iTunes Music Store for Europe - Next Year

[MacRumors]

A Reuters article (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/0309a16/tech_apple_1.html) reports on Apple Expo Paris, but provides some new information on Apple's plans for the iTunes Music Store.

When questioned about the launch of the iTunes Music Store for Europe, Jobs replied "We're clearly working on it (but) I think we'll do it next year". Distribution rights are cited as the reason for the delay.

Jobs did reiterate that iTunes for Windows would be coming this year and claimed "We're very much on track to execute iTunes for Windows".

Meanwhile, the most recent rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030915125333.shtml) have pointed towards an October release for iTunes for Windows.

[pbooker]

I realize we're not as big a market as Europe, but anyone have an idea on when iTMS is coming to Canada?

[Stella]

Obviously Apple haven't tried hard enough to get it released this year.

I'm sure if they tried hard enough, they would have got it out for some countries.

But no.... dragging their heels.

I would be surprised to ever see an international iTunes.

I'd be very surprised to see an Australian version. Sorry, I just don't see it: looking at recent reports to how Apple treat that part of the world - they can bearly get their products over there.

[woodsey]

This is not good news!

I think they should have pushed to release at the same time as the Mac Music Store

[dho]

good new and bad news.

Was this an official statement?

[deepkid]

Having my own record label has taught me how tangled a business web content licensing can be.

I realize that many are frustrated and want to shop on iTMS, but if you had to read through and comprehend even the shortest contract that's often used between parties (artists, record labels, publishers, distributors), you'd understand why Apple appears to be taking a long time.

In fact, it's just the opposite considering how liberal the usage rights of iTMS is (from a major record label's perspective, mind you).

It truly is incredible that they've been able to offer such low, flat pricing and across the board terms with the major labels in the U. S.

Hopefully this will add to the momentum of establishing similar services in other territories, but the laws are different and are the epitome of bureaucracy.

Be thankful that you're just a music lover and collector. You're shielded from a lot of headaches and frustration.

[jimthorn]

I'll just be glad to see my Windows friends using iTunes, especially the ones with iPods. It's one step closer to them converting to Mac.

[settledown]

does he mean kill the project?

[MacFan26]

Perhaps it has something to do with the Apple vs. Apple suit? I think it's more important right now to get the iTMS out for Windows in the US, and then release it in other countries.

[BevvyB]

the reuters link is down

[isgoed]

I was hoping for an European launch before windows.

One of the problems might be the pricing of the songs. Since the price drop of CD's in America, CD's in the Netherlands are now priced three times as high as american CD's. I surely not see songs priced at 0.99€. More likely 1.50€ or even 2.00€ per song.

And are there even plans for iTMS on other continents? Sure they can be a huge market...

[DeusOmnis]

I dont live in europe, i dont see why ppl cares about it so much. I think the next time those ppl are born, they should pick a better spot.

[Phil Of Mac]

See, that's why Apple Legal didn't manage to avoid the Apple Corps lawsuit. They were too busy trying to negotiate in Europe!

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

[DeusOmnis]

Originally posted by isgoed
I was hoping for an european launch before windows.

One of the problems might be the pricing of the songs. Since the price of a CD in America, CD's are now three times as expensive than where I live (netherlands). I surely not see songs priced at 0.99€. More likely 1.50€ or even 2.00€ per song.

And are there even plans for iTMS on other continents? Sure they can be a huge market...


Dont those prices have something to do w/ taxes?

[DeusOmnis]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
See, that's why Apple Legal didn't manage to avoid the Apple Corps lawsuit. They were too busy trying to negotiate in Europe!

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

I'm not sure how you "avoid" a lawsuit... to me it seems that as soon as it's filed, you're screwed.

Besides, Apple Computer said they "needed" a court to settle the issue. Perhaps they did try to settle it before that.

[Kalomir]

I dont live in europe, i dont see why ppl cares about it so much. I think the next time those ppl are born, they should pick a better spot.

That's a rule of thumb I decided not to follow... as I am French I've watched Jobs talking in this entertainment show, saying nothing much new actually, yet I confirm that as he was asked if the ITMS was to be expected in France soon, he answered "we'll first make it available to Windows users in the US" or stg like that.

He didn't give any more indication on that issue I think ; and THEN he said ITMS could come to Yurop too (couldn't actually say France) but nevertheless it seemed to be a far perspective. At least six more months, he made some gestures about right owners that differ in US and Yurop,I didn't get it all...

[Wonder Boy]

an october release? sure, along with panther :rolleyes:

[plastree]

There's no reason for Apple to "drag their heels" on this issue. There's a lot of money to be made. I'm sure they would have released ITMS in Europe already if the legal stuff was worked out. Making deals with labels representing all those countries has got to take a lot of time. If anyone's to blame for the delay, I'd bet on the labels.

[Kalomir]

There's a lot of money to be made. I'm sure they would have released ITMS in Europe already if the legal stuff was worked out.

I do agree with you, actually I only was disappointed because this TV show took place on (Messier's late) Universal TV-owned Canal + ; that is to say, I expected Jobs to come there precisely to announce to the general public this legal stuff had been worked out in France, in one of his partner's TV shows.

[Stella]

Thats lame.

manufacturers blame *everything* in Europe being higher priced than the US due to Taxes.

So lame excuse. The fact that when you:

1. Remove the taxes from a product
2. Convert currency to US$

The prices are still higher than the raw US$ speaks


Originally posted by DeusOmnis
Dont those prices have something to do w/ taxes?

<edit to correct crappy grammar!!>

[utkucan]

next year - that's longtins :(

[hvfsl]

I expect it also has something to do with the Beatle's Apple in the UK. Maybe they have an injunktion (i cant spell, sorry) against Apple Computers to stop them releasing anything music related in Europe.

If this is true I think European Mac users should get together and sue the Beatles for stopping us downloading music and using our Macs to their full in the EU.

[Freg3000]

I don't think there is that much money to be made. There is a nice amount, but only a few million However, there is a ton of publicity to be earned; priceless publicity.

[thies]

Pardon me, but why does it take longer to negotiate in europe? Last time I checked the major labels are international entities and there is only a handful of them. With those few agreements have already been reached in the US, if you have an agreement there, you can reach one for the rest of the world at the same time as long as you aren't an inept negotiator.
Conclusion: the delay can not be due to licensing issues but is more likely to blame on Apple.

[arn]

Originally posted by thies
With those few agreements have already been reached in the US, if you have an agreement there, you can reach one for the rest of the world at the same time as long as you aren't an inept negotiator.
Conclusion: the delay can not be due to licensing issues but is more likely to blame on Apple.

This is not true.

http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/05/20030502131829.shtml

"Most tracks have to be cleared by a different licensing authority for each country. "

[deepkid]

Originally posted by thies
Pardon me, but why does it take longer to negotiate in europe? Last time I checked the major labels are international entities and there is only a handful of them. With those few agreements have already been reached in the US, if you have an agreement there, you can reach one for the rest of the world at the same time as long as you aren't an inept negotiator.
Conclusion: the delay can not be due to licensing issues but is more likely to blame on Apple.

Sorry, but that's absolutely wrong. Companies are established according to the laws of the country in question. Moreover, it's about hammering out permission with the entity that has control over the music (Publisher, record label, artist, etc.).

So it's not necessarily about shaking the hand of just the major record label. There are other parties involved.

For example, Sony Music in the UK is a different entity than Sony Music in the US. They are under the same parent company but are independent of one another in many regards.

If I released an album on Sony Music UK and Sony Music US wanted to release it in the states, they'd have to have an agreement/contract between them established before doing so. Factor in that not all artists are published by the record label. They might have an independent publisher and Apple would need to seek their permission, also. It's not automatic.

If it's that bureaucratic between siblings, imagine the kinds of hoops that Apple must be jumping through in order to let you download music from SEVERAL major labels that have a global presence.

It is NOT easy or quick to resolve.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Stella
Thats lame.

manufacturers blame *everything* in Europe being higher priced than the US due to Taxes.

So lame excuse. The fact that when you:

1. Remove the taxes from a product
2. Convert currency to US$

The prices are still higher than the raw US$ speaks

Are you accounting for the corporate income tax, or just the VAT?

[kubrick]

If Microsoft and OD2 can do it, Apple could if they had the will. Which they don't.

In the same way as they can't be bothered to set up iPhoto printing outside the US.

Frankly, there are a lot of VERY loyal Mac users in the UK who are getting pretty t'd off with Apple's "up yours Europe" attitude.

[jayscheuerle]

Perhaps iTMS for Windows has been delayed because of the introduction of the G5 and hoping that the combination of a great machine and access to iTMS would bring over a few more switchers?

Okay, it's a stretch but...:cool:

[deepkid]

Originally posted by kubrick
If Microsoft and OD2 can do it, Apple could if they had the will. Which they don't.

In the same way as they can't be bothered to set up iPhoto printing outside the US.

Frankly, there are a lot of VERY loyal Mac users in the UK who are getting pretty t'd off with Apple's "up yours Europe" attitude.

I think you're taking this too personally, without proper insight. Why in hell would a corporation intentionally piss off customers? They're job is to make as much profit as they can. In Apple's case, they try to offer you stellar products in return.

So, pissing off customers on purpose doesn't make any sense.

No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

Do you have to subscribe? No. You can also use it on more computers than the competition, burn unlimited cds and use it on multiple iPods. Every song is .99

That's STANDARD.

Is that the same with the other services? NO. And that's why those other download services have been able to throw a service together so quickly. They've submitted to the wills of the record labels instead of fighting for the customer, unlike Apple.

So put it in proper pespective --- Apple is working hard to duplicate these freedoms in each territory and are working with a stubborn record industry in doing so.

Now, let's use a personal example to relate. If you worked for a company and demanded a 50% raise, do you expect your request to be approved as quickly as not asking for anything at all?

Apple's demanding the 50% raise whereas these other services are content with nothing more than a cost of living increase, if that.

[kubrick]

Originally posted by deepkid
I think you're taking this too personally, without proper insight.

You obviously don't live in Europe.

Why in hell would a corporation intentionally piss off customers?

Ask Apple - they've been doing it over here for years.

They're job is to make as much profit as they can. In Apple's case, they try to offer you stellar products in return.

They offer *some* stellar products, but not all of them. Like iTMS. Like iPhoto - there are loads of on-line printing facilities that they could piggy-back onto, but they just can't be bothered.

They still expect non-US customers to pay a higher fee for the OS, iLife and .Mac though. Plus a higher initial cost of the hardware (before any taxes).

So, pissing off customers on purpose doesn't make any sense.

Agree with you on that one.

No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.

[Hawthorne]

Originally posted by thies
Pardon me, but why does it take longer to negotiate in europe? Last time I checked the major labels are international entities and there is only a handful of them. With those few agreements have already been reached in the US, if you have an agreement there, you can reach one for the rest of the world at the same time as long as you aren't an inept negotiator.
Conclusion: the delay can not be due to licensing issues but is more likely to blame on Apple.

That's right, because we all know that each record label don't have separate companies with separate licensing requirements in each country. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Ever wonder why import CD's are so rare and costly? Mayhaps it has something to do the licensing / copyright issues that prevents easy importation?

[Hawthorne]

No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.


Try downloading from buymusic.com from outside the U.S. and get back to us, okay?

From their site "Your Digital Download sublicense is nonexclusive, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, limited and for use only within the United States."

Sounds restrictive to me.

[kubrick]

Originally posted by Hawthorne
Try downloading from buymusic.com from outside the U.S. and get back to us, okay?

From their site "Your Digital Download sublicense is nonexclusive, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, limited and for use only within the United States."

Sounds restrictive to me.

Fair enough, but the likes of OD2 are available throughout Europe, which what we are talking about here!

Those of you in the US are already well covered!

:p

[deepkid]

Originally posted by kubrick

You obviously don't live in Europe.


(Why in hell would a corporation intentionally piss off customers?)

Ask Apple - they've been doing it over here for years.

(Their job is to make as much profit as they can. In Apple's case, they try to offer you stellar products in return.)

They offer *some* stellar products, but not all of them. Like iTMS. Like iPhoto - there are loads of on-line printing facilities that they could piggy-back onto, but they just can't be bothered.

They still expect non-US customers to pay a higher fee for the OS, iLife and .Mac though. Plus a higher initial cost of the hardware (before any taxes).

(So, pissing off customers on purpose doesn't make any sense.)

Agree with you on that one.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.



Where I live is beside the point.

What matters is each country's laws and the permissions of the entity that controls the music.

If you insist that Apple is purposely making your life miserable, patronize the company that seems to be your ally. I dont think you'll find sensible offerings by those other download services in comparison, though. If so, list them out.

Perhaps you neglected to comprehend what I typed about Apple asking for more usage liberties for the customer. It's why I used the example of an employee asking for a 50% raise. Apple isn't accepting the weaker terms thrown at the likes of BuyMusic.com, etc.

They're fighting to get the best terms and that doesn't come easily or quickly.

(I won't waste time on the pricing for products that Apple sells internationally, as that's been beaten to death already.)

By the way, I've spent a considerable amount of time in Europe and that's why I DO understand why this isn't as easy as you think it is.

Try getting a work visa in the UK as a foreigner.

[BobbyBox]

Unlike North America, Europe has different royalty collection agencies for each country. For example in the UK alone you have the MCPS (Mechanical Copyright Protection Society) and PRS (Performing Rights Society) to mention just two......infact if you go to the BIEM site (which represents 41 collection agencies) www.biem.org you'll see the extent of the problem.....each agency has to be negotiated with individually then add into the mix the fact that you need to filter out artists/tracks that nay particular label does not want sold on-line (could be just contracual) then multiply this by the no of territories you wish to deal in and it becomes very complex.....

Also it's important to consider that Apple do not want to upset the applecart (pun intended) by soiling the success of the NA operation with any less sucessfull sibling....so they have to have everything in place.


OD2 is interesting on a couple of fronts...not least of which is the fact that Peter Gabriel is behind them....

secondlt the licencing is different which may have given them an advantage in negotiating...Also OD2 have a fairly large collection of the "Big 5" catalogue anyway due to the other work they do for them....

I'd suggest waiting until the Wintel version of iTunes is released before moving ito europe then the market will be big enough.


Just my tuppeneth........My first post too!! :-)

[kubrick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by deepkid

If you insist that Apple is purposely making your life miserable, patronize the company that seems to be your ally.

That's taking things a bit far - there is more to life than a $0.99 song and no one in their right mind could ever argue that Apple or any other similar company is deliberately setting out to make their life miserable. The alternative OS provider is, or course, too horrific to consider. and I'm not talking Linux here ;)

They're fighting to get the best terms and that doesn't come easily or quickly.

Experience in Europe would suggest that it doesn't come at all. How long has the US had iPhoto printing? Two years? How many photo printing services are available in the UK? Dozens. Go figure, as you say over there.

Jobs has just been interviewed by the BBC and when asked a direct question about iTMS availability in Europe, he stated "probably next year". I'm not holding my breath, because that was the timeframe given for European iPhoto printing when THAT was launched in the US in 2001. Experience counts for a great deal and experience says that Apple UK for one seem to sit around on their thumbs all day, not doing very much.

Try getting a work visa in the UK as a foreigner.

LOL! Green card anyone?

[Stike]

Originally posted by DeusOmnis
I dont live in europe, i dont see why ppl cares about it so much. I think the next time those ppl are born, they should pick a better spot.

Away with you, stinking troll!

[edStar]

Originally posted by Stella
Obviously Apple haven't tried hard enough to get it released this year.

I'm sure if they tried hard enough, they would have got it out for some countries.

But no.... dragging their heels.

I would be surprised to ever see an international iTunes.

I'd be very surprised to see an Australian version. Sorry, I just don't see it: looking at recent reports to how Apple treat that part of the world - they can bearly get their products over there.

I think it has more to do with legal stuff, then a hold up on software development. Sorting out copyright, royalty pay-outs and all of that is no small task.

But I can understand why people are upset. Being a smaller market to the US we often play second fiddle to some of the features, US mac users take for granted. In fact, some of you Europeans sound quite bitter :)

[kubrick]

Originally posted by edStar
In fact, some of you Europeans sound quite bitter :)
:D

[plastree]

Apple is a U.S. company. We here in the U.S. get to wait 2 years longer than the Japanese for the latest personal electronics products from companies like Sony. It's the same sitch with Apple's international deals.

[Stella]

I wouldn't call Europe that much a smaller market than the US...

Apple, ignore europe at your peril!

Other music services will grab the foothold long before Apple, probably at a cheaper price too!

68p in the UK to download a song, I would be really surprised if Apple could match it.

Originally posted by edStar

But I can understand why people are upset. Being a smaller market to the US we often play second fiddle to some of the features, US mac users take for granted. In fact, some of you Europeans sound quite bitter :)

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by kubrick

No one else's download service is as liberal as Apple's. No one else's DRMs are as customer-friendly as Apple's.

No one elses is restricted to one country either.

Um, actually, quite wrong. In fact, the majority of download services out there are single-country or at most handful-of-countries.

Yes, even that MS/ODI one (Spain and one other European country last I heard).

Like it or not, it is difficult to negotiate a standard contract with literally thousands of entities in dozens of municipalities and under dozens of legal frameworks at once. As far as I can tell, Apple is hoping to launch iTMS Europe as a single entity, not as "iTMS France" + "iTMS Spain" + "iTMS Vatican City", etc.

No one has done it yet. Apple is apparently trying to. Quit yer huffing and puffing, and get a US-based credit card if you must.

[JayBee]

Originally posted by jettredmont get a US-based credit card if you must. [/B]

eh?

[Poff]

Originally posted by jettredmont
and get a US-based credit card if you must.

How?

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Poff
How?

Move to the US!

Seriously. And get citizenship too, we need as many people to vote for Dean as possible...

[Poff]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Move to the US!

Seriously. And get citizenship too, we need as many people to vote for Dean as possible...

Gah! I´d rather stay here in Norway and wait a little longer for the music store..

Just wish it will come to Norway soon.

[panphage]

Originally posted by Stella
I wouldn't call Europe that much a smaller market than the US...

Apple, ignore europe at your peril!

Other music services will grab the foothold long before Apple, probably at a cheaper price too!

68p in the UK to download a song, I would be really surprised if Apple could match it.

edstar was talking about his/her own situation, meaning Australia. Brisbane, edstar's location, is in Australia, a much smaller market than the US.

"Being a smaller market to the US we often play second fiddle" -edstar, emphasis mine. The "we" there is Australia.

[tizza]

Well if Europe isn't getting iTMS for a long time, I think it's goign to be even longer for Australia :(

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by Macrumors
A Reuters article (http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/0309a16/tech_apple_1.html) reports on Apple Expo Paris, but provides some new information on Apple's plans for the iTunes Music Store.

When questioned about the launch of the iTunes Music Store for Europe, Jobs replied "We're clearly working on it (but) I think we'll do it next year". Distribution rights are cited as the reason for the delay.

Jobs did reiterate that iTunes for Windows would be coming this year and claimed "We're very much on track to execute iTunes for Windows".

Meanwhile, the most recent rumors (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030915125333.shtml) have pointed towards an October release for iTunes for Windows.

I hate to say it but the news of October 03 iTunes Windows release and associated Windows shopping for music, is far bigger news than even the very cool PB15 news.

This will generate revenues even larger than the already successful Apple iTunes music service, and what's interesting is it drives hardware sales of iPods which are high margin items, and even though it doesn't sell software, it actually does something better than that. It sells a virtual product with very low delivery cost with near real time revenue recognition and high margins.

And does so while solving a harsh societal problem: rampant music piracy.

I hope to see G5 X-serve's soon and of course G5 Powerbooks come January. But this news about iTunes is monumental for Apple. It could be one of the few things in the past 5 years that could actually hit the stock price. And that is objective evidence of truly big news if it happens.

Rocketman


http://www.v-serv.com/-upload/avatar2.jpg

[Genie]

All these licensing problems - artists need to own all the rights for their music and lyrics and masters. That's the way of the future for me.

Computers let you do that.
Me with my new G5.
http://www.geniesongs.com/genie/endorsements/apple/Genie-G5Computer50pix.jpg (http://www.geniesongs.com/genie/endorsements/apple/appleG5.html)

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by Stella
Thats lame.

manufacturers blame *everything* in Europe being higher priced than the US due to Taxes.

So lame excuse. The fact that when you:

1. Remove the taxes from a product
2. Convert currency to US$

The prices are still higher than the raw US$ speaks




<edit to correct crappy grammar!!>

You're not alone. You can do the same thing with Japanese-built goods sold in the US. Many will be priced much higher.

[orangedv]

Ok, reading this several things seem clear to me.

iTunes in Europe is very complex to get into action.... BUT...... Apple do not deal with Europe as a single entity, they deal with it country by country, so I cannot see what they are playing at here; maybe they are going to turn Europe into a single market starting with iTunes?.... The arguments about complexity stalling it are valid, but how do you US Mac owners account for Canada? Your argument falls flat. It must be frustrating in the extreme to live just over the border and own a Mac......

The real villain in this story is of course the record labels and their bratty artists. I am a big believer in survival of the fittest, not the biggest. They either simplify the copyright issue and get on line or see their products pirated to death. Every day without music download in Europe or Canada or Australia is another day with those countries peoples downloading those elusive 200,000 songs via peer to peer. The big dinosaurs of the recording industry may go to the wall if they don’t sober up fast enough...
A further point; It is ironic in the extreme that Apple Corp are suing Apple Computers in the British High Court when iTunes music downloading doesn't even work in the UK.

Apple, like Ford and Coca Cola are a global company, even if they started in the US. Can you lucky Americans please take onboard that Apples attempts to become a more software orientated brand look very weak outside your shores? They come up with lovely software, then tie it into an online option that simply doesn't work properly or at all outside the US. (But rather annoyingly the cute icons to launch it are still there under our noses). It is a weakness they should address, but have no inclination to do so. Hence Europeans feeling pissed off. It is more than easy to piss someone off without doing it intentionally. I have no figures but I would be amazed to discover that there are more Macs in the USA than outside it. They need to get more organised with what I suspect is the larger share of their market.

[singletrack]

To add to the alleged anti-European Apple stance...

In Europe...

.Mac - costs more, offers less

Sherlock - Doesn't do anything in Europe.

iTunes - There are plenty of European sites offering the same service as iTMS and to be honest, http://www.emusic.com 's subscription service works out cheaper and has a wider selection of european music than iTMS. Microsoft have fired their salvo in Europe, knowing that if they get a foothold here, iTunes for Windows in Europe is dead in the water. That's sad.

iPhoto - still no photo printing service. It takes 30 minutes to add one as I coded one into a piece of php gallery software I have. Sure, you'd have to offer a wide selection of services perhaps but IMHO, Apple is dragging it's heels.

Macs also cost more even before taxes than in the USA.

Excuse us 'old world' people for being pissed off again with apparent US arrogance.

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by singletrack
Macs also cost more even before taxes than in the USA.


It's called import taxes and shipping fees. Any time a company is manufacturing products in one country and shipping them to another country said products are going to be far cheaper in the country of origin.

You don't hear us Americans complaining about the fact that the VW Beetle to go with our iPods costs more than just the Euro/US$ conversion ratio can justify, right?


Excuse us 'old world' people for being pissed off again with apparent US arrogance.

It really has nothing to do with arrogance. Apple would love to sell its products worldwide. However, the real world isn't based on universal free trade and, frankly, Apple isn't a big enough company to make significant business ventures world-wide without greatly increasing the risk to which it is exposing itself. Moreover, the Apple brand, being far stronger in the US, makes business deals far easier for Apple states-side.

In other words, Apple isn't "arrogant"; it is realistic.

[kubrick]

Originally posted by jettredmont
You don't hear us Americans complaining about the fact that the VW Beetle to go with our iPods costs more than just the Euro/US$ conversion ratio can justify, right?

Odd that, seeing as how Beetles are built in the States! Sounds like VW are making a decent profit from a desirable car, to me. Much like the new Mini over here in the UK.

[singletrack]

Originally posted by jettredmont
It's called import taxes and shipping fees. Any time a company is manufacturing products in one country and shipping them to another country said products are going to be far cheaper in the country of origin.

But they are made in Taiwan IIRC. It's no cheaper to ship here from there than to the US. It's cheaper in usually.

If they are shipping from Taiwan to the US and then back to Europe, they want their heads seeing to.

You don't hear us Americans complaining about the fact that the VW Beetle to go with our iPods costs more than just the Euro/US$ conversion ratio can justify, right?

That's because it's cheaper in the US than in Europe. Your cheapest model is the 2.0L (we have more environmentally friendly 1.4, 1.6 etc).

US price - $15,950
UK price - £14,065

UK/USD rate was about .625 dollars to the pound so your Beetle is £9968. Even if ours includes tax (17.5%) it's still way cheaper in the USA.



It really has nothing to do with arrogance. Apple would love to sell its products worldwide. However, the real world isn't based on universal free trade and, frankly, Apple isn't a big enough company to make significant business ventures world-wide without greatly increasing the risk to which it is exposing itself. Moreover, the Apple brand, being far stronger in the US, makes business deals far easier for Apple states-side.

And they aren't going to be a world player unless they support their foreign markets and adding US only features doesn't help foster global harmony.

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by singletrack
But they are made in Taiwan IIRC. It's no cheaper to ship here from there than to the US. It's cheaper in usually.

If they are shipping from Taiwan to the US and then back to Europe, they want their heads seeing to.

Can we just emphasise this point as it's obviously missed a lot of American mac users attention - even though it's been done to death.

IBOOKS AND POWERBOOKS ARE MADE IN TAIWAN NOT THE USA

POWERMACS FOR EUROPE ARE MADE IN EUROPE (IRELAND)

So they are not imported from the USA. Import duty is about 2% anyway. There is no reason for them to be more expensive except Apple wants to charge more. I don't blame them as nearly everyone else sees Europe as a cash-cow...ask Canon.:(

As the UK isn't Eurozone and has 60 million people can we get to be a trial run for iTunes Europe???;)

[billyboy]

I am sure I paid £67 for mac.com, which I am also sure is pretty close to $99. so no gripes there about US customers' preferential treatment. I wish my UK purchased PB had been priced in dollars though, especially if it did come from Ireland and had not incurred huge transport costs and duties as if it had been imported from across the Atlantic.

Interesting how iTunes Europe is going to finally one day hopefully be born, and probably be more integrated than the whole European Union thing. I hope Apple dont punish the uk though for keeping out of the EURO by not involving them in iTunes.:o

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
As the UK isn't Eurozone and has 60 million people can we get to be a trial run for iTunes Europe???;)

I suspect the UK will get their own iTMS, if for no other reason than the fact they have their own currency.

[ph_555_shag]

im in AUS and im not so pissed off at the fact its taking a long time IM PISSED OFF that people who use windoze computers will get it before me..... over here whey trying to explain why u would pay twice as muce for a comp with SIMILAR specs...it is a lot harder...no iPhoto printing...and everything else already coverd...IT just ****s me taht windoze peopel will get iTunes music store before peoplethe people who actuly make apple their profits... THE PEOPLE WHO BUY THEIR HARDWARE......ok my rant is now finished

[Poff]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I suspect the UK will get their own iTMS, if for no other reason than the fact they have their own currency.

Several contries in Europe has their own currency..

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Poff
Several contries in Europe has their own currency..

Yes, but by "Europe", I'm assuming they mean "Western Europe". Other than former Communist countries, we have the UK, Switzerland, and Sweden with their own currencies. The UK is probably the biggest of these markets, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Switzerland and perhaps Sweden with stores of their own. In the meantime, the EU gets a single store that sells in Euros.

[Poff]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Yes, but by "Europe", I'm assuming they mean "Western Europe". Other than former Communist countries, we have the UK, Switzerland, and Sweden with their own currencies. The UK is probably the biggest of these markets, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Switzerland and perhaps Sweden with stores of their own. In the meantime, the EU gets a single store that sells in Euros.

...and Norway.. Not even a member of EU - hope it´s gonna last a long time... I do not like EU..

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Poff
...and Norway.. Not even a member of EU - hope it´s gonna last a long time... I do not like EU..

I didn't know that. Interesting. Not to turn this into a political debate, but good luck keeping your sovereignty, and good luck getting your own iTMS!

[Poff]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I didn't know that. Interesting. Not to turn this into a political debate, but good luck keeping your sovereignty, and good luck getting your own iTMS!

:D thanks! :D