Everywhere Internet Audio and Wireless Apple iPod?

[MacRumors]

Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/sep2003/tc20030924_0544_tc056.htm) has an interesting article about an emerging concept called Everywhere Internet Audio (EIA):


Imagine, if you will, an iPod as a wireless digital ladle. It would dip into a nearly bottomless stream of continual music, scooping up any song you wanted, when you wanted, where you wanted.


The author speculates that Apple would be a prime candidate to deploy this sort of technology, but also claims that it is an "ill-kept secret that Apple is trying to figure out how to add wireless Internet connectivity to the iPod."

[ashish100]

wouldnt that be wicked?
how would you fit a airport card in there tho?

[Freg3000]

Seems to me that being the first, smallest, and best all at once is not a possibility. In order to add wireless connectivity to the iPod, it will need to become a bit larger. So then the iPod would not be as small. That is, unless they wait until others try and fail, and then they wouldn't be first. Either of these two would might jeopardize the iPod being the best MP3 player out there.

Then again, this is Apple. If anyone can do it, Apple can. :D

But if they can't...don't try.

[kainjow]

Just imagine:

You're on your iPod...you select Browse and then can choose Local or Music Store. Selecting Music Store, you can then browse the iTunes Music Store on your iPod and Preview each song, lookup info about album, artist, etc. Then you can Buy it directly from your iPod.

Your account would be setup through iTunes on your computer so you're automatically logged on with your iPod.

So basically get music wherever you are. Why be stuck to your computer to buy music?

This is what I would want.

[sososowhat]

:cool:I've often talked about this sort of thing with friends.

What one really wants isn't "bits on disk". One wants any music, anywhere, any time.

Essentially, it's on-demand radio. You can listen to anything on demand.


The iPod itself would be used not only as a place to plug your headphones, but to store playlists (of music you don't keep on it) and as a general communications device.

Ultimately, this goes beyond music, to video (a sort of portable tivo) and other sorts of information-on-demand.

[xDANx]

Originally posted by kainjow
Just imagine:

You're on your iPod...you select Browse and then can choose Local or Music Store. Selecting Music Store, you can then browse the iTunes Music Store on your iPod and Preview each song, lookup info about album, artist, etc. Then you can Buy it directly from your iPod.

Your account would be setup through iTunes on your computer so you're automatically logged on with your iPod.

So basically get music wherever you are. Why be stuck to your computer to buy music?

This is what I would want.

you're forgetting that you can't copy music from an ipod to a computer (unless you're using firewire target disk mode, but then you can't listen to anything)...so songs bought and downloaded directly to the ipod would be stuck there...you'd lose everything if you did so much as update the ipod software.

[Chealion]

Isn't it possible, it could be set up on say a subscription type basis? It would be your radio station on your special new iPod, as you pay say $10/month to get any music you want that will stream onto your iPod, and since the music is only streamed on the iPod, for the whor errr RIAA, there is no chance for the average consumer to be copying songs and redistributing them. It would be cool, but I really doubt it would fly, as in many places, there just aren't enough WAPs available. Or will it go together with 802.16a? A 30 mile range could make this work quite well.

[Jerry Spoon]

What if instead of a subscription to a service, it could access your music off of your computer at home and stream it to you. This is possible now from computer to computer. It would be cool to do it from computer to iPod. Cooler if you could also access ITMS (through your computer? That would probably lag a lot) and get music that way too.

Can you tell I really don't like the idea of a subscription service?

[iPC]

Originally posted by Freg3000
Seems to me that being the first, smallest, and best all at once is not a possibility. In order to add wireless connectivity to the iPod, it will need to become a bit larger. So then the iPod would not be as small. That is, unless they wait until others try and fail, and then they wouldn't be first. Either of these two would might jeopardize the iPod being the best MP3 player out there.

Then again, this is Apple. If anyone can do it, Apple can. :D

But if they can't...don't try.
This is no different from when the iPod was released. It was not first, it did not have the most storage, and it is not smallest of the portable mp3 players (solid state are much smaller). What the iPod was, and still is, better. Smaller hdd, firewire connectivity, and a slick interface. This is no longer unique, but at the time it was, and allowed Apple to muscle into a huge share of a burgeoning niche.

Today, wireless is a issue. Once 802.11g on a chip is done smaller, with less power needed, the iPod will have some sort of built in antenna (probably surrounding perimeter of the frame) connected to all in one 802.11g chip. Bluetooth is to slow, with a very limited range. Capability to update the database while playing songs would be nice...

This iPod as a ladle thing will not work until there is a continuous wireless network throughout the US (and elsewhere of course) that is reliable, and fast. I am thinking something like 4G (my guess for a name of what is to replace the 3G network that is just now getting to the US, and already showing its limitations in places like Japan). It is a moot point until there is a network in place that can handle the bandwidth required, as well as the necessary coverage (worldwide would be best).

This all sounds more and more like a Star Trek type thing... I love it! Next thing you know there might be rumblings about a true world government.

[moosecat]

Originally posted by Macrumors
The author ... claims that it is an "ill-kept secret that Apple is trying to figure out how to add wireless Internet connectivity to the iPod."

Dang, they kept it a secret from me. Maybe I've missed some items here or there, but I didn't know that it was so clear that Apple was trying to do that.

[Sonofhaig]

Isn't this all based off an article from MacCentral?
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/09/24/haddad/

Personally, I'd rather own my music than rent it for a short time.
Maybe I have this story all twisted around.

[kcmac]

Same article.

[luiss]

Originally posted by ashish100
...how would you fit a airport card in there tho?
They already have Compact Flash (http://www.sandisk.com/consumer/connectplus_wifi.asp) and SD Wi-Fi (http://www.sandisk.com/consumer/sdwifi.asp) cards. So I'm sure they can get the electronics in there. I would be more worried about the battery life?

[greenstork]

Really, that last thing I want is to pay a subscription or even per song fee so that I can rent music. I just think the whole system is useless if you can't own the music. Now if I could sample the song for $0.05 and buy it for $0.99, then they might be on to something. I'd pay a nickel or $0.20 an album to check it out and see if I like it before purchasing but never being able to own the music is a super lame idea that will never fly.

Call me crazy, but the music companies could really avoid piracy if they just started pricing their CD's lower. They don't need to make 1000% profit or whatever they earn. A $6-10 CD would eliminate a lot of pirating and probably sell a lot more music. That's my wacky idea.

[Sonofhaig]

Originally posted by kcmac
Same article.

Yes. I don't like the idea though. I want to "own" and keep what I download.
Not just have it until expiration date. The entertainment world wants to do this with DVD too. It'll never fly.......

[jessefoxperry]

Originally posted by xDANx
you're forgetting that you can't copy music from an ipod to a computer (unless you're using firewire target disk mode, but then you can't listen to anything)...so songs bought and downloaded directly to the ipod would be stuck there...you'd lose everything if you did so much as update the ipod software.

I'd imagine if they came out with the technology of being able to download songs from iMS straight to your ipod, there would be a way you could get them back on your mac. Like just the songs you've downloaded to your ipod can be brought back and forth between your mac and ipod, but the others stay on your ipod to prevent piracy.

[lmalave]

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
Yes. I don't like the idea though. I want to "own" and keep what I download.
Not just have it until expiration date. The entertainment world wants to do this with DVD too. It'll never fly.......

I think there's a huge market for it. It's just another way to listen to music. If you want to buy music and own it, then go ahead. Think about all the different ways we can consume movies now, for example:

- Watch it in the theater
- Buy the DVD
- Watch it on cable via video-on-demand
- Watch it on cable via a movie channel like HBO or Showtime

All this article's proposed product would do is add a model for music similar to the video-on-demand model that already exists in a lot of cable markets (NYC included). That doesn't mean that I still can't go out and buy a movie if I want to own it.

[ELYXR]

Would they call it WiPod?

[sparky76]

Don't get too hung up about not being able to transfer files from ipod to computer - that was put in place to keep the music companies on board. If this takes off like the itms has, apple can effectively dictate terms - either allow over-the-air sales with rights to copy back to mac, or face the piracy consequences.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by jessefoxperry
I'd imagine if they came out with the technology of being able to download songs from iMS straight to your ipod, there would be a way you could get them back on your mac. Like just the songs you've downloaded to your ipod can be brought back and forth between your mac and ipod, but the others stay on your ipod to prevent piracy.

This is actually not that hard.

As others have already noted, iTunes at one point could stream music over the entire internet. (Now it's only possible over a local network.) So, in theory, as long as there is a reliable wireless connection, a wi-fi equiped iPod (or any portable device for that matter) could play the music stored on your computer. With this method, you wouldn't even need a hard-drive. The only real technical difficulties I see are:

1. A reliable high-bandwidth wi-fi network, which is probably years and years away.

2. Making sure only the authorized iPod can access the tunes stored on your home base computer.

The issue of putting in a wireless capability into a player isn't a big deal, in my opinion. Since everything would be streamed, you wouldn't need a storage mechanism.

I don't think the article's author has a clue about Apple's plans. As far as I know, there hasn't been any serious rumors about a wireless ipod. It's just a fantasy a lot of people have.

[Snowy_River]

While I know this is only my opinion, and it doesn't necessarily invalidate the idea, I know that I wouldn't want to use this service. Two reasons:

First, if the iPod were to become a WiFi subscription device, rather than a MP3/AAC storage device, then I couldn't listen to some of the more exotic music in my own collection (as most of it doesn't exist through the iTMS).

Second, again, if the iPod weren't a storage device, then I'd be limited to using it where there was service, and one of my primary uses of my iPod is for traveling tunes, whether I'm driving down the freeway, or hiking deep into the mountains.

[MrMacMan]

Would bluetooth work you is Airport the only way?

Wouldn't that drain Battery?


:o


I guess default it is off and then you would need to flip it on or something?

:confused:

[MacRETARD]

Remember a while back rumors were going around about wireless on the ipod. The rumor (as I remember) was to have bluetooth on the ipod and use rendezvous to detect local ipods and be able to share playlists of people close to you.

Seems like a cool feature, but how much would it really be used? Blue tooth uses a lot less power and uses a smaller chip so it could probably go into the ipod now without making it bigger.

In order to use 802.11x they would have to increase the size quite a bit and to use cell phone technology (cdpd, gprs, etc..)they would have to charge a monthly fee to access the carrier network so I dont see either of these happening any time soon.

[SiliconAddict]

You heard it here first! ;) Or maybe you didn't. :p

Previous Macrumors thread: New iPod Peripherals? (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36006&perpage=25&highlight=wireless&pagenumber=3)

That's an idea. How about direct access to the iTunes store via a WIFI/CDMA/GSM connection. No fancy graphics. Just text based. Browse and download on the go. The software for such a device could easily reside in the ROM of the addon. (Similar to how the phone sleeve for the Compaq iPaq worked.)

Crazy idea? Yep. Still would be kinda cool.

Its still crazy but do-able. I'm wondering if Apple could negotiate some cut rate deals with ATT, Sprint, Verizion, etc that would allow a cheap per MB plan for the above idea? So instead of spending $49.95 per month you spend only the MB you buy. That type of plan is available right now but its spendy but with Apple negotiating the deal well look at the ITMS. No one ever thought the RIAA would ever give into such a thing. Who knows.

[skymaXimus]

Originally posted by Jerry Spoon
What if instead of a subscription to a service, it could access your music off of your computer at home and stream it to you. This is possible now from computer to computer. It would be cool to do it from computer to iPod. Cooler if you could also access ITMS (through your computer? That would probably lag a lot) and get music that way too.

Can you tell I really don't like the idea of a subscription service?
Umm ... hello? that is what the iPod already does, only via firewire and not web streaming. Why add another whole layer of complexity that will eventually fall short? I must be misinterpreting your post.

[wms121]

Some of the newer ultrabroadband technology permits huge bandwidth over the air.

Combine that with custom "2000 line" video eyewear/glasses and you could do music videos, full cinema and teevee. One price.

Yahoo has something like this now. The danger is not whether or not 'Apple' will market something, the danger is your local television broadcaster in a small market may go bankrupt if it still uses 'network feeds' over the next several years and does not change its game plan.

One reason Michael Powell is in so much trouble at the FCC is that he defends the old system we have had since the fifties, when you had a small screen and could watch wrestling until 12 midnight.

hmm..

That sounds like now .....hang in there Mr. Mike.

<--wants to watch channeled subspace radio from the Pleiades.

( http://www.billymeier.com <--really 1000 channels from outer
space? )

[NavyIntel007]

How about....

Built-in Mobile XM radio for US markets.
$10/month, 100 stations, no commercials. Only problem would be the antenna.

I think there's a digital radio service in Britain and I'm not sure about Asia and the rest of Europe.

And if only they could double the capacity of bluetooth then we could talk about some bluetooth headphones.

[VIREBEL661]

This would be a foward thinking and plausible solution for the whole RIAA bs... I mean, if you could stream anything, with a small subscrition fee (like XM), why pirate? A new way for the record industry to make money. Then again, they've been extremely greedy for a long time, with little regard to the quality of artists they seem to adopt (which can be used for tax write-offs)....

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by greenstork
Call me crazy, but the music companies could really avoid piracy if they just started pricing their CD's lower. They don't need to make 1000% profit or whatever they earn. A $6-10 CD would eliminate a lot of pirating and probably sell a lot more music. That's my wacky idea.

I totally agree - and even at $5, they're still making an exponential profit. Some artists only get PENNIES on cd sales (make most of their money touring, but they also have to pay for expenses out of their pocket, and hope to make a profit)... We all know how cheap it is to manufacture the product. The rest is based on the absolute greed of the record label - it's totally ridiculous..

[Steven1621]

ipod battery life is sketchy as it is. now think of what it will do with wi fi....

[tizza]

Originally posted by kainjow
Just imagine:

You're on your iPod...you select Browse and then can choose Local or Music Store. Selecting Music Store, you can then browse the iTunes Music Store on your iPod and Preview each song, lookup info about album, artist, etc. Then you can Buy it directly from your iPod.

Your account would be setup through iTunes on your computer so you're automatically logged on with your iPod.

So basically get music wherever you are. Why be stuck to your computer to buy music?

This is what I would want.

Grrrr forget iTMS in my iPod - I want to be able to buy in my country!!!!:(

[hobbes3113]

Wireless ipod?? Sign me up! The one thing that drives me crazy about mobile audio is the cord that has to be attached to your earphones. I can live without my ipod being able to connect to the net...

[Macco]

Originally posted by Macrumors

The author speculates that Apple would be a prime candidate to deploy this sort of technology, but also claims that it is an "ill-kept secret that Apple is trying to figure out how to add wireless Internet connectivity to the iPod."
Right. "Ill-kept secret." Which is why all of the rumor sites have been talking about it.
Not.
I mean please. In the Mac community, even if there's just the slightest whisper of something going on, all of the rumor sites post it in a matter of hours. Not BusinessWeek.

[topicolo]

Doesn't having a bottomless well of music provided by wifi completely defeat the purpose of the iPod? I mean, the iPod's main attraction is its ability to store so much music in such a small package, but if you add wifi, there wouldn't be as good a reason to buy the 40gig version as opposed to a smaller 15gig version. Heck, you can probably get by with a 1gig version and stream most of your music off of your computer.

[ibookin']

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
How about....

Built-in Mobile XM radio for US markets.
$10/month, 100 stations, no commercials. Only problem would be the antenna.

I think there's a digital radio service in Britain and I'm not sure about Asia and the rest of Europe.

And if only they could double the capacity of bluetooth then we could talk about some bluetooth headphones.

Only problem is the antenna necessary for XM make the iPod quite a bit larger.

[Sherman]

If you read through the techno-babble, you'll see there might be prior art to this. Namely, THE RADIO. iPod/FM anyone?

[Genie]

Interesting idea... if they don't foul it up with drm...

[bretm]

Originally posted by skymaXimus
Umm ... hello? that is what the iPod already does, only via firewire and not web streaming. Why add another whole layer of complexity that will eventually fall short? I must be misinterpreting your post.

Wireless connection to internet.
iPod only sees personal computer at home (via wireless internet connection)
iPod no longer needs disk drive
iPod can purchase music off iTunes - music would be stored on home computer

I agree, too much. But it would be a driveless, internet itunes capable ipod. However it relies too heavily on your home computer remaining on and connected to the internet.

[alphaq619]

I read that article and thought it was a load of crap. So much so that I emailed him my thoughts about the article.

"You are on crack. So what is the whole point of the iTunes Music Store? Did Apple waste its time developing it? Waste its time courting the big 5 music labels? Waste its time and money for the infrastructure of the store just to stream everything wirelessly? Wireless internet (in terms of wide range internet) is still a long way off. Sure subscription works with cable TV but people want to own their music. No one rents CDs from Blockbuster just to have them returned in 5 days.

"There would be no need for CDs, hard drives, or any other storage device. And trying to capture such music would be about as easy as trapping mist in a jar. Every song would contain a digital expiration date, so, over time, they would evaporate. "

That was the whole point of the iTMS. The beauty of a la carte downloading. The other guys run on a subscription based model. No one wants to rent music.

That article is full of wild speculation. I don't remember hearing or reading about Apple wanting to provide wireless connectivity to their iPod. The biggest viable rumor with the iPod is that there are talks about hooking up the company's iSight to it to create a hard drive based video camera. Write a story on that.

http://www.sidewalkmuse.net/archives/000004.html
http://forums.macrumors.com/archive/topic/33976-1.html

Of course, you could just be blowing stuff out of your rear end just to have something to turn in to your boss and to create a buzz within the Mac community. Just like when some other journalist with nothing else to write about writes on how Apple is porting OS X to run on Intel processors or how Apple is switching to use Intel instead of Motorola/IBM processors. Which will never happen. Think of something valid next time you write an article."

Even if it's a remote possiblity, I think it's a long way off. But if I'm wrong, sue me.

[ryan]

Originally posted by NavyIntel007
How about....

Built-in Mobile XM radio for US markets.
$10/month, 100 stations, no commercials. Only problem would be the antenna.

I think there's a digital radio service in Britain and I'm not sure about Asia and the rest of Europe.

And if only they could double the capacity of bluetooth then we could talk about some bluetooth headphones. The whole XM idea is what I first thought of too when I saw this article (surprising no one mentioned it until page 2). The thing with XM is that it’s just a clearer sounding, no commercial radio system, so while it would nice to be able to tune to various stations, the real power would be in allowing people to chose what specific song(s) they want to listen to. Kind of like the promise of on-demand movies and/or tv shows.

[contempt]

Instead of Wi-Fi, couldn't they just easily embed an FM tuner and a XM Satellite tuner? That could be an interesting cross promotion. Great for the XM companies. Then maybe, you could customize your own XM station and listen to that. Wow. And that XM channel would be linked to your iTunes IP address and you can share music through a playlist. How cool would that be? Now I'm dreaming.

[aromedia]

I might sounds like a downer but the concept looks pretty much like digital radio. This technology is at our doors and will passed through smartphones.

[pjkelnhofer]

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
Yes. I don't like the idea though. I want to "own" and keep what I download.
Not just have it until expiration date. The entertainment world wants to do this with DVD too. It'll never fly.......

It seems to me it would be very easy to store the music. Just go from the headphone jack to the audio in on anything and all of a sudden you have a copy of the song!
I know there would be some quality loss compare to a true download, but I remember being a poor kid and having most of my music collection from taping songs off the radio.
What is slightly lower quality when you are getting it for free?