Apple Unable to bundle Bluetooth Accessories

[MacRumors]

MacSlash posts (http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/24/0945221&mode=thread) a report which explains why Apple Wireless Mouse and Keyboard are not presently a build-to-order option at the Apple Online Store.

Based on comments from an Apple representative, Bluetooth Devices need to be configured before their use. If they were to ship new Macs with only Wireless accessories, new users would have no functional keyboard and mouse in order to setup their systems.

Reportedly they are working on work-arounds.

[Balin64]

But, they should offer the BTO option anyway to a user that already owns an Apple USB keyboard.

[Over Achiever]

That makes sense. :)

It's like the parody...

"Unable to detect keyboard. Please press F1 to continue..."

Or something like that. :D

-O.A.

[DanUk2003]

Well i'm not going to buy one.

Apple (Mr. Jobs in particular) are stupid for not making their mice 2 button - or at the VERY LEAST have some sort of extra functionality - scrolling for example?!

Bad move apple - i'm buying Logitech!

:mad:

[Freg3000]

Makes sense. This would make even BTO wireless products unusable. They could put a warning when you are ordering that you need to have a functioning keyboard and mouse (not the Apple peripherals) in order to configure your new wireless ones.

Better make it a BIG warning. :p

[Abstract]

Now THAT is thinking ahead. :)

[Poff]

It´s sort of stoopid. But for them to configure the system to use your bluetooth mouse, you would pay the same as you pay to get the ordinary keyboard in addition.. :/

[davidc2182]

and its a great one!!! Make the darn things rechargeable with a usb cable, and then like magic you wont have to worry about this problem, or if Apple would include touch screens, which may seem useless, but I have one and its such a lifesaver if the mouse is acting up and actually has become a natural interface of just pushing a button on screen on my laptop rather then getting the mouse moving, and no I do not have one of those fancy tablet pee cees I have the original tablet pee cee, the ibm transnote =)

[Poff]

Originally posted by davidc2182
and its a great one!!! Make the darn things rechargeable with a usb cable, and then like magic you wont have to worry about this problem

that would actually be a very clever thing to do..

[frozenstar]

I think they need to focus on getting the mice to work properly before they can even think about BTO options.
My Apple wireless mouse constantly loses connectivity. In addition, the scan resolution is low, and the response time is poor. This is probably the worst mouse I've ever owned.

[coolfactor]

Originally posted by DanUk2003
Well i'm not going to buy one.

Apple (Mr. Jobs in particular) are stupid for not making their mice 2 button - or at the VERY LEAST have some sort of extra functionality - scrolling for example?!

Bad move apple - i'm buying Logitech!

:mad:

Hey Dan,

Relax! Venting isn't going to get us anywhere. We all want to see an Apple mouse with a scrollwheel (scrollpad anyone?). Multi-buttons isn't on the top of my list since I prefer to use both hands when using my computer, and control-clicking works great. (what are you doing with your other hand, btw?)

Now, if you were talking about a "Pro" Apple mouse, then I'd expect two buttons and a scrollwheel, but we're not. We're talking about a consumer-level mouse that nicely showcases the simplicity of Apple products, and a one-button no-frills mouse does that just great! The second button isn't needed on a Mac, but IS needed on a PC. Enjoy your Logitech.

[Sorry for swaying from the subject, but these negative off-topic posts are non-sense.]

[ouketii]

thats crazy... kindof like when i had to use a ps2 mouse to install the usb one on my pc.. and the ps2 keyboard to install the wireless keyboard.. at least apple is trying to fix it on macs




www.ouketi.blog-city.com

[mvc]

Originally posted by davidc2182
and its a great one!!! Make the darn things rechargeable with a usb cable, and then like magic you wont have to worry about this problem…

This brilliant, but obvious suggestion is exactly what Apple should have done in the first place - who the hell wants to have to worry if their battery is low/ wheres my charger, where's my new batteries, whatever. Thats what I think most people on this forum expected when they were first rumored.

Anyway, I have decided I am not going to moan about the lack of a second button and a scroll wheel, I'm not , just not, not ………

[dho]

How UN-APPLE this seems

It surprises me that they didnt figure out a workaround before they started making them.

I suppose two keyboards is better than one.:D

[DeusOmnis]

Yeah, they should come w/ a firewire cable or something so they can charge... and also, they could market it as "Wireless on Demand" where you dont have to have it wireless all the time, just when you want to.

[spinfits]

If the wireless keyboard had a FireWire plug on the back, you could plug it in to config it the first time and charge the internal battery. Sounds too easy to be true. No cradle. No batteries to change.

[pyrotoaster]

That's hilarious! :D

Ah, well. It's probably for the best. New switchers probably don't want to deal with wireless gizmos (beginner users, that is).

I'm sure Apple will figure something out and probably make it a BTO option.

[idkew]

Originally posted by spinfits
If the wireless keyboard had a FireWire plug on the back, you could plug it in to config it the first time and charge the internal battery. Sounds too easy to be true. No cradle. No batteries to change.

why waste a firewaire port? who even has a firewire hub?

usb is the answer to this, firewaire answers other questions.

[Bear]

Originally posted by spinfits
If the wireless keyboard had a FireWire plug on the back, you could plug it in to config it the first time and charge the internal battery. Sounds too easy to be true. No cradle. No batteries to change.
Actually this should be a USB connector. it doesn't need the speed of firewire. Also, I bet there isn't a firewire keyboard driver. And why waste firewire ports for a slow device anyway?

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Over Achiever
That makes sense. :)

It's like the parody...

"Unable to detect keyboard. Please press F1 to continue..."

Or something like that. :D

-O.A.

Not to get all geeky on you or anything, but that was not a parody, it was a common error message put out by many different brands of PC BIOS.

Really, it makes perfect sense, except that (in typical fashion) the implied step was left out for brevity: step "1" was "Find a keyboard and plug it in." After which you would press F1.

Yes, I had a PC which gave this error message (a garage-built 386SX-16 with 2MB RAM in about 64 DIMMs soldered right on the motherboard ...), and, yes, I actually saw the error message (more than once); plugging the keyboard in and pressing F1 let the computer finish booting ...

[blueflame]

they could make it a firewire, witha firewire port, that way, when its plugged in you have an extra firewire port, and when you want to reharge, it uses the ipod dock connector, best of everything, and you only need one cable, mabye for the isight, the ipod, and the keyboards and mouse
what do you all think
AK

[dho]

Firewire would be better because practically no power can be suplied over usb:(

[jettredmont]

Originally posted by Poff
It´s sort of stoopid. But for them to configure the system to use your bluetooth mouse, you would pay the same as you pay to get the ordinary keyboard in addition.. :/

Actually, it's worse than that. Just having someone boot up your machine at the factory and synch the BT devices would allow you to boot at home.

BUT, what if you ever had to reformat your disk and reinstall OS X? How would you boot your machine up?

No, the only "elegant" answer is to make the BT devices recognized at system boot time. Not sure how much work this would be. It would, however, also eliminate any need for anyone to do anything to your system prior to sending it off on FedEx.

[SeedlessX]

edit--got this in after the usb post above, never mind.

[j33pd0g]

Originally posted by SeedlessX
edit--got this in after the usb post above, never mind.

What about USB 2? Will that transfer power? If so, you would have to do the transfer from the tower. You wouldn't want to steel from the keyboards battery supply.

Unless Apple has found a way to transmit pure power via BT. And I think if they did that... many other worldly problems will soon be solved.

[Golem]

Originally posted by coolfactor
Hey Dan,

. Multi-buttons isn't on the top of my list since I prefer to use both hands when using my computer, and control-clicking works great. (what are you doing with your other hand, btw?)


Seen this is a couple of threads so it deserves a reply.

Depending on what I am doing my other hand has a coffee ,a sandwidge,a document or even is being used to press command and option since command option right click is a frequent occurence and so is a sequence like f2 right click f3 right click ten times,f2 right click,f3 right clicks with some left click interspersed.

What do you do with your other fingers on your mouse besides hold it and use 1 to press it?

[Rocketman]

Originally posted by frozenstar
I think they need to focus on getting the mice to work properly before they can even think about BTO options.
My Apple wireless mouse constantly loses connectivity. In addition, the scan resolution is low, and the response time is poor. This is probably the worst mouse I've ever owned.

I think the probelm is the blootooth feature is an extension and is loaded late in the bootup and the keyboard needs to be active at bootup to enable CMD-T and such.

I suppose someone could come oult with a keypad dongle with the main keys automated.

Unless BT is a motherboard item these will not be the shipping keyboards. Therefore it looks like G5's are rev A.

Rocketman

[ibjoshua]

USB rechargeable seems sooooo sensible.
what are they thinking at Apple??

i_b_joshua

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by j33pd0g
What about USB 2? Will that transfer power? If so, you would have to do the transfer from the tower. You wouldn't want to steel from the keyboards battery supply.

Unless Apple has found a way to transmit pure power via BT. And I think if they did that... many other worldly problems will soon be solved.

Most people don't understand this stuff to well. USB provides enough power for most uses.

Think of it this way....if it didn't supply enough power to power your keyboard and a mouse at the same time, you would have a power cord to your existing keyboard. Recharging a battery on a keyboard would take little more than what a keyboard uses. Heck, add some solar cells and supliment power, or atleast slow battery usage.

[new user]

yeah, rechargeable from usb/firewire and make the keyboard optional wired/wireless. of all companies, you would think apple would be the one who'd think of that first.

and i'm sure some variation of that could apply to the mouse.

of course, no one mentioned mechanical energy, keyboard powered by heat generated from typing! or for the mouse, clicking! or for the apple car, braking!

[appleguru1]

hrm... Now there's an interesting idea... Mechanincal power and rechargeable batteries (Regular store bought kind for easy replacment). Maybe put a few small wheels on the bottom of the mouse to get more energy (moving and clicking). And of course, a USB port on both KB and mouse to allow easy charging when needed, as well as for system installs, first boots, etc.

[Kenny Pollock]

I like my wireless keyboard and mouse from Apple, but I see Apple's problem.

I can't boot from CD's with this, can't wake from sleep with this, and can't boot into new OS.

[Ti_Pousin]

The more I see, I heard and I read about the new bluetooth mouse and keyboard of Apple, the less beautiful, usefull, fonctional I found them!

I really don't understand people still using one button mouse that you can use for setting your computer so anyway you will need a standard mouse and keyboard! The last mouse and keyboard have a look cheap. Really, I would like to have an option to order Mac without a mouse and keyboard from apple (maybe the old graphite full keyboard that was a good one).

This is my opinion so don't bash me but prove me that you have reason to use it;)

[plinkoman]

i'm willing to bet they will fix this in pather by having them automatically recognized and set up

[MacRAND]

Apple should have made the new Keyboard and Mouse USB with Bluetooth as a wireless option.

That would provide an easy way to set up Bluetooth recognition by close proximity (within 10 meters) and provide a "removable" USB cable for use in static locations, like at home on your desk where wirelessness is unimportant.

This is a situation where Apple probably wanted to save a buck on the removable USB cable to keep the price down.

For 14 years, I have just left the Apple Mouse in its original plastic bag, because I always purchase a Kensington trackball Expert Mouse at the same time I get a new Mac (currently G4 dual 1.0 GHz).

Two years ago, I tried Kensington's wireless Turbo Mouse and didn't like the lag in response to trackball movements, :( so I took it back for the tethered USB version and am very happy.:)

Now Kensington has a new 4 button (2 is so passé) BLACK Expert Mouse trackball with an awesome scroll ring around the trackball. :D Check it out:
http://www.kensington.com/html/2200.html

Although I'm totally uninterested in Apple's Bluetooth one-button Mouse, I'd like to get their Bluetooth wireless KB when they include a removable USB cable for setup and tethered use. ;)

[sonicsessions]

This reminds me of when I talked to the ADC consultant before my G5 was built. I asked if I could have the Keyboard and Mouse deleted from my order, as I had ordered a MacAlly iceKey, and already had a great m$ mouse. He said they couldn't ship a machine without all the parts necessary to run properly. I thought that was absurd... i mean, i had ordered another keyboard... i'd be fine... right? Wrong. I found out today why I needed an apple keyboard. I love my iceKey, but it requires drivers to utilize the volume and (most importantly) CD drive keys. This is fine when everything is working, but when your os gets fubar'd (as mine did today... damn DAVE! Damn it to hell!), and you have to open the drive to insert the OSX dvd, you're screwed. I had to fish the apple keyboard out just to be able to open the drive (without, of course, sliding the metal door down and going at my G5's super drive with a paperclip). So I can see why the wireless KB would be scary. But I don't see why the mouse would be a big deal.

[daddy-mojo]

Why bother to deal with it...you shouldn't be without a corded keyboard anyways. Just buy it separate....stash the corded one away. Its kinda like you're own BTO, buy it from here, then from there....etc....you need a corded one for doing certain start up things fsck and all that. Until they come out with cord/wireless combo, you're gonna need to have one on hand.

[MacRAND]

Apple KeyBoard USB/Bluetooth COMBO
Excellent moniker! Wireless or tethered option - YES. :D

Come on, Steve, get your head out of your apple... :(

The necessity of including "all the parts to make the computer work" really IS very important. I had forgotten the several times in 2002 I had problems with my 3rd party ergonomic kb and Kensington trackball Expert Mouse, and had to dig out my Apple Mouse and Apple Keyboard to plug into a USB port, which immediately solved all my input problems under OS X (which I now absolutely love). ;)

[bennetsaysargh]

i think that they should have one USB port on the back of the keyboard that you can use to connect to the computer with a USB cable and it can be wired. no internal battery, but like they are now. and then possibly the same thing with the mouse. then they could have it as a BTO option.

[sith33]

I think the real reason you can't have a bluetooth keyboard active at boot, ESPECIALLY on the first boot of a system is because of the inherent security features of bluetooth. How would the system know which keyboard was yours, if, say, there were 10 bluetooth keyboards around? How would you negotiate any of the security pairing? Just a thought.

[panphage]

Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
i think that they should have one USB port on the back of the keyboard that you can use to connect to the computer with a USB cable and it can be wired. no internal battery, but like they are now. and then possibly the same thing with the mouse. then they could have it as a BTO option.

Umm...that appears to say you could just have a wired keyboard and mouse w/o batteries. Which is the current standard Apple mouse and keyboard. We already have wired mice and keyboards with no batteries. No battery = no wireless, and that's all there is to that. Did you mean to add a ;) to that statement?

[SeaFox]

Originally posted by dho
Firewire would be better because practically no power can be suplied over usb:(

So I suppose my USB Zip drive is running off of happy emotions in the room?

[Sonofhaig]

Originally posted by idkew
who even has a firewire hub?


Um. I do. Is having a firewire hub strange? :rolleyes:

[idkew]

Originally posted by Sonofhaig
Um. I do. Is having a firewire hub strange? :rolleyes:

i would wager there are 50 usb hubs to every firewire hub. maybe more.

[panphage]

Originally posted by SeaFox
So I suppose my USB Zip drive is running off of happy emotions in the room?

Mine must be as well. Oddly enough, the firewire Zip drives require a seperate power cord. Hmm...anyway, I can't wait for a powered firewire 750 drive to show up.

[GeeYouEye]

It's a pairing/security issue, not a strictly technical one; IIRC, there's an * at the bottom of the product page about how you can boot into single user mode with the BT keyboard, but can't actually use it in single user mode.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by kidd0


I can't boot from CD's with this, can't wake from sleep with this, and can't boot into new OS.


Give them time. Initially when USB came out the BIOS didn't support keyboards or mice either and anyone with said device couldn't use DOS outside of windows. No DOS = No easy way to repair windows = your screwed unless you could find a USB DOS driver. heh ya right.

Same deal will go for BlueTooth and BlueTooth devices. The hardware will eventually support it out of the box as will the OS. It looks as if Panther will do this before the hardware itself so what you have is the middle man. (Honestly thought I have no idea what Macs have for BIOS. From what I understand its fairly diff from what PC's have so *shrugs*)

With that being said I think there are more elegant solutions for providing power to the device then what Apple decided on. Maybe its just me but it almost seems like it was rushed. :confused: But that makes no sense since what pressure would they have to release it ASAP? hmm.

As for charging via USB. UMMM NO. You can charge most small devices via USB. I charge my iPaq Pocket PC all the time.

[porovaara]

Bypassing the security aspects of Bluetooth really shouldn't be a big deal.

1st time you boot:
* Machine checks its own PRAM and sees no entry for "Bluetooth Paired Keyboard @bluetoothHexAddress".
* Machine then sits in discover mode looking for an ID-type of keyboard. Meanwhile the User has now taken out their Bluetooth keyboard and following the included instructions (which don't exist yet) is holding the Apple key. This tells the keyboard to sit in discoverable mode and over-rides any saved Bluetooth pairings saved in the keyboard.
* Machine finds keyboard, they auto pair up in an unencrypted mode or Apple has a default key that both devices know.
* Users goes through the setup process and at some point is allowed to pick a new pass code. This code is saved on the keyboard, the PRAM and the pairing is dropped and re-upped with this new code. If this process fails after a short time out revert to the defaults.

Or at least this is how I would do it if I was designing such a system.

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by kidd0
can't wake from sleep with this

As far as I know there is a Bluetooth option to allow Bluetooth devices to wake the computer from sleep...

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
(Honestly thought I have no idea what Macs have for BIOS. From what I understand its fairly diff from what PC's have so *shrugs*)

Isn't that the Open Firmware ?

[Hugin777]

At the Paris Keynote it was said Bluetooth would be great for use in classrooms. Wouldn't it be tempting to swap the keyboards of nearby computers ? That would be really confusing to unsuspecting users :) And the sysop had to mark every keyboard, mouse and computer to get it all sorted out again...

Doesn't sound that great to me. More like a nightmare.

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by davidc2182
and its a great one!!! Make the darn things rechargeable with a usb cable, and then like magic you wont have to worry about this problem
...


I'm glad someone brought this up... How hard would it have been to make the keyboard and mouse allow wired connections? It would have made the devices much more functional and cheaper-- add $10 for the USB, and save the cost of the second kb and mouse...

And save the cost of primary cell batteries... Lithium primaries for the mouse? Oy!

[Analog Kid]

Originally posted by Hugin777
At the Paris Keynote it was said Bluetooth would be great for use in classrooms. Wouldn't it be tempting to swap the keyboards of nearby computers ? That would be really confusing to unsuspecting users :) And the sysop had to mark every keyboard, mouse and computer to get it all sorted out again...

Doesn't sound that great to me. More like a nightmare.

Oh, but think of the revolution in passing notes in class! Just pair your keyboard to your girlfriends computer!

And computerized SATs?! Woohoo!

:eek:

[Analog Kid]

Been thinking about this some more, and I think the USB/BT KB/Mouse would solve so many problems...

One keyboard, one mouse for starts.
Recharge the batteries when needed.
Have a wired keyboard always available if the system goes screwy.
Have the USB hub back in the keyboard.

And the pairing issue can be automated-- the Mac has a wire link to the device and the BT. You could have 30 active devices next to you and the Mac could be sure to pair with the one it's wired to. Idiot proof. If something happens to whack the pairing, you can just plug it back in.

I'd then vote for having a way of keeping the USB cable stored in the keyboard. I know I'd never be able to find it otherwise... You could get away with one cable for both devices in a pinch, or have a second short lead to go to the mouse.

No firewire to the input devices, please... I don't want to have to chain my keyboard through my hard drive just so it can send an 8 bit code at 800Mbps when I touch a key...

[edit: still gotta admit though it would be fun for my mouse to be bus master!]

I can't believe no one at Apple thought about this-- there must be a catch.

[Stike]

Originally posted by Poff
that would actually be a very clever thing to do..

Isnt it impossible, because the current on the USB port is too low to charge batteries?

[biscuit]

Well this made me smile. What an oversight, seems like these were rushed out with little thought.

I'm also pretty convinced that these wireless things are rubbish. Can't be used properly at start-up, can't be used if your OS goes tits-up, will cause havoc in classrooms and/or get nicked from them and need a constant supply of batteries and/or plugging in to charge.

My friend's PC has a wireless KB/mouse that I quite like, so I can see the aesthetic appeal, but surely there's got to be a better way?

biscuit

[Hugin777]

Originally posted by biscuit
I'm also pretty convinced that these wireless things are rubbish.

If you can live with a one button mouse without scroll wheel the Bluetooth mouse is rather cool, IMHO. As they said: just toss it into your bag, no cables, no setup to use it again.

[biscuit]

Originally posted by Hugin777
If you can live with a one button mouse without scroll wheel the Bluetooth mouse is rather cool, IMHO. As they said: just toss it into your bag, no cables, no setup to use it again.
Well...I suppose that would be quite good for a laptop owner (like myself), but if I'm gonna shell out for an external mouse at all, then I want a two-button scroller. I suppose it just comes down to personal taste.

Besides, my iBook doesn't have built-in BT so it's not very economical to pay for an adaptor and a mouse separately.

biscuit

[SiliconAddict]

I wonder if MS's BlueTooth mouse and keyboard are compatible with Panther?

Wireless Intellimouse Explorer (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=001)

I mean we are just talking a mouse right? Wouldn't it just pick up the device as a mouse or can you force the system to detect the device as a mouse? :confused: My knowledge of BlueTooth can fit in a thimble :-\

[spinfits]

Originally posted by Bear
Actually this should be a USB connector. it doesn't need the speed of firewire. Also, I bet there isn't a firewire keyboard driver. And why waste firewire ports for a slow device anyway?

I agree that USB is best for keyboards, however, I was looking at solving a problem of charging the batteries. Firewire provides enough power, I don't think USB does? Good point about drivers.

[gregorypierce]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
I wonder if MS's BlueTooth mouse and keyboard are compatible with Panther?

Wireless Intellimouse Explorer (http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=001)

I mean we are just talking a mouse right? Wouldn't it just pick up the device as a mouse or can you force the system to detect the device as a mouse? :confused: My knowledge of BlueTooth can fit in a thimble :-\

The Microsoft Wireless Bluetooth Keyboard/Mouse combo is barely compatible with Windows in its current state. Its response time being very poor, its range being somewhat less than a Belkin adapter, and its bluetooth antenna not being able to talk to arbitrary bluetooth devices.

I've plugged one into a Mac just for grins and to see it do nothing useful :) That said, yes they should be compatible with Panther as the Bluetooth services interface in Panther is much more robust - but perhaps I've said too much ;)

[markie]

"The second button isn't needed on a Mac, but IS needed on a PC. Enjoy your Logitech."

How so? The second button and scroll wheel serve the EXACT same function on both platforms. There is nothing about the Mac that makes it any more or less necessary. It's a convienience, sure; but a MAJOR one that drastically increases the computer's ease of use. Of course you CAN use the scroll bar and you CAN use the context menu key (or the ctrl key on the Mac)... but it's much harder to use. For the Mac's ease of use (don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Mac, it's superior to Windows any day) the mouse Apple includes with their systems is such a critical flaw in that ease of use.

[nickysfuture]

USB provides enough power to run my flatbed scanner (Canon N1220U) without a wall plug; I don't see why it wouldn't be enough to charge something equivalent to a few AA batteries.

[markie]

USB supplies 5volts at 500mA. Enough to charge batteries for sure, but POWER A SCANNER?!?!?! That scanner (which I've heard of before) surely uses some incredible power saving technology...

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by plinkoman
i'm willing to bet they will fix this in pather by having them automatically recognized and set up

Yeah. How hard is it to write a boot script that on the first boot it searches for the keyboard and mouse to recognize it? Or have a pop-up window that says: The system has not detected a keyboard. If you have the BT keyboard, please [take the following steps to prepare it for pairing]" And then have the script run automatically unless the user hits the "any" key.

Or do it at the factory.

[Lancer]

Why don't they just have a USB lead that plugs into the KB & Mouse to setup them. then they could be unpluged and used wirelessly.

The Leads could also be used to charge the batteries.

Come on Apple build a multi button mouse, if I had not just got the MX700 I would be getting the MX900 (Bluetooth) when it works on OS X.

[gopher]

Originally posted by Macrumors
MacSlash posts (http://macslash.org/article.pl?sid=03/09/24/0945221&mode=thread) a report which explains why Apple Wireless Mouse and Keyboard are not presently a build-to-order option at the Apple Online Store.

Based on comments from an Apple representative, Bluetooth Devices need to be configured before their use. If they were to ship new Macs with only Wireless accessories, new users would have no functional keyboard and mouse in order to setup their systems.

Reportedly they are working on work-arounds.

To which I reply. Baloney! They are listed in the Input Devices on the store. You may not be able to build to order them per se, but you needn't finish your web order before you go back to the Input Devices section of the store and add them. Seems like Macslash has it wrong.

[themadchemist]

haha, that's funny.

[mproud]

Can't they just have an optional USB port and cable?
i.e. have the plug in the keyboard, once it's all set up...

Am I missing something?

By the way: Apple should try to patent (perhaps its too late) a way to charge up the keyboard/mouse by simple physics - everytime a person hits a key, that's energy being expelled. The keyboard, as probably not requiring as much juice as the mouse, could perhaps charge itself while in use without ever dying... most likely requiring a unique battery for the system, however... and standard batteries are the best way to go in the consumer world, so I can't argue with that

[bennetsaysargh]

what apple should do is bundle it. then, they can either configure at the factory or whatever, and/or make it so you can configure right when you turn your new panther computer on:)

[ibjoshua]

Originally posted by gopher
To which I reply. Baloney! They are listed in the Input Devices on the store. You may not be able to build to order them per se, but you needn't finish your web order before you go back to the Input Devices section of the store and add them. Seems like Macslash has it wrong.

yeah but the point is you can't 'upgrade' to them as a part of your mac order and as a result you end up with two keyboards and two mice.

i_b_joshua

[gopher]

That may not be a bad idea to have two keyboards and two mice. That way if one fails you always have a backup.

[bennetsaysargh]

Originally posted by gopher
That may not be a bad idea to have two keyboards and two mice. That way if one fails you always have a backup.

but with my idea, that would be eliminated!!
argh!:)