FS: Feeler iMac 2.8Ghz 4GB 320GB Harddrive...

[je1ani]

Selling my 24" iMac

[bluecluee]

PM me with your desired price

[icdb]

This seller accepted $1775 from me and failed to deliver this iMac. I am needing to file a claim against her via PayPal. I have two email addresses and a PayPal identity which I'd gladly share if it might help anyone else.

Reported for the protection of fellow forum-users.

[kuebby]

This seller accepted $1775 from me and failed to deliver this iMac. I am needing to file a claim against her via PayPal. I have two email addresses and a PayPal identity which I'd gladly share if it might help anyone else.

Reported for the protection of fellow forum-users.

Not to say that you're being anything less than truthful, but this iMac was only listed yesterday; how could you possibly have received it already?

(Since you paid by PayPal I assumed it was being shipped, as if local pick-up was agreed upon, you would have paid cash, right?)

[techlover828]

Not to say that you're being anything less than truthful, but this iMac was only listed yesterday; how could you possibly have received it already?

(Since you paid by PayPal I assumed it was being shipped, as if local pick-up was agreed upon, you would have paid cash, right?)

could have used paypal and gotten local delivery, thats what it sounds like.

[icdb]

Yes, local delivery—local pickup actually, since I was coming to her chosen location. Of course she agreed to call if any last-minute change in plans. No call & no show.

[techlover828]

Yes, local delivery—local pickup actually, since I was coming to her chosen location. Of course she agreed to call if any last-minute change in plans. No call & no show.

hmm... seems pretty legit, sorry you had problems...

[kuebby]

Yes, local delivery—local pickup actually, since I was coming to her chosen location. Of course she agreed to call if any last-minute change in plans. No call & no show.

Since you paid with PayPal but were using local pickup I'm not sure what kind of buyer protection they offer.

Let's not jump to any community conclusions until we hear something from je1ani.

[RichP]

That really sux if true. So you went to the location and the seller was not there?

I assume you are both in NYC..shame, I would have jumped on this.. its a good deal.

[icdb]

could have used paypal and gotten local delivery, thats what it sounds like.

you'd think that'd be the way of it but she claimed not to be "comfortable" with that much cash. so i proposed to paypal from my iphone in presence of her and the imac. you'd think i'd have gotten the message when she didn't go for that either....

so now i wait up to ten days for paypal to yank my money back.

below is my post to craigslist nyc computers f/s (where i first saw her ad)—

Scammer alert on iMac 2.8ghz seller Kristi West

Reply to: sale-548105838@craigslist.org
Date: 2008-01-22, 5:37PM EST

A seller on this board who uses the identity/email: Jelani Williams je1ani@mac.com

and paypal account: MrOpDe@hotmail.com

where her identity is: Kristi West

accepted a payment of $1775 from me earlier today and didn't show for the delivery appointment.

I am needing to file a claim with PayPal to retrieve the funds.

Beware of crooks, fellow cl'ers!

[RichP]

you'd think that'd be the way of it but she claimed not to be "comfortable" with that much cash. so i proposed to paypal from my iphone in presence of her and the imac. you'd think i'd have gotten the message when she didn't go for that either....

LOL not comfortable with cash.

Best of luck with it! As a word of advice..I always withdraw all money from paypal and make purchases with a credit card through paypal on big items like computers. This way you have an extra level of protection. Paypal will give you the run around, but they are scared of the CC's

EDIT: I do feel something fishy is up though..I dont know if I am sold on this story..the OP has a pretty large post count on here..usually scammers are relatively n00b and post random stuff to get a count up high enough. Just saying...

[icdb]

folks,
quote feature not working under camino here... what should have preceded my last post was this snip:

as if local pick-up was agreed upon, you would have paid cash, right?)

Since you paid with PayPal but were using local pickup I'm not sure what kind of buyer protection they offer.

at least i had the sense to pre-flight this explicitly with paypal over the telephone, and they assured me i would receive my money back in event of no-delivery. i talked to them today after the fact and they said if seller had no case to make i should have the money back within 10 days. will let y'all know...

[marclapierre13]

at least i had the sense to pre-flight this explicitly with paypal over the telephone, and they assured me i would receive my money back in event of no-delivery. i talked to them today after the fact and they said if seller had no case to make i should have the money back within 10 days. will let y'all know...

a) The seller claims they have sold other items on MR, can any one of them jump in with their experiences?
b) it has only been one day, perhaps she has been busy, or something? Wait a few days.
c) you will not get your money back in 10 days. Paypal doesn't work like that. You have to wait 30 days, to make sure it is a no show, and then you have to process a dispute through paypal, which I believe takes 2-4 weeks. Since its local pickup, she will have no proof that it has been sent or anything, so I think you would win the dispute.
d) do you not have her address? since you were picking it up, you should have some sort of address. Meet her, and kick some ass. (first try to be diplomatic though ;))

[techlover828]

a) The seller claims they have sold other items on MR, can any one of them jump in with their experiences?
b) it has only been one day, perhaps she has been busy, or something? Wait a few days.
c) you will not get your money back in 10 days. Paypal doesn't work like that. You have to wait 30 days, to make sure it is a no show, and then you have to process a dispute through paypal, which I believe takes 2-4 weeks. Since its local pickup, she will have no proof that it has been sent or anything, so I think you would win the dispute.
d) do you not have her address? since you were picking it up, you should have some sort of address. Meet her, and kick some ass. (first try to be diplomatic though ;))

more than likely they met at some other location but maybe you would have the address in your paypal receipt.

[icdb]

a) The seller claims they have sold other items on MR, can any one of them jump in with their experiences?
b) it has only been one day, perhaps she has been busy, or something? Wait a few days.
c) you will not get your money back in 10 days. Paypal doesn't work like that. You have to wait 30 days, to make sure it is a no show, and then you have to process a dispute through paypal, which I believe takes 2-4 weeks. Since its local pickup, she will have no proof that it has been sent or anything, so I think you would win the dispute.
d) do you not have her address? since you were picking it up, you should have some sort of address. Meet her, and kick some ass. (first try to be diplomatic though ;))

ok i'll comment where appropriate—
(b) she made a specific appointment and said she'd call if anything "came up." no call, no show, nuf said as far as i'm concerned. if she was "busy" she had no appointment accepting payment for something she agreed to deliver at an agreed time/place to be fitted within her busy schedule. though i did offer her six additional hours within which to deliver the goods before i escalated my paypal "dispute" to a "claim." she didn't choose to answer that email.
(c) just repeating what paypal assured me. typically you can work through a dispute with your seller/buyer for 20 days before escalating to "claim" stage; in this case it's obvious there's no working-through to do. as mentioned the 10-day timeframe assumes no case by opposing party.
(d) no address: don't imagine she'd have been comfortable giving that out any more than accepting cash or transacting business in person... i see this as well past the "try diplomacy" stage. granted there might be some circumstance which would excuse her behavior, such as that she was hit by a truck en-route to the meeting and hasn't regained consciousness since. however what i haven't mentioned yet is that she did email me 21 minutes after our appointed meeting time to say, "i'm in union square now but don't have much time." union square is nearby but not specifically even our arranged place of intersection. so call me impatient but i don't think so.

she had no appointment accepting payment


sorry, getting a little steam-rollered here. s/b: she had no business accepting payment...

[RichP]

so she was in union square just carrying around that machine? that is a bit odd, not like the iMac is a small parcel

[icdb]

so she was in union square just carrying around that machine? that is a bit odd, not like the iMac is a small parcel

not at all clear that's what she in fact was doing. what i said was that she emailed me a statement that she was in union square. she did not say she was in union sq w/ a large parcel, imac or other. apart from whether she had the imac on her i'd say it's questionable whether she was in fact in union sq when she made the written statement that she was.

[je1ani]

lol @ you making an account just to bash me after ONLY 10 HOURS when I was the one who gave you the site name... you're pathetic. I will only do business on eBay now

[icdb]

WHOA WHOA WHOA!!! 1st of all let me just say he filed a complaint within 1 HOUR!!! The agreement was to meet in Union Square for the iMac today at 12pm which he never showed nor did he call me... I get home and find out he is filing a complaint... I am refunding him.

the agreement was to meet in front of union sq cafe at 12pm. union square cafe is not union square. the agreement was that a phone call would be made prior to 12pm if that appointment was not able to be made by either party. i was there; you were not.

i will happily share the entire email correspondence leading up to this no-show by seller. i believe extreme caution should be exercised by all with her prospectively.

lol @ you making an account just to bash me after ONLY 10 HOURS when I was the one who gave you the site name... you're pathetic. I will only do business on eBay now

might serve you to do your homework, girl, before lol'ing—

my account here pre-dates this incident by some time.
-c

interesting. seems the post by je1ani which i quote in my next-to-last post (starting w/ "whoa whoa...") has disappeared from my web page. not to get into conspiracy theories here but any ideas how come? she does claim to be (in the act of) refunding me in the disappeared post...

i'll keep y'all posted on all developments.

cheers meantime.

[marclapierre13]

Sounds like a case of miscommunication. Try to get it settled, and then file a dispute. You clearly gave her less than 1 day to even reply. If she says she well be refunding you thats all thats important. I understand your fear, it is a lot of money, but it just goes to show what can happen, so stay safe everyone when buying something like this over the internet.

[techlover828]

it seems that icdb jumped to conclusions, you have to give at least a day out of courtesy for the seller to respond.

[Neutral Gamer]

it seems that icdb jumped to conclusions, you have to give at least a day out of courtesy for the seller to respond.

This is a hard one, because we essentially have one person's statement over another:

IF icdb is telling us the truth about:
she claimed not to be "comfortable" with that much cash. so i proposed to paypal from my iphone in presence of her and the imac. you'd think i'd have gotten the message when she didn't go for that either....

then it does indeed seem strange why je1ani was so reluctant to go with the cash or Paypal options.

Also, if the e-mail (I'd love to see a copy) does state they were supposed to meet up on the day icdb went down then it is clearly je1ani's fault. I mean if you've already paid money and the person doesn't show up on the agreed date or phones, wouldn't you also be worried? They could've fled to another country for all you know, in that case giving a day out of courtesy would just help with je1ani's getaway to Mexico! :D

Of course IF je1ani is telling the truth and it was icdb who got the wrong day then icdb's reaction is indeed a little strong.

Who to trust? That is the question. One thing's for sure though, and that's that things seem to have gotten slight out of hand ... :rolleyes:

[icdb]

Ladies & Gentlemen,
Hope I'm not being too rash or precipitous to report that nothing's happened since last night, that is to say specifically: no refund from seller in spite of her promise last night (actual post mysteriously removed but my quote of it, and another's comment on it, remain).

As for the idea of miscommunication or "wrong day", yeah right. I PayPal'd seller exactly 1.5hrs prior to the appointment we'd arranged in email. I reiterated those time/place coordinates in the note which accompanied my payment. It is quite a stretch to interpret that the seller was not completely aware of where and when she was supposed to deliver.

I'm attaching my PayPal receipt (paypal_receipt.pdf) which contains this note for all to see. I will ask the forum administrator about the removed post privately unless he/she cares to comment herein.

Thanks.

[woods1110]

Ladies & Gentlemen,
Hope I'm not being too rash or precipitous to report that nothing's happened since last night, that is to say specifically: no refund from seller in spite of her promise last night (actual post mysteriously removed but my quote of it, and another's comment on it, remain).

As for the idea of miscommunication or "wrong day", yeah right. I PayPal'd seller exactly 1.5hrs prior to the appointment we'd arranged in email. I reiterated those time/place coordinates in the note which accompanied my payment. It is quite a stretch to interpret that the seller was not completely aware of where and when she was supposed to deliver.

I'm attaching my PayPal receipt (paypal_receipt.pdf) which contains this note for all to see. I will ask the forum administrator about the removed post privately unless he/she cares to comment herein.

Thanks.

I think you need to check her other thread a couple of threads down. seems like she has scammed someone else....

[taylorwilsdon]

Ladies & Gentlemen,
Hope I'm not being too rash or precipitous to report that nothing's happened since last night, that is to say specifically: no refund from seller in spite of her promise last night (actual post mysteriously removed but my quote of it, and another's comment on it, remain).

As for the idea of miscommunication or "wrong day", yeah right. I PayPal'd seller exactly 1.5hrs prior to the appointment we'd arranged in email. I reiterated those time/place coordinates in the note which accompanied my payment. It is quite a stretch to interpret that the seller was not completely aware of where and when she was supposed to deliver.

I'm attaching my PayPal receipt (paypal_receipt.pdf) which contains this note for all to see. I will ask the forum administrator about the removed post privately unless he/she cares to comment herein.

Thanks.

Those instructions look extremely specific. I can't see how she can claim you were in the wrong.

[kellen]

Good luck getting your money back. Next time I would recommend paying with a CC, easier to dispute the charges. Hindsight 20/20, but best of luck!

[marclapierre13]

Lets see if he gets his money back.
She said she was refunding it right away.

Also please remove that receipt. It contains your address and personal info, thats not wise to just display to everyone.

[icdb]

Lets see if he gets his money back.
She said she was refunding it right away.

Also please remove that receipt. It contains your address and personal info, thats not wise to just display to everyone.

What she says and what she does = two very divergent things, as we're learning... The removal of the post in which she promises to refund me remains a mystery. From what I read post-removal can only be accomplished by an admin. Reason for that, anyone please? Who knows, I might need to subpoena that post for evidence to PayPal....

I believe that in addition to other appropriate penalties this individual should be banned from this forum. In her one (standing) post to this thread she acknowledges referring me to the fraudulent ad which initiated this thread. If an administrator here needs any input from me not already provided I'd be happy to supply it.

Thanks for the advisory about removing the PayPal receipt. I've put a rev2 up instead (paypal_receipt2.pdf) with personal info blurred-out but leaving other specs (time of payment, note etc) intact.

[marclapierre13]

What she says and what she does = two very divergent things, as we're learning... The removal of the post in which she promises to refund me remains a mystery. From what I read post-removal can only be accomplished by an admin. Reason for that, anyone please? Who knows, I might need to subpoena that post for evidence to PayPal....

I believe that in addition to other appropriate penalties this individual should be banned from this forum. In her one (standing) post to this thread she acknowledges referring me to the fraudulent ad which initiated this thread. If an administrator here needs any input from me not already provided I'd be happy to supply it.

Thanks for the advisory about removing the PayPal receipt. I've put a rev2 up instead (paypal_receipt2.pdf) with personal info blurred-out but leaving other specs (time of payment, note etc) intact.

No problem.
Your quote and reply was not deleted, it was "merged" with your other post

"Last edited by AmbitiousLemon : Yesterday at 09:05 PM. Reason: Post Merge: Please use the multi-quote tool or edit your original post rather than posting consecutively."

[icdb]

No problem.
Your quote and reply was not deleted, it was "merged" with your other post

"Last edited by AmbitiousLemon : Yesterday at 09:05 PM. Reason: Post Merge: Please use the multi-quote tool or edit your original post rather than posting consecutively."

I'm not claiming that my quote and reply was deleted: rather, that a post by je1ani was.

Look at my post #21 in this thread. The original post by je1ani which I quote (first of two quotes in my post) no longer appears in this thread. Apparently it was removed by an admin. I'm curious to learn why this happened. Anybody?

[techlover828]

I'm not claiming that my quote and reply was deleted: rather, that a post by je1ani was.

Look at my post #21 in this thread. The original post by je1ani which I quote (first of two quotes in my post) no longer appears in this thread. Apparently it was removed by an admin. I'm curious to learn why this happened. Anybody?

maybe she edited it to nothing and then a mod deleted it? I don't think its a huge deal.

[icdb]

maybe she edited it to nothing and then a mod deleted it? I don't think its a huge deal.

At a minimum it's provocative considering that that's the post in which she promised to refund me—which she still hasn't done approaching 24 hours later.

[Neutral Gamer]

At a minimum it's provocative considering that that's the post in which she promised to refund me—which she still hasn't done approaching 24 hours later.

Don't worry my friend; there's a few of us who saw je1ani's post before it was removed so whenever you decide to go to court I'll happily hop on the plane, cross the Atlantic and appear as a witness :D. Seriously though it wasn't just you who saw je1ani's post so we could back you up.

But I think her post was deleted accidentally. If I remember correctly she originally posted two concurrently and an admin must've merged the two but accidentally deleted the first part of it.

Funny how je1ani hasn't replied to this thread or contacted you since her post yesterday ...

[techlover828]

mods care to jump in?

[Neutral Gamer]

mods care to jump in?

If you want to contact the mods simply click the little warning sign on your post and report what the problem is. That'll get their attention ...

[icdb]

Another whole day has passed and still no refund, no new post by or contact from je1ani or contact by je1ani to PayPal. Hmmm. Maybe she's just been busy? I don't want to jump to conclusions and make the paranoid assumption that I'm dealing with a crook here, after all...

I'm attaching a screen shot i took moments ago (claim_status.png) showing PayPal claim status (includes desktop clock showing time of capture). For those who don't choose to open this the part of interest, under "Status" heading reads "Awaiting other party's response."

Now I'll try contacting Admins to see about my concerns not so far addressed here.

[techlover828]

Another whole day has passed and still no refund, no new post by or contact from je1ani or contact by je1ani to PayPal. Hmmm. Maybe she's just been busy? I don't want to jump to conclusions and make the paranoid assumption that I'm dealing with a crook here, after all...

I'm attaching a screen shot i took moments ago (claim_status.png) showing PayPal claim status (includes desktop clock showing time of capture). For those who don't choose to open this the part of interest, under "Status" heading reads "Awaiting other party's response."

Now I'll try contacting Admins to see about my concerns not so far addressed here.

well she is not that busy, online this afternoon..

http://ponkan.quickshareit.com/share/picture1cbd6d.png

[icdb]

well she is not that busy, online this afternoon..



I meant that sarcastically as a way of ribbing those who thought I had over-reacted to seller's no-show...

Remember, almost 48hrs ago je1ani stated in a post, "I am refunding him." Not a word since.

[techlover828]

I meant that sarcastically as a way of ribbing those who thought I had over-reacted to seller's no-show...

Remember, almost 48hrs ago je1ani stated in a post, "I am refunding him." Not a word since.

yep, looks like a scam, sorry man, hope you get your money back!

[Neutral Gamer]

Yep, I've also noticed that je1ani's been online at various times over the last couple of days but appears not to want to show herself in this thread again.

I personally ran into je1ani on these forums about a month ago and when I say ran into, I mean argued with. Believe me, I'm not her (still can't believe she's a girl) biggest fan and this whole incident, with her reputation being slowly ruined, is giving me intense pleasure! :D

But seriously, icdb, I'm sure PayPal will do the right thing and you'll get your money back - I hope it all works out.

In the meantime though I was going through her posts and found her "Ultimate Guide to craigslist". She posted it on the 9th January but edited her post and deleted all the content on the 15th. Maybe she didn't want potential buyers to see it? Thankfully though Google kept a cache of it and I've attached it as a text file. :)

Here's a couple of interesting quotes from it:

Since September 28th I have been buying and selling Macs all over the bay area making around $2000 in 3 months... Not bad for a 19 year old who doesn't work :p

Hmmm, I'm sure the IRS would be interested in that. Especially as she used to have as her occuptation on her profile as "Unemployed Douche Bag" which coincedentally she seems to have only got rid of in the last day or so!

Or how about this one:

The bay area is two hours from my house to I usually have a backup in case the deal doesn't fall through. This move bailed me out twice. Sometimes I sell and buy in the same night. :D

Looks like this girl really likes to keep her options and seems to trade machines a LOT.

Anyway, just thought I'd share that with you.
Cheers :)

[icdb]

Yep, I've also noticed that je1ani's been online at various times over the last couple of days but appears not to want to show herself in this thread again.

I personally ran into je1ani on these forums about a month ago and when I say ran into, I mean argued with. Believe me, I'm not her (still can't believe she's a girl) biggest fan and this whole incident, with her reputation being slowly ruined, is giving me intense pleasure! :D

But seriously, icdb, I'm sure PayPal will do the right thing and you'll get your money back - I hope it all works out.

In the meantime though I was going through her posts and found her "Ultimate Guide to craigslist". She posted it on the 9th January but edited her post and deleted all the content on the 15th. Maybe she didn't want potential buyers to see it? Thankfully though Google kept a cache of it and I've attached it as a text file. :)

Here's a couple of interesting quotes from it:



Hmmm, I'm sure the IRS would be interested in that. Especially as she used to have as her occuptation on her profile as "Unemployed Douche Bag" which coincedentally she seems to have only got rid of in the last day or so!

Or how about this one:



Looks like this girl really likes to keep her options and seems to trade machines a LOT.

Anyway, just thought I'd share that with you.
Cheers :)

Hey Neutral Gamer,
Many thanks for your research! Sacramento, SF Bay area huh? Remember, she advertised in Craigslist Manhattan (where she represented herself as being "a couple blocks down from Union Square"). Looks like we have traffiking across state lines, making this a federal offense. Hello FBI... This bird could be a jail-bird before long.

[techlover828]

haha this thread is kind of getting ridiculous.

[Nichod]

I think giving everything a little more time would be appropriate. Its entirely possible that since this is a 19 year old that she is afraid a bit from all the attention this has been getting. And if she does buy and sell frequently, its possible she used the money from this transaction to buy another system. Perhaps she is just waiting to have the funds to pay back on this deal?

All I'm saying is people make stupid mistakes. You never know. Its only been a few days, so perhaps this will end up being worked out peacefully. I do wish you the best of luck. I'm not sure what paypal can do for you on this. Maybe the mods should lock this thread? Hate to see the market place turn into a back and forth scam discussion.

[icdb]

haha this thread is kind of getting ridiculous.

I have no idea what you mean by that. Kindly say more. As the victim of this fraud I take it very seriously. That should be obvious. As a potential victim I would expect you to as well.

An injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
—MLK

I think giving everything a little more time would be appropriate. Its entirely possible that since this is a 19 year old that she is afraid a bit from all the attention this has been getting. And if she does buy and sell frequently, its possible she used the money from this transaction to buy another system. Perhaps she is just waiting to have the funds to pay back on this deal?

All I'm saying is people make stupid mistakes. You never know. Its only been a few days, so perhaps this will end up being worked out peacefully. I do wish you the best of luck. I'm not sure what paypal can do for you on this. Maybe the mods should lock this thread? Hate to see the market place turn into a back and forth scam discussion.

I can forgive a stupid mistake—if it's acknowledged and accounted for. Let's hear a apology with formally-stated agreement to pay me interest on my payment + some penalty for the time I took to meet the apppointment she fraudulently set up (from across the country it sounds like)—and I won't call the FBI in. Fair enough?

I never agreed to this seller "borrowing" my money to fund her business, as you suggest she may have done. How would you like to be lending out money on these duplicitous terms?

[Neutral Gamer]

Maybe the mods should lock this thread? Hate to see the market place turn into a back and forth scam discussion.

Come on ... we're all helping icdb out and I'm gathering evidence for his potential upcoming legal case. I'm no US law expert ... but I reckon 5-7 years, out in 3 for good behaviour?

Think about it. This could be the first time MacRumors' users come together and send one of their own to prison - that's what I call grassroots justice!

But seriously now, and with tongue firmly OUT of cheek, surely if, as you say, Paypal can't do anything for icdb, then we're the only ones left. And if anything or anyone should be locked or banned it should be je1ani for not replying or offering any updates on the refund. In fact the mods should contact her and force her to reply.

In fact, I'm gonna contact the mods right now and see what they have to say ... :)

[Nichod]

I can forgive a stupid mistake—if it's acknowledged and accounted for. Let's hear a apology with formally-stated agreement to pay me interest on my payment + some penalty for the time I took to meet the apppointment she fraudulently set up (from across the country it sounds like)—and I won't call the FBI in. Fair enough?

I never agreed to this seller "borrowing" my money to fund her business, as you suggest she may have done. How would you like to be lending out money on these duplicitous terms?

How would a 19 year old react to a threat to call the FBI? Seriously. Thats going a bit over the top. Request a refund of payment from paypal and go from there. Were you as aggressive as you are now when you emailed her about not showing up? Its possible you scared her enough that she is avoiding contact.

All I'm saying is calming down and dealing with it less aggressively.

[icdb]

How would a 19 year old react to a threat to call the FBI? Seriously. Thats going a bit over the top. Request a refund of payment from paypal and go from there. Were you as aggressive as you are now when you emailed her about not showing up? Its possible you scared her enough that she is avoiding contact.

All I'm saying is calming down and dealing with it less aggressively.

Look, the only "over-the-top" part of this is a seller deliberately defrauding a buyer using the schemes she did. Any—repeat: any means of addressing and counterpoising that act of extremism are entirely appropriate. I will do whatever it takes to redress this injury.

Ever heard of the syndrome of hostages sympathizing with their hostage-takers? I hear echoes in your softness toward the perpetrator here. The essential fact is not my aggressive response to her action but her irresponsible, deceptive and criminal action itself.

[liquidh2o]

He clearly got scammed. je1ani lives in CA and pretended to be from NY to scam someone out of money.

Oh yeah, and she is a he. Forwarding all info i found on this tard to the OP

[v-ault]

http://myspace.com/je1ani

that's the scammer

I've saved a photo of him in case icdb ever needs it

This seems to be his girlfriend here: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=76370814

He made a video of her here with iMovie: http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-e3bRxjlpM

The girl's name is Leana Chan from Elks Grove (near Sacramento)

The scammer's name, pretending to be a girl, is jelani williams (he's half black).

The scammer goes to Cosumnes River College.

From his myspace page My name is jelani williams and I am an extremely lazy individual who does not care about anything.

The guy seems like a nihilist. AKA someone wouldn't mind scamming.


Here's a photo of him: http://ponkan.quickshareit.com/share/l_2e7d89314cbd7d8ada6d316.jpg

Photo of his friend/girlfriend http://citron.quickshareit.com/share/l_0717f50fe643d8118053a36.jpg

This may seem like too much, but the marketplace has been good to me. I want to keep this marketplace running smoothly. We all have a responsibility to make sure it's fine.

[CP1091]

Okay, now I regret what I said earlier.

icdb, I hope things work out for you, and I now understand even more how you got very aggravated. Sorry.. :o

[Neutral Gamer]

Wow v-ault, I don't know what to say, if that's the same je1ani we're talking about then nice work my friend! Great to see MacRumors members helping each other out.

je1ani's actually a guy now? icdb, did you ever speak to him/her on the phone to confirm?

What I love from his MySpace bio though is:
Occupation: Hustler

What else needs to be said? :eek:
Officers, get that prison cell ready and mods, get that banning order ready, it's time for justice ...

[madfresh]

One more thing to add...GamerTag=je1ani337

[icdb]

Hey guys & gals—
Many many thanks!—I'm so touched and appreciative of this strong display of legwork/research and eventual solidarity! Starting with Neutral Gamer and coming down the stretch with liquidh2o who messaged me privately and v-ault who put the icing on the cake!

Be it noted that the girl/boy confusion starts with her/his identification as a "Kristi West" within PayPal.

I'm very buoyed by your support and look forward to reporting developments as they occur, tomorrow and onward.

Ex pluribus unum!

[v-ault]

http://ponkan.quickshareit.com/share/peood4eaf1.gif

Take a look at what a google search gave me

[icdb]

http://ponkan.quickshareit.com/share/peood4eaf1.gif

Take a look at what a google search gave me

hey v-ault,
indeed! i posted that after the defraud-fact. remember, there were two enticement-advertisements brought to my attention for the imac in question: (1) craigslist nyc; and (2) macrumors marketplace. the macrumors ad by the seller her... er, himself.

unfortunately craigslist has low tolerance for these scammer alerts and the two i've put up have been flagged in short order. but looks like my authorship.

cf my post #10 in this thread which copies the whole cl post i twice put up.

[v-ault]

ICDB, why don't you contact your bank? Tell them what happened and they'll force a chargeback. Paypal can't do anything once the bank initiates it and je1ani's account will have a negative balance.

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:9MvJ7O1Wj2oJ:forums.macrumors.com/member.php%3Faction%3Dgetinfo%26userid%3D126909+jelanix5%40msn.com&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

That's Je1ani's old macrumors page.

It clearly says:

Age:
19
Computer:
See sig
Location:
Elk Grove, CA
Occupation:
Unemployed Douche Bag
Song Recs:
0


And, the email, jelanix5@msn.com, leads to the myspace page I posted earlier.

[je1ani]

wow you don't post and you're quickly bombarded with one sided evidence. Posting "my personal information" cute.

ICDB, why don't you contact your bank? Tell them what happened and they'll force a chargeback. Paypal can't do anything once the bank initiates it and je1ani's account will have a negative balance.
It was 1 day my balance is $0

I think giving everything a little more time would be appropriate. Its entirely possible that since this is a 19 year old that she is afraid a bit from all the attention this has been getting. And if she does buy and sell frequently, its possible she used the money from this transaction to buy another system. Perhaps she is just waiting to have the funds to pay back on this deal?

All I'm saying is people make stupid mistakes. You never know. Its only been a few days, so perhaps this will end up being worked out peacefully. I do wish you the best of luck. I'm not sure what paypal can do for you on this. Maybe the mods should lock this thread? Hate to see the market place turn into a back and forth scam discussion.

Thank the **** christ somebody who would reason. It was a drop shipment gone bad. I had somebody to meet you but they never showed. You know what at this point what's the point of explaining? People are obviously quick to assume fraud AFTER 2 DAYS.

One more thing to add...GamerTag=je1ani337

if anyone wants to play some Halo 3 :D

[v-ault]

wow you don't post and you're quickly bombarded with one sided evidence. Posting "my personal information" cute.

Why don't you say anything of any substance for a change besides acting like an *******? All you do is say ******** like"I've done business for many years" ****. You're 19, have no job, and are immature. Stop ********ting and refund the guy his money so all this will go away.

I'm not gonna just stand by and watch a guy get scammed out of 1.7k, especially on a site that I use. This is a forum with a marketplace, not an official company like ebay, so we all have to chip in and help.

And if it was a drop gone bad, what was your iMac doing doing in NY? You don't live in NY.
Did you think he meant Union Square in SF?

It was 1 day my balance is $0



Not if the bank initiates a chargeback. Paypal will put your account in negative 1.7k balance and you will owe that money to paypal. Paypal will be forced to pay back ICDB with their own funds if the bank forces a chargeback. You will be in debt of 1.7k to paypal with debt collection agencies all over your ass.

[firstapple]

People are trying to help out a forum member that feels as though she got scammed. Calling someone a "retard", you really are 19 so at least that wasn't a lie. I would say refund the money as quickly as you can, since obviously you scammed this person since you live in California (and I know this because I have a PM from you a few weeks back where you wanted to sell me a black macbook and shipping was from CA).

A lot of facts prove that you are wrong here, and that you scammed this person. Very surprised mods haven't jumped in yet, but I am sure they are investigating as well.

Good luck to ICDB in getting her money back! And if it was a "drop shipment" was the buyer aware of this??

[je1ani]

I mean if I really wanted to scam this person I could send a letter marked with his zip code and I would win the dispute in paypal no question but I am not!! I have a 2 year account on paypalsucks.com and I hate them with a passion. The deal was for me to front a guy $1500 on my mom's account and he would give the iMac to the buyer Chris for $1775. Like I said a drop shipment gone bad. Chris made zero efforts to email me NONE. And insisted on trying to "expose me." if you have bought from me on here on craigslist please vouch for me as this is ridiculous.

[davedecay]

So J--- are you a guy or girl, and what is your real name, if you want to clear it up?

[Neutral Gamer]

It was a drop shipment gone bad. I had somebody to meet you but they never showed. You know what at this point what's the point of explaining? People are obviously quick to assume fraud AFTER 2 DAYS.

Why didn't you say that in the first place then? Instead you put the whole blame on icdb. If you had actually explained to us what had happened then we wouldn't have jumped to conclusions.

But by not responding, despite seeing how icdb was clearly panicking, you simply added fuel to the fire and naturally people assumed the worst. And, yeah what's with this girl/guy business?

[je1ani]

Not if the bank initiates a chargeback. Paypal will put your account in negative 1.7k balance and you will owe that money to paypal. Paypal will be forced to pay back ICDB with their own funds if the bank forces a chargeback. You will be in debt of 1.7k to paypal with debt collection agencies all over your ass.

Wrong. The money the buyer sent was reversed within 1 HOUR. You more than anybody should know that as you're so well inclined to what happened here. It takes 3-4 days for somebody with withdraw money it would be impossible for me to use the funds. His chargeback will give him his money but paypal will have to eat it. The collection agency (IC Systems) Is nothing more than a front. They have 0 actual power. I am a looong time paypalsucks member so I know the ins and outs of everything. If I was looking for a scam 1. I would've not linked him to this post.
2. I wouldn't use my real name ie my main email je1ani@mac.com i've had since 2005

I did not intend or fraud him at all.. I made a stupid mistake drop shipping and I will eat it.

[firstapple]

Also, is this iMac actually your iMac as you quoted in the original post, or just another good deal you found on Craigslist and tried to make a quick profit on it?

Also, if the buyer doesn't know who they were meeting something seriously could have gone wrong. I mean, they thought they would be meeting up with you, but instead someone completely different who they had not been in contact with?? Very scary for the buyer in my opinion!

[v-ault]

I mean if I really wanted to scam this person I could send a letter marked with his zip code and I would win the dispute in paypal no question but I am not!! I have a 2 year account on paypalsucks.com and I hate them with a passion. The deal was for me to front a guy $1500 on my mom's account and he would give the iMac to the buyer Chris for $1775. Like I said a drop shipment gone bad. Chris made zero efforts to email me NONE. And insisted on trying to "expose me." if you have bought from me on here on craigslist please vouch for me as this is ridiculous.


You shouldn't sell items like that in the first place. You shouldn't sell stuff unless you can guarantee 100% that it can be delivered.

[je1ani]

Why didn't you say that in the first place then? Instead you put the whole blame on icdb. If you had actually explained to us what had happened then we wouldn't have jumped to conclusions.

But by not responding, despite seeing how icdb was clearly panicking, you simply added fuel to the fire and naturally people assumed the worst. And, yeah what's with this girl/guy business?

Because it was noone else's business besides mine and Christophers. This is two days after the incident. I have a temporary hold on his $1775.

Also, is this iMac actually your iMac as you quoted in the original post, or just another good deal you found on Craigslist and tried to make a quick profit on it?

Also, if the buyer doesn't know who they were meeting something seriously could have gone wrong. I mean, they thought they would be meeting up with you, but instead someone completely different who they had not been in contact with?? Very scary for the buyer in my opinion!

I gave both a location and time. I mean please look at my record before jumping to conclusions? eh?

[v-ault]

Wrong. The money the buyer sent was reversed within 1 HOUR. You more than anybody should know that as you're so well inclined to what happened here. It takes 3-4 days for somebody with withdraw money it would be impossible for me to use the funds. His chargeback will give him his money but paypal will have to eat it. The collection agency (IC Systems) Is nothing more than a front. They have 0 actual power. I am a looong time paypalsucks member so I know the ins and outs of everything. If I was looking for a scam 1. I would've not linked him to this post.
2. I wouldn't use my real name ie my main email je1ani@mac.com i've had since 2005

I did not intend or fraud him at all.. I made a stupid mistake drop shipping and I will eat it.

The buyer never said the money was reversed. He said he's trying to get his money back.

[je1ani]

The buyer never said the money was reversed. He said he's trying to get his money back.

EXACTLY paypal "temporarily" holds the money in a dispute in which neither have access to it. Also I transferred from CRC to a 4 year this spring. Oh yeah who's the kid messaging me on AIM with the insults? That's nice taking the high road eh?

[v-ault]

EXACTLY paypal "temporarily" holds the money in a dispute in which neither have access to it. Also I transferred from CRC to a 4 year. Yay me?

Ok, good. Sorry. But you type in a very condescending way, and made yourself seem like someone who'd scam (i believe page 2).

If you had just posted what happened here and informed the buyer, everything would have been fine.

Communication is key.

[idyll]

Hope everything is ok.. let me know if you got my PM je1ani?

[je1ani]

Ok, good. Sorry. But you type in a very condescending way, and made yourself seem like someone who'd scam (i believe page 2).

If you had just posted what happened here and informed the buyer, everything would have been fine.

Communication is key.
Exactly and he emailed me how many times? 0 I mean if you really think I am just a scammer I can email you phone numbers of people who i've done business with face to face all over bay area

Hope everything is ok.. let me know if you got my PM je1ani?

Yes I received it.

[v-ault]

Exactly and he emailed me how many times? 0

Well, he probably thought posting here was good enough. You should have emailed him and gave him a heads up. 1.7k doesn't grow on trees and I'd be worried, too.

[idyll]

Awesome.. was getting a little worried here due to this thread but I'm not one to point fingers. :)

I feel a little better now to see you come back and respond. Shoot me a pm letting me know when you plan to ship the item and then when I can expect it if you don't mind. Sorry if I constantly keep bugging you about it.. Thanks!

[liquidh2o]

Thank the **** christ somebody who would reason. It was a drop shipment gone bad. I had somebody to meet you but they never showed. You know what at this point what's the point of explaining? People are obviously quick to assume fraud AFTER 2 DAYS.



Two things: how was a "drop shipment" even possible if you were to deliver the imac the same day an agreement/payment was made?

The other thing being you said you had someone to meet him but they never showed, why email him saying you're in Union Square then?

You don't lie very well

[je1ani]

Two things: how was a "drop shipment" even possible if you two came to an agreement/payment the same day the imac was supposed to be delivered in person?

The other thing being you said you had someone to meet him but they never showed, why email him saying you're in Union Square then?

You don't lie very well
You don't comprehend very well. If anyone/ mods have any questions for me my aim is je1ani.

[liquidh2o]

You don't comprehend very well. If anyone/ mods have any questions for me my aim is je1ani.

icdb has already explained the situation and gave the details, you're now trying to backpedal. You claim you're a girl, you claim you are going to meet him at the union square cafe. He pays you the same day that you arrange to meet up, how does a "drop shipment" get there that fast in this scenario? Wouldn't you know by then if the imac would not make it in time?

Moving on... icdb shows up at the union square cafe, he waits... and waits... gets an email about 20 mins later saying "I'm at union square, I don't see you, I have to hurry"... but you say your guy never showed up, at all. So which is it?

You are clearly the one who can't comprehend, and can't lie to save your skin. I know why you'd come back here and try to defend yourself, because you have another deal w/ a member on this board.

Going back through your posts in this forum there's little to suggest you've made an actual successful transaction on the Marketplace. You should be banned from here, end of story.

[Rower_CPU]

FYI everyone - please review the Marketplace Rules (http://guides.macrumors.com/Help:Marketplace_Rules)

Our jobs as mods is not to police the full details of transactions in here, but we do take behavior that violates the marketplace and general forum rules seriously. Everyone stop with the insults and childish behavior and wrap up this transaction ASAP.

For the parties involved please work it on your own.

For those concerned of scamming in general in this forum, send it to the mod staff via the contact us form (http://forums.macrumors.com/sendmessage.php).

[je1ani]

icdb has already explained the situation and gave the details, you're now trying to backpedal. You claim you're a girl, you claim you are going to meet him at the union square cafe. He pays you the same day that you arrange to meet up, how does a "drop shipment" get there that fast in this scenario? Wouldn't you know by then if the imac would not make it in time?

Moving on... icdb shows up at the union square cafe, he waits... and waits... gets an email about 20 mins later saying "I'm at union square, I don't see you, I have to hurry"... but you say your guy never showed up, at all. So which is it?

You are clearly the one who can't comprehend, and can't lie to save your skin. I know why you'd come back here and try to defend yourself, because you have another deal w/ a member on this board.

Going back through your posts in this forum there's little to suggest you've made an actual successful transaction on the Marketplace. You should be banned from here, end of story.
I claimed I was a female? Where? Clearly you're making stuff up. You have nothing invested in this so it's easy just to sit behind your computer to instigate for your own entertainment. The other buyer paid me via MO, which offers less protection than paypal so there goes your little theory of me trying to save myself. Also what would banning me get you?

[liquidh2o]

Request to mods: It would be worthwhile to add to the rules that a seller cannot sell an item that he does not physically have in his possession. It's a common rule used in some of the bigger online classified forums.

[taylorwilsdon]

Request to mods: It would be worthwhile to add to the rules that a seller cannot sell an item that he does not physically have in his possession. It's a common rule used in some of the bigger online classified forums.

As far as I know, its a rule here. I've seen threads closed because people were selling things for "friends"

[Rower_CPU]

Request to mods: It would be worthwhile to add to the rules that a seller cannot sell an item that he does not physically have in his possession. It's a common rule used in some of the bigger online classified forums.

General Rules
2. Ownership. The Marketplace is for personal sales/trades of items owned by the members involved. You may not buy, sell, or trade on behalf of others.

Technically, this sale should not have taken place as a "drop shipment", but since those details were never posted in the tread it's a strictly caveat emptor situation.

Please direct further comments elsewhere and let the buyer/seller work out this transaction.

je1ani - Quit arguing/instigating things with people not involved in the sale. Work it out with icdb and move on. Thanks.

[je1ani]

I said I was there to make sure he was there and in case anything came up.

[WildCowboy]

I'm going to close this thread for now. The only two people who need to be talking to resolve this situation are je1ani and icdb. If anyone would like to share information with one or both of the parties, feel free to contact them privately. But please keep things civil...our only goal here right now is see this through to its resolution.

I have been in touch with both parties, and I ask that both of you continue to keep me informed on your progress.

[icdb]

Greetings marketplace folks,
Moderator WildCowboy has re-opened this thread partly or wholly so that I can appeal for help getting satisfaction from our former member (now banned) named je1ani.

As of Saturday PayPal is suddenly singing a different tune vs the assurances of the previous 11 days (including in advance of making this payment): instead of guaranteeing that my $1775 payment would be refunded if seller defaulted & had no case (since after all the payment never would have left PayPal hands) now they're saying that seller managed to withdraw the payment before I initiated the dispute and that they therefore are only able to make a "best effort" recovery. Translation: they might not be able to get me my money back after all. Any reason they didn't say that when I explicitly asked, beforehand, if there was any contingency thanks to which my payment might end up not being refundable? Profuse apologies but PayPal can't be responsible for "miscommunication."

I am of course protesting this as loudly as possible, but it looks like I may need to hunt-down je1ani myself (that is with appropriate assistance). Could anyone who's done business with him here please contact me via PM? Or for that matter anyone who has helpful ideas but who hasn't dealt with him directly? I'd prefer to keep the conversations hidden from his ears since even though banned from selling/posting he can still read this thread. I've got some good leads already thanks to y'all but more = merrier. ;)

Thanks in advance.
–icdb

[SthrnCmfrtr]

Man, that's crap.

I see you paid using a bank account. Sadly, most banks don't seem to protect their customers from fraud the way credit card companies do...

You might try small claims court.

[marclapierre13]

I believe Jenani or w/e said that she/he/it withdrew the funds so that they had $0 in the account. If they withdrew the funds, they can only do so much to reclaim it. What they WILL do, IF you were covered by paypals protection thingy, is once you open a claim, and win, you will get some of the money back. (I did this recently, I lost $100, and opened up a claim, and got $84 back)

[icdb]

This part adds a whole new layer of intrigue/vomit.

1. I never would have made the payment without PayPal's unambiguous assurance that I'd get refunded if item wasn't delivered.
2. Clearly there's more than "miscommunication" going on here. It wasn't just before making payment but twice more over the 11 days following (in tel conversations) that PayPal persisted in assuring me that my money would be refunded. Post-assurances following the pre-assurance.
3. Apparently I have none of the PayPal protection extended to eBay transactions, for example. Yet in the phone call to suss this out in advance I explictly pointed out that this wasn't an eBay transaction; rather just a stranger I'd met on Craigslist + MacRumors. Didn't matter, I was told. Money would be equally and completely refundable.
4. Oh and marclapierre13: fwiw I did win the claim. No contest pleaded by seller.

Far from protecting me I don't see how PayPal can call itself anything less than an active accomplice to the fraud, both before and after the act of fraud itself. I've taken it as high as I can go telephone-contact-wise ("Executive Escalations Dept"). Am preparing a certified letter documenting exactly what happened & when; and considering asking attorney opinion(s) if PayPal's position stands.

So... PayPal thoughts welcome too & maybe less-sensitive privacy issues vs the je1ani ones, so sing 'em out (here vs PM)!

Thanks.
-icdb

[SthrnCmfrtr]

IANAL (you can take that however you like), but it seems to me that he committed felony fraud and admitted to it on here and on Paypal. Paypal has to know his bank account information (and therefore his real identity). Report it as felony theft and I think they'd have to subpoena Paypal (who would have to reveal the identity of the bank, and the bank would then be subpoenaed).

Considering how much money Paypal has and the sort of lawyers they're likely to employ, it'd seem to me that they'd refund your money given the circumstances and then menace the **** out of je1ani; even if they just get joy out of reporting the crime with the actual facts (name, address, etc) so that he gets called in and questioned, it'd be nice.

He made a real mistake doing this through Paypal. There's a big trail there. The question at hand is whether you're going to push them to do something about it -- both for you, and against je1ani.

Nail this turd to the wall.

[Keebler]

i can't find the thread, but I'm pretty sure I remember je1ani selling the same imac that he was going to sell to ICDB to Idyll? this was after the no show by Je1 and ICDB pulling out or cancelling the sale. I swear I saw a link to Je1's myspace site which clearly showed photos, plus address info (oak grove CA sticks in my mind for some reason).

Someone should talk to Idyll to see if he/she received that imac.

[icdb]

i can't find the thread, but I'm pretty sure I remember je1ani selling the same imac that he was going to sell to ICDB to Idyll? this was after the no show by Je1 and ICDB pulling out or cancelling the sale. I swear I saw a link to Je1's myspace site which clearly showed photos, plus address info (oak grove CA sticks in my mind for some reason).

Someone should talk to Idyll to see if he/she received that imac.

Posts #70, 71 and 73 in this thread contain a sub-conversation between idyll and je1ani. Don't see how this helps or affects my case one way or the other: whether he sold the same item to another or not the fact remains he didn't deliver what promised to me and didn't refund me.

I've got the link-to and an archive-of his myspace page w/ Elk Grove CA as address. Anyone with authority to subpoena PayPal records could get more specific than that as mentioned (bank account, address, identity).

Thanks for chiming-in and say more please if I'm missing something.

[taylorwilsdon]

Nobody here has the magic authority to subpoena PayPal. You should go down to your local PD and file an official report, thats the only way to get the wheels in motion.

One thing that it seems like you haven't investigated yet (may have missed it) is that your bank should allow you to charge back a bank transfer. I know that my bank allows me to reverse a EFT transfer just like I would with a credit or debit card transaction.

[icdb]

Nobody here has the magic authority to subpoena PayPal. You should go down to your local PD and file an official report, thats the only way to get the wheels in motion.

One thing that it seems like you haven't investigated yet (may have missed it) is that your bank should allow you to charge back a bank transfer. I know that my bank allows me to reverse a EFT transfer just like I would with a credit or debit card transaction.

I wasn't suggesting anybody here subpoena PayPal.

Have investigated bank charge back: no such luck.

As of this afternoon a Captain at NYPD 9th Precinct would not accept my complaint because he deemed the affair a civil matter between me and PayPal. What's more he and his partner were quite convinced that PayPal would be obliged to refund me if I had a lawyer write them a letter stating how they'd promised me (even if only over the telephone) before and after the scam that they'd refund me if no delivery + no contest by seller.

Seems like everyone wants someone else to take the responsibility, from seller to PayPal to NYPD. Haven't heard back from FBI yet.

[kgarchar]

****'s weak

i'd kill someone

[idyll]

The iMac je1ni sold to me is different (24" iMac 2.16Ghz).

I got a tracking number from him last Wednesday, but I still have not received the computer and when I try to track it on the usps.com website it does not say whether it is on it's way, just that it had been "Accepted". Is that normal for USPS? I remember their tracking system isn't quite up to par with UPS/FedEx with very infrequent updates.

Anyway, if the item does not arrive today, February 6, it will be a total of 7 days it has been in transit so I'll be giving USPS a call to see what the deal is. I am also planning to take pictures of me opening the box, perhaps with the mailman right there for proof. Just as assurance there is in fact an iMac in the box. This thread has me really worried :(

If nothing comes out if this it seems that I'll be joining you icdb. :(

[adamyoshida]

I wasn't suggesting anybody here subpoena PayPal.

Have investigated bank charge back: no such luck.

As of this afternoon a Captain at NYPD 9th Precinct would not accept my complaint because he deemed the affair a civil matter between me and PayPal. What's more he and his partner were quite convinced that PayPal would be obliged to refund me if I had a lawyer write them a letter stating how they'd promised me (even if only over the telephone) before and after the scam that they'd refund me if no delivery + no contest by seller.

Seems like everyone wants someone else to take the responsibility, from seller to PayPal to NYPD. Haven't heard back from FBI yet.

Forget the FBI. Contact the Postal Inspectors and the likes of that. State AG. Local Proseuctors.

The FBI isn't going to give a damn about $2000.

[kalex]

I learned my lesson with paypal a while ago. They are horrible at refunding your money. I made same assumption when I read about how i'm 100% protected on their website. about 5 years ago i bought something from ebay using paypal balance I had in my account. goods were never delivered and paypal sang the same tune "Seller withdrew the money and we will make best effort to claim it back" I lost $1600 once. from that point on I always made sure i had no balance in my paypal account and always paid through my credit card. that saved me couple of times. I ran into a problem with delivery of goods once more and paypal played the same tune. I didn't even bother with them and filed a claim with my credit card company. Credit card company refunded my payment within 30 days and paypal ate the cost. NEVER use bank account or paypal balance to pay for goods is the lesson to be learned and do check out www.paypalsucks.com about other horror stories.

Good luck

Alex

[stevegmu]

i can't find the thread, but I'm pretty sure I remember je1ani selling the same imac that he was going to sell to ICDB to Idyll? this was after the no show by Je1 and ICDB pulling out or cancelling the sale. I swear I saw a link to Je1's myspace site which clearly showed photos, plus address info (oak grove CA sticks in my mind for some reason).

Someone should talk to Idyll to see if he/she received that imac.

This thread?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=413739

[idyll]

Well, the item still did not come so I called USPS. Apparently it was mailed through Priority Mail and should have made it here within 2-3 days. Since it's been 7 days already, USPS is going to look into it to see what occurred and get back to me tomorrow. Ouch

[stevegmu]

Well, the item still did not come so I called USPS. Apparently it was mailed through Priority Mail and should have made it here within 2-3 days. Since it's been 7 days already, USPS is going to look into it to see what occurred and get back to me tomorrow. Ouch

This may be a good thing. If they lost the package- which probably doesn't really contain the advertised iMac, or at least a working one, they may just cut you a check, if the package was insured.

[icdb]

Alex,
I made no assumption. Rather, I telephoned PayPal to explain exactly what the situation was and was not; and to ascertain if my payment would be safe i.e. completely refundable if item was not delivered & seller had no case to make. After the scam I followed with two more phone calls confirming that things were on track per initial sussing-out. At every point from shortly before payment until more than 11 days later PayPal assured me my payment would be returned. Then suddenly they backed away from the unambiguous, unequivocal promise they'd made me. This was no assumption-making on my part. This is the most transparent case of back-flipping, revisionist history I can imagine. Better than fiction.

The Captain at my local precinct suggested hiring a civil-case lawyer to write them a letter. He deemed it an open-and-shut case. I've started with my own certified letter documenting what happened and when. We'll see. In my view the fine print which PayPal seeks to bring to my attention now is precisely what they should have pointed out when I asked, in advance, if there was any contingency whatsoever according to which I might not be able to have my money refunded—assuming non-delivery & no case by seller. So regardless of what the fine print might say I hold PayPal responsible for fulfilling what they promised.

Wouldn't you? Class-action lawsuit anyone?

Ok correction: I made the "assumption" that PayPal would abide by its specific promise.


I learned my lesson with paypal a while ago. They are horrible at refunding your money. I made same assumption when I read about how i'm 100% protected on their website. about 5 years ago i bought something from ebay using paypal balance I had in my account. goods were never delivered and paypal sang the same tune "Seller withdrew the money and we will make best effort to claim it back" I lost $1600 once. from that point on I always made sure i had no balance in my paypal account and always paid through my credit card. that saved me couple of times. I ran into a problem with delivery of goods once more and paypal played the same tune. I didn't even bother with them and filed a claim with my credit card company. Credit card company refunded my payment within 30 days and paypal ate the cost. NEVER use bank account or paypal balance to pay for goods is the lesson to be learned and do check out www.paypalsucks.com about other horror stories.

Good luck

Alex

[kalex]

I'm not blaming you, i'm just saying that same situation happened to me and paypal is really hard to get any info out of. your best bet is to hire a lawyer which i didn't do because i didn't want to loose more money for a lawyer. its also really confusing how they word their claims. on their site it says that you are 100% covered. but as it turns out you are not specially if seller withrdaws money from his paypal account.


alex

[pilotError]

Try calling the His local Sheriff and see if they'll pay him a visit. Since he never had the machine, I doubt they'll be able to collect the property.

You can file a remote small claim or have it done in proxy in some states. Look into it. It would be worth every penny to fly out there for the court date.

See if anyone on here is willing to pay him a visit. I belong to other boards where similar things have happened and you would be shocked how motivated an individual will become when paid a visit. Non Violent of course. These guys think they are anonymous and when someone shows up, the situation usually gets resolved.

I have had issues with this in the past, and in my case, the Sheriff paid the guy a visit. I received my items about 3 days later.

You have all the proof, unfortunately you learned a hard lesson. Never pay anything big out of paypal without a credit card. Oh, and you obviously already know what they NYC Police department will do for you. I'm a little surprised they wouldn't allow you to file the complaint though.

Take the photos that were posted, gather all the information you can and send it all to his local police. If you get someone who's bored, they will go get him. He's in school, perhaps remind him that his first job won't look to kindly to having a fraud charge on his criminal record.

Good Luck...

[brn2ski00]

Wow.

First time seeing this thread and I am shocked. I have learned a lot about the mechanics of an online sale. Thank you for everyone's insight.

My 2 cents:

No doubt in my mind that je1ani is a SCAM ARTIST. He's good too, that's the sad part. With that said, I think that hiring a lawyer (which may be pricey) and file a civil suit against the seller. This would most likely be your only chance to see any sort of compensation. The above is the most civil and logical way.

However, you could always fly over to California, beat the piss out of him and pee on his WT girlfriend. I apologize, but I am appalled at je1ani's actions and will think twice before ever doing business on MR's Marketplace. It only takes one negative experience to soil the entire pot for everyone.

[stevegmu]

An expensive lesson to learn, but when someone's selling a new iMac for $500 less than Apple sells it for, I can't say the results were unexpected.

[idyll]

It wasn't that much of a discount.. I think Apple's refurbished price is very close if not better(?).

[stevegmu]

He was selling it for $1775, with 4 GB RAM. A new one is $2299, with 2 GB RAM. A referb is $1949.

[livingfortoday]

Has there been any sort of resolution or outcome to this yet?

In response to the post below: I was not, I'm just curious as I trade on here regularly and scams like this worry me (and probably a lot of others, too). Seeing it resolved would help!

[Doctor Q]

Has there been any sort of resolution or outcome to this yet?If you were involved in this or other transactions with the original poster, please contact us privately.

[icdb]

i and another forum buyer scammed by this individual are pursuing je1ani via official channels presently. he has yet to refund either of us in spite of promises he made so to do. please add me as contact if you've dealt with je1ani and/or know anything which might serve the cause of bringing him to justice.

meantime i'll post any significant developments to this thread to keep folks in the know. thanks.


If you were involved in this or other transactions with the original poster, please contact us privately.

Has there been any sort of resolution or outcome to this yet?

In response to the post below: I was not, I'm just curious as I trade on here regularly and scams like this worry me (and probably a lot of others, too). Seeing it resolved would help!

[liquidh2o]

www.trollhunters.com

I highly recommend contacting them. A few of the original troll hunters are from the anandtech forums (a much bigger classifieds community), they have been doing this for a long time, and are very good at what they do.

[SamIchi]

www.trollhunters.com

I highly recommend contacting them. A few of the original troll hunters are from the anandtech forums (a much bigger classifieds community), they have been doing this for a long time, and are very good at what they do.

LOL @ the picture of the troll of the decade.

Anyways, I'm sorry to hear about your experience icdb, I hope this works out for you.

[Kevin83165]

Said by the scammer The other buyer paid me via MO, which offers less protection than paypal so there goes your little theory of me trying to save myself.


This is actually quite the opposite. If anyone paid this seller with a US postal money order, and did not receive your product, contact the US Postal inspection service immediately here

http://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/ContactUs.htm

Defrauding someone by accepting a US postal money order is a felony.

If you sent the money order via US mail, this adds like two more felony charges. One for using wire transfer with the intent to defraud, and another for intrastate/interstate.

These are very serious charges. If the Postmaster General decides to prosecute, this will go from zero to ugly for the scammer.