Which browser is best? [Archive]

MacAztec

Apr 28, 2002, 09:22 PM

I am still using IE. It looks OK, runs fast, and has all the plug-ins that I need.

Omni Web is great. Looks good, feels good, but one problem. It doesn't read the Apple Store quick enough! It like Apple Script or something.

Mozilla is ugly as holy hell. It runs really fast, but its looks are like...barf!

Chimera is pretty nice. It is very quick, but doesn't have enough options yet.

Netscape? Blah...too ugly, and slow

iCab I used to use, but then I found Omni Web. I gave up speed for looks, but...

I am still using IE!

Luckster

Apr 28, 2002, 09:27 PM

IE has the most features, but for general browsing, I have found OmniWeb to be very nice. I like the way it cuts down the ads. It also allows you to selectively accept cookies. All very nice features if you ask my opinion. As far as Chimera is concerned, it looks very promising. However, it is so young that I will give it a few more builds before I try to use it regularly. For very complex sites, IE is better because more sites recognize it.

mmmdreg

Apr 28, 2002, 09:32 PM

gah! who voted Netscape?

eyelikeart

Apr 28, 2002, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by Luckster
I have found OmniWeb to be very nice. I like the way it cuts down the ads. It also allows you to selectively accept cookies.

now this is something I need to look into...I've been asking about that type of feature and nobody has pointed me in the right direction as of yet...

he he he....thank u for pointing that out! :p

jelloshotsrule

Apr 28, 2002, 10:07 PM

netscape is by far the worst of the ones i've used.

sooooo slow.

i use ie because of the plug ins and such. but i'll look into the others when they are much fuller. as of now i use chimera and omniweb occasionally for fun

eyelikeart

Apr 28, 2002, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
netscape is by far the worst of the ones i've used.

sooooo slow.

poor netscape...the one that was there before anything else...now the bottom of the barrel... :o

netscape lost out a few years ago when it was on version 4.x...can't remember exactly....but it was "the slower one"....and then Microsoft waved it's magic wand and IE become the reigning champion...

jelloshotsrule

Apr 28, 2002, 10:22 PM

yeah, netscape used to be great. until like 4.76 or something... i remember having communicator and it just seemed so much slower than it had before. and so far downhill since then. 2 versions up and yet it's that much worse.

i don't get why they wouldn't fix it. do they not realize it's that slow? or rather, why wouldn't they have realized it was heinously slow before putting it out and work out the bugs... oh well. now we're seeing the future of browsers come out of the woodwork

chmorley

Apr 28, 2002, 11:16 PM

Mozilla is my favorite. It is nearly as fast as Chimera, faster by far than IE or OW. It's also much more stable than IE and extremely compliant. If you think it's ugly, try it with the pinstripe (http://homepage.mac.com/kgerich/pinstripe.html) theme. It makes it look much more "Aqua". IE crashes on my machine about every 2 hours. OmniWeb is getting faster and is very pretty, but it's still a bit too slow and buggy to be my #1 browser. I do think OW and Chimera will be slugging it out in the near future.

I've been a part of a number of these browser threads, and I have found two odd things.

1) People make up their minds based on something other than facts (usually dogma (e.g., "Netscape is slow") or outdated information).

2) People seem to care a fair bit about this discussion--probably because people hate to see facts that don't fit with their beliefs.

That being said, I will challenge people to actually check page load times at their 10 favorite pages and see which work best and fastest. Don't just judge based on how long it takes the browser to load, but actually how fast it works. A few sites that I will suggest (because they are complex):

TVguide.com's satellite TV listings.
weather.com's local weather listings
ESPN's home page (especially check the "Insider/Page 2" part)

I know what my results are (that's why I use what I do), but it seems that browsers perform differently on different machines. I am very curious to know what yours are. Also post any other pages you think are good indices of performance.

If you choose your browser based on how it looks, this probably won't help you.

Chris

Catfish_Man

Apr 28, 2002, 11:30 PM

...does everyone say Omniweb is slow? I'm using 4.1b5 and it's as fast as Chimera on my machine. In order of speed (subjective, I don't care about how fast it actually is, just how fast it feels) this is what it's like on my machine:

1st: Omniweb/Chimera/IE (they're all fast in different ways)
2nd: Mozilla (but it starts waaaaaaay too slow)
3rd: Netscape

For looks:
1st: Omniweb/Chimera
2nd: IE
3rd: Netscape/Mozilla

For features ( I didn't try Netscape long enough to test it):
1st: IE (just barely)
2nd: Omniweb
3rd: Mozilla
4th: Chimera

Beej

Apr 28, 2002, 11:51 PM

I use OW, but it is slow, lacks any real JS support, and has trouble with some layouts. So, why don't I use something else?

1. The UI is crisp, clean, simple and easy to use - it's easily better than any other browser.

2. It may not have a huge feature list, but the features it has are very useful and I use them a lot, eg killing ads.

3. I like the Omni Group. They do a lot of great things for the Mac platform, and I enjoy supporting those sorts of companies. If all apps were OG apps, the world would be a better place.

I deleted IE once, but I had to d/l it again not long after. There are some things that I just can't do in OW. I only ever use IE when OW is incapable of doing something.

Chimera looks very promising, but it has not yet been fleshed out enough to use as an every day browser.

eyelikeart

Apr 28, 2002, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
yeah, netscape used to be great. until like 4.76 or something... i remember having communicator and it just seemed so much slower than it had before. and so far downhill since then. 2 versions up and yet it's that much worse.

i don't get why they wouldn't fix it. do they not realize it's that slow? or rather, why wouldn't they have realized it was heinously slow before putting it out and work out the bugs... oh well. now we're seeing the future of browsers come out of the woodwork

exactly...then Netscape 5 came out...and I think it was because of java...but that took nearly a minute to load it felt like...terrible....that's when I decided never to use Netscape again...

it's not on a single computer that I use nor which I have installed the system on...

I wonder how their future is looking?? :(

mmmdreg

Apr 29, 2002, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by Catfish_Man
...does everyone say Omniweb is slow? I'm using 4.1b5 and it's as fast as Chimera on my machine. In order of speed (subjective, I don't care about how fast it actually is, just how fast it feels) this is what it's like on my machine:

1st: Omniweb/Chimera/IE (they're all fast in different ways)
2nd: Mozilla (but it starts waaaaaaay too slow)
3rd: Netscape

For looks:
1st: Omniweb/Chimera
2nd: IE
3rd: Netscape/Mozilla

For features ( I didn't try Netscape long enough to test it):
1st: IE (just barely)
2nd: Omniweb
3rd: Mozilla
4th: Chimera

That seems to be exactly what I've seen..but I'm using IE until Chimera comes along a bit more...

mc68k

Apr 29, 2002, 01:15 AM

Seems like we all have to split with IE and some evolving browser, so we can maintain total compatibility, but still feeling like a rebel.

I have used all the main browsers listed for X, and I think Mozilla's the best. Stable, fast, fairly compatible, nostalgic (go netscape!), and non m$. Omni's good, pretty, but not as fast. Chimera looks like it will be king given more time.

Too bad Apple's married to m$, they should come out with their own iExplore.

Lynx is also a good brwser, but there's not too many websites that look good on it. :)

wsteineker

Apr 29, 2002, 02:09 AM

Maybe I'm doing something wrong here, but Chimera is not that fast on my Cube. It takes FOREVER to launch, and it's not as fast as IE in terms of page loading. That said, it looks fantastic. I love the antialiasing. Omniweb is pretty slow too. I think I'll stick with IE until an alternate browser can show me some zip on my machine.

chmorley

Apr 29, 2002, 07:45 AM

Originally posted by Catfish_Man
In order of speed (subjective, I don't care about how fast it actually is, just how fast it feels)...
I think this is what people tend to do. Why? Would you prefer a car that "feels" faster in a race?

The benchmarks are clear. Mozilla and Chimera are faster than IE, OW, Opera. Here (http://chimera.mozdev.org/showdown.html) are the I-bench scores of OW, IE, Opera, and Chimera (posted at Chimera's website). Granted, it doesn't include Mozilla and was done before Quartz AA was implemented (which they acknowledge slowed it down a little).

What factors are making people think that IE is fast (it's not)? What makes it (or any browser) feel fast? Why does that matter more than if it is fast? Netscape's benchmarks are actually pretty good, but becuase 6 (there was no 5) was such a piece of crap and it takes so long to load, people have given up on it.

If you'd rather base your choice on fact (rather than feeling), I will again, suggest you try TVguide.com (http://www.tvguide.com/listings/) in all of your browsers and see how long each one takes. Don't base results on feeling, but on *time*.

Lastly, do we use Macs because they look better or because they work better? If it's the former, I think we're confused, and the Mac is in deep shît.

Chris

p.s., Chimera 0.2.6 just came out this morning. It seems more stable than 0.2.5 and deals with some pages better (e.g., ESPN.com). It's pretty, too. ;)

jelloshotsrule

Apr 29, 2002, 08:16 AM

i got the chimera 26 version just now and it won't start up. the app keeps quitting when trying to start up.

i've restarted, trashed prefs, redownloaded... everything.

so much for making that switch

chmorley

Apr 29, 2002, 08:57 AM

Another example of how software behaves differently on different computers. This is the most stable build of Chimera I've had in a long time. It's been up for over an hour with no crashes on my machine.

Also, I believe this is the first time I've seen one of these polls in which IE doesn't have a majority of the votes (40% right now)! That's pretty cool. People are trying new things, and our options are getting better!

Imagine the day when Mac users only need one browser.

Chris

stromie952

Apr 29, 2002, 02:25 PM

With the Mozilla 1.0 first release, it became my main browser. I like it much more than IE. I have also had a lot of luck with Chimera, except for the fact that I can't get it to download anything (I am using .0.2.3, I will update it when I get back from work). I LOVE the anti aliased text though. I got spoiled on it when I first tried Chimera.

I use Mozilla for downloading and I use Chimera for everyday browsing.
I am very pleased with Chimera and I hope the development continues!

chmorley

Apr 29, 2002, 11:46 PM

Check out how much the results of this poll have changed since the last time we did it:

Old thread (http://www.macrumors.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=1478)

Interesting.

Chris

sparkleytone

Apr 30, 2002, 01:34 PM

the 0.2.6 release of Chimera is probably the first majorly buggy release so far, and the guys are hard at work on it. In the meantime I would recommend 0.2.5 instead as its fairly stable and is a good indicator of how far this browser is coming along and at what speed.

Chimera 0.2.5 (http://homepage.mac.com/alanbrent/Public/chimera25.dmg.gz)

if the link seems broken, then i am still uploading it, wait about 5 minutes max.

chmorley

Apr 30, 2002, 09:18 PM

Chimera 0.2.6 has crashed once on me in the past 36 hours. It's the most stable one I've had since I started using it (version 0.1). Maybe that's because the developer has the same machine. Maybe it's the fresh mountain air. Or maybe it's the hot dog I ate for lunch.

Whatever it is, it's great!

Chris

jelloshotsrule

Apr 30, 2002, 09:37 PM

i still haven't gotten 26 to work on my machine...

and that link to 25 didn't work for me... you posted this afternoon so i think you're done uploading... right?

was it me or was the link messed up? i definitely want to get 25 (i tossed it once i got 26, only to not be able to get it on the web anymore..)

sparkleytone

Apr 30, 2002, 09:50 PM

damn i suck...try this

Chimera 0.2.5 (http://idisk.mac.com/alanbrent/Public/chimera25.dmg.gz)

jelloshotsrule

Apr 30, 2002, 11:29 PM

sweet. thanks sparkley

GeeYouEye

May 1, 2002, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by eyelikeart

exactly...then Netscape 5 came out...and I think it was because of java...but that took nearly a minute to load it felt like...terrible....that's when I decided never to use Netscape again...

it's not on a single computer that I use nor which I have installed the system on...

I wonder how their future is looking?? :(

Umm, eye'? There was no netscape 5. It went from Communicator 4.76 straight to 6, with 4.77, .78, and .79 (bug fixes mostly) later. Do you mean 6?

chmorley

May 1, 2002, 12:22 AM

Also, just for the record, Netscape wasn't the first browser. NCSA's Mosaic was. Some of the Mosaic folks broke off to make this huge (by that era's standards) browser, Netscape, which was nicknamed "Mozilla"--based on Mosaic, but much bigger. That is from whence the Mozilla project borrowed their name.

You can still see their (archived) web page here (http://archive.ncsa.uiuc.edu/SDG/Software/Mosaic/NCSAMosaicHome.html).

Chris

mmmdreg

May 2, 2002, 06:52 AM

oops! I forgot to put Opera down as an option but would any of you have voted that anyway? BTW, I can't add it anymore for some reason...MR won't let me edit my own poll!

sparkleytone

May 3, 2002, 08:14 AM

Chimera 0.2.7 (http://idisk.mac.com/mozilladave/Public/chimera27.dmg.gz) is out :)

edesignuk

May 3, 2002, 08:18 AM

I like IE, allthough I sometimes use OmniWeb.

sparkleytone

May 3, 2002, 09:00 AM

The chimera team have made the toolbar finally have the functionality of mozilla, with Aqua interface. Now the Bookmarks can be draged and dropped and the sidebar works much better. Check it.

sparkleytone

May 3, 2002, 09:02 AM

whoops.

Geert

May 3, 2002, 10:26 AM

I've tried the chimera .2.7 and it's really great, fast, clear.(previous version seemed to be going on forever, without loading anything)
fastest so far I've tried (that also has a decent look)
pitty that it still is not fully customizeable, but I guess we'll see how it works out in future releases.
I will keep on trying chimera from time to time, to let go of the IE, you see ;)

sparkleytone

May 3, 2002, 12:55 PM

better pic...

http://idisk.mac.com/alanbrent/Public/chimera.jpg

awulf

May 3, 2002, 03:29 PM

Opera 5 is a pretty good browser and I use it alot because it starts up fast and surfs the net faster than IE on my PM 7600. I think thersion 6 is out now and I might try that out soon. Opra isn't very full featured and its looks aren't great either but it does the job well enough and doesn't crash as much as IE. But there are those banner ads in the tool bar if you don't register it.

www.opera.com (http://www.opera.com)

crassusad44

May 3, 2002, 04:20 PM

After I found out about Chimera, I have played around with it for a while, and now with version 0.2.7, I use it 70% of my browsing time. I like it much more than IE, and it's much faster with my broadband connection. www.apple.com should not take several seconds to load with a 155 MBit line! But IE does exactly that. Blame Microsoft. Hail Chimera. Can't wait to see how the final 1.0 version will be like :) :D :)

chmorley

May 3, 2002, 10:01 PM

Man. This thing just keeps getting better. It seems to have regained some of the speed it had lost when it went to Quartz rendering. Also, it is getting better with Flash animations--still not as smooth as it ought to be, but getting better.

There will be a day when we only need one browser! Maybe I'll keep OW around too, just to encourage them.

Chimera is close. :D

Chris

jelloshotsrule

May 3, 2002, 11:00 PM

well i'm just happy that chimera .2.7 actually works on my computer. so that's good..

i'm using it somewhat extensively now for the first time, and i will say that i like it. if only for the non ms factor. however, it's got some time before becoming my only browswer for sure. it actually did quit on me, as well as not loading pages right... ie, i was at macrumors and i reloaded or something and the page just stayed white. i tried another page. same thing. til i quit and started the app up again..

all in all though. i like

ps. is there a way to open a new window from a link with a key? as with the command key and clicking a link in ie....? thanks

chmorley

May 4, 2002, 12:12 AM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
...is there a way to open a new window from a link with a key? as with the command key and clicking a link in ie....?

As a matter of fact, you can do even better. Command-clicking a link will open a new tab. Shift-Command-clicking will open a new tab behind the current one.

Once I got used to tabs, I could not go back to non-tab browsers. It's unfortunate OW doesn't do tabs or it would be my #2 browser.

If you end up not liking tabs...I don't know what to tell you. I don't believe theres' a shortcut to open a new browser window.

You won't miss it, though... :cool:

Chris

jelloshotsrule

May 4, 2002, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by chmorley
As a matter of fact, you can do even better. Command-clicking a link will open a new tab. Shift-Command-clicking will open a new tab behind the current one.

ahh, i see now. what had me fooled was that i tried to command click a toolbar favorite and that doesn't seem to work.... and holding the click on them just gives greyed menus... so i guess that's for future improvements. the behind tab will be nice i think. nice addition.

Originally posted by chmorley
Once I got used to tabs, I could not go back to non-tab browsers. It's unfortunate OW doesn't do tabs or it would be my #2 browser.

If you end up not liking tabs...I don't know what to tell you. I don't believe theres' a shortcut to open a new browser window.
Chris

sorry if this is dumb, but what's the difference b/w a tab and a browser window...?

when i do the command click thing, it opens what i'd call a new window. am i missing something?

jelloshotsrule

May 4, 2002, 12:31 AM

hmmm, i see the tabs now, via the "new tab" file menu option.... but that doesn't happen when i command click.... wonder why that is.

either way, i like the windows for now. i'm just sooo used to command w for closing it, that i'd probably end up closing a lot of windows when trying to close tabs. but then again, i'm game for change.

so, why might it be doing new windows for me and new tabs for you....?

chmorley

May 4, 2002, 12:36 AM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
ahh, i see now. what had me fooled was that i tried to command click a toolbar favorite and that doesn't seem to work.... and holding the click on them just gives greyed menus... so i guess that's for future improvements. the behind tab will be nice i think. nice addition.

You can also control-click links for more options. I usually use the tab-behind, though.

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

sorry if this is dumb, but what's the difference b/w a tab and a browser window...?
when i do the command click thing, it opens what i'd call a new window. am i missing something?

A new tab is within the same browser window, simply separated by a tab. It's a small thing at first glance, but ends up making a big difference. The primary difference is that it takes just one click on the old/new tab to switch the page you are looking at. Compare this to having to go to the "Window" pull-down and selecting the right window. Try it for a day and you will see how much time tabs save you.

Also, when a page reloads, you can see it in the tab.

Try it for a day (or even an hour) and you will notice a big difference.

Chris

jelloshotsrule

May 4, 2002, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by chmorley
You can also control-click links for more options. I usually use the tab-behind, though.

A new tab is within the same browser window, simply separated by a tab. It's a small thing at first glance, but ends up making a big difference. The primary difference is that it takes just one click on the old/new tab to switch the page you are looking at. Compare this to having to go to the "Window" pull-down and selecting the right window. Try it for a day and you will see how much time tabs save you.

Also, when a page reloads, you can see it in the tab.

Try it for a day (or even an hour) and you will notice a big difference.

i use adium and they use the tab system, and i like it.... it isn't giving me the "new tab behind" option with control click. nor is it opening in new tab with command click but rather new window. same with shift command click... (ie new window behind). any idea why?

is there a way to toggle b/w tabs with the keyboard? similar to command ` in ie (and chimera now, as i test that hotkey)... but for tabs... not windows.

chmorley

May 4, 2002, 01:00 AM

Sounds like you are doing everything right and Chimera is acting differently on your machine than on mine. No clue why.

I don't know of a hotkey combo to switch between tabs. Sorry.

Chris

jelloshotsrule

May 4, 2002, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by chmorley
Sounds like you are doing everything right and Chimera is acting differently on your machine than on mine. No clue why.

I don't know of a hotkey combo to switch between tabs. Sorry.

ahh, well maybe in the next release or two....

after all, .2.6 wouldn't even run on my comp. so this is still a step up. the toggling would definitely be good for me. i like to have a few pages open and toggle between and read without needing the mouse....

perhaps in a future release (i'm saying that alot i think... ha)