The Rugby World Cup Thread

[dobbin]

So, the rugby world cup in Australia is only a week away now.

I think England have got their best chance ever of lifting the William Webb Ellis trophy this year, but the competition is very strong and Australia are likely to perform well on home soil.

AFAIK rugby is not hugely popular in the US, but I think the US team could get to the quarter finals if Scotland do not perform well in group B. I can't imagine they will threaten the 'big' teams though.

Any other thoughts or comments on RWC2003?

[robbieduncan]

As long as England don't win I'll be happy. Now before you all start saying that this is a terrible thing to say can I just point out that as a Scotsman living in England this is a totally justifiable viewpoint. If England win the TV, Radio and everything else will be full of it for weeks. I would rather not have to put up with this so hope they don't win.

[WinterMute]

Yes, Jonny Wilkinson is a god who will crush all before him...

...or pop his shoulder in the first game trying to kill a Georgian centre and be out of the whole thing:D

I like the look of the english squad, it has a balance and depth about it that bodes well for a hi-profile tournament, my only fear is a Wilkinson injury, as his cover is Paul Grason, and he's not in the same ballpark.

Lets see what happens in the SA game, that'll be a good indicator.

[mac15]

I'm glad it down here in Australia, since it hasn't started I can only say 'go you good thing!'

[dobbin]

Originally posted by robbieduncan
As long as England don't win I'll be happy. Now before you all start saying that this is a terrible thing to say can I just point out that as a Scotsman living in England this is a totally justifiable viewpoint. If England win the TV, Radio and everything else will be full of it for weeks. I would rather not have to put up with this so hope they don't win.

I understand where you're coming from, but why don't you support all the 'home nations'? After all we're all from the same country aren't we? I will be supporting England, Scotland and Wales (unless we meet each other at some stage!)

It would be great for one of these teams to win rather than the southern hemisphere countries again.

If not a Briish team then my next choice would be Ireland and then France. Not the bloody Ozzies though please!

Anyway, its just kicked off and will provide welcome relief from the awful football stories that have dominated this week.

[iGav]

Originally posted by dobbin
I understand where you're coming from, but why don't you support all the 'home nations'? After all we're all from the same country aren't we? I will be supporting England, Scotland and Wales (unless we meet each other at some stage!)

It would be great for one of these teams to win rather than the southern hemisphere countries again.

If not a Briish team then my next choice would be Ireland and then France. Not the bloody Ozzies though please!

Anyway, its just kicked off and will provide welcome relief from the awful football stories that have dominated this week.

because the Scots and Welsh hate us.... :eek: :eek: :p and would rather the French, Ozzies, All Blacks beat us.... than have us win.... :p

[mac15]

I'd say the aussies are gonna win this one, its 14-3 and its just after half time against argentina.....go you good thing

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by robbieduncan
As long as England don't win I'll be happy. Now before you all start saying that this is a terrible thing to say can I just point out that as a Scotsman living in England this is a totally justifiable viewpoint. If England win the TV, Radio and everything else will be full of it for weeks. I would rather not have to put up with this so hope they don't win. Justifiable my arse. Just bloody typical Scots attitude. Just because your team's hopeless you hate to see England do well. Even to the point of supporting ANYONE who plays England. Next time your lot looks like they're gonna do well in the curling you can forget about my support;)

[iGav]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Justifiable my arse. Just bloody typical Scots attitude. Just because your team's hopeless you hate to see England do well. Even to the point of supporting ANYONE who plays England. Next time your lot looks like they're gonna do well in the curling you can forget about my support;)


:p :p :p :p :p :p

[kiwi_the_iwik]

We'll win - end of story.

:cool:

[WinterMute]

Yeah caveman, go you good thing:D :D

Aussies made hard work of the Pumas, good to see the lock that got knocked out is OK.

England is still going to cream everyone else:p :p

[kiwi_the_iwik]

OK - I'm putting £50 on an All Black vs. England final...

Doesn't mean you guys are gonna win by any means -

I'm still putting £100 on the All Blacks to turn you Brits upside-down by the ankles, pull your legs apart until they snap, and make a wish...

:D

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
OK - I'm putting £50 on an All Black vs. England final...

Doesn't mean you guys are gonna win by any means -

I'm still putting £100 on the All Blacks to turn you Brits upside-down by the ankles, pull your legs apart until they snap, and make a wish...

:D

Hmm England != GB!

Anyway congratulations on the destruction of Italy! I hope Scotland can manage the same tomorrow!

[748s]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
OK - I'm putting £50 on an All Black vs. England final...

Doesn't mean you guys are gonna win by any means -

I'm still putting £100 on the All Blacks to turn you Brits upside-down by the ankles, pull your legs apart until they snap, and make a wish...

:D

easy money. who they play in the final is anyone's guess, but it wont matter. kiwi's first. daylight second. Tana Umaga done a knee and could be out of the series. the only thing that will beat NZ is injuries.

[iGav]

Originally posted by 748s
easy money. who they play in the final is anyone's guess, but it wont matter. kiwi's first. daylight second. Tana Umaga done a knee and could be out of the series. the only thing that will beat NZ is injuries.

personally I don't think it's that clear cut... England have the best team at the mo, after monstering all comers for the last year.... ;)

[sparky76]

Good to see Ireland on the way, too.
I do think England will win it, though, and it is fair to complain about that - we will have total media coverage of "how great England are" for weeks. Still, hard to blame them - grasping at the one game they invented and are still good at.

[iGav]

Originally posted by sparky76
Good to see Ireland on the way, too.
I do think England will win it, though, and it is fair to complain about that - we will have total media coverage of "how great England are" for weeks. Still, hard to blame them - grasping at the one game they invented and are still good at.

Ireland's my second team, what with being half Irish and all ;)

I hope England win it.... we certainly have the squad, but also it'd do our country some good.... we're crap at alot of things, so it'd be nice to win something big for a change, it's just a shame that so many other countries seem so down on us not to do well.... almost all of the time :(

If the aussies win though, you can be sure of one thing.... no other nationality party quite as hard.. not even the Irish.... ;) I'll be straight down the Oz bar in Covent Garden to join in.... :D :D :D

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Originally posted by iGAV
personally I don't think it's that clear cut... England have the best team at the mo, after monstering all comers for the last year.... ;)

Didn't you know?!?

We were just lulling you guys into a false sense of security!

;)

[cb911]

i just saw a game last night... wasn't sure which one it was, but it was France Vs. Fiji. i had to laugh when i saw who was playing. :D that's just the most unlikely combination of sporting teams i could ever think of. :p

and what's with their clothes? they're all dressing like they're participating in Tour de France?:confused: since when was skin tight lycra part of rugby? seems a bit *strange* to me.

i'm not a big fan of rugby anyway.... so they can wear all the lycra they want.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Well, cb - I'm not a fan of the "SPANDEX" look either. I think it's daggy.

Whatever happened to the classy rugby jerseys of the past?!? Just because these teams have new kits, doesn't mean they can play any better.



But - like they say:

"You can polish a turd all you want - but it's still a turd..."

[robbieduncan]

Wow, were we (Scotland) lucky or what! The score really didn't reflect how badly we played.

So England next, and I support the best of luck to them!

With reference to the above comments on the skin tight shirts I'd have to say I agree. I can't imagine that the fans will like them. Without wanting to stereotype anyone your average rugby fan is probably not a slim well muscled man! I really don't think those shirts will look good with a massive beer gut.

[WinterMute]

I think England served notice to everyone against Georgia, a tough team who played well in defence but were outclassed. Even with half the first team substituted (7 in all) they still managed to rack up 12 tries.

Bring on South Africa, that'll be the real acid test.

Scotland were soooo lucky, and in the end their superior fitness saved them, but they played scrappy rugby and the Japanese team did themselves proud, they deserved the extra point at the very least.

[robbieduncan]

Can't disagree at all. I thought that the only weakness that England showed was a scary number of unforced handling errors. That could have simply been down to the conditions. I still think the All Blacks will win though. They managed to score 11 tries against Italy, probably a better side than Georgia.

[WinterMute]

Italy better than Georgia? That'd be a close one to call...;)

There was talk of admitting an eastern European nation to the then 5 Nations championship, I believe Romania was mentioned, but Italy got the nod and are still the whipping boys.

The handling was poor at times, but the Georgian three-quarters were pushing the offside rule heavily, and were putting a lot of good pressure on in broken play, which was causing England to hurry, plus it was very wet and the ball was skidding around a lot. England should have been neater though.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

England has no-one to test them - until they play South Africa. That'll be a war of attrition. The SA Rugby team are renowned for being cheating bastards in the heat of battle - And for HATING Jonny Wilkinson.

In fact, whilst they were in training, their crash-tackle bags had his picture and name all over them...

So, he's gonna be a marked man.

But - he's also a one-man rugby team in his own right. The man's a legend, so he should be able to fend off any nastiness. And, of course, any would-be attackers would also have to get through Martin Johnson... Heh, heh!

If only the All Blacks had a fly-half of that stature. Carlos has been performing like 4 kinds of *****e lately, and Mehrtens has been left out of the side. Still, there might be light at the end of the tunnel if John Mitchell can tap into one of NZ's ever-growing supply of rugby natural resources.

One option would be to put Daniel Carter in charge of the boot - he's got a great eye, and is a great runner of the ball.

I still can't see why Christian Cullen isn't in the squad - the best back in the business. Obviously, a personality clash with Mitchell.

Never mind - we'll still win - even WITHOUT Tana Umaga.

:D

[whocares]

[i]
But - like they say:

"You can polish a turd all you want - but it's still a turd..." [/B]

Not that I'm French or anything (just live there), those spandexed frogs *did* beat the All Blacks in the last rugby world cub (semi-final). That said they weren't so good in the last 6 Nations...


GO ENGLAND

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Yes, yes - so, they beat us the LAST time. But THIS time - well, we won't be going in so complacently.

Expect to see dagger-like stares, much snarling and flared nostrils aplenty during the Haka...

We're out for blood - and there's no-one who can stop us!

GO THE ALL BLACKS!!!

www.allblacks.com

:cool:

[iGav]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Yes, yes - so, they beat us the LAST time. But THIS time - well, we won't be going in so complacently.


:p :p :p you never know, the Aussies might beat you first.... :eek: :p :p

if it's an All Blacks England final, I suggest we all meet up for beers and mucho male bonding session.... in the Aussie bar in Covent Garden.... heh-heh....

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Ooooh, Gav - it's a date.

And do you REALLY think that the Wallabies even make a CHINK in the armour of the Mighty All Blacks?!?

I don't think so - especially with George Gregan at the helm. The guy's a wimp.

:D

[iGav]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Ooooh, Gav - it's a date.


you're on.... ;) :D :D that'd really peeve the aussies in the aussie bar off as well... heh-heh!!

Anyone see the Fiji Vs USA game?? I did... some really hard tackles (excuse the pun) :eek: :p :p and not a hint of 'Hud Hud Hud' from the USA team either.... heh-heh-heh!

[kiwi_the_iwik]

iGAV - We should go to the Walkabout in Temple - a GREAT venue for sports events...

Fiji vs. USA - Hmmm...

Fiji were EXTREMELY lucky - poor ball handling skills mixed up with amazing breakaway runs...

The USA must be KICKING themselves - the fly-half missing that CRUCIAL conversion in the last seconds - AARRGGHH!!

...Could've been the upset of the tournament so far...

[iGav]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
iGAV - We should go to the Walkabout in Temple - a GREAT venue for sports events...


The Walkabout..... now that rings a bell... I'm sure that's the name of the aussie bar in Covent Garden...? they're a chain aren't they??

I didn't even realise the USA played rugby.... I was half expecting them to come on with helmets and body armour.... heh-heh-heh!

[kiwi_the_iwik]

The Walkabout - a nice little chain of Aussie/Kiwi bars...

I just came back from Blackpool the other day on assignment - and was elated to find a really great Walkabout Bar up there. It certainly made it bearable (especially with the filthy weather; the crappy light display known as the "illuminations"; the ridiculous hotels that remind me of Fawlty Towers complete with kitsch wallpaper and a sad old man playing showtunes on his Hammond Organ; the tide that goes out for 3 miles and doesn't come back for a week; the lame donkey rides; the bizarre and out-of-place Blackpool Tower; the constant entourage of Stag and Hen parties that flood the strip bars and meat markets, and cause the locals to advise on "double-wrapping if you plan to go out on the pull - as it has the unwieldly reputation of being the STD capital of the UK; oh - and being a town full of Tories... but I digress).

Suffice it to say - I don't mind the place. Friendly faces, Antipodean accents, good bar food and a nice selection of Kiwi/Aussie beers. Still - I don't frequent them very often. I'm a firm believer of "When in Rome...", so I enjoy the local bars, too. But if I ever feel a little nostalgic for the "old country", then I go just to get my fill of home - and see the Aussies and Kiwis in a more natural habitat. The novelty usually takes about 15 minutes - which is when I realise why I'm over here in the first place...

;)

Sorry to get SLIGHTLY off-topic.

The English will beat South Africa on Saturday - but not without controversy. Those cheating SAFF'ers will be constantly marking Jonny Wilkinson, and will try to take him out early. It's always been their strategy. What a pity for them that they will FAIL...

However -

I STILL think the All Blacks will win the whole shebang.

:D

[Jaykay]

Wahey, go Ireland. I think its quite funny that we are ranked third in the world above the aussies no less (i know its because we have had so many easy games but leave us in our protected bubble for another week or two).

And also, why are people giving out about the French jerseys when the England ones are the exact same. I know its probably to stop people tugging their shirts but damn they look awful...

[WinterMute]

OK, I'm a bit worried about Bracken, he doesn't have the strength of Dawson, who tends to play very much like a 9th forward and works to the Engalnd packs strengths, although he can be very creative and gave SA a real torrid time off the foot of the scrum.

I'm not so worried about Hill, Corrie is as good if not quite as flexible, he's also quicker.

Bring it on then SA, it's going to be harsh.

[robbieduncan]

Originally posted by iGAV
The Walkabout..... now that rings a bell... I'm sure that's the name of the aussie bar in Covent Garden...? they're a chain aren't they??

There's one over Shepherd's Bush Way as well.

p.s. Best of luck tomorrow, I think you'll need it!

[WinterMute]

Who's gonna bet against England in the final now?

25-6 over SA, in a scrappy and very hard fought game, I thought we were going to throw it away after the 1st half, but they came out and gave as good as they got.

I think the difference between this team and other England sides in previous years is that when they play poorly, and this was a poor performance by their standards, they still win and win well.

The clear water was Jonny Wilkinson again, and Bracken played a monster game.

Refereeing was poor, he didn't apply the rules consistently, and missed sooo many offsides and infractions in the loose.

Had Koens kicked well in the first half it would have been a different result.

Wales in the quarter and France (maybe) in the semis, I've got and Enland/All-black final.

Bring it on.:D

1000th post

[iGav]

Originally posted by WinterMute
Who's gonna bet against England in the final now?

25-6 over SA, in a scrappy and very hard fought game, I thought we were going to throw it away after the 1st half, but they came out and gave as good as they got.

I think the difference between this team and other England sides in previous years is that when they play poorly, and this was a poor performance by their standards, they still win and win well.

The clear water was Jonny Wilkinson again, and Bracken played a monster game.

Refereeing was poor, he didn't apply the rules consistently, and missed sooo many offsides and infractions in the loose.

Had Koens kicked well in the first half it would have been a different result.

Wales in the quarter and France (maybe) in the semis, I've got and Enland/All-black final.

Bring it on.:D

1000th post

I'm in total agreement.... mr mute.... ;)

We've got good depth of squad as well, and that has helped alot when we're experiencing injuries.... something that arguably we've also never had before...

Atleast we're getting tested early on... which is good for the team, if ultimately more challenging in the long run...

Once England settled down though.... ;)

Bring em' on.... ;) :) :D

[iGav]

Originally posted by robbieduncan
There's one over Shepherd's Bush Way as well.


The aussies are castlemaine XXXXin' everywhere.... :eek: :p :p :p

I went to one (well tried to get into one) in Birmingham earlier this year.... it was after 6pm on a Saturday, and they wouldn't let me in because I had my Acupunctures on.... :rolleyes:

Birmingham is, IMHO the worst night out in the entire British Isles.... seriously cr@p atmosphere, with the worst doorman around.... :rolleyes: :(

[robbieduncan]

Wow that was close (Wales vs Tonga). Very exciting. I love watching the polynesian (spelling?) teams. Even when they look beat they just keep coming and running.

Lets see if Ireland can beat the Lion Tamer (Namibia have one in their starting line up). I think this is what makes the RWC more interesting than many other big sporting events. You get to see the best in the world playing against the part-timers who are getting the chance of a lifetime.

[WinterMute]

It was good to watch two of the real biggies going at it though, you can only see so many small teams getting creamed before it gets a bit boring.

The French looked rattled for a while, and America played some good rugby, but watching England/SA was a treat, even if it was messy.

I watch a lot of club rugby here, and some of those national sides would be hard put to beat the good club sides.

This World Cup is going to explode in the knockout stages.:D

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Well, well, well - an All Black trouncing of the Tongans was well worth a watch -

91-7...

We had a few basic errors to start with, but a comprehensive victory nonetheless.

The two Hakas were brilliant - especially when they both kicked in together (the highlight of the match in my opinion!).

Finally, New Zealand has scope with its kicking - and they've found it in Leon MacDonald. What a find!!! Didn't miss a conversion in any of his attempts (12 from 12 - Carlos Spencer converted one try himself) - from all over the field in atrocious conditions, and the pressure of trying to impress the selectors under a full house - he rose to the occasion brilliantly. AND he scored a try...

Go the All Blacks!

On the OTHER hand, the South Africans certainly made it look hard against... ...ahem... Georgia. It looks to be a walkover for the All Blacks in the Quarter Finals when the two teams meet...

:D

[iGav]

well first scare of the tournament so far, and big up for the Samoa boys, as I thought they were going to totally nail us in the first 25 minutes and finish the game off there and then! :eek: :rolleyes:

we're still making too many unforced handling errors, and lacking structure to our play, even the boy wonder Wilkinson was looking out of sorts today.

great game though.... on to the next!! :D

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by iGAV
well first scare of the tournament so far, and big up for the Samoa boys, as I thought they were going to totally nail us in the first 25 minutes and finish the game off there and then! :eek: :rolleyes:

we're still making too many unforced handling errors, and lacking structure to our play, even the boy wonder Wilkinson was looking out of sorts today.

great game though.... on to the next!! :D

They've got to sort out the half-back channels, we had 6 players at scrum half, and Wilkinson had the poorest game I've ever seen him play.

Bracken works better than Dawson behind this pack, Dawson works too much like a 9th forward, Brackens distribution is better.

If we play like that against a top-class side we'll get hammered.

No disrespect to the Samoans intended, they played a blinder and only really lost cos of England's phenomenal fitness and and a flash of the Wilkinson talent.

The knockout stages are looking more interesting by the second.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Oooh - big match on Saturday - South Africa Vs. Samoa.

Considering how SAF are going (they REALLY need to sort out their flyhalf - Koen is playing like 4 different types of crap...), they'll certainly be struggling against an on-form and firing Samoan attack.

Samoa have been fuelled by a top performance against a hapless England side, who put in a lacklustre display. Although the score certainly didn't reflect it, Woodward's men definitely need to put in the hard yards if they mean to go all the way - especially with a prospective meeting with an in-form French side in the semis...

New Zealand can still take 'em all...

:cool:

[iGav]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik

New Zealand can still take 'em all...

:cool:

:p :p :p New Zealand haven't even been tested yet.... but what do you expect when you're in the easiest group!! heheh :eek: :p :p

[iGav]

We've just been fined £10 daddy G's for fielding 16 players against Samoa...

On to the next! heheh!

[kiwi_the_iwik]

It's not OUR fault that we're unattainable...

We still cleaned up in the Tri-Nations, and against France. The English victory against us in Wellington on June 14th was a close-fought one (13-15), and gave us many strategies to work on against you guys. As far as I can see, your style hasn't changed at all since then - relying on your forwards, and on the boot of Wilkinson to get you out of trouble.

As Reuben Thorne's first big test, it was a bit of a failure - he's learned from his mistakes. The fact that you had 2 players off (through KILLING the ball), and that we had a penalty in front of the sticks would have meant that we would have sat in the lead had we gone for the 3 points - instead, Thorne decided to run the ball. A poor decision - we could have retained the ball on the restart, and you would have been 2 players short in defense.

When we ran the ball, we lost possession through a scruffy maul (going over the top - they got a bit ahead of themselves). And with that, your team did a fantastic job of retaining possession until Back and Dallaglio returned from the bin.

Also - without the 15 points from Wilkinson, you would've been stuffed - AND you were lucky that So'oailo's try was disallowed in the second half. Carlos Spencer also had a shocker that night - and his duties have since been replaced by the magic boot of Leon MacDonald. Watch out for that boy - he's a genius.

All-in-all, be afraid - be VERY afraid...

:cool:

[748s]

i'm still saying new zealand first....daylight second.
new zealand=runaway train.
the trophy stays where it belongs, in the southern hemisphere:D

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Originally posted by 748s
i'm still saying new zealand first....daylight second.
new zealand=runaway train.
the trophy stays where it belongs, in the southern hemisphere:D

Amen to that, brother...

:cool:

[iGav]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Amen to that, brother...

:cool:

Zealots.... both of ya!! heheh :eek: :p :p

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
It's not OUR fault that we're unattainable...

(snip)

All-in-all, be afraid - be VERY afraid...

:cool:

Ancient history my black-clad friend:D

Having nothing but patsies in the group phase leaves you very vulnerable to a right old scragging in the knockout, the Aussies or SA will like nothing better than to give you a kicking in the quaters and the semis (assuming it's not Samoa of course):p :p

We, on the other hand, have a picnic with the Welsh followed by the small matter of Agincourt part 2 with the French, so it's easy really, we meet the All-blacks in the final, refreshed and picking the bones of the French from our teeth, you, battered and bloodied and barely able to scratch a team together....

OK, I hope its a full strength clash on both sides, there's the small matter of a bloke called Lomu to be sorted;) ;)

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Lomu's long gone - we've got plenty of scope left, namely in a bloke called "Joe Rokocoko"...

Then there's the natural flair of Douggie Howlett, and of course, Daniel Carter, Chris Jack and Leon MacDonald to boot.

And how can you go past Justin Marshall in the backs?

I rest my case.

:p

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Lomu's long gone - we've got plenty of scope left, namely in a bloke called "Joe Rokocoko"...

Then there's the natural flair of Douggie Howlett, and of course, Daniel Carter, Chris Jack and Leon MacDonald to boot.

And how can you go past Justin Marshall in the backs?

I rest my case.

:p

I know lomu's gone, but the vision of him trampling Tony Underwood in the last world cup runs deep in the English psyche...

As for your so called new talent, I think we have the beating of them in the three-quarters, and Wilkinson is more than capable of going THROUGH Justin marshall:D :D ;) ;)

better not rest your case too much eh?

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I've completely written off the Australians after their paultry performance against Woodies' men. Damn, Ireland played well...

So close, too...

As for the Saffies - well, they didn't look much chop in the first quarter, but then they started playing like a cohesive 15 through the match. And the Samoans looked like a tired and unhealthy side - completely different from the team that took England to task the week before...

All Blacks tomorrow against Wales - and the foregone conclusion that IS England against Uruguay...

We'll see who's laughing last, Winter...

Mark my words -

"The Mighty All Blacks OWN the William Webb Ellis Trophy"

:cool:

[WinterMute]

"He who laughs last doesn't understand the Joke";)

Well, the All-blacks certainly looked a cohesive and unbeatable unit against Wales, NOT:D

Holes in midfield you could steer an oil tanker through, a tight 5 who didn't seem to recognise the fact they were playing rugby, and a distinct lack of inventiveness in attack made them look very ordinary against a Welsh side who only lost cos they ran out of steam in the last 10 mins.

If they play like that against England or Australia then they'll be going home early.

Wales played exceptional rugby in parts, and it makes the quarter-finals an interesting prospect.

Englands deconstruction of Uraguay was expected and professionally done, I just hope dan Luger wasn't hurt too badly.

OK, the wake up alarms have officially sounded for the big boys.:D

"Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war"

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Now, Winter - it's called "Confidence"...

In saying that, I've bitten off half my fingernails during that match (looks like I won't be playing the guitar for a few weeks...).

The All Blacks received a very welcome wake-up call with that match - Wales played an absolute BLINDER (and actually deserved to win, if you ask me...).

There were a few shining moments:

Marshall, moved to 5/8ths, showed a natural flair - Leon MacDonald did well under pressure - Joe the Rock did what he was best at - and Douggie Howlett showed why he's one of the best in the business.

As for Wales:

Well - they all played so well. You can tell that the Welsh coach Steve Hansen was an ex-All Black assistant coach - and thus his players rightfully exploited the All Blacks' weaknesses.

Consolidation time for the New Zealand pack - definitely a bollicking after the match, but enough time to pick up the pieces and surge forward towards the South African Quarter Final face-off next weekend. We really needed a "tester" - nothing like bringing the strongest side in the world back down to earth (for a time, at least...).

;)

[WinterMute]

Well, New Zealand looked pretty good in dismantling South Africa in a very enjoyable game, and Australia bribed the ref to look the other way for most of the game against Scotland.

I was appauled by the refereeing in the Aussie game, he constantly missed the crossing and obstruction in midfield, he penalised the scots for very borderline infringements, and let the first Aussie try stand even though the ball came from a blatantly offside player.

Worse than that he saw Sailor throw a punch and took no action, and in stopping play to do nothing he stopped a good scoring opportunity for Scotland who were clear through if he had played the advantage.

It's not often an Englishman will give the Scots an even break, but they were unfairy handicapped.

That said, Australia looked good on the break, but are going to get severely hammered by the All-blacks, who will then lose to England in the final:D :D ;) ;)

[kiwi_the_iwik]

In your WILDEST dreams...

Heh, Heh!

You've still got to get past the Welsh - and you should be very wary, considering the difficulty they put the All Blacks through (and THEY'RE no pushovers...).

AND if you make it through against Wales, there's always that little "hurdle" known as the Semi-finals - where you'll be up against either a FIRING Irish side, or a determined French side.

I'm picking the French to go through tomorrow - even though I'm secretly hoping the Irish kick their sorry asses. That'll mean a nice meeting for the All Blacks in the Finals with the Brits, perhaps?

We DEFINITELY know it'll be the All Blacks in the final - but there's a tinge of uncertainty between the other mob...

Wasn't Carlos brilliant today? Visionary passing, confidence in his running AND kicking - the guy's got it all.

Jerry Collins played a blinder too - Joe the Rock scored his expected try as well - and Leon MacDonald had a great game, even though he wasn't 100% with the boot.

Look out - we're coming...


:cool:

[Mark James]

Looks as though the (Australian) theory that Australia could magically pull one out of the hat is finally disproved. They played their now customary dreary, cynical game to beat a poor Scotland by a flattering margin. Super 12s rugby means they no longer have a scrum or a lineout (*what* has happened to the big ape Harrison?!). The two Georges were their usual nasty, sniping, offside selves, and a decent referee would have dealt with that. Larkham? Didn't even know he was playing until he was replaced.

NZ were solid, but I think if Carlos Spencer was a South African the result would have been different. He was *that* good.

The Sunday games? I don't think Wales can reach the heights they did against NZ, and even if they do I think it will just force England to raise their game (it's about time). Must be a huge selection headache for Wales; personally I'd go with the 'second string' backs that played against NZ.

France/Ireland was always going to be the hardest QF to call. Have seen very little of France this tournament but obviously they're playing well, even if they haven't been tested yet. If O'Driscoll starts and plays well, and if Woods is in inspirational form, Ireland can win. But on balance it has to be a narrow French victory.

So the real World Cup Final will be between England and France next weekend. England will win, then have a triumphal stroll in the park against NZ, who will have destroyed Australia in the other semi.

Simple, really.

[WinterMute]

I really don't fancy England to take France after that little display.:eek:

Wales deserve massive respect for the heart and skill they showed today, the difference in the end was fitness, Jonny Wilkinson's boot and a towering second half from Mike Catt, even so, they were unlucky with 11 points missed from the boot, and a few crucial handling errors.

England have a huge amount to do if they want to get to the final.

Still playing below par and still winning, it won't work anymore, any of the other three teams left would have mullered England today. We have to start playing the game that England can play, the game that beat everyone else in the world this year.

[Mark James]

England were woeful, weren't they? They showed about as much wit and imagination as Australia. Didn't look like 'constructing' a try; we were saved by Robinson's individualism.

I agree with you, Mr Mute: I don't believe England can shake themselves out of their recent torpor and see off France. It's a bugger: we finally see the first English team since 1991 capable of winning Bill, aided by a decline in the Tri-Nations teams, and it now looks as though we ourselves have peaked too soon.

Can't remember ever, ever having to thank the higher power for Mike Catt before. Strange times indeed.

Pah. Silly game anyway. Up The Arsenal!

[WinterMute]

A Gooner eh?

See you over in the Liverpool FC thread at some point, LOSER...

(sound of straws being grasped)

Trailing 2:1 at ManUre at the moment:mad:

I think that England has a good performance or two in them, but the problem is that they have to be the next two, and good probably isn't enough, exceptional probably won't be enough, we have to be utterly brilliant, and I think that's a step too far.

I fear you may be right Sarf London, we have peaked too soon.

Mind, Wilkinson started to look the part with Catt outside him, his game improved 100%, and his kicking was excellent. We really miss Hill in the back row, his mobility and linking play are world class, and I don't think Moody is an acceptable replacement. It's not all doom and gloom, we beat Wales, not vice versae, and they scored more against the All-blacks.

My one other hope is that the semi between Oz and New Zealand is so destructive and vicious that the winners won't be able to field a full team for the final:eek:

Bring on the French.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Australia's big problem is George Gregan - he's just not captain material. Their team lacks cohesian, and has no vision. Compared to the performance against the Saffies last weekend, the New Zealand team has rightly regained their status as the "Mighty All Blacks" of old.

So, let's face it - the All Blacks are gonna tear the Wallabies a new orifice next weekend.

You folks should be more concerned about the French - you had to rely on a South African (Catt) to lift the spirits of a shabby and worn team. Woodward must've used some colourful metaphors at half-time - but it was a spectacular performance by the Welsh in any book. Watch for THEM in the next 6 Nations...

The only way I saw the French to be defeated was to RUN at them, and kick through the back line - Ireland did it in the 2nd (after a woeful first half) and it paid off. If only their gameplan was consistant all the way through, then it wouldn't have been the anti-climax it became.

Roll on the finals - the French are looking fast and strong. You guys, on the other hand, peaked WAY to early...

:cool:

[Mark James]

It's very hard to envisage the NZ/Aus game being even remotely competitive.

England has a chance against France, but have to get their act together quickly.

Kiwi, how you've the gall to start making snide comments about Mike Catt's country of birth is beyond me. I mean... well, you know full well what I mean.

Yep, it will be a good Six Nations. Wales look very, very imaginative at 9-10-12-13, and have a couple of good back row guys. What they need is more physical strength in the front five: if they can develop/uncover that then they'll have a team. France can bloom and fade from year to year, but I've a feeling they'll enter the tournament as world champions. England, even allowing for three or four big name retirements, will still be one of the best three teams in the world.

Actually, don't think I'll bother watching the rest of the World Cup. Roll on February!

[kiwi_the_iwik]

OK Mark - point taken...

Although you have to understand that Auckland has become the Polynesian capital of the World!

England WILL beat France - the French run SO hot and cold that they're either fantastic, or just plain crap...

At least your side has a little consistency - and a great coach in Clive Woodward. That's not to say, of course, that they'll beat the All Blacks...


...'cos they won't.

:D

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
England WILL beat France - the French run SO hot and cold that they're either fantastic, or just plain crap...:D

I think you might be right, the French HATE being beaten by England, and if we can get ahead early, I think the French might just crack wide open.:D

I reckon the Aussies might give you a better match than you think, they have the small matter of a couple of tri-nations defeats to settle... OK, New Zealand are still gonna be in the final, but at what cost?;)

[manitoubalck]

Go Australia.

[748s]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Australia's big problem is George Gregan -

with a bit of luck georgie might fall out of the team bus and do an ankle/knee/leg or all three together. without george we might have a chance of derailing the runaway train that is NZ.

but i can't see anyone stopping NZ they aren't playing well but if they hit form in the WC final they'll beat the french:eek: by 50 points:p

[748s]

crikey 22-10.
sorry kiwi looks like we will be playing the french:eek: next week

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by 748s
but i can't see anyone stopping NZ

Well I did and so did the rest of Australia. Australia 22, Zew Zealand 10. Australia trough to the WC final next week!!!!!!!!!!:D :D :) :p :p ;)

[748s]

Originally posted by manitoubalck
Well I did and so did the rest of Australia.

you might of saw it coming but a lot of us thought we were playing like crap. george looked like he was trapped in the room of mirrors. the AB's looked liked they were building to an unbeatable force. the AB's can take it out on england next thursday in the play-off for third:p if we keep up this form we'll beat the french:eek: in the final.

crikey!

[Mark James]

Well, if Australia can do it then so can the Mighty Whites tomorrow (in the UK, England are actually still 4/6 favourites for the semi; go figure).

It's a bad choking habit that NZ are developing, isn't it?

Australia played a blinder, were deserved winners, and I'm happy for them and happy for Europe: that result *guarantees* that the Big Willy is finally coming up North!

[WinterMute]

Well, that was a result I really didn't expect, I knew the Aussies would pull all the stops out against NZ, but I didn't think the All-blacks would look like rabbits in a trucks headlights, they simply didn't get their game together at all, sporadically they were good, but none of the flashing 3/4 play was in evidence, and the mighty back row had a quiet time.

Couple that with one of the best aggressive defensive displays I've seen in any world cup and the scoreline wasn't such a mystery, I just wonder how much that will take out of the Aussies.

Any news on the prop? Last I heard he was being treated at the stadium and wasn't thought to be in danger. There were a number of Aussie casulaties, even Gregan was limping at the end.

I'm confident that England can take France tomorrow, Hill is back, as is Lewcy, and the desicion to start Catt is a good one, Wilkinson plays better with the knowledge it's not all resting on his shoulders.

That was one of the best games of rugby I've seen, NZ shouldn't be too downheartened, they underperformed angainst a side really hitting it's stride, but they didn't fade or stop trying, all credit to them.

So, Henry V said it all really...

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more..."

...and he was talking about a scrap with the French too.:D :D

[748s]

Originally posted by Mark James
Well, if Australia can do it then so can the Mighty Whites tomorrow (in the UK, England are actually still 4/6 favourites for the semi; go figure).

It's a bad choking habit that NZ are developing, isn't it?

Australia played a blinder, were deserved winners, and I'm happy for them and happy for Europe: that result *guarantees* that the Big Willy is finally coming up North!

good luck tommorrow. i couldn't get much of a bite re my references to the french being in the final;) NZ are'nt having a good time at world cups. the c word comes to mind but i don't want to use it until we get the bledisloe cup off them:p

[misseyshelly]

I cant believe the display this morning, new z had no plan B for the auzzies, the austrlain defence was amazing, my only fear now is that they have played their final already. there was big hits out there and men were going down all round, i think ireland can remain proud of their performance against the wallabies ;)
as for tommorows game, my heart wants france to beat england, my mind tells me that they are the better side but i have this strange gut feeling that england will win it. personally i dont want either france or england to win the world cup. bring on the final ;)

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Aaarrrrgggghhhh!!!


My world is collapsing around me....



"...The horror - the horror..."




:(

[Mark James]

Didn't enjoy the Sunday match either then, Kiwi? Why ever not? Surely no-one's going to be ribbing you on Monday?

What a super, super England display today. It's going to be a fantastically dour final, but I think England will avenge the equally dour 1991 game. Only I won't be getting back the £600 I paid for a ticket for that game : (

I know that the weather helped nullify France's running game today, but the ball they were using was atrocious! Surely Gilbert have a 'wet weather' ball available? The last half hour of the game was farcical.

Oh, and Dominici should have been red-carded for the hack on Robinson. Terrible.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Cheating french bastards...

I agree. Red card him - there was no excuse. AND they made a habit of putting their hands in the ruck. Nasty business, being french...

I vowed on Saturday to NEVER watch another rugby match as long as my arse pointed downwards. Pretty short-lived, eh?

The match today was predictable - Wilkinson played a stormer, the backs performed admirably under adverse conditions, and the forwards drove a nasty pack. All-in-all, they'll dump all over the Aussies next week - as long as they can ring in Elton Flatley and keep Stephen Larkham under control (a real pain for the All Blacks yesterday), they've an excellent chance.

Regardless, the winner will be Rugby.

(How diplomatic!!!)

:rolleyes:

[britboy]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
Regardless, the winner will be Rugby.

(How diplomatic!!!)

:rolleyes:


Well, it's certainly not going to be the All Blacks, is it :p

It is such a relief to see england put on a good performance like then, when required. After their matches so far in this world cup, it seemed like the preassure was getting to them. Maybe they were just saving themselves for the most important matches.

If england win on saturday, beating australia in their own backyard.......:D

[Mark James]

Larkham can disappear under real pressure, and I'm sure England will be at him. If he gets too much clean ball to Tuqiri and Flatley then England will be in trouble. I think England will kick at Rogers and Sailor whenever possible; hope so because I still don't rate either of them as Union players.

Have just spoken to my brother who went to both games (he's been in Sydney nearly 20 years now), and he told me the news is that Ben Darwin can never play again? Terrible if true; at 27 a prop is just warming up.

[WinterMute]

Wilkinson back at something approaching his form last year, Johnson leading with his nose, Catt marshalling a 3/4 line that didn't get to do much but tackle all day, and Richard Hill, like a god amongst mortals in the loose, what a difference he makes to the England forward play, I lost count of the number of times he was first to the breakdown, first in the tackle, getting up off the bottom of the ruck, he made life hell for the French half backs, and with him D'Allaglio and Back didn't let anything go.

I knew the French would get rattled and revert to type, they always do, that late tackle on Wilkinson wasn't in itself a cardable offence, but he'd just been warned, and the trip on Robinson was a nasty reminder of French rugby of old.

I feel a real optimism for England in the final, our pack is in awesome form, and drove the French 8 back on many occasions, Australia have a real prop problem (sorry to hear Darwin is out, but not seriously injured, although a disc accident for a prop is pretty serious isn't it?) and are going to be taken to task by the English front row, plus Larkham has a weakness in clearing his lines. I think we'll see him pinned into his 22 with a lot of high stuff going over him.

Whoever defends the best next saturday will win, Australia showed they have the pace and power in the 3/4s to blow away the best allround team of the last few years, now they have to face the best English team there's ever been.

Do you honestly think Martin Johnson is going to go home without the Webb-Ellis? This is his last chance, it's coming back to dear old Blighty:D

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I dunno - SHOULD I go for the Aussies? Admittedly, there's no love lost between New Zealand and Australia...

But I have the UTMOST respect for (Sir) Clive and his men. Wilkinson has been a true performer all the way through, and Johnson an excellent captain and ambassador to the game.

Screw it - England to win by 18...

[Mark James]

18 points, Kiwi? I'd be happy with that!

I'd be even happier if Australia scored three fantastic unconverted tries, and we slotted six penalties.

The 'Guscott drop goal' Lions/SA match (18-15, 0-3 in tries) remains the best match I've ever attended.

As WinterMute said, Aus have a real propping problem. Given how England went against the lauded French, we should destroy Australia up front.

Oh, but I'm excited now.

[manitoubalck]

I think the final has played right into the organises hands. Aus Vs Eng in the world cup final.

[misseyshelly]

I think Martin Johnson is one of the most dispicable cheating bast**ds in the professional game today. will at least one ref out there please put a stop to his antics, he should be diciplined.

England had a good display, they play clinical sterile rugby, it sure aint pretty or exciting to watch, but it sure is effective. Please let auzzie put a bit of sparkle into the final and come away the winners, for all our sakes.

[whocares]

Originally posted by misseyshelly
England had a good display, they play clinical sterile rugby,

You're still sore at the Six Nations' Final, aren't you? :p


No, you're right, English rugby is boring to watch... But who cares? As long as they win the Final :D

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by misseyshelly
I think Martin Johnson is one of the most dispicable cheating bast**ds in the professional game today. will at least one ref out there please put a stop to his antics, he should be diciplined.

England had a good display, they play clinical sterile rugby, it sure aint pretty or exciting to watch, but it sure is effective. Please let auzzie put a bit of sparkle into the final and come away the winners, for all our sakes.

Hmmm, spot the sore looser...:D ;)

I get very tired of people calling English rugby boring, it certainly isn't boring to me, as a past 3/4 back (many years ago) I had to contend with hours of watching large sweaty forwards grinding through the mud on a Sunday for a rare chance to touch the ball, English winters being what they are.:D

Watching the current English pack at work is to watch a well drilled, professional machine at work, and in the loose, they are playing no differently than any other top-flight pack, they just do it better is all. Sure, Martin Johnstone pushes the envelope at times, but so does EVERY other forward in the modern game, Betsen was so far ahead of the line on occasion on Sunday I though he was going to pull on a white jersey.:eek:

There is nothing sterile about England, their greatest weapon is their heart and bloody-mindedness, they want to win more than anything, and no jibe about "pretty rugby" is going to change that. What is pretty rugby anyway, it's not a pretty game, it's multi-layered and the running game is only one facet, England's approach is a pefect response to the strengths of their own game, and it's going to win them the Webb-Ellis on Saturday.

England isn't just about Wilkinson's boot, that's just the sharp end of a team effort, and it's not the only sharp bit either.

[WinterMute]

I've got a 10 point spread in Englands favour in a low scoring game, both sides to score tries, Australia to score first, Wilkinson to make the difference.

Less than 12 hours to go, it's going to be fine either way:D

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I don't know why - I'm off to the pub across the road to watch the match...

Now, I hope the English CANE the Aussies - that'd put it RIGHT up my soon-to-be-EX wife (an Australian...).

I couldn't bear to see her smug face if they won.

C'mon, Clive's boys. Show them why you invented the game in the FIRST place....

:mad:

PS - I'm still gutted...

...so don't talk to me about it.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[caveman_uk]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:D :D :D :D

[amnesiac1984]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


:D :D :D :D

YAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D :D :D :D

[WinterMute]

Wilko was the difference in the end, what a final that was, after normal time I was sure the Aussies were going to sneak it.

Both teams were excellent, Australia raised their game to challenge right across the field, and England had to produce their best defensive display of the tournament to win it in the end.

I have no voice left from screaming at the box, the dog is cowering in the corner and...

ENGLAND ARE THE WORLD CHAMPIONS!

[whocares]

I have no nails, fingers nor forearms left after that match.:eek:

Damn, that drop-goal finish was a beauty wasn't it? I mean how else can you have a more nerve-wrecking end?

[crap freakboy]

never been into sport, except footie World Cup now and again. So I was surprised when I started watching the Wales vs AllBlacks the other week and found it blooding cracking.
Todays game was..well...VERY bloody cracking, well played by both sides and outstanding nail-biting last couple of minutes. Only live 2 minutes drive from Twickenham so you never know I might experience it 'live' one day.

Oh, what wouldve happened if the score was tied after extra time? Last man standing fist fight?

!!ENGLAND!! (http://www.curryclan.co.uk/)

[WinterMute]

Originally posted by crap freakboy
Only live 2 minutes drive from Twickenham so you never know I might experience it 'live' one day.

Oh, what wouldve happened if the score was tied after extra time? Last man standing fist fight?

!!ENGLAND!! (http://www.curryclan.co.uk/)

Go to Twickers definately, it's a great (if slightly draughty) stadium.

After extra time, there's another 10 min period of "golden score", any points will do, after that a drop goal shoot-out much like penalties, and I'm truly glad it was won in standard time, I hate that golden goal rubbish, and a drop goal shoot-out? Do me a favour, that's no way to win a world cup, I like the Last man standing idea much better.:D

[edesignuk]

England > Australia :p

[James.Paul]

Originally posted by crap freakboy
never been into sport, except footie World Cup now and again. So I was surprised when I started watching the Wales vs AllBlacks the other week and found it blooding cracking.
Todays game was..well...VERY bloody cracking, well played by both sides and outstanding nail-biting last couple of minutes. Only live 2 minutes drive from Twickenham so you never know I might experience it 'live' one day.

Oh, what wouldve happened if the score was tied after extra time? Last man standing fist fight?

!!ENGLAND!! (http://www.curryclan.co.uk/)

It would have gone to another 10 minute period of golden point rugby. First to score wins. If not then it would have been a drop goal shoot out. Should that fail then they go down the more traditional rugby playoff. They would have wheeled out a truck full of 'XXXX', told them to sup and the last man standing wins it for there team.

Anyone watch Rugby League? 3rd test tonight, let's see if we can get another one over the Aussies. Make it a totally bad weekend for them!!!!!

[Mark James]

Another narrow defeat in the League Test I see, James. You're not one of them New Zealand Pauls, are you?!

Have just watched the *proper* rugby again, in full, and it still made me nervous. On another day England could have won that by 20 points; how many times did Dallaglio and Hill take it up to inside 22m, the ball come out quickly, and end up in the hands (or rather, not the hands) of some front five Neanderthal lurking in the centre?

All this and God 10 back at his best for the Gunners. What a day! I'm looking forward to the Sunday papers, oh yes...

[kiwi_the_iwik]

I sat in the pub across the road from my house (just 10 minutes' walk from The Home Of Rugby), and soaked in the atmosphere all morning during the match - one of the greatest cliffhangers I had the privelage to watch.

As an "unobjective bystander" (after Australia bundled out a hapless New Zealand team), I thought the game was ALWAYS in England's control. They played sensibly, with discipline, and with great possession - a surefire way of making certain that the Australians wouldn't rack up the points.

To witness the euphoria in true English style - at a true English venue - was pretty cool...

...I'm glad I didn't decide to stay home to watch it!

Congratulations, and well played! It couldn't have been a better final (unless, of course, it were the All Blacks who were victorious...

Just kidding! Revell in your glory!)

;)

Next prediction?

SIR Clive Woodward
Jonny Wilkinson OBE

[WinterMute]

I watched the whole game again last night, and without the crushing weight of nerves and justifiable hatred of the ref I though both teams were magnificent, many of the handling errors were attributable to the rain, or as Kiwi says, thumb-fingered forwards getting in the way.

Jason Robinson played a blinder, the tackle he made in the dying minutes of regulation was awesome, he accelerated FROM full speed into contact, there was no way he was going to miss, and his speed generally was quite incredible to see.

As a former wing 3/4, Ben Kay's fumble on the line was no less painfull to watch though.

Some of the papers have made the comment that it was a good thing that England won, as the ref would have been in deep ***** over some of those second half desicions, particularly in penalising the English front row, when it was clear that the Aussie front row was distorting the scrum deliberately to prevent clear English domination.

All in all, I'm happy it was a spectacle for the reat of the world to watch, it was an excellent advertisment for the real team game, and I think rugby will benefit enormously from it.

I need about a week to recover, my throat is still raw.

The boys done us proud.

[James.Paul]

Originally posted by Mark James
Another narrow defeat in the League Test I see, James. You're not one of them New Zealand Pauls, are you?!

Have just watched the *proper* rugby again, in full, and it still made me nervous. On another day England could have won that by 20 points; how many times did Dallaglio and Hill take it up to inside 22m, the ball come out quickly, and end up in the hands (or rather, not the hands) of some front five Neanderthal lurking in the centre?

All this and God 10 back at his best for the Gunners. What a day! I'm looking forward to the Sunday papers, oh yes...

I could say yes and you wouldn't know but no i'm not. I'm half jock and half english but I just love Rugby League. Gutted at the 3-0 whitewash, I think we are a match for the aussies but just don't fully concentrate for 80 minutes. We've got the ability. I think they will learn and things will get better.

[MacRAND]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
We'll win - end of story.
:cool: Humbling score wasn't it? :rolleyes: Maddening really.:(

heating french bastards...
I agree. Red card him - there was no excuse. AND they made a habit of putting their hands in the ruck. Nasty business, being French...

Well, at least ENGLAND put the AUSSIES in their proper place.

Rand