion
Most well-implemented P-M machines meet or beat the current/new PB lineup
and they're getting cheaper in battery life. Plus, Dothan (next P-M) is due in December (0.9 micron process, larger L2) which will make it more efficient battery-wise and it'll clock higher (start 1.9 set to go to almost 3) This will be in laptops by 2Q '04, which means if Apple doesn't revamp the linup again in 3 to 4 months, they're gonna fall way behind. Currently, these PBs are sheep in wolves' clothing (they look powerful but are really "i" level.) If the first series of G5 PBs come out in 6 months from now and they only measure up to the current G5 desktops, the speed gap will be huge between G5 2Ghz PBs and Wintel P-M 3Ghz and Apple will have to make another quantum leap to get back in the game (like they've done with moving from Motorola's G4 to IBM's 970)

On the nail legion! I was slightly taken in by the reality distortion field but thanks to this post I have my feet firmly on the ground again.

The Apple laptops are in serious trouble I'd say. Yes they'll sell well over the next few weeks as the people waiting for 15" upgrades snap them up. But if Apple think they're going to get many (and I know there are some on this board so I'm not ruling it out altogether) switchers because of their powerbooks than they've got a rude awakening ahead of them.

Far too little, far far too late IMHO.

e.

[Fall]

Is the RAM easily updatable in the 15"'s?

I'm going to buy one but i need to be able to load a bit moer in down the track...

oh, and no backlit on the 1ghz 15 is a real bummer, an exxtra $AUD121 i'd rather keep

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by KLFloyd
Same here, 500mhz PB G4...I keep telling myself, "Not until the G5s Not Until the G5s..."

Don't know how much more I can stand this! Though if something unfortunate were to happen to my happy little companion the 12" looks very tempting for the price as something to tide me over.

I'm on the same machine. I keep saying wait for the G5s, but I wouldn't buy a RevA G5 PB anyway, not after the problems I had buying this RevA PB G4. I have to sent it back in the first week, after waiting 2.5 months for it. Plus the case seems a bit flimsy now!

[GroundLoop]

BLAH BLAH BLAH!! So there was a very small speed bump. Would it be so hard to put in higher res displays? and they dropped the L3. This update is such a joke. I will have to wait on my PB purchase until next year.

Hickman

[Nik_Doof]

Yet another Switcher here....

I'm gonna join the ranks soon as my new CC arrives :)

[hmmm]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Hmm. The same mistake appears to be on the French site too:

http://www.apple.com/fr/powerbook/index15.html

"Modèle entièrement équipé — processeur PowerPC G4 à 1,25 GHz, [B]1 Mo de cache N3[B], Carte AirPort Extreme..."

Strange?

e.

The Dutch site show's the same spec as the US site. UK site is, urr down.

[lord_flash]

So, to those of you who remember my agonising about whether to get a Mac or PC, then deciding to hold on and see what the new 15" was like, "Is it what I was waiting for?"

Tricky, really. The Superdrive 15" looks a pretty good deal, by Apple standards, but equally 1.25GHz (i nearly typed MHz there, god knows how many corrections I would have had to endure) sounds pretty weak against the new Pentium Ms, and OS X is quite processor intensive. And there is all this speed talk about caches that goes a little over my head.

On the other hand, it has everything else I was hoping for except 1Gb/RAM as standard, and that can always be solved. It looks like I'm gonna fit in just fine as a Mac user - I'll buy it because it looks wonderful, but I'll gripe that it's innards can't keep pace with intel... :)

(Oh, and I've found the perfect place to buy it too - the tech bit of Selfridge's new store in Birmingham, England Selfridges Birmingham (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3096919.stm) - which is made out of aluminium too)

[usersince86]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
...it is .33 of a Ghz or a 330Mhz speed bump, which is not bad for Apple.

Should say "which is not bad for MOTOROLA"

Apple can't wait to go to only IBM chips --- neither can we (G5 or other).

Just dump Motorola!

[LinuxGigolo]

Originally posted by mrdrumbum
it's .1 inch thicker! it's humongous now.

It also weighs .2lbs more. It's like a freakin' anvil.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by Nik_Doof
Yet another Switcher here....

I'm gonna join the ranks soon as my new CC arrives :)

Well, I can't praise OS X and the general ease of use of Macs high enough. I have an iMac and a dual G5 on order. However, I would think VERY carefully before buying a powerbook right now. If you have to switch, get a 1.6/1.8 G5. If you are going to be anywhere near any other laptop users who may have Pentium M based machines you will soon get pi**ed off I reckon, unless you're just a style guru, in which case good luck to you.

e.

[nazariteguitar]

Pretty sad update if you ask me. 1 YEAR WAIT FOR .33 GHZ, (not to bring up this PC-Mac comparison), but no company BUT Apple could get away with this.

EVEN if the Mac G4 was TWICE as fast as a P4, PC laptop speeds have increased up to 3.2Ghz with H/T and 800Mhz FSB (using a desktop processer).


I think I'll stay with my P4 notebook (HP zd7000), untill Apple puts the G5 in a moble.

Please no flames for my opinion (it is just that MY OPINION).

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by lord_flash
It looks like I'm gonna fit in just fine as a Mac user - I'll buy it because it looks wonderful, but I'll gripe that it's innards can't keep pace with intel... :)

(Oh, and I've found the perfect place to buy it too - the tech bit of Selfridge's new store in Birmingham, England Selfridges Birmingham (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/3096919.stm) - which is made out of aluminium too)

Heh Heh! Ex brummie here :) Cool place to get your book from!

Personally I think you're making the right decision at the wrong time. Although when Apple are going to catch up to the P-M is anyones guess.

If you don't need the portability get a G5. Otherwise, well, at least you're going in with your eyes open it seems.

Good luck and enjoy.

e.

[kwajo.com]

oh, i forgot to mention. the support of the 2GB of RAM is not really new. you can put two 1GB sticks into the previous 17-inch, but it is expensive. but if you look at the BTO page of the new one, you will find that 2GB from apple is too. so that is not exactly a new feature, they have just officially supported the new memory max. I think both will actually take 4GB or something, it's just that the memory modules are not here yet.

[depakote]

I just ordered a 17" powerbook and can't wait to get it! Could anyone tell me what 1.33Ghz is eqivilant to in a PC?Thanks in advance.

Paul

[cing2x]

yum. my first mac.

15.2" 1.25Ghz
512 (1 SODIMM)
80 GB 5200 HD
Combo Drive
AE
Baclit Keyboard
20 GB Ipod
$99 HP printer

all for $2564 (Edu price after BuyaBundle rebate and a special $100 off promo I had, tax and expedited shipping included)

not a bad deal, i think

[mrjamin]

looks like they downgraded the 17":


Featuring a scorchingly fast 1.33MHz PowerPC G4 processor


yeah, that must be scorching! SCORCHING HOT BY TRYING TO RUN OSX AT 1.33MHZ!

what's next? 256kb ram??

ah typos, so much fun :D

[displaced]

Personally, I'd love to any one one of these machines!

After years of following the PC upgrade cycle, new processors, new graphics cards, new versions of Windows, my switch to the Mac two years ago was a breath of fresh air.

I *love* OS X and the applications available with it. Even my weak old G3/500 iMac lets me do stuff that are either not possible on the PC, or are just too much of a pain.

Before I switched, I never properly used a computer-based address book, calendar, etc. I never categorised my MP3s; I thought MP3 players were an unneeded hassle (I had a minidisc player, I now have an iPod). The Mac has met all these routine needs. It's a genuinely useful, reliable tool. The Windows world simply has no answer to how OS X manages personal data.

Apple's 'digital hub' buzzword is a little naff, but it's appropriate. OS X encourages you to make it part of the way you run your life. For instance, I'm out somewhere, computer-less. I might swap numbers with someone, putting the info into my phone. Before I've even got to my front door, the phone and iMac are talking, keeping eachother up to date. All the info I need at all times is with me, and I don't have to raise a finger.

Sorry for the rant. Sometimes I get the feeling the Mac world needs to wake up to what it's got. I spend my working hours supporting a company full of Windows machines, comprised of half-solutions, workarounds, unreliability and shrugged shoulders. From a user's, sysadmin's or techie's POV, OS X is very desirable.

To the Switchers here, welcome! That box soon to be arriving at your front door is capable of almost anything you can think of, and you won't have to spend half your life fighting it to make it happen.

I hope no-one here minds if I encourage switchers to click the link in my signature. MacMentor's devoted specifically to helping switchers explore and understand the Mac. No questions are ever too small or too daft -- drop by if you're ever in need of a hand.

[dwalls32]

Does Apple provide any way to "trade up" for those of us who have only had our 1st edition 17" for a month or so?

[geerlingguy]

Originally posted by Nicky G
The question is, does this particular iteration of the 7457 chip support DDR?

If you check the Tech Specs on Apple's site, it says (at least on the 17" PB) 512 MB PC2700 (333Mhz) RAM

[skymac]

i cant wait to order mine

I will be getting the 1.0ghz 15incher
with optional superdrive and backlit keyboard since
it still comes in at about 500Dollars CAD less than the superdrive
model and i for one dont need the extra 250 mhz.
im soo exited, when im actually gunna get this thing ordered is another question.

btw should I get apple care now or at the end of the first year?

[drivethru]

!! EDIT !!

comparison of power usage

Hitachi 4200 RPM (http://www.hgst.com/hdd/travel/4k80data.pdf)

Hitachi 5400 RPM (http://www.hgst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/D9DA661AA5D3E44B86256CEC0075C7B2/$file/Travelstar5K80-Datasheet.pdf)

Travelstar 4K80
Power Requirement +5VDC(±5%)
Dissipation (typical)
Startup (max. peak) 4.5 W
Seek (average) 2.25 W
Read (average) 2.0 W
Write (average) 2.0 W
Performance idle (average) 0.65 W
Active idle (average) 0.90 W
Low power idle (average) 1.65 W
Standby (average) 0.15 W
Sleep 0.1 W

Travelstar 5K80
Power Requirement +5VDC(±5%)
Dissipation (typical)
Startup (max. peak) 5.0 W
Seek (average) 2.6 W
Read (average) 2.5 W
Write (average) 2.5 W
Performance idle (average) 2.0 W
Active idle (average) 1.3 W
Low power idle (average) 0.85 W
Standby (average) 0.25 W
Sleep 0.1 W
Power consumption efficiency (watts/GB) 0.011/0.014/0.024/0.043

[Hattig]

Originally posted by nazariteguitar
Pretty sad update if you ask me. 1 YEAR WAIT FOR .33 GHZ, (not to bring up this PC-Mac comparison), but no company BUT Apple could get away with this.

EVEN if the Mac G4 was TWICE as fast as a P4, PC laptop speeds have increased up to 3.2Ghz with H/T and 800Mhz FSB (using a desktop processer).

I think I'll stay with my P4 notebook (HP zd7000), untill Apple puts the G5 in a moble.


Simply, Apple do not offer a product in the area you want, which is the extra hot, bulky notebook with short battery life.

A 3.2 P4 with H/T and 800MHz FSB can pump out 90W of heat. Do you expect to see a 1" thick laptop dispersing that? It won't. I wonder how slowly the P4 runs because of thermal throttling...

[VicMacs]

like i said...

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by depakote
I just ordered a 17" powerbook and can't wait to get it! Could anyone tell me what 1.33Ghz is eqivilant to in a PC?Thanks in advance.Well, probably about as fast (raw-power) as the slowest intel Pentium-M chip.

For a detailed comparison (against the G5), check out this post (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35845&perpage=40&pagenumber=7#post468642). Figure that the G4 seems to be about the same, clock-for-clock, as the G5 from other evidence. Now, a 1.4ghz P-M is a pretty impressive machine, so you shouldn't have much to worry about from a usability standpoint. But its certainly nothing to write home about (except in comparison to the previous 1ghz powerbooks). Adding in the fact that OSX offloads some work t o the GPU, and the powerbook is finally right up there with the lower-end to mid-line P-M notebooks.

If you're not doing CPU-intensive work (rendering, compiling, et cetera) the 1.33ghz is fast enough that its not worth worrying about. The 1ghz wasn't quite there, but this should be pretty good.

As somebody else pointed out though, only Apple could get away with a 25% speed bump over 12 months when everyone else is doing 80% bumps - and get applauded for it.

-Richard

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by Hattig
Simply, Apple do not offer a product in the area you want, which is the extra hot, bulky notebook with short battery life.

A 3.2 P4 with H/T and 800MHz FSB can pump out 90W of heat. Do you expect to see a 1" thick laptop dispersing that? It won't. I wonder how slowly the P4 runs because of thermal throttling... Of course, a 1.7ghz (soon to be 1.8ghz) P-M runs as fast as a 2.8ghz P4, and only puts out something like 27 W (can't find it exactly, somewhere on intel's site (http://www.intel.com/performance/resources/mobiletechnology/charts.htm)that I've found before... You can figure a clock-for-clock equivelence with the G4/G5 from the P-M.

Seriously, on the laptop performance front, Apple's just beginning to catch up. In other areas (style, integration), they're far ahead. Just don't talk to me about their crappy (for me) DPI. Why, oh why, can't they offer a high-res screen at least as a BTO option?

-Richard

[nazariteguitar]

Originally posted by Hattig
Simply, Apple do not offer a product in the area you want, which is the extra hot, bulky notebook with short battery life.

A 3.2 P4 with H/T and 800MHz FSB can pump out 90W of heat. Do you expect to see a 1" thick laptop dispersing that? It won't. I wonder how slowly the P4 runs because of thermal throttling...

I agree It would, but for me a want a true desktop replacement powerhouse that I use mainly as a home studio and occasionally will bring to another location (It's all about what you need it for).
I your an average person and just want to do daily things with it, then almost any notebook will be fine, but I was under the impression that these were pro moble powermac, basicly.

[vitrector]

I am continually disappointed that Apple does not provide on board VGA support! I have seen lectures have major delays because the speaker had an Apple laptop and forgot the adapter. It is such a pain to remember these adapters, and I have yet to see a lecture hall that supports hooking up a DVI connection to the projector cable (does this even exist??).
I have sent the critisism of the lacking VGA to Apple via the product feedback and was secretly hoping they would rectify this shortcoming in the current updates. For now, I will have to stick with my bronze keyboard powerbook - the last model to have an included VGA port... I was really looking to upgrade, but I lecture and can't afford to ever forget my VGA adapter!!!
Anyone else ticked about this issue?

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by kwajo.com
you can burn to a DVD-RW, it should work. to erase, go to 'disk copy' (or 'disk utility' in panther) and choose 'erase disk'


Nope, the TiBooks automatically eject a DVD-RW. And if you notice on the specs Apple says that it only burns a DVD-R. Roxio wouldn't even help since the drive ejects the disk as soon as it spins up.

I would love to be proven wrong on this one. But I haven't been able to keep the disk in the drive.

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by vitrector
I am continually disappointed that Apple does not provide on board VGA support! I have seen lectures have major delays because the speaker had an Apple laptop and forgot the adapter. It is such a pain to remember these adapters, and I have yet to see a lecture hall that supports hooking up a DVI connection to the projector cable (does this even exist??).
I have sent the critisism of the lacking VGA to Apple via the product feedback and was secretly hoping they would rectify this shortcoming in the current updates. For now, I will have to stick with my bronze keyboard powerbook - the last model to have an included VGA port... I was really looking to upgrade, but I lecture and can't afford to ever forget my VGA adapter!!!
Anyone else ticked about this issue?

I'd much rather have DVI than VGA. At least with DVI you can get VGA at the same quality as a built in VGA port. Converting VGA to DVI reduces quality and is expensive.

[Bruja]

Well.. It's about time!! I've been waiting for since the beginning of June (my b-day) for them to release the Pbk Which is why I decided to get a "re-loadable" Gift Card from my neighbourhood store (Sommerset) and have been putting monies into the card because I knew that they would release it, I just did'nt know when. It's high time that I get my shop on and purchase that 15" Al Book that I've socked monies away for!! 1st my Cowboys won last night and now this. It feels like Christmas/Yule in Sept.

[Loopy]

When I go out live I use a 700mh iBook this is a wonderful mac and its stating with the family

When in the studio I use a 450mh G4 about 4 years old and has been a wonderful friend but it's time it was turned into dog food/wallpaper paste.

Just joking it can sit in the corner and talk jibberish?

A Mac is for life.

Just ordered the 1.25 15" this is for live when playing gigs

Still waiting for my G52G + 23 LCD this is for the studio

The G5 will be my 17th Mac

I'll be very happy when they come.

[F/reW/re]

Alot of the people who buy these PowerBooks do some sort of design. Why do Apple still use 1280x867 res? 1400 on the 15" and 1600 on the 17" would be great!

Since Apple cant compete with intel on MHz, why dont they do it on RAM, HD and screen? 256 RAM in the 15" . . . :(

To me the 17" now seems like the best buy.

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by dwalls32
Does Apple provide any way to "trade up" for those of us who have only had our 1st edition 17" for a month or so?

Nope, Welcome to Apple. ;) (Although you might find a sucker on E-Bay if it is important to you...)

[vitrector]

Originally posted by robbieduncan
I'd much rather have DVI than VGA. At least with DVI you can get VGA at the same quality as a built in VGA port. Converting VGA to DVI reduces quality and is expensive.

I did not mean to imply VGA over DVI, how about both on the same machine!
It could not be that expensive to add that to the laptop.

[Powerbook G5]

Dude, it is insane that so many are complaining. Seriously, the 12" has everything people have been complaining about not having (DVI! 1 GHZ!) the lack of L3 is in all, but the faster 7457 is overall a faster beast so it doesn't matter to me and I bet it will still be faster than the models that were out just yesterday. And dude, ATi Radeon 9600! OMG! They just gave me my wet dream come true, seriously, we were all trying to accept a damn nVidia and Apple just gave us the one graphics card we wanted *so* badly but knew deep down was just wishful thinking. And what is with this .1" thicker/.2 lbs heavier being *so* massive and heavy now? If you seriously cannot handle that, I think you need to invest in a gym! Sorry, but if my dad were to hear me complain this much he'd give me a stern lecture!

Now, I am like so giddy! Last night I dreamt that Apple came out with an 8 GHz PowerBook and my dad bought me a Subaru Impreza STi, so I am sorely disappointed when I woke up! But alas, I woke up to new PowerBooks, and not only that, the topic title was *exactly* word for word what I was thinking and hoping it would say all summer.

Here is why I am *so* *damn* *happy*:

My current PowerBook New 15" PowerBook
Moto 400 MHz G3 Moto 1.25 GHz G4
512k L2 cache 512k DDR L2 cache
67 MHz Bus 167 MHz Bus
192 megs RAM 512 megs DDR RAM
Possible 384 megs RAM Possible 2 gigs DDR RAM
6 gig 4200 rpm HD 80 gig ATA 5400 rpm HD
8 meg ATi 128M video 64 meg ATi Radeon 9600M
2x DVD-ROM 2x Superdrive DVD/CD-RW
Plastic/6.4 lbs/over 1" thick Aluminum/5.6 lbs/1.1" thick
No FW, no Airport, no bluetooth, FW 800, USB 2.0, Airport
no DVI, no lit up keyboard, no DDR Extreme, Bluetooth, DVI,
dead battery Lit up keyboard, higher
Stuck on OS 9.2 because OS X runs screen res, DDR, better
slower than a Kia with all four tired flat batter7 that actually works
and an 80 year old woman at the wheel Runs OS X!!! Yay, finally!


So there you have it. When you look at the specs back to back between my current PowerBook and the new one I am trying to work on getting, you can see how I am *so* excited about this thing and why it is better than my current PowerBook in *every single possible way*!!! I am getting a single module of 512 megs RAM so it'd be easier and cheaper to get an extra 512 from Crucial later (maybe for Christmas) and I also think I'll up the HD to the higher rpm version because the 4200 in my current book and the one in my sister's Toshiba are slooooowwwwww and I hear the one they are using for the 5400 version is damn nice and fast. I know it may suck battery life down, but the 7457 is supposed to make up for that, plus it'd be better than the 3 seconds I have on my current battery that died over the summer. I am also getting .Mac so I can finally drop AOL because I was just keeping it for my current email address/IM name, but with iChat and .Mac, I can finally ditch AOL for good and have a nice .Mac name. My dad said he'll help me buy it or buy it outright for me, but I offered to pay my own cell phone bill and maybe pitch in $500 or so just because I feel bad making him pay $2500 for me, but my God, this new PowerBook is so exciting. I know it's not the G5 that so many people want (Sure, I'd love for this to be a G5) but honestly, after nearly 5 years on my PowerBook G3, it's about time, and this is one hell of a step forward. This also happens to be my *first* upgrade since I switched, so I can feel even more solid as a Mac user when I finally retire my original switching machine. I have to tell you, this PowerBook G3 has been the most reliable, amazing, refreshing computer I have ever used. It's hard to justify buying a new one, but as I said before, it's about time. I'm not sure if I want to sell it or keep it, though. I'm just afraid that if I sell her, she might not go to a good home like she's had for so long. I might just keep her as reminder of the miracle machine that made me open my eyes and believe in a company that could save me from Windows.

I love Apple. Thank you for this new PowerBook, it is what I have wanted. I seriously hope it will make others of you happy as well, because I know it will make me happy. I know it may be disappointing to some of you, but honestly, this has everything else everyone wanted besides a G5, and for the most part, a lot of us won't even use the full potential of even this G4. Afterall, I've been using a 400 MHz G3 still into the year 2003 and still loving it and thinking it's fast and well up to the task of getting me through college and life in general. I bet a G4 running on Panther will be faster overall than a G5 running on hopes and dreams, anyway ;)

edit: Damn, the columns got messed up. Well, you can still read it anyway since I am too excited drooling over the Apple page to try figuring out how to fix it. :p

[moby1]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
Alot of the people who buy these PowerBooks do some sort of design. Why do Apple still use 1280x867 res? 1400 on the 15" and 1600 on the 17" would be great!

No! Do you sit with your nose to the screen? 1280 is all I can handle on the 15". I know people who work in Word all day who kept their old Ti's because of the 1152 screen.

[brooklyn]

Two-week-old Mac User Here.

I finally saw the light and jump over to the Mac-side two weeks ago. I purchased a 12 PowerBook without knowing that newer models were being released soon. Is it possible (after 2 Weeks) to exchange my two-week old "outdated" model for the current one? I figure I ask here before calling Apple! Thanks.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by moby1
No! Do you sit with your nose to the screen? 1280 is all I can handle on the 15". I know people who work in Word all day who kept their old Ti's because of the 1152 screen. Funny, most other manufacturers provide a BTO option to get a low-res or high-res screen. Besides, you typically are closer to a laptop screen than you would be to a desktop screen, so in a way, the answer to your question is "Yes," just not to the same overblown degree.

-Richard, who really prefers about 125DPI on a laptop

[machem]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
My 12" order was automatically upgraded.

Good things:
Faster chip
More L2 cache
USB 2.0
More onboard RAM
DVI!

Bad things:
Mini-DVI to composite video adapter is listed as "sold separately" (they used to include one)
My estimated ship date moved from 9/24 to 9/25 :(

All in all though, I'm pretty happy...
The 7457 (it obviously has one b/c of the 512K L2 cache... the old chip had 256K as was pointed out in iMac discussions last week) should hopefully solve the heat issue.

I would call and push them to include the adapter. If you bought today, you 'd get one (according to the spec sheet). The idea here is that it shouldn't cost extra to use the hardware. I think if you squeak they will give it to you to shut you up. ;)

[Hemingray]

Well, that's pretty much what I was expecting for the 12" PowerBook... but still no FW800? :( When I get one of these babies, I'd like it to last me several years into the future. Thankfully, I can afford to wait... yay on finally updated 15"s though!

[rog]

New chips, good. No L3, bad. Notice apple says almost nothing about performance on their PB pages. New video cards, good. 32MB VRAM on the 12", very bad. Why not 64 & 128? Why does the 12" pro model still come with only 256 MB RAM? No FW 800 on the 12" and no way to ever add it is bad. All in all pretty disappointing, just as I expected. At least the price drop and speed boost (although maybe not after losing the L3) on the 17" make it less of a bad deal. I don't think this will increase PB sales much. Without the L3, the 15" superdrive model has gained maybe 10% speed in 10 months. Totally unacceptable.

[AGoldman]

Are the sideports on the 15" new? I just switched and bought the new 15", but I don't remember seeing the side ports on the old models in the store. I loved how smooth the outside of the computer was. It's a shame if they changed that.

[MattG]

Originally posted by AGoldman
Are the sideports on the 15" new? I just switched and bought the new 15", but I don't remember seeing the side ports on the old models in the store. I loved how smooth the outside of the computer was. It's a shame if they changed that. Yes the side-ports are new. I like it. I had a 15" 667mhz TiBook, and I hated having to fish around in the back to plug stuff in.

[aras]

YEAH! Its awesome, ordered mine.
Now - where can one get an inexpensive but reliable 1 gig ram chip DDR333 ?

[jxyama]

Originally posted by brooklyn
Two-week-old Mac User Here.

I finally saw the light and jump over to the Mac-side two weeks ago. I purchased a 12 PowerBook without knowing that newer models were being released soon. Is it possible (after 2 Weeks) to exchange my two-week old "outdated" model for the current one? I figure I ask here before calling Apple! Thanks.

No. And your machine is not "outdated."

[tazo]

I think its great to go to macrumors.com [tiz my homepage] and see new updates. It is a wierd feeling, seeing apple update their pages with info etc; it almost seems unreal. Like it couldnt happen :D

YEAH FOR NEW POWERBOOKS

[Lancetx]

Originally posted by brooklyn
Two-week-old Mac User Here.

I finally saw the light and jump over to the Mac-side two weeks ago. I purchased a 12 PowerBook without knowing that newer models were being released soon. Is it possible (after 2 Weeks) to exchange my two-week old "outdated" model for the current one? I figure I ask here before calling Apple! Thanks.

I'm just curious, but I don't know of any PC manufacturers that allow exchanges like this, so why do people expect it of Apple then? They do allow for a 10 day price match thru the Apple store though when a new model is released if you have purchased one that recently.

[danman]

anyone notice yet that the 15" has had a very nice screen rez bump to 1280x854 - the perfect size I reckon.

this truely is the perfect laptop.. my order is going in now!

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by moby1
No! Do you sit with your nose to the screen? 1280 is all I can handle on the 15". I know people who work in Word all day who kept their old Ti's because of the 1152 screen.
If you do Word all day you should get an iBook, not a PowerBook!

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by F/reW/re
If you do Word all day you should get an iBook, not a PowerBook! Ya know, he's got a point. This is supposed to be the pro notebook, aimed at pro users with pro requirements and all that rot.

-Richard

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by AGoldman
Are the sideports on the 15" new? I just switched and bought the new 15", but I don't remember seeing the side ports on the old models in the store. I loved how smooth the outside of the computer was. It's a shame if they changed that. With the hinge on the al dropping the screen down below the back, you wouldn't be able to get to the ports easily (if at all) without them being on the side. And it really lowers the profile of the system when its being used to do that.

-Richard

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by danman
anyone notice yet that the 15" has had a very nice screen rez bump to 1280x854 - the perfect size I reckon.I could have sworn that this was the same resolution that it was a week ago. Am I reallly that forgetful?

-Richard

[rjstanford]

The old 15" came with a 61 watt-hour battery and a claimed 5 hours of battery life. ( http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:VINgc9ZFPkMJ:www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html ).

The new 15" has a 46 watt-hour battery with a claimed 4.5 hours of battery life ( current specifications (http://www.apple.com/powerbook/index15.html) ).

That certainly speaks to better power consumption for the new processor, but isn't it a little disappointing that the battery got 25% smaller to compensate? I mean, it'll charge faster now, but by doing that Apple is staying behind in the battery-life game (compared to some of the 6-7 hour IBMs, for example).

-Richard

[Bruja]

Did anyone happen the notice that the RAM capacity goes to 2Mb but they are alll "SO-DIMM" configurations accross the lines??

Would that mean that we are stuck with at least one chip or two if we decide to keep the "512MB DDR333 SDRAM-2x256 SO-DIMMs" ??

[tristan]

Hey, read my post - it's not that these new machines suck. They're awesome machines and should make anyone real happy, especially a switcher. Heck, if you're trading up from a PC this will seem like manna from heaven.

But as an upgrade, this isn't all that special, and I don't see a lot of people trading in their 667DVIs or 800s for a "shiny new 1.25ghz". The rev just isn't that big a deal. Now if they had put the G5 in (I know it would have been tough, but still), then everyone would have upgraded.

And since when did the 15" become the red headed stepchild? No updates since 11/2002, and then when it comes, it's a 250mhz upgrade. I thought the 15" was the bestseller, the flagship, etc.

So that's why we're complaining - we're happy PB users, but were hoping for something that would really blow us away, not something that would make us say "well, I guess my current TiBook is fine for another six months." :-)

[legion]

drive thru,

You weren't looking at the drive Apple is using in the new PBs (it's an 80GB 5400rpm; only one on the market) You were looking at the old models (that maxed at 60GB.) I interleaved the data below for comparison purposes for what most likely is the 4200rpm drive used (unless Apple screws the customers and goes with a lower performer for the 4200rpm):

Here's the new 5400rpm drive:
Series: 5K80
Size: 80GB
Model: HTS548080M9AT00

Here's the probable 4200rpm drive:
Series: 4K80
Size: 80GB
Model: HTS428080F9AT00

Performance
Data buffer (MB) 8
Data buffer (MB) 8
Rotational speed (rpm) 5,400
Rotational speed (rpm) 4,200
Latency (average ms) 5.5
Latency (average ms) 7.1
Max. media transfer rate (MB/sec) 45.0
Max. media transfer rate (MB/sec) 43.9
Max. interface transfer rate (MB/sec) 100MB/sec Ultra DMA mode-5
16.6MB/sec PIO mode-4
Max. interface transfer rate (MB/sec) 100MB/sec Ultra DMA mode-5
16.6MB/sec PIO mode-4

Seek time (ms)
Average (typical) 12
Average (typical) 13
Track to track (typical) 2.5
Track to track (typical) 3
Full stroke (typical) 23
Full stroke (typical) 24

Power
Requirement +5VDC(±5%)
Dissipation (typical)
Startup (max. peak) 5.0 W
Startup (max. peak) 4.5 W
Seek (average) 2.6 W
Seek (average) 2.25 W
Read (average) 2.5 W
Read (average) 2.0 W
Write (average) 2.5 W
Write (average) 2.0 W
Performance idle (average) 2.0 W
Performance idle (average) 0.65 W
Active idle (average) 1.3 W
Active idle (average) 0.90 W
Low power idle (average) 0.85 W
Low power idle (average) 1.65 W
Standby (average) 0.25 W
Standby (average) 0.15 W
Sleep 0.1 W
Sleep 0.1 W

I'll leave it up to the reader to decide which numbers are most important... :)

About the 330MHz increase,

Despite its appearance it won't amount to much of a direct improvement. Luckily or unluckily (depending if you are an owner or buyer (former vs latter) in the PB market) performance is not a linear scale based on cycles. A 1Ghz machine will not perform twice as fast as a 500MHz machine and similarily a new 17"PB with the 1.33GHz chip is not going to equate to the power of an old 17"PB (1GHz) + an older PB at 350MHz.

also of note
the new 15 is heavier than it's previous one at 5.6lbs (probably the reason why they reduced the battery--old cheap trick from laptop makers to reduce weight if they start getting too heavy) which makes it heavier than the T40p IBM.

[drastik]

Having watched the updates come and go for a year and a hlaf, the only thing I know for certain is that someone is going to complain to no end that they didn't get everything they could poissibly want for $1000. I'll say it again: If you think Macs are such a bad deal, go buy a PC and bug off.

That said, I think the updates are spot on. Apple isn't going to overshadow the G5 with Powerbook speeds near the same level. For mobile uses, these things are faster and better than ever. If you want a desktop, get one.

Sometimes I think you people would complain the our porche burns too much gas.

[reflex]

Originally posted by nydoofus
So now that 5400 RPM HD's are an option, do any of you think its worth the extra cost?

Not for regular use. It's nice for when you're streaming to and/or from harddisk though (video, music, ...).

[Powerbook G5]

My girlfriend has complained without end that I never dance...well today she is going to be quite pleased because not only was last night our 11 month anniversary, but I am getting a new PowerBook. Today, I am going to dance. Oh hell yes, I am going to dance, because I am getting a new PowerBook and by this time next week (hopefully) I will finally be using OS X.

...and I shall be called the Lord of the Dance!

[Bruja]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
My girlfriend has complained without end that I never dance...well today she is going to be quite pleased because not only was last night our 11 month anniversary, but I am getting a new PowerBook. Today, I am going to dance. Oh hell yes, I am going to dance, because I am getting a new PowerBook and by this time next week (hopefully) I will finally be using OS X.

...and I shall be called the Lord of the Dance!

You go boy!! ;)

[milksheikh]

OK, so if you buy a PB today, will Apple offer a $20 (or less) upgrade to Panther when it is released? Any thoughts (based on previous "Up-to-date" programs)?

[rjstanford]

I'm surprised that there hasn't been more discussion about delivery times. I like the fact that they stocked up on them enough to be able to meet demand, although I'll be more impressed when people actually start getting their orders in the 3-5 days promised! At least they seem to have learned that lesson (again) from the G5 debacle.

-Richard

[benoda]

Does anyone know if the Apple Stores (brick and mortar) will have these in stock today? (I guess I'm asking people on the East coast where they should be open already)

Thanks

[tristan]

Originally posted by drastik
Sometimes I think you people would complain the our porche burns too much gas.

Actually, back when i had a boxster, i did complain about the gas milage. :-D I was at the gas station twice a week buying premium.

Wish i still had that car - had to sell it to fund an MBA+living expenses. And now I'm stuck in a white collar recession so I can't afford a new one. But thankfully a Powerbook is a lot cheaper that a Porsche so I can still manage that. :-D

Anyway, my point is, if you spend a lot of money on something, you are allowed to complain about it occasionally. :-) Apple has enough of my money so I don't feel too bad about criticizing them once in a while, or telling them what they need to do in order to get even more of my money, sooner!

[reflex]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Ya know, he's got a point. This is supposed to be the pro notebook, aimed at pro users with pro requirements and all that rot.

Maybe the pros should get a dual 2GHz G5 with a huge LCD screen of their liking?

[Potus]

He turns.
He jumps.
He SCORES!!!!

[buffalo5]

Originally posted by gaijinjim
Is it just me or do the new prices of the PowerBook kill any possible sales of iBooks? A 12" PowerBook is $1799 vs. a 14" iBook at $1778. More power and for a $100 more Airport Extreme. Where were the iBook updates?

Exactly, there needs to be either an update or a price reduction on the iBooks.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by reflex
Maybe the pros should get a dual 2GHz G5 with a huge LCD screen of their liking? Unfortunately, packing it up for business trips is inconvenient. Not to mention the inevitable annoyances of trying to use such a system on a plane.

-Richard

[F/reW/re]

Originally posted by reflex
Maybe the pros should get a dual 2GHz G5 with a huge LCD screen of their liking?
Yeah, bringing a G5 with a 23" HD display on the plane would be great!

[justytylor]

The Apple Store in in Clarendon (Arlington, VA) has the 15" SuperDrive models in stock and on display. Woohoo! I know where I'm dropping by after work!

[macktheknife]

Why does Apple only offer hard drives w/ 4200 RPM for the 15 inch models? A 5100 RPM 80 GB hard drive is offered for an extra $200, but that's too much for storage.

[MadMan]

Originally posted by Nicky G
And the prices?! Is this the cheapest the lineup's ever been? Best value, definitely -- I can't believe the 17" is $3K, with Superdrive and 512MB! Holy Cow!!!

Lotsa people buyin' Powerbooks today, fo' sho'. :)

Placed my order for a tricked out 17 w 1.5GB RAM, 5400rpm drive and a whole bunch of other goodies:D

5-7 Business days on the PB, so hopefully they have a good supply and it's only the CTO that's going to take that time:rolleyes: (NO repeat of the G5 fiasco, please!)

Seems like a good update, even without a G5 ;)

At least, I'm happy with it!

:cool:

MM

[finniii]

In the time it took to read this thread the stock appears to have depleted BIG TIME. The shipping date for my 15" is estimated as 4-6 WEEKS! Quite a shock after reading the other posts here...
:confused: :mad:

[JBracy]

Originally posted by brooklyn
Two-week-old Mac User Here.

I finally saw the light and jump over to the Mac-side two weeks ago. I purchased a 12 PowerBook without knowing that newer models were being released soon. Is it possible (after 2 Weeks) to exchange my two-week old "outdated" model for the current one? I figure I ask here before calling Apple! Thanks

[i]Originally posted by jxyama
No. And your machine is not "outdated."

Actually, yes you can. Here is the quote from the email invoice from the AppleStore:

RETURN & REFUND POLICY If you are not satisfied with your Apple purchase of a
pre-built product, please call 1-800-676-2775 for a Return Material Authorization
(RMA) request within 10 business days of the receipt of the product. If the item
is returned unopened in the original box, we will exchange it or offer you a
refund based on your original method of payment. The product must be returned to
the Apple warehouse within 10 business days of the issuance of the RMA. All
products must be packed in the original, unmarked packaging including any
accessories, manuals, documentation and registration that shipped with the
product. A 10% open box fee will be assessed on any opened hardware or accessory.
If you purchased your order using an Apple Instant Loan or an Apple Business
Lease, you may be asked to provide a major credit card (Visa, MasterCard,
American Express, or Discover) for Apple to assess the 10% open box restocking
fee.

Please note that Apple does not permit the return of or offer refunds for the
following products:

1. Product that is custom configured to your specifications
2. Opened memory
3. Opened software
4. Electronic software downloads


So basically if it's within 10 business days of when you recieved it, and you're willing to get stuck with a 10% restocking fee, then call Apple.

[nickmcghie]

Originally posted by true777
how come everyone just so happens to be up so late tonight ? :)

umm not all mac users live in the US..

i hate ignorant americans :mad:

[Frobozz]

Good prices, good performance. Overall, I'm psyched about the top of the line 15" model and the option for a 5400 RPM drive.

[MacSA]

I was going to get an iBook, but they really dont seem like good value anymore - a major upgrade or a major price cut is needed.

[actripxl]

Well thats it im getting a PB, but i just need Panther to be released since im not thrilled about ordering a new 15" and then having to purchase panther in a month or so. Well I guess its a good thing I can't buy one till December.

[crees!]

Originally posted by justytylor
The Apple Store in in Clarendon (Arlington, VA) has the 15" SuperDrive models in stock and on display. Woohoo! I know where I'm dropping by after work!

I think I might just stop by after class... or skip out of class early just to take a peak since I'm in Rosslyn.

[Foxer]

Originally posted by nickmcghie
i hate ignorant americans :mad:

Maybe you should take it down a notch there, Tex.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by milksheikh
OK, so if you buy a PB today, will Apple offer a $20 (or less) upgrade to Panther when it is released? Any thoughts (based on previous "Up-to-date" programs)?

No, if the history is any indication.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by JBracy
Actually, yes you can. Here is the quote from the email invoice from the AppleStore:



So basically if it's within 10 business days of when you recieved it, and you're willing to get stuck with a 10% restocking fee, then call Apple.

look, he's had his for 2 weeks, which is at least 10 business days. with 10% stocking fee, it's not an "upgrade" - it's a return followed by another purchase.

if he's willing to pay $150+ to "upgrade" (not to mention "waiting" for the new 12" PB like others), then be my guest... but as he was originally asking, trading in your recently upgraded computer for the new one, the answer is no, as it is for most other computer vendors, i believe.

[jeremy.king]

Anyone take a look at the apple store for education prices?

$100-$300 discount for those new powerbooks.

Get a 15" superdrive for $2299...Thats pretty good!

I love being married to a teacher :) :)

[legacyb4]

I'm flip flopping between the two; just doing a simple price comparision ignoring the bells and whistles (Bluetooth, USB 2.0, etc.), I get:

"Onboard" stock memory
BTO to 60GB drive
Combo drive
Airport (or Extreme card)
Apple Care

iBook 12" = $1,677
PB 12" = $2,097

Still a $420 difference as far as straight cash goes and will contribute to a new 17-40 F4.0 L lens for my Canon quite nicely...

How much lower "should" the iBook be?

Cheers.

Not to mention out here in Japan, we are seeing some odd price discrepancies for BTO options. Even with the exchange rate inflated, the unit out here is costing at least $150-200 more...

Originally posted by MacSA
I was going to get an iBook, but they really dont seem like good value anymore - a major upgrade or a major price cut is needed.

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by machem
I would call and push them to include the adapter. If you bought today, you 'd get one (according to the spec sheet). The idea here is that it shouldn't cost extra to use the hardware. I think if you squeak they will give it to you to shut you up. ;)

The spec sheet says:
S-video and composite video output using mini-DVI to video adapter (sold separately) (12-inch models)

I guess I could call and complain b/c I'm actually losing a feature from the model I ordered (the old 12" came with this video adapter). However, I am gaining quite a bit :)

[AllenPSU]

I ordered a 15 GB iPod and at 12" PB (60 GB HD, 640 MB Ram, COMBO, and APE Card) on 9/4/03. Both were upgraded to the new products before shipping.

The iPod was upgraded to the 20GB model at no additional charge. It shipped last Thursday.

The new 12" PB is configured with (60 GB HD, 768 MB RAM, COMBO, and APE Card) at the same price as the orginal ($1668). That system would now cost ($1803) at Apple Education Store so I am extrememly blessed. :D

The PB is scheduled to ship 9/25/03.

[JBracy]

Originally posted by jxyama
look, he's had his for 2 weeks, which is at least 10 business days. with 10% stocking fee, it's not an "upgrade" - it's a return followed by another purchase.

if he's willing to pay $150+ to "upgrade" (not to mention "waiting" for the new 12" PB like others), then be my guest... but as he was originally asking, trading in your recently upgraded computer for the new one, the answer is no, as it is for most other computer vendors, i believe.

Man, chill.

My point was that technically if he really wanted the new one and had had his current one for less than 10 BUSINESS days (2 weeks is exactly 10 business days FYI) then he could return it and buy the new one. If he does not have all of the origional packaging, then he will get stuck with a 10% charge, but if everything is exactly like new then he's OK.

I just got my 17" last week, so I'm debating sending it back and getting the 15", but probably won't as I got it for $2500 through an Apple employee.

[noel4r]

hmm, i wonder why they didn't use the 1.42 Ghz for the top end? ahh, they'll probably use that for the update 1 year from now and move the 1.33 Ghz for the 12". year of the laptop huh?

[new user]

since this fits into the realm of speculation, one of my main concern with the 12ai was the heat issue. does anyone care to guess how the update answered that issue? i'll stop by the store and hope to check out first hand this weekend, but if anyone wants to input any assumptions i'll appreciate it.

i do like the updates, by the way. it's not the world, but it's pretty nice.

thanks.

[legion]

Originally posted by Frobozz
Good prices, good performance. Overall, I'm psyched about the top of the line 15" model and the option for a 5400 RPM drive.

But on the PC side, 7200rpm drives are the option these days... Apple's behind on hard drive specs (again.) The difference in performance from a 5400rpm to 7200rpm is greater than a 4200rpm to 5400rpm; hard drive tech for laptops has advanced that much (I've done all of these upgrades and I couldn't imagine going back down to 5400rpm)

[Marc the Mac]

Originally posted by cybermat
Is the new 15" the same thickness as the previous 15"? or did they trim some fat from the 12"? They have the same thickness now according to the specs.

Honestly, does the additional .25Ghz make a lot of difference? I am deciding between the 12" superdrive and the 15" superdrive.

Thanks for your input.

I think one advantage of the 1.25ghz is that it comes with the backlit keyboard. The 1ghz does not have a backlit keyboard according to the specs on the apple store.

[doubting_me]

I just ordered my new 12 inch, and would like to upgrade the ram. I always do this with a 3rd party (transintl - they have been great to me) and would like to place my order now, so I don't even have to turn on my new machine with its pokey 256.

My questions is, will the ram being sold for the 12 inch 867 work with the 12 inch 1ghz?

I think it will, but that is a big purchase to make a mistake on!

----
12 in 1Ghz
60 gig
APE
iSight
External Mouse (Kenningston -love scrwhl)

[Photorun]

Explain exactly the true advantage of a backlit keyboard aside from the "oooh ahhh" factor?

[NoPrideELF]

Best things for me??? By waiting this long, I:
1)Got a better 15"
2)Got a better ipod for same price (40GB)
3)Still saved $300 through education
and SURPRISINGLY (if their estimates are correct) 4)Got ALL this stuff in time for the ipod and printer rebates!! (Totalling another $300 savings). Quite a deal I must say. 8Þ

[J. Charles Holt]

I know a lot of people were hoping for G5 laptops (heck, some were absolutely certain they'd be announced).

Don't hold your breath... it takes a long time to engineer something like that, and quite a bit longer to get it ready for market. And, of course, there's the question of cooling (ask anyone with a 12" PB if they want a machine that runs "just a few degrees hotter").

I wouldn't expect to see G5 laptops before Q2 of next year. That's why I bit the bullet and bought a G5 desktop. Plus, with the laptops I'd wait until at least Rev. B before buying.

[NoPrideELF]

Originally posted by Photorun
Explain exactly the true advantage of a backlit keyboard aside from the "oooh ahhh" factor?

It seems you underestimate the "oooh ahhh" factor. Very powerful indeed it is.

[doubting_me]

The US store, under specs, shows:

"mini-DVI to DVI adapter, mini-DVI to VGA adapter"

under standard video accessories. So, to the best of my knowlede, the ones you can purchase are for extras or replacements, because this model should come with one. Don't know about the previous models with updates.

[mdntcallr]

Nice technology. Great looking powerbooks.

Only thing is they ought to have been released in June.

now they are getting a bit slow in comparison to what they ought to have been by now.

Ahhh.... i think i want them to update the ibook and then i will go out and get a G5 laptop when they come in the spring

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by doubting_me
I just ordered my new 12 inch, and would like to upgrade the ram. I always do this with a 3rd party (transintl - they have been great to me) and would like to place my order now, so I don't even have to turn on my new machine with its pokey 256.

My questions is, will the ram being sold for the 12 inch 867 work with the 12 inch 1ghz? Nope, sure won't. Talk to Crucial (they have live support). Basically, you need PC2700 RAM. BTW, they don't carry the 1gb piece yet, but they have the 512mb ones for $87. If the 256mb wasn't soldered in, you could just get two of 'em. Ah, well. Still, it sure beats the $300 Apple wants you to pay for the upgrade.

-Richard

[legion]

Originally posted by Photorun
Explain exactly the true advantage of a backlit keyboard aside from the "oooh ahhh" factor?

agreed...

I've used it and other than peaking other people's interests, it's functionality leaves a bit to be desired. The demand seems to come from the "have-not"s not the "have"s. (I guess you're more "Apple"y if you have a backlit keyboard, even if it is pretty useless for typing in the dark)

[Photorun]

If only they had the ordering option of having a non-backlit keyboard knocking off $100 from the price I'd do it. And with my edu discount that'd make the 1.25 15" only $2199... not too shabby!

[Loopy]

Originally posted by Photorun
Explain exactly the true advantage of a backlit keyboard aside from the "oooh ahhh" factor?

I play live this is a very useful thing to have on stage. Also in the studio.

[NavyIntel007]

Originally posted by Julianne
I must say I was abit dissapointed to see only a .33Mhz increase in processor speed, but to be able to have 2 gigs of memory and a 64mb video card.... it's almost like a dream come true. Oh yeah can't forget the USB2 as well. (btw I'm talking about the 17" version :) )

First off it's 330 Mhz increase. The old 17" had the ability to take 2 GB of ram, this is nothing new. Same with the 12".

Too bad I didn't wait. Needed a new laptop in june.

[Photorun]

Wow! Actually through the Apple edu store if I reconfigure the 1.25 15" PB down to the 60 GB HD, drop the RAM down to 256 (3rd party is much cheaper than Apple anyways) and opt for the combo drive as opposed to superdrive it brings the price under $2,000!

Giddyup!

[NavyIntel007]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by doubting_me
[B]I just ordered my new 12 inch, and would like to upgrade the ram. I always do this with a 3rd party (transintl - they have been great to me) and would like to place my order now, so I don't even have to turn on my new machine with its pokey 256.

My questions is, will the ram being sold for the 12 inch 867 work with the 12 inch 1ghz?

I think it will, but that is a big purchase to make a mistake on!



Yes, it works.

[KLFloyd]

Originally posted by skymac
btw should I get apple care now or at the end of the first year?

Just my two cents...

Wait to order Apple Care and take the year to think about it before you buy it on an impulse. I've owned Macs for 18 years now and I've bought AppleCare on a few models and thankfully have never had to use it so I've just blown the money.

If you think about it, most problems you encounter are software related so if you feel comfortable troubleshooting software without calling Apple Tech support then you've got yourself covered for the most part. Now, taking into account hardware failures, most serious failures due to a problem with a machine are going to happen in the first year of ownership when you're covered anyway. Either you got a bum model or you didn't. So you're covered there.

Keep in mind AppleCare doesn't cover anything like accidental damage or theft which are going to be your primary source of hardware problems.

So, in my opinion, if you feel comfortable troubleshooting software issues then AppleCare is just a waste of your money. You're much better off spending a few bucks a year and adding on some supplemental Laptop Coverage onto your home owners or renters insurance policy.

[FlamDrag]

The backlit keyboard is pretty much a non-factor if typing a paper or something in the dark, but it is quite nice if you're trying to do work in photoshop, flash, pyware or other programs where your hands frequently move to hotkeys or are moved away from the keys and need to be reset.

It's a quite handy feature in certain cituations, but by no means a necessity.

[wildmac]

Late Breaking News!!!!

Apple just announced that the Univeristy of Hawaii has purchased 1,500 new powerbooks in order to create the world's largest MP3 distribution center.

As a result, all 15" and 17" powerbooks will be delayed another month.

In addition, all 12" models will be sent to K-12 users in Peru.

Finally, any orders for the new systems will be converted to iBooks, so they ship on time.

An unrelated press release spoke of Apple's ability to produce hardware in a timely manner.

[dongmin]

I don't think anyone should be disappointed by this update. It's not anything to blow us away, but exactly what's been rumored. Anyone that was hoping for a G5...well, you set yourself up for a major disappointment.

Hear me now, there will be no G5 PBs at MWSF2004. I think the best case scenario is for a March-April time frame, but probably more like May. It all depends on when the .09 process 970s ship in volume, not before March for sure.

[jxyama]

Originally posted by JBracy
Man, chill.

My point was that technically if he really wanted the new one and had had his current one for less than 10 BUSINESS days (2 weeks is exactly 10 business days FYI) then he could return it and buy the new one. If he does not have all of the origional packaging, then he will get stuck with a 10% charge, but if everything is exactly like new then he's OK.

I just got my 17" last week, so I'm debating sending it back and getting the 15", but probably won't as I got it for $2500 through an Apple employee.

if you open the box, you get charged the 10%. does not matter if you have all the packaging or not. "restocking fee" compensates for the fact once a machine is returned, apple can no longer sell it as "new" and only as a "refurb" even if it's in mint condition.

sorry about the tone, i wasn't mad or anything... :rolleyes:

[gloftis]

Originally posted by nickmcghie
umm not all mac users live in the US..

i hate ignorant americans :mad:

I believe Nick was trying to be funny.

I'm not partial to anyone who jumps to conclusions without available information...it's like jumping off a building without anything to land on--it's going to hurt and make you look dumb!

[crees!]

I don't know too much about Watts/Volts and junk but comparing the 4200rpm to the 5400rpm, how much hotter and wear on the battery life do you all expect the faster drive will have? The previous stats posted are foreign to me and I need someone to translate.. thanks.
:)

[gloftis]

Originally posted by Photorun
Explain exactly the true advantage of a backlit keyboard aside from the "oooh ahhh" factor?

1. We aren't all touch typists.
2. When your eyes turn 50, you'll understand

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by doubting_me
The US store, under specs, shows:

"mini-DVI to DVI adapter, mini-DVI to VGA adapter"

under standard video accessories. So, to the best of my knowlede, the ones you can purchase are for extras or replacements, because this model should come with one. Don't know about the previous models with updates.

But the third adapter, mini-DVI to video, is sold separately ($19 on the Apple store)

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by dongmin
I don't think anyone should be disappointed by this update.A 25% speed improvement and a new case after 11 months of waiting? At least when it comes to computers, that's not really that big of a deal. It only seems like one because of the extended period of nothing before it.

-Richard

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by new user
since this fits into the realm of speculation, one of my main concern with the 12ai was the heat issue. does anyone care to guess how the update answered that issue? i'll stop by the store and hope to check out first hand this weekend, but if anyone wants to input any assumptions i'll appreciate it.


The 7457 uses less power so logically it should dissipate less heat.

A lot of the rumors said they were going to try and get the 12" down to 1" thick, and they didn't-- I would guess that the thinner model ran too hot so they left it alone.

[Photorun]

Thank god I'm not 50!

[gloftis]

Originally posted by Photorun
Thank god I'm not 50!

Reaching 50 beats the heck out of the alternative!

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by gloftis
1. We aren't all touch typists.
2. When your eyes turn 50, you'll understand

It also makes it a killer presentation machine. (Connected to a projector.) Then you can be at the podeum without an extra light on the keyboard.

<Sorry for the spelling, on a PC ATM. :()

[sebaz]

I have my 12 in pbook for a month already..after seeing that new 12 in. has DVI out and its compatible (after the 99 dollars adapter) with Apple displays, im wondering:

Can u buy the DVI out cable (im guessing its like the VGA out)? and do u think the old 12 in pbook videocard could support at least a 20" apple display?

[panphage]

No G5, oh well...BUT: 7457's!!! 12" w/DVI-out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, where's my credit card?

[Master Fwiffo]

Just ordered mine. Looks great but...

4-6 WEEKS??? WHAT HAPPENED TO 3-4 DAYS????????????? :( :(

*sobs uncontrolably*

On the plus sde, my tricked out 1.25 ghz 15 inch with backlight, and 1 gig of ram colst me 2500 thanks to student discount :D

[Doctor Q]

Originally posted by NoPrideELF
Best things for me??? By waiting this long, I:
1)Got a better 15"
2)Got a better ipod for same price (40GB)
3)Still saved $300 through education
and SURPRISINGLY (if their estimates are correct) 4)Got ALL this stuff in time for the ipod and printer rebates!! (Totalling another $300 savings). Quite a deal I must say. 8Þ Grrrr. On the flipside, I missed out on (1) and (2) because my deadline was the start of school. I had to buy last month. Grrrr.

[panphage]

Originally posted by Lord Bodak
The 7457 uses less power so logically it should dissipate less heat.

A lot of the rumors said they were going to try and get the 12" down to 1" thick, and they didn't-- I would guess that the thinner model ran too hot so they left it alone.

That bad left wrist rest heat on the al12 is the hard drive. Maybe they've gone with a different HDD model...maybe not...

[iPC]

I am not going to bother reading all the posts....

L2 cache is faster and more important than L3 cache is.

Doubling the L2 far outgains losing the L3. It also makes the hardware slightly less complicated, which is a good thing!

L3 cache was used as a stopgap measure before due to the inadequate amount of L2 cache on previous gen G4's.

[Lord Bodak]

Originally posted by panphage
That bad left wrist rest heat on the al12 is the hard drive. Maybe they've gone with a different HDD model...maybe not...

True, but still... less total heat inside the case should help.

[vancenase]

since you must 'purchase and take possession' before 9/27, and the est ship date is 4-6 weeks, does that mean the rebate is bunk now?

[mspock]

I read may benchmark that said that a 1ghz mac (133 bus, sdram) were at least eqal to a 1,5 P4 desktop so a 1,33 ghz (167 bus, ddr ram) should be at least equal to a 2.1 - 2.2 ghz P4 desktop. Not to bad for a portable. Plus, panther is suppose to bring about 15-20 % more speed to your G4

Last year I work on after effect project all day long on a Athlon XP 1,2 ghz (512 ram) and it get the jobs done very well...now we have P4 running at 2.4 ghz (1 gig ram) and the job is not going 2X faster....so these powerbook will be just fine..even for the most demanding PROSUMER

Ad to this FW 800, bluetooht, backlight keyboard and airport extreme and it's a pretty good deal I say.

according to Tom's Hardware, a P4M running at 2.5 ghz is roughly equal to a 2.1-2.2 ghz P4 desktop. SO PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SPEED.

The real thing is the OS and the software.


Sorry for my english I normally speak french (Quebec)

[vancenase]

i heard that the panther will result in a significant 'speed increase', on the OS side, vs. jaguar ... is this true?

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by rjstanford

doing CPU-intensive work (rendering, compiling, et cetera) the 1.33ghz is fast enough that its not worth worrying about. The 1ghz wasn't quite there, but this should be pretty good.
-Richard

I have to agree. No one in their right mind would use a laptop for their main 3D modeling machine.. although travelling it can work. Apple is about the feature set. Just because the mobile is a little slower than the PC doesn't mean it's not mch more useful.

I, for one, am seriously looking at the 1.25 Ghz 15".

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by vancenase
i heard that the panther will result in a significant 'speed increase', on the OS side, vs. jaguar ... is this true?

Yes, it does. It's as fast as OS 9 in single processor tasks, and (obviously) much faster when running more than one.

My ovbservations are subjective, but GUI lag was not a concern on an 800 Mhz iMac that I've tested it on (pretty thoroughly I might add.)

I think perceived lag on laptops will be a thing of the past. I am MORE excited for Panther than I was for Jaguar. Since OS X was introduced, I think Panther is going to be the most significant update. I'm VERY impressed with the feature set and performance.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by Photorun
Thank god I'm not 50!

Hahaha. Yes, but when you're 50 you'll be saying "thank god I'm not 60."

[MacFan26]

Originally posted by Frobozz

I am MORE excited for Panther than I was for Jaguar. Since OS X was introduced, I think Panther is going to be the most significant update. I'm VERY impressed with the feature set and performance.

Indeed. I was hoping that Panther might have been officially released yesterday, but oh well. I'm so excited for the end of the year so I can get it, it can only be a few months more.

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by legion
But on the PC side, 7200rpm drives are the option these days... Apple's behind on hard drive specs (again.) The difference in performance from a 5400rpm to 7200rpm is greater than a 4200rpm to 5400rpm; hard drive tech for laptops has advanced that much (I've done all of these upgrades and I couldn't imagine going back down to 5400rpm)

Yes, indeed. My only concern with a 7200 RPM drive is that, like almost any PC laptop, the battery life would be about an hour and a half. I think with a 5400 you might have a happy medium of performance to battery life. PC users are used to having crappy laptops.

I would like to see some numbers on the drive performance, since the lower RPM drive may be just about as fast but add an hour to the battery life....

[lord_flash]

Originally posted by mspock
according to Tom's Hardware, a P4M running at 2.5 ghz is roughly equal to a 2.1-2.2 ghz P4 desktop. SO PLEASE STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT SPEED.

The real thing is the OS and the software.

But what's that got to do with a powerbook, which is well behind? It's a perfectly legitimate complaint - Apple computers are, for the most part, less responsive than PCs. When I click on a menu option in OS X (on a 700MHz eMac with 386Mb) it takes a perceptable amount of time for the menu to appear - not so on my Windows machine. This is the sort of thing that really worries me as a potential switcher considering a Powerbook 15" 1.25GHz.

Just how much faster will my (probable) new PB be compared to my work eMac?

Or are you guys basically saying that I should stick to wintel if I want speed? After all, why jump down people's throats the second they suggest that quicker computers would be nice? 25% in 11 months isn't Moore's law, is it?

[Frobozz]

Originally posted by MacFan26
Indeed. I was hoping that Panther might have been officially released yesterday, but oh well. I'm so excited for the end of the year so I can get it, it can only be a few months more.

One other thing I noticed, since we're on the subject, was that animations took less time in Panther. It might be that some of the "speed up" is due to less whiz-bang animation time. For example, the dialog moxes that come down from the titlebar of a window happen in maybe a half second. They used to take over a second... and I don't think that was because of a processor limitation. I think it was a hardcoded timeframe.

A lot of perceived slowness in a GUI can be the "snappiness" factor of elements. The less time you spend animating from point A to point B, the faster the perceived performance. That's why OS 9 windows would seem faster... they wouldn't wait around for a nice animation, etc.

Your thoughts?

[reflex]

Originally posted by rjstanford
Unfortunately, packing it up for business trips is inconvenient. Not to mention the inevitable annoyances of trying to use such a system on a plane.

I know. But saying someone should get an iBook just because they mostly do wordprocessing is lame too.

Btw, I don't mean to cause offense. I just mean you shouldn't decide for other people what kind of computer they should get. For me, a good resolution for a 15" screen would be 1024x768 (wider for widescreen obviously), so the current 15" resolution is stretching it a bit already.

[MacFan26]

I agree, it seems like they are fast too, although it might not be less animations, they just are able to change the OS to respond faster. It would be nice to have the "fast windows" from OS 9 into OS X.