Apple Wireless Keyboard and Mouse

[MacRumors]

Apple released a Wireless Keyboard and Mouse (http://www.apple.com/keyboard/) today.

The new peripherals cost $69.00 each and look similar to their wired counterparts. Both requires Mac OS X 10.2.6 or later and a bluetooth interface on your Macintosh.

The Keyboard uses 4 AA batteries while the Mouse uses 2 AA batteries. The batteries for the Keyboard are said to last 9 months, while the batteries for the Mouse are said to last 3 months.

[scottlee]

OMG... still one button and no scroll wheel !! :rolleyes:

[mvc]

Where is the second button and the scroll wheel - this is a very weak offering.

Damn thing looks like a dildo. ( A very wide one perhaps):p

[usersince86]

Just one button on the mouse - still.

Why?!?!?

[DanUk2003]

one button mouse.... without the ability to scroll...

not good... :mad:

[Hattig]

Well, the footprint of the keyboard is nice (very compact), but the function keys are crammed right up against the number keys - I like a gap there.

I take it the tiny return key is a US keyboard design flaw?

I really honestly think that it is time that Apple offered a two or three button mouse in addition to its one button mouse.

Also, the styling could match the G5 systems more.

[simX]

Blah, blah, blah, no multiple buttons, no scroll wheel, blah, blah, blah.

Would you guys like to complain about the lack of a PowerBook G5 in here, too? :rolleyes:

NEXT.

[punter]

one button? if they just had two buttons they would sell a million more.

I thought i might get first post there but not by a long shot.

Plus they're (probably?) going to bundle these mice with their pro machines. How unfortunate.

[Hattig]

Originally posted by simX
Blah, blah, blah, no multiple buttons, no scroll wheel, blah, blah, blah.

Would you guys like to complain about the lack of a PowerBook G5 in here, too? :rolleyes:

NEXT.

:rolleyes: back at you

The former is relevant to a thread about the new mouse! The latter isn't. So what is your point?

Apple should offer both a uni-button mouse and a mouse that will cater for the professionals as well. At least if they did then the jokes about single button mice can be resolved. Quite why Apple has consistently ignored its customers over this issue is beyond me. It is only a mouse.

[aethier]

What a dissapointment, they look just like the apple "keyboard" and "mouse" they could have at least made they keyboard aluminum, like the powerbooks.. i for one will be sticking with the logitech MX700.

aethier

[Cooknn]

Single button, and no wheel :confused: Ya know, that's the one thing about Apple that keeps my 8th grader from using the Mac in his computer lab...

[HenrikDK]

So pleased that finally Apple is also offering a cordless mouse and keyboard, BUT a one-button mouse with no scroll whell / function..... that's simply not good enough in the year 2003.

Why doesn't Apple just offer two versions of their mouse (eg: a one-button mouse like the one just introduced and a 2-button mouse with scroll wheel / function)?

...or is that not possible using Bluetooth technology; I think MS' Bluetooth mouse has these features!?

[crazedbytheheat]

Originally posted by simX
Blah, blah, blah, no multiple buttons, no scroll wheel, blah, blah, blah.

Would you guys like to complain about the lack of a PowerBook G5 in here, too? :rolleyes:

NEXT.

So, you're saying you never have to control-click for a context menu or scroll through a long page of items? I recently had to point out to another potential Apple customer that you can go buy 3rd party mice to get extra buttons and a scroll wheel. This is clearly a weakness in the Apple line! I'm totally mystified as to why Apple refuses to accomodate the overwhelming demand of its cusomers in this area.

[ZildjianKX]

Yeah, Apple blew hard on this.

What happened to my dream rechargeable aluminum mouse w/ two buttons + a clickeable scrollwheel?

As someone posted in another forum...

"Apple can stick it up their :eek: "

[tazznb]

Originally posted by punter
one button? if they just had two buttons they would sell a million more.

I thought i might get first post there but not by a long shot.

Plus they're (probably?) going to bundle these mice with their pro machines. How unfortunate.

Ummmmm... They aren't going to sell any mouse.

[tazznb]

He's never going to be man enough to won up to the fact that the one button mouse looses badly to a mouse made elsehere.

Oh, well.... guess who won't be buying this wireless mouse-keyboard combo.:mad:

[gotohamish]

What a bunch of complainers!

They've at least given you the option!!!

And the 3rd party companies are still there to serve you.

If you wouldn't use one anyway, then it's unlikely that you'd use the regular wired ones anyway - you'd go 3rd party.

SO, if that's what you do, then it's a GOOD THING if they bundle them, as you'll get MORE BACK when you eBay them!

Whinge whinge whinge.

[Hattig]

Originally posted by gotohamish
What a bunch of complainers!

They've at least given you the option!!!

No they haven't! There is no 2 or 3 button mouse! What option is that?

There are no complaints about the bluetooth aspect!

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by scottlee
OMG... still one button! :rolleyes: http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=380969

Now that's funny...

At least people still have a two-button mouse to look forward to, maybe.

Then they can complain about the lack of scroll-wheels for awhile.

[johnnowak]

It's like you people never heard of the freakin page up and page down buttons.

Works much faster, and less prone to finger cramps and pain.

As for the right click.. the key command is usually faster anyway, so who cares? For those things where you NEED to control click, or for programs that require multi-button mice... they're 50 bucks. Go buy one.

[esheep2001]

Is it just me, or do other people think that the sales of BT mice will be exactly zero?

Anyone think Apple may get the message then?

Anyone here actually going to buy one? I may get a KB but the mouse?!

Mark my words, the mice will start to become standard on BT enabled systems soon.

e.

[ssamani]

Originally posted by Hattig
No they haven't! There is no 2 or 3 button mouse! What option is that?

There are no complaints about the bluetooth aspect!

Go to a third party. If Apple makes a software product that pushes out a competitor, everyone complains about them abusing their position. If they don't compete with peripheral makers and abuse their position there, what happens? Everyone complains. Just go out and buy some other company's mouse.

Sanj

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by johnnowak
It's like you people never heard of the freakin page up and page down buttons.

Works much faster, and less prone to finger cramps and pain.

As for the right click.. the key command is usually faster anyway, so who cares? For those things where you NEED to control click, or for programs that require multi-button mice... they're 50 bucks. Go buy one.

I did, but I was pi**ed that I didn't have a choice NOT to buy a single button mouse with my iMac. By all means force me to go and buy a peripheral I want, but don't force me to buy one I don't!

e.

[iomar]

This is one mouse and key board that I will never spend money on. I am dispointed.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by Hattig
No they haven't! There is no 2 or 3 button mouse! What option is that?

There are no complaints about the bluetooth aspect!

I disagree. The option is with 3rd parties.

If Apple offered Apple-branded versions of everything the 3rd party vendors offered, then they'd all close down and not support the Mac platform - which is the opposite of what we need.

I would LOVE an Apple branded 2-button/scroll mouse, but as an *option* - but I understand their options for not doing so.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by ssamani
Go to a third party. If Apple makes a software product that pushes out the competitor, everyone complains about them abusing their position. If they don't compete with peripheral makers and abuse their position there, what happens? Everyone complains. Just go out and buys some other company's mouse.

Sanj

Fine. I did. Now, are you going to refund the 50 bucks I was forced to spend buying the single button mouse I didn't want?

e.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Fine. I did. Now, are you going to refund the 50 bucks I was forced to spend buying the single button mouse I didn't want?

e.

Who the hell forced you?

[sacrilicious]

Originally posted by gotohamish
What a bunch of complainers!

They've at least given you the option!!!

And the 3rd party companies are still there to serve you.

If you wouldn't use one anyway, then it's unlikely that you'd use the regular wired ones anyway - you'd go 3rd party.

They'd almost certainly sell more computers if they had more buttons standard. That's the bottom line.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Who the hell forced you?

Err, Apple.

e.

[j33pd0g]

Originally posted by ssamani
Go to a third party. If Apple makes a software product that pushes out a competitor, everyone complains about them abusing their position. If they don't compete with peripheral makers and abuse their position there, what happens? Everyone complains. Just go out and buy some other company's mouse.

Sanj

True. I won't buy this BT stuff though. At least they could have made it match the new G5 look. Aluminum KB and mouse would be cool. Specially if that big giant button was all cheese grate style.

[DamnDJ]

It is truly disappointing that Apple couldn't have at least given us two mouse buttons. A scroll wheel would have been nice for sure, but I am not caught up on that. There's ZERO excuse not to have a second button, no matter which way you want to try and spin it.

Apple went through all this trouble to provide us a wireless keyboard and mouse but couldn't have added a second button.

For shame.

[Freg3000]

It is funny that 3 weeks ago, I was going to wait to see what Apple release before I go the MX700. It is laughable. I would have just spent 3 weeks doing nothing. :(

Stubborn, Stupid Apple.

[gotohamish]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Err, Apple.

e.

Sell it then - you get almost all your money back selling them on eBay.

I bought 11 iMacs last year, and sold all the keyboards and mice and all sold within $5 of the Apple asking price.

[snahabed]

I am glad to see people calling Apple on this. Their wired and now wireless peripherals completely suck.

I detest these keyboards, and I am sorry, but the Apple Mouse is useless. Only an insane, die-hard Mac zealot could justify it by "yeah, well control click is just as easy!" ??? Um, no it isnt?

2 minutes with a Kensington Studio Mouse and tell me the Apple relic is still superior. You wont. You couldnt.

I am not begrudging people the strange desire for these peripherals, but it sucks that Apple does not offer some variety BTO. The price for them is built into the systems, and you cannot remove them BTO. That is BS. At the very least, let me remove a keyboard and mouse altogether from an order.

[ewinemiller]

I didn't really care about an Apple 2 button scroller for my desktop, I was hoping to see a two button scroll mouse because that might mean the possiblity of seeing two buttons on the laptops some day (where I can't just plugin in a 3rd party mouse at will). Oh well, good thing the mild speed bump on the PowerBook was also disappointing.

[Lancetx]

All I can say is that maybe Steve will finally get it thru his head that they are behind the times on this mouse issue when these things rot on the shelves. I sure don't think many people will rush to pay $69 for a wireless one button mouse.

The new PowerBooks are really nice though, anyone that thought they would have G5s this soon was pretty delusional anyway.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Sell it then - you get almost all your money back selling them on eBay.

I bought 11 iMacs last year, and sold all the keyboards and mice and all sold within $5 of the Apple asking price.

The purchasers didn't have apple.com email addresses did they? ;-)

I find it difficult to believe that people would willingly buy these things for any reason except nostalia and completeness.

Actually, our college kept getting them stolen from our video labs and I was more than suprised at that. As for BT in an academic environment... Haahahahhahahahhahhahhahhah!
ROFL!

e.

[ImAlwaysRight]

In case it hasn't been said yet, ONLY one button and still no scroll wheel! :rolleyes:

[Dont Hurt Me]

I think is a good looking board & mouse,though a scroll wheel would have been nice.

[Stella]

Far too expensive.

CA$99 for a one button mouse? Nope.

Bundle the toy mouse with the BT keyboard for CA$99 or there abouts, and its a good deal.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by ImAlwaysRight
In case it hasn't been said yet, ONLY one button and still no scroll wheel! :rolleyes:

Did you say ONE button?

Hmm, there's a suprise.

I think you should at least glance at some of the previous posts before blurting.

;-)

e.

[mrwalker]

Originally posted by snahabed
...but the Apple Mouse is useless. Only an insane, die-hard Mac zealot could justify it...

Thank you for insulting 99% of Mac users.

Thank you also for clearifying that what I have been happily using on my Macs for 15 years are useless.

What enlightenment...

(I also have plenty of PCs with 2-button mice. I HATE THEM!!!)

[JtheLemur]

"I can't use that thing as a mouse!"

"Well then, good news! It's a suppository."

=D

[DakotaGuy]

When is everyone just going to figure out that Apple still believes in the concept of the 1 button mouse. I am sure somewhere there is some document they are sitting on that studied people and ergonomics or simplicity. I use a one-button Apple mouse and like it a lot, of course I am a teacher and not a graphic designer.

[contempt]

Obviously they didn't spend much R&D dollars on this. It seems they just slotted in a bluetooth connector and just plopped the product out. However, we've been following the rumors and know they've been working on this bluetooth mouse/keyboard for almost a year. And this is what they come up with as revolutionary? How many units do you think Apple will sell?

[michael666]

All you guys are just wrong. Read the following from Apple's web site (http://www.apple.com/keyboard/) :

Buttons: 1 Full-body, adjustable tension (high, low), on/off switch

So it's actually three buttons altogether! :D

But seriously, I am very glad they did not move to multi-button/scrollwheel mice. One of the reasons I like Apple computers are the one-button mice (and trackpads). It makes them so easy to use. In the PC world, they are starting to mount whole keyboards onto the mouse (5 buttons + scrollwheel), where will this lead? And as it has been said before on this thread, you can always buy the mouse of your choice.

But if Apple themselves would offer multi-button mice, then also all the software for the Mac would start not only to take favour of them, but to require them, which is a very bad thing. So I'm perfectly satisfied with today's announcement.

I'm going to have mine (and a keyboard) tomorrow.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by contempt
How many units do you think Apple will sell?

Sell? frankly I think they're going to have a hard time giving these things away. I reckon that even if they included them in a system, people would ask to have them replaced by wired versions or removed altogether. I know I would next time.

Ho hum, at least there's no wire to get tangled up in the junk drawer :-)

e.

[Squire]

I find it surprising that so many people expected anything BUT a one-button mouse. Stubborn? Yes. Steve's ego at work? Possibly. Do I expect one in the near future? No.

When I first switched to a Mac, I found it a little hard to get used to but now I like the one-button mouse.

Story: My parents have an iMac. When my Mom went to a library to check her email while on vacation, she could not figure out the PC and "hated the stupid mouse."

At least one person likes the Apple mouse. ;) Oh, and I probably will shell out the 70 bucks for one. Control-click doesn't bother me.

Squire

[AppleMatt]

Although disappointed the new mouse isn't multi-button (very disappointed, I hate plugging the bloody MS dongle into my laptop, and no, I'm not paying over the odds for a MS BlueTooth mouse), I'm not surprised.

I'm more surprised and disappointed that it's not aluminum/aluminum style. With everything heading that way, it seems interesting that the keyboards and mice haven't.

Shame. Maybe I'll buy the keyboard, but I doubt it. Definitely not getting the mouse.

AppleMatt

[iHack]

I want one. A tailless mouse that is. Who needs two buttons on the little bugger.
A scroll wheel is nice, but I don't miss it.
I want a BT mouse to use on the road with my superb 12" powerbook. And besides being incompatible (for now?), the M$ mouse looks like a turd compared to the Apple one.

Everyone around me considers me a wintel power user. Ever since my parents' 8088 back in 1984 I've been the family PC guy and for the last 10 years my colleagues call on me because the IT Department is very slow to respond to their problems (which thanks to Mr. Gates are many).
And still, some 6 months after switching, people call me when they run into Wintel-trouble, although it is increasingly hard to navigate someone over the phone through all the different configuration windows and options by heart.
I've been finding my way around Jaguar (and the BSD system) for a while now. My friends using Macs are increasingly using me as their help-desk. Typically, their questions are trivial compared to the Wintel ones. Coming from the wintel platform, they seem just lazy to me - Wintel users are much more used to figuring out settings and finding their way around their systems - Windows forces them to.

Before switching, I thought I would certainly miss my trusty right mouse button to fiddle with settings. I don't. When I switched to the original GUI innovators I figured I would make even better use of my mouse. I don't. I use my keyboard much more. This is a good thing. Taking my hand away from the keyboard disrupts my typing/workflow. Even my RSI is getting better. Because my left hand is over the keyboard at all times, pressing the ctrl key is no trouble at all. I still have to work on a Compaq P4 for one day a week. That PC has a 2 button mouse w/ scroll-wheel. And I find myself control-clicking all the time.

In the mean time, I find myself spreading the good word among my friends. I've seen the light! No believer is more zealous than a recently converted one.

M.

(How's that for a first post...)

[Nik_Doof]

Originally posted by iHack
Taking my hand away from the keyboard disrupts my typing/workflow. Even my RSI is getting better. Because my left hand is over the keyboard at all times, pressing the ctrl key is no trouble at all.

Yah know i've never noticed i do that as well....my hand hovers over the keyboard...

As a pure Windows user atm i can't see the whole one button and ctrl+clicks getting to me, fine i use my wheel and right mouse button at home but at work i dont get the luxury of a wheel...

Guess i'll have to see how i go :)

(sorry for bein OT)

[F/reW/re]

I don't care how cordless it is, a mouse with a cord, two buttons and a scrollwheel makes me work much faster. I wonder if anyone actually will buy that mouse.

[webplummer]

I want a two-button scrolling mouse from Apple because with their strength in industrial design, it will be the best mouse ever designed.

That said, I think this is a case of software driving harware decisions. The philosophy that OS X, and previously OS9, were designed upon is that everything is where you need it, when you need it. Commands aren't hidden in places you wouldn't expect them, or wouldn't know how to access them. This is different from the Windows side, where software designers consistently hide functions in the catch-all right click menu. Ever notice how poorly ported PC apps tend to hide functionality from the user?

Apple is simply continuing to pust their software philosophy through their hardware, putting their money where their mouth is. But I still want a two button scrolling mouse from Apple.

[Steamboatwillie]

Obviously the one button mouse is overkill. If Apple really wanted to make a true user friendly mouse it would have no buttons. That way no one would ever get confused...

>barf<

I can't believe this...

[backspinner]

I know that there are third party mice that have more buttons, but the point is that Apple lost a sale here! If the mouse would have been two button and scroll wheel I would have bought one even if it was euro 100 (inclusing tax).

I'm a professional user and need the functionality (and my Logitec mouse gives me this). I'm also working on a PC an Mac both side by side so it's would be very unconvenient in switching between the two different mouses. On the other hand, my grilfriend, parents and other family members like the one button mouse...

The new mouse looks good, but Apple just isn't earning my money here. And I hate it that you have to buy a single button mouse with each new computer (maybe I should go the eBay route next time).

[synergy]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Err, Apple.

e.

Err, no one forced you to buy anything.
You don't like the bundled gear, simply don't buy the whole package.

[ffakr]

Originally posted by johnnowak
It's like you people never heard of the freakin page up and page down buttons.

Works much faster, and less prone to finger cramps and pain.

As for the right click.. the key command is usually faster anyway, so who cares? For those things where you NEED to control click, or for programs that require multi-button mice... they're 50 bucks. Go buy one.

control click and page up/page down aren't faster. They require you to remove your hands from home row on the keyboard.
Two button scrollers are superior. I've NEVER heard anyone prefer a one button mouse after they've used a two button scroller long enough to figure out how it works (that is more than 30 seconds).

What gets me is why Apple is integrating more features with two button scrollers yet they continue to ship this crap? Just about everything in OS X takes advantage of the two button scroller and Expose is just made for the feature. My finder is programmed for the 'f9' feature when I push the scroller down and it's really nice.

I'd never buy one of these. $70 bucks for an outdated wireless mouse. Un-freaking-believable.
I'm totally baffled why Apple doesn't ship a one button 'idiot' mouse with the box and AT LEAST offer a decent optional mouse.
They totally blew this one. They are just too stubborn to listen to what the people want.

ffakr.

[synergy]

Originally posted by Stelliform
He is talking about new purchases, and he has a point. My wife wanted to use her new Apple mouse, and couldn't figure out why I was putting the old PC's mouse on her new iMac. She understand after a few seconds on the Mac.

I hate surfing without a scroll wheel on any computer. It would be nice to at least have the option for a scroll wheel from Apple.

What point would that be?
Apple said buy our computer or die?
No one was forced to buy anything in this regards.
While I agree the one button mouse is not for me, I prefer a trackball.
But no one forced me or anyone else for that matter to buy a computer with a one button mouse. I bought it knewing full well I would be getting a mouse I did not want. Even in that case I got the cheesy keyboard that came with the G4s at the time. Those narrow ones.

[encro]

While I'm not concerned with the missing right button (being so used to using ctrl-click), I still feel that the people who would purchase a bluetooth mouse for their current machine would be the type of user that would appreciate a more complex mouse.

The element I am most disapointed with is the fact the D-Link DWB-120M will not work with the new Apple keyboard and Mouse. What would have changed so much in the bluetooth interface that forced making the previous bluetooth device redundant?

This was the kind of device you could expect to purchase without needing to upgrade in less than a year...

[Pablo]

I really don't understand how Apple puts out so many well thought out, innovative, market-leading products - and then continue to offer such a poor choice of mice.


I've been waiting since April for a Bluetooth mouse for my 17" AlBook.

Looks like I'll have to give Microsoft a little money.....<shudder>

[webplummer]

Funny thing is, my previous argument about software philosophy notwithstanding, Apple's target is not so much first-time computer buyers anymore.

So many people have owned or used a PC by now, that their target market is already used to having at least two buttons, and probably a wheel. And, though it can be argued that the Mac experience is different and doesn't necessitate a two-button/wheel mouse, it CAN NOT be argued that Apple's first-time Mac buyers are neophytes anymore.

[e-coli]

I bet they don't sell very many of these.

What's the point? Who cares if my keyboard and mouse has a cord. At least I don't have to keep switching them on and off and replacing the batteries.

No second button and no scroll make these things very unattractive purchases.

As others have stated, it's just bad ergonomic design.

[stevesien]

I can't believe they think someone is gonna put out good money for a one button mouse, only the most die hard Mac tradionalists want a one button mouse. I hate that I have to break up my nice new set of computing goodies to buy an uglier but much more functional mouse after just puttin out 3 grand for a state of the art computer. I have a collection of brand newe apple mice i suppose i will try to give away to poor people in an underdeveloped country. Or to Steve Jobs.

Steve not Jobs

[jamka]

The encryption is something I never thought of. That's a really nice thing to have. Imagine if someone was just interceptiong your signals and reading what you were typing as you typed it. That would be bad. No 2 button is bad, but yeah.

[drewbert]

I'd be perfectly happy with one button if Apple would implement click-and-hold contextual menus throughout OS X (instead of or in addition to control-click). It was all over the place in OS 9, why not X?

[Pablo]

Originally posted by jamka
The encryption is something I never thought of. That's a really nice thing to have. Imagine if someone was just interceptiong your signals and reading what you were typing as you typed it. That would be bad. No 2 button is bad, but yeah.

I assume you've heard what the white stuff on top of the bird crap is haven't you? :o

[scem0]

I've completely given up on apple learning that only 5% of consumers only want 1 button (that is speculation, not fact, but I bet it is darn close).

Bah, another piece of expensive hardware from apple that I would never dream of using when I can get better things for less money.

Bad job apple.

scem0

[webplummer]

Originally posted by Pablo
I assume you've heard what the white stuff on top of the bird crap is haven't you? :o


Uhhh...
"nitrogenous wastes known as urates"
http://www.hp-h.us/p/zardoz/bodily/white.htm

[rog]

Same loser mouse and keyboard. Now with added hassle and expense of batteries. Brilliant. I hope these are never standard. Can you imagine what a pain this will be for schools to deal with? Peripherals will disappear and stop working. Kids will be shut out of computers because there's no AAs around. Just stupid.

[tony c]

What a pity, what a disappointment.

A BT 2-button mouse with scroll, bundled with a wired and illuminated keyboard would have been more like it ........

[dr weebl]

Originally posted by encro
The element I am most disapointed with is the fact the D-Link DWB-120M will not work with the new Apple keyboard and Mouse. What would have changed so much in the bluetooth interface that forced making the previous bluetooth device redundant?

This was the kind of device you could expect to purchase without needing to upgrade in less than a year...

IIRC the DWB-120M only supports one bluetooth connection at a time whereas the DBT-120 supports 7 at a time. It *might* work but you would only be able to use 1 device at a time which is pretty useless.

the DBT-120 shouldn't be too expensive tho as i just got one from ingram micro and it only cost £10

i wonder if i can hook up the mouse and keyboard to my p800 ;) :D

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by rog
Same loser mouse and keyboard. Now with added hassle and expense of batteries. Brilliant. I hope these are never standard. Can you imagine what a pain this will be for schools to deal with? Peripherals will disappear and stop working. Kids will be shut out of computers because there's no AAs around. Just stupid.

Only an idiot would buy these for schools. I just hope they never get made part of the standard order, but that may be the only way the mice will see the light of day.

e.

[starflyer]

i dont think the keyboard has the USB ports so i dont think getting just the keyboard and a USB mouse will work...unless you have your mac facing backwards (the cord is too short)

[snahabed]

Originally posted by mrwalker
Thank you for insulting 99% of Mac users.

Thank you also for clearifying that what I have been happily using on my Macs for 15 years are useless.

What enlightenment...

(I also have plenty of PCs with 2-button mice. I HATE THEM!!!)

Haha, check out the rest of these posts, mate. The one-button era is OVER. Virtually every post bemoans this decades-old relic.

Virtually all computer users are used to, and want, multi-button mice. Exhibit 1: How many 1-button peripherals are there available to Windows users? Are there even any? It is considered to be a downgrade.

One might say, "but Windows uses right clicks." Mac OS has used them just as much for many years now. Not OS 6 necessarily, but we arent on OS 6 anymore. One button made sense THEN. Not now.

I argue that the vast majority of Mac users want at least a 2 button/scrollwheel mouse. I am not begrudging those who are so used to 1-button living; more power to you and them. I have no problem with Apple offering one or the other. I have no problem Apple offering buyers to eliminate the mouse and keyboard BTO to save money. Alas, these are not options.

Who in their right mind would shell out 70 bucks for a one button BT mouse? OK let's go over this for those in the nosebleeds. BT is not on low end Macs. The "simple consumers" who would want "simple 1 button mice" don't have BT for the most part. Meanwhile, BT is now standard for power users. Power users don't need a patronizing "1 button is simpler" attitude. That's why they are power users.

Apple is being completely stubborn and moronic on this issue. Either improve this stuff or at least dont REQUIRE us to buy it with a system! Pretty please, that is :)

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by esheep2001
Is it just me, or do other people think that the sales of BT mice will be exactly zero?

Anyone think Apple may get the message then?

Anyone here actually going to buy one? I may get a KB but the mouse?!

Mark my words, the mice will start to become standard on BT enabled systems soon.

e.


I'm think of getting a keyboard. the keys on my current one sticks.

I am all in favor of an all out ban on the mouse. apple users rise up against the tyranny of the one button mouse! seriously, if we ignore it, apples sales will drop, but they deserve to have mice sales flop. they did not supply our demand. i hope it fails (which im sure it will). stupid apple.

BTW- what happend to software announcements? or the bling bling paris expo ipod? or IPOD ACCESORIES? this just proves my point that in every way possible, paris is useless.

[scem0]

Originally posted by Wonder Boy
I'm think of getting a keyboard. the keys on my current one sticks.


Don't support apple by buying their crappy-ass keyboard.

Buy http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/details&CRID=658&CONTENTID=5059&countryid=19&languageid=1 that

or maybe any of http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?countryid=19&languageid=1&page=products/productlist&crid=523&ad=cdls those.

and if you must have BT then get http://www.microsoft.com/catalog/display.asp?subid=22&site=11496 this.

scem0

[tazo]

This is really cool, I can't wait to try them out in stores!

[WorldMage]

Originally posted by webplummer
Funny thing is, my previous argument about software philosophy notwithstanding, Apple's target is not so much first-time computer buyers anymore.

So many people have owned or used a PC by now, that their target market is already used to having at least two buttons, and probably a wheel. And, though it can be argued that the Mac experience is different and doesn't necessitate a two-button/wheel mouse, it CAN NOT be argued that Apple's first-time Mac buyers are neophytes anymore.

Rightly or wrongly I believe the logic is that as soon as they release a two button mouse Ported software will begin to require a two button mouse. The other issue is the 'which button is it' effect. I am far from a novice and I have a slight preference for a two button mouse but in a number of places in Windows there is total disagreement in which button should be used for an action (the most obvious place is the task bar icons where it is split 50/50 on which button brings up the 'options' dialog). Every time I go down to use one of the shortcut icons I have this - which button do I use for _this_ icon - debate with myself and I always get it wrong and click and hold for 2 secs while nothing happens, release, click the other button - oops the menu popped up and I just selected - 'erase hard drive' :)

I am actually pretty convinced that the popup menu slows everyone down because no-one bothers to learn command keys anymore - they take their hands off the keyboard - find the mouse - reposition the mouse over the text and then right click rather than one quick command key.

[erik1975]

Maybe it's just me, but I'm surprised to see that the keyboard is a wireless version of the 'Apple Keyboard', and not a wireless version of the 'Apple Pro Keyboard'!

[soosy]

I used two button mice before but for the last 6 months I've had a 2 button ms mouse sitting unused while I use my Apple mouse instead.

Why? Partly because the Apple mouse looks great but mostly because I don't really NEED two buttons. I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything.

That is perhaps the good thing about Apple sticking with the 1 button mouse -- software is designed to work well with 1 button.

That being said, Apple could still ship 1 button as default, but also sell a 2 button as an option. I think I would greatly enjoy an Apple design 2 button mouse. And by keeping 1 button as default they hopefully wouldn't sabotage the niceness of the software. :)

[scem0]

Originally posted by WorldMage

About the rickt click left click factor in the taskbar:
90% use right click, and the 10% that don't will change sooner than later. Even so, this is the tiniest disadvantage when compared to the advantages of a 2 button mouse.

Anyone stupid enough to delete a HD on accident deserves it.

I am actually pretty convinced that the popup menu slows everyone down because no-one bothers to learn command keys anymore - they take their hands off the keyboard - find the mouse - reposition the mouse over the text and then right click rather than one quick command key.

I can KIND OF see this. But not everything has key commands, and a professional user would know them on top of using a 2 button mouse.


Overall - a 2 button mouse is much better to pretty much anyone.

scem0

[soosy]

2 problems with the keyboard:

1) No black or silver color? We need a keyboard that does justice to the pretty G5!

2) The wireless looks like the same body as the keyboard that ships with the G5 (which originally debuted on the eMac, I believe). I recently got a chance to see it with a G5 in CompUSA and I really disliked it. You cannot lie it flat which is awful! The plastic rim goes high up around the edge and just looks bad, I don't know if it is supposed to be easier to clean because of that or what. I've been fine with all the past Apple keyboards but this one just looks bad, IMHO. :(

[encro]

Originally posted by soosy
That is perhaps the good thing about Apple sticking with the 1 button mouse -- software is designed to work well with 1 button.


The irony is that now Apple are the owners of Shake and that app definately needs a three button mouse to be functional.

Selling the wireless keyboard and mouse as a replacement is rather silly as those who would go to the trouble of acquiring a bluetooth mouse are the ones who would benefit from 2 or more extra buttons.

Also, sadly the USB DWB-120M bluetooth device doesn't work with the new keyboard or mouse with no explanation from Apple why this had to be... forcing a seemingly unecessary upgrade to the DWL-120.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by WorldMage
Rightly or wrongly I believe the logic is that as soon as they release a two button mouse Ported software will begin to require a two button mouse. So offer both. Heck, I would love to see the consumer line (eMac/iMac/iBook) standardize on one-button mice, and the pro like (powerMac/powerBook) standardize on two (or more) buttons. That would keep a large base on one-button, for those who prefer it and for neophytes who should be getting the lower-end systems anyway.

And it would give me a second button on the fscking laptop! Why people expect pro users to carry around a friggin mouse to plug into their otherwise self-contained laptop, especially with apple pushing the XWindows integration and all... aargh.

As for software requiring multiple buttons for maximum utility -- you did see Jobs' keynote speech about how nicely Expose worked with multi-button mice, right? When's the last time you saw other computer manufacturers using 3rd party versions of products that they make in a keynote speech?

-Richard

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by soosy
1) No black or silver color? We need a keyboard that does justice to the pretty G5! This is the one thing that has me hoping that they'll put out some "pro" peripherals to match the pro line of systems at some point.

The lack of two buttons on the new powerbook has me reluctantly admitting that they probably won't.

-Richard

[Juventuz]

It's already been said, but I'm sorely disappointed in what Apple's offering. I had some money set aside for some peripherals and was looking forward in getting a bluetooth mouse. Only now it won't be an Apple mouse. I really believe Apple dropped the ball on this one.

[Fredo Viola]

Apple is so off kilter over the last two years. They keep dropping the ball. Worse, they've got terrible tech support. Terrible competition. Terrible processors (so far the only hope is the dual2 and future updates, but the two lower ends SUCK and are over-priced.) Their designs are suffereing - the G5 is pretty ugly. They've become a company of ipods and some phenomenal software. That's the ONLY reason why I stick with Apple. For Logic. And osX, I have forgotten to give props: osX is brilliant too. It's just too much patchiness from Apple in every other way, though. Long waits for hardware. Please! When are they going to iron it all out?!

[GrannySmith_G5]

I was hoping for the same shape, but with an aluminum looking touch sensor scroll strip in the center. the left side of the mouse would have been the left button and the right side the right button

[MorganX]

I would give anything to be a fly on the wall and hear some of the brainstorm sessions that result in Apple remaining with a one-button mouse.... still.

[ultrafiel]

Hey on the positive side, it could be worse, we could have a resurrection of a hockey-puck BT mouse (I sure hate those things). Like the majority here I am disappointed there isn't 2 buttons, but even if there were I wouldn't buy an Apple mouse again, as they are too pricey. I just bought a Logitech MX 500, and it is very nice ($26 after rebate). I won't go back to one button. The keyboard I might consider, but I doubt it now has USB in the back, so I can't plug in my digital camera, and since I don't have a G5 I don't have a USB plug in front. I say put an option in the Apple Store to not get an apple mouse and save money, or be able to choose a third-party mouse instead. And yes, I did the control-click for years, and I got sick of it. Especially for games you need two buttons now.

[Fredo Viola]

I'm not going to switch, only because I've invested too much money already (which makes me very angry at Apple and myself for being so stupid) and because all my music is created in Logic, but I wish I'd started on a PC.

[crazedbytheheat]

Originally posted by michael666
All you guys are just wrong. Read the following from Apple's web site (http://www.apple.com/keyboard/) :



So it's actually three buttons altogether! :D

But seriously, I am very glad they did not move to multi-button/scrollwheel mice. One of the reasons I like Apple computers are the one-button mice (and trackpads). It makes them so easy to use. In the PC world, they are starting to mount whole keyboards onto the mouse (5 buttons + scrollwheel), where will this lead? And as it has been said before on this thread, you can always buy the mouse of your choice.

But if Apple themselves would offer multi-button mice, then also all the software for the Mac would start not only to take favour of them, but to require them, which is a very bad thing. So I'm perfectly satisfied with today's announcement.

I'm going to have mine (and a keyboard) tomorrow.

Which apps are you using? Almost all of the ones I use have useful context menus (i.e. control-click). And there's no way I'll ever buy an argument that holding down a keyboard key and clicking (two hands and two devices) is as easy as a single click on one device. I can do most of my browsing and online effort with just the mouse - as long as it has two buttons.

[esheep2001]

Originally posted by MorganX
I would give anything to be a fly on the wall and hear some of the brainstorm sessions that result in Apple remaining with a one-button mouse.... still.

Heh, heh! That one's easy:

Designers, marketers, engineers and Steve Jobs all sat round a table, 8am, ready to start the design review meeting.

Head of design stands up and announces,
"Thank you, ladies and gentlemen for being able to come to the latest in a long line of Apple mouse re-design meetings, Steve has said he'd like to open the proceedings so I'll hand over to him".

Steve stands up as the other chap goes to sit down and says,
"Thank you ladies and gentlement, that will be all", and promptly walks out the room before the head of design's backside made contact with the seat.

:)

e.

[DakotaGuy]

If you order a new Mac from the Apple store can you specify for a regular keyboard and mouse or wireless now?

[gothamac]

I've been using a wireless Logitech 2 button mouse w/ scroll ever since my Apple mouse died. I've never even used the second button but I can't imagine living without the scroll wheel. Apple really blew it on this one. My Logitech cost far less than $69, and If you notice, you can't even upgrade to the wireless If you're purchasing a system. Do they really expect people to buy a new IMAC, only to fork out $140 more for the wireless, and put the new wired pieces in your closet, or sell it on ebay? I'm starting to think Apple is taking its customer base for granted.

[Cochrane]

Originally posted by gotohamish
...

And the 3rd party companies are still there to serve you.

...

Could you maybe name one, that offers Bluetooth Mice with 2 Buttons and Scrollwhell (or more) without an included BT-Adapter, since I bought a single one yesterday?

[iEric]

ewww why can't it be the black keys?? looks like i'm sticking with the wired...

[spinko]

i'm so dissapointed that Apple has once again snubbed a basic two button mouse with a scroll wheel ! Apple is shooting itself in the foot with this. I was waiting - but now I'm going out to get a Logitech instead..

:mad:

spinko

[mac15]

I wish these came bundled with macs and were say $10 cheaper

[lelereb]

Can I recharge the battery?

[Lord Bodak]

This is really too bad... they answered my main complaint with Microsoft's bluetooth mouse (the on/off switch), but the lack of second buttond and a scroll wheel is disappointing.

[buffalo5]

Here at work, on a weekly basis, I show someone what the right button on there PC's mouse is for. And you can forget about the scroll. I think the truth is alot of average computer users (including myself) use only one button on there mouse.

[merges]

Originally posted by sacrilicious
They'd almost certainly sell more computers if they had more buttons standard. That's the bottom line.

So... you think that hardware sales are directly linked to the number of buttons on the included mouse?

[Phazer80s]

Apple's too damn proud.

It's 2003 and its decision-makers lack the insight to see most people prefer using multi-button mice. 'Switchers' especially!

OS X is the present and forseeable future. It's undeniable. It's built with context-sensitive functionality; it's aware of multi-buttton mice and how to use them without extra configuration. That's fantastic! So why does it insist on only providing its users with one-button mice? Multi-button mouse users have to reach for a 2nd peripheral (their keyboards) EVEN LESS by utilizing 2nd or 3rd buttons. It's not difficult or confusing! It's also more efficient to scroll with a finger vs. moving the entire hand. It's been said a billion times, yet they clearly still disagree. I can't see the justification in limiting the option.

You'd think at their price level Apple would ship feature-rich mice with their systems. Having to buy a 3rd-party mouse to replace the insufficient one that came with the system (and the alternate one offered by the manufacturer) is right there wih the cheap Wintel systems Apple abhors. Nice. Moves like this encourage users to spend even more money, but away from Apple.

[Cochrane]

I am surprised how many people think that using a 1-button Mouse is easier than 2 buttons. The difference between the two buttons can be told by anyone who has learned to distinguish left and right. And I do not think that using ctrl+click is any easy. It is, after all, the Control-Key you're pressing and not some kind of context-menu key. I think it is just as easy using 1 button with ctrl as it is using 2 buttons.

What I think is more sensible is using a 2-button mouse because you only need one hand to do so. I certainly won't buy this new mouse.

[the_mole1314]

I'm dissapointed with the wirless mouse and keyboard. Their nice and needed, but you think apple could have had them rechargeable and cost less than $70 per!

[mdntcallr]

Dammit, Apple continues to just not get it.

The keyboard seems nice, and just a bluetooth version of what they currently make, no problem from me.

But they just don't listen to their clients.... WE WANT A 2 Button and Scroll Mouse.

ok so you want to continue selling one with just one, fine sell both versions, see what sells more. you owe it to us after the hell you put us through with Motorola and no real new faster powerbooks for about a year.

Hell i am interested in buying one, and getting a mouse ext. but cmon, help your buyers out.

GOTO 2 buttons on your laptop clickers as long as we mention it.

The windows world isnt so bad with that, infact it's great. Why wont you adapt innovation from the other side? damn

[Photorun]

Apple's gotta pull it's head out. Especially it's nuts, I use contextual menus in Final Cut Pro all the time... a high end program MADE BY APPLE! Yet they don't offer a mouse to support their own program?!? Let alone their OS?!? What planet is Apple on anyways?!

Let alone try using Dreamweaver without a two button mouse or even Photoshop and Illustrator. Yeah yeah you can use ctrl but speed and efficiency.. I mean... why NOT do that if you don't have to? And the entire production department at one of my clients, a sea of G4s (50+) all have 1.25 or 1.42 G4 DPs, they have to go out and buy all new mice. I was shown this back room where they just toss the Apple mice into a box of tangled wires and clear plastic. The head IT guy mumbled "worthless."

Jobs, get over it, MAKE A TWO BUTTON MOUSE!!!

PS Gee, do you think Pixar users are using one button mice. NO!!!

[agreenster]

Well, I guess Apple just doesnt want the mouse to sell. :confused:

[Laslo Panaflex]

I agree with 99% of the posts that the one button mouse is a bad move. I don't think that it is worthless, because it is wireless, which is really nice for those who have not used one. I was contemplating buying the an apple wireless mouse if it had 3 buttons, but since this one doesn't, well I am not going to buy it. I need to get a 3 button mouse to go with my dual G5, apple could have made another 70 bucks off of me, but now, I'll send 25 bucks and buy a logitech wired.

[mkaake]

well, it's nice to know that some people *never* change.

I've seen several discussions come to bear on this site about mice, and every single time, it turns into a multi-page debate about 1 vs 2 vs 10 buttons + a scroll wheel.

it's really kind of sad. especially when people get so mad at each other over all of it.

that said, i use a 1 button mouse, would love a two button mouse, and hope that apple never makes a 2 button the standard, but perhaps a bto.

as it's been said, *most* users (i think people on this forum tend to be a little bit elitist in their thinking of the *average* computer user) *do* get confused using windows with 2 buttons. well, maybe i should say 80% of the people over 20, 20% of the people under 20. seriously.

but everyone assumes that everyone else is just like them, so 2 buttons can't possibly be confusing. i mean, why would it be confusing?? two buttons, two functions.

blah blah blah.


bto... that's all i have to say.

other than please stop the whole *down with apple!! they screwed me with a one button mouse!* posts. if it's that much trouble, as i've said before, i'd be willing to take any apple optical mouse off of someone's hands, and i'd even be willing to do it for free...

matt

[Wonder Boy]

i think its hilarous that app-hole is renowned for their inovative styles and innovations, and STILL cant get something as simple as a mouse design right!

whats makes it that much more frustrating is that app-hole has to inovate NOTHING! we would be happy if they ripped of someone elses 2+, scroll wheel design. suspply the demand, or watch the dollars go elsewhere

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by agreenster
Well, I guess Apple just doesnt want the mouse to sell. :confused:


hahaha if apple wanted to see how poorly a product of theirs can do, then let the games begin.

[zoozx]

What a joke.
Wake up stevie boy, a 1 button mouse has been dead for 10 years.
Somebody needs to tell this guy to wake up.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by simX
Blah, blah, blah, no multiple buttons, no scroll wheel, blah, blah, blah.

Would you guys like to complain about the lack of a PowerBook G5 in here, too? :rolleyes:

NEXT.

A PowerBook G5 is beyond their control. Adding a scroll wheel and a second button is not. It just takes someone, Jobs?, to stop being an *** about it.

[windwaves]

FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY !

As soon as BT was announced I was ready for BT accessories, including m/k. I hate wire, hell to wires !!!!!! Got to believe I have to wait 2 Apple weeks (undefined) for their availability.

Kind of funny, that to me is the most exciting thing of the expo !


ciaooooooo

[Uragon]

Originally posted by buffalo5
Here at work, on a weekly basis, I show someone what the right button on there PC's mouse is for. And you can forget about the scroll. I think the truth is alot of average computer users (including myself) use only one button on there mouse.

I agree. I had trackball explorer and ended switching back with the original one mouse button.

[Wonder Boy]

Originally posted by Uragon
I agree. I had trackball explorer and ended switching back with the original one mouse button.


I love the trackball. I find it more comfortable than the pad.

[Kermit]

Today we have the options of buying either a wired or wireless version of the Apple Mouse & Keyboard. Both are white and match the iBook/iMacs perfectly.

I predict that fairly soon we will see the return of the Apple Pro Mouse & Keyboard-line, both wireless, that match the silver/metallic looks of the new Power Mac and the Powerbooks. Also soon we will se the demise of the wired Apple Mouse & Keyboard making them all Bluetooth wireless.

[daijones]

The basic problem is that the new peripherals offer no compelling reason to buy. Wireless is nice, but not particualrly necessary, surely, unless you plan waving your input devices around the room. Otherwise, they're just the same as the included peripherals. $140 for the pair, plus say $40 to include bluetooth on your desktop? Let's face it, wires aren't that much of a pain for something that just sits on the desk surface. I was hoping Apple would make use of their patent for a mouse with a horizontal (iPod like) jog dial - that might give a reason to buy.

[imamacguy17]

Originally posted by Hattig


Apple should offer both a uni-button mouse and a mouse that will cater for the professionals as well. Quite why Apple has consistently ignored its customers over this issue is beyond me. It is only a mouse.

It is only a mouse get over it if you dont like the free mouse buy a different one this is suitible for most people. i have both mice and prefer the single button because of all the extra crap gets in the way. for the pro users they're going to go buy an expensive supermouse anyhow. if you dont like the "free" (with purchase) offering from Apple do what you should do support the compitition and buy a better one. The multi button scroll wheel mice that come will dells, gateways, etc are crap and are mostly replaced anyhow. just get over the freaking mouse its only a mouse and if its not the best mouse out there for you get something else. But the real question of the day is why can't you buy the new mouse/keyboard when you purchase a new machine? if i wanted to sidegrade to the new board/mouse for the extra 15 bucks or whatever i should be able to instead of being sent two.

[Daschund]

I had to post on this one (this is my first post on the forum)...

Flame me if you want, but I have to take stand on the soap box and say this...

I'm a photographer and a graphic designer. I've been an art director for ad agencies for more than 10 years. I have a Kensington mouse that I use on my PowerBook (only because the Apple mouse is a little too expensive, if any of you that don't use yours, please send one to me!) that has two buttons and the scrolling wheel and I use only one button. ALL my mac friends that also work on ad agencies, graphic design companies or are photographers use the Apple mouse. Today I asked 18 of them about the possibility of having a two buttoned mouse only to hear the answer "Why would I want that? I wouldn't use the other button anyway..."

So I guess that it's not as you all are bashing here. Not everybody (not even the majority, for that fact) wants a two button/scrolling wheel mouse. Might be the majority of the people that reads macrumors everyday, but from all the people that I know that work all day long in programs like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Quark and OSX, nobody cares about that. They were all really excited about the wireless mouse also.

Again, flame me as much as you want, but just because you really think that everybody wants a two button mouse, it won't make that become a reality. It might make you be considered crazy or fascist thou! LOL LOL LOL

(coming down from the soap box...)

[.a]

you're right, daschund!
i run a company for gfx- and vfx-design and i do not see how a two button mouse will make our projects more creative.

maybe there are some advantages when you use to do two-button-mouses, but for 8 years of mac-using i have never thought about buying a scroll-wheel-two-or-three-button-mouse.

but then, a little bit more innovation from apple could be cool: perhaps there is more than two, three buttons or scroll wheels - it's time that apple should think different again!

.a

[trose]

I don't really understand the problem with a high-quality simple mouse as standard config on Apple machines.

When you buy a new PC you get some crap generic mouse that may have a 2 buttons a scroll wheel, but that is lightweight and will break within a few months.

Anyone who is at all serious about computers should NOT be sticking to the OEM Mice/Keyboards, whether it be PC or Mac.

I have quite happily been enjoying my Wireless, 7 Buttons and wheel, rechargeable on its own dock Logitech MX700. Show me a Dell that comes with a comparable mouse as standard equipment then I might be a little displeased with Apple.

[cwkoller5]

Originally posted by snahabed One might say, "but Windows uses right clicks." Mac OS has used them just as much for many years now. Not OS 6 necessarily, but we arent on OS 6 anymore. One button made sense THEN. Not now.

Apple is being completely stubborn and moronic on this issue. Either improve this stuff or at least dont REQUIRE us to buy it with a system! Pretty please, that is :) [/B]

Amen. Apple blew it here. If they offered a *choice* of this and a two-button scrolling mouse, then ok, but this is the last vestige of NIH syndrome, and it's gotta go. And all the sleek lucite in the world isn't going to change this.

C'mon, Apple. Do what you do best - take the current mouse offering and *improve* on it. Maybe put a track pad where the wheel should be. Eliminate all moving parts. Do something worthy of accompanying a G5.

As it stands, you know the "pros" are gonna dump your mouse and replace it with either a Logitech or a Microsoft model. Do you really believe an MS logo in the hands of your top-level Mac users is a smart strategy?

Seriously. Get a clue and dump the NIH mentality...

[MM2270]

Originally posted by synergy
Err, no one forced you to buy anything.
You don't like the bundled gear, simply don't buy the whole package.

Uhh, RIIIIGHT! That makes total sense, why didn't I think of that!? :rolleyes: I don't like the keyboard/mouse that Apple INCLUDES with all their desktops, so I guess I just WON"T BUY A MAC!

That is the single stupidist remark I've heard in years. If everyone used this flwed logic, Apple would lose HUGE sales. What an idiot!

:rolleyes:

[cwkoller5]

Originally posted by Daschund
Again, flame me as much as you want, but just because you really think that everybody wants a two button mouse, it won't make that become a reality. It might make you be considered crazy or fascist thou! LOL LOL LOL

(coming down from the soap box...)

I just hate having to toss my Mac mouse (wasteful) and then buy another - which costs the same, if not less than the Mac mouse does. OSX is made for the right mouse button. It just is. If your graphics friends are still in OS9 land, then I can understand.

But I'm a multimedia/graphics Mac user and I've used Logitech mice for over a decade now. Context menus on the right. I program the left (3rd button) to hide others, which is very nice when you want to clear your screen after going back and forth to other apps. And the scroll is a godsend.

If you or your friends tried a 2 or 3-button scroll mouse, I think you and they would never happily turn back to the lucite chunk.

Remember, as much as I love Apple, this is - after all - the same company that gave us the round iMac puck, one of the worst mice in the history of mousedom. Style over substance is in full force here. I'd just like Apple to acknowledge the functionality of multi-button mice and make them better.

We know they certainly can, if they'd just get their heads out of 1984...

[bertagert]

Originally posted by Daschund
ALL my mac friends that also work on ad agencies, graphic design companies or are photographers use the Apple mouse. Today I asked 18 of them about the possibility of having a two buttoned mouse only to hear the answer "Why would I want that? I wouldn't use the other button anyway..."


Daschund - I'm with you on this. Go to any computer store and watch people use the computer. I'll bet 99% of the people only use the one button. I personally like two buttons and a scroll wheel but my mother, sister, girlfriend, brother and grandfather only use one button (unless they have a scroll wheel, then they use that as well). What I'm getting at is this, most people don't use two buttons! Heck, they don't even understand why there are two buttons. I can see why Apple does their mouse this way. As for me, I use the Logitech MX700 wireless. Great mouse. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever used a computer companies standard mouse (Apple or Windows Computer). Apple should have definitely used a dock for recharging and added a scroll. Those two are biggies in my book.

Now onto the wireless keyboard. I have a Logitech wireless KB and the first thing I thought when I saw Apple's wireless was, "how in the world do you pick it up without grab a few keys by accident?" I grab mine all the time and put it on my lap. Or even move it around the desk sometimes to make room for a book or something. The new Apple KB has no place to grab on the side. I guess not a big deal but I could see it as a pain.

As for bluetooth part, I wish my mouse and keyboard where Bluetooth (mine are Radio). Not having two little usb things plugged in the back of the system and running underneath the desk would be nice.

Apple - put a scroll wheel on the damn mouse and add a little something on the keyboard so people can grab it!

[Stella]

I want to buy an Apple mouse, I really do. But there is no way I am going to buy a ONE button mouse.

I love and use Logitech mice - I have several generations of Logitech mice including MX500 and 700.

Logitech have no serious competition IMO - MS mice ? No, they suck - MS rely on bundling.

Apple could give logitech competition by releasing a stylish mouse. But time and time again they insist one ONE mouse button...

One Button mice are a joke and not to be taken seriously amongst the general population.

[oddjobboy]

Battery life 3 months???
In a company like the one I work for that runs 200+ Macs, I'd be replacing batteries every day! Why not have a rechargable mouse?

At least now the cable on the mouse won't break as it has been doing on about 20% of the newer machines here. I have never thrown away so many mice as I have in recent months!

And white is not a good colour in my mind. Apple users drink too much coffee and eat too much cake for a white keyboard to remain white for any longer than a month at most.

[Stella]

Oh and one more thing...

Signficiantly lower price!!

[bertagert]

Originally posted by MM2270
Uhh, RIIIIGHT! That makes total sense, why didn't I think of that!? :rolleyes: I don't like the keyboard/mouse that Apple INCLUDES with all their desktops, so I guess I just WON"T BUY A MAC!

MM2270 - He was talking about not buying the mouse and keyboard when you get your Mac. Not, "don't buy a Mac because the keyboard and mouse aren't what you want".

I think you misread his post.

[cwkoller5]

Originally posted by trose
When you buy a new PC you get some crap generic mouse that may have a 2 buttons a scroll wheel, but that is lightweight and will break within a few months.

When you buy a PC at Dell (I use both Mac's and PC's), you can choose one of several mice. There's nothing wasted. And even the standard mice aren't "flimsy" ... they work and last just fine.

[MM2270]

Originally posted by bertagert
MM2270 - He was talking about not buying the mouse and keyboard when you get your Mac. Not, "don't buy a Mac because the keyboard and mouse aren't what you want".

I think you misread his post.

OK then, explain to me HOW I can buy a new Mac, either from Apple or another reseller, WITHOUT getting the mouse and keyboard?
You're the one misreading here. Many previous posts have complained that Apple doesn't give you the option NOT to get the k/m bundled with a new Mac. That's the point- the price of the whole system INCLUDES at least one device that I don't want. Knock off the $60 or so from the price and don't send me the lucite chunk mouse and I might not be so mad at them. But it's classic Apple/Steve J stubborness at work, or the "use it OUR way or shut up" mentality.

Shame on Apple for not giving users at least SOME choice here.

[alset]

Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss!
Booooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Dan

[sachmo]

Years ago I sold computers back when Mac were in a lot of retail stores. The two main reason people didn't buy where the mouse and no solitaire, and maybe the fact they could not pirate all the software off their buddies. (Please don’t take the above too seriously, but I did hear those comments a lot)

Now, I could care less who comes out with a BT 2-button mouse, I just want one for my laptop. I want wireless without any wires, which includes this thing that has a 6-foot cord to make my wireless mouse and keyboard work. I love the smaller Logitech mouse just want a simple/small receiver.

[eric_n_dfw]

Don't have time read all the posts here - and am not going to bash Apple, but as soon as I bought my B&W G3, I put a Logitech USB optical 2 button wheel-mouse on it. I upgraded to a double resolution version for $12 last year (not that the single resolution version was bad - just 'cause it was $12!)

When I upgraded to my dual G4 500, I imediatly shelved the single button, Apple mouse and continue to use the Logitech one.

If I buy a PB, I'll buy the BlueTooth keyboard but will look for a compatible 2 button BT mouse from Logitech, Kensington or Microsoft as I doubt Apple will ever provide one.

Or I'll buy a 3rd party BT keyboard if it's available. I dislike the feel of my current Apple Pro Keyboard - keys are too close together. I use Dell USB (Microsoft made) on my Mac at work. I presume Apple BT keyboard is similar.

Too bad for Apple, but unless no other brand is compatible, I could care less who makes it, as long as it's built well.

FWIW, I use the 2nd button on Final Cut Pro, Eclipse (Java IDE), Safari (where I actualyl use the 3rd button a lot), Word, Excel, X11 apps and even Terminal sometimes.

[agreenster]

Originally posted by Daschund
I had to post on this one (this is my first post on the forum)...

Flame me if you want, but I have to take stand on the soap box and say this...

I'm a photographer and a graphic designer. I've been an art director for ad agencies for more than 10 years. I have a Kensington mouse that I use on my PowerBook (only because the Apple mouse is a little too expensive, if any of you that don't use yours, please send one to me!) that has two buttons and the scrolling wheel and I use only one button. ALL my mac friends that also work on ad agencies, graphic design companies or are photographers use the Apple mouse. Today I asked 18 of them about the possibility of having a two buttoned mouse only to hear the answer "Why would I want that? I wouldn't use the other button anyway..."

So I guess that it's not as you all are bashing here. Not everybody (not even the majority, for that fact) wants a two button/scrolling wheel mouse. Might be the majority of the people that reads macrumors everyday, but from all the people that I know that work all day long in programs like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Quark and OSX, nobody cares about that. They were all really excited about the wireless mouse also.

Again, flame me as much as you want, but just because you really think that everybody wants a two button mouse, it won't make that become a reality. It might make you be considered crazy or fascist thou! LOL LOL LOL

(coming down from the soap box...)

A couple real reasons for the second (or third) button and scrollwheel:

1) Ease of use. I use the right click all the time to copy, paste, delete, etc. Especially in applications like Flash, Photoshop, etc...

2) Games. 'nuff said. Absolutely essential.

3) Maya. I use Alias Maya all the time (as a 3D guy) and its absolutely essential to have a three button mouse (or 2 + scroll) for navigation purposes. It doesnt work without it.

4) The scrollwheel is very helpful on websites, menus, finder windows, etc.

5) I right click all the time in the Finder to copy, move to trash, etc. Saves extra dragging or typing.

I could go on and on, but the point it the second mouse click is not only helpful, but sometimes essential. I would much rather have an Apple mouse than my IBM mouse, but I just cant have the one button.

[granex]

Originally posted by tazznb
He's never going to be man enough to won up to the fact that the one button mouse looses badly to a mouse made elsehere.

Oh, well.... guess who won't be buying this wireless mouse-keyboard combo.:mad:

NeXT computers had two button mice from the get-go.

[coolfactor]

I couldn't handle reading all the depressing posts in this thread, but not once did I see anyone clue into the fact that these aren't labelled as "Pro" models. I expect to see a "Pro Keyboard" and "Pro Mouse" come out with multiple buttons and possible a scroll wheel, and an aluminum finish.

These are consumer models, not Pro... that's why there's only one button on the mouse.

[ChronoIMG]

Originally posted by coolfactor
I couldn't handle reading all the depressing posts in this thread, but not once did I see anyone clue into the fact that these aren't labelled as "Pro" models. I expect to see a "Pro Keyboard" and "Pro Mouse" come out with multiple buttons and possible a scroll wheel, and an aluminum finish.

These are consumer models, not Pro... that's why there's only one button on the mouse.

I hope your right, however... has Apple ever released a Pro mouse before? Not that I'm aware of. I think they're just content with the one button mouse and let the 3rd parties follow their lead with bluetooth to make a 2nd button and scroll wheel models. I'll be first in line for the Logitech bluetooth mouse.

[sockgap]

Originally posted by dr weebl
the DBT-120 shouldn't be too expensive tho as i just got one from ingram micro and it only cost £10
Garbage. That thing costs $50 from the Apple store, and the cheapest I can see them online is $31 ($37.95 with shipping).

[esheep2001]

People, people. Calm down. This isn't about whether a single button is better than two is better than three etc. It's about having the CHOICE of what you get delivered with the machine. And if you don't like any of the choices you should be able to get it without the mouse and purchase your own.

Frankly, Apple should be offering a 2+ button mouse. The fact that people want an Apple designed one is testament to the quality and style that people associate with Apple, not necessarily that Apple have got it wrong with a 1 button mouse.

The Bluetooth announcements were an opportunity for Apple to introduce an iPod in the user input world. After all, everyone wants an iPod rather than some other mp3 player. What's dissapointing is they just blew the opportunity away :(

e.

[e-coli]

Originally posted by alset
Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss! Hissssssssssssssssssssssssssss!
Booooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Dan

Tell us how you REALLY feel. ;)

[Swift]

And I also noticed, there's no start menu on my Mac! How the hell can I use this? I can't be expected to option-click, or any of the other simple ways to get a Mac to do what I want! I have to have an unwieldy, dopey Windows mouse!

[mateft]

If apple did a 2 button mouse then they would have to change the mouse pref panel. For right and left ahnded people. That is what i loved bout the original pro mouse. used by both left and right handed people.

If a 2 button mouse should show up then expect to see the pref panel to change to allow the use to specift a left or right handed person.

[fred]

Well if the fawning media types who interview Greg Joswiak or Phil Schiller on new product announcements would ask hard questions like:

1) why doesn't Apple offer a mouse with a scroll wheel and more than one button when their customers clearly want them ?

2) why doesn't Apple offer to unbundle their keyboard and mouse from systems (hence reduce the price) if they insist that customers go to 3rd party solution for their wants/needs ?

...and countless other probing and incisive questions rather than be a platform for marketing drivel...

[Falleron]

Why so many negatives? Let face it, the Mac will always have a one button mouse!

[gerardrj]

As Apple integrates more features in to the OS, people complain they are "squeezing the little guy".
When Apple DOESN'T integrate a product or feature, they're "stupid" and "unbelievable".

I'd hazard a guess that upwards of 80% of Mac users simply use the one button mouse. It's completely functional: your hand is usually near the keyboard anyway, and moving the cursor to the scroll bar gets it out of the way of what you are trying to look at.

[toontra]

As well as being disappointing in terms of spec (1-button, no rechargeable batteries), Apple continues it's outrageous two-tier pricing policy.

$69 for each of these in the US, but £59 in the UK. With exchange rates the way they have been for the past 25 years, this should be £50 TOPS.

We are effectively expected to subsidize the US price. Well, not me.

[~Shard~]

Not that it's necessary now, since my comment will no doubt be drowned and overlooked in the sea of other negative comments, but I really do agree with the masses and question what Apple was thinking with this release.

First of all, whether people use a 2-button mouse w/ scroll wheel or not, the simple fact is that 95% of all mice out there have this functionality - why wouldn't Apple at least want to be on par with everyone else? Isn't Apple supposed to be an innovative company? I'm afraid I'm in the same boat as many other users, and when I buy a new Mac I'm going to buy my own (non-Apple) mouse w/ 2 buttons and a scroll wheel.

Secondly, the cost!!! $60 for a keyboard and a mouse?! I live in Canada and this makes the cost of these devices $100 CAD! Why on Earth would I buy these devices for so much money when I can buy a 2-button mouse for $30 (or less) and a keyboard for less as well? Way too expensive in my mind....

And lastly, the batteries. I realize one of the downsides of any wireless device is the need for batteries, but 3 month battery life? And no charger unit to rest the mouse in? At least they have an on/off switch, which I do have to give them credit for, but still, even though batteries are cheap, it's the principle of the thing!

Anyway, I know it's all been said before, but I just wanted to add my fuel to the fire. Apple missed the boat on this release, but let's not let this downplay all the other updates that have come in the past few months (G5s, new PBs, new iPods, new iMacs, software updates, etc.)

Cheers,
Scott

P.S. Completely unrelated, but when is Panther coming out? ;)

[Stella]

I really can't understand why people are complaining about the 3 months battery life in these things.

3 months is pretty much standard in a mouse - Logitech Cordless Optical (Logitech's first cordless optical) - 3 months, to give one example.

Yes a charger cradle would be really nice.

Originally posted by ~Shard~

I realize one of the downsides of any wireless device is the need for batteries, but 3 month battery life?

[myrdred23]

How is this negative, this gives us more choice, I can not see how this made the situation worse than it was before.

Before, Apple offered one-button wired mice, now you have a choice between a one-button wired or a one-button !wired mouse. Sure, its not a two button mouse, but neither was the previous offering, so how is this negative. I'd understand if they made their offering WORSE, but they didn't.

On another note, I think Apple should offer third party mice as BTO option, instead of their brand name 1 button mice, like you pay maybe a few dollars extra, and instead of the apple mouse you get a kensington for example. No need to release new products, just add the feature to the apple store, and everything will be great.

[merges]

To be fair, there are good reasons for a single-button mouse (in terms of human-computer interaction). More than one button introduces a new set of "actions" that a user can perform; whether or not developers choose to implement them is their prerogative, and sometimes they go nuts with it. In fact, I think it would be wise for interfaces to gravitate away from the use of additional buttons on mice.

The issue has to do with the vocabulary of interaction. With a one-button mouse, your choices are (essentially): Click, Press, Double-Click, and Triple-Click. With a two button mouse, you've significantly increased the available interactive complexity (which many developers take advantage of to provide "conveniences" to PRO users, who buy PRO input devices to match): Left Click, Left Press, Left Double-Click, Left Triple-Click, Right Click, Right Press, Right Double-Click, Right Triple-Click, and Chord Click. It is harder for most people to learn such a large variety of interactions with the mouse; if Apple were to include such a mouse, you can bet that developers would start taking advantage of these extra "click types" for basic "convenient" functionality. Keep it simple, stupid, is a valuable saying in terms of essential ease of learning and ease of use, so one button makes sense for Apple.

I actually have two primary pointing devices: A Microsoft mouse with four buttons and a clickable scroll wheel, and a Kensington trackball with four buttons and a scroll ring. I bought them from Microsoft and Kensington, the people who are and should be making such input devices (and they cost a pretty penny, too). Apple's doing its part to ensure a *relatively* simple interactive paradigm on its platform, and other manufacturers are providing fabulous devices for power users or those who are willing to learn how to use additional features provided by multiple buttons.

To those who are complaining about the product, DON'T BUY IT! And Apple *hasn't* lost a sale from each of you; you're not the people Apple is targeting with this product. If you are all ignorant enough to think that Apple (from Steve on down to the mail-room clerk) doesn't know about multi-button mice and scroll wheels, you're using the wrong platform. Get real! This was obviously a highly deliberate design, not stubbornness: If a multi-button mouse were likely to sell MUCH BETTER than a single-button mouse that cost about the same amount to make (and could be manufactured with the same high-quality design), Apple would make it. For one reason or another, Apple believes that its formula is going to work better for the company, and I find it odd that many of you think you could do better. How many of you work for Apple, then?

I'm just going to repeat, for good measure: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT.

But if you think you know better, then show me YOUR company.

[dstorey]

Originally posted by coolfactor
I couldn't handle reading all the depressing posts in this thread, but not once did I see anyone clue into the fact that these aren't labelled as "Pro" models. I expect to see a "Pro Keyboard" and "Pro Mouse" come out with multiple buttons and possible a scroll wheel, and an aluminum finish.

These are consumer models, not Pro... that's why there's only one button on the mouse.

I hope your right...but maybe apple removed the pro label, as it was quite frankly an embarrasment to call a one button mouse pro ;) With these keys and mice staying white they suit the iMac and eMac fine (though wireless in education is just asking for pranksters to swapp keys and ketting people to type their password on the wrong machine, or things getting stolen). If i was still in the market for an iMac these would be ideal as they will look geat next to that machine with no wires, but the are just way too ex*****ive for consumer devices, and the lack of the scroll and 2nd button would probably mean i wouldnt have bought them, even though the design is much better than m$ etc.

If a real pro mouse does come out to match the powerbooks and g5 then that would be cool, but at this price how the hell much would they charge for the extra functionalty as a scroll dial, extra button and aluminium instead of plastic...they will cost a morgage.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by Falleron
Why so many negatives? Let face it, the Mac will always have a one button mouse! Then again, remember the good ol' Panther keynote where Steve was talking about how nice it was to use a multi-button mouse with Expose? How many other companies do you know of that use competitive products in their keynote speeches because theirs don't cut it? And point it out to all those watching?

Pretty darn few, I'm thinking.

-Richard

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by gerardrj


your hand is usually near the keyboard anyway, and moving the cursor to the scroll bar gets it out of the way of what you are trying to look at.


I don' know about that. My hand is on a bottle of Sobe Green Tea. Long live the 2 button mouse! Excuse me while I scroll wheel to the next post :p

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by Hattig
:rolleyes: back at you

The former is relevant to a thread about the new mouse! The latter isn't. So what is your point?

Apple should offer both a uni-button mouse and a mouse that will cater for the professionals as well. At least if they did then the jokes about single button mice can be resolved. Quite why Apple has consistently ignored its customers over this issue is beyond me. It is only a mouse.

you'll get multiple button mice with intel chips and windows running on a mac... it's a heritage thing... the software is sooooo good and sooo well designed you only need one button.... my best guess as to why

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Yeah, Apple blew hard on this.

What happened to my dream rechargeable aluminum mouse w/ two buttons + a clickeable scrollwheel?

As someone posted in another forum...

"Apple can stick it up their :eek: "

Have you seen a G5 in person?

I too doubted but am board now after seeing in person...

I like the mouse and keyboard battery life seems good even if you don't get all they say you will it's still pretty good...

[Jookbox]

thank god for my logitech mx500. i doubt i'll ever buy an apple mouse again.

[rickvanr]

Originally posted by crazedbytheheat
So, you're saying you never have to control-click for a context menu or scroll through a long page of items? I recently had to point out to another potential Apple customer that you can go buy 3rd party mice to get extra buttons and a scroll wheel. This is clearly a weakness in the Apple line! I'm totally mystified as to why Apple refuses to accomodate the overwhelming demand of its cusomers in this area.

i believe it is because apple has always used ease of use as a selling point. as with the one button mouse, more buttons, more confusion.

[trilogic]

When I get my dual G5 with or without the new Bluetooth Mouse I'll buy a Logitech mouse ... again.

[trilogic]

Originally posted by rickvanr
i believe it is because apple has always used ease of use as a selling point. as with the one button mouse, more buttons, more confusion.

might be, but you read "click right mouse button" all over the internet. But if a winuser tests a mac where should he know that right click = ctrl click on the mac?

[JtheLemur]

didn't wade through 7 pages of discussion here yet, but if you wanted to buy just the wireless keyboard and plug a USB mouse into it, you may be outta luck:

http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmac_sept2003_480.html

doesn't look like there are any USB ports on the keyboard. bummer.

[HybridTheory]

At first, I was very disappointed that Apple released bluetooth mice with only ONE button like many of you were (many amusing posts). But, upon looking at the title of the product, I noticed that there was no "Pro" in the title. In addition, these new mice are not styled after the new Pro G5 line. These facts lead me to believe that there will be a Pro line coming out soon that will be G5-styled and hopefully have 2 buttons and a scroll wheel (rechargable dock would be nice for the mouse.... i.e. Logitech MX 700 (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm?page=products/details&CRID=3&CONTENTID=4999&countryid=19&languageid=1) ). A few others have brought up this "Pro" point, but I believe it hasn't been said enough. Calm down folks, there's still hope!

On some of the other details:

They had better not bundle this mouse/keyboard combo with the G5! It would be nice if Apple gave you the CHOICE of mice at checkout. I see four options that are the most sensible - wired for public/school computers, wireless (the ones announced today) combo for the general consumer, G5-Style Pro wireless combo for power users/professionals, and no mouse/keyboard at all (if you want to buy a 3rd party mous/kbd or already have a mouse/kbd).

I agree with the previous comments that the past one button "Pro" mice have been a total joke - one button just doesn't cut it for pro-level work. let's hope that Apple listens to it's professional users this time around.

[brooklyn]

BELKIN (http://web.belkin.com/presspage/Releases/08_12_03opticalMouse.html) has a new BlueTooth mouse coming out October 1st that works with the Mac OS X, sports 4 buttons and scroll wheel and has a low battery indicator. Check out a pix here! (http://www.macminute.com/2003/08/12/belkin)

[uberman42]

After the unveiling, Logitech, Kensington, Macally, and MS breathed a sigh of relief. I am starting to think that Apple is intentionally designing the peripherals this way because they do not want to infringe on an important 3rd party.

[Brent Turbo]

Umm, if you want a 2 button mouse, then buy one. NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO BUY THESE! If Apple Computer has the ability to hurt your feelings through a product release, then respectfully, get a life.

[e-coli]

Originally posted by JtheLemur
didn't wade through 7 pages of discussion here yet, but if you wanted to buy just the wireless keyboard and plug a USB mouse into it, you may be outta luck:

http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmac_sept2003_480.html

doesn't look like there are any USB ports on the keyboard. bummer.

That's because there's no such thing as wireless USB.

Overwhelming negative rating on this thread. Looks like Apple went down swinging on this one.

[iHack]

Originally posted by uberman42
After the unveiling, Logitech, Kensington, Macally, and MS breathed a sigh of relief. I am starting to think that Apple is intentionally designing the peripherals this way because they do not want to infringe on an important 3rd party.

hear hear. I believe apple mice are made by logitech and have been for quite some time. Apple and Logitech seem happy together. Logitech has this multiple button thing going, Apple has one button. Why rock the competitive boat? And who knows, there may be some contract between the two stipulating apple to stay with one button mice (kinda like apple inc and apple corps?). Jobs is all for two button mice - the NeXT had one, he uses one to demonstrate exposé in the keynote - so that can't be the problem...

Any thoughts?

I love the Apple mouse by the way - I want one without any wires or adapters to go on the road with my 12" powerbook.

M.

[iHack]

Originally posted by JtheLemur
didn't wade through 7 pages of discussion here yet, but if you wanted to buy just the wireless keyboard and plug a USB mouse into it, you may be outta luck:

http://www.apple.com/hardware/gallery/pmac_sept2003_480.html

doesn't look like there are any USB ports on the keyboard. bummer.

i don't know all the numbers by heart (and can't be bothered to look them up) but Bluetooth is much slower than USB. Any USB over Bluetooth connection would just be too slow. So there is not going to be any USB on the BT keyboard, I guess.http://forums.macrumors.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

[iHack]

i can't believe all the people whining over whether the mouse should be rechargeable in a cradle or not. My family uses a lot of stuff with AA batteries - from my toothbrush to our kids toys and our Canon A70. We have a charger. We have rechargeable AA's. You should get some. They last a lot longer than lithium AA's - I'm guessing I could get at least 5-6 months of life out of my 2100 mAh AA's.

Whew, recharging some batteries 2-4 times a year. I can't bear the workload!

I don't want some cradle for my mouse to sleep in. I want an empty desk and just my powerbook and mouse to travel with.

[themacolyte]

For those who suggest that Apple give the option to skip the mouse and keyboard when ordering a Mac...

Several posters have said they'd like Apple to give them their $70 bucks back for the single button mouse they have no intention of ever using. The price differential would probably be more like $10 - $20. They wouldn't take the price down by the retail cost of the mouse sold separately. They would take off the amount the mouse costs them, a fraction of the retail price. If they were to bring the mouse/keyboard on as a selectable item in the Apple Store, they would raise the price of the computers so that when you chose to remove either, the new total would be $70 less but only the wholesale cost below the price of the computer as it is now. Did you follow that?

You would probably like to have any amount of money back I know, but it's not quite as horrendous as you portray.

Think about the other things people throw money away on. Cell phone charger, cost to retailer between $1 and $2, cost to consumer, $25 to $50 (I used to sell Sprint cell phones so I know). Belkin 10' ether cord, $15 to $20, make it yourself, less than $1.50. I don't feel bad about spending an extra $10 to $20 bucks on the Apple mouse that I don't use anymore - I have a dual G4 I love.:D

[cheapnis]

What pi**es me off most about these stupid single button mice is the signal its sending out to developers.

For example I use Emagic Logic, now owned by Apple of course, and while its a superb application it could be enormously improved in terms of intuitive access to hidden commands by use of a second button/ control click and contextual menus. As it is the app is loaded with key commands that are so complex that people actually sell replacement key pad kits that are colour coded.

OK so you learn the key commands eventually but until you have youre using the mouse all the time to hunt through menus looking for what options you have. .. all the time thinking ( and often futiley pressing the 2nd button) what if its a contextual menu?

It could be so much easier and quicker. These "interface" issues are what its all about now in terms of speed... not so much the processor speed ..... certainly not when I have a dual 2 GHz anyway...

So the point is that by endorsing two buttons by having their own solid design Apple would signal to developers to put these kinds of features into their Apps GUI... sure they are there anyway thanks to third party peripherals, and why? Because its bloody silly not to take advantage of such things that make working easier!

just my rant...

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by oddjobboy
Apple users drink too much coffee and eat too much cake for a white keyboard to remain white for any longer than a month at most.

:D

[j763]

I'm a mac zealot. More than happy to admit it.

However, the decision by Jobs to remain with one mouse button is *so* bloody stupid.

I love Mac OS X and some of the other cool stuff that Apple's doing, but their mice just suck. I've never bought a mac without buying a 3rd party mouse product.

As for those who say that if Apple made a two-button mice, 3rd parties wouldn't support the Mac... That's an incredibly stupid argument if you look at Apple's treatment of 3rd party developers -- both H/W and S/W over the last 5 years.

j.

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by ChronoIMG
I hope your right, however... has Apple ever released a Pro mouse before?

i opened my office drawer and dusted off the mouse that came with my g4. on the bottom it says "PRO MOUSE"

[grapeice]

Guys,

I like Apple's choice to be simple and go with a 1 button mouse. But there are others out there that like to use a 2 button mouse with a scrollwheel. That's cool too. Nothing wrong with that. I think, after reading a majority of these posts, that something that Apple *could* do to help out the situation easily is have an option to not bundle the mouse and keyboard with a new system purchase.

This would involve packaging changes and additions to inventory and shipping applications that they have, which all cost money. However, the whole existence of Apple is to cater to its customers. If many people are complaining about having to pay for a mouse and keyboard they don't want with a new system, then we need to let Apple know in a logical way.

Someone should create a list of signatures all signing a petition that states they would like the mouse and keyboard to be an option when purchasing a new system. If you organize yourselves, you can show Apple how much you want this done. Then, people who want 1-button mice will still like the idea because it gives others a choice and still allows them to keep their mouse, and other mouse people will like it because they have the option to get something else.

Now all you need is someone to step up and accept the challenge to organize this... Come on people, the only way to get change to happen is to be civil and let Apple know what you want. Plain and simple.

Jon

[Jookbox]

Originally posted by merges


I'm just going to repeat, for good measure: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT.

But if you think you know better, then show me YOUR company.

for the last friggin time:
IF YOU BUY A MAC, YOU'RE FORCED TO BUY A 1 BUTTON MOUSE. what don't you understand about that?

[LimeiBook86]

Well I like the new keyboard, I may buy one but then I need a bluetooth adapter for my Power Mac G3 MiniTower. This then gets too expensive, I might as well buy the cheaper Apple USB (wired) keyboard, I guess my ADB Keyboard should go back with the Apple IIgs from which it came...:rolleyes:

I use the IIgs keyboard everyday, nice and compact :D Maybe it's time to crossover to 2003 :p

[bretm]

Originally posted by johnnowak

As for the right click.. the key command is usually faster anyway, so who cares?

As a guy with only one arm, I care. I would prefer the 2 button mouse.

[bretm]

Originally posted by grapeice
Guys,

I like Apple's choice to be simple and go with a 1 button mouse. But there are others out there that like to use a 2 button mouse with a scrollwheel. That's cool too. Nothing wrong with that. I think, after reading a majority of these posts, that something that Apple *could* do to help out the situation easily is have an option to not bundle the mouse and keyboard with a new system purchase.

This would involve packaging changes and additions to inventory and shipping applications that they have, which all cost money. However, the whole existence of Apple is to cater to its customers. If many people are complaining about having to pay for a mouse and keyboard they don't want with a new system, then we need to let Apple know in a logical way.

Someone should create a list of signatures all signing a petition that states they would like the mouse and keyboard to be an option when purchasing a new system. If you organize yourselves, you can show Apple how much you want this done. Then, people who want 1-button mice will still like the idea because it gives others a choice and still allows them to keep their mouse, and other mouse people will like it because they have the option to get something else.

Now all you need is someone to step up and accept the challenge to organize this... Come on people, the only way to get change to happen is to be civil and let Apple know what you want. Plain and simple.

Jon

Maybe you don't recall, but macintoshes didn't use to come with keyboards. My guess is that that type of "catering" pissed off more people than it catered to. How'd you like to come home with your pricey macintosh to show it off, and then discover you had to dish out another 80 bucks if you thought typing was important?

I think they ought to throw two friggin mice in there if there's an option. Or, even better and more logical... throw a two button mouse in the box!!!! How's this argument... "If you don't want to use the second button, DON'T!"

Is there ANYONE out there that has a 2 button mouse that finds control clicking to be easier and therefore refuses to use the second button? Of course not.

[grapeice]

Originally posted by bretm
Maybe you don't recall, but macintoshes didn't use to come with keyboards. My guess is that that type of "catering" pissed off more people than it catered to. How'd you like to come home with your pricey macintosh to show it off, and then discover you had to dish out another 80 bucks if you thought typing was important?

I think they ought to throw two friggin mice in there if there's an option. Or, even better and more logical... throw a two button mouse in the box!!!! How's this argument... "If you don't want to use the second button, DON'T!"

Is there ANYONE out there that has a 2 button mouse that finds control clicking to be easier and therefore refuses to use the second button? Of course not.

Hmm, no, I didn't know that Macs came without keyboards. However, the way you put it, there was no option to add a keyboard with the system that you purchased. What about making it default that the keyboard and mouse are part of the system, but just as with other components, you can change the mouse to something else or remove them entirely?

I think you're missing the point about the mice. No one is ever going to solve an argument about whether 1-button mice or 2-button mice are better. Different people have different preferences, and there's nothing wrong with that. Think of this as a business roadmap:

1. Make a keyboard and mouse both as an option to buying a new system. This involves packaging changes, inventory and ordering software changes, and creating projects for workers to implement such a change. Believe it or not, this consumes resources!

2. (Eventually) Design and sell a two-button and scrollwheel mouse and add that as an option when selling new systems. This will consume a great deal of resources, including R&D, manufacturing, changes to inventory, maybe even packaging, advertising, etc. It takes a lot to make this happen, despite what some people think!

When it's default, people get the keyboard and mouse that they want, and since it can be chosen to remove the mouse and/or keyboard, others can choose to get a third party mouse and keyboard, or eventually choose a newer product from Apple.

As for saying not to use the second button if you don't want to, that's rather silly to those that rarely use a computer and just want something simple. I know many of you guys are smart and handling a two-button mouse is trivial, but for others it gets confusing. My parents had a tough time using a two-button mouse, as did others that I helped when trying to learn the PC. You have to think about everyone in these situations, not just you and the others that are insisting there is nothing else but a 2-button mouse.

Also, there were several people posting here that stated they thought control-clicking was faster and easier for them than using a right-click. Be careful to not make your opinions fact for everyone else. Be mindful of all users.

[rainman::|:|]

jesus christ you people bitch a lot. i can't even sort through the 180+ previous posts because they're all the same thing, blah blah blah. okay, we get it, you want a two button mouse, you didnt GET one, deal with it. If you want Apple to know that you want one, EMAIL THEM. don't just assume that because you anonymously post it on some rumor site, Apple is going to come jumping along with what you want. The rest of us, cannot do anything, and don't really want to hear this... i think it's time for a two button mouse too, but i'm not ready to write a novella about it.

That said, question. Can you simply leave the keyboard and mouse on 24/7, and the "advanced power management" basically shuts it down-- or is that just for short periods, like a couple of hours, and then you're supposed to turn it off for the night. I want one of both of these, but i jump on and off of the computer dozens of times per day, i don't want to have to flip the keyboard over, turn it on, flip it back, pick up the mouse, turn it on... each time...

but yeah, i'm prepared to go shell out cash for these, as i think most of you are, secretly. it's a cool new toy to play with, even if it's not the right color, or button count. i honestly think apple will not take much of a dip in sales of these-- actually they might go up, because it was hard to justify $60 for just a keyboard-- but $69 adds wireless capability... a bit better. you might not even notice that they didn't follow the adjustable-form factor of the pro keyboard... which no doubt decreases production cost a lot.

wonder how much apple makes on each keyboard/mouse? i thought membrane keyboards were supposed to be cheaper...

pnw

[noel4r]

hmm, $69.00 for a single button wireless mouse? what am i stupid? i got my Microsoft 2 button with scroll wireless for $20.00.

[bidge]

Here's a pic from underneath

[iHack]

Originally posted by grapeice
snip

As for saying not to use the second button if you don't want to, that's rather silly to those that rarely use a computer and just want something simple. I know many of you guys are smart and handling a two-button mouse is trivial, but for others it gets confusing. My parents had a tough time using a two-button mouse, as did others that I helped when trying to learn the PC. You have to think about everyone in these situations, not just you and the others that are insisting there is nothing else but a 2-button mouse.

snip


And there actually are people who have avoided getting the general idea of a mouse altogether. This brings to mind an incident a few years ago with our former prime minister (Wim Kok - I'm in the Netherlands). An 8th grader was showing him some project on a computer (I believe it was a PC) and invited him to see for himself what her project was about. He actually picked up the mouse and pointed it to the screen, as if it was some TV remote... Of course, the incident got all the media attention it deserved.

M.

oh, for Americans reading this: we are actually used to politicians being quite intelligent, especially those in charge.

[bretm]

Originally posted by grapeice


Also, there were several people posting here that stated they thought control-clicking was faster and easier for them than using a right-click. Be careful to not make your opinions fact for everyone else. Be mindful of all users.

Well, as a one armed guy I guess I am biased. It's just my nose is getting a little raw and the control key is getting a little snotty.

Your options are as you pointed out consuming to resources. Exactly what a company doesn't want. They also shouldn't confuse the cosumer (as you pointed out about the 2 button mouse and your parents).

Giving the new user options about a 1 and 2 button mouse is definitely not what they need. When they ask which is better for them, they'll get techno speak about how one or the other is better, etc. but in the end, it will be a meaningless diatribe, since of course, they are a new user.

The keyboards were a choice before. They did cost extra and weren't included in the computer price. MOST people selling you the computer remembered to ask which you want. They of course always told me I needed the more expensive one. Since they didn't really know, they just covered their butts. I'm sure some just forgot about it altogether and didn't sell you a keyboard at all.

I like the simplest solutions. I haven't read a single post by anyone that prefers a one button mouse complaining that they were FORCED to buy apple's one button mouse. I think they expect a mouse to come with a computer and are either perfectly happy with the apple one button, or perfectly happy buying their favorite 3rd party one button mouse.

What I have seen is an unlimited number of 2 button mouse lovers complaining that they were FORCED to buy a 1 button mouse from apple. To them it was a useless purchase. To the other group mentioned above, it's an extra mouse. Big difference.

As much as I feel for your parents inability to understand the 2 buttons because they are new computer users, I feel that that is just part of the experience of learning a computer. I'm sure new users are confused by all sorts of things on a computer. But just because it could be simpler doesn't mean it should be. I mean, the mac would be simpler to use if somewhere on the screen it said "start" but it doesn't mean we should add it. Maybe programs shouldn't have so many menu items because they'd be easier to use. Maybe we shouldn't have a caps lock key either because someone might accidentally turn it on and not know how to turn it off.

Seriously though, technology can only cater so much to those that find it difficult. I'm sure the second mouse button is confusing to new users. Until they learn what it is. Just like they have to learn to press the enter key, and to double click on items, and to click and hold, or to option click, or to control click.

IMHO, putting a 2 mouse button in the box would solve 95% of the issues and only cause a couple confusion issues with new users. Giving the choice at purchase would solve the issue with advanced users that know what they want, but would add purchasing confusion with new users and possible ordering mixups. Some people would be angry they got the wrong mouse or didn't get a mouse. Most likely, sales people would simply get them the 2 button mouse to avoid discussing the option with them and to cover their butts. Stores might run out of 2 button mice and only have 1 button mice available. That would sure tick a purchaser off! Then of course what do they or apple do with the extra mice? Not knowing exactly how many mice to produce would mean a certain amount of waste that would have to be accounted for in the pricing of all the mice.

Just put a 2 button mouse in the box an let your parents be confused for 2 or 3 minutes. They'll be ok. Really. :)

[dhdave]

Bottom line is, if you don't like the thread don't read it. I don't know which is worse, those bitching or those bitching about those bitching. I don't think I've ever seen this community as fractous as it is right now. People don't always agree. Get over it people. Stop being so offended that somebody would criticize Apple. I love Apple, but personally I think they've missed the boat for YEARS on the mouse thing. The two button functionality is built right in to the OS for heaven's sake. Why they won't offer a two button mouse, if even only for "pros", is beyond me. But that's just my .02, which incidently is what I thought these forums were for to begin with.

dh

[Mehmet]

blahness..

mx700 here i come..

another thing to think about, i guess apple never really thought of 3d designers when they did this. Maya pretty much REQUIRES a 3 button mouse, i love using my 3 button mouse to dolly/zoom the view, lot more convinient then clicking once on the move button then on the dolly button, and then the zoom...

Definetly a step back..

[tazznb]

Originally posted by gotohamish
Sell it then - you get almost all your money back selling them on eBay.

I bought 11 iMacs last year, and sold all the keyboards and mice and all sold within $5 of the Apple asking price.

Why should I go through all the trouble of going to ebay to sell something Apple dumped on me!

I don't know who makes me angrier; MS apologists, or Apple apologists.

A dumb idea is a dumb idea, is a dumb idea.

[grapeice]

Originally posted by bretm
Your options are as you pointed out consuming to resources. Exactly what a company doesn't want. They also shouldn't confuse the cosumer (as you pointed out about the 2 button mouse and your parents).

Giving the new user options about a 1 and 2 button mouse is definitely not what they need. When they ask which is better for them, they'll get techno speak about how one or the other is better, etc. but in the end, it will be a meaningless diatribe, since of course, they are a new user.

Perhaps we're thinking too hard about this (everyone, not just you or me). Why do we need to decide how everything is done? Some people want 1-button mice, and some want 2-buttons with a scrollwheel. Since 2-buttons with a scrollwheel is not an offering from Apple, why don't we just get a petition together showing Apple that this is something the Mac community wants. Let Apple decide what they need to do in terms of cost and a business plan to get to the point where a 2-button mouse can be offered as an option.

What do you think?

[mvc]

Originally posted by tazznb
A dumb idea is a dumb idea, is a dumb idea.

Yeah, actually, its the entire mouse concept that's a dumb idea. Great for beginners and grade schoolers, but what pros really need are holographic 3D haptics - Anyone seen Minority Report?

Give me a rig like that and I'd get some serious work done :D

[dr weebl]

Originally posted by sockgap
Garbage. That thing costs $50 from the Apple store, and the cheapest I can see them online is $31 ($37.95 with shipping).

erm ingram micro is a distributor and dont sell to end users the price from them when i ordered it was about £11 +vat which works out at under $20 just means that apples making around $30 on each one

[VIREBEL661]

Man, I gotta agree with everyone else on this point. I have the MacAlly iOpti Jr. 3 button scroll wheel mouse on all my Macs, I love it, it rocks. It's wired.. Call me jaded, but if my keyboard and mouse were wireless, I'd probably lose them, especially the mouse (cats like to knock stuff off the desk and hide it)! ALSO, worry about batteries? I would rather have the keyboard tethered and illuminated, now THAT would rock. Being a huge Mac fan, it really bugs me they can't get over the 1 button 1984 mouse thing either. C'mon guys, we're on UNIX now, where mice have been 3 BUTTON forever. It's gotta be a Stevism... Well, he usually does a great job, I guess nobody's perfect..

[VIREBEL661]

And one more niggle - the mouse is too big! Just my opinion - anyone from Apple, are you reading??

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by dhdave
Bottom line is, if you don't like the thread don't read it. I don't know which is worse, those bitching or those bitching about those bitching. I don't think I've ever seen this community as fractous as it is right now. People don't always agree. Get over it people. Stop being so offended that somebody would criticize Apple. I love Apple, but personally I think they've missed the boat for YEARS on the mouse thing. The two button functionality is built right in to the OS for heaven's sake. Why they won't offer a two button mouse, if even only for "pros", is beyond me. But that's just my .02, which incidently is what I thought these forums were for to begin with.

dh

Totallly agree - the weird thing is, that when you use a multi button mouse, like, all the menus are there - on cross platform apps like Dreamweaver, they're the same as windoze! So a lot of Mac users could be missing a degree of functionality, which is a drag...

[gello2424]

I think they look nice but they still look the same so that is pointless. I agree most people would not find any use for a one button mouse so I am with everyone there.

But what I would miss most is that keyboard USB ports. I have 10 of the now with a add in card and sometimes find myself wish I had just one more. I know that this is not possible but that is what would stop me from getting the keyboard and mouse.

I think Apple will hopefully have a two button mouse with scroll wheel but till then I look at this way I can save 30 bones going anb buying a Logitech cordless mouse.

I am positive that when games start really taking off on Macs we will start seeing the really useful things like the normal mouse.

[simX]

As I said before: "Blah, blah, blah, no multiple buttons, no scroll wheel, blah, blah, blah." How did I guess it was going to turn into a complain-o-thread about how Apple was so bone-headed to not make a two-button mouse? Big freaking WHOOP. :rolleyes:

For all of those people that are complaining about the one button mouse that Apple ships with its computers:

Please find my physical mailing address here (http://homepage.mac.com/simx/registerindex.html). You can also e-mail me directly by clicking here (mailto:simX@mac.com). I will buy your Apple mouse from you, gladly reimbursing you the shipping costs, plus giving you an extra $10 for the "inconvenience" that Apple caused you by "forcing" you to buy the standard one-button mouse, as long as you will SHUT THE HELL UP already. :rolleyes: :p

Oh, and by the way, in case anyone was wondering, I am completely serious about buying your Apple mice from you. Of course, if you don't want to sell it, I'll just assume that you're a closet one-button mouse user or a hypocrite.

[zoozx]

I don't give a Rats A-SS what the friggin mouse or keyboard looks like, GEEZ.
Buy a flower if that is important and shove it up ur .......... apple.

As a professional I want something that is going to speed up my work flow, is comfortable, durable, and has a 2 button mouse with a frigging scroll wheel.
For the millionth time!
When my G5 dual arrives, If Ever

:mad: apple, I'm taking that piece O C-rap 1 button obsolete piece of monkey spunk with a tail and throwing the thing out the window. First a round mouse then this monkey SH!!!
WAKE UP APPLE.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Steven1621]

i happen to be a fan on the one button mouse. for some reason, i happen to like it.

it is strange however for apple to ignore consumer complaints so much. there has been an outcry for 2 btn, scroll mouse for as along as i can remember. is it just to be different from the pc market? strange...

ALSO

if anyone hates there one button mouse so much that they would want to give it to me, i would be more than happy to take it. :D

just PM me! i'll pay for shipping!

[iHack]

Originally posted by zoozx
I don't give a Rats A-SS what the friggin mouse or keyboard looks like, GEEZ.
Buy a flower if that is important and shove it up ur .......... apple.

As a professional I want something that is going to speed up my work flow, is comfortable, durable, and has a 2 button mouse with a frigging scroll wheel.
For the millionth time!
When my G5 dual arrives, If Ever

:mad: apple, I'm taking that piece O C-rap 1 button obsolete piece of monkey spunk with a tail and throwing the thing out the window. First a round mouse then this monkey SH!!!
WAKE UP APPLE.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Excuse me, waiter!
Yes, sir, how can I help you?
Could you stop serving this poor man coffee please. It seems to interfere with his meditation.

Hey no need to get all worked up! A replacement costs around 1% of your G5, even less if you count your cinema display. It's just a mouse...

M.

[merges]

Originally posted by e-coli
Overwhelming negative rating on this thread. Looks like Apple went down swinging on this one.

I feel compelled to point out that this is a fanatical message board, and Apple hasn't "gone down"... unless you have surprising and magical access to Apple's sales numbers?

[merges]

Originally posted by Jookbox
for the last friggin time:
IF YOU BUY A MAC, YOU'RE FORCED TO BUY A 1 BUTTON MOUSE. what don't you understand about that?

As I recall, these bluetooth peripherals are an accessory to be purchased separately.

[merges]

Originally posted by Steven1621
it is strange however for apple to ignore consumer complaints so much. there has been an outcry for 2 btn, scroll mouse for as along as i can remember. is it just to be different from the pc market? strange...

Since when do you have access to the database of complaints (and corresponding useful market statistics) that indicate Apple should be making a multi-button mouse? Just because you, and a few other people on this message board, and a few people you've heard about (perhaps even hundreds or thousands) want one, doesn't mean that the vast majority (the important number) want one. Nor is it obvious that it's the best decision, regardless of what consumers *say* they want; a number of important considerations have obviously been pointed out on this board, and I have no doubt that Apple has put about 100 times as much thought into their product as we have, collectively, on this board.

[pjhornak]

Originally posted by bidge
Here's a pic from underneath

is it that time of the month already

[simX]

Originally posted by merges
As I recall, these bluetooth peripherals are an accessory to be purchased separately.

I think what he was talking about was the regular one-button wired mouse that comes with every Mac when you purchase it. But, as has been pointed out, you can easily sell these mice to other people to recoup your money.

My offer still stands Jookbox.

[MUrhino]

Originally posted by simX
Blah, blah, blah, no multiple buttons, no scroll wheel, blah, blah, blah.

Would you guys like to complain about the lack of a PowerBook G5 in here, too? :rolleyes:

NEXT.

Let me get this straight. The ONLY difference between the current keyboard and mouse and the new ones released today is the issue of wireless? I'm certaintly not going to pay $69 for each when that's the only freakin' benefit. They don't even offer it as an option to replace the wired version. You have to buy it extra. C'mon Apple, this is elementary. Think!

[MUrhino]

Originally posted by zoozx


:mad: apple, I'm taking that piece O C-rap 1 button obsolete piece of monkey spunk with a tail and throwing the thing out the window. First a round mouse then this monkey SH!!!
WAKE UP APPLE.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

It's funny 'cause it's true! Classic :p

[solvs]

9 pages of "it should be 2 buttons and a scroll". Yeah it's expensive for what it is, I won't buy it, but someone might. If you want yer multiple buttons and wheels, go buy a Logitech. Or *shudder* M$. Which has also been said a million times.

Sure we'd all like Apple mice, but we didn't get what we wanted. Oh well. Move it along. Nothing to see here.

[blueflame]

even with a two button mouse, you dont have t use both, you can still cntrl click things, so for users of a one button mouse, nothing much has changed, for two button mouse users, they are missing a vital part of their system.
im just wondering, has anyone seen the logitech trael mouse, its silver curved metal, it seems like a very apple design to me, if you dont want to use the second button dont
what bugs me about this is not that they came out with a one button mouse, but that they arnt giving the option. what makes apple apple, is the fact that everything that is made feel liek it was made for you, for your computer. right? isnt that the allure, and what makes people keep buyin whatever it is even if they dont need it. its the fact that it has that apple symbol on it, and it means it is for you, and not like a dell, which everyone and their mother makes **** for. thats what makes apple special.
why couldnt they just give us an option?
fortunately, macosrumors.com says that a multi button is for sure, and i think i will buy the keyboard, and hold out on the mouse for now. from what i have experianced with logitech, the batteries last a eally long time, even without an on off switch.
my .2 cents
Andreas

[Genie]

http://www.geniesongs.com/genie/endorsements/apple/Genie-G5Computer50pix.jpg (http://geniesongs.com/personal.html)

That's me with my new G5.

I don't love the mouse.

What's the wireless range on these things?

[bretm]

Originally posted by solvs
9 pages of "it should be 2 buttons and a scroll". Yeah it's expensive for what it is, I won't buy it, but someone might. If you want yer multiple buttons and wheels, go buy a Logitech. Or *shudder* M$. Which has also been said a million times.

Sure we'd all like Apple mice, but we didn't get what we wanted. Oh well. Move it along. Nothing to see here.

Yeah, you too. Move it along. Nothing to post about here. :)

But isn't that the whole point of forums? So you can tell people not to read the 9 pages if they're not interested?

[new user]

Originally posted by solvs
9 pages of "it should be 2 buttons and a scroll". Yeah it's expensive for what it is, I won't buy it, but someone might.

note to steve jobs' granny: stop buying all those apple mouses, your grandson actually thinks there is a market for it.

[bretm]

Originally posted by merges
Since when do you have access to the database of complaints (and corresponding useful market statistics) that indicate Apple should be making a multi-button mouse? Just because you, and a few other people on this message board, and a few people you've heard about (perhaps even hundreds or thousands) want one, doesn't mean that the vast majority (the important number) want one. Nor is it obvious that it's the best decision, regardless of what consumers *say* they want; a number of important considerations have obviously been pointed out on this board, and I have no doubt that Apple has put about 100 times as much thought into their product as we have, collectively, on this board.

Dang. When you're right you're right. We should just close up MacRumors and just listen to Apple. They always know what's right. After all, I'm sure it was their brilliant marked research that brought us that hockey puck of a mouse that was undirectional and practically caused carpel tunnel in a day. Or, or, or, hey, maybe it was the brillant keyboard that went along with it that was missing the "FULL SIZE T" as apple puts it, and the standard delete key. Genius. C'mon. They're not exactly batting a thousand in the keyboard and mouse area. Maybe people like us do need to shout. Do you actually believe that Jobs doesn't occasionally do what the hell he wants, no matter what research says? It's known that the original mouse was designed with less buttons than the xerox model because the xerox model was confusing. The mac was for the people. Simple, elegant. Well, computing has grown quite a bit and it's obvious to me that such a big deal was made about the one button, that Jobs has a hard time dealing with the idea of a 2 button. How's he going to hype and market the new 2 button as anything but eating crow?

[bretm]

Originally posted by merges
As I recall, these bluetooth peripherals are an accessory to be purchased separately.

Ok, I'll take this one...

APPLE DOESNT MAKE A ONE BUTTON MOUSE. BLUETOOTH OR OTHERWISE.

There, think he heard me? People are complaining that apple STILL doesn't make a 2 button. They are FORCED into buying a 1 button BECAUSE it comes with a new mac. They WISH it was an option to get a 2 button, so their MONEY won't be wasted on a mouse they're going to sit aside.

[Gyroscope]

I can/could live without fckn second mouse button, but without scroll-wheel never never.

At least they could 've put scroll wheel.




:o

[bretm]

Originally posted by Steven1621
i happen to be a fan on the one button mouse. for some reason, i happen to like it.

it is strange however for apple to ignore consumer complaints so much. there has been an outcry for 2 btn, scroll mouse for as along as i can remember. is it just to be different from the pc market? strange...

ALSO

if anyone hates there one button mouse so much that they would want to give it to me, i would be more than happy to take it. :D

just PM me! i'll pay for shipping!

Hmmm... maybe! Even as a fan of the one button mouse, I've got to say that the apple one button mouse is horrible. In fact, it's probably not so obvious to the first time computer user that it even is a button.

It has 2 major design flaws.

1. Often, I push it toward the little mass of cord in front of it. The thin cord just slightly gets under the front, preventing me from clicking down.

2. I've often gotten irrated at a piece of software and sorta tossed the mouse down on the pad. Not hard to break it, just kinda in disgust. The mouse then clicks on something. Further ticking me off.

Those 2 parts on the side look more like buttons.

[bretm]

Originally posted by grapeice
Perhaps we're thinking too hard about this (everyone, not just you or me). Why do we need to decide how everything is done? Some people want 1-button mice, and some want 2-buttons with a scrollwheel. Since 2-buttons with a scrollwheel is not an offering from Apple, why don't we just get a petition together showing Apple that this is something the Mac community wants. Let Apple decide what they need to do in terms of cost and a business plan to get to the point where a 2-button mouse can be offered as an option.

What do you think?

Petition? Cost and business plan to make the 2-button mouse happen?

You don't need a committee, consensus or petition. Steve is holding this one up. Period. Ego. That's all.

[Capn_Moho]

I feel dumber after reading this. Why did I read it? WHY!!?!?!?!

[yujini]

yeah as long as steve is still alive we won't see a 2 button mouse.

That's my guess.

[g4pismo]

Wow! That’s a lot of text about mice! I think those pesky buttons on the keyboard are confusing to computer users too :-) If my old man can handle 101 'buttons', I have faith that he can figure out one more. ** Lighten up fellow MAC folks ** I want CHOICES as well. Right now my choice is a MicroShaft mouse. It would be nice to shift my funds to Apple, but that’s not in the cards. It would be great if I could save a couple bones on another mouse/keyboard on new Mac, but I can't. If I can get the cash together for a new G5, I think I could probably budget for an extra mouse. Think of it this way, your "Shiny New Macintosh" has ram that will more than likely get replaced by larger 'sticks', same with hard drive when the 300gb SATA drive hits the market or whatever else happens to not fit your needs. Lots of things give way to individual preference. Just my humble opinion. BTW, my next mouse WILL have 9 buttons and a microwave...

[new user]

at this point, apple not making at least a two button or scroll mouse an accessory is essentially throwing money away.

for apple, the demand is proven. and they know, by the mac mob, that a good portion of purchasers will eat whatever they sell. so it doesn't make sense for users, it doesn't make sense for apple's bottom line.

one of the things i will regret is adding a third party mouse that will break up my laptop design scheme. i need a scroll on the mouse at the very least. it's a small hassle for me, admittedly, but doesn't mean it still ain't a hassle.

[jmhunter83]

the logitech mx900... its 99.99 has everything we all want, has a charger and bluetooth hub combined for those of us who don't have blutooth yet... question is does it work with mac?
jacob

[spinko]

[Not everybody (not even the majority, for that fact) wants a two button/scrolling wheel mouse...

how do you know... switchers will most certainely be looking for a second button.. and besides, if you are used to a one-button mouse you won't worry about the second button, you may even get used to working with it..

:)

spinko

[Genie]

I'm so hooked on my Wacom tablet I couldn't be converted to ANY mouse.

http://www.geniesongs.com/genie/endorsements/apple/Genie-G5Computer50pix.jpg (http://geniesongs.com/personal.html)
That's me with my new G5 - mouseless...

[yujini]

I wonder how heavy the mouse will be.
Probably as heavy as the mx700 since the batteries
itself are pretty heavy.
Guess I wouldn't be able to bring it aroudn anyways.

[tony c]

I can't understand why commercially Apple won't produce a multi-button mouse as well as the single button item.

Clearly a percentage of users want one because they go out and buy them anyway, it's just the money goes elsewhere.

Given that iTunes and the iPod are going to be Wintel compatible why not also produce a really top quality, multi button, scrolling, must-have device that's also compatable with Windows. It could generate more switchers and converts.

[mkaake]

Originally posted by bretm
Just put a 2 button mouse in the box an let your parents be confused for 2 or 3 minutes. They'll be ok. Really. :)

talk to my grandmother, an internet junky, who has been using windoze since 3.1. or my grandfather for that matter.

2 or 3 laptops, i believe 4 desktops, windows 3.1, 95, 98, 98se, and now xp.

and they BOTH still get confused by two buttons. people just really don't get it - hey, if i can figure it out in two minutes, why can't every one else?

*cough*

good golly.

can't we all, just get along?

i'm pretty freakin sure that no-one's opinions on mice are going to change, because everyone is just gearing up for a war here...

matt

[msxgames]

Originally posted by Daschund
Today I asked 18 of them about the possibility of having a two buttoned mouse only to hear the answer "Why would I want that? I wouldn't use the other button anyway..."


To me the question would be to ask them if they would find it inconvenient to have a 2 buttons with scroll wheel? Are they against it or do they just not care about it.

Problem solved, get a two buttons mouse and just use the left button if you don't care about the other stuff. At least, it would give the choice to do whatever you want.
Today there's no choice.

[stevesien]

" I'm just going to repeat, for good measure: IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T BUY IT."

Yes, we are forced to buy a useless one button mouse when we purchase a new
mac, that's the whole point. Genius

[Squire]

Originally posted by merges
Since when do you have access to the database of complaints (and corresponding useful market statistics) that indicate Apple should be making a multi-button mouse? Just because you, and a few other people on this message board, and a few people you've heard about (perhaps even hundreds or thousands) want one, doesn't mean that the vast majority (the important number) want one. Nor is it obvious that it's the best decision, regardless of what consumers *say* they want; a number of important considerations have obviously been pointed out on this board, and I have no doubt that Apple has put about 100 times as much thought into their product as we have, collectively, on this board.

Hear, hear!


Originally posted by solvs
9 pages of "it should be 2 buttons and a scroll". Yeah it's expensive for what it is, I won't buy it, but someone might. If you want yer multiple buttons and wheels, go buy a Logitech. Or *shudder* M$. Which has also been said a million times.

Sure we'd all like Apple mice, but we didn't get what we wanted. Oh well. Move it along. Nothing to see here.

And again.

Call me a lunatic, but I like the single-button mouse BETTER! Mind you, I don't have a lot of experience with mice. ;) I just like the way my hand sits on my Apple mouse (and how I push the whole thing down) better than the arched position of my PC mouse. I'm being totally objective about this. In fact, after reading the 100th rant about the new peripherals, I grabbed my Apple mouse and my PC mouse, then compared my comfort.

Note #1: My PC mouse is dirt cheap, not a fancy Logitech one.
Note #2: I don't do any design work or any serious computing.

Keep those points in mind before you open fire.

Squire

[zoozx]

Mouse for tots.
I'm going to start a web site where you can take that WORTHLESS piece of Monkey SH 1 button mouse apple forces you to pay for when you buy a PROfessional machine and send it in and we will donate it to charity.
Oh wait a minute, it isn't worth anything
cause it is CRAP!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Brent Turbo]

Hey guys, I'm gonna go cry about this for a while.

Okay, so you've gotta spend 30 extra bucks to get the mouse you REALLY want, right? When was the last time you bitched and ranted online because, say, you wanted to put your own CD changer in your new Honda, but the cheapest option you could get bundled with the car was the FM radio. WHY SHOULD I PAY FOR AN FM RADIO I'M GOING TO THROW OUT, WHEN I REALLY WANT A CD CHANGER?!?!

Honestly, would anyone go online and waste their time with this? No, because most of us have sense enough to know that you don't always get what you want, and if you're graceful, you can handle it, do something about it, and move on. If you're going to spend $3,000+ on a new mac w/ monitor, then what's another 30 bucks to you?

Are you going to complain that Apple bundles iTunes, but you like Audion better, therefore you shouldn't have to pay for those hard man-hours of development? I bet there are a few here who think that's a good argument!

Here's an idea, for the cry babies out there, Apple should make an Apple Store JUST FOR YOU! When you purchase a product, you get to allocate your money ONLY to the departments, product R+D or individuals you think should be getting it. http://store.apple.com/crybabies

You are a CONSUMER, not the friggin' Mayor of Appleville. GET USED TO IT!

[plinkoman]

anyone other then me notice that it still says apple wireless mouse & keyboard, and not pro wireless mouse and keyboard?

[Photorun]

I think Apple should put a dual button mouse in their boxes THEN hear your single button mouse lovers bitch and moan just so the (clearly by the negatives on this post) majority of us wanting two buttons can tell you to suck it up when you have to go buy a single button third party mouse.

BTW, you won't find hardly any single button third button mice because NOBODY USES THEM! Save for some fruitcakes in this forum.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by Photorun
I think Apple should put a dual button mouse in their boxes THEN hear your single button mouse lovers bitch and moan just so the (clearly by the negatives on this post) majority of us wanting two buttons can tell you to suck it up when you have to go buy a single button third party mouse.

BTW, you won't find hardly any single button third button mice because NOBODY USES THEM! Save for some fruitcakes in this forum.

Right, there are no third party one-button mice.

Which means you have the choice to buy one.

Thank you, Apple, for giving us choices.

BTW, I only use a single button mouse with my Macs. I must be a fruitcake. You've been reported.

[eyelikeart]

fruitcakes?!

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by plinkoman
anyone other then me notice that it still says apple wireless mouse & keyboard, and not pro wireless mouse and keyboard?

I noticed. I imagine Apple are keeping their options open.

[pseudobrit]

Originally posted by eyelikeart
fruitcakes?!

Namecalling is namecalling...

I can't understand how people get so frothing mad about Apple not killing the one-button mouse yet. It's just not going to happen. And since you can buy a third-party mouse with as many buttons as your heart desires, why bother crucifying Apple for not making one?

[rdowns]

[i]
I am not begrudging people the strange desire for these peripherals, but it sucks that Apple does not offer some variety BTO. The price for them is built into the systems, and you cannot remove them BTO. That is BS. At the very least, let me remove a keyboard and mouse altogether from an order. [/B]

Anyone remember that Apple used to sell their keyboards separately? Their last good KB was the Extended KB II. I think they're missing a huge opportunity here by not offering the KB separately, I can see having to bundle a mouse.

Bundle a one button mouse and offer 2 button scrool wheel (wired and BT) as options.

Offer wired or BT KBs as options.

No need to pay for what you don't want.

[Squire]

Originally posted by Photorun
I think Apple should put a dual button mouse in their boxes THEN hear your single button mouse lovers bitch and moan just so the (clearly by the negatives on this post) majority of us wanting two buttons can tell you to suck it up when you have to go buy a single button third party mouse.

BTW, you won't find hardly any single button third button mice because NOBODY USES THEM! Save for some fruitcakes in this forum.

Your comment "clearly by the negatives on this post" is irrelevant. Generally, people who are pissed off complain and those who are content just mind their own business. In other words, people who don't give a damn about the mouse would not have voted.

Squire

[rdowns]

Originally posted by Daschund
I had to post on this one (this is my first post on the forum)...

Flame me if you want, but I have to take stand on the soap box and say this...

I'm a photographer and a graphic designer. I've been an art director for ad agencies for more than 10 years. I have a Kensington mouse that I use on my PowerBook (only because the Apple mouse is a little too expensive, if any of you that don't use yours, please send one to me!) that has two buttons and the scrolling wheel and I use only one button. ALL my mac friends that also work on ad agencies, graphic design companies or are photographers use the Apple mouse. Today I asked 18 of them about the possibility of having a two buttoned mouse only to hear the answer "Why would I want that? I wouldn't use the other button anyway..."

So I guess that it's not as you all are bashing here. Not everybody (not even the majority, for that fact) wants a two button/scrolling wheel mouse. Might be the majority of the people that reads macrumors everyday, but from all the people that I know that work all day long in programs like Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Quark and OSX, nobody cares about that. They were all really excited about the wireless mouse also.

Again, flame me as much as you want, but just because you really think that everybody wants a two button mouse, it won't make that become a reality. It might make you be considered crazy or fascist thou! LOL LOL LOL

(coming down from the soap box...)


Sorry, must flame you.

You're worrying over a few measly 10 dollar bills for a mouse? If it really was that good, you'd fork over the extra money.

I'm what is considered a prosumer, I guess. Let's look at the Finder (forget applications), where most of us have as the destination of our d/l's. After mounting a disk image, my 2 button mouse just right clicks the image to discard into the trash. Your one button mouse has to click the image to highlight and travel all the way up to the menus to trash it.

After installing the disk image, I simply right click to eject it. Your one button mouse has to click the image to highlight and travel all the way up to the menus to eject it.

How is that more efficient or better for RSI which more and more suffer from?

As for scrolling, when I come home and read this forum (or any web site/page for that matter), I usually have my TV on, feet up on the desk and my wireless (Microsoft, OK flame me, IntelliMouse) mouse on my stomach so I can scroll through the threads without using page down, the space bar or down arrow. Sorry, but how anyone can't see how a scroll bar (forget the 2 button arguement) is a useful additon is beyond me.

Whenever I show somone at work (damn MS-Intel installed base) how to properly use their 2 button mouse, they are eternally grateful. Without a doubt, a productivity booster.

OK, you're off your soapbox and I'm done flaming.

[rdowns]

Originally posted by mateft
If apple did a 2 button mouse then they would have to change the mouse pref panel. For right and left ahnded people. That is what i loved bout the original pro mouse. used by both left and right handed people.

If a 2 button mouse should show up then expect to see the pref panel to change to allow the use to specift a left or right handed person.

Could easily be accomplished during the set up of the OS for a new computer. For multiple user systems, a simple righ-handed/left-handed tab in the mouse control panel would suffice.

[rdowns]

Originally posted by myrdred23


Before, Apple offered one-button wired mice, now you have a choice between a one-button wired or a one-button !wired mouse.

We don't have a choice. You have to buy the standard one button mouse with the system. If you want the wireless, you have to buy it in addition.

Choice myass!

[socbyset]

Originally posted by merges
...

and I have no doubt that Apple has put about 100 times as much thought into their product as we have, collectively, on this board.

I do. Any company can make harebrained decisions. And Jobs can be stubborn and dictatorial, and is famous for rejecting stuff like focus groups and received wisdom and making decisions by intuition. It's an important part of his genius of course and it makes Apple the great company it is. But it also means that we'll suffer from the bad decisions, and for a long time. I'd wager that Steve can be unreceptive to user feedback if he's sure he's right.

I mean, to take a minor example, what was the deal with the original, perfectly-circular iMac mouse? You couldn't tell by touch if you were grasping it right until you saw the cursor veer off in the wrong direction when you moved the mouse. Though mercifully that was fixed of course.

Nobody is beyond criticism. Big thinkers can make big mistakes.

[merges]

Originally posted by socbyset
I do. Any company can make harebrained decisions. And Jobs can be stubborn and dictatorial, and is famous for rejecting stuff like focus groups and received wisdom and making decisions by intuition. It's an important part of his genius of course and it makes Apple the great company it is. But it also means that we'll suffer from the bad decisions, and for a long time. I'd wager that Steve can be unreceptive to user feedback if he's sure he's right.

I mean, to take a minor example, what was the deal with the original, perfectly-circular iMac mouse? You couldn't tell by touch if you were grasping it right until you saw the cursor veer off in the wrong direction when you moved the mouse. Though mercifully that was fixed of course.

I believe that the round mouse was an honest attempt to accommodate more users' preferences for holding the mouse different ways. I.e. whole hand, finger, multiple fingers, etc. Granted, it didnt' work out as expected, so they corrected it.

Interestingly enough, they haven't added a second mouse button, ever. Many mice, including some NeXT mice, had two buttons, IIRC. I don't think it's an issue as shallow as you make it seem.

However, I do agree that smart people make mistakes. I just don't think this is one of those mistakes. I think it's a highly deliberate, well-planned move.

[tazznb]

Originally posted by merges
I believe that the round mouse was an honest attempt to accommodate more users' preferences for holding the mouse different ways. I.e. whole hand, finger, multiple fingers, etc. Granted, it didnt' work out as expected, so they corrected it. (THANK GOD!)

Interestingly enough, they haven't added a second mouse button, ever. Many mice, including some NeXT mice, had two buttons, IIRC. I don't think it's an issue as shallow as you make it seem. (I think it's even more shallow)

However, I do agree that smart people make mistakes. I just don't think this is one of those mistakes. I think it's a highly deliberate, well-planned move.

For Apple's sake I hope it is; I know it won't take hardly any R&D since other comapnies have laid out most of the hard groundwork for them. :o

[Dahl]

Originally posted by yujini
I wonder how heavy the mouse will be.
Probably as heavy as the mx700 since the batteries
itself are pretty heavy.
Guess I wouldn't be able to bring it aroudn anyways.
I didn't read the whole thread, but that's my concern too.

[Genie]

http://www.geniesongs.com/genie/endorsements/apple/Genie-G5Computer50pix.jpg (http://geniesongs.com/personal.html)

Why would anybody want a mouse when you can have have a graphics tablet with two extra buttons on the pen?