PowerBook G5 - 'Going to be a while'

[MacRumors]

In a wide-ranging interview (http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/os/macos/story/0,10801,86802,00.html) with ComputerWorld, David Russell director of product marketing for portables and wireless at Apple made some comments about the feasibility of a PowerBook G5.

"We certainly want to do that. But it's going to be a while. We think the G4 has a very long life in the PowerBook", according to Russell


This echoes similar statements made by Steve Jobs (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030921161035.shtml) indicating that they would like to produce a G5 PowerBook by the end of 2004.

Cooling issues continue to be cited as the reason for the difficulty in implementing a G5 PowerBook. One subsequent rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030923152753.shtml) hinted that Apple was testing liquid cooling to overcome these obstacles.

[Freg3000]

Red herring, red herring, red herring. Please.....

Yeah this seems a little more realistic. Unfortunate, but realistic.

[rdowns]

Good, now let's get my G5 iMac ready. Cash is burning a whole in my pocket.

[Photorun]

Not a shocker to me. Despite some naive posts in these forums the feasability of sticking a 970, even clocked down, in that small a space is going to take a lot of figuring out.

[The Ancients]

I survived the wait for G5 desktop, which has taught me patience (but not too much), I will wait until 2004 for a G5 laptop. (please remind me of this in 12 months when i am still waiting)

[Booga]

I don't think water will really help. The heat still has to go somewhere. If they get really good at piping it away from the processor, that just means your lap will get that much hotter, unless they make a wind tunnel out of it.

They pretty much have to solve most of the problem at the source, and get the G5 running cooler using smaller dies, new fab techniques, etc. before it can go in a PowerBook.

[dho]

I think we may just have to wait and see :(

[stoid]

I personally hope that they wait until at least end of 2004 to put the G5 in the PowerBook, I just bought a new 15 inch 1.25 Ghz AluBook, and if Apple releases a G5 PowerBook within 6 months of the time I got this one, I will be a little peeved.

[ThomasJefferson]

Excuse me while it strut sitting down. This means I have been right about something Apple-related exactly -twice- this year.

This also means I have a higher accuracy record than MacWhispers!

Witness my perfection.

[sethypoo]

Just think that the longer we wait, the better the product will be.

Do you want Apple to release a overheated, flimsy, bug-ridden PowerBook G5 in less than a year or a high quality laptop in 15-16 months? I'd prefer the latter.

[mistersquid]

Originally posted by stoid
I personally hope that they wait until at least end of 2004 to put the G5 in the PowerBook, I just bought a new 15 inch 1.25 Ghz AluBook, and if Apple releases a G5 PowerBook within 6 months of the time I got this one, I will be a little peeved.

The idea that people would hope that technological progress would slow down because of their investment in current technology astonishes and angers me. Who gives a flip about your investment? You would rather the whole world sit still so you can maintain some symbolic sense that your machine is the latest and greatest.

What people like stoid don't understand is that their machines will gain symbolic power as a result of technological gains in the brand. In either case, the specs of your machine won't improve until you upgrade either to a new machine or the components of the machine you presently own.

Excuse my insensitivity, but would you please get out of the way of technological progress? It's a good thing you don't work at Apple.

([i]FWIW, I am the owner of a 15" 1.25 GHz Powerbook, replete with white spots on the display, and I cannot wait until Apple develops and ships a G5 powerbook.)

[jamesatzones]

They could run freon through it :) Just kidding. The current Powerbooks will surfice for now...

[Sheebahawk]

good, this should give me enough time to save for one. think they'll manage to fit 8 gigs of ram in one too? The case better not be any bigger/hotter than the current models!

seriously though, any chance ibm is making a secret portable version of the 970? I think I remember the task of putting a g4 in a powerbook seemed daunting back then. I've got faith that whatever apple does'll tur out to be the best portable in its time.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by stoid
I personally hope that they wait until at least end of 2004 to put the G5 in the PowerBook, I just bought a new 15 inch 1.25 Ghz AluBook, and if Apple releases a G5 PowerBook within 6 months of the time I got this one, I will be a little peeved.

although i can respect your opinion as this happened to a good friend of mine with his iMac, he bought the G3 one week before the G4 was installed into the iMacs

However, i HOPE YOUR WRONG

... I'm dyeing to get a G5 laptop. -

i don't upgrade very often, once every 4 - 6 years, i'll be going on 5 years with this computer in early May. i bought this when the first G4's came out, and now since time has been taking a toll on my machine, it's getting ready to move on to bigger and better things. well not really bigger, i'm hoping to switch to a laptop - and although the current powerbooks would be more then adequate, i would love to have a laptop with a G5 chip as to enjoy the future of 64 bit processing, and the advancements in software to come, something that will suite more for another 4 - 5 years.

[chickengrease16]

whoever said they would use water... they wont use water. it would be a liquid that can handle heat a lot better than water probably.

but yeah. while its fun to *speculate*, i think this whole jumping-ahead-of-the-gun thing is getting old. why don't we try and be atleast a little surprised (when we know a few days ahead of time, because we're the mac rumors community!) when the powerbook g5 comes out, rather than disappointed that it took so long? i mean, it just doesnt seem right. that'd be like us saying now "i'm going to wait for the PowerMac G6" and keep talking like its gonna happen next month and then when/if it does come out us going "hey, apple! why'd ya take so long?" come on everyone. they're working. let them work. this is called american consumerism. its normal to buy something and then a month later have it updated and nicer. get used to it. and those of you out of the US, Apple is in the US so you can deal with our consumerism too.

fyi, i bought the top of the line 15" TiBook (1GHz superdrive 60gb airport etc.) and they discontinued it. am i disappointed? heck no.

[QCassidy352]

I'm not glad, but I did call this. When G4 ibooks got released, eveyone was like, "wow, this must mean the PBs are going G5 soon!" um... no. imacs and powermacs were both G4 for a long time. G4s in ibooks was about making the ibook line competitive with PC notebooks; it says *nothing* about G5s in powerbooks.

[Manatee]

If they cool it with liquid, the heat would still have to be dispersed without roasting the rest of the components in the case. What they could do instead, is have two ports where the user connects it to a vein and an artery, and cools it with his/her own blood. The blood would be body temperature - still much cooler than the processor, and would harmlessly disperse the heat throughout the body. The only roadblock to this idea is installing the lines into the body. Maybe the Mac Geniuses at the Apple stores could be trained to do this. However, all the people who live far from Apple stores would still be out of luck. They could include a do-it-yourself kit with the PowerBooks, but there might be liability issues.

[ThomasJefferson]

How does one go about getting a name like "chickengrease16"? Must be a Tallahassee thing.

I spent a week there one day.

Panama City - much better location.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by chickengrease16
whoever said they would use water... they wont use water. it would be a liquid that can handle heat a lot better than water probably.


fyi, i bought the top of the line 15" TiBook (1GHz superdrive 60gb airport etc.) and they discontinued it. am i disappointed? heck no.

from my knowledge of the compound H2O, it is actually one of the better liquids to use

it has a very high specific heat capacity, it takes a long time for its temperature to raise when compared to other liquids

and it's readily available

in regards to the 15" TiBook - well you had to have known that a new was around the corner, because it was way behind in technology compared to the rev a ALU models. But i'm sure you bought it because you needed the computer "NOW" not a few months later when the new one's came out...

same deal in my case - i have a computer now, and it suits me fine for now, and i can afford to wait for the G5 laptops - should my computer decide that it's only good for parts in the next few days, i probably won't hesitate to purchase a current powerbook now, rather then wait an in-ornate amount of time for the G5's (well maybe till the next mac expo)

[johnnyjibbs]

I expect they will go G5 in about a year, as previously thought. At the moment, the single proc G5s aren't signigicantly faster than the current G4 offerings so they have plenty of time to get the G5 fit for a laptop. Then, expect the PowerBooks to jump to at least 2GHz G5s (single proc), probably more.

In the meantime, if you need a PowerBook, get one - they are fine machines and, if you're waiting for a G5 PB, you'll probably be waiting a long time... longer.. than.. the.. previous...PB... updates...;)

[mvc]

poo

[revenuee]

Originally posted by johnnyjibbs


In the meantime, if you need a PowerBook, get one - they are fine machines and, if you're waiting for a G5 PB, you'll probably be waiting a long time... longer.. than.. the.. previous...PB... updates...;)

well if i know my history well, and i've looked into this a few times

the G4 took 2 years before it made it into the powerbook after it's initial release in the powermac

If history will have anything to teach us, it is that we will probably be waiting till macworld 2005 before we might see a powerbook G5 - LOL ... probably see it before windows see's longhorn :rolleyes: :D

[ITR 81]

The reason I think so is because IBM already has cooling technology like this in their own laptops..so it seems like Apple could just buy this technology. If not it could take longer make similar technology for the G5's.

I believe Job's will probably release another upgrade for the laptops. Anyone remember the 1.42Ghz processor in the very short lived dual G4 Power Macs? Well I have feeling all those overstock CPU's could end up in new PB's early next yr to just use up stock and push more sales right before releasing the G5 PB's.

I'm waiting for G5 PB and G5 dual 3Ghz PM to come out next yr.

[singletrack]

Originally posted by Photorun
Not a shocker to me. Despite some naive posts in these forums the feasability of sticking a 970, even clocked down, in that small a space is going to take a lot of figuring out.

Oh come on. The G5 at full tilt isn't any hotter than some Intel and AMD chips seen in laptops, it's just Apple's slavish insistence on making their laptops slim, cool and quiet that prevents them being used.

The 970 was smaller and cooler than the 7455 at the same speeds. The processor isn't the problem. As it turned out the 7447/57 was a lot cooler than the 7455 and Apple took the option to make the laptops cooler.

[the_mole1314]

I'm betting Macworld 2005 for G5 PB.

[Lancetx]

I just want to see Apple do it right, which I'm sure they will when the time comes and G5 PowerBooks are ready. So if that means it will take another year before they're available, so be it. They'll definitely be worth the wait if they're done right.

[tristan]

I'm not convinced... I still think it's just Apple trying to defend their current product line.

My guess is PB g5s next spring or summer. A year between the g5 desktop and laptop seems like plenty of development time.

(BTW that's not a RUMOR... just a GUESS!!!)

[mania]

well, if they can at least get one into an imac i plan to buy an imac, take it apart, stick all components in a pelican case - and have me a heavy portable g5.

[Stella]

Oh well.

Life sucks!

Of course, Apple could pull a fast one at MWSF!

[revenuee]

Originally posted by singletrack
Oh come on. The G5 at full tilt isn't any hotter than some Intel and AMD chips seen in laptops, it's just Apple's slavish insistence on making their laptops slim, cool and quiet that prevents them being used.

.

you make it sound like thats a bad thing

i'm willing to wait longer for a lighter, smaller laptop ... i cringe at the thought, and sight, of those toshiba monsters.

[cb911]

i have to say that i think it will be awhile before G5 PB's. now that they've just released the new 15" they're all setup to keep bring out the revisions.

but with all the rumors of Moto not being able to produce G4's for the 15" PB who knows what will happen? it could go either way.

perhaps now they have sorted out their supply problems. saying that the G4 has some more life in it is quite a turn around from Steve Jobs calling the G4 a toy.

also everyone isn't all that happy about the 15" going to 1.1" thin. sure it's only .1", but it's a big difference when you compare it to the TiBooks, and it sure feels alot different. i doubt that Apple was happy about increasing the size. the TiBooks had become known as the 1" TiBooks. hopefully when the G5 does come to the PB it'll have some crazy powersaving features and it will run super-cool. well, maybe not super cool. :p

it would be very nice to see Apple bring out the G5 PB and say "introducing the new 1" thin G5 PowerBook". :D

[dongmin]

Originally posted by chickengrease16
while its fun to *speculate*, i think this whole jumping-ahead-of-the-gun thing is getting old. why don't we try and be atleast a little surprised (when we know a few days ahead of time, because we're the mac rumors community!) when the powerbook g5 comes out, rather than disappointed that it took so long? You do realize that this is a rumors forum. If we're not jumping ahead-of-the-gun, why the heck are we here?

[SiliconAddict]

Fine by me. I'll get a Pentium M laptop in the mean time. I have 3 grand sitting and languishing in my saving account ready for a G5. I may have to alter my signature because of this. I'm not going to go with a CPU that gets its butt handed to it by the Pentium M:
http://www.barefeats.com/al15b.html

From the specs I see 1.6Ghz Pentium M is aprox twice as fast as a 1.33 G4. I don't mind paying a premium for the Porsche of the computer world but I expect that when I hit the gas it's going to smoke the competition. I'm not seeing this in those benchmarks.

So in the tradition of Seinfeld’s soup nazi I say to Apple NO SALE FOR YOU! :( Pity. That 17" Powerbooks looks sexy but I’m not spending 3 grand on half the performance. I may be a tad crazy not stupid. :p

[dongmin]

Originally posted by tristan
I'm not convinced... I still think it's just Apple trying to defend their current product line.

My guess is PB g5s next spring or summer. A year between the g5 desktop and laptop seems like plenty of development time.

(BTW that's not a RUMOR... just a GUESS!!!)

My guess: not the next update, but the one after that. So a year from now. That's Sept/Oct 2004. After the 90nm-process 970s are rumored to be out, before Steve's "end of the year."

[snofseth]

Originally posted by tristan
I'm not convinced... I still think it's just Apple trying to defend their current product line.

My guess is PB g5s next spring or summer. A year between the g5 desktop and laptop seems like plenty of development time.

(BTW that's not a RUMOR... just a GUESS!!!)
I agree or I hope its true I'm sure apple aready has a few prototypes of a powerbook g5 now i hope its a case new design although the overall case of my 12" is good it seems to have afew achilies heals 1 the footpads 2 the lack of eveness/ flushness in the alluminum and the heat. I hope they announce the new powerbooks in time for school next year like sometime in june I don't think I have a chance of being able to talk my parents into buying me a new one untli atleast next school year if then.

[Romanesq]

Well I was also one of the crazies that thought maybe it was just possible Apple could muster the engineering to put a G5 into a PB. This after even their own deliveries of the dual were not yet on the horizon (at least to the bulk of those who had ordered).

Now, it's been repeatedly said by various elements at Apple that they can't deliver this all too soon and the choir just can't bear to hear that news.

Well it may be propaganda, time will tell, but I've already capitulated with a 15" 1.25 pb.

It's such a great machine and with Panther, it's just so much greater.

Desktops be damned but these machines can do so much for so many, it doesn't make much sense living (and waiting) in the clouds.

The day will come and when it comes, we'll most likely all applaud. But we waited so long for the 15 alum, I can't imagine Apple will be able to change the stream the way its ebbing now.

If I'm wrong more power to those saving their nickels for that day. :D

[dongmin]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
From the specs I see 1.6Ghz Pentium M is aprox twice as fast as a 1.33 G4. Sure, why not. The IBM T40 is a sweet machine; I'd get one if the OS didn't matter.

But I don't know where you get that the 1.6 ghz centrino is TWICE as fast. According to normalized ps7bench scores (http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=1150967585), the 1.0 ghz G4 PB comes at about 20% slower than a 1.6 ghz centrino. The 1.33 ghz G4 should be pretty much even.

Of course, this is only photoshop, where the G4 has traditionally done well. But PowerBook G4 owners I know spend way more time doing photoshop than running stuff like UT2003 or Cinema 4D (does anyone really use it for serious work?).

[Sol]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
So in the tradition of Seinfeld’s soup nazi I say to Apple NO SALE FOR YOU! :(

Actually, the Soup Nazi said "No soup for you!"

Based on your mistake I can assume that you are the kind of person who thinks that close enough is good enough. I think you should go ahead and purchase a Windows laptop. It will not be a PowerBook running OS X but for you close enough will be good enough.

[plinkoman]

ok, someone want to show me the proof that the G5 is so overwhelmingly hot? everyone thinks it is because of 9 fans and a huge heatsink, but first of all, there are 4 separate cooling zones, the 9 fans are not all cooling the cpu, its only 2 fans per cpu, and those are very slow moving fans to keep it quiet, and the massive heatsink is there so a fan doesn't have to be put ontop of the heatsink. so instead of 1 fast and loud fan ontop of the cpu, there is one on each side that are slower and quieter with a larger heatsink. unless anyone shows me actual proof otherwise, i guarentee the G5 is right around the same heat as a G4, and the 90nm process will make it even cooler.

i stand by my prediction of june or july next year, or even sooner, they are just trying to keep sales up on current powerbooks by saying this stuff.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Sol
Actually, the Soup Nazi said "No soup for you!"

Based on your mistake I can assume that you are the kind of person who thinks that close enough is good enough. I think you should go ahead and purchase a Windows laptop. It will not be a PowerBook running OS X but for you close enough will be good enough.

How would saying soup make sense in this situation? Hence the reason I said "in the tradition" instead of "as the soup nazi would say". :rolleyes: Let me guess you are one of those people that repair spelling errors in everyone's post right?

If you were trying for a zinger. Try again.

[Dippo]

Just think of the battery life of a laptop that has to constantly run pumps to pump the water and fans to blow the heat away. I'd say 20-30mins :)

[Sol]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
How would saying soup make sense in this situation? Hence the reason I said "in the tradition" instead of "as the soup nazi would say".

What is wrong with saying 'soup' in the context of a laptop sale? When people use a phrase like 'apples and oranges' to describe comparisons between computers they do not change it to 'Apples and PCs' or 'Apples and Windows'.

No soup for you!

[billyboy]

Even if IBM and Apple solved the technical issues and could produce a G5 PB by Christmas, as a hypothetical example, Id have thought the timing of release would be wholly dependent on marketing policy and that amazing laptop would gather dust till the right time for optimum sales. The current G4 generation is one of Apple´s best selling lines, the G$ Powermac wasnt. One has a lot of life in it, the other needed the upgrade big time, and got it.

Maybe Apple are actually getting their just rewards for developing such a sophisticated G4 laptop ahead of the pack.

[Sol]

Originally posted by billyboy
Maybe Apple are actually getting their just rewards for developing such a sophisticated G4 laptop ahead of the pack.

Apple are getting their just rewards and it shows in their laptop sales. Certain people (who mis-quote the Soup Nazi) may point to benchmarks where Windows laptops supposedly beat PowerBooks but these facts have little relevance in practice. Apple has created a laptop thinner than any other with all the built-in features you could need. By comparison, the bleeding edge PC laptops run hot, have very short battery times and are too bulky to be considered trully portable.

[Phil Of Mac]

It may not be hard to get a G5 into a PowerBook. However, it probably is hard to get a G5 that's appreciably faster than a G4 into a PowerBook.

Steve said "by the end of 2004". Early summer 2004 would be a 9 month product cycle, which sounds only reasonable. And, when Steve says "by the end of" a given year, he's overshooting. Panther and iTMS Windows were both "by the end of 2003" for instance.

[Phil Of Mac]

Just an addendum:

As far as liquid cooling, antifreeze is both a better coolant and more safe to use in sub-32 degree temperatures. Here at WSU I am VERY aware of this :D

[xone]

Macwhispers "G5 powerbooks at WWDC"- LOL! :rolleyes:

I guess Apple can't spin laptops as desktop replacements unless it's replacing an iMac.


And Sol, sorry but you did come across as a weiner...

[CrackedButter]

IF the G4 is staying with us a little longer than they had better implement DDR support at least, how long has DDR been out now?

[CoreForce]

End 2004 fit to the IBM roadmap to put the G5 to a smaller process, if I remember correctly.

I could imagine that Apple got some discount out of the G4 as it was outsourced to this other company by Motorola. It would be sick not to profit from that cash as long as possible.

At least now we all know what our best x-mas present will be in 2004.



(Just a comment from a guy who was about to shop a 17'' PB and discoverd MacRumors the day before, "announcing" G5 PB's. That was early 2003. Waiting for G5 PB since. Apple should sue you for breaking business. However, I'm confessed the G4 does not make sense these days any more. ;-)

[iHack]

Originally posted by Manatee
If they cool it with liquid, the heat would still have to be dispersed without roasting the rest of the components in the case. What they could do instead, is have two ports where the user connects it to a vein and an artery, and cools it with his/her own blood. The blood would be body temperature - still much cooler than the processor, and would harmlessly disperse the heat throughout the body. The only roadblock to this idea is installing the lines into the body. Maybe the Mac Geniuses at the Apple stores could be trained to do this. However, all the people who live far from Apple stores would still be out of luck. They could include a do-it-yourself kit with the PowerBooks, but there might be liability issues.

Now this thread is getting interesting :D
How do you propose do we do fast user switching? Safely? I.e. without catching each others diseases - this makes sharing your 'book as dangerous as sharing a needle! :p

Originally posted by ThomasJefferson
How does one go about getting a name like "chickengrease16"? Must be a Tallahassee thing.

I spent a week there one day.

Panama City - much better location.
Wow. You can spend a week in one day. Waiting for a G5 powerbook must be no problem at all :)
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Just an addendum:

As far as liquid cooling, antifreeze is both a better coolant and more safe to use in sub-32 degree temperatures. Here at WSU I am VERY aware of this :D

You are aware antifreeze is just water with additives? BTW and as far as I'm aware, water has the highest specific energy of all liquids (that's joules per liter per degree Kelvin or calories per fl.ounce per degree Fahrenheit or something unsystematic like that to Americans). That would make water the ideal liquid for transporting heat.

M.

[singletrack]

Originally posted by Sol
Apple are getting their just rewards and it shows in their laptop sales. Certain people (who mis-quote the Soup Nazi) may point to benchmarks where Windows laptops supposedly beat PowerBooks but these facts have little relevance in practice. Apple has created a laptop thinner than any other with all the built-in features you could need. By comparison, the bleeding edge PC laptops run hot, have very short battery times and are too bulky to be considered trully portable.

Someone seems to have let a post in from a year ago? Before the Pentium-M.

[Darren]

Has anyone heard anything about the possibility of faster G4s - over a year is a long time to wait for a speed bump.

Is the 7457 at the end of its life at current speeds or could it be pushed a little further?

Perhaps a G3 with Altivec :D

[singletrack]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
Just an addendum:

As far as liquid cooling, antifreeze is both a better coolant and more safe to use in sub-32 degree temperatures. Here at WSU I am VERY aware of this :D


Antifreeze is used to stop the water from freezing or boiling. It's not as good as water at carrying heat away. Otherwise we'd be running pure antifreeze in our cars instead of mostly water.

[singletrack]

Originally posted by Darren
Has anyone heard anything about the possibility of faster G4s - over a year is a long time to wait for a speed bump.

Is the 7457 at the end of its life at current speeds or could it be pushed a little further?

Perhaps a G3 with Altivec :D

Motorola roadmaps have them going up to 2Ghz and still with a 10W goal and they are talking about Dual Core and Rapid-IO.

http://e-www.motorola.com/files/sndf/doc/reports_presentations/SNDF2003_EUROPE_H1101.pdf

If they pull that off it'll be a very good laptop CPU but the question to ask is 'Are they going to deliver'?

[kristianm]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
It may not be hard to get a G5 into a PowerBook. However, it probably is hard to get a G5 that's appreciably faster than a G4 into a PowerBook.

Steve said "by the end of 2004". Early summer 2004 would be a 9 month product cycle, which sounds only reasonable. And, when Steve says "by the end of" a given year, he's overshooting. Panther and iTMS Windows were both "by the end of 2003" for instance.

I think he is just shooting. He doesn't know but likes to give approx. dates. Which is fine with me. Much better than the silence that Apple usually gives.

It will be here when it comes, and unless it is at an obvious time, like WWDC or MWSF we probably won't guess it. Apple is ahead of the rumors crowd at the moment.

[stockscalper]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac:

It may not be hard to get a G5 into a PowerBook. However, it probably is hard to get a G5 that's appreciably faster than a G4 into a PowerBook .

Think 980 chip with faster bus, 7200rpm hard drive and 64 bit processing power.

[Dont Hurt Me]

a g5 is faster at the same clock as a g4 make no mistake, all they are waiting for is the smaller process. this has been talked about a bunch of times, next summer, and by then they should have all kinds of apps that know how to use that G5.

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by Sol
Apple are getting their just rewards and it shows in their laptop sales. Certain people (who mis-quote the Soup Nazi) may point to benchmarks where Windows laptops supposedly beat PowerBooks but these facts have little relevance in practice. Apple has created a laptop thinner than any other with all the built-in features you could need. By comparison, the bleeding edge PC laptops run hot, have very short battery times and are too bulky to be considered trully portable. Oh, come on. The Mac laptops are nice, esp. the new iBooks (for the money), but guess what? Windows machines are getting pretty nice too these days.

Even a cheapie Dell (I picked up a 1.4ghz Inspiron for $1300 for work) can outmuscle the current G4s at a lot of tasks (compiling, database work, et cetera is much faster). The PM (Centrino) processors only put out around 22W of power (and have power-saving features to drop that down most of the time) - hardly running hot and pulling the battery down. It gets around 3.5-4 hours real-world battery life (without minimal screen brightness) and

Is it perfect? No, not even close. But when it comes to battery life, and heat, the modern Windows laptops are at least the equals of the Macs. They weren't when the G4 powerBooks first came out, but that was quite some time ago, remember? The PM chip is about as fast (specInt/Fp) as the G5, clock-for-clock (its a far better design than the P4, or worse, the P4M) and is already shipping at 1.7ghz with around 22W consumption.

Just because Motorola didn't do any work to make the G4 better for years, don't assume that intel hasn't done anything on its lines either.

-Richard

[jmerk]

the last time people were arguing the G5 powerbook arrival time, i offered up a friendly bet that they would not see the light of day until AT LEAST Fall 2004. i mentioned that dissenters should keep my post and if i am wrong berate me heartily and i will accept my error in estimation like a man.
i stand by my call.
with that being said, i am VERY tempted to offer a friendly bet that we see a G5 powerbook before we see a 2.0 ghz G4, w/ a dual core, rapid i/o and 10w power consumption.
in case anyone forgot, when motorola spun off their processor unit, they said they were going to focus more on embedded chip production (this largely leaves apple as an afterthought [like usual]).
i have the Rev. A. 12" powerbook and i love it. do i wish i had a dvi out? yes. do i wish i could get more RAM into it? yes. does that stop me from running a ton of apps at once and being productive? no.
from the perspective of an early adopter (original 15" rev. a. powerbook G4 and now rev. a. 12" powerbook) if you need a laptop that is truly portable RIGHT NOW, get the 12" powerbook. if you can get by for a year. wait it out for the G5.
if you want to say you have the "fastest" chip in your "laptop" (read "laptop" as hulking mass of ugly plastic, with a windows "operating system") then get yourself a machine with a Pentium M and go hang out on the pc rumor sites where you can talk about the next "innovations" from Monopolosoft while we talk about the "next big thing."

j

[neilw]

Motorola roadmaps have them going up to 2Ghz and still with a 10W goal and they are talking about Dual Core and Rapid-IO.

http://e-www.motorola.com/files/snd...UROPE_H1101.pdf

If they pull that off it'll be a very good laptop CPU but the question to ask is 'Are they going to deliver'?


Well, that roadmap does say 25W for the 1.5 GHz/dual core; at that point Apple could just use a G5. Although they talk about keeping power under 10W, they are very thin on info about exactly what they're going to deliver, and when.

As always, as you point out, the problem is whether Motorola can execute in a reasonable time frame. If they could keep up a good pace of acceleration of the G4 (and make no mistake, that dual-core chip sounds pretty nifty) then it would be an OK placeholder until the G5 is ready for portability. But the pace of PowerBook performance increase relative to other platforms (PowerMac, PC notebooks) has been very slow, and it's hard to see how Motorola is suddenly going to get its butt in gear.

[Sol]

Originally posted by neilw
If [Motorola] could keep up a good pace of acceleration of the G4 (and make no mistake, that dual-core chip sounds pretty nifty) then it would be an OK placeholder until the G5 is ready for portability.

This dual-core G4 sounds like something that should have come after Apple started offering dual-processor PowerMacs. If dual-core G4s come out next year I would not get too excited over them. The G5s have the fastest motherboard and by that time the processors will be fabricated at 90 nm with GHz ratings around 3. Having said that, iBook and eMac buyers would benefit the most from next-gen G4s.

[WK2003]

hmm...i hope Powerbook G5 doesn't come out any time sooon, as i just got my sweet 15" Al-book at 1.25GHz....it's more than i'd ever need as a college student....

And for SiliconAddict: i feel sorry for u that u have ONLY $3000 to spend on a notebook running all your pro apps....as for apple vs. PC....who buys a Bentley cuz it has the fastest and technologically-advanced engines???:o

[spaceballl]

I read someplace that Motorola´s 90nm process is going to be nearing completion toward the end of 2003, and ready for production in early 2004. Any confirmation of this?

Apple can pull an AMD-like move and push the FSB of the G4 to 200 mhz and add DDR400 memory without too much trouble. I don´t suspect the gain will be that great, but I dunno. A couple hundred more mhz are sure to be had at least after the 90nm move, swap the Pro version of ATi´s 9600 into the laptop, and the faster RAM and FSB... that´s a significant boost while staying on the same CPU. But it´s no G5...

-Kevin

[plinkoman]

why are people talking about placeholders until the G5? most if not all of you are guessing a year or less, what they have now is a fine untill then, all they need is just a small update sometime early next year, which even motorola can probably deliver.

[dongmin]

Originally posted by singletrack
Motorola roadmaps have them going up to 2Ghz and still with a 10W goal and they are talking about Dual Core and Rapid-IO.

http://e-www.motorola.com/files/sndf/doc/reports_presentations/SNDF2003_EUROPE_H1101.pdf

If they pull that off it'll be a very good laptop CPU but the question to ask is 'Are they going to deliver'? if you believe anything Moto has to say about the future of G4, well I have a great deal on the Brooklyn Bridge for ya.

2 ghz ... sure
dual core ... ok
10w ... uh huh

[1macker1]

How about fixing the new 15" G4's before they start working on the new G5's.

[lha72]

Apple has a very valid reason to hold off on putting the G5 in the powerbook - it have to get rid of all the old parts which they and their suppliers still have in stock. Why release a G5 powerbook when in all probability there are a few hundred thousand Motorola G4's acquired at fire sale prices taking up shelf space in the warehouse.

Also, there are still lots of G4 motherboards still in the pipeline, and being cranked out by the factory. It will take awhile to ramp up G5 motherboard production.

So why rush and announce a G5 powerbook, other than to pull an Osborne, and announce something to the effect of, "You think this powerbook is great, wait until you see the one we are releasing next year." Anyone remember what happened to Osborne Computer after that move?

Additionally, Apple can't put the G5 on the G4 motherboard, like they did when they used G3 motherboards in the first G4's (the Apple 386sx move).

I need a new laptop, but I'm not buying yesterday's technology at inflated prices - especially considering it will in all probability go unsupported in the not-to-distant future when Apple converts entirely to G5 and 64 bit apps. If I get real desperate for a new laptop I'll pick up a Dull or Goatway for half the G4 price, and treat it as a throw-away machine in two years, just like the G4 will be.

This isn't meant to be a flame or criticism, just an observation based on 30-plus years of computer use.

[ThomasJefferson]

Originally posted by lha72
I need a new laptop, but I'm not buying yesterday's technology at inflated prices - especially considering it will in all probability go unsupported in the not-to-distant future when Apple converts entirely to G5 and 64 bit apps. If I get real desperate for a new laptop I'll pick up a Dull or Goatway for half the G4 price, and treat it as a throw-away machine in two years, just like the G4 will be.

You crush me Iha72. Just when I was starting to warm up to the idea of parting with some cash -and had a gloriously flimsy rationalization in full bloom- you strike it down with no mercy. ugh ...

[Darren]

Originally posted by plinkoman
why are people talking about placeholders until the G5? most if not all of you are guessing a year or less, what they have now is a fine untill then, all they need is just a small update sometime early next year, which even motorola can probably deliver.

Where have the iBooks got to move? It will be a long time before we see a G5 iBook!

iBooks are not far behind Powerbooks now - if there is not much movement from Moto, will we still have the same iBooks in two years time?

[Phil Of Mac]

G5 iBook should be in late 2004 or early 2005.

[Darren]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
G5 iBook should be in late 2004 or early 2005.

Even assuming end of 2004 for G5 Powerbooks means October 2004 (like iTunes Win & Panther), this means the iBooks would change processor within a few months of the Powerbooks.

Is this realistic? Has it happened before?

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by Darren
Even assuming end of 2004 for G5 Powerbooks means October 2004 (like iTunes Win & Panther),

I'm betting earily summer.

Originally posted by Darren
this means the iBooks would change processor within a few months of the Powerbooks.

Is this realistic? Has it happened before?

Original iBook was released in September 1999. Lombard was released in May.

[Roller]

Originally posted by 1macker1
How about fixing the new 15" G4's before they start working on the new G5's.

Good point. Maybe the holdup for G5 PowerBooks is because Apple is figuring how to make spot-free displays and latches that latch. :)

[plinkoman]

Originally posted by Darren
Where have the iBooks got to move? It will be a long time before we see a G5 iBook!

iBooks are not far behind Powerbooks now - if there is not much movement from Moto, will we still have the same iBooks in two years time?

i was refering only to powerbooks, but either way, the G4's in the pb's now, up to 1.33GHz and twice the cache as the ibooks would certainly be more then acceptable in an ibook a year from now, they could probably squeeze that until early to mid 2005. and they will probably have to move the ibooks up to G5 quicker then the G4 move because eventually 64bit will be the standard and a 32bit machine will be useless. so in reality, i don't think any placeholders are neccesary.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by plinkoman
i was refering only to powerbooks, but either way, the G4's in the pb's now, up to 1.33GHz and twice the cache as the ibooks would certainly be more then acceptable in an ibook a year from now, they could probably squeeze that until early to mid 2005. and they will probably have to move the ibooks up to G5 quicker then the G4 move because eventually 64bit will be the standard and a 32bit machine will be useless. so in reality, i don't think any placeholders are neccesary.

I agree, but not for the same reason.

THe G4 you could say the same thing for regarding AltiVec. But the G4 switchover took forever. Why? Low quantities. The G5 switchover will be quicker. Why? IBM needs more volume from Fishkill, and more G5's would be great for that. Also, a one-processor product lineup and quick G5 migration across the line--not for 64-bitness alone, but because the chip is so pimp--will be advantageous for Apple.

[plinkoman]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
I agree, but not for the same reason.

THe G4 you could say the same thing for regarding AltiVec. But the G4 switchover took forever. Why? Low quantities. The G5 switchover will be quicker. Why? IBM needs more volume from Fishkill, and more G5's would be great for that. Also, a one-processor product lineup and quick G5 migration across the line--not for 64-bitness alone, but because the chip is so pimp--will be advantageous for Apple.

well still, altivec only enhances processing, but once 64bit is the standard, you would have to make everything 64bit, no 64bit application is going to work on 32bit hardware. either way, i expect everything to be G5 by mid 2005

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by WK2003
hmm...i hope Powerbook G5 doesn't come out any time sooon, as i just got my sweet 15" Al-book at 1.25GHz....it's more than i'd ever need as a college student....

And for SiliconAddict: i feel sorry for u that u have ONLY $3000 to spend on a notebook running all your pro apps....as for apple vs. PC....who buys a Bentley cuz it has the fastest and technologically-advanced engines???:o

Make no mistake about it. I didn't just plunk down 3000 off the money tree. I've been saving since early summer for a new notebook. This is more then a little annoying and excuse me for wanting something compairable to the PC world's computers. Again, as I've stated before, I have no problems handing over a few extra hundred for a quality notebook as long as its speed is about equal to that of the competition. The benchmarks I posted don't reflect this. Also this isn't about pro apps and their uses, even though I do plan on doing FCE video editing on it, its about future proofing the system as much as possible. Don't you think at some point Apple is going to release a version of OS X that takes better advantage of the G5's 64-bit ness. The much touted 64-bit OS revolution everyone keeps stating is on the way.. Yes for now the only reason for a 64-bit processor is RAM but long term the OS and the apps will be able to better utilize that 64-bit pipe. I would perfer a laptop that is ready for that day rather then have to upgrade yet again when that day arrives.

[DakotaGuy]

Originally posted by revenuee
from my knowledge of the compound H2O, it is actually one of the better liquids to use

it has a very high specific heat capacity, it takes a long time for its temperature to raise when compared to other liquids

and it's readily available

H2O would be a poor choice for the fact that below 32 degrees F or 0 degrees C it freezes. Say you live up north and happen to forget your Powerbook out in your car overnight during the winter, not a good deal!

[revenuee]

Originally posted by Abercrombieboy
H2O would be a poor choice for the fact that below 32 degrees F or 0 degrees C it freezes. Say you live up north and happen to forget your Powerbook out in your car overnight during the winter, not a good deal!

Excellent point

Hows this for a contra?

when the water freezes, you've got ice, keeping your processor even colder

yes i won't be surprised if you tell me that this is a terrible defense. LOL :D :) ;)

[Phil Of Mac]

When it freezes, it also expands. Ice is less dense than water.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
When it freezes, it also expands. Ice is less dense than water.

i had thought about that as well, so then i concluded that there would be enough space to account for this expansion. :D

[Phil Of Mac]

The PowerBook would also steam, by the way ;)

[manitoubalck]

Originally posted by Macrumors
One subsequent rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/09/20030923152753.shtml) hinted that Apple was testing liquid cooling to overcome these obstacles.

I can see it now, water cooling on a laptop, wait a sec I just have to set up the radiatior before I turn it on.

However water cooling on the tower G5 or a G5 Xserve would be a plus, but I can't see apple selling external radiators.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
The PowerBook would also steam, by the way ;)

not if the water was contain in a sealed contianer :D

[PeteyKohut]

Originally posted by Sheebahawk
I think I remember the task of putting a g4 in a powerbook seemed daunting back then. I've got faith that whatever apple does'll tur out to be the best portable in its time.

You said it! I know quite a few folks who said, when the G4 tower came out, that it would be years before we would see a G4 portable, because how in the world could you get a monster like the G4 into a portable. And then, in Jan 2001, not only do we see a portable g4, but in a 1 in thin laptop!

[MacCoaster]

Hmm, to get iBook G4 or to get PowerBook G4, that is the question.

Sigh, probably the iBook.

[dieselg4]

If Moto can't deliver a faster G4 for powerbooks, does anyone think an Altivec enhanced 750gx (IBM) could be branded G4 and used in the next PB revision?

[plinkoman]

Originally posted by dieselg4
If Moto can't deliver a faster G4 for powerbooks, does anyone think an Altivec enhanced 750gx (IBM) could be branded G4 and used in the next PB revision?

the G3's life is through. apple will just keep the G4 around in whatever form untill everything is G5, because, eventually, 64bit will become standard. the G4 will still do ok in low end machines up untill mid 2005, in which i predict everything will become G5.

and the 750gx doesn't have altivec, that was only a rumor.

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by dieselg4
If Moto can't deliver a faster G4 for powerbooks, does anyone think an Altivec enhanced 750gx (IBM) could be branded G4 and used in the next PB revision?

It's possible, but then again, so are alien abductions. There's no evidence for it. I wish people would shut up about it.

[dongmin]

For sure, moving the iBook to the G4 is a nail in the G3 coffin. Apple is consolidating architectures.

The G5 is definitely the wave of the future. The question is, which variant of the G5 will go into the portables? The 90nm 970? The 980? Or the cut-down 970 that's rumored to go into the new Xbox?

[pigwin32]

Hmm, gotta love wild and uninformed speculation masquerading as fact, here's my contribution:

Remember the Osbourne? The early announcement of their next release killed the product and the company because subsequently no-one was buying their current product. So of course Apple isn't going to tell everyone about the G5 pb waiting in the wings. I would like to see it earlier rather than later and I'm voting for mid-2004 at the latest. Why?

1. Jobs hates Motorola
2. Motorola had great difficulty providing G4 chips with even a minor speed bump. There's no way they're going to be able to provide any significant speed improvements in the near future.
3. As reported in Mac Rumors, IBM is sampling 90nm G5 chips that will run cooler at similar speeds with volume production Q2 (plus IBM appears to be able to deliver when they say they will).
4. Apple is going to be pulling out the stops to get these things into the powerbook line because despite the moofing and notwithstanding decent product sales, the last powerbook update was underwhelming.
4a. Apple must have been preparing for this for some time so the chipset to go with the new processor has been developed in parallel.
5. I want one. Instead of buying the new 15" AlBook I bought a 7200rpm 60GB drive for my TiBook 667 plus a copy of 10.3 and guess what, it's like a whole new machine. So I can wait a while. As an aside, what other company delivers a new operating system that makes your current hardware go faster? Normally an OS upgrade is closely followed by a hardware upgrade.

To beat up on those Windows notebooks Apple is going to have to deliver a higher resolution screen which I think was missing from the last revision. A faster hard drive as standard (this is the premium product line right?), plus a faster processor that is demonstrably equivalent to or faster than the PC world, and all this in a fabulous enclosure because we Mac dudes like our boxes pretty.