Apple PDA?

[MacRumors]

While it may simply be speculation, one columnist (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1369270,00.asp) claims "there's good reason to believe that a jazzy new Newton II will be forthcoming, perhaps in January" from Apple.

The original Newton was created by Apple in the early 90's and represented the first Personal Digital Assistant (PDA). The early Newtons were met with substantial criticism for its handwriting recognition. This technology was significantly improved in later revisions and later became integrated into Mac OS X as "Inkwell".

Quicktime movies of a Newton 2000 in action:

Say Hello to Newton (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonsayhello.mov)
Newton Assistant (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonassistant.mov)
Newton Trash (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtontrash.mov)

Rumors of an Apple-branded tablet resurfaced last year (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030221004455.shtml) from traditionally accurate sources. (eWeek (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/01/20030105192925.shtml), ThinkSecret (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/01/20030103154848.shtml)) However, Jobs has been publicly skeptical (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/09/20020911210852.shtml) of the concept of tablets:

We're not sure the tablet PC will be successful. It's turned into a notebook that you can write on. Do you want to handwrite all your e-mail? We have all the technology ourselves to do that - we just don't know whether it will be successful.

[punter]

AGAIN?!

This author has nothing, he's just guessing. Maybe he is right, but it's nothing to get your (or my) hopes up about.

I would like an Apple phone, but listening to Jobs talk at that investors conference makes me rule that one out.

[the_mole1314]

The 'columnist' that said this was Devorak, the same guy who hates Apple and wants them to drop out.

Yeah, that's going to happen.

[Xero]

i agree this seems super unlikely. and if it were any decent small size, it would probably screw over a lot of iPod sales...

hm..

[azdude]

Yuk. Apple creates new markets... re-entering a horribly super-saturated one would be bad.

[revenuee]

One of these comes out like once a year.... people are still talking about the iPod becoming a PDA soon, or having a video screen .... i would wait till january to get exited

[Hemingray]

Unfortunately, that's gotta be complete and utter shash, but if they did make a new Newton, I'd buy one in a flat second.

[innervision]

this rumor just won't die!! i don't see it happening though, esp. given Jobs' public statements against PDA's

[cr2sh]

Why would Apple release such a product in January? That'd be a perfect Christmas gift..

[PGant]

Unsubstantiated claims and idle speculation amounts to little more than lazy reporting or tripe-like filler to satisfy an editor requested word-count for a column.

Sorry, but this guy has zero credibility in my books. When I see his columns, in don't even stop to read the headline before I turn the page.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by cr2sh
Why would Apple release such a product in January? That'd be a perfect Christmas gift..

Because with it's crappie shipping these days , it would never get here on Christmas :D ;) :rolleyes:

[punter]

what is newton 2000? Those (newly posted) movies look cool, even if they are black and white.

Nice editing on my previous post arn :) Sorry!

[snahabed]

Jobs knows that the future is smartphones. It was only a matter of time before the right form factor came along... the Treo 600 is about as good as it comes in that area. Once technology is cheaper and more advanced, products like it will take off.

Standalones are dying off. Jobs has predicted that for years.

As cool as it would be to have an Apple smartphone with OS X Lite, it ainnnnt gonna happen.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by punter
what is newton 2000? Those (newly posted) movies look cool, even if they are black and white.

Nice editing on my previous post arn :) Sorry!

i'm pretty sure this is an older product that apple tried doing... i recall those were commercials or advertisements of some sort.

[arn]

Originally posted by revenuee
i'm pretty sure this is an older product that apple tried doing... i recall those were commercials or advertisements of some sort.

The Newton 2000 was the last revision of the Newton. Released in 1997 or so.

Those are videos I recorded myself.

arn

[Photorun]

After Jobs said to a guy in 97 at a conference "I'll tell you what you can do with that Newton" [as in up his arse] when a guy asked what he can do for continued support, I find it incredibly improbable Jobs would ever resurrect something that wasn't created during his tenure. He's repeatedly said that the PDA market is saturated and he doesn't feel that it'd be wise to enter a field that currently is having financial pains. File the rumor with the dry ice cooled G6 Powerbooks due next week running at 4.7 TBs.

[SiliconAddict]

I wish. I think we already had our hell freeze over event for the millennium.

My Messagepad 2100 is starting to show its age. I would kill for an update. When I look at my Jornada Pocket PC and consider what would have happened if the Messsagepad never got the Ax it makes me want to break down and cry.

Damn Jobs for killing my baby :( Damn him and his arrogant attitude. One of three things will need to happen before the Newton returns.
1. Jobs dies.
2. Jobs retires.
3. A massive coup by all the Newton fans still out there.

[DGFan]

LOL

John Dvorak....the historical fountain of wisdom for all things Apple.

[Spock]

I would like it if Apple made the Newton OS Open source. I would love to put Newton OS 2.1 on my Palm Tungsten.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by DGFan
LOL

John Dvorak....the historical fountain of wisdom for all things Apple.

This was from John Dvorak?!?!?:eek:

Arn you need a Page 3. :)

[whooleytoo]

Originally posted by snahabed
Jobs knows that the future is smartphones. It was only a matter of time before the right form factor came along... the Treo 600 is about as good as it comes in that area. Once technology is cheaper and more advanced, products like it will take off.

Standalones are dying off. Jobs has predicted that for years.

Yup, the thing about smartphones is they already have a killer app (telephony!) which people really need, are used to paying for, and willing to pay for. The extra functions are nice, but not enough on their own to sell the device.

Similarly the iPod has it's killer app - music playing - so there is plenty scope there for it to move into the "PDA" domain if Apple want (more like "when Apple want" if you ask me).

[ejb190]

I realize Apple probably won't enter the PDA market anytime soon. But let's play "what if?"

What if Apple did decde to get back into the PDA market? Apple has a tradition of re-inventing how a particular product functions, is perceived, and even how it functions. If instance, the iMac changed the notion of an entry level computer being boring and unfunctional. iLife brought "professional" tasks like video editing to a point where anyone could do it. And the iPod is, well, it's the iPod.

So how can the PDA be reinvented? What function or task is missing from the current crop of devices? What would make a PDA the next "must have" device?

[iEric]

I would buy one if they came out with one. But it must have iPod capabilities!..

[cubist]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
This was from John Dvorak?!?!?:eek:

Arn you need a Page 3. :)

Right. The same guy who predicted, just before the G5's came out, that the new systems would be based on the Intel Itanic. Not even out in left field - he's in the wrong stadium.

[Marble]

Dvorak strikes again.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by cubist
Not even out in left field - he's in the wrong stadium.

Pure Genuis ... may i use that in my sig?

[Jerry Spoon]

With all the complaints, can I ask you arn, why isn't this on page2?

[arn]

Originally posted by Jerry Spoon
With all the complaints, can I ask you arn, why isn't this on page2?

Because complaints don't decide where stories go. :)

arn

[Doraemon]

Originally posted by punter
what is newton 2000? Those (newly posted) movies look cool, even if they are black and white.

some Newton info (http://www.theapplemuseum.com/index.php?id=tam&page=pda)

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by arn
Because complaints don't decide where stories go. :)

arn

Arn you need to tag that to your sig :D

[gregorypierce]

While there are probably Newton II prototypes deep within the bowels of Apple somewhere just like there is likely a version of OSX Intel there, as with all R&D there must be a market to launch a product into. Technology by itself it just a tool, if the marketing and sales people don't think they can sell it and get in the market they way they want to - that technology may never see the light of day.

[chazmox]

If iTunes for Windows is Hell freezing over, then this event for Jobs would be like Hell opening it's ice skating rink and snow cone factory.

I do see the iPod growing in functionality and bluring the lines somewhat ( maybe as a personal media center ), but I think Dvorak may be making this up out of the same cloth as his constant cries for a x86 Mac.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by gregorypierce
While there are probably Newton II prototypes deep within the bowels of Apple somewhere just like there is likely a version of OSX Intel there, as with all R&D there must be a market to launch a product into. Technology by itself it just a tool, if the marketing and sales people don't think they can sell it and get in the market they way they want to - that technology may never see the light of day.

Unless all the Macrumor users band together and pull a mission impossible style raid on Apple HQ. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/worried.gif Everyone’s dressed up in black turtleneck sweaters and jeans to fool security. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/ninja.gif *mumbles* Widows sucks as he passes past a security guard.*

I get first dibs on the iWalk and the iPod holo projector :D

[MorganX]

I actually owned 2 Newtons. Terriffic piece of hardware. For it's time, I really never understood all the complaining about the recognition.

It did get a little heavy, but for it's time, it was a masterpiece. I'd give a Newton II a look for sure. It would have to have broad connectivity and work with a broad range of software and services.

[nostradamus]

Yes I am one of those scorned Newton owners! I spent lots and lots of money on Newtons in the past. Let's think about this for a minute though. Bring back a Newton type of device not just a run of the mill 64mb 50 available to the user type of device but a HD based Newton with FULL connectivity! A huge missing equation for the origional. Synch all your stuff ala iPod and more (photos, docs, music, home folder etc) Built in airport, bluetooth with Newton OS 3 or something , that would be killer. I know I would buy and LOTS of other would

[primalman]

Originally posted by revenuee
Because with it's crappie shipping these days , it would never get here on Christmas :D ;) :rolleyes:

LOL

Not trying to be rude, but "crappie" are fish, a kind of sunfish [ie bluegill]. I think "crappy" was what you were looking for.

Made be laugh. I was wondering what their shipping had to do with lake fishing. Good start to my day!

:)

[canadianmacguy]

Originally posted by MorganX
I actually owned 2 Newtons. Terriffic piece of hardware. For it's time, I really never understood all the complaining about the recognition.

It did get a little heavy, but for it's time, it was a masterpiece. I'd give a Newton II a look for sure. It would have to have broad connectivity and work with a broad range of software and services.

And there's the rub.. Apple has problems now getting people to develop software for their platform, imagine trying to come up with a 2rd platform (which is what Newton was, completely different from Macintosh or PC development).

But dammit, like the rest of the fans out there, I really miss my Newton - programming it was awesome too.

Even the old Newton with an iSync plugin for Address Book and iCal would be awesome.

[revenuee]

Originally posted by primalman
LOL

Not trying to be rude, but "crappie" are fish, a kind of sunfish [ie bluegill]. I think "crappy" was what you were looking for.

Made be laugh. I was wondering what their shipping had to do with lake fishing. Good start to my day!

:)

thats what i get for trusting spell check :D ;) :rolleyes:

i thought that looked wrong

[Trimix]

okay, but if this thing came out, looked like a nokia 92xx, had an i-pod built in and would as could be expected of apple work seamlessly with my mac, i would be first in line and happily fork out A LOT of money.
i would camp in front of the store in a sleeping bag - i would weather blizzards, floods and sandstorms just to get it.

please SJ if you read this and it is in the back of your mind just make the battery-life ultra-long - thank you

[the_mole1314]

I don't know why people *pay* this guy money. I mean, I can talk to 10 year olds that can predict and talk about things better than what Devorak has.

I bet he has one of those wall magnet sets and just throws the word magnets on the fridge to create a new article. God, I hate that guy.

[LuckyJack]

Originally posted by Trimix
i would be first in line and happily fork out A LOT of money. And you'd have to fork out a lot of money... I just think for Apple to create a killer PDA with all the features people want (telephony, AirPort, razor-sharp graphics and a fast processor so I could watch video clips, iPod functionality) that Apple would charge, oh, I dunno, about $1500. And sure, I might buy it (while my wife rolls her eyes), but most of the general population would rather just buy a whole computer for that much money.

[electric]

I dont need a new Newton, my 2100 is working great, a tad bit over sized but extreamly reliable, infact I just used mine this morning for an alarm clock. Does anybody know where I can find these screen saver/covers ? mine is about 3 years old.

I f you spell Newton backwards you get Not wen (Not when but Not if Steve says so)

[bensisko]

Originally posted by azdude
Yuk. Apple creates new markets... re-entering a horribly super-saturated one would be bad.

Hmmm... seems to me Apple has just been very successful in doing this. Ever hear about this 'iPod' product? Apple made a portable CD player years ago, and not to mention that the mp3 player market (hard drive or no) wasn't a huge deal when the iPod entered the scene. The iPod (basically an updated version of the CD player) made the mp3 player market into what it is. Jobs seems to think that the smart phone is the hot market, and the smart phone can be thought of as just the next gen of PDA.
I don't think Apple has ever created a new market, but it has brought life back into them (at least in terms of interest). Everything Apple has ever created is an improvement on exsisting products.

[iPC]

Originally posted by chazmox
If iTunes for Windows is Hell freezing over, then this event for Jobs would be like Hell opening it's ice skating rink and snow cone factory.

I do see the iPod growing in functionality and bluring the lines somewhat ( maybe as a personal media center ), but I think Dvorak may be making this up out of the same cloth as his constant cries for a x86 Mac.
It's on the market already...

http://www.tapwave.com/index.asp

Once again, Apple will not be first. Hopefully, as before, they will be best (iPod is a great example).

[tny]

Apple just needs to start leveraging the iPod into a PDA-replacement. If they could get enough processor power into one to do a voice interface and Airport, you'd have most of what you needed to come up with a PDA-killer. But a good voice interface is YEARS away. And yes, I do use speech on my Mac.

[Trimix]

Originally posted by LuckyJack
And you'd have to fork out a lot of money... I just think for Apple to create a killer PDA with all the features people want (telephony, AirPort, razor-sharp graphics and a fast processor so I could watch video clips, iPod functionality) that Apple would charge, oh, I dunno, about $1500. And sure, I might buy it (while my wife rolls her eyes), but most of the general population would rather just buy a whole computer for that much money.

my wife would also send me to the mental asylum, but i would happily go, grinning like a madman, clutching my i-walk
seriously in the year of the laptop, $1500 would not strike me as much if it is useful to me

[MaxPower]

Originally posted by canadianmacguy


Even the old Newton with an iSync plugin for Address Book and iCal would be awesome.

Ask and ye shall recieve. Rudimentary but works!

NewtSync (http://www.everchanging.com/newton/)

[Chilton]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I have $5,000 that I will throw down like a monkey flinging dung, to buy a new Apple handheld.

But Jobs don't care. He thinks artists like to use mice, I guess. I don't want a freakin' smartphone. I don't want an MP3 player. I want something I can draw on, dammit. Something wireless, larger than the Palms, and smaller than a tablet (though I'd buy a tablet instead if Apple did that).

I wish I owned a business where people still wanted to buy my products half a decade after I decided I didn't like them.

-Chilton

[JohnStrass]

Originally posted by arn
The Newton 2000 was the last revision of the Newton. Released in 1997 or so.

Those are videos I recorded myself.

arn
Actually, the 2100 was the last version. I bought it 1 week after the opening of the Apple store on -line, with Jobs saying "oh, thats so cool, I have to buy two". Then he killed it 2 months later.

Anyhow, it still gives me smile when I dust it off, but its dead now. It was ideal as a laptop replacement, EXTREMELY lightweight, great add-on keyborard.

I really should give it away so some fanatic who would give it a loving home...

[Chupa Chupa]

Handwritting technology is perfect for speciality markets like the way delivery services implement it. However, for everyday use, even Palm admits its going the way of the buggy whip. The newest thing in PDAs is...a built-in old fashioned, but reliable hard key keyboard. Thats right the good 'ol QWERTY. Nobody, save a few geeks, cares about handwriting technology anymore. Get over it. Apple has.

[wdlove]

Briefly owned a Newton, just too difficult to use because the writing had to be so precise. It was more of a bother than help. If it was able to learn your writing habits, then it would be useful for taking notes in class and at meetings.

[noel4r]

Originally posted by Macrumors
[B]While it may simply be speculation, one columnist (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1369270,00.asp) claims "there's good reason to believe that a jazzy new Newton II will be forthcoming, perhaps in January" from Apple.


Yup, it is just speculation. Apple wont release a PDA, they have absolutely no reason to.

[Chilton]

... about handwriting recognition. I want to a fancy electronic doodlepad. In color. With the ability to connect to my Airport network so I can send my doodles to my Mac. That's power, baby, like a turbine-powered weasel.

The handwriting recognition in the Newton 2xxx series was, to quote Unreal Tournament, "Godlike". It rocked. Waaaaaay better than any previous version, or anything since (though I suspect it works as good in the one built into OSX).

Steve Jobs, I know you frequent the MacRumors message boards with all your copious free time. So release the Newton X already!

-Chilton

[pkradd]

This humorless, former TechTV program host has no clue. Last week reports stated that Tablet PCs were a dismal failure so far, mostly due to MS's poor OS for the computer and disatisfaction from the various manufactuers. Dvorak believes Apple will soon switch to Intel as well. He predicted that the original iMac would be a failure, ya da, ya da, ya da. His crystal ball is cracked. He throws out a lot of predicitions, but even so he's rarely correct.

[2COOL4SCHOOL]

Originally posted by electric
I dont need a new Newton, my 2100 is working great, a tad bit over sized but extreamly reliable, infact I just used mine this morning for an alarm clock.

I used the alarm clock and took a fax too. I love those Newtons, just wish I could get a new updated version. I don't think we will ever see one though. I think it's probable that someday a small ipod like device will be able to run the full Apple OS, but nothing until then.

[AmigoMac]

iPod is by now the music player, but it has to lead the main iApps, what about a color display iPod, where you can play your music, take a look at your photo collection or see one of your *.mov *.mp4 files... Take that with you... I'm sure it will happen, then I will ask Steve one for free :D ... It was my dream from yesterday. I'm looking forward to the loved 20 years...;)

[ClimbingTheLog]

There's no point to a standalone Newton II today, and Apple knows it.

If anything, we'll see a bluetooth iPod running a low-power IBM G3 system-on-a-chip with triband phone capabilities, an oled screen with InkWell, and a small version of Mac OS X, fully iSync enabled. $799.

This will be great because then I can use XCode to develop apps for this device. I can probably use it as my home directory too.

[mrsebastian]

stop the insanity! when will this rumor die? why on earth would apple make a pda when there's no money in it!?... see you all here in six months, when the rumor resurfaces.

[chazmox]

Originally posted by iPC
It's on the market already...

http://www.tapwave.com/index.asp

Once again, Apple will not be first. Hopefully, as before, they will be best (iPod is a great example).

Yes, add a 20-40Gig hardrive, OS X lite, and maybe 3G and/or WiFi ( I saw the mention of something wireless but not the spec it supported ) and I think you have something there!

[TomSmithMacEd]

How about a smartphone with an iPod in it! I know it would be about as big as the cell phone Zach used on SAved by the Bell, but I would still buy one.

[aethier]

Originally posted by arn
The Newton 2000 was the last revision of the Newton. Released in 1997 or so.

Those are videos I recorded myself.

arn

actually wasnt the message pad 2100 the latest revision?

aethier

[aethier]

Originally posted by JohnStrass
Actually, the 2100 was the last version. I bought it 1 week after the opening of the Apple store on -line, with Jobs saying "oh, thats so cool, I have to buy two". Then he killed it 2 months later.


oops, didn't notice that you already posted that.

aethier

[brainless]

Have you seen the study from Sony just released last week ? They even mentioned iPod as the device they want to position against. Unlike iPod, it is also SmartPhone/PDA and VideoPlayer and it plans to use Optical removable drive insted of harddrive.
If they stick to planned feature set and deliver this next year, Apple have to react, or there will be no market for iPod.

[bensisko]

Originally posted by brainless
If they stick to planned feature set and deliver this next year, Apple have to react, or there will be no market for iPod.

Well, that's not true. There are plenty of people out there who will prefer to stick to a dedicated music device. I think Steve was right on when he said convergence devices are not the way to go. More than likely, the only thing that would really take down the iPod is a iPaq-sized device running Windows XP and 30 hour battery that comes in at under $500, and then only on the Windows side.

That's kinda like saying that the Segway is going to kill car sales.

[Jerry Spoon]

Originally posted by arn
Because complaints don't decide where stories go. :)

arn
Sorry, let me rephrase. Do you have the same concerns about this writer as some other people on the forum have, and does that play a role in story location and with this just being a blurb with nothing (from what I can see) to back it up, does this play a role in the story location on MacRumors?

[Squire]

Originally posted by ejb190
I realize Apple probably won't enter the PDA market anytime soon. But let's play "what if?"

What if Apple did decde to get back into the PDA market? Apple has a tradition of re-inventing how a particular product functions, is perceived, and even how it functions. If instance, the iMac changed the notion of an entry level computer being boring and unfunctional. iLife brought "professional" tasks like video editing to a point where anyone could do it. And the iPod is, well, it's the iPod.

So how can the PDA be reinvented? What function or task is missing from the current crop of devices? What would make a PDA the next "must have" device?

Good point. I love buying new toys but, personally, I just can't justify the expense of a PDA. My cell phone gives me the most useful features. However, if Apple released a PDA, I'm sure it would woo the competition.

Squire

[Gelfin]

Originally posted by brainless
Unlike iPod, it is also SmartPhone/PDA and VideoPlayer and it plans to use Optical removable drive insted of harddrive.

I've never seen an integrated smartphone that's not a crappy phone AND a crappy PDA. The Palm phones? Yeesh, why bother? That's what Bluetooth is for. And the N-Gage? Let's not even go there.

I have no significant use for a portable video player, especially if it's adding bulk and dubious utility to my iPod and/or cell phone.

Oh, and optical removable drive? Why in the name of all that's holy would I ever go back to using a player with removable media? The only reason to buy a player with removable media these days is if you can't afford a player that doesn't suck.

I'm not saying the iPod can't be improved, but Apple's done a great job by not adding whiz-bang flavor of the month features just to have more bullet-points on the box. The development of the iPod is an interesting study in how you can be innovative and conservative at the same time.

Oh, and on the main point, just the fact that it comes from Dvorak is indeed a huge strike against its veracity. Dvorak was the man among PC pundits in the late 80s, early 90s, but he should've been put out to pasture around 1996. These days he banks on name recognition and that's it. He's just not as sharp as he used to be.

[ITR 81]

Apple could partner with Palm and Handspring which have expressed interest in some Apple technology. So I could actually see a Palm/Handspring rebadged and tweaked for Apple and released as an Apple product at about same prices as current PDA's on the market.

[arn]

Originally posted by Jerry Spoon
Sorry, let me rephrase. Do you have the same concerns about this writer as some other people on the forum have, and does that play a role in story location and with this just being a blurb with nothing (from what I can see) to back it up, does this play a role in the story location on MacRumors?

I think people take the page1/page2 distinction a bit too literally.

It's a pretty loose split...

I agree the author's credibility in this particular article is pretty poor... and that's reflected in the MacRumors story which states that this may simply be speculation. That being said, I do believe, based on the previously referenced old rumors that Apple very likely does have a tablet project in the works.... whether it will ever be released or not is debatable.

arn

[HasanDaddy]

I don't see Apple getting into this, unless they purchase PalmOne (who just purchased Handspring and the Treo 600)

it took a lot of $$$ to make the Treo 600 --- not even Palm could get it right with the Tungsten ---- I would imagine that Apple is using most of their money on making a G5 PowerBook and G6 Desktop - not a smartphone

and there's no point in just making a PDA anymore --- smartphones are mos def the future

[ginjg]

Originally posted by JohnStrass
Actually, the 2100 was the last version. I bought it 1 week after the opening of the Apple store on -line, with Jobs saying "oh, thats so cool, I have to buy two". Then he killed it 2 months later.

Anyhow, it still gives me smile when I dust it off, but its dead now. It was ideal as a laptop replacement, EXTREMELY lightweight, great add-on keyborard.

I really should give it away so some fanatic who would give it a loving home...

You could sell it.

There's huge Newton community thats developing os X software and hardware solutions for the Newton.

go to http://www.newtontalk.net

[xStep]

Originally posted by ejb190
I realize Apple probably won't enter the PDA market anytime soon. But let's play "what if?"

While, if they used the guts of the Powerbook..
6-8 inch wide (high color) screen, 667MHz, upto 512MB ram, 20 or 40GB iPod drive, audio in/out, two USB ports, 1 firewire port, one 10/100 ethernet, PB mini-DVI video port & S-Video, and Panther installed. Starting price $799.

To reduce size and weight I have left out the keyboard, mouse pad, CD-Rom drive, PC Card slot. And the battery wouldn't have to be as bulky as the PBs.

The ports could be offloaded to a docking bay, and replaced with WiFi technology.

Since most people would want a CD-RW drive for loading software and for backup, you'd need to give this as part of the package.

We can dream!

[Fukui]

Originally posted by PGant
Unsubstantiated claims and idle speculation amounts to little more than lazy reporting or tripe-like filler to satisfy an editor requested word-count for a column.

Sorry, but this guy has zero credibility in my books. When I see his columns, in don't even stop to read the headline before I turn the page.
But he's Devorak...he invented the keyboard! He must be all knowing!! :D

[bwilke]

The contact and calendar features of the iPod are great, but they could be greatly improved.

I would love to have a virtual keyboard on the iPod. You could use the scroll wheel to select letters.

It is a crude way to input text, but would give you the ability to add contact, calendar events, and playlist on the fly.

It seems to me that this could be added with just a firmware update.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by arn
I think people take the page1/page2 distinction a bit too literally.

It's a pretty loose split...

I agree the author's credibility in this particular article is pretty poor... and that's reflected in the MacRumors story which states that this may simply be speculation. That being said, I do believe, based on the previously referenced old rumors that Apple very likely does have a tablet project in the works.... whether it will ever be released or not is debatable.

arn

Also there's something to be said for posting a juicy rumor right smack dab on the front of the site. It gets people stired up with what if's which is always fun. :) I really enjoy this site. Maybe a bit too much. I swear one of these days someone is going to do an audit of this office and find out a high % of the traffic is going to macrumors.com :eek:

As for those complaining about where the post is located. Look at the fine print guys. http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/deal.gif Its a rumor site. No one is expecting hard facts here. At least I'm not.

Now..........http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/nonono.gif

God I can't get enough of these emoticons. :) http://www.pocketpcthoughts.com/forums/images/smiles/new_rainfro.gif

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Fukui
But he's Devorak...he invented the keyboard! He must be all knowing!! :D

Ya a really crappy keyboad IMHO. I spend 5 minutes looking for each letter when I have to go to our graphics department for tech support. I ended up putting VNC on their system so I can do it remotely.

[Mac Dummy]

Originally posted by Macrumors
While it may simply be speculation, one columnist (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,1369270,00.asp) claims "there's good reason to believe that a jazzy new Newton II will be forthcoming, perhaps in January" from Apple.

The original Newton was created by Apple in the early 90's and represented the first Personal Digital Assistant (PDA). The early Newtons were met with substantial criticism for its handwriting recognition. This technology was significantly improved in later revisions and later became integrated into Mac OS X as "Inkwell".

Quicktime movies of a Newton 2000 in action:

Say Hello to Newton (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonsayhello.mov)
Newton Assistant (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonassistant.mov)
Newton Trash (http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtontrash.mov)

Rumors of an Apple-branded tablet resurfaced last year (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/02/20030221004455.shtml) from traditionally accurate sources. (eWeek (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/01/20030105192925.shtml), ThinkSecret (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/01/20030103154848.shtml)) However, Jobs has been publicly skeptical (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2002/09/20020911210852.shtml) of the concept of tablets:

I knew that Apple would bring back the Newton, how could they let Microsoft and Palm Inc. have all the glory. Maybe this time it will have better handwriting recognition and run a miniature version of Panther, like Microsoft has done with its Pocket PC operating system, only better than Microsoft.:)

[MikeL]

Originally posted by Mac Dummy
and run a miniature version of Panther, like Microsoft has done with its Pocket PC operating system

The one thing I'm constantly amazed by in these sorts of discussions is the fixation that so many people seem to have on the idea of some kind of OS X Lite. That's an incredibly, incredibly bad idea.

Apple has the ideal handheld OS in Newton. If you ever use one, you'll instantly see how well integreted it is in terms of data usage. Palm and PocketPC are just so... crude and unimaginative. I really hate the idea of an Apple branded Palm. Palm has had all this time, and they're still dressing up the same mediocre ideas they had in 1997.

[Sabenth]

The idea of a PDA from Apple sounds great the idea becoming another realty would be fantastic ive never had the previous PDA by apple but tell you what if they moved into this area again id snap one up and add a mobile printer woo id have one ..

will it happne time will tell!!!

[pkradd]

Steve Jobs has consistently said, no Apple PDA and no Apple phone. The PDA market is too mature now. Sales are down, so Apple will not waste its time making products that are on the wane. The Sony product is vaporware at the moment. it does not exist. Any product that tries to be all things usually fails at doing any one thing well. An iPod remains basically a music player and it does that extremely well.

Mr. Dvorak has no information about a "new" Newton, it's only speculation by him. He's blowing wind through his a**. He has no clue. He's a "hack" writer.

[xbkingx]

I jumped the Apple ship after my PB G3 (Wallstreet) for various reasons, but still keep up on the rumor mill and news. Having been a Newtonian (2000 upgraded to the 2100), and having been on the PC side now for 6-7 years it has come to amaze me. What has? That Windows sucks so much? That uncreative ppl use Windows, and hipsters use Macs? No, no. It's the shear obliviousness of Mac users that is amazing. Sure, call it flaimbait, up to this it is. But face it kids. Those of us that made it through MacOS 7.5.2 are allowed to act like grumpy old-timers. Now for the on-topic part...

First, Jobs hated the Newton. He killed the Newton. He has an ego the size of a planet, and would stab himself in the eye with a spork before admitting he was wrong to do something. Those of you hoping that logic will prevail in the Jobs-mos, face the facts. Ain't happening.

Second, Apple isn't 'revolutionary'. I'm sorry. I love macs, but changing the PC case was inevitable. Maybe Apple made the first AIO pc, but that was a play that was taken from a much much much older playbook. It's called a terminal. Minimum footprint, usable but not excessive funtionality. Games that played on the iMac at a reasonable speed were few and far between, which is saying alot, since mac games at the time were few and far between (even with the 2nd generation of renewed game support - go sprockets!)

Third, if Apple isn't revolutionary, what is it? I would say PCs are 'evolutionary', which is why there are 40 versions of every component. Tiny adjustments here and there. Apple is full blown punctuated equilibrium in a design/marketing suit. Apple doesn't wait for nature (trial and error or consumer feedback) to do the job. They prefer a comet strike that wipes out all vestige of the old products outer-most shell. Revolutionary? Nah. Not like they run on gumdrops and dreams. But when they change things, they do it right the first time, after waiting almost too long. And they make a huge deal out of it (and rightly so).

Fourth, Job-atollah has been saying smartphones are the way to go? Really? You mean, several devices in one? Wait, like a 'mobile digital hub'? What a stretch... Is there anyone here that REALLY doesn't think that this is something every company knows? Right now the limitations are tech based (when was 3G supposed to debut? What is decent digital cell converage like in the US?) Symbian has been around since '98-'99. Remember the old Kyocera PalmOS phone?

Fifth, the idea that the pda market is 'saturated'. So is the PC market. Better stop making computers, too. M$ saw that they were getting a late start, and what did they do? Jumped right in with a bunch of junky Personal Digital Bricks. Last I checked they were neck and neck with PalmOS. At least Apple has a great foundation with the Newton OS. They have integrated wireless in most of their shipping products (I would assume a large number of users opt for the wireless and BT options), BT has matured, 802.11b is widespread, both are available in cheap single chips. These are the exact reasons Apple SHOULD enter the PDA market. They are the masters of rebadging older technology and throwing on an amazing interface. They've waited so long that now Sony is their only real PDA threat, and the deciding factor would be the OS. Apple doesn't like competition in the design department and there's little they can do with the PDA form factor that Sony and the new Palms haven't done. Thus the Apple Eye for the PC Guy makeover will be extremely difficult. Even in the smartphone department, the SE P900 is f$%^ing sweet. Improving it would be VERY difficult.

So what does this all mean? Apple has their work cut out for them. In the past they have relied on relaunching old ideas in a fresh, well integrated, and easy to use package. The problem? Everyone else has caught on. Tech was once geek, Apple made it chic. But now what?

Launch a PDA?
Pros- Good groundwork (I have still never seen anything close to the accuracy of the Newton HWR), would have great design, effortless sycing and communication with Apple products, considered a must have type fo device by nearly all that carry them.
Cons- Design is limited by form facator, which is limited by currently available tech, which is being excellently eploited by other companies, very late to the game, anti-PDA Jobs-onian leadership, most people that need them, already have them.

But note that the digital hub lacks two very important secondary hubs - mobile and home entertainment integration hubs. MP3s on your computer are nice. On your stereo - nicer. Games and videos on your mac are nice. On your plasma? Much nicer.

If you have't caught on by now, I'll just spit it out. Apple and Sony need to collide. Think about it. Sony is the only REAL competition threat to Apple in the design front, they are the only ones willing to take big design risks, which usually pay off, and their entire computer line, aside from their Clies and maybe a VAIO or two, is drek. They have all the vision in the world on the integration of media and computers, and the resources to take advantage of all the aspects Apple lacks - home theatre, digital imaging, digital video, and phones. The pieces of the puzzle fit _perfectly_. Both have their fanboys, which is more than enough to say, bring Apple back from the dead with the iMac, and keep the idiotically priced MemoryStick popular. And where's Sony's HD based MP3 player? None exist. Today they announced a video/audio HD based player. Notice how they each try to avoid each others markets?

I know rumors are out there on the topic, but if you look at the way things have progressed over the past few years, you have to start thinking that this is not coincidence. Maybe Apple is shying away from anything Sony-like because the competition would be so fierce. But both are respecting the other's boundaries.

I think an Apple-Sony Alliance would be the single most powerful technology lifestyle alignment. I really had to grapple for words to even describe it. They could easily own the entire electronics makeup of many, many houses.

The infomercial:
Bobby's G5 desktop is streaming MP3s and mpegs to the family PSX wirelessly (which is also the DVR and DVD player). He downloads a couple DVRed episodes of the Simpsons, inserts his sister's head on Marge's shoulders in iMovie and sends the video back to the Sony Plasma to play in the PIP, invoking a screech from his sister. He gets a call on his SonyApple smartphone, (caller ID appears on your TV and PC screen if you like). It's Billy from down the street! Bobby gets off the cell, (save your minutes, Bobby) and up pops the iChat window as the iSight camera clicks on. What's that Billy? A challenge? To the Sony Plasma, where the Sony PSX has received the challenge from Bobby's G5. Up pops EyeToy, and Bobby swats badgers back and forth at Billy, or whatever weirdo games that thing plays. Uh oh, time for homework - back to the computer to do that faux studying that usually involves some animated dinosaur on an unbranded web browser! In walks dad. The BT from his iClie smartphone syncs up his date book as he enters the room, and a reminder appears on the Plasma, along with his missed calls. He almost forgot! Bobby has a soccer game! Off to the park (but not before the stock quotes and daily news are silently updated on Dad's iClie smartphone). Dad grabs the Sony Handycam, decides to use the iClie smartphone for some quick snaps of the game. Oh, and the iPod for music. Because children playing soccer is fun for 20 seconds. Then you realize that it's pretty much a bunch of underdeveloped animals hoping seizure-like movements knock the ball in the goal enough times that dad doesn't have to make up a childhood that never existed to calm the aforementioned, now sobbing and buggery, animal. Dad and Bobby get home. Billy calls to gloat over the soccer game. Bobby hacks Billy's AIBO, and Billy falls to the ground in pain as the mechanical dog munches at his nads. Father and son laugh as the image fades out.

Anyway, my $.02, but I think it's closer to a good $1.50.
Brandon

[Squire]

Wow. You...ummm...obviously put a lot of thought- and time- into that post. I found it quite interesting, though. (Oh, and welcome to the community.)

A Sony-Apple alliance? Very interesting, indeed. (Has this been in the rumor mill for ages?) So, would Sony continue to produce Windows-equipped PCs in this Brave New World? If so, and if your take on Jobs is accurate, I can't see it happening- Bill would still get his $ for every Sony-Apple PC sold...and Steve wouldn't like that.

Hmmm...very interesting, though.

Squire

[wHo_tHe]

Originally posted by electric
I dont need a new Newton, my 2100 is working great, a tad bit over sized but extreamly reliable, infact I just used mine this morning for an alarm clock. Does anybody know where I can find these screen saver/covers ? mine is about 3 years old.=Here are Newton screen protectors:

http://www.nushield.com/products_main_newton.htm

I've used my beaten, battered Newton 2100 rigorously every single day since 1998. My 2100 can use 802.11, connect to my desktops via VNC, sync with iCal, Address Book, and Entourage, and can play MP3 files and streams.

I'd buy a new one in a heartbeat, but, until then, I'll keep using this one until it disintegrates.

[xbkingx]

Originally posted by Squire
Wow. You...ummm...obviously put a lot of thought- and time- into that post. I found it quite interesting, though. (Oh, and welcome to the community.)

A Sony-Apple alliance? Very interesting, indeed. (Has this been in the rumor mill for ages?) So, would Sony continue to produce Windows-equipped PCs in this Brave New World? If so, and if your take on Jobs is accurate, I can't see it happening- Bill would still get his $ for every Sony-Apple PC sold...and Steve wouldn't like that.

Hmmm...very interesting, though.

Squire

Haha thanx. I had a long day, and for some reason I've been bombarded by Apple stuff the last 3 days. I think the whole Newton topic set me off. :)

As far as Sony's PCs - Nope. Sony would drop their PCs. Remember that Sony also takes after Apple in that they try to integrate their products with decent, funky looking software. Remember that Sony is not afraid to take risks, like their Crusoe machines and AMD PCs. Everyone in the PC world knows that they can't keep up in the PC race. Their markup is way too high for what ppl can get elsewhere.

Brandon

[Chad]

used to own a couple newtons
the last being the 2100
sweet machine at the time I was working for HP and they gave me Jornados and a 620 (think it was the 620) anyway when I would pull it out and use it for notes etc.. everyone would ooohhh and aahhhh at how good the handwriting was on it and how cool it was to drag the text around and put it in outlines etc..

hmmmmm seems to me MS is just catching up to that now with there new notes program ;) hehehhe

anyway I would love a Newton II device about the same form factor with a great color screen etc..
would be killer as a Pro photographer would be double cool to dl images to it to check them out more and have a portable device to save to and use as a preview device etc...

while the Newton was a touch bigger it offered so much more than a Palm could (which also I have used a lot and still have one)
but they are not the same thing and with the smaller notebook style features I think Apple could do well with them

just my thoughts ;)

ahhhhh I miss my old Newtons :(

[clonenode]

Originally posted by JohnStrass
Actually, the 2100 was the last version. I bought it 1 week after the opening of the Apple store on -line, with Jobs saying "oh, thats so cool, I have to buy two". Then he killed it 2 months later.

Anyhow, it still gives me smile when I dust it off, but its dead now. It was ideal as a laptop replacement, EXTREMELY lightweight, great add-on keyborard.

I really should give it away so some fanatic who would give it a loving home...

Why will Apple never produce a handheld: you said it above, "It was ideal as a laptop replacement..." Too much profit in selling iBooks.

And with the strength of the iPod as a platform, there is no way they'd release anything that could erode those sales either.

[techfury90]

For those asking about 3G W-CDMA networks (I don't consider the cdma2000 networks 3G, they're really 2.5G, as they only have 50K data transfer, W-CDMA has 384kbps), it currently is available in Japan under the names NTT DoCoMo FOMA, and vodafone Global Standard. It is also available in Europe as well. AT&T will introduce 3G next year here in the US.

[iPC]

Originally posted by chazmox
Yes, add a 20-40Gig hardrive, OS X lite, and maybe 3G and/or WiFi ( I saw the mention of something wireless but not the spec it supported ) and I think you have something there!
http://www.tapwave.com/product/overview.asp

Bluetooth (small chipsize and low power usage).

I agree with previous poster that stated OS X lite is a bad idea... it would require so much to be stripped out of it (Quartz Extreme for one).

1-2GB microdrive (Sony....) with a Newton type OS would be fine if we are talking a PDA-centric device. 20-40GB if we are talking iPod-centric.

3G would be good... FW of course. I think I heard a rumor elsewhere of a combo BT/802.11x chip coming soon...? Not sure though...

So....

*** The new iPod ***

40/60/80 GB
BT
FW800
color touch screen (~4 inches)
Newton OS of some sort (stylus or finger operated)

ability to play mp3, AAC, ogg, aiff, and wav audio files. ability to play mov, mpg, flash and other video files. display jpg, bmp, tiff, etc. iLife apps of some sort, QT-lite, AppleWorks-lite, iCal, iSync, etc etc


have to go back to work......

[wildman]

I realize it is a longshot for the Apple PDA...but I would buy one in a snap. I have never owned a Palm Pilot, etc, not because I don't want one or need one, but because it is not Apple™. Apple could introduce one into the market and it would be a success for years to come even without updates or revisions.

Similarily, the original 5GB iPod is better than everything else out there.

My thought is that iPod sales would go down if a PDA was introduced and I wonder if it would just take the place of the iPod all together?

Think 3 years from now...

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict

Damn Jobs for killing my baby :( Damn him and his arrogant attitude. One of three things will need to happen before the Newton returns.
1. Jobs dies.
2. Jobs retires.
3. A massive coup by all the Newton fans still out there.

I vote for number 3, who's with me?

An Apple PDA.....that would be neat, and Apple could do it! I'd buy one.

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by iPC

*** The new iPod ***

40/60/80 GB
BT
FW800
color touch screen (~4 inches)
Newton OS of some sort (stylus or finger operated)

ability to play mp3, AAC, ogg, aiff, and wav audio files. ability to play mov, mpg, flash and other video files. display jpg, bmp, tiff, etc. iLife apps of some sort, QT-lite, AppleWorks-lite, iCal, iSync, etc etc


have to go back to work......

This is impossible.

This would require miniture hard drive prices to drop in price *dramatically* which isn't going to happen that soon.

Remember, not every one makes enough to buy a $799.00 80 GB iPod.

Plus, video? I don't think Apple is going in that direction ever. The iPod is for audiophiles. What next, the iVid for videophiles?

:) :rolleyes:

[yamabushi]

I think a new Apple PDA would be nice to see, but probably not worth the investment to produce and market unless it appears to have new selling points unavailable on Palm devices. I think better choices would be an Apple phone and tablet.

The phone could include PDA functions that are also available on other recent phones. iSync would of course be incorporated. A still image camera would be a weak addition, but a video camera that can also take still images would be amazing when combined with 3G. If this phone were also made compatible with iChatAV they should sell very well and boost Mac sales.

The technology already exists. I saw video cellular phones available for sale in Japan about four years ago. The phones had a bw lcd screen and a tiny camera in the face of the phone. You held it in front of your face to talk via video. You could also of course use it as a normal phone on the side of your face when using audio only. The 3G based connection would also be nice for a high speed internet connection when attached to a Powerbook or in a minibrowser on the phone.

I believe that Apple should let an experienced telephony company such as Sony or Nokia make many of the components in order to leverage their experience in this field. Then both Apple and the other company would sell their own models. This would allow Apple to help set the standard for the next generation of communications devices with only modest investment and huge profit potential.

[wr0x2]

An Apple PDA would be really nice, and would be a great replacement for my MP 120 ;). If I had the money for one then I would almost definatly buy it. I'm not going to get my hopes up because people have had their hopes up since 1997, but hey the 2004 superbowl is 20 years from 84 and would be good for an awesome commercial and and an awesome product relaunch (or not.)

[kylos]

Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Ya a really crappy keyboad IMHO. I spend 5 minutes looking for each letter when I have to go to our graphics department for tech support. I ended up putting VNC on their system so I can do it remotely.

That's because you're used to qwerty. Dvorak is a much better layout once you actually start using it. (If you can get past the extreme torture of changing your keyboard layout. It definately gets worse before it gets better.)

[tex210]

The superbowl would be an excellent roll out for our Apple iPad. Gsm or cdma, bluetooth headset and synch. No compromises on the Os. It's the latest Panther build, able to run very well on a fast G3+altivec thank you. This will bring even more os X developers in. The wifi card would be optional, as the standard is changing in the Pda market. It's a new security protocol that is not currently being sold by the manufactures as I understand it. I think t-mobile is changing their hotspots to this as well. I don't see this being about handwriting recognition, although it will be in there. I would really prefer a thumboard + pad. Using a full size bluetooth mouse and keyboard will be possible. Please include a foveon lens camera, able to capture vid and still. Let it work with ichat. If you can develope pixies, you can compress my talking head over gsm. There's more, but what's the point.... It's just killing me slowly.

[electric]

Here are Newton screen protectors:


Thanks wHo_tHe I can now look forward to a virgin screen saver.

[Phil Of Mac]

A few things:

1. Steve tried to buy out Palm after taking Apple back, for reasons still unknown.
2. The Newton was Sculley's big idea. Steve hates Sculley.


Originally posted by SiliconAddict
Ya a really crappy keyboad IMHO. I spend 5 minutes looking for each letter when I have to go to our graphics department for tech support. I ended up putting VNC on their system so I can do it remotely.

Anything you're not used to sucks automatically?

[swexplorer]

Just bought a second hand MP 2100, can't afford a new Apple PDA!!!
just joking, I will be first in queue to buy a new iPDA especially if they put together iPod, FM Radio, Media/QT Player (no phone please) and a nice MacOS X.3 GUI...

Giorgio

[scat999999]

The PDA market is stagnant. Handspring couldn't even make it with their outstanding Treo product. Apple would be foolish to spend millions to enter the fray. Sure Palm OS isn't perfect, but it works. And works well.
Now bringing back the Newton as a tablet PC. there's a market just looking for the right product to make it take off. I had a doctors appt. a couple of weeks ago and the Doc and all the nurses were running around with tablet PCs. Apple could own this market.

[sawaguchishinji]

http://store.yahoo.com/smartdiskstore/flashtrax.html

[bensisko]

When Apple was in talks to buy Palm, the reason nothing happened is because Apple (read: Steve) wasn't the least bit interested in the Palm OS or the Palm handheld. Had Apple bought Palm, they would be but a memory, just like the Newton. What Apple wanted, and wanted exclusively, was the HotSync technology (iSync anyone???). How would one touch sync between a Powerbook and a desktop sound? Or a Mac and a phone? Hotsync was what Apple was after. (I imagine they would grab other technologies as well, such as the BeOS components and the Palm VII wireless radio technology).

Another PDA? Unlikely. There's just no room in Apple's line up. A PocketPC type device would compete with both the iPod and the iBook. Anything like a Zire would just disappoint Apple PDA fans, and probably would only sell to Apple people and not scratch the PC market. it would be more likly that a future version of iSync would be compatable with Pocket PC than Apple releasing it's own PDA (even a rebranded Palm).

No mobile Apple fans, I think we'll have to do with the current Apple branded iPod and laptops (perhaps an eBook[laptop for education and extreme low-end]?).

[yamabushi]

Are we ever going to see the return of the ultralight Mac laptop? I would like to see a modern replacement for the Powerbook 2400 that has even less weight and bulk than that model.

[bensisko]

The Powerbook 12" is 0.2lbs heavier than the 2400 and has a smaller footprint. I guess your wish has been granted. In relation, the Powerbook 12" is the modern 2400. A lighter laptop? Because of Apple's infatuation with metal, I doubt you'll see one with less weight, but it's comparable.

[Dreadnought]

For any thirdparty hardware supplier:
Develop a touchscreen that you can plug into the ports of a ipod. Develop the software that you can edit the existing Apple programs on it (addressbook, Ical) and some other stuff (maybe Appleworks?!) And voila, your very own Apple PDA!

What do you guys think? I have been saying it ever since I got my 2g 20Gb Ipod and was hoping somebody developed it, but unfortunately.....

[mentalcelerity]

Well, this would be awesome. But if their is no substantial evidence. . . we shouldnt' even be posting this stuff.
I'm thinking if apple does come out with a pda soon, it should be now because i am about ready to get one. . . i'm sure if they do decide to come out with one it'll be in 2003. . . hec, everything else came out this year, it's been one big year from them . . . . if they do make the iPod into a pda, well i bought mine 1 month b4 the new ones came out so that reallly got to me. . .hope it comes out soon

[sambouka]

A researcher at Sprint told me that Spring is working with Apple to see how they can combine the iPod with their phone system. Apparently, a lot of R&D is being done from both sides.

[bensisko]

That would be the dumbest thing they could do. The iPod's batteries suffer enough without adding yet another power-hungary device onto it. If Apple wants to come out with a Phone, fine. But I hope Steve sticks with his message about no convergence devices.

[brainless]

Originally posted by bensisko
The Powerbook 12" is 0.2lbs heavier than the 2400 and has a smaller footprint. I guess your wish has been granted. In relation, the Powerbook 12" is the modern 2400. A lighter laptop? Because of Apple's infatuation with metal, I doubt you'll see one with less weight, but it's comparable.

I think 12'' PB is no longer the leader in the small notebook arena. Check the latest Sony Vaio models : smaller, way lighter with more features (I wouldn't judge the performance). 12'' PB is fine, but Apple can do much better than that. I really want to see a PB without the internal drive and weight around 2 pounds, but this won't be possible with Steve at helm so the only chance to see ultralight from Apple is via iPod route.

[brainless]

Originally posted by clonenode
Why will Apple never produce a handheld: you said it above, "It was ideal as a laptop replacement..." Too much profit in selling iBooks.

And with the strength of the iPod as a platform, there is no way they'd release anything that could erode those sales either.

This is bad argument. They have profit selling iBooks and iPod which would be to some extend erode with introduction of iNewton, but now they have zero profit at PDA arena, where mosto of the money go to Palm and PocketPC makers and Apple see no money from it. I believe money from iNewton + less money form iBook and iPod will be still more than money from iBook and iPod alone, even if they have to pay for R&D of iNewton

[brainless]

Originally posted by bensisko
Well, that's not true. There are plenty of people out there who will prefer to stick to a dedicated music device. I think Steve was right on when he said convergence devices are not the way to go. More than likely, the only thing that would really take down the iPod is a iPaq-sized device running Windows XP and 30 hour battery that comes in at under $500, and then only on the Windows side.

That's kinda like saying that the Segway is going to kill car sales.

Well if you may choose from music device and music device of the same quality which is cheaper and have extra phone in it why to choose the first one. I think the optical drive in Sony device might be great advantage, but it has to be seen how it is with battery life etc.

If they can put that tiny optical drive into current P900 phone to serve as cheap mass storage (for instance for music playback among other things), and the price stays around $500, there will be no reason to buy iPod, imho.

[Squire]

Originally posted by brainless
If they can put that tiny optical drive into current P900 phone to serve as cheap mass storage (for instance for music playback among other things), and the price stays around $500, there will be no reason to buy iPod, imho.

Optical drive? Do you mean hard drive? I always thought optical drives were CD/DVD drives.

Squire

[bensisko]

Originally posted by brainless
I think 12'' PB is no longer the leader in the small notebook arena. Check the latest Sony Vaio models : smaller, way lighter with more features (I wouldn't judge the performance).

Apple was NEVER the leader with the 12" powerbook. Sony has always had smaller notebooks that were "full-featured."

As for profit taking from a potential device: the iNewton (or whatever) would have to be something truly special for a good majority of people to put down their Palms and Pocket PCs. I think that most people have the handheld OS they like, and it would be really hard to break that. Could Apple do it? Absolutely. I have no doubt they could come up with a device (or devices) that would make PPC and Palm users dump their PDAs in the junk drawer. Is it worth it for Apple to do it? Probably not. It would take an enormous amount of money to make a cheap device that would please enough people to make money at to.

If we see a new device (a BIG if), it won't be a convergence device, it will be simple, yet amazing, but won't be a swiss army knife.

[brainless]

Originally posted by Squire
Optical drive? Do you mean hard drive? I always thought optical drives were CD/DVD drives.

Squire

No when I say optical drive I don't mean hard drive, I mean optical drive. Sony is working on small (1'' or similar) optical removable revritable drive with more than 1 GB of capacity - it was in same article as the info about their new device - sorry I don't have the link right now. Looked like ioMega Click, but it was optical rather than magnetic.

[brainless]

Originally posted by bensisko
Apple was NEVER the leader with the 12" powerbook. Sony has always had smaller notebooks that were "full-featured."

As for profit taking from a potential device: the iNewton (or whatever) would have to be something truly special for a good majority of people to put down their Palms and Pocket PCs. I think that most people have the handheld OS they like, and it would be really hard to break that. Could Apple do it? Absolutely. I have no doubt they could come up with a device (or devices) that would make PPC and Palm users dump their PDAs in the junk drawer. Is it worth it for Apple to do it? Probably not. It would take an enormous amount of money to make a cheap device that would please enough people to make money at to.

If we see a new device (a BIG if), it won't be a convergence device, it will be simple, yet amazing, but won't be a swiss army knife.

Well, Steve Jobs said that when he introduced 12'' PowerBook, lightest full featured notebook.
I don't think it will be that difficult for Apple to create better device than either Palm or PocketPC - they already had a superior system in Newton ! I still don't get why they killed the whole thing. If I remember that right, Jobs said the reason for it was current technology (at the time of the Newton kill) can't produce devices that are powerfull enough to provide the services Newton was planned for. So they left the market empty and Palm and PocketPC filled the void with way inferior products. Just reimplementing Newton to current hw would be huge.
While it is nothing more than a rumor now, I am pretty sure Apple will have to enter the arena sooner or later. Thanks to anvances in hw the PDA will become more and more capable to do the chores now typically done on the notebook and substantially reduce the sales of the notebooks. I think once a major HW manufacturer such as IBM, Toshiba or Sony comes with mature product such as OQO (www.oqo.com) or Tiqit (www.tiqit.com), Apple will have to react, even if Jobs will still scream "no apple branded PDA in my life".

[bensisko]

Originally posted by brainless
Well, Steve Jobs said that when he introduced 12'' PowerBook, lightest full featured notebook.... I still don't get why they killed the whole thing. If I remember that right, Jobs said the reason for it was current technology ..


Yeah, i'd like to see Steve's reasons for 12" being the smallest.

Anywho, Apple killed the Newton off because they couldn't maintain three platforms (Mac, Server[Rapsody I think], and Newton). Plus, Apple only recouped about 1/4 the cash they put into the Newton. True they probably killed it before it's time, and would have done better with a Pilot sized Newton, however, I just don't think Apple would have kept the Newton up. Anytime there was a buget crunch, Newton would have always been on the chopping block. Personally, I would have liked to see a version of the 2100 with the same size screen, but the device itself isn't much bigger and about a half an inch thin.

[Squire]

Originally posted by bensisko
Yeah, i'd like to see Steve's reasons for 12" being the smallest.


The way I understood it, all the smaller notebooks had a removeable optical drive or battery pack. This, in Steve's mind, didn't count as full-featured.

I don't know...makes sense to me. ;)

Which notebooks on the market are smaller but come with everything (optical drives, battery, etc.) in one case?

Squire

[bensisko]

Originally posted by Squire
The way I understood it, all the smaller notebooks had a removeable optical drive or battery pack. This, in Steve's mind, didn't count as full-featured.

I don't know...makes sense to me. ;)

Which notebooks on the market are smaller but come with everything (optical drives, battery, etc.) in one case?

Squire

Sony has a Vaio that is super thin, and includes an optical drive and battery, but external floppy. I don't know, I think Apple kinda fudged on this one.

[brainless]

Originally posted by bensisko
Sony has a Vaio that is super thin, and includes an optical drive and battery, but external floppy. I don't know, I think Apple kinda fudged on this one.
Agree. There are others, not only Sony, such as Fujitsu P2000 with DVD/CD-RW combo and widescreen for ~3 lb. weight
and a long list of other producers has similar offer. Apple definitely have room for improvement there.

[brainless]

Originally posted by bensisko

Anywho, Apple killed the Newton off because they couldn't maintain three platforms (Mac, Server[Rapsody I think], and Newton). Plus, Apple only recouped about 1/4 the cash they put into the Newton. True they probably killed it before it's time, and would have done better with a Pilot sized Newton, however, I just don't think Apple would have kept the Newton up. Anytime there was a buget crunch, Newton would have always been on the chopping block. Personally, I would have liked to see a version of the 2100 with the same size screen, but the device itself isn't much bigger and about a half an inch thin.

I agree they had finacial (and maybe other) reasons to kill the Newton at that time, but the way Jobs presented the reasons was straightforward dumb - technology is not there, market is not ready....
In short time Palm took the vacant market by storm.
I consider Jobs whines about PDA market irrelevant. There is a room for improvements and Apple already has the superior technology in hand - they don't have to invent the Newton again ! Just build it again using the lastest PDA HW and it will be a market hit.