Apple as the hood sponsor of a Winston (er, NEXTEL) cup car? [Archive]

BaghdadBob

Nov 15, 2003, 06:09 PM

Now that Apple seems to be making money again, they could spend about 15-18 million dollars annually to be the hood/deck/rear panel sponsor of a Winston Cup car (which will be the NEXTEL cup next year). If they teamed up with IBM, much the way Alltell and Mobil 1 are co-sponsors of Ryan Newman's awesome ride, they could easily afford it.

What do you think? This would be great advertising money. For one thing, NASCAR fans are shown to have a very high propensity to support brands that support their sport, and that market is an important one for Apple to make headway into. Also, much the way DuPont does with Jeff Gordon's ride, the hood can stay the same every week (a killer glass/chrome Apple logo) while the rear panel can have some Apple product, like the iSight, or iPod, or G5. And when there's something really big they can change the hood too to have a picture of the object. All you really need is good designers, lots of special schemes just don't look good and are hard to see in motion.

So, the question is, who drives?

Alltell has a great driver in Ryan Newman, because they're a telecom company, and he's a engineer. He's very successful, and also kinda nerdy.

DuPont has a great driver in Jeff Gordon because...well, he's the winningest driver currently in the sport, but he also has a lot of class, which is great for a superlative scientific corporation like DuPont. Originally the focus was on DuPont automotive finishes, which is why his car has always had lots of color, and, if you ask me, has the best paint job on the track.

I hate Tony Stewart because he's a slimy jerk, but he is driving a ride sponsored by a Home Depot...

If you're a racing fan, what driver (not currently either sponsored in WC or in a strong relationship with their sponsor) could you see driving the Apple car?

For some photos of Gordon's car, including the rear with a DuPont product featured, go here: http://www.jeffgordon.com/tracks/atlanta/2003/2/photo.php

Dont Hurt Me

Nov 15, 2003, 06:16 PM

I agree 100% tony is a jerk! this would be a great way to get that logo everywhere, the problem is you need a yahoo at Apple and i think they are populated by the lets look at that painting crowd? there should all ready be a Apple Nacar sponsership going in my opinion. this is the biggest event in america on a weekly basis, imagine a 200,000 sitting at the race let alone the millions that watch every week.

BaghdadBob

Nov 15, 2003, 06:32 PM

Oh yeah...what number should he/she drive? Speaking of "She" I think, if there was a female driver out there who had real talent, that would be perfect for Apple. The bad thing to do would be to get a driver who is all looks and no substance.......

judith

Nov 15, 2003, 06:37 PM

Oh yes, you go ahead and start this kinda rumor baby! Next thing ya know, MS will be building a NASCAR track right here in Seattle - ...I'm lovin' it.

Dont Hurt Me

Nov 15, 2003, 06:52 PM

Apple seems to me to be allways able to find a way to screw up?? Look at the sponsers at Nascar its like the super bowl every week and Apple is missing it because like i said they are a bunch of liberal artsy high society types, well lets just say not grass roots America. Nascar is way bigger here in the south and if you notice Apple is doing a poor poor job of opening up stores in the southeast except for florida lately. anyways they dont get it that millions of fans love racing!

BaghdadBob

Nov 15, 2003, 07:25 PM

@ DHM: Yeah, that's exactly why a NASCAR sponsorship would be perfect, because they're seen as snooty. They need to assault that market, and a cup car would be the ultimate way to do it. Getting involved in NASCAR would be saying that they're not too good for southern folk. When the demographics start being more positive in those areas, then they should start opening the stores. I don't know what their southern store base is, but Memphis, Atlanta, Indianappolis (OK, not southern, but you get the point) should be well covered especially in conjunction with a sponsorship.

@ judith: Microsoft would have two cars with 20 million in sponsorship each. But the car would be ugly. Just like a McDonalds car. God, who would drive the MS car, Greg Biffle? No...wait...Christian Fittipaldi! And make the car blue! He crashes almost as much as Windows! Muwahahahahaha!

judith

Nov 15, 2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by BaghdadBob

@ judith: Microsoft would have two cars with 20 million in sponsorship each. But the car would be ugly. Just like a McDonalds car. God, who would drive the MS car, Greg Biffle? No...wait...Christian Fittipaldi! And make the car blue! He crashes almost as much as Windows! Muwahahahahaha!

Well, true to their style of one-up'edness, it would be a ridiculously simple way to expend tons of cash while also permanently affixing thier brand to the facility i.e: FedEx Field, etc., as done with some stadiums. Plus, I want a track up here in Washington State! Albeit a disqusting thought that it would be named "The Microsoft 400" brought to you at Microsoft Motor Speedway by The Microsoft Corporation. Even sadder: the fact that I'd be willing to accept this, just so we could have NASCAR! How bad have you got it??

Dont Hurt Me

Nov 15, 2003, 08:06 PM

Nascar is growing and apple should take notice.

TEG

Nov 16, 2003, 12:41 AM

As long as the car is a nice Monte Carlo or Grand Prix, I don't care who the driver is. But it is high time Apple pulled its collective heads out and realized that NASCAR is a great way to get brand recognition.

TEG

applemacdude

Nov 16, 2003, 12:41 AM

It's Mac Not MAC .....

coopdog

Nov 16, 2003, 12:49 AM

How many MAC users watch Nascar? I don't think its the right target audience.

However It would be cool to see an apple NASCAR. I might tune in more if there was one.

judith

Nov 16, 2003, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by coopdog
How many MAC users watch Nascar? I don't think its the right target audience.

Not nearly as important as how many NASCAR watchers could be using a Mac. However, you certainly help to make the point!

And it's NASCAR not Nascar.:D

BaghdadBob

Nov 16, 2003, 01:13 AM

Originally posted by coopdog
How many MAC users watch Nascar? I don't think its the right target audience.
That's exactly my point. The attitude displayed in quasilime's post is exactly what Apple needs to get away from. People need to understand that MACs are not just for metrosexuals. My whole point is that it's a largely untapped demographic. Believe me, if Apple spent $18 Mil advertising in Newsweek, Time, People, Entertainment Weekly, the NYT and Washington Post, it doesn't have nearly the potential impact that it could in the NASCAR demographic.

What those of you who are not up on this sport don't realize is that, actually, NASCAR's popularity is reaching new crowds all the time. It's not just a southern thing anymore, its demographic is changing and expanding wildly. There is a huge growing fan base in CA (what with the new speedway and all) and it's even starting to seed into NY.

NASCAR isn't the sport of Good 'ol Boys anymore -- there are nearly as many guys without drawls as with anymore. **** Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow PUSH coalition, his statements on the subject (hit Google on NASCAR and Rainbow PUSH if you don't know) were typically ignorant. However, as much as there is a wider audience -- a good thing -- the core demographic is one that it will be hugely fruitful to be on board with, especially now as the demographic continues to become more diversified.

Consider this: Jimmie Johnson and Jeff Gordon, two of the biggest drivers in the sport, both have apartments in NYC. Jeff Gordon just sold his $13Mil home in Florida... Kurt Busch is from Las Vegas. Matt Kenseth is from Wisconsin. Greg Biffle is from WA. Kevin Harvick is from CA. These people, like a sport team, get their shares of local support, and none of them are the southern demographic.

Anyway, blah blah blah ;)

My ideas are always good, don't argue!

PS, I think it should be a Dodge. It would look better with the paint scheme. Pontiac won't be in NASCAR next year -- they're bowing out, having no good teams now that Joe Gibbs went to Chevy.

BaghdadBob

Nov 16, 2003, 01:19 AM

Originally posted by Mullet_Haircut
LOL, class? Gordon? I think not. ;)
Some people prefer to call him snooty. Whichever :p

But all those poor dumb rednecks are so poor they're skimping on ketchup, so why bother to advertise premium auto finishes to them? Stupid DuPont. Someone should set them straight.

LethalWolfe

Nov 16, 2003, 01:34 AM

Speaking in generalities (which is what demograhics and marketing is all about) your typical NASCAR fan is not your typical Apple customer. When an Apple store opens up where is located? In a trendy/upper scale area, yes? Not exactly the same place a typical NASCAR fan would frequent.

If Apple was going to toss it's logo onto a racecar it would be F1, CART, or the IRL. Apple sells itself as an innovative company that is a leading force in design, technology and software in the computing world. This is about the exact opposite of the image NASCAR sells. Seriously, when you think of cutting edge tech and pushing boundries in the world of auto racing what comes to mind first? F1 or NASCAR?

Lethal

BaghdadBob

Nov 16, 2003, 01:45 AM

Right, and that's absolutely, precisely, exactly what Apple should be trying to change. They're out to sell stuff, why should they cut out a potential user base just because they haven't been a user base before?

Of COURSE Apple is opening it's stores in the upper-class urban areas right now, because that's their core user group. Can they get over that?

And, BTW, considering the face that Cup cars have weighted engine parts, they're pushing 850-900 HP @ 9500 RPM. That's in a V-8 that strongly resembles what's in a street car. That aint easy, and today's NASCAR is not your daddy's NASCAR, it's pretty damned sophisticated. Since Apple's core business is still consumer electronics, I think it's just fine and dandy.

Not to keep beating the DuPont drum but...they're a hell of a lot more technologically advanced than 99.9% of open-wheel sponsors.

[edit:] Just to clarify, I understand that IRL and F1 cars have a lot more technology in them, but that's by design. My defense is that Apple isn't making supercomputers (F1 Cars), they really mostly make consumer electronics (comparatively equivalent to cup cars).

judith

Nov 16, 2003, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by LethalWolfe

If Apple was going to toss it's logo onto a racecar it would be F1, CART, or the IRL. Apple sells itself as an innovative company that is a leading force in design, technology and software in the computing world. This is about the exact opposite of the image NASCAR sells. Seriously, when you think of cutting edge tech and pushing boundries in the world of auto racing what comes to mind first? F1 or NASCAR?

Lethal
This leads me to wonder if Apple is genuinely interested in marketing to arrogance exclusively, or if it's not an intrinsic quality of those who purchase their products. (generally)
So many comments from those who, to me it seems anyway, own a Mac because it's the best money can buy, if for no other reason. Such superiority complexes! (Not unlike the attitudes of most F1 drivers coincidentally.)
You're absolutley correct in the fact that stuck-up, "too good for your kind" attitudes won't appeal to the market though!

judith

Nov 16, 2003, 02:03 AM

..and also I'd like to argue that the G5 is every bit as effective as any "dick-pill" on the market today in bringing about the desired effect.;)

Phil Of Mac

Nov 16, 2003, 02:10 AM

NASCAR? Apple? I just don't see it. Apple is an upscale product. It's not arrogance, it's the nature of the product.

BaghdadBob

Nov 16, 2003, 02:16 AM

And NASCAR fans have money. Lots of them.

Listen people: IT'S A HUGE MARKET.

So Apple can be snooty and never advertise to southerners, or they can realize that there's money in the south too, and lots of them folk need them some of them thar computers, and NASCAR brand loyalty is considerable.

Look, if you don't follow the sport you don't understand. I do. It's not what it was twenty years ago, or ten years ago, or even five years ago.

It's going to be the freaking NEXTEL Cup next year. It was almost the Visa Cup.

It is NOT limited to the south, but irregardless of that, there's plenty of money down there. Believe it. Either take advantage, or ignore. Whichever.

LethalWolfe

Nov 16, 2003, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by judith
This leads me to wonder if Apple is genuinely interested in marketing to arrogance exclusively, or if it's not an intrinsic quality of those who purchase their products. (generally)
So many comments from those who, to me it seems anyway, own a Mac because it's the best money can buy, if for no other reason. Such superiority complexes! (Not unlike the attitudes of most F1 drivers coincidentally.)
You're absolutley correct in the fact that stuck-up, "too good for your kind" attitudes won't appeal to the market though!

NASCAR fans can be just as biased as F1 fans, or CART fans or American LeMans fans or IRL fans, etc.,.

Apple's goal is to sell Apple's products. Which come w/an Apple premium and are usually some of the best products in their classes. Apple, like any business, would love their market share to shoot thru the roof and become #1 but for that to happen the masses will have to come to Apple because Apple is not going to go to pander to the masses. Apple isn't going to cater to the $499 econo-box PC crowd anymore than Porsche is going to release a car to compete w/a Ford Focus. Different companies, different goals, different crowds.

How NASCAR markets NASCAR is not the way that Apple markets Apple. Just look at some of Apple's past marketing ventures. Gregory Hines <sp?> and Jeff Goldblum as spokes people. The entire "Think Different" ad campaign. That doesn't exactly mesh w/NASCAR (of any era). I could see Apple tagging Jeff Gordon for an iPod commerical or something, but, at least right now, I can't see them being a sponsor for a NASCAR team. F1 most likely, except their presence in the US isn't that strong so maybe CART or IRL.

NASCAR, as a brand, is not marketed to the same demographic that Apple, as a brand, is. Does that mean there is no cross over? Of course not. As I said before demographics and marketing deal w/generalites. And generally speaking your average NASCAR fan is not in the same demographic as your average Apple customer.

Personally, as long as Apple stays viable I don't care what their market share is. If Apple was as big as MS or Dell they couldn't be the Apple that we know. You can't spend time and money on R&D and innovation and still try and sell comptuers at cut throat rates (Dell). You can't have you OS be on 90% (95%?) of the computers out there and make the relatively large changes/additions to it on an annual basis (MS).

Lethal

Peyote

Nov 16, 2003, 03:00 AM

Nascar = driving around in circles. woohoo. Takes some serious technology to do that. If anything Apple should sponsor F1, GT, and WRC teams.

People keep repeating the mantra that the nascar market is this huge untapped market with limitless potential. Just because there are a lot of Nascar fans, doesn't mean that a greater percentage of them are likely to buy a Mac. In fact, my guess would be that a very low percentage of people typically interested in Nascar would be interested in buying a Mac. It's not about snobbiness. It's about spending money on marketing and what kind of results you get. The typical nascar fan drinks bud light or Busch beer....not an imported beer. They buy lots of t-shirts with race cars on them. They buy trucks, not VW's. Sponsoring a nascar team would be a waste of Apple's money. Not because Nascar fans don't buy, or don't have money, but because your typical nascar far has different interests than thse that apple markets to. It's not snobiness, it's recognizing in what markets your product sells well. For instance, do you think Apple should spend millions of dollars on advertising campaigns in Bridal magazines? Lots of people read those...big market there...they buy a lot of stuff...see my point? Another example...should Audi start marketing campaings in gaming magazines? Of course not...wrong market, waste of money.

Marketing isn't only about expanding your market to new areas, it's also about keeping your products known to the market you are strongest in. If Apple spends millions on Nascar, they will have less to spend in potentially more profitable markets.

By the way, I am a southerner, and it has nothing to do with marketing to the south. Apple markets to a certain demographic...people that appreciate a well built computer, which has nothing to do with wherer you live. I live in Texas and see Apple commercials on a daily basis.

InAppleHeaven

Nov 16, 2003, 04:12 AM

I don't want to get off on a rant here, but whoever started this thread has opened up a can of worms. I agree with your vision, but there are always going to be close minded people to give their opinion on something that they know nothing about. Mongo rides around the track in the cup series, and gets repeated advertising for sirius radio technology, so the concept is not far-fetched. However, I actually work with a NASCAR team as a mechanical engineer, so I believe I can give a rather knowledgable opinion on this topic. Besides an iPod being seen on occasion, I am the only person that I know of that uses a Mac product in the series which I work. The reason being is that winblows diagnostic programs are easy to obtain and has become a standard in racing technology. We use three laptops while at the track, one being my powerbook. In order to use the software, I must run virtual PC. But it is true to say that NASCAR is the most popular form of motorsports in the U.S. Cart is dead, IRL is on the brink of bankruptcy, and I bet not one of you can name two team owners in the F-1 series. If more technologically based companies are going to put forth the money to sponsor a team, they better damn well know how to grab attention, not only with the driver, but with their product. I say bring up Vickers from Busch, and run an Itunes sticker on the rear quarter panels, just to get started. Couple it with another tech company such as earthlink, then you may be on to something. Money talks in this sport. I would love to see Apple enter this advertising genre, but they would have to be ready for the consequences. If Dell decides to make an offer to Penske racing to sponsor Newman, then Apple would bite the big one. Strategy, strategy, strategy. Oh yeah, I'm from the South, and we drink Corona dammit!!!

pseudobrit

Nov 16, 2003, 08:45 AM

Okay, I took some heat for my viewpoints. I've reported the posts that were out of line. I did not make any personal attacks, let me point out, and I received two in response. (Don't be so touchy about your left-turn-athon, fer cryin' out loud!)

I follow motorsport. Ad revenue is dropping and it's becoming less effective, even in NASCAR.

While NASCAR is great for selling many products and services, please name one other computer manufacturer that sponsors an entire car in the series. HP advertises in F1, but they sell more than fancy computers.

Now, ask yourself, why would Apple buy ad space at high cost for a target demographic that is only in the US and concentrated in one geographic area, and is not their traditional target market? Also, why would they risk alienating part of that same market too? I know people who won't buy products from companies that sponsor drivers they don't like.

Apple would have better luck using that money on traditional advertising. NASCAR fans in my experience aren't the type to get hyped up about things like iPods. Apple knows this and that's why there won't be an Apple cup car.

pseudobrit

Nov 16, 2003, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by InAppleHeaven
I bet not one of you can name two team owners in the F-1 series.

Ron Dennis and Eddie Jordan, off the top of my head.

eyelikeart

Nov 16, 2003, 09:14 AM

There's been 3 reports on this thread so far, and u all know who u are who have been part of those reportings.

If u cannot talk like decent people here, it's getting closed down.

Roger1

Nov 16, 2003, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by judith
"The Microsoft 400" brought to you at Microsoft Motor Speedway by The Microsoft Corporation. Even sadder: the fact that I'd be willing to accept this, just so we could have NASCAR! How bad have you got it??

Yeah, but wouldn't it be fun to be there and watch all the monitors have a BSOD??:D

hugemullens

Nov 16, 2003, 11:22 PM

F1 is all about machine vs. machine. A minardi will never beat a ferrari, if thats your idea of racing, technology and speed, F1 and road racing is your thing. Nascar is about man versus another man (or women) to see who can use there car the best. I often compare nascar to golf, it all about how you can use your tools (car or clubs), its a basic thing ( go fast turn left, hit the ball in the hole), and its a skill virtually no one posses to truely compete on a world class level. Apple would sell more computers, more than enough to cover the money of sponsorship in the cup series. That being said i doubt we will see a apple car anytime soon. Apple knows they could sell more units this way, but they dont want the demographic. Its proven nascar fans are very loyal to brands, and i think apple would benifit from getting involved. I would like to see apple take a shot at it, maybe a title sponsor for a race. Its a massive market, just one apple foolishly (my opinion, don't flame please :) ) stays out of.

InAppleHeaven

Nov 16, 2003, 11:33 PM

Hugemullens, I agree with that. Sponsoring a race would be a good start. At least it would get Apple more attention.

kaosfere

Nov 17, 2003, 05:35 PM

NASCAR's demographic is getting broader. This can be seen by where drivers are coming from (e.g. California, Wisconsin, New England), where tracks are opening (Kansas, Las Vegas, Phoenix), and by the numbers

Anyone with basic cable can watch the entire NASCAR season. Most of it is viewable on broadcast television. It's the second biggest sport in the US today. This year's champion is from Wisconsin. Last years was from Indiana. The year before that? California (by way of Indiana). Of this year's top five, only one was born in "the South"; three were from California.

The sponsors show it, too. After thirty-three years, Winston has ended its title sponsorship; starting next year, the premier NASCAR series will be the NEXTEL Cup. The cars show it, too. Would a series that marketed only to "Bubbas" -- and, as a North Carolina boy who knows how to spell and has his full complement of teeth, I hate that stereotype, but that's neither here nor there -- have cars sponsored by NetZero, AOL, ALLTEL, Cingular, Sirius Sattelite Radio, NetZero, AOL, DuPont, UPS, Kodak, and so on?

The market is growing. You can act the cultural snob and turn your nose up at rednecks going left all you want, but you can't deny that it's there.

IndyGopher

Nov 17, 2003, 06:31 PM

I have lived in Indianapolis for about 30 years. We have a race here pretty much every month that it doesn't snow.. Indy 500, Brickyard 400, Grand Prix, NHRA Nationals, stock car racing every weekend at the SpeedRome, and frequent non-NHRA drag races at Raceway Park. I do not claim to be anyone's idea of an authority on any part of racing.. but I am pretty sure I have been bombarded with news stories about racing more than most people who do not seek it out.
The general perception, right or wrong, is that products plastered on NASCAR vehicles would usually be found in the aisles of your local Wal*Mart. I think that Apple slapping an ad on one of the NASCAR cars would do more damage to their image among their current market than would likely gain from the proposed new one.

Counterfit

Nov 17, 2003, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by pseudobrit
Ron Dennis and Eddie Jordan, off the top of my head. plus Frank Williams (Williams) (Sponsored by HP, and Budweiser...), Paul Stoddard (Minardi), Luca di Montezemolo (Ferrari, well, CEO, not owner) (Sponsored by Vodafone and AMD), Ford (Jaguar), Renault (they own themselves I guess), Toyota (same there, sponsored by Panasonic), Peter Sauber (Sauber), and David Richards (BAR).

Counterfit

Nov 17, 2003, 07:23 PM

Hey gopher, wanna score me some cheap tix for the '04 GP? :D

IndyGopher

Nov 17, 2003, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by Counterfit
Hey gopher, wanna score me some cheap tix for the '04 GP? :D
Um.. no. I can, however, get you some SUPER cheap tickets to the '03 GP.

coopdog

Nov 17, 2003, 08:57 PM

This is why nascar I mean NASCAR. Is bad for Apple, because this is there target audience. I don't mean that everyone watching NASCAR is a redneck or is racist like this NASCAR fan. This a Mr. Bergis prankcall, It sums up sadly what many people are like in middle America and the south. This thing is funny as hell! And it's edited for language so don't worry. And it's a total prank even the voice at the begining.

NASCAR prank call (http://media.ebaumsworld.com/index.php?e=mrbergis-nascar.mp3)

Macmaniac

Nov 17, 2003, 09:00 PM

If cars covered in political ads can work, then surely an Apple car could work.
I can see it now, the G5 the worlds fastest computer on NASCAR's fastest car;)

pseudobrit

Nov 17, 2003, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by Macmaniac
If cars covered in political ads can work, then surely an Apple car could work.
I can see it now, the G5 the worlds fastest computer on NASCAR's fastest car;)

The bad part is that it's just as likely to crash and burn and remind people of a PowerBook 5300.

hugemullens

Nov 17, 2003, 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Counterfit
plus Frank Williams (Williams) (Sponsored by HP, and Budweiser...), Paul Stoddard (Minardi), Luca di Montezemolo (Ferrari, well, CEO, not owner) (Sponsored by Vodafone and AMD), Ford (Jaguar), Renault (they own themselves I guess), Toyota (same there, sponsored by Panasonic), Peter Sauber (Sauber), and David Richards (BAR).

Don't forget Bernie, He now has a piece of the ever powerful minardi. Flavio "owns" renault, atleast he owned it when it was benneton and they hired him to be team boss again.

BaghdadBob

Nov 17, 2003, 10:28 PM

@ IndyGopher:

I could be wrong, but as far as the perception of NASCAR in the Indy area is concerned, I don't believe the bias in the area particularly favors NASCAR...you see what I'm getting at.

The Florida area probably thinks Indy drivers are a bunch of limp-wristed pretty boys who don't have nearly the talent of a real NASCAR contender. I'm in a pretty neutral area, so I see mostly the national media on the sport. It's a little different from that perspective, and that's the perspective that counts -- not the perspective of the heartland of open-wheel racing. No offense.

A good analogy would be, the Seattle Post-Intelligenceur (the NYT of the WA area) today gave a poor rating to iTMS for very stupid reasons. Regional bias? Nah.

LethalWolfe

Nov 17, 2003, 10:43 PM

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
@ IndyGopher:

I could be wrong, but as far as the perception of NASCAR in the Indy area is concerned, I don't believe the bias in the area particularly favors NASCAR...you see what I'm getting at.

The Florida area probably thinks Indy drivers are a bunch of limp-wristed pretty boys who don't have nearly the talent of a real NASCAR contender. I'm in a pretty neutral area, so I see mostly the national media on the sport. It's a little different from that perspective, and that's the perspective that counts -- not the perspective of the heartland of open-wheel racing. No offense.

A good analogy would be, the Seattle Post-Intelligenceur (the NYT of the WA area) today gave a poor rating to iTMS for very stupid reasons. Regional bias? Nah.

I'm in Indy too and when the Brickyard was first announced there was a lot of shock and "nothing but IndyCars should run at IMS" but that quickly faded away and the Brickyard is a huge event that Indy embraces (even F1 seems to be catching on more). The Brickyard keeps gaining popularity while the 500 keeps slipping. After the CART/IRL split in '96 it all went down hill for open-wheel racing in the US. 500 crowds, and TV ratings, keep falling and there just isn't the same city-stoping energy in the air that there was pre-split. Hell, I'd rather watch the Brickyard then the 500 and I really don't like NASCAR that much anymore.

Lethal

BaghdadBob

Nov 17, 2003, 11:06 PM

Yeah, I think there's some bitterness involved in the feeling towards NASCAR in the area, because it has substantially knocked open-whell racing off the pedestal nationwide. Good or bad, you have pointed out that it is fact. If the bitterest relegate NASCAR to the Blue-Light Special league...well, it's easier to stomach.

But sponsors are taking notice of the huge spotlight NASCAR has on it right now, which is why there is more and more and more technology advertised out there.

Apple taking advantage of the direction NASCAR is decidedly moving in is a case of better early than late. Taking advantage of the brand loyalty factor would be a lot easier to do by, say, picking up a great driver who lost their sponsor (like Jeff Burton, perhaps?) now-ish, rather than waiting for the entire transition to take effect and be late to the table.

@ pseudo: I promise not to call you names if you promis not to tattle on me. Chew on this: Ryan Newman, the driver with an engineering degree from Purdue, winner of a season-leading eight races this season and eleven poles (do you know what a pole is?), has gotten as good publicity for his sponsor from his spectacular crashes -- of which he has many -- as his success on the track. Those crashes put the AllTell logo on ESPN, SpeedNews, USA Today, and everyone who covers motorsports. Good crashes in NASCAR, unlike in leagues where spectacular crashes can be deadly, are great for the sponsor. Not that you'd know anything about that.

BaghdadBob

Nov 17, 2003, 11:12 PM

From the Democrat and Chronicle:

The changing face of NASCAR

New sponsors and a push for diversity give sport a new look

James Johnson
Staff Writer

(August 10, 2003) — WATKINS GLEN — The still-growing giant known as NASCAR is waving goodbye to its old world.

The auto racing sanctioning body has wandered away from sponsorship money from beer and cigarette companies for its premier stock car division during the last decade or so.

Now, it is the wallets belonging to corporations with more family-oriented products that get the attention of NASCAR. Goodbye Winston, a brand of the R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company, hello Nextel Communications Inc. and a 10-year, $750 million sponsorship deal expected to pay even larger dividends.

By January, the peeling away of Winston from the series will be complete.

The signs of change and cash-producing popularity seem to be all over the place:

A fan base of about 75 million, according to NASCAR officials, 40 percent of whom are female. About 2 million African Americans have become fans since 1995. The Hispanic Racing Team of NASCAR’s Busch Series estimates there are 6.4 million Hispanic fans.

Television ratings that take a backseat only to the National Football League among sportscasts. Team owners must find talented drivers, no matter where they are from in a highly competitive series.

“ It doesn’t matter today in NASCAR where you’re from,” said Winston Cup driver Jimmy Spencer, who used to race modified at Spencer Speedway in Williamson. “ It used to mean something. Today it’s a nationwide sport.”

Superstar and four-time series champion Jeff Gordon began to make his mark in the Midwest.

Even “ The King,” Richard Petty, a self-described good ole’ boy from North Carolina, has Christian Fittipaldi, a driver born in Brazil, on his team’s payroll.

Fittipaldi, 33, is a former champion of the Championship Auto Racing Team open-wheel series and raced on the worldwide-popular Formula One racing circuit. Today he is driving a Dodge sponsored primarily by the New York Yankees.

“ I was really surprised to see just how big everything is here in NASCAR,” Fittipaldi said. “ In other forms of racing you don’t see the tie-ins like you see here, the T-shirts, the hats, everything that fans can get to cheer for their favorite driver.

“ These are things you don’t see in the other sports.”

NASCAR does trail other sports in some areas.

“ When you look at the top three series one thing is very obvious, the lack of diversity,” said Tinsley Hughes, an African American who occasionally has entered cars in Winston Cup races since 1989.

That includes drivers, the most visible members of racing teams.

Fittipaldi is the only minority who competes full time in the Winston Cup series.

Tina Gordon is the only woman driving full time in NASCAR’s top three divisions, while Bill Lester is the only African American behind the wheel in any of those series.

Gordon and Lester, who will become the first African American driver in NASCAR featured on a cereal box, are in the Craftsman Truck Series.

“ When I look into the stands I see some real diversity,” said Lester.

“ I think that is a good thing. My first priority is go out there and be a race car driver and to win.

“ At the same time, if people gravitate to what it is that I am doing and realize that if I can do it, they can do it, then I’m happy to be in the position that I’m in.”

Lester’s truck ride through Bobby Hamilton Racing is partly a product of Dodge’s Diversity Program. Hughes, who lives in the NASCAR hotbed of Charlotte, N.C., has formed a motorsports academy to develop drivers and crew members.

NASCAR, which has a diversity affairs department, has taken steps to boost minority participation in its top divisions.

Among the more public actions taken by the organizations is the recruiting of potential racing officials, team members and owners, plus the controversial contribution of funds to Jesse Jackson’s Rainbow/PUSH Coalition.

“ We think our sport should be followed by everybody, regardless of ethnic background or race,” NASCAR’s director of brand marketing, Roger VanDerSnick, told the Atlanta Journal Constitution.

Imagine the growth of NASCAR, if that happens.

http://www.democratandchronicle.com/sports/general/0810IO1FGS7_nascar10_general.shtml

Hey, Apple, make sure you are the last corporate sponsor to realize what happenned to this hick sport.

pseudobrit

Nov 17, 2003, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
@ pseudo: I promise not to call you names if you promis not to tattle on me.

WTF is your problem? If you don't insult me personally, I can't report you. No promises needed. But now you proceed to continue to egg me on:

(do you know what a pole is?) ... Not that you'd know anything about that.

I follow motorsports and the automotive industry closely and know a great deal about them, I was in the industry for years.

I have enjoyed them for years. NASCAR is one series I don't follow as closely as WRC and F1.

Just because I don't agree with you that Apple would be wise to advertise in your preferred racing series I'm atuomatically an idiot who knows nothing about racing? Actually, I think Apple advertising in any series would be a mistake.

I thought this was put to rest by eye, but you can't seem to let it go. Grow up, please. Who's being an ass here, really?

BaghdadBob

Nov 17, 2003, 11:17 PM

Just an exerpt and a link for this one.

Emphasis added.

The faces at the races are changing

They are 75 million strong.

About 60 percent are men, 40 percent women.

Nearly 60 percent are 44 years old or younger.

And, perhaps most telling, 42 percent of them earn $50,000 or more a year.

They are the fans of NASCAR.

They are the foundation on which drivers, car owners, sponsors, TV networks and NASCAR itself rest their financial footing.

Without fans willing to buy the tickets, buy driver merchandise, rent hotel rooms and buy sponsors' products, there would be no 150,000-seat tracks, no expensive motor coaches for the drivers and car owners and no $2.4 billion TV deals.

...

http://www.thatsracin.com/mld/thatsracin/sports/special_packages/money/6673107.htm

This is a long article. If you're interested in being informed, read. If not, save the yokel crap for someone who doesn't know what they're talking about -- this doesn't apply to everyone, some people have made more honest analysies...

hugemullens

Nov 17, 2003, 11:18 PM

Of note dodge dropped the diveristy plan and bobby hamilton racing dropped bill lester for the 2004 season. no real reason for me pointing it out, but since it was in the article i thought i would mention it.

BaghdadBob

Nov 17, 2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by pseudobrit
I thought this was put to rest by eye, but you can't seem to let it go. Grow up, please. Who's being an ass here, really?
pseudo, if there's a gay thread going on somewhere, and they're talking about the Gay Olympics (or whatever it's called) I don't jump into the thread and call the Gay Olympic fans a bunch of limp-wristed pansies who run like girls and can't throw a football ten yards.

If that's how I felt, I probalby never would have entered the thread. That would constitute being an ass.

If you have no interest in this subject except to dis the entire sport and its fans, then why troll the thread?

judith

Nov 17, 2003, 11:23 PM

Originally posted by pseudobrit
WTF is your problem?

I thought this was put to rest by eye, but you can't seem to let it go. Grow up, please. Who's being an ass here, really?

C'mon guys. At least you got your posts deleted! I'm stuck with a post quoting the term "dick-pills" which people might assume was mine!
;)

Insults flew, people were offended by them, probably still are....

It's all kind-of a what-if (or wishful thinking if you prefer) topic anyway.

BaghdadBob

Nov 17, 2003, 11:26 PM

Originally posted by hugemullens
Of note dodge dropped the diveristy plan and bobby hamilton racing dropped bill lester for the 2004 season. no real reason for me pointing it out, but since it was in the article i thought i would mention it.
Yeah, racing is one of those sports it's hard to just "break into."

Almost everyone in racing has a parent who are either ex-racers or mechanics. That's how you get started. I can hardly blame NASCAR for the fact that there aren't a large number of minority racers out there with the level of success it takes to get into NASCAR..it's been a generation-to-generation white guy sport for a long, long time.

Also of not, Christian Fittipaldi has demonstrated a remarkable lack of ability to wrestle a cup car around a track without crashing it. Most talented drivers indeed ;)

pseudobrit

Nov 17, 2003, 11:27 PM

Advertising in racing costs a lot of money but gets you lots of exposure.

This is effective if you have a product or brand that will appeal to a large enough percentage of the public to justify the expense.

There are two ways to get there:

- Have an affordable, often-purchased product (say, beer or cigarettes) or brand to peddle. Enough people will try and buy your stuff now because it's not hitting their wallet too hard.

- Have an expensive, less-purchased high-profit product or brand that sits in what is generally an uncompetitive niche market (say automotive paints or Viagra). Your advertising pushes enough new customers your way because of brand recognition.

Apple simply does not have enough appeal to the general public to justify the large cost of advertising in motorsport. This isn't about NASCAR not being widespread so much as it is about Apple not having a brand that appeals to the public at large. It's a niche market. Apple's better off using that money for traditional advertising methods aimed more solidly at people who are likely to buy. It's all about effectiveness.

pseudobrit

Nov 17, 2003, 11:31 PM

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
pseudo, if there's a gay thread going on somewhere, and they're talking about the Gay Olympics (or whatever it's called) I don't jump into the thread and call the Gay Olympic fans a bunch of limp-wristed pansies who run like girls and can't throw a football ten yards.

I did not insult NASCAR's drivers or its fans.

If you have no interest in this subject except to dis the entire sport and its fans, then why troll the thread?

I've already stated why I disagree with your idea quite thoroughly and eloquently without resorting to namecalling and insults. You're the one who refuses engage in civil discourse.

pseudobrit

Nov 17, 2003, 11:39 PM

Originally posted by judith
I'm stuck with a post quoting the term "dick-pills" which people might assume was mine!
;)

I can't think of another slang term for Viagra quite so poignant as that one. ;)

BaghdadBob

Nov 17, 2003, 11:46 PM

Pseudo, just because your post was removed doesn't mean it didn't happen.

If you want to move on from that then fine.

As far as your previous post goes, Apple is becoming less and less a niche brand and more one that is widely accessible...at least for computer users, thanks to the iPod and iTMS. Sirius made the investment the last couple of years to be a hood sponsor, and their deal aint that much cheaper than an iPod. Beyond those things, their core computer-sales business will still benefit from NASCAR fans with money (of which there are over 30 million) realising that Apple isn't too good for their kind, especially if they are clearly making a significant investment in the team.

Still, considering the iPod is one of the most profitable products Apple has right now, having an iPod centric hood in a racing league becoming more and more "hip"...drivers appearing in music videos, musical celebrities playing at almost every race, the top drivers listening to very hip music...it's a good market for the iPod.

What that money in advertising doesn't do is give a tangible feeling of success that being a cup car hood sponsor can. And nobody says "I'm so glad Apple sponsors my favorite channel/magazine!"

In the short term it may not be as good an investment, but over the years, being a consistent sponsor pays huge dividends in this sport.

LethalWolfe

Nov 18, 2003, 12:24 AM

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Yeah, I think there's some bitterness involved in the feeling towards NASCAR in the area, because it has substantially knocked open-whell racing off the pedestal nationwide. Good or bad, you have pointed out that it is fact. If the bitterest relegate NASCAR to the Blue-Light Special league...well, it's easier to stomach

Errr... did you read the same thing I posted? ;)

Bitterness? When did I mention bitterness? Pointed it out as fact? WTF are you talking about? I said, there was some shock/surprise at first but, but that quickly faded. Indy is a huge race town (KARTS to F1 and everything in between) and the Brickyard has always been a huge draw. People love having another huge race weekend. NASCAR is seen as an additional race at the Brickyard, not as competiton to the 500. You are trying to pick a fight where there is none. If there is any race related bitterness it's between the IRL and CART. IMO the Split knocked open wheel racing off the map more than NASCAR did. People don't blame NASCAR for open wheels decline they either blame CART or the IRL (depending on if you are talking to a CART fan or an IRL fan of course ;).

Lethal