"Fans wish Apple would devote itself to software"

[sonofslim]

From an article (http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2003/10/17/itunes_for_windows/index.html) about iTunes for Windows in today's Salon.com:

"But perhaps the best thing about the new iTunes is the hope it offers that the new store is just a first step for Apple. Many of its fans have long wished that the company would devote itself solely to software."

my question: which fans, exactly?

[robbieduncan]

The ones who bitch and moan about the hardware. The ones who want OSX for x86 (and not on Apple x86 either). Not the people who actually buy Apple products!

[scem0]

certainly not me...

I think apple hardware is amazing, even if it is increadibly expensive, and it is a part of defining who and what apple is. Without hardware I would imagine apple being a very Macromedia-esque company. How many Macromedia Fans are there, that are totally consumed in their love for Macromedia? Certainly not many.

Hardware is a part of apple, it is what sets them apart from other companies. For apple to quit making hardware, would be the death of apple's community IMO.

I certainly wouldnt come to this site anymore if apple was only releasing software.

scem0

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by scem0
I certainly wouldnt come to this site anymore if apple was only releasing software.


then i wouldn't either.



yeah, apple's integration between the two is really the key. without that, who knows what will happen. lots more problems a la itunes for windows..

[Powerbook G5]

I sure as hell don't want Apple as just a software only company. I'm thinking the article was written by a PC user making a false claim that "fans" want Apple to do software when really it was another comment on how PC users don't want Macs to be around.

[hobbes3113]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I'm thinking the article was written by a PC user making a false claim that "fans" want Apple to do software when really it was another comment on how PC users don't want Macs to be around.

I would have to agree, I don't know of ANY Mac users that want Apple to stop producing hardware.

[eyelikeart]

Devote itself to software?!

no way...

Apple has enough trouble keeping up on its hardware, anything else that could potentially prevent it from moving faster would be terrible.

Leave the software to the makers of software, and the hardware to those who make hardware. ;)

[sonofslim]

i forget where i read the following -- it was a few months ago -- but someone, somewhere, said to the effect that Apple is essentially a hardware company that has to put out a killer OS in order to showcase its hardware.

which is a nice point, if you take it to mean that the fundamental difference between Apple and Microsoft is that one makes hardware and one makes an operating system.

on the other hand, it sort of diminishes the significance of the mac OS; i like jelloshot's comment about integration. i think the magic happens because Apple makes computers; not hardware, not operating systems, but the whole shebang.

[Powerbook G5]

It's like Sega to a lesser extent...I liked buying a Sega system, I liked the experience of powering up my Genesis or my Dreamcast to play Sonic. After they stepped away from hardware and now you can play Sonic on a Nintendo system, I simply stopped being a Sega fan. I just cannot see myself ever playing Sonic on a Nintendo...just like I would never use OS X on a Dell.

[ColoJohnBoy]

What crack was that person smoking? Apple is defined by uts hardware. Look at the iPod, the iMac, the PowerBook, the PowerMac. These are the best computers ever made. It's because of these that Apple is still around. I wouldn't have gone off to work for them if they were only making iPhoto and Sherlock.

[tpjunkie]

And don't forget, apple began as a hardware company. What kind of sense would it make for apple to stop making hardware and just make software? Thats like saying microsoft should forget about making windows (ok, not an altogether bad idea ;) ) and just focus on some kind of hardware

[Powerbook G5]

Microsoft should leave the software business and focus on optical mice. ;) :p

[baby duck monge]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Microsoft should leave the software business and focus on optical mice. ;) :p

there ya have it. from a fan, no less. let's go start spreading the news in PC forums that fans want ms to only make mice. let the rumors begin!

[wdlove]

I would not want to see Apple just focus on software. We need the hardware that Apple produces to showcase the software. In this way we get to enjoy great compatability.

[mac15]

Perfectly said wdlove, do you think Mac OS X would be as stable if it had to work for thousands of hardware configs? It most likely would be in the same boat as windows is.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by hobbes3113
I would have to agree, I don't know of ANY Mac users that want Apple to stop producing hardware.

for the time being, it makes sense for apple to make hardware since they still can make a profit despite being a rather small company...but if hardware prices fall too far, it will be hard for apple to make any money in this sector

in the early days of PCs, a lot of smaller companies did just fine, but when overall hardware prices fell, the only companies that could still make hardware were those that could buy in extreme quantities and today the field is pared down to just of few mega giants that dominate the industry

when it becomes financially ridiculous to compete in the computer hardware sector, then apple inc can always fall back on software...bill gates of microsoft decided a long time ago that the high margin of profit in software made it the better long term solution...in the pre microsoft corporation days, gates and paul allen decided that the operating system in the traf of data product they produced could really be the money maker more than the hardware part of the product

where nobody else thought of software as a viable stand alone product, bill gates used this to his advantage and scooped up all the software rights to the machines and hardware other companies were producing...so at forty dollars a pop for a copy of windows, the hardware companies are under bill's thumb...if apple had thought of the software only solution first, the two steves would be the richest men on earth, not bill gates and paul allen...this led steve jobs to say, after he was fired from apple, "my biggest mistake was not realizing that apple was a software company first"...what really makes a mac a mac (in the overall experience) is the operating system and it's relatively trouble free use and user friendly interface

overall, i hope apple makes hardware and software in one seamless package for years to come

[Powerbook G5]

I doubt that falling hardware prices will be as bad to Apple as it was to other PC makers. There is only one company you can get a Macintosh from, so even if a Windows PC is $500, I'd still pay twice as much for the equivalent Macintosh.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I doubt that falling hardware prices will be as bad to Apple as it was to other PC makers. There is only one company you can get a Macintosh from, so even if a Windows PC is $500, I'd still pay twice as much for the equivalent Macintosh.

hey, me too

but according to current computer industry hardware trends, what will you do when a PC computer, let's say running at 12 ghz with several gigs of RAM, is under a hundred bucks? why would apple make hardware then?...what financial incentive would there be for them to do that with minimal profit, if any, for hardware? i have already seen new PCs at $399 and even 299...and it wasn't too long ago that any machine under one thousand dollars was inconceivable

[Powerbook G5]

Yes, but Macs have fallen in price, too, and Apple is still making a good profit on them. You can get an iBook for quite a bit under $1000 when a few years ago, getting an Apple laptop would set you back a good $3000 regardless of model. Hardware prices are also falling, which means that Apple can get their hands on hardware for cheaper to design and build their computers with, which lowers cost so when they price them for lower, they can still maintain a profit margin. As far as $300 computers go, I doubt that many Mac users would pass up a $1000 Mac in favor of a $300 PC, anyway. When you buy a Mac, you already understand it will cost more, but it will be worth that extra cost, so it is more acceptable than if you were shopping for a PC and the $300 eMachines looks just as good on paper as the $700 Dell does.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
Yes, but Macs have fallen in price, too, and Apple is still making a good profit on them. You can get an iBook for quite a bit under $1000 when a few years ago, getting an Apple laptop would set you back a good $3000 regardless of model. Hardware prices are also falling, which means that Apple can get their hands on hardware for cheaper to design and build their computers with, which lowers cost so when they price them for lower, they can still maintain a profit margin. As far as $300 computers go, I doubt that many Mac users would pass up a $1000 Mac in favor of a $300 PC, anyway. When you buy a Mac, you already understand it will cost more, but it will be worth that extra cost, so it is more acceptable than if you were shopping for a PC and the $300 eMachines looks just as good on paper as the $700 Dell does.

yes, as current mac users, we know the extra cost is worth it

but as PCs fall faster in pricing as it is now, new computer users will be drawn to PCs as the relative gap widers in the the price differential

apple's small size will be such a disadvantage to volume discounts compared to a dell or hp-compaq that the disparity in PC price to mac price will only get worse at times goes on...the mac faithful who know the difference will stay at a steady number, but as the population grows and more people are introduced into the world of computing, the PC side will add to their already commanding market share

apple inc, through basic macroeconomic priciples, can be forced out of the hardware field...but at least apple inc can always sell software and enjoy the high margin of profit...i also assume apple would then dive into the digital media arts realm more in software titles

in the end, apple is a business and should only do things is it yields them a profit

[Powerbook G5]

I don't think the price puts off that many people, though. When I became a switcher, I was deciding between a $2000 Dell PIII or a $3000 PowerBook G3. I had never used a Mac in my life besides for about 2 minutes in CompUSA when I wandered into the Apple section by mistake. It was a $1000 difference, but my dad said it was okay because I had replaced me Compaq laptop 3 times before we got fed up and demanded CompUSA for out money back and I wanted something better. To be fair, I looked at other P4 and Centrino laptops before I decided to stick with Apple while waiting for 6 months for the new 15" PowerBooks. Again, I could have gone for cheaper, but I went with Apple, instead. My roommate is thinking about it now, too, as he has had nothing but problems with his new HP laptop...sure, the cost is greater, but something there are more things to look at than just initial cost.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I don't think the price puts off that many people, though. When I became a switcher, I was deciding between a $2000 Dell PIII or a $3000 PowerBook G3. I had never used a Mac in my life besides for about 2 minutes in CompUSA when I wandered into the Apple section by mistake. It was a $1000 difference, but my dad said it was okay because I had replaced me Compaq laptop 3 times before we got fed up and demanded CompUSA for out money back and I wanted something better. To be fair, I looked at other P4 and Centrino laptops before I decided to stick with Apple while waiting for 6 months for the new 15" PowerBooks. Again, I could have gone for cheaper, but I went with Apple, instead. My roommate is thinking about it now, too, as he has had nothing but problems with his new HP laptop...sure, the cost is greater, but something there are more things to look at than just initial cost.

we just have to convince new users of this:p

[Powerbook G5]

Perhaps, but I bet there are more like me. I was a hardcore user and would make Mac jokes with my friends often...that is, until I actually used one. People are becoming more exposed to Apple with the iPod, the new G5 making a big splash, seeing new colorful ads, and now iTunes on Windows. I am sure many more are starting to see there is another company out there and they don't do windows...and for those who don't switch, there will always be the hardcore Mac fans that would never hesitate to buy another Mac, despite a higher price premium. Either way, I see Apple being able to stay in the hardware business for a good long time.

[jefhatfield]

for product loyalty, i am into macs, of course...and rockport shoes from the discount rockport outlets

i like my volvo so much that i think i will get another...that is, if i live that long since those things never die...my dad's volvo, bought in '75, still works like a charm, especially since he sold it to a volvo mechanic recently...then he got a used 87 and crashed it immediately and replaced it with a new looking 95

i like fender guitars but over the years, i sometimes bought another brand just for a change of pace but still have had tons of fender guitars over the last twenty years

so in my life, i have basically had 3 macs...the one i used for college that my dad had which was a performa 600, then a mac clone which was a powertowerpro 180, and then my ibook, and most lately a dual G4

but before that, i used my dad's apple II+ and apple IIe...for most people, i think once you discover apple inc, there is no other company that will come before that (oh, as for rockport shoes, i have had two walkers and one "roc" by rockport..;) )

some people are brand loyalists and i am if i lke the product and the service behind it...if the service sucks, i don't care how good the product is...when i got my ibook in '99, apple had some well known "issues" with their service department but i have heard they have remedied those problems for the most part

[Powerbook G5]

I'm pretty big on brand loyalty, too. I used to have nothing but Sony electronics...until they started nose diving in quality. Now, I am pretty big on Samsung tvs, Pioneer and Yamaha for audio, and Infinity for speakers. As far as computers, I am pretty dedicated to Apple since I have had nothing but great experience with them, but I'd have to lean towards IBM if I were to need a PC. When it comes to brand, quality, and overall best experience, sometimes price just isn't as big of a factor.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Powerbook G5
I'm pretty big on brand loyalty, too. I used to have nothing but Sony electronics...until they started nose diving in quality. Now, I am pretty big on Samsung tvs, Pioneer and Yamaha for audio, and Infinity for speakers. As far as computers, I am pretty dedicated to Apple since I have had nothing but great experience with them, but I'd have to lean towards IBM if I were to need a PC. When it comes to brand, quality, and overall best experience, sometimes price just isn't as big of a factor.

for me if money were no object, i would get the better designed rockport shoes at the regular rockport store instead of the outlet store

as for guitars, i would buy paul reed smith and esp instruments from their custom shops

for cars, i would buy new volvos instead of used ones

and for macs, i would buy the best model out there once a year and donate my old machines to schools

but i would never find the need to have ferragamo shoes, handbuilt guitars by a private maker, bentleys, or a cray supercomputer but i know people who are into those types of extremes and some do not make the money to justify that spending

i know a man who makes 20k a year, take home pay, and he always has two dinners every night or at the very least two lunches during the day...one at home with his parents and one right before or after at a restaurant and he is...he he...very fat

i know a man who makes 55k a year or so take home pay and he has a wine cellar which is worth well over 100,000 dollars and perhaps a lot more...some bottles of wine he has are worth about as much as an ibook and he has spent a grand on high end dinners with high end wines at five star restaurants...his taste in wine is higher than people who have ten times his net worth

and i know a young boy who works at a music store for slave wages and he has at least 20,000 dollars in music gear that he has amassed in just a few years and he rarely uses most of it

[pseudobrit]

I buy on two principles: quality and reliability.

Quality: Inherent in quality is usability and features. No PC is going to outperform the Mac in this regard. They may have iTunes, but they don't have squat else that we do in terms of iApps and their integration with both soft- and hardware, Apple and third party. Windows may have more software titles, but they all seem to be games. I have a PS2 for games, thank you very much.

Plus, Apple stuff is gorgeous to look at and nice to touch. I know of no other computer that is quite so pleasing to the eye while being understated. When's the last time you had to use a big, clunky plasticky POS PS/2 keyboard and mouse? They're just crap.

Reliability: 2+ years and my iBook is battered and much worse for the wear, but considering all it's been through, and the fact that it's needed just about $60 worth of repairs that I did on my own (and while handy with tools, I'm no computer repairman). Any other laptop from the year 2001 would be about shot right now given the use I'd have put it through. I have a Rev. A Bondi Blue iMac that I took to work for minor graphics stuff. It runs like a champ on Jaguar (a bit slow, but never freezes or carries on), and I expect the same from Panther. That's a 6 year old machine running a brand-new OS. Name one other manufacturer that can run new MS stuff on 6 year-old hardware.