G5 - ATi 9600 good enough??

[prepuser]

About to order dual G5, but not sure about ATi 9600.

Upgrading form G4 350 with Radeon 32mb PCI. (yes, pretty crap for modern gaming I know). Will the difference be noticeable enough or should I stretch to the 9800.

Alternatively would it be wiser to go with 9600 for now then upgrade the card in the future, possibly a 256mb card when they become available.

[Dont Hurt Me]

if you are a hard core gamer get the 9800 if not the 9600 will be just fine and you will still be gaming with no problems. the 9600 is with out a doubt good enough.

[WannabeSQ]

I wouldn't bother with a 256mb card until 512mb cards are common.

But to answer your question, it depends on how many games you play, and if you play mostly first person shooters. Here (http://www.accelerateyourmac.com/G5/Dual_g5_9600_9800_tests.html) is a benchmark with the OEM 9600 and the Retail 9800. Basically like Dont Hurt Me said, if you are a hardcore gamer, you need to have the 9800, but its an extra $300+ and probably not worth it.

[lewdvig]

The 9600 is plenty fast. It is faster than a GF4.

Simply put, when you need a 9800P you will know it. By then, there will be faster cards around.

The 9600 will play UT2k3/4, Halo, Splinter Cell and Raven Shield quite nicely.

[prepuser]

My one concern is ADC connection as I know the retail 9800 only has dvi...why??...it's a Mac graphics card!

[lewdvig]

Correction... its a re-flashed PC card. That why it has the DVI.

[yamabushi]

I heard a rumour that the 9800 OEM is slightly faster than the retail 9800. I'm not sure why and have no idea if it's true or not.

Anyways, either 9800 has massive throughput. If you are a hardcore gamer that is the card to have. You will notice much higher frame rates. The 9600 is fine if you are just a casual gamer.

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by lewdvig
Correction... its a re-flashed PC card. That why it has the DVI.

The 9800? This is from the ATI specs. page:

Specifications

* 128MB DDR memory
* Dual Integrated 10-bit per channel 400MHz DACs
* Integrated 165MHz TMDS transmitter (DVI compliant and HDCP ready)
* Integrated TV-Out support up to 1024x768 resolution
* Multiple display connections
* DVI-I port
* VGA port
* S-Video port
* DVI-I to VGA & S-Video to Composite adapters included

System Requirements

* Mac® OS X 10.2.5 or later
* AGP 4x or 2x capable Macintosh®
* 128MB of system memory
* Installation software requires CD-ROM drive
* DVD playback requires DVD drive
* Power connection to the computer
RADEON™ 9800 PRO MAC EDITION requires connection to your computer’s internal power supply for operation. ATI recommends a 300-Watt power supply or greater to ensure normal system operation where a number of other internal devices are installed.

[lewdvig]

The retail card differs in absolutely no way from the retail PC card. The only difference is the BIOS. It will be a red PCB like all ATI cards. Made by Sapphire.

If I had to guess, the Apple OEM card will be green and made by Celestica or some other manufacturer. Same chip, same spec ram, but a slightly different set of connections.

So yeah, there is absolutely no difference between the PC and Mac versions excpet for the BIOS, the lack of decent drivers (look at the Catylyst 3.8), and the lack of overclocking software.

[jamesatzones]

Get the 9800 if you can afford it, truly amazing and well worth the price!!! I ordered my G5 with it and playing Unreal on the 23" Cinema with every option turned on is the best gaming experience I have ever had...

[tpjunkie]

The retail mac 9800 pro is limited to 4x AGP, while the ones you can get in BTO g5s are 8x AGP. This shouldn't be a problem for anyone upgrading their cards, as the G5 is the first mac to offer 8x agp

[lewdvig]

No current game is going to need agp texturing with 128meg cards - maybe doom iii, but even that is unlikely based on the alpha...

so you won't miss 8x agp

Most PC cards work on 4x or 8x mobos - not sure why ATI says their 9800 retail is only 4x.

[yamabushi]

Originally posted by lewdvig
No current game is going to need agp texturing with 128meg cards - maybe doom iii, but even that is unlikely based on the alpha...

so you won't miss 8x agp

Most PC cards work on 4x or 8x mobos - not sure why ATI says their 9800 retail is only 4x.

:confused:

4xAGP would reduce the throughput for all operations, not just texturing, wouldn't it? Besides the 9800 pro should be able to take advantage of the additional speed of 8X for screen draws and such, even if the 128MB of memory isn't filled to the brim with textures and such.

[lewdvig]

There have been a lot of tests done on AGP 4x vs. 8x on the PC side and there is almost no difference. I doubt PCI-Express will have much impact either.

AGP was invented for texturing really (back in the day of 4meg cards), all the other data coming across does not really benefit from the extra bandwidth.

Todays cards have more than enough room for high res frame buffers and texture caches. Screen redraws are calculated by the GPU and rendered in the frame buffer - on the card. The PC is sending the card coordinates and stuff like that.

I don't think its a very big deal. Besides, the 9800P is overkill for pretty much every Mac short of a G5 (and maybe even some G5s).

[MacsRgr8]

Originally posted by lewdvig


I don't think its a very big deal. Besides, the 9800P is overkill for pretty much every Mac short of a G5 (and maybe even some G5s).

There is this one little thing about the Radeon 9800 Retail which makes the card o-so worthwhile:

3D Override.

Besides, this card in a Dual G4 really does speed up the games aswell. In my Dual 1.25 Ghz G4, I have had the privilege (well... own money, really) to test most of the grfx cards available for the G4: nVidia Geforce 4 Ti 4600, ATi Radeons 8500, 9000 and 9800 Retail.
The 9800 does make a difference. By far the highest frame rates, and best FSAA and AF support, as done in the utility, so using your own settings.

[prepuser]

After reading everybodys helpfull advice, I've decided to go the extra mile for the G5 dual with 9800!

Should be taking delivery this week, will let you know what I think.

[AngryAngel]

The reason the retail version of the 9800P has no ADC is because Apple changed the ADC Power connectors near the AGP slot inthe G5. They could have made two retail versions- one for G4's and one for G5's, but they choose to exclude ADC instead and have a card that could go into both machines.

This is why you cannot put an old OEM Apple graphics card from a G4 tower (9000, etc.) into a G5. Not that you would really want to for any sensible reason....

[yamabushi]

What is with that funky ADC anyways? Isn't it just DVI and USB combined?

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by yamabushi
What is with that funky ADC anyways? Isn't it just DVI and USB combined?

+ Power... but its only USB 1.1... way to think ahead Apple. I personally detest ADC.

[Striderdm1]

Originally posted by prepuser
After reading everybodys helpfull advice, I've decided to go the extra mile for the G5 dual with 9800!

Should be taking delivery this week, will let you know what I think.

Hi, yes plz do let us all know how you get on. I've got a dual G5, but with the stock 9600 card (i am poor) ;) and i do not think the 9600 is good enough for the G5..

I'm saving each week, bit by bit, for a replacment gfx card. Wonder what will be out come next summer??!! :eek:

Till then, it's a 9600 slowing down this monster mac!! :D

ATB

[revenuee]

Originally posted by Striderdm1
Hi, yes plz do let us all know how you get on. I've got a dual G5, but with the stock 9600 card (i am poor) ;) and i do not think the 9600 is good enough for the G5..

I'm saving each week, bit by bit, for a replacment gfx card. Wonder what will be out come next summer??!! :eek:

Till then, it's a 9600 slowing down this monster mac!! :D

ATB

my friend got the Dual 2 GIG G5 with the 9800, really sweet set-up ... he said he had to in order to get two VGA monitors to work, really quite stunning graphics, and super fast processing

i think he still has the 9600 laying around - he didn't didn't get it through apple but rather a reseller, so he's got both cards... the other advantage of the 9800 over the 9600 is the TV out, great if you wanna hook your mac into a TV with out extra hardware and cables...


sigh ... now he's the big man on the block... i still remember when my G4 AGP was the envy of all my friends, now it's just an oversized paper weight compared to his machine... LOL

[lewdvig]

I think your buddy sold it on eBay this weekend. Can't be too many dudes in your area with a 9600 stripped from a G5 for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761773546&category=25449&rd=1

:^) I had my eye on it. Very fair price.

[lewdvig]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
+ Power... but its only USB 1.1... way to think ahead Apple. I personally detest ADC.

ADC is like three years old, USB 2.0 did not even exist back then.

Plus, who need need 480mb/s for a keyboard?

[revenuee]

Originally posted by lewdvig
I think your buddy sold it on eBay this weekend. Can't be too many dudes in your area with a 9600 stripped from a G5 for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2761773546&category=25449&rd=1

:^) I had my eye on it. Very fair price.

just asked... not him

hmm maybe i should buy it... although i don't think i need it right now

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by lewdvig
ADC is like three years old, USB 2.0 did not even exist back then.

Plus, who need need 480mb/s for a keyboard?

But the point is making a specialized all-in-one cable is a bad idea...all current studio displays are stuck at USB 1.1. I personally would use USB 2.0 in a monitor's hub.

[Striderdm1]

Originally posted by revenuee
my friend got the Dual 2 GIG G5 with the 9800, really sweet set-up ... he said he had to in order to get two VGA monitors to work, really quite stunning graphics, and super fast processing

i think he still has the 9600 laying around - he didn't didn't get it through apple but rather a reseller, so he's got both cards... the other advantage of the 9800 over the 9600 is the TV out, great if you wanna hook your mac into a TV with out extra hardware and cables...


sigh ... now he's the big man on the block... i still remember when my G4 AGP was the envy of all my friends, now it's just an oversized paper weight compared to his machine... LOL

:-)
everything changes, it won't be long before my dual 2ghz is no longer the fastest.. but this is the way it should be, for the good of the Mac :-)
But for now, i'm enjoy having one of the fastest macs in the world - oh yea!!

[yamabushi]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
But the point is making a specialized all-in-one cable is a bad idea...all current studio displays are stuck at USB 1.1. I personally would use USB 2.0 in a monitor's hub.

I agree that it is a bad idea. Seperate cables would not add much clutter and could hasten the availability of DVI graphics cards. If Apple wants to put a USB hub in the display, fine. No need to require a specialized cable for this though.