iPod Battery Replacement Details from Apple

[MacRumors]

Apple's iPod Support site (http://depot.info.apple.com/ipod/) references the upcoming iPod Battery Replacement program in a list of troubleshooting steps for the iPod.

If your iPod fails to hold a charge and it's more than a year old, you may need a new battery. Click Continue to order iPod battery service for $99 USD. This program is not available in Europe at this time.

The page warns that "iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service."

According to information available to MacRumors, engraved iPods may simply have a longer turnaround.

The program appears to be now available.

[fussball]

that seems awfully expensive for a year old battery.. :-(

[jayb2000]

I have more on my iPod than on my computer due to disk space issues.
That's a lousy program.

Plus 99 bucs seems expenseive! :(

[Veldek]

What's with the engraved iPods? Will I also get another (engraved) one or will they send mine back?

[MoparShaha]

I like how you can now replace the battery. Believe it or not, this has been one of the main reasons I haven't gotten an iPod. I'm not going to drop $500 and have my purchase be useless in a year or two because of a dead battery.

I don't like how they won't send your own iPod back to you. In fact, I find it unnacceptable. I guess it would be nice if they sent you one with less scratches, ect., but I develop a personal bond with my stuff. I don't like the idea of being given something different.

[alia]

Um, if I spent a year and a half keeping my ipod pristine and wanted the battery replaced, I'd be really annoyed to receive some scratched up refurb. I don't know how I feel about this exchange program.

Alia

[xtekdiver]

Face it folks, two years from now the next generation iPod will be even more versatile, larger capacity, and a better design (my guess: wireless). I bought my iPod with the understanding that this device will undoubtedly be replaced in a couple years -- at the most. I just know when I see that next killer device from Apple this one is going on Ebay and I'll be dropping a few more bills for the next best thing. That's just the way it is. Resistance is futile.

[caveman_uk]

Well there's a bloody surprise. 'Not available in Europe at this time'. Do our batteries never fail then? So how long will we have to wait for this service? It joins a lengthening list of US only services...:mad:

[Stella]

"This program is not available in Europe at this time."

What the f?ck is wrong with Apple, time and time again ignoring International markets?

Hello Apple around 50% of your revenue comes from outside the US borders. If you want it to stay that way, SUPPORT OTHER MARKETS.

Fu?king retards.

[acj]

Lithium Ion and Lithium polymer cells are quite cheap. Available to the consumer for $5 at a place like all electronics (http://www.allelectronics.com) .

Shame Apple charges so much (while the iPod does not charge so much... Ha!)

[pgwalsh]

Originally posted by acj
Lithium Ion and Lithium polymer cells are quite cheap. Available to the consumer for $5 at a place like all electronics (http://www.allelectronics.com) .

Shame Apple charges so much (while the iPod does not charge so much... Ha!) Now it's only a matter of pointing to which battery and a How To...

[deepkid]

Originally posted by Macrumors
You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service."

This goes on with some of the smaller auto insurance company-owned fix-it shops, but coming from Apple, it's sounds a bit bewildering.

Maybe what they meant is limited only to the component(s) being replaced in your own iPod. If not, what would become of your registration/serial number of the pod you bought/sent, if they did replace the entire pod to alleviate a hard drive problem?

Hopefully any pod replacement would be an upgrade, and nothing less, for the customer. It would be ridiculous for them to do something like send you back a refurbished 2nd generation "sardine can" pod when you sent in one of the 3rd gen 'big tic tac' models.

[Anonymous Freak]

Originally posted by deepkid
Hopefully any pod replacement would be an upgrade, and nothing less, for the customer. It would be ridiculous for them to do something like send you back a refurbished 2nd generation "sardine can" pod when you sent in one of the 3rd gen 'big tic tac' models.

In all likelihood, they'd send you a refurbished model of whatever you sent in. If you happen to send in one of the newest models, you MAY get a new one back. But most likely a refurb. And no, if you send in a 2G 20GB one, they are *NOT* going to send you a new 20GB current one as replacement. They'll dig into their 2G 20GB models.

[aldo]

Yea, I'm pissed about Apple only offering it to US markets. They are _completely_ ignoring the international markets.

Retail stores: US only, with one Japan store. While I can see this changing it's taking them way too long for a rollout of Europe stores.

iTMS: US only. Europe is scheduled sometime next year, but what sort of pricing makret will we have to pay.

Pricing in general: Ignoring VAT (sales tax), Apple charges a hell of a lot more for European consumers than US ones. It's shipped from Taiwan anyway, so why should it be cheaper in the US?

While I love Apple, the amount it is closing itself down to US markets is astonishing. I hope this will change, but I can't see it being a lot better than this current situation:rolleyes: .

[ZildjianKX]

Man, this is a rip.

$99 is 20 - 33% the cost of a new iPod system, and you don't even get yours back. What if you get a crappy refurb back that dies like 90 days later? They probably give you a super small warranty on the iPod they send ya... I'd rather go to a site to do it.

Even better yet, the iPod should be like the GBA SP, you can do it yourself.

[sethypoo]

This seems a little awkward of Apple:
1. No international support
2. $99, pretty stiff
3. The chance of getting a 2G for your 3G
4. Loss of all non-music data on the iPod

Funny, but where is the good idea in this new system? It seems most unlike Apple.

So if you send in a under warranty iPod, do you still have to pay the $99?

[nagromme]

They mention other servicing besides just the battery swap. Does this mean if you send an iPod in for WARRANTY service that you may get a used/refurb model? Or is this just true for paid service you have done AFTER warranty.

If the latter... OK, it's weird but I guess I have my choice what to do. But if I had to send my NEW iPod (within a year) in for warranty service, I'd expect my same unit back or a new one swapped. NOT someone else's reject! Hopefully that's not the case.

(For engraved, I bet they slap your existing back on whatever iPod they were sending you.)

[wHo_tHe]

$99 may be a lot to replace a spent battery, but look at it another way... It could be seen as an equipment replacement-type of warranty. I know a number of iPods that are over a year old that are pretty beat up, and $99 to replace them with a newly refurbed model might be better than replacing the whole thing at $299.

I don't know about these exact models, but my wife had her iPod replaced by a refurb by Apple (for free) and the replacement was in excellent, unblemished condition and has worked without issue.

[Hmm]

Here's an iPod battery (http://www.ipodbattery.com/) for $49. Also comes with installation instructions.

[MM2270]

I was originally kinda psyched about hearing of this program, but I have to agree with others here, that getting a different iPod than the one you sent in is rather bogus. Like someone else said here, I have a bond of sorts with my iPod, and don't like the idea of getting someone elses reject one bit! What are they thinking!? What if the one you get is somehow prone to locking up as some of them do? I'd be royally pissed if my perfectly good iPod, sans good working battery, was replaced by one that crapped out on me frequently! Nah-ah, Apple, you can keep this program.

I think as someone else said already, Apple is just pricing this on the high end and making it unattractive to get it replaced, so they encourage you to buy a new 'Pod. :(

[rotorblade]

Don't know about the new iPod, but replacing the battery in the old iPod is a breeze. Takes all of 10 minutes. No way I'd pay $99. Just buy a battery for $49 - $59 and replace it yourself.

[FlamDrag]

It's a known fact that Europeans get much longer battery life out of their Apple devices than Americans do. This is due to being closer to the North Pole and something else. Not to mention the fact that all Europeans have more money to spend so they deserve to pay more. :rolleyes:

I'm curious what happens to those who have first gen iPods...say a 5GB... Surely they don't have a back-stock of those around?

[ersrhead]

Here's the correct URL for iPod replacement batteries: http://www.ipodbattery.com/.

$49 and includes install instructions: http://www.ipodbattery.com/ipodinstall.htm.

[vmagdic]

Originally posted by Veldek
What's with the engraved iPods? Will I also get another (engraved) one or will they send mine back?

All they have to do is hold onto your engraved back-plate, and glue that onto some other (refurburished unit).

[Ja Di ksw]

Weak. My iPod is MY iPod. Original model, with a few little scratches and dings that make it feel like mine, give it personality. On top of that, $99 for a battery?! What a ripoff. Really disappointed with Apple on this. They should make it so you can pop in and out new batteries yourself, and have them cheaper.

[Glossybear]

Wow. and I thought this was GOOD news....

I had some issues with my 2G iPod when it was still under applecare and I was stoked when they sent me back a refurb unit. It was in pristine shape; no scratches or dings, and works flawlessly.

There is NO way they are going to send you a 2G unit if you send them a 3G unit. Non of the 3G units are even CLOSE to a year old anyway... There will be a video iPod by then! ;)

[CompUSAMacNerd]

Originally posted by alia
Um, if I spent a year and a half keeping my ipod pristine and wanted the battery replaced, I'd be really annoyed to receive some scratched up refurb. I don't know how I feel about this exchange program.

Alia


Hey Ali! Its me, Jay from GarouMUSH. Hahah. I found yoooouuuu.

Hey, I agree tho'. I'd never send in my iPod for a hundred bucks. May as well be called a 'replacement plan', like we do at compusa. Except ours cost 40 bucks for a new iPod instead of a hundred. :) And its not a refurb.

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by MoparShaha


I don't like how they won't send your own iPod back to you. In fact, I find it unnacceptable. I guess it would be nice if they sent you one with less scratches, ect., but I develop a personal bond with my stuff. I don't like the idea of being given something different.

AGreed. My guess is they do it to speed up the process. You'll get back the same thing (2G, 3G, etc.) you sent in. But I'd still rather get mine back.

Of course, if my ipod were running out of steam (e.g, harddrive failing), and a battery, I'd happily send it in and get a refurb, figuring it's working better. (but I wouldn't want to be the next guy getting the crappy one I sent in)

[Nicky G]

Strikes me that iPod owners all have a new choice they did not have yesterday. I know it will certainly appeal to a lot of folks.

To the folks it doesn't appeal to, nobody is forcing you to use their service. Get over it already.

And the the whining Euros, please shut up once and for all already. I used to think only us Americans were ignorant, but clearly this is not the case.

Apple is a US corporation. As such, many of its initiatives are launched in the USA, and then move outward. This is how EVERY GLOBAL COMPANY tends to operate. Look at how much electronics released in Japan never goes outside of Japan.

GEEZ! Get over it already! I thought you guys actually HAD functioning educational systems? Use your minds. Try to think logically. Thank you.

BTW I love Europeans, especially European women. So please don't take this as a blanket attack. I am as much a critic of the USA as anyone can be, but all of this incessant whining for no logical reason is silly -- pick your battles, people.

[DeusOmnis]

You pay 100 bucks and you dont even get your own ipod back? What crap is that. The service should be 30 bucks and you should still get your original ipod back.

[Giaguara]

Originally posted by FlamDrag
It's a known fact that Europeans get much longer battery life out of their Apple devices than Americans do. This is due to being closer to the North Pole and something else. Not to mention the fact that all Europeans have more money to spend so they deserve to pay more. :rolleyes:

europeans do have a 24 months warranty, true.

macs cost there more, true.

all europeans have more money? want to switch? as a recent graduate (female, under 5 y professional expreince) in osuther italy i can get a monthly salary of about 300 euros (330 dollars), it would be 500 euros if i was male. want to change? imagine ripping off money from that 300 to pay rent and to eat. and tehn buy whteveryou need... :eek:

[montecristo]

On the positive side of the discussion...

Think of it this way: $99 bucks to upgrade from a 5GB 1G iPod to a 10GB 3G iPod. Upgrade from one that doesn't hold a battery to one that does, with double the space.

As for the engraving, I imagine that it takes longer so they can replicate the engraved message/name.

Given that the iPod design has an embedded battery that can't be removed (which, IMHO, makes for a much sturdier model), I think this program is the best Apple can do -- I doubt they are making profit off of this (although it IS one way to get people to upgrade to 3g iPod that probably has more functionality coming down the pipeline).

As for not having enough space on your harddrive to hold all your iPod info? Probably time to get a new mac or external drive. Maybe Apple should offer an "upgrade-your-harddrive-for-$99" bucks offer. "If your computer is more than a year old and it can hold your info...trade it in...":)

[Stella]

You don't understand, this isn't a one off for Apple ignoring international markets. They do it all the time.

This is another example of Apple ignoring the rest of the world, to add to an already long list.

The more Apple ignore markets outside the US, the more people will get pissed off.

Sorry, but its not a case of "you Europeans should stop whinning". It really isn't.

Several example:
iPhoto pubishing still isn't available outside of the US borders - more than 2 years after it was introduced.

Why isn't this available? Kodak is an international company with offices all around the world. Why can't apple negiogiate (sorry, spelling) to get iPhoto printing available to everyone.

Oh, and then there is the .Mac special offers - some available to only US customers. The last example was the firewire discounts.


Originally posted by Nicky G
Strikes me that iPod owners all have a new choice they did not have yesterday. I know it will certainly appeal to a lot of folks.

To the folks it doesn't appeal to, nobody is forcing you to use their service. Get over it already.

And the the whining Euros, please shut up once and for all already. I used to think only us Americans were ignorant, but clearly this is not the case.

Apple is a US corporation. As such, many of its initiatives are launched in the USA, and then move outward. This is how EVERY GLOBAL COMPANY tends to operate. Look at how much electronics released in Japan never goes outside of Japan.

GEEZ! Get over it already! I thought you guys actually HAD functioning educational systems? Use your minds. Try to think logically. Thank you.

BTW I love Europeans, especially European women. So please don't take this as a blanket attack. I am as much a critic of the USA as anyone can be, but all of this incessant whining for no logical reason is silly -- pick your battles, people.

[whatever]

I have a first generation iPod (5 GB) that I paid almost $500.00 for when it first came out. I use it every day, between 4 and 9 hours without charging. Sure sometimes the battery quits at 7 hours other days it goes for closer to 11 hours on a single charge. It's been dropped, stepped on and x-rayed (well over a hundred times) and it still works.

I really wish it would die so that I can get a new 40GB iPod, but it just won't die.

I personally don't want color or video on an iPod, my Palm V would last for four weeks without going into the cradle, but my Palm Tungsten can't make it through a weekend with out charging.

This is solid product, yet people here constantly find a need to moan.

The average iPod user will never need to replace their battery, they will be like me and just upgrade to the latest greatest when they feel the time is right.

Whatever

[jelloshotsrule]

Originally posted by Giaguara
europeans do have a 24 months warranty, true.

macs cost there more, true.

all europeans have more money? want to switch? as a recent graduate (female, under 5 y professional expreince) in osuther italy i can get a monthly salary of about 300 euros (330 dollars), it would be 500 euros if i was male. want to change? imagine ripping off money from that 300 to pay rent and to eat. and tehn buy whteveryou need... :eek:

hmm, something tells me flamdrag might have been... well.. a little sarcastic.

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by montecristo
I think this program is the best Apple can do -- I doubt they are making profit off of this

Are you kidding? Of course they are. You can buy the battery for $50 at retail. Apple probably pays half that or less in bulk. But even at $50, they get $50 more to cover labor and shipping (if that's even included). No way it takes trained personnel more than 10 minutes to replace the battery. That's as much as many top lawyers make--$300/hour.

Apple could offer this for $49 and turn a small profit. $69 and a reasonable profit. At $99 it smells really expensive.

And, yeah, it's better to have a choice than no choice. But that doesn't mean we can't complain about the "choice" if it sucks.

[FlamDrag]

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
hmm, something tells me flamdrag might have been... well.. a little sarcastic.

Yes, I was being quite sarcastic as evidenced by the North pole comment and the Rolls Eyes face. It's the only time I've neglected the </sarcasm> tag at the end of such a post. Sorry 'bout that.

[johnnowak]

Hopefully apple will clarify this and state that you'll get yours back unless it needs other repair besides for the battery... which I suspect is what they indeed meant. I think you're all jumping on this a bit prematurely here.

[johnnowak]

Then again, maybe Apple really ****ed up.

This is why I only buy computers from Apple and nothing else.

[TorbX]

As a law student in Norway, I love to brag about our legal system. Check this:

If my iPod's battery goes dead within the five first years after purchase, I can just go back to the store and say "give me a new one".

The battery on the 3rd gen is not supposed to be changed. I mean, the iPod is not built to be opened. It SHOULD last 5 years, without being opened for an battery-change. Because of this, I can just say "give me a new one" at the store.

If it happens AGAIN (third time) within 5 new years, I can say "give me my money back. I don't like the product you sold me".

It just rocks... "Everyone" in Norway has new cell-phones all the time. These laws are actually hated by Nokia and Ericsson and other flaw-full phones. It's a really big issue these days. "Consumer before company profit". Probably the work of som left-wing semi communist-partys...

:-P

[TorbX]

new iPod as a whole, that is...

[mrsebastian]

what the f#%k, that's horrible! come on apple, you expect people to spend their hard earned dollars to get an ipod, then you want them to pay to fix something that shouldn't have to be replaced within a year or two as far as i'm concerned. then you tell them they might not even get their original ipod back!? like i said, what the f#%k!

[crap freakboy]

Originally posted by Stella
"This program is not available in Europe at this time."

What the f?ck is wrong with Apple, time and time again ignoring International markets?

Hello Apple around 50% of your revenue comes from outside the US borders. If you want it to stay that way, SUPPORT OTHER MARKETS.

Fu?king retards.

rofl stella quote

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by TorbX




It just rocks... "Everyone" in Norway has new cell-phones all the time. These laws are actually hated by Nokia and Ericsson and other flaw-full phones. It's a really big issue these days. "Consumer before company profit". Probably the work of som left-wing semi communist-partys...

:-P

Amazing they bother to sell their products there. Sure, it sounds good, but if companies don't bother, or raise prices a lot, it may not ultimately benefit folks.

[wPod]

Originally posted by whatever
I have a first generation iPod (5 GB) that I paid almost $500.00 for when it first came out. I use it every day, between 4 and 9 hours without charging. Sure sometimes the battery quits at 7 hours other days it goes for closer to 11 hours on a single charge. It's been dropped, stepped on and x-rayed (well over a hundred times) and it still works.

I really wish it would die so that I can get a new 40GB iPod, but it just won't die.



i second that motion! would they upgrade me to a 3G if i send in my 1G??!?!? id pay $99 for that (even though my battery works fine. . . 10h ave . . . which i think is longer than the 3G last now. . . . hmmm)

[TorbX]

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Amazing they bother to sell their products there. Sure, it sounds good, but if companies don't bother, or raise prices a lot, it may not ultimately benefit folks.

No, you're wrong. Companies DO bother, they are forced to develop better products.

Besides, Norway is the richest country per citizen in the world. We can afford it ;-D

[Stella]

I get kind of emotional when Apple time and time again screws and 'ignores' the non US Customers...

:D

Originally posted by mrsebastian

rofl stella quote

[Ja Di ksw]

Question: Is it actually certain that if you send in your 1G model (ah, the good ol' classic iPod) and pay the $99, they will send you the cheapest 3G they have? We're talking dock here, right? My 1G works fine, and I use it every day, during driving, jogging, rollerblading, walking to/from class, during class. . . . . . and I think the 1G will probably be a collectors item sometime in the future, but I would love having the recording option for lectures.

edit: I'm wondering because it seems like people were scared of Apple giving them an earlier generation, sending in a 3G and getting a 2G, and then others were saying that no, if anything, they would only upgrade you. After that, it seems the whole "ooo, I can get an upgrade" thing (which I'm a part of) took off

[bignumbers]

I'm mixed on this... $99 really isn't that bad for what they're doing - processing and receiving your iPod, cracking open an iPod, replacing the battery, sealing it up, formatting/testing, packaging and returning. If the battery costs $50 at ipodbattery.com, the extra $50 is for the labor and return shipping, along with (I assume - I haven't checked) some sort of additional warranty, probably 90 days. Most hardware service centers won't breath on a peripheral for twice that.

I think if they were to track each user's iPod the cost would be higher. I also think they risk scratching some percentage of iPods while cracking them open, and just saying you might not get yours back is a way of covering their butts for those cases.

For the concern of getting someone else's scratched-and-beaten iPod, I'd be surprised if they did that. They'd have too many peeved customers. I think they'll be replacing many cases while doing this.

My bigger problem is with the design of the iPod, not (easily) allowing a user-replacable battery. If there was a reasonable way to pop it open, none of this would be at issue.

[crap freakboy]

Originally posted by Stella
I get kind of emotional when Apple time and time again screws and 'ignores' the non US Customers...

quote:
Originally posted by mrsebastian

rofl stella quote

:D




hee...how'd you manage to quote my quote to mrsebastian?:)

[Stella]

LOL

Don't know?!!!?

Originally posted by crap freakboy
hee...how'd you manage to quote my quote to mrsebastian?:)

[CTYankee]

Originally posted by caveman_uk
Well there's a bloody surprise. 'Not available in Europe at this time'. Do our batteries never fail then? So how long will we have to wait for this service? It joins a lengthening list of US only services...:mad:

Then buy products from European manufacturers who will cater to Europe. I'm sure you will get the service you want with your, um...er...car? Chocolate?

[phillymjs]

I haven't had my (3G 30GB) iPod long, but I've taken pains to keep it pristine. I don't want to get someone else's that wasn't well taken care of-- what the f is that about? You'd think Apple would at least offer you the option of shipping you back the exact one you shipped them for like an extra $10 or something. People would complain, but many would pay it. I would.

If they can turn around Powerbook repairs in a few days and ship you back the same unit you shipped them, I don't see why they can't do it with the iPods. But since they won't, when my iPod's battery dies I'll take my chances replacing it myself.

~Philly

[alia]

Originally posted by Stella


Several example:
iPhoto pubishing still isn't available outside of the US borders - more than 2 years after it was introduced.

Why isn't this available? Kodak is an international company with offices all around the world. Why can't apple negiogiate (sorry, spelling) to get iPhoto printing available to everyone.


As a point of interest... Kodak owns ofoto, which is the company that does the prints iphoto offers, but until recently (September 22nd for the UK, in fact), ofoto didn't ship internationally. They do now, but I imagine Apple still hast to integrate the ordering technology into iphoto. I'd actually be surprised if it isn't in the next version.

[EDIT: Forgot to mention... ofoto was not started by Kodak. It was aquired and is its own company. It would be for this reason that, even though Kodak is international, ofoto isn't.

There are explanations for everything. Obviously, Apple would be more than glad to take your money just as they would take ours. You just have to know that there's more to the story than what you think. Everyone always assumes Apple just enjoys screwing people over. International busines is extremely complicated.]

Alia

[dmenahem]

What if all your music is just on the iPod but not on iTunes (ie when I ripped my cds I did not save them on the HD, take up too much space), by sending in my 30Gig and receiving a different unit back I have to re-rip all cds?

Just curious....

daniel

[Garry]

I can't believe that so many people have misread the post. Read it again ... slowly.

iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service.

So if you just send in your iPod for a simply battery replacement, you WILL get yours back. Come on people. Read the posts before complaining!

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by TorbX

It just rocks... "Everyone" in Norway has new cell-phones all the time. These laws are actually hated by Nokia and Ericsson and other flaw-full phones. It's a really big issue these days. "Consumer before company profit". Probably the work of som left-wing semi communist-partys...

:-P

Since most battery technology is not even CAPABLE of lasting five years, how is this law supposed to help?

And what happened a few years ago when the best battery tech was NiCd or NiMH? Those batteries barely last a year. Did companies just refuse to sell products in Norway? or is the law not enforced?

I'm all about consumer protection, but the argument that "companies should just develop better products" is simplistic to the point of being idiotic.

[Le Big Mac]

Originally posted by Garry


So if you just send in your iPod for a simply battery replacement, you WILL get yours back. Come on people. Read the posts before complaining!

it says "or" not "and." In other words, if you send it in for one kind of service or another it "will be replaced."

[Garry]

I suggest you read it again. It says battery service or other service requiring other parts!

The top and bottom is that, if you send in your iPod for a regular battery service, you will get YOUR iPod back.

[CTYankee]

Originally posted by Garry
I can't believe that so many people have misread the post. Read it again ... slowly.



So if you just send in your iPod for a simply battery replacement, you WILL get yours back. Come on people. Read the posts before complaining!

I'll make this simple following basic rules of grammar:

"iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service."

Can be read:
"iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service."

You will NOT get YOUR iPod back. You will get a 'functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPond'. OR OR OR OR...or is the key word there. It is an iclusive term, not one that differentiated between either article on either side of it. So battery OR other service will get you a DIFFERENT iPod.

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by Garry
I suggest you read it again. It says battery service or other service requiring other parts!

The top and bottom is that, if you send in your iPod for a regular battery service, you will get YOUR iPod back.

Are you kidding?
here, let me simplify it:

A: iPod sent in for battery service
B: iPod sent in for service requiring "other repairs"
C: iPod returned is not your iPod

IF A OR B THEN C.

therefore

IF A THEN C
AND
IF B THEN C

in Apple's own words: "You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service." note that they don't differentiate between types of service.

[sethypoo]

Think happy thoughts, please!:D

[TorbX]

Originally posted by andyduncan
Since most battery technology is not even CAPABLE of lasting five years, how is this law supposed to help?

And what happened a few years ago when the best battery tech was NiCd or NiMH? Those batteries barely last a year. Did companies just refuse to sell products in Norway? or is the law not enforced?

I'm all about consumer protection, but the argument that "companies should just develop better products" is simplistic to the point of being idiotic.

Well, I must add: This law is newly improved this year. Fresh stuff.

Forget the battery itself. Since the battery cannot be changed by the end-user (you and me), we have only the iPod as a whole to complain about. Therefore, I can go to my local shop and say:

"This thing is not working. You say it is the battery, I do not know, I don't care what the problem is. Just give me a new one. And no, I won't let you repair."

Why is this so stunning? OF COURSE we shall protect the end-user! Why shall Norwegians suffer, just because Apple can't make a decent iPod? It's a STUNNING expensive thing. Of COURSE the iPod itself, as a WHOLE product should last more than 5 years. It's not our problem what battery technology they use, as long as it cannot be switched by ME!

[LostPacket]

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
it says "or" not "and." In other words, if you send it in for one kind of service or another it "will be replaced."

I agree with LBM. It sounds to me that a battery replacement would be considered "battery service" and you would receive a different iPod. Either way, I think the wording was poorly chosen.

LP

[jxyama]

yeah, you won't get your iPod back. well said, andyduncan.

if there was a chance you get your own ipod back, apple would have written the service as:

"if the only thing your ipod needs is the battery replacement, you will get the same ipod back. if it requires other services, you will received a functionally equiv. new/refurb unit."

to avoid the confusion...

[Nicky G]

One wonders if the higher prices of Apple products in Europe are to buffer the warranty laws of Norway! Next time I see a European on this board whining about Apple's high prices, I will gladly remind them of this Norwegian law.

[FlamDrag]

It would be a major hassle for Apple to track individual iPods for return to their original owners. The way it is now, they say "Joe Schmoe sent in a 10GB 3G iPod, send him a different one and we'll fix his when we get around to it." FOR Apple, there is much less headache this way. If they tried to send you the same one you sent in then you could complain and say " this isn't MY iPod and their costs skyrocket...and so do yours.

And I'm not sure why everyone thinks that Apple will send you back a refurb iPod that is a banged up POS. The external "pretty" parts can't be the most expensive parts so it's possible that they replace the batteries AND the external components restoring it to pristine condition with refurb insides. Everyone who has posted about refurb iPods has said that they got beautiful products - not a scratched and dinged piece of junk.

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by TorbX
It's not our problem what battery technology they use, as long as it cannot be switched by ME!

You previously stated that everyone in Norway had a new phone all the time because of this law. Since those batteries are user-replaceable, and yet the phone itself STILL falls under this law, how then can a company avoid this liability?

What happens if the product i'm selling is, in fact, a battery? does it then have to last for five years? Or do I have to offer a replacement battery for my replacement battery?

Despite the fact that this law is new, current LiIon batteries won't last 5 full years, not under any type of normal use. What is the point of punishing companies for selling the best technology that currently exists?

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by Nicky G
One wonders if the higher prices of Apple products in Europe are to buffer the warranty laws of Norway! Next time I see a European on this board whining about Apple's high prices, I will gladly remind them of this Norwegian law.

Yeah, and don't forget the Apple stores. There was an earlier post complaining about those only being in the US. Maybe they avoid opening shops in Norway so that people will have reduced ability to:

go back to the store and say "give me a new one"

:-)

[andyduncan]

According to information available to MacRumors, engraved iPods may simply have a longer turnaround.

Hmm, define "Engraved". If it means getting MY iPod back, i'm liable to bust out a pointy object and put Madonna's signature on it myself.

(yes I am trying to up my rating through prolific posting)

[crazzyeddie]

So i found this battery replacement thing and found the rest of the iPod repair services... and since my iPod is broken i wanted to get a new one. Well get this, they wanted $255 to repair my iPod!!! And the replacement that i got would have been a used model. I can buy a 10GB refurbished iPod for LESS than it would cost to repair this 5GB!! Come on Apple, get your stuff together!

[puffmarvin]

with all this freakin whining apple should go back to its "out of warranty... out of luck" program.... apple does not NEED to do this... its a service (much like the powermac power supply program)...i myself would probably never do it... i would just want to buy a newer model...

[arn]

I don't think getting scuffed parts is going to be an issue. I bet Apple has a ton of plastic covers and backings laying around. :)

If anything you'll likely get an ipod that is cosmetically perfect. The parts may be refurbed however.

arn

[seamuskrat]

For those that are worrying about marks and scuffs, fear not.
That 99 Also includes a new front face and back. At least according to the mailign sent to our campus Mac store today. (Copy en route via email to ARN)
So, you get the same model back or a better one. So its a sweet deal for 1G 5 gigers. If you send in a 3G you will get a 3G back. With a new front and back, and if engraved, presumably youroriginal back.

It helps explain the 99 istead a more reasonable 69.00

[avus]

I am certainly shocked and surprised how quickly this thread (and the first thread) turned into a MacCentral Forum that epitomizes narrow-mindedness, ignorance, and stupidity.

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by seamuskrat
For those that are worrying about marks and scuffs, fear not.
That 99 Also includes a new front face and back.

ex-cel-ent

<- puts away pointy object

[TorbX]

Originally posted by andyduncan
You previously stated that everyone in Norway had a new phone all the time because of this law. Since those batteries are user-replaceable, and yet the phone itself STILL falls under this law, how then can a company avoid this liability?

What happens if the product i'm selling is, in fact, a battery? does it then have to last for five years? Or do I have to offer a replacement battery for my replacement battery?

Despite the fact that this law is new, current LiIon batteries won't last 5 full years, not under any type of normal use. What is the point of punishing companies for selling the best technology that currently exists?

Sorry, I did not make myself very clear on the phone-thing. The point is, with new Nokia-phones, that they are STUFFED with all the newest technology. It's a fact that MANY of these have to be repaired at some point, it be the battery, the screen, the bluetoot, whatever. The end-user shall not suffer because of this. Scenario 1 year ago: You buy a phone, go home, and discover that bluetooth does not work. You go back to shop, they say: "we fix within 4 week, have to send to Nokia". Scenario TODAY: Go back to store, get a new one.

Now, since there are so much faults with phones, we here in Norway have a laugh about that we allways have to go to the store and "update" :P Besides, we do not have to worry ever more about repair-time and stuff like that.

Then you ask me about batteries. If it was just the BATTERY in a phone that is default, we of course just get a new one. THE POINT IS THAT IN AN IPOD _WE_ CANNOT CHANGE IT, probably neither can the store. So? Get a new one. The store has its rights towards the producer of the product, agree? Then, let the store do what is has to do (towards apple), don't let the user suffer.

Then you ask me if a battery was sold seperatly. Do you not think that a single battery differs a lot from an iPod with a not-exchangabel battery? Everybody KNOW that a battery wil die out some day, you'll have to get a new one. But what about when you CAN'T exchange it, i.e. in the iPod?

WHY is this so bad to you? Do you not think that it is a good thing?

[TorbX]

Originally posted by andyduncan
Yeah, and don't forget the Apple stores. There was an earlier post complaining about those only being in the US. Maybe they avoid opening shops in Norway so that people will have reduced ability to:



:-)


Seriously, why do you mock me around? This is a good law. It stands up for the end-user against the big companys. Maybe you don't think it suits the iPod exampel perfectly, but it is a REALLY good law, and we are WAY ahed the rest of europe on user-rights.

*whimp*

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by TorbX
Everybody KNOW that a battery wil die out some day, you'll have to get a new one. But what about when you CAN'T exchange it, i.e. in the iPod?

WHY is this so bad to you? Do you not think that it is a good thing?

I like the idea of the consumer protection, don't get me wrong, i've been stung by warranty "repair" before (aka, "we take lungs today, new lungs come next week" (sic)).

What I see here is the difference between something getting worn out, and something breaking. If your bluetooth stopped working, it should be fixed. If the government says five years minimum, well, five years it is.

By your own admission, everyone knows a battery will wear out. If, as you say, the law doesn't apply to sales of batteries, then by extension it should not apply to devices that contain batteries (or at least the functionality affected by the battery, if the scroll wheel broke, I say replace it) It seems that if you bought a device you knew contained a battery, and you knew the battery would wear out eventually (as "everyone" does) then you don't have much right to complain when the battery wears out. Surely there must be other devices available in norway with rechargeable batteries that cannot be easily replaced.

It would seem that if Apple offered this battery replacement service in Norway, it would satisfy the law no? The battery would then have the ability to be replaced, like that of a phone. Or does the law specify cost/time/convenience?

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by TorbX
Seriously, why do you mock me around?
*whimp*

I was just kidding. Like i've said in each of my posts, I like the idea of user protection, i'm just curious as to the intricacies.

MORE user "rights" aren't necessarily a good thing.

[puffmarvin]

Originally posted by avus
I am certainly shocked and surprised how quickly this thread (and the first thread) turned into a MacCentral Forum that epitomizes narrow-mindedness, ignorance, and stupidity.

hear hear

[TorbX]

Originally posted by andyduncan
By your own admission, everyone knows a battery will wear out. If, as you say, the law doesn't apply to sales of batteries, then by extension it should not apply to devices that contain batteries (or at least the functionality affected by the battery, if the scroll wheel broke, I say replace it) It seems that if you bought a device you knew contained a battery, and you knew the battery would wear out eventually (as "everyone" does) then you don't have much right to complain when the battery wears out. Surely there must be other devices available in norway with rechargeable batteries that cannot be easily replaced.

It would seem that if Apple offered this battery replacement service in Norway, it would satisfy the law no? The battery would then have the ability to be replaced, like that of a phone. Or does the law specify cost/time/convenience?

The law specifies time and convenience. Since the battery cannot be replaced there and then (has to be sent to Apple), the store has a problem.

You see, in a phone, the battery is supposed to be changed, because the battery is not the main part of the phone. Its an device thats easy to replace. This is not the case at iPod. To my 60-year-old aunt, its just one piece of machinery. Sure, she must know that there is some kind of power in there, but it is not reachable. As the device is formed, she is not supposed to worry about it.

In Norway we do not have $99-thing. What shall we do? Crack it open? No. Send it to Apple anyway? Nope, the law says we don't have to. But we _should_, since the user is not supposed to crack it open himself. Then this is a fix. Its not just a battery change. Then again, law says: you don't have to wait for a slow-mo-company to fix your iPod, that is supposed to be working for (more than) five years.

I understand that you find this strange, but take my words on this: The rest of Europe WILL follow, and in another 40-50 years, America will too. From THEN on, when all the iPod-buying countries has consumer-laws like this, Apple wont dare to make blunders like this - where you can't replace the battery yourself.

Of course, by then batteries will last for decades without recharging :cool:

[TorbX]

Originally posted by avus
I am certainly shocked and surprised how quickly this thread (and the first thread) turned into a MacCentral Forum that epitomizes narrow-mindedness, ignorance, and stupidity.

Pardon me?

[stark23x]

Who made up the 5-year number for Norway? The iPod has always been known to last no more than three-ish years on the battery, and if you're buying one, don't you have any responsibility to research your purchase?

What if it was *designed* to last only 2-3 years? Does the government have the right to say "Sorry, tough luck, we say it should be five"

That kind of thing would NEVER fly in the US. I'm a consumer and not rich, and I would fight against it...Some moron politician is the last person I want telling a technology company how their technology *will* (not should) work.

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by TorbX
The law specifies time and convenience. Since the battery cannot be replaced there and then (has to be sent to Apple), the store has a problem.

Ok, well I don't completely disagree with that. As I said before, I like the idea of less wait. It's not always practical, however.

Originally posted by TorbX
I understand that you find this strange, but take my words on this: The rest of Europe WILL follow, and in another 40-50 years, America will too. From THEN on, when all the iPod-buying countries has consumer-laws like this, Apple wont dare to make blunders like this - where you can't replace the battery yourself.

I think 40-50 years is a little optimistic, it probably won't ever happen. I also find the underlying assumption that socialism is an indicator of progress to be pretty funny as well, but back to the topic:

At what point is a company able to say "this is the product we can offer at this price, these are the capabilities of this product. Would you like to buy it?"

Apple never advertised, listed or represented their product as being capable of lasting indefinitely, they didn't even say it could last five years.

If you want to make a law saying every product that uses a battery must have a removable one, that's fine. But If I truthfully represent the capabilities of my product to you, and you buy it anyway. You should have no right to demand a replacement when you wear it out. Anything else would be false advertising, and we do have laws against that, even here in the stoneage, I mean US.

If its possible that a device (perhaps not even an iPod) is technologically incapable of lasting for 5 years, at what point is the company who sells it no longer liable under this law?

You said yourself that "everyone knows" a battery has a limited life, and as such, people who sell batteries are not held by this law. At what point does this law take into account such generally accepted knowledge? How does such knowlege come to BE generally accepted? Is it not the responsibility of the company to state the capabilities of their product?

I'm sorry if i'm coming across harsh here, but i'm genuinely curious.

[TorbX]

Originally posted by stark23x
Who made up the 5-year number for Norway? The iPod has always been known to last no more than three-ish years on the battery, and if you're buying one, don't you have any responsibility to research your purchase?

What if it was *designed* to last only 2-3 years? Does the government have the right to say "Sorry, tough luck, we say it should be five"

That kind of thing would NEVER fly in the US. I'm a consumer and not rich, and I would fight against it...Some moron politician is the last person I want telling a technology company how their technology *will* (not should) work.

The courts have settled the 5-year number.

As you say, iPod usually lasts longer than 3 year, maybe modt probably 7-8 years (?).

But when this FAILS, the thing stops at 2.5 years... Then what? According to our law, you'll have to see at what you can EXPECT from the thing. And Apple cannot operate with i.e. 2-8 years. Because if they do, it's all up to you luck. And that's not what a consumer is paying for, is it?

I guess my country is a bit more left/red-ish. America is VERY Blue/right-ish. Everything is private, even hospitals and military food (McDonalds in a tent in Iraq). We have free health-care and organ-transplants for everyone, no matter your income and insurances.

BTW, anyone know about a law/political forum? Guess that'd be more suted for my discussion-needs... :rolleyes: :D :p

[TorbX]

YOU:
I think 40-50 years is a little optimistic, it probably won't ever happen. I also find the underlying assumption that socialism is an indicator of progress to be pretty funny as well, but back to the topic:

ME:
Depends on what you specify as progress. Progress for EVERYONE, or just some? Remember, Norway is _THE_richest_ country in the world, when you look at the living standards for each and every person. FAR beyond US.

YOU:
At what point is a company able to say "this is the product we can offer at this price, these are the capabilities of this product. Would you like to buy it?"

ME:
Does Apple do this? Look at their pages, does it say: "Will die after X years"?

YOU:
Apple never advertised, listed or represented their product as being capable of lasting indefinitely, they didn't even say it could last five years.

ME:
They don't say anything. They have realized that it should be battery-replacable, hence the $99-thing. The iPod itself lasts "forever", the battery don't.

YOU:
If you want to make a law saying every product that uses a battery must have a removable one, that's fine. But If I truthfully represent the capabilities of my product to you, and you buy it anyway. You should have no right to demand a replacement when you wear it out. Anything else would be false advertising, and we do have laws against that, even here in the stoneage, I mean US.

ME:
Does apple do this? US is not the stone-age! ;) US is democracy gone wild (Bush behind the wheel...)

YOU:
If its possible that a device (perhaps not even an iPod) is technologically incapable of lasting for 5 years, at what point is the company who sells it no longer liable under this law?

ME:
I hope I understood. Answer: The consumer shall expect a sertain lifetime for certain products. Period. The consumer shall not have hassels with NOKIA, or anybody. ("Liable"...?)

YOU:
You said yourself that "everyone knows" a battery has a limited life, and as such, people who sell batteries are not held by this law. At what point does this law take into account such generally accepted knowledge? How does such knowlege come to BE generally accepted? Is it not the responsibility of the company to state the capabilities of their product?

ME:
A consumer shall expect a certain lifetime for certain products. How long do YOU think your batteries should work? What is normal?

Norway is not Apples largest marked, so I don't really think they care too much. But if they took a look at our laws about this, they'd realize that things have gone wrong for them here.

YOU:
I'm sorry if i'm coming across harsh here, but i'm genuinely curious.

ME:
I'm generally willing to answer! :D

[TorbX]

genuinly

[LightFantastik]

You guys complaining don't seem to get it.

This proceedure is GOOD for the customer. What they are probably doing is "pre-repairing/refurbushing" the units. When you send yours in, they already have a unit completely ready to send out to you. It's already had the battery replaced, refurbushed, buffed and cleaned up, flashed to the latest firmware and made perfect, aside from the fact that it's technically "used" (but so was the one you sent in).

This way, you get a virtually new iPod, and it's ready to go right away. You don't have to wait for them to replace the battery in your specific unit, as they already have a comparable one fixed up and ready to send out. All they have to do is make sure they send the right size/generation to the right person.

Your service is quicker, better, and more efficent for everyone involved.

The reason people with engraving have to wait, is because they either need to re-engrave the refurbushed unit, or they need to actually inturrupt their normal refurbishing process to install the original back plate on the refurb they are sending out.

For some people, especially those who are comfortable prying apart their iPod, it might be a better option to buy an aftermarket battery for $50 and do it themselves. But for the average consumer, or someone smart enough to realize the benefits of getting a refurbushed product that will have been cleaned up, refreshed and totally checked out by an Apple tech, this $99 battery replacement service is a GREAT idea.

[Nicky G]

Originally posted by TorbX
Seriously, why do you mock me around? This is a good law. It stands up for the end-user against the big companys. Maybe you don't think it suits the iPod exampel perfectly, but it is a REALLY good law, and we are WAY ahed the rest of europe on user-rights.

*whimp*

And you don't think that Apple's higher prices in Europe in any way reflect these kinds of local laws? I agree, it sounds like a great law on the surface -- but companies can easily buffer those kinds of losses, and the easiest way is by charging more for the product in the first place. It doesn't strike me that the consumer is really gaining anything in the end.

[TorbX]

Originally posted by Nicky G
And you don't think that Apple's higher prices in Europe in any way reflect these kinds of local laws? I agree, it sounds like a great law on the surface -- but companies can easily buffer those kinds of losses, and the easiest way is by charging more for the product in the first place. It doesn't strike me that the consumer is really gaining anything in the end.

Yeah, POOR BIG COMPANY.

You think the consumer is gaining now? With uncertanty? With a product, only capable of lasting 5-7 years? WHATS THAT ALL ABOUT? Do you defend stupidity like that? Come on! Commodore 64's from the 80's still work like clocks! Why shall one not expect that from an IPOD!?!?!?

[ogravdal]

Originally posted by stark23x
Who made up the 5-year number for Norway? The iPod has always been known to last no more than three-ish years on the battery, and if you're buying one, don't you have any responsibility to research your purchase?

What if it was *designed* to last only 2-3 years? Does the government have the right to say "Sorry, tough luck, we say it should be five"


It's all about the expected lifetime for products. In Norway it's generally said that most electronic devices, including products such as the iPod, a mobile, a TV, stereo or a computer, should last for at least five years. That is what we pay for (and Norway has relatively low prices on such equipment, compared to other European countries).

Therefore, if it fails working and the lifetime gets shorter than expected, you have the right to get it repaired/replaced.

It's simple really...

(Although I'm also Norwegian I didn't know that I have the right to get it repaired/replaced at once - I guess the law is too new for me)

[Docrjm]

Originally posted by TorbX

I guess my country is a bit more left/red-ish. America is VERY Blue/right-ish. Everything is private, even hospitals and military food (McDonalds in a tent in Iraq). We have free health-care and organ-transplants for everyone, no matter your income and insurances.

BTW, anyone know about a law/political forum? Guess that'd be more suted for my discussion-needs... :rolleyes: :D :p
Would you like me to supersize that transplant?
Kidney with your fries?

:D

[acj]

The battery is worth $5 tops. I'm sure Apple pays less than that.Here (http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=160550&type=store) is something similar for $4 in bulk, just $5.50 each.

The real issue is that it's not user replaceable as a design feature. Apple knew the batteries wouldn't last long on a device people use daily. Li-ion cells are usually only good for under 1000 cycles.

[evil]

im surprised to see anyone actually complaining about the norwegian law that supports the common folk....ie..consumer.

doesnt everyone deserve protection from the government from the big business, and yes apple is included in this.

you die hard apple fans are sickening when you stick up for the fact that people shouldnt cry about having a product that will last them only a couple of years which would force them into buying a replacement.

[crazytom]

Personally, I'm shocked that Apple isn't charging MORE for the replacement battery. I'm just happy to see there's an alternative---I have no qualms about opening up my iPod to change the battery/hard drive to save a small fortune. Deep down, Apple is just another M$ with a slightly better demeanor.

[ssurgeman]

Ok I think both sides have a good point here. First lemmie lay out my bias. Liberal Democrat with no love for Bush. I belive in alot of the very fore-ward looking stuff going on in Europe.

Anyways I agree with the Norwegians (sp?) when they say that the device should last 5+ years. However we know obviously that the battery will not.

He bottom line for Apple. A. Put battery life in small print. B. Make the iPod battery replacible.

If they did either one of those (or both) I would not feel sorry at all for consumers wishing for a replacement. But becouse they make replacement so difficult I feel that this law is no entirely unfair.

On a side note. Though the per-capita is higher in Norway due to high taxes their take home average is not very high. Still when you factor in all the great stuff those taxes are used for it would be safe to say they are near the top. It just depends on how you look at it.

I hope nobody feels like a took a shot at them in this Becouse thats not true in the least. Well exept for people talking about iTunes, don't worry Apple is working their butts off to make it happen but its very very hard!

[alamar]

Why can't they teach the service techs at Comp USA and Best Buy to do this for 30 bucks? If they can put ram into an iBook this shouldn't be a problem.

On another note...I don't see getting anything that says you won't get your same HD back...I could be very very wrong on that of course, but it might be nice if they replaced a cracked screen and all the other things that can go wrong with these things with refurbished equipment. Not that I really know what problems if any are had.... At any rate, it might be like getting a band new (1st or 2nd gen) iPod back, for just 99 bucks, and that could maybe be nice for some people....

But like I said, there is no reason comp USA should not be able to crack this baby open and put a new battery AND NOTHING ELSE in.

Something ODD is going on here. Things were going so well for the iPod....why f it up?

[arn]

Originally posted by alamar


Something ODD is going on here. Things were going so well for the iPod....why f it up?

It's not odd.

This is pretty standard for warranty repairs. Read the terms of any warranty. If you get anything (monitor, computer etc...) repaired... they reserve the right to replace it with refurbished parts.

As someone else stated, you get a new case. They just don't guarantee you get the exact same innards.

It's most likely a side effect of the fact that they are processing this through their repair channels.

iPod with a bad hard drive comes in, they put it into the "look into this" pile and send out an iPod which has been factory refurbed... same deal.

arn

[eyeMAJIC]

Originally posted by Nicky G

Get over it already.

please shut up once and for all already.

GEEZ! Get over it already!

I thought you guys actually HAD functioning educational systems?



Hmmm..... it would appear that the only thing European education systems teach is the correct grammatical use of the word "already".

:p

[mainstreetmark]

Originally posted by aldo
Yea, I'm pissed about Apple only offering it to US markets. They are _completely_ ignoring the international markets.

Retail stores: US only, with one Japan store. While I can see this changing it's taking them way too long for a rollout of Europe stores.

iTMS: US only. Europe is scheduled sometime next year, but what sort of pricing makret will we have to pay.

Pricing in general: Ignoring VAT (sales tax), Apple charges a hell of a lot more for European consumers than US ones. It's shipped from Taiwan anyway, so why should it be cheaper in the US?

While I love Apple, the amount it is closing itself down to US markets is astonishing. I hope this will change, but I can't see it being a lot better than this current situation:rolleyes: .

Typical over-exaggeration. If they were "_completely_" ignoring the international market, as you so clearly emphasized, you wouldn't even HAVE an Apple.

I've decided not to even read the next two pages of this discussion thread if it's going to be all the international people complaining about how apple is ignoring them.

...as if the boys in Cupertino are going "Screw them commies! Let's make this US-only"

Apple is one of the MOST SUPPORTIVE members of the international community, as evidenced by the fact that OSX has like 50 different languages built right in! If I needed to, I could be typing in Chinese right now. And check this out: £ (You think that'll post? It's the 'Pound' sign - something the US has no internal use for)

The problem here, and with iTMS and Stores and ALL THAT CRAP is all about international law and international copyright.

It's the Lawyers, folks, not Apple. By a damn battery off of eBay and please, quit whining.

[macphoria]

This is a terrible after-sales customer service. I don't know why they have such lousy customer service when they make such great products.

[Nicky G]

Yes, Apple with the lousy customer service -- it's why they're the most highly rated in the computer industry.

Please.

How about everyone here who's a guerrilla Microsoft marketing lackey go away?

Or should I say, go away ALREADY. :P (Here in the USA perhaps we use "already" in a different fashion than Scots?)

I wish we had a moderation system like on Slashdot, so all the trolls would stop spreading their FUD left and right.

And by the way, I would be interested to hear how much of a Norwegian's income goes to taxes that in turn subsidize companies like Nokia, so they can afford such "progressive" consumer laws. We certainly prop up major corporations in the USA with our taxes, don't get me wrong -- but at least we're aware of the fact, and don't try to pretend we live in a progressive utopia that is only out to serve the needs of the common proletariat.

But alas, this is the wrong forum for that discussion, and I promise to stop now. Please, be my guest and continue to spread your FUD in any way you see fit.

[TorbX]

Originally posted by Nicky G
And by the way, I would be interested to hear how much of a Norwegian's income goes to taxes that in turn subsidize companies like Nokia, so they can afford such "progressive" consumer laws. We certainly prop up major corporations in the USA with our taxes, don't get me wrong -- but at least we're aware of the fact, and don't try to pretend we live in a progressive utopia that is only out to serve the needs of the common proletariat.

We pay a lot of taxes, from 30-48% depending on how much you earn. None of it goes to Nokia! (?) ..But it goes to free helth-care. If you drink and drive and crash in Norway - and end up 99% invalid, the governement will hire four people to watch over you 24/7 to give you a worthy life. Take you to the movies, the shop, anything. For free, no matter WHO you are, or WHAT you did before you got injured.

A fact: Norway (and Sweden, as well) are the two countries in the world where the highest % of the population has e cell-phone and a computer at home with internett. FAR, far, beyond USA. Northern Europe is a market where Nokia (and others) truly has succeded (sorry spelling).

[TorbX]

...other things than free helth-care as well, of course. We have cinemas owned by the government, subway, busses, kindergardens, schools, anything.

[brianbobcat]

Originally posted by MoparShaha
I don't like how they won't send your own iPod back to you. In fact, I find it unnacceptable. I guess it would be nice if they sent you one with less scratches, ect., but I develop a personal bond with my stuff. I don't like the idea of being given something different.

I have also developed a bond with ALL my apple stuff. If my battery started to die, I would first buy that belkin accessory that uses AA batteries to power the iPod, and then later on if the problem got worse, I would probably buy one of the do it urself kits. Nice idea, but this is one of apple's flawed ideas.

-Brian

[macphoria]

Yes, Apple with the lousy customer service -- it's why they're the most highly rated in the computer industry.

If Apple keeps this up, their customer service rating won't be highly rated. Besides, I personally don't think their service should be highly rated. I've been using Mac for over 10 years and their service has been consistently disappointing. Matter of fact, I recently had to go through their customer service to fix my Power Mac and had to sort out them over charging my credit card. And when that was cleared I still got billed extra because of some late penalty issue caused by problem mentioned above. Basically it was a mess.

Having to send in iPod, because of dead battery, and receiving a replacement that could be a refurbished product is completely outrageous. I would rather they replace the battery only. Or provide me with a brand new one, which I admit is asking too much.

And chance of receiving refurbished product is high. Your iPod battery won't die for at least a year, maybe couple of years if you take care of it. After that much time has gone by, Apple will have its stock of used/refurbished iPods that were sent in, which will include same model that you bought. They will use them for your replacement.

Besides, would you want to send in your PowerBook when its battery dies and receive a different machine? With different settings? Also, as people here have mentioned, us Mac users become attached to their Macs, which is wonderful thing about using Apple products. Replacing our machine with something else is not a good way to reinforce that sentiment. Apple could say "Aw they'll get over it." They could say that about a lot of things. But do you want them to?

Again, Apple makes great product but this is a terrible way to go about servicing people who love their iPods.

[asphalt-proof]

Originally posted by TorbX
Sorry, I did not make myself very clear on the phone-thing. The point is, with new Nokia-phones, that they are STUFFED with all the newest technology. It's a fact that MANY of these have to be repaired at some point, it be the battery, the screen, the bluetoot, whatever. The end-user shall not suffer because of this. Scenario 1 year ago: You buy a phone, go home, and discover that bluetooth does not work. You go back to shop, they say: "we fix within 4 week, have to send to Nokia". Scenario TODAY: Go back to store, get a new one.

Now, since there are so much faults with phones, we here in Norway have a laugh about that we allways have to go to the store and "update" :P Besides, we do not have to worry ever more about repair-time and stuff like that.

Then you ask me about batteries. If it was just the BATTERY in a phone that is default, we of course just get a new one. THE POINT IS THAT IN AN IPOD _WE_ CANNOT CHANGE IT, probably neither can the store. So? Get a new one. The store has its rights towards the producer of the product, agree? Then, let the store do what is has to do (towards apple), don't let the user suffer.

Then you ask me if a battery was sold seperatly. Do you not think that a single battery differs a lot from an iPod with a not-exchangabel battery? Everybody KNOW that a battery wil die out some day, you'll have to get a new one. But what about when you CAN'T exchange it, i.e. in the iPod?

WHY is this so bad to you? Do you not think that it is a good thing?

Hey I want my phone to have Bluetoot also. Can I get that in the US or do I have to but it in Norway.

Sorry I am not trying to be an A Hole... it just struck me as extremely funny.

[toughboy]

why dont they sell the battery itself instead of taking OUR iPods and replacing it with SOMEONE else's???

I remember that Genuis Bars in Apple Stores could add rams and fix stuff when you go to them, can't they just change our batteries too.. ( I guess I can change mine, I saw a disassembling of an iPod, it's simply not that hard...)

[toughboy]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
Typical over-exaggeration. If they were "_completely_" ignoring the international market, as you so clearly emphasized, you wouldn't even HAVE an Apple.

I bought my 12"PBG4 and iPod 3G 15gigs from US when I traveled, just because that they are much more expensive and it takes about a week to them to arrive when you order in Turkey...

I bought my old 2G iPod from Turkey, but I paid like 500 Euros + tax (not even dolars, which Euros worth more than USDs) when americans paid only 400 dolars..

Do you get me now when we say that Apple (or lawyers, I really dont care) ignores international markets?!?

London, Berlin, Paris, Milano.. they deserve Apple Stores.. Istanbul is over 12 millions of population, there can be at least 1 Apple Store where CA, NY, Boston has many, even Buffalo (NY) has one...

[arn]

Originally posted by toughboy
why dont they sell the battery itself instead of taking OUR iPods and replacing it with SOMEONE else's???

You can still get batteries from 3rd parties and do it yourself.

arn

[Nicky G]

I think what it comes down to is, some people are upset the battery is simply not user-replaceable, and they are going to throw a hissy-fit over it.

The reason it's not user-replaceable comes down to size, and the fact that your iPod would be significantly larger and heavier if the battery were user-replaceable. Batteries that consumers are interacting with directly need to have extra casing and protection that the internal battery does not require.

I really don't understand why people are so upset by this. We all ought to know that batteries wear down over the course of a few years and thousands of recharge cycles. Chemicals deplete. This is not Apple's fault, it's the state of battery technology. When fuel-cells are out in a few years this will be a non-issue.

Knowing that the battery is internal, and will inherently wear down with repeated use, I don't see why so many people are surprised and/or miffed. Maybe the consumer should do a little more research on basic technological issues before plunking down $500 on a walkman.

[toughboy]

Originally posted by arn
You can still get batteries from 3rd parties and do it yourself.

arn

how? especially if you have any ideas about how to get them in Europe, I'd be really thankful..

[deepkid]

Originally posted by seamuskrat
So its a sweet deal for 1G 5 gigers.
It helps explain the 99 istead a more reasonable 69.00

Hmm... maybe I should send in my 1G sardine can ipod, since the battery and HD are scrapped. Could have avoided a 3G purchase earlier this year, if this option was available.

Anybody want a soon-to-be refurbed sardine can pod? :)

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by toughboy
I bought my old 2G iPod from Turkey, but I paid like 500 Euros + tax (not even dolars, which Euros worth more than USDs) when americans paid only 400 dolars..

Do you get me now when we say that Apple (or lawyers, I really dont care) ignores international markets?!?


The US is the biggest car market in the world, yet we still pay more for our BMWs than people in germany do. We also don't get as many models, and the models we do get are often crippled compared to their german counterparts. This isnt because BMW wants to screw Amercians any more than Apple wants to screw europeans. Its just that this is how international business works. You want free trade? Heck, so do I. But it's not Apple's fault we don't have it.

ps: liable means legally responsible.

[sushi]

Originally posted by acj
The battery is worth $5 tops. I'm sure Apple pays less than that.Here (http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=160550&type=store) is something similar for $4 in bulk, just $5.50 each.
Obviously you didn't look closely at the add.

The battery in the iPod is much different that this particular model.

I doubt that the form fitting thin battery used in the iPod is available for $5 in bulk quantities.

Sushi

[bretm]

And, to increase their profits even more, they're not even keeping up with who's is who's. That would require more logistics, keeping up with the pod as it goes through the system, then being responsible if it croaks. This way, they keep up with what came in, and make sure one goes out. In fact, they probably put them in a pile. In teh other pile is refurbished ones. Rest assured that "refurbished" means completely new external case. It would be too much trouble for them to deal with what everyone is discussing about scratches, etc. They'll throw yours in a pile. Someone in back sits around ripping the front and back off the thing. Then someone else puts a new battery in. Then someone else puts a brand new case on. Then it gets wiped clean and gets sent to someone.

Hasn't anyone ever returned a cell phone for repair before? That's what they do.

But I'm attached to mine too. Jut go buy a battery and put it in. Apparently $49. Apple SHOULD sell the batteries and have instructions on their own site. That would be the right thing to do.

Originally posted by Le Big Mac
Are you kidding? Of course they are. You can buy the battery for $50 at retail. Apple probably pays half that or less in bulk. But even at $50, they get $50 more to cover labor and shipping (if that's even included). No way it takes trained personnel more than 10 minutes to replace the battery. That's as much as many top lawyers make--$300/hour.

Apple could offer this for $49 and turn a small profit. $69 and a reasonable profit. At $99 it smells really expensive.

And, yeah, it's better to have a choice than no choice. But that doesn't mean we can't complain about the "choice" if it sucks.

[gilwave]

http://www.cellular.co.za/news_2000/news-11272000_iceland_penetration.htm
Nov 28 2000

Iceland has overtaken Finland for the first time in several years as the country with the world's largest number of mobile phone users per capita, a wireless market research group said.

The survey by EMC World Cellular Database showed that Iceland's cellular phone penetration stood at 75.8 percent out of the total population at the end of September this year compared to Finland's 73.7 percent.

Trends in the region are closely followed for indications of how much other, bigger mobile telecom markets can grow before maturing.

Favourable prices for mobile phone calls has helped Iceland boost the number of cellular phone users, EMC said.

Analysts also see the presence of Finnish Nokia , the world's largest mobile phone maker, and Sweden's Ericsson , the third biggest cellular phone producer and the top maker of mobile network equipment, to have helped push the development of the phone and its use in this region.

Nordic countries Finland, Sweden and Iceland are also the top users of the Internet per capita, according to recent research.

[gilwave]

Proud Little Finland Tops World Rankings
Dan Ackman, 10.31.03, 9:09 AM ET
from Foebes.com

Finland, the small Scandinavian nation, boasts the world's "most competitive" economy, beating the United States and fellow Scandinavian Sweden for top honors, according to a survey by the World Economic Forum, the folks best known for their annual confab in Davos.

Aside from Finland and Sweden, snowy nations did well in the survey, with fourth-ranked Denmark, Switzerland, Iceland and Norway all in the top ten along with Taiwan and Singapore. Australia rounds out the top ten.

<snip>

Finland, home to mobile-phone firm Nokia (nyse: NOK - news - people ), retained its top ranking from last year on the strength of its solid "all-round performance," the WEF said. The United States, home to giants like IBM (nyse: IBM - news - people ), Merck (nyse:MRK - news - people ) and Microsoft (nasdaq: MSFT - news - people ), is "commanding" technology, but this strength is offset "by some weakening in the quality of its public institutions and macroeconomic environment, particularly public finances," an area where the U.S. placed just 50th among the 102 countries surveyed.

<snip>

How did Finland, with a population of just 5.2 million, come out on top? Honesty is a big factor, as the nation had high scores for judicial independence, property rights and the absence of crime and corruption. Surprisingly, it was just tenth in cell-phone usage. The U.S., by contrast, was ranked just ninth in property rights and 13th in judicial independence.

Taiwan and Singapore, ranked fifth and sixth, are Asia's top scorers, the WEF found. Taiwan's position is largely due to its excellent performance in technology, and Singapore's to its sound macroeconomic environment and quality of public institutions.

<snip>

But the big story is the amazing success of Scandinavia. The entire region has just one company, Nokia, among the top 100 of the Forbes 2000 list of global public companies. It has just eight billionaires, none in Finland. But Sweden, with Volvo Group (nasdaq: VOLVY - news - people ), Norway and Denmark scored high on the public-integrity meters and all have GDPs per capita not far behind the U.S. The Nordic countries were also ranked the best places to live in the world by a United Nations survey, which ranked nations by factors such as education, democracy, income and public health.

But despite their economic success and their amazing livability, all have low birth rates and little population growth, raising the question: What do the Scandinavian people know that the folks in Davos and Geneva don't?

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
Typical over-exaggeration. If they were "_completely_" ignoring the international market, as you so clearly emphasized, you wouldn't even HAVE an Apple.

What kind of argument is that? Actually you can ignore a market even though you sell your products there. Please upgrade from b/w to color TV! :D ;)

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
I've decided not to even read the next two pages of this discussion thread if it's going to be all the international people complaining about how apple is ignoring them.

Yeah, since you have what you want, who cares for the others, huh?

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
...as if the boys in Cupertino are going "Screw them commies! Let's make this US-only"

Nobody said that... For some people discussing logical seems to be really hard! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
Apple is one of the MOST SUPPORTIVE members of the international community, as evidenced by the fact that OSX has like 50 different languages built right in! If I needed to, I could be typing in Chinese right now. And check this out: £ (You think that'll post? It's the 'Pound' sign - something the US has no internal use for)

*LOL* Wow! You are really funny! Your are not serious, right? *LOL*

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
The problem here, and with iTMS and Stores and ALL THAT CRAP is all about international law and international copyright.

You seem to be a real expert in that field. Congrats!

Originally posted by mainstreetmark
It's the Lawyers, folks, not Apple. By a damn battery off of eBay and please, quit whining.

So the lawyers are the reason for everything? You should try a career as a comedian dude. You don't have a clue what you are talking about. And I don't wonder why, considering you always skip the parts of a discussion you finally could learn something from...

groovebuster

[Fahd]

Originally posted by TorbX
As a law student in Norway, I love to brag about our legal system. Check this:

If my iPod's battery goes dead within the five first years after purchase, I can just go back to the store and say "give me a new one".

The battery on the 3rd gen is not supposed to be changed. I mean, the iPod is not built to be opened. It SHOULD last 5 years, without being opened for an battery-change. Because of this, I can just say "give me a new one" at the store.

If it happens AGAIN (third time) within 5 new years, I can say "give me my money back. I don't like the product you sold me".

It just rocks... "Everyone" in Norway has new cell-phones all the time. These laws are actually hated by Nokia and Ericsson and other flaw-full phones. It's a really big issue these days. "Consumer before company profit". Probably the work of som left-wing semi communist-partys...

:-P

Heh...sounds awesome, any chance you could do some buying and shipping for me? :D

[Fahd]

Originally posted by andyduncan
...Apple never advertised, listed or represented their product as being capable of lasting indefinitely, they didn't even say it could last five years...

If thats your attitude, then I believe apple should post a prominent "disclaimer" with every ipod before the purchase process that says "Battery is non user replaceable". The currently accepted norm is that portable electronics have batteries that are user replaceable.

(I agree with the rest of your post!)

[groovebuster]

Originally posted by andyduncan
The US is the biggest car market in the world, yet we still pay more for our BMWs than people in germany do.

This is just bogus! One of those ferrytales... When did you personally check the prizes in Europe the last time? I bet you never did, otherwise you would know that prizes are almost exactly 1:1.

Originally posted by andyduncan
We also don't get as many models, and the models we do get are often crippled compared to their german counterparts.


Also not true. Fact is, that the smaller engines wouldn't sell in North America well and that's why you don't get them there. Actually the Z4 (which is build in the USA) was introduced 6 months earlier in the US than in Germany! How does that fit together with your astonishing theory? Other than that you get pretty much the same features and extras as in Europe.

Originally posted by andyduncan
This isnt because BMW wants to screw Amercians any more than Apple wants to screw europeans. Its just that this is how international business works. You want free trade? Heck, so do I. But it's not Apple's fault we don't have it.

Another expert in that field! I am amazed about the deep knowledge of international business some people on this board seem to have... :rolleyes:

Maybe you can elaborate a little further how that "international business works"? I am eager to learn something from you!

Fact is, that even though the € is relatively strong compared to the US$, Apple charges about 16% higher prizes in Europe. Since the hardware is shipped from Asia, no matter if it is sold in Europe or North America, the difference can't be explained by "import taxes"... get your facts straight! Thank you!

It is also fact, that Apple charges the same or even higher prizes for products that don't have the same functionality or features outside the US. Interesting, isn't it? Best example is .Mac. Same prize but less features for people outside the US. And it's a software thing in first place. So that's how international business works? ;)

And at last I want to ask you why you try to excuse the misbehaviour of one company with the misbehaviour of another one (considering your example would have held any water)?

I just had a huge hassle with the Apple Store Europe regarding my order of an iBook G4. After that I will never buy anything from the Apple Store anymore since they were proving themselves incompetent. And actually I am so not impressed by the way Apple treats its international customers, that I would be more than happy to abandon the Mac platform. Unfortunately there is no real alternative on the market and I hate Windows even more. But if Apple really goes on like that on the long-term, one day a "divorce" is inevitable...

groovebuster

[ogravdal]

Originally posted by TorbX
We pay a lot of taxes, from 30-48% depending on how much you earn. None of it goes to Nokia! (?) ..But it goes to free helth-care. If you drink and drive and crash in Norway - and end up 99% invalid, the governement will hire four people to watch over you 24/7 to give you a worthy life. Take you to the movies, the shop, anything. For free, no matter WHO you are, or WHAT you did before you got injured.

I wish I could agree on what you are saying now...

Free health care: To a certain extent I agree, but only if you accept waiting many months for even a simple surgery. Last time I needed to go see the doctor I would have to pay NOK 180 ($25) only to get an appointment and in addition I would have to wait about two hours.. Because I was lucky to be close to a private clinic I went there instead. I paid almost three times more, but I got two more hours of paid salaries that day.

Some years ago my mother suffered a cerebral haemorrhage (I don't know if it has a better translation but it's what's written in the dictionary). She has recovered quite well and has even tried for a while to return to her old job (which is related to the public health care). Now however, she has given up and decided to get a status invalid/disabled. It's been a very difficult decision as there is so many things she wants to do, but she is simply not able to. For her to finally accept that she is disabled was hard.. Well, she now receives next to nothing from the government. Only a symbolic amount of money, but no more help than that... If anyone has been hired because of my mother, I'm sure they sit in an office somewhere in Oslo, running our annoyingly expensive bureaucracy... (Personally I've worked as a support person for someone who was disabled, but that was only a few hours a week).

...other things than free helth-care as well, of course. We have cinemas owned by the government, subway, busses, kindergardens, schools, anything.

For a ten kilometre bus ride I pay NOK 31 ($8,2) and only Oslo has a subway (as far as I know). The only thing that is free for most people is the schools... But, not everything is perfect there either.. Because of few teachers it's become a standardisation machine with no time for the individual pupil.

Even most colleges and universities in Norway are free. However, most people need to leave their hometown to study, and therefore are required to get student loans. Although I don't pay anything now while I'm a student I have to pay back about $50000 + interest to the government when I start working. In addition it was no public colleges that offered my studies so I had to attend a private college. I got extra student loans to pay half the study fee ("only" $6000 per year). The rest I had to cover by working while studying, or by getting extra loans in other banks.

In addition I should mention infrastructure... I live on an island on the west coast of Norway.. Until a few years ago it was impossible to leave the the island by other means than by ferry. Since the main-road along the coast crosses the island it was therefore decided that we would get a bridge and tunnel that would connect us the mainland in south. Calculations showed that the price of this project would be so high that the whole population on the island (20000) could instead have travelled for free, including a free dinner onboard the ferry, for their rest of their life.

Now the project has been finished and I can leave the island with no worries about the ferry-schedule. However, who must pay for this project? It's us who live there (which sounds reasonable), by paying $12 every-time we pass, as well as extra fees every time we use any of the other ferries that connects to our island.

The truth is simply that we pay too much, for everything.. In addition to all the taxes that are supposed to cover the same things...

[Hattig]

That is a very expensive price for a battery that they are likely paying very little for. Yeah, it must include posting and packing and all that, which is fair enough, but I don't think that would be $70.

Maybe it includes a new case for the iPod as well, so that even though the costly interior components are reused, the outside is pristine. I doubt that the case is that expensive to make.

However I don't want to get an iPod back, say "Hurrah!" go out and then get some other persons Reggae collection!

[gilwave]

Karl...

Thank you for adding a needed dose of Norway-realism to this thread. One would think from TorbX's posts that Norway was a utopia.

Many countires with socialized medicine have similar problems - long waits, "clinic" style facilities, lots of beurocracy. I once remarked to the owner of HHB in London that it must be nice to not have to pay for health insurance for his employees (I pay a small fortune every month for my employees) and he told me that he wouldn't subject his emplyees to the UK's public health care system, and that he had private health insurance for all of them.

So not everything is as it first appears, or how it looks on paper.

-gil

[gilwave]

The other problem with not getting back your original is that if you own a 1G model, and they send you a 2G or 3G as a replacement, you lose a very important function unique to the 1G - a real, moving scroll-wheel.

The 1G models are the only ones that allow you to use the iPod with gloves on. Many motorcycle riders use the 1G iPod mounted on their gas tank or between the handlebars, and of course they're wearing gloves.

So I'd want to be sure I got a 1G replacement.

The same people who do the $59 battery replacement (PDASmart.com) also repair and replace the scroll wheels when the start to stick (as my 5GB one does). They charge $55 to do it, so with the battery it's $114, or just $14 more than Appl echarges just for the battery replacement, lus I get my original iPod (with engraving) back.

Sounds like a win-win situation for 1G owners.

-gil

[TorbX]

Originally posted by gilwave
Karl...

Thank you for adding a needed dose of Norway-realism to this thread. One would think from TorbX's posts that Norway was a utopia.

Many countires with socialized medicine have similar problems - long waits, "clinic" style facilities, lots of beurocracy. I once remarked to the owner of HHB in London that it must be nice to not have to pay for health insurance for his employees (I pay a small fortune every month for my employees) and he told me that he wouldn't subject his emplyees to the UK's public health care system, and that he had private health insurance for all of them.

So not everything is as it first appears, or how it looks on paper.

-gil

I did not ever say that it functions perfectly - it does not. But it works. Everybody gets the treatment.

... And we can se "Give me a new one!" :p

[TorbX]

Gil...

By the way: Norway wos widely commented in 60 minutes a year back. An english bloke hade some serious decieses (deadly, if not treated). The fact was that he needed to live in warm environment. Spain was suitable. So he got himself a Norwegian citizenship - became a Norwegian on the paper. Then the government gave the guy a place to live in spain, during wintertime. And two nurses to go.

Utopia?

[gilwave]

"Then the government gave the guy a place to live in spain, during wintertime. And two nurses to go.

Utopia?"

No. He spends his whole life paying taxes in and to England, which goes to pay their social programs.

Now he goes to Norway, where he has paid NOTHING his whole life (but you and your fellow Norwegians have), gets a passport with no intnetion of living in or supporting the Norwgian economy and social system.

He then uses that passport, and the goodwill of the taxpayers and government of Norway, to go to Spain, where he will contirbute to the Spanish economy.

I do not think this is ethically or morally right. Just because you CAN do a thing,
doesn't mean you SHOULD do a thing.

You seem to be proud of the fact that your tax dollars support a system that is so easily misused and abused.

Clearly, that is not what the public nor the gorvernment of Norway had in mind when they put these programs in place.

-gil

[TorbX]

Originally posted by gilwave
I do not think this is ethically or morally right. Just because you CAN do a thing,
doesn't mean you SHOULD do a thing.

You seem to be proud of the fact that your tax dollars support a system that is so easily misused and abused.

Clearly, that is not what the public nor the gorvernment of Norway had in mind when they put these programs in place.

-gil

We are not very "Mine and yours". We believe in health and wealth for every Norwegian, both for new citizens and old.

It's good, and its getting better. It works. Some day, all Norwegians will be where 10% of the americans are today.

Let's end this now. I'm sorry for bringing this up in an iPod-discussion. My point was that we do not have to worry about any unpredictable battery-problem issues in the iPod within the first five years after purchase - only because it can't be replaced by the user.

THE END
:p

[Fahd]

Page 50 of the iPod user guide says "iPod's non-removable internal battery was designed to last for the life of the product."

With a claim like that, they should replace the battery for free. Since that wont be feasible for apple they should do it at cost or with a low markup. Not $99 each!

[andyduncan]

Originally posted by groovebuster Fact is, that the smaller engines wouldn't sell in North America well and that's why you don't get them there.

Smaller engines that wouldn't sell? You mean like every special edition (http://www.bmw.de/de/produkte/automobiles/index2.html?model=mseries&brand=m3csl) of the M3 that has come out in the past 14 years?

Why is it that companies don't bother to sell low volume/specialty cars in multiple countries (american car co.s do this too) it's because it costs money to certify them in each country to ensure they are in accordance with that country's laws. Why bother when you only have a few to sell anyway?

The laws affect the availability/price of mass-production cars too, and either we don't get the cars at all, or like in the current m3, we get a version with less horsepower and a more restrictive Cat. (our M3 only puts out 333ps)

Translation? The regulations cause the companies to cripple their product or not sell it at all. I think thats pretty applicable to what i was saying about the Norweigan laws. How? If the law sets technical requirements on devices sold in that country, the users who purchase those devices will eventually pay for those increased requirements, the offending feature will be cut out (if possible), or they won't get the product at all.

Originally posted by groovebuster Maybe you can elaborate a little further how that "international business works"? I am eager to learn something from you!
What a troll! This isn't an international business forum, but I'm sure if you found one, you'd see that doing business across countries involves costs associated with complying with local laws. If you don't think THAT'S true, you have larger issues. Please, at least make an attempt at an argument here, rather than dismiss the point out of hand.

I think the closest similarity in this analogy is that of the SMG gearbox in the m3. In europe there is a feature that allows you to perform a computer-controlled start. I'm sure you're familiar with it, its a pretty cool system, and it's gotten a lot of press. The thing is, you are limited to a certain number of starts before you void your warranty (actually a portion of your warranty), as this type of thing is rather hard on the tranny. In the US version, the feature is still there, but instead of revving the engine to 5k or whatever it is, it only revs to 2.5k before it drops the clutch. Why? glad you asked, because there are laws in the US that say (more or less) that you can't provide a feature that you know your customers will use and you know will void their warranty.

Did BMW go out and improve their clutch for the US version so that we get a better car, as the Norweigian law would imply. IE: better laws make for better engineering? No, they just crippled that feature.

If Apple has to re-tool the iPod to make it fit the laws for that country the cost of the product in that country will likely increase to cover the increase in expense. Remember how Apple had to dampen the audio output for France? What might have happened if that couldn't be done in software? Apple probably swallowed the cost of the softare update, but I doubt they would have been so generous if France required a different type of hardware.

Even for devices that are identical across markets, you make it sound like I must be retarded. You make it seem like the only possible variable costs across countries would be the import tax or the exchange rate. I think you know that's not true, and we don't need to go into each of the laws of every individual country to come to the agreement that there ARE differences, and those differences often cost money.

Originally posted by groovebuster I just had a huge hassle with the Apple Store Europe regarding my order of an iBook G4.
Is that what this is all about?

[oliverbothwell]

Originally posted by aldo
Yea, I'm pissed about Apple only offering it to US markets. They are _completely_ ignoring the international markets.

Retail stores: US only, with one Japan store. While I can see this changing it's taking them way too long for a rollout of Europe stores.

iTMS: US only. Europe is scheduled sometime next year, but what sort of pricing makret will we have to pay.

Pricing in general: Ignoring VAT (sales tax), Apple charges a hell of a lot more for European consumers than US ones. It's shipped from Taiwan anyway, so why should it be cheaper in the US?

While I love Apple, the amount it is closing itself down to US markets is astonishing. I hope this will change, but I can't see it being a lot better than this current situation:rolleyes: .

Apple have to pay larger amounts of VAT in the UK. Britain also tax computers more as well, that's why computers are more expensive in UK and the rest of Europe.

[Mac Dummy]

Originally posted by bignumbers
I'm mixed on this... $99 really isn't that bad for what they're doing - processing and receiving your iPod, cracking open an iPod, replacing the battery, sealing it up, formatting/testing, packaging and returning. If the battery costs $50 at ipodbattery.com, the extra $50 is for the labor and return shipping, along with (I assume - I haven't checked) some sort of additional warranty, probably 90 days. Most hardware service centers won't breath on a peripheral for twice that.

I think if they were to track each user's iPod the cost would be higher. I also think they risk scratching some percentage of iPods while cracking them open, and just saying you might not get yours back is a way of covering their butts for those cases.

For the concern of getting someone else's scratched-and-beaten iPod, I'd be surprised if they did that. They'd have too many peeved customers. I think they'll be replacing many cases while doing this.

My bigger problem is with the design of the iPod, not (easily) allowing a user-replacable battery. If there was a reasonable way to pop it open, none of this would be at issue.

I have also wondered why Apple hasn't allowed a user-replaceable battery option like Creative has done with the Zen NX. It would seem like a simple thing to do, and Apple could still make the Ipod attractive. (maybe have a panel that comes off like the memory (RAM) panel on their Powerbooks) Because with only 8-10 hrs of battery life. (Sometimes less) It would be nice to be able to replace the battery if you couldn't charge it immediately.

[sorrow]

this is can be good ? http://shop.store.yahoo.com/laptopsforless/pdainbatfora.html

[jrthib]

The page warns that "iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service."


it does not say that anywhere in the ipod battery replacement page.

http://www.info.apple.com/support/applecare_products/service/ipod_service.html

where do you people get this from?

-jrthib