apple's are CHEAPER than dell's!!

[kuyu]

Check out these comparable systems and the student price after taxes.

14.1 iBook: 933 G4, 256 ddr266, 40 GB, combo drive, extreme, ati 32ddr, app, bluetooth.
AFTER TAX: $1606.96

14.1 Dell inspiron 600m: 1.4 pentium M, 256 ddr266, 40 GB, combo drive, 802.11g, ati 32ddr, 3 year warranty and 3 year tech support, bluetooth.
AFTER TAX: $2069.12

This is amazing. There's almost a $500 difference. For the price of the Dell you could get a powerbook! And I thought Dell was the "bargain PC specialist".

[joeyjojoe]

if you're looking for a bargain pc, you shouldn't be looking for a 1.4M. second, you forgot to tack on the apple warranty. third, you're comparing a 1.4M PC to a 933 G4 (which isn't too realistic in my opinion).

that being said, yes apple is quite comparable to other laptop manufacturers.

[kuyu]

the app stands for AppleCare Protection Plan. I did include the warranty. I read somewhere, maybe cnet, that the pentium M was fairly similar to the G4 in power usage, but the G4 still had a more productive cycle, so you could compare the two. The pentium is probably a little faster though. Also, I included dell's versions of iLife apps, just to be fair. These systems have a similar software package, similar warranties, similar battery life, and similar hardware. The main difference is the price.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by joeyjojoe
if you're looking for a bargain pc, you shouldn't be looking for a 1.4M. second, you forgot to tack on the apple warranty. third, you're comparing a 1.4M PC to a 933 G4 (which isn't too realistic in my opinion).

that being said, yes apple is quite comparable to other laptop manufacturers.

No, he didn't forget the warranty. "APP" stands for AppleCare Protection Plan - 3 year warranty just like Dell's.

I think those processors are about as close as you're going to get. What would you use instead (model, MHz)?

[QCassidy352]

that looks like a good comparison, except that I think the 1.4 ghz M will be a lot faster. Rower, it might be the best comparison out there, but the G4 won't keep up, IMHO.

btw, what graphics card is that on the dell?

[kuyu]

dells website just says ATI 32MB, so i'm not to sure what type of graphics card is in it. It's likely very similar to the mobile 9200 in the iBook.

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
that looks like a good comparison, except that I think the 1.4 ghz M will be a lot faster. Rower, it might be the best comparison out there, but the G4 won't keep up, IMHO.

...

Like I asked before, what is a "fair" comparison to you?

[MetallicPenguin]

I don't feel like typing out all the specifications, but I put together a 15" Powerbook with a Precision M60; and the Powerbook was $10 less. I know the Dell had a 1.6GHz processor and an equally sized hard drive; I made everything else as equal as possible too.

Although, I think the graphics card in the Dell might have been better by a tiny bit.

[joeyjojoe]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
No, he didn't forget the warranty. "APP" stands for AppleCare Protection Plan - 3 year warranty just like Dell's.

I think those processors are about as close as you're going to get. What would you use instead (model, MHz)?

oh sorry, i thought "app" was referring to the apps that come standard in OSX, but your reasoning makes much more sense.

i would say a centrino would be more along the lines of a g4. don't get me wrong, my laptop is great and all, but its no speed demon (not that i need one). i've seen a 1.4M in action and it feels much snappier. my point is: Yes Apple laptops are similar in price and performance to what is on the market now. i think its one reason you see so many switchers (like me) getting powerbooks and not desktops (since the PC is still king there).

[Rezet]

Originally posted by kuyu
the app stands for AppleCare Protection Plan. I did include the warranty. I read somewhere, maybe cnet, that the pentium M was fairly similar to the G4 in power usage, but the G4 still had a more productive cycle, so you could compare the two. The pentium is probably a little faster though. Also, I included dell's versions of iLife apps, just to be fair. These systems have a similar software package, similar warranties, similar battery life, and similar hardware. The main difference is the price.


Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but 1.4Ghz Centrino will rape the crap out of ur ibook in pretty much any test.
Powerwise, 1.4 will probably be about 2x faster than 933 g4 ibook. Second, battery will still last longer than ibook's.
Besides, look at other specs like memory and fsb.
And lastly I was just able to build a centrino 1.6 for 1999....

Cheers.

[yamabushi]

These kind of comparisons are really pointless. You could find a reason to argue the point either way if you tried hard enough. Besides, these are not items that you can simply exchange and expect to use them in the same way.

[Fahd]

Processor wise I would compare a celeron or a P3 with the G4.

If I get time, I'll pull out a 256 MB RAM chip from my notebook and benchmark my PB and NoteBook. (See sig) I would say that would be a more reasonable comparison.

As a sidenote, my PB (w/panther) boots up a lot faster than my notebook (w/xp pro). But overall I feel my NoteBook is faster than the PB.

A new notebook with the same same specs as mine would probably cost only about $699-$899 now. (I bought it for $1299 all inclusive in Feb 2002.)

All in all, I would say apple is still a lot more expensive.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by Rezet
Sorry to burst your bubble bro, but 1.4Ghz Centrino will rape the crap out of ur ibook in pretty much any test.
Powerwise, 1.4 will probably be about 2x faster than 933 g4 ibook. Second, battery will still last longer than ibook's.
Besides, look at other specs like memory and fsb.

2x faster on what, exactly? I rather think not.

How long does the centrino battery last? The 14" ibook gets excellent battery life... 4+ hours with lots of use, easily.

"other specs like memory and fsb" are already taken in to account when you say that the centrino is 2x faster, no?

[Fahd]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
How long does the centrino battery last? The 14" ibook gets excellent battery life... 4+ hours with lots of use, easily.

I've seen laptops based on centrino that last for 7 hours. Sony claims that one of theirs lasts up to 13 hours. I havent tested any of these myself.

On my PB 12" the best I've gotten so far is a whopping 5 and a half hours, which is great. I couldnt be happier.

[Wyrm]

I think the important lesson to take away for anyone debating between an PC-x86 and an Apple is that these products are in the same ball-park, almost <gasp> comparible, whereas historically Apple has commanded a massive premium for their products.

-Wyrm

[King Cobra]

Has anyone ever thought about comparing personal preference effeciency?

Graphics artist: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically graphics work? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for doing graphics?

Gamer: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically playing games? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for game play?

Watching movies: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically watching DVDs? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for movie play?

In terms of a Mac vs. PC world, the word "Compare" doesn't cut it anymore. If someone were to ask how a computer from Apple "compares" with a computer from Dell, the question leaves open a vast variety of correct answers. I think that such general usage of the word "compare" is unacceptable, because you will get right answers from both sides, but not direct enough answers. What is the purpose, what components need to be considered, and how do they affect the performance of the intended task[s]? That's "comparing".

[Fahd]

Originally posted by King Cobra
Has anyone ever thought about comparing personal preference effeciency?

Graphics artist: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically graphics work? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for doing graphics?

Gamer: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically playing games? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for game play?

Watching movies: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically watching DVDs? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for movie play?

In terms of a Mac vs. PC world, the word "Compare" doesn't cut it anymore. If someone were to ask how a computer from Apple "compares" with a computer from Dell, the question leaves open a vast
variety of correct answers. I think that such general usage of the word "compare" is unacceptable, because you will get right answers from both sides, but not direct enough answers. What is the purpose, what components need to be considered, and how do they affect the performance of the intended task[s]? That's "comparing".

Good post! I believe most people overlook this.

I have seen professionals in the video business not even look at PCs, for them Mac + Final Cut Pro is God.

[G5orbust]

Originally posted by kuyu
dells website just says ATI 32MB, so i'm not to sure what type of graphics card is in it. It's likely very similar to the mobile 9200 in the iBook.

Some how I think that it is ATI's Radeon Shared Memory Architechture, which is essentially like the Intel Extreme found in other laptops.

If not, it should be around a Radeon Mobility 7500 which, if it is, is crap and a half compared with the iBook's Radeon Mobility 9200.

Also, I disagree with the point that a 1.4GHz could kill a 933MHz G4. The chip would definitely win, but Im not really sure how large the margin would be. Plus, we're talking iBooks against Intel's flagship mobile chip. Maybe if we pitted the powerbook's G4 (which, to my understanding, is quite a bit more upgraded than the one in the ibook) the margin would be even smaller. The 933 G4 is slick as all hell and, in my opinion, is the clocking sweetspot of the line. i happen to own a 933MHz G4 (quicksilver) that, with a large RAM cache, really really does run great. Im sure that the 2MB of L3 cache is doing its part too, but nevertheless the chip is fine and would fair quite well against the 500MHz faster Centrino chip.

[illumin8]

Originally posted by kuyu
This is amazing. There's almost a $500 difference. For the price of the Dell you could get a powerbook! And I thought Dell was the "bargain PC specialist".
Everyone that makes these Dell comparisons never bothers to take a real Dell price. Dell is not like Apple and doesn't sell for the same price to everyone. If you just go to their site and "build your own PC" you'll get ripped off. You have to look for coupons and specials. These coupons and special deals change every couple of days, but there are always some of them around. Try this one out for a better comparison:

DellHome - Inspiron 1100 Laptop with 2.3Ghz Celeron, 14.1" TFT, 256MB DDR SDRAM, 20GB HD, DVD-Rom for $674 after Rebate with FREE Shipping!

Or this one:

DellSB - DellSB - Latitude D500 laptop with Pentium M Processor 1.30GHz, 14.1 XGA, 128MB DDR RAM, 24x Mini CD-ROM, 30GB HD for $999 After Rebate w/ Free Shipping!

If anybody actually wants these deals, you should check out Got Apex (http://www.gotapex.com) which is a pretty good deals site. Of course they make money by referrals from their Dell sales, but if you want to buy a PC it's probably a good idea to check there first. That way you won't get bent over by Michael Dell and Bill Gates.

[Rezet]

Originally posted by King Cobra
Has anyone ever thought about comparing personal preference effeciency?

Graphics artist: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically graphics work? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for doing graphics?

Gamer: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically playing games? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for game play?

Watching movies: Which of the two models will be more effecient for specifically watching DVDs? For each model, what are the most important specs to consider, and in each model how productive are they for movie play?

In terms of a Mac vs. PC world, the word "Compare" doesn't cut it anymore. If someone were to ask how a computer from Apple "compares" with a computer from Dell, the question leaves open a vast variety of correct answers. I think that such general usage of the word "compare" is unacceptable, because you will get right answers from both sides, but not direct enough answers. What is the purpose, what components need to be considered, and how do they affect the performance of the intended task[s]? That's "comparing".


True. That's because hardware is already an overkill on PCs or Macs for average users. Software is still lagging behind though.
I think we all have seen GT3 grapchics on 299mhz PS2 processor...
They can make it well, if they want...
But in most cases, they don't... Fkin Half life 2 wants 128mbs of video memory on PCs....

[Horrortaxi]

Originally posted by joeyjojoe
i would say a centrino would be more along the lines of a g4.

Centrino is not a processor. Centrino is a collection of hardware bundled together. It is strictly a marketing thing. The processor in a Centrino system is the Pentium M.

[caveman_uk]

Check out the price of this bargain Inspiron :rolleyes:

link (http://www1.euro.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx?c=uk&id=notebooks&l=en&s=dhs)

[spinner]

Originally posted by Fahd
I've seen laptops based on centrino that last for 7 hours. Sony claims that one of theirs lasts up to 13 hours. I havent tested any of these myself.

On my PB 12" the best I've gotten so far is a whopping 5 and a half hours, which is great. I couldnt be happier.

I think that centrino based systems get about 4-5 hours with one battery and 7+ with two batteries. That's what it was when I worked at Gateway when they first came out with Centrino. I could be wrong though I have been out of the loop for a while, I quit Gateway at the beginning of the year

[Wyrm]

Actually that brings up a design difference between the old style Powerbooks and the metal ones.

On the old powerbook (Pismo for example), you could slap in a second battery, (removing the DVD/CD drive). If you had 3 batteries, you could keep working while changing one (instead of the mad-sleep-dash-battery-swap), or you could put back the optical drive if you need it (assuming you are carrying all this stuff around). You could also recharge 2 batteries at a time!

Since the metal books you can't take out the optical drive, and you can't put in a second battery. You'd also need another powerbook of the same form to recharge 2 batteries at a time. (Does Apple have a battery charger? Never seen one... even a 3rd party one)

With the new metal series, I admit they are much lighter, but in terms of flexibility I thought Apple was taking a step backwards..
when you are mobile, weight counts (but that justs eases aching muscles), but battery life is life. I don't know about the rest of you, but I could do without the optical drive when mobile (it's unix after all, you can just rip an iso to your harddisk and then mount it - who needs an optical drive always installed?) - and could use a second battery. I admit my current Powerbook gets better battery life than a single battery on my old one, but the Pismo can run at least 5 hours on 2 batteries even after 3+ years.

So if they somehow changed the design that allowed you to swap the optical drive for a battery the current powerbooks might be in the 6-8 hour range.

Apple could make a super battery, that is the form factor of the laptop... plus the original battery - fits in underneath and adds what, another inch? If battery life were linear, it would be like having 4-5 batteries (probably cost a fortune), but you get 12-15 hours maybe... ho ho ho.

Other than that I guess we have to wait for Fuel Cells...

-Wyrm

[kuyu]

glad to see all the discussion. As stated, I'm a college student and price is of utmost importance. While any pentium chip will smoke a powerpc chip, I've realized that there is no point to all that extra power. I am going buy an ibook as soon as I get the funds together.

[ZildjianKX]

Jeez, that 1.4 GHz Pentium-M would not just crush a iBook, it would crush the top of the line powerbook too... no reason for anyone to get upset, but its true... and the battery will last about twice as long while it does the crushing :)

[Wyrm]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
Jeez, that 1.4 GHz Pentium-M would not just crush a iBook, it would crush the top of the line powerbook too... no reason for anyone to get upset, but its true... and the battery will last about twice as long while it does the crushing :)

Yeah - theoretical processing speed is not one of the strong points of the Powerbooks. Practical use, however, is.

The overall package is also just MUCH more elegant. :D

-Wyrm

[Stojamow]

Originally posted by kuyu
Check out these comparable systems and the student price after taxes.

14.1 iBook: 933 G4, 256 ddr266, 40 GB, combo drive, extreme, ati 32ddr, app, bluetooth.
AFTER TAX: $1606.96

14.1 Dell inspiron 600m: 1.4 pentium M, 256 ddr266, 40 GB, combo drive, 802.11g, ati 32ddr, 3 year warranty and 3 year tech support, bluetooth.
AFTER TAX: $2069.12

This is amazing. There's almost a $500 difference. For the price of the Dell you could get a powerbook! And I thought Dell was the "bargain PC specialist".

No news here :D


This is one of the reasons I finally bought Powerbook. If you buy an Avid qualified Dell you have to put down about 50% more money and this has been going on 6 months already (when looking for full price comparison only)- as far as I know...

+In some point you want to buy a desktop anyway so there is no point to waste any more money for laptop while eiditing as necessary

So, all video professionals spending time on the road should go for Mac then ;)

[ITR 81]

I compared my friends Dell and my PB. My PB has 1GHz with 512meg of ram, the Dell had the same ram but has 2GHz processor. He paid just over $2,600. I paid just over 3k for my PB. When we compared them he and I both noticed the PB starts up and shutdown faster. The UI is faster on the PB and similar apps like Office started up faster on the PB then his Dell. He was pissed by the fact he paid so much money for faster processor to find it was slower then PB. He told me he would've got a PB but he thought the Dell would be faster and it wasn't. Maybe it is in some apps but from just using it he said my PB is faster..and this was before Panther. So now it's even faster and I haven't even added ram to it yet.

I hate Dells because folks tend to have too many issues with them. I would rather go with IBM if I had to pick a PC laptop. As for battery performance my PB lasts just over 4hrs with modem and a USB mouse running on it. My friends Dell only ran 3 hrs doing the samething. In the mil we used Pansonic Toughbooks and didn't use any extra except LP and it only lasted 3hrs if that! The only Sony's I've seen last a long time was smaller sub-notbooks.

[dieselg4]

Originally posted by kuyu
glad to see all the discussion. As stated, I'm a college student and price is of utmost importance. While any pentium chip will smoke a powerpc chip, I've realized that there is no point to all that extra power. I am going buy an ibook as soon as I get the funds together.

Any pentium chip? Surely not a Pentium MMX 233.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by dieselg4
Any pentium chip? Surely not a Pentium MMX 233.

Nah, I think he was referring to the Pentium 60. Yes and that's 5-volts at the proc.

[tomf87]

Originally posted by ITR 81
I compared my friends Dell and my PB. My PB has 1GHz with 512meg of ram, the Dell had the same ram but has 2GHz processor. He paid just over $2,600. I paid just over 3k for my PB. When we compared them he and I both noticed the PB starts up and shutdown faster. The UI is faster on the PB and similar apps like Office started up faster on the PB then his Dell. He was pissed by the fact he paid so much money for faster processor to find it was slower then PB. He told me he would've got a PB but he thought the Dell would be faster and it wasn't. Maybe it is in some apps but from just using it he said my PB is faster..and this was before Panther. So now it's even faster and I haven't even added ram to it yet.

I hate Dells because folks tend to have too many issues with them. I would rather go with IBM if I had to pick a PC laptop. As for battery performance my PB lasts just over 4hrs with modem and a USB mouse running on it. My friends Dell only ran 3 hrs doing the samething. In the mil we used Pansonic Toughbooks and didn't use any extra except LP and it only lasted 3hrs if that! The only Sony's I've seen last a long time was smaller sub-notbooks.

Did your friend reload his Dell with just the OS? I was curious because all of the PC laptops I've ever seen run like junk out of the gate, because of the OEM apps. I always blow it all away before I even think about using it in production.

[joeconvert]

Hey all.....

I use a Toshiba Tecra 9100 P4 M 1.8 Ghz with 512MB of RAM. This is my work machine. We have several differnt flavors of P4 Ms around the office. Here is what I genrally notice....

As a precursor to what I am about to say let me get the following item in the open:

- 2 Years ago I referred to a copy of MacWorld laying around as ChumpWorld
- While I have never been a Windows fan, I have been a vocal supporter of Linux/Unix on x86 for quite some time.
- About 8 months ago I educated myself on Power PC architecture and the Mac line in general and purchased a desktop. I am know looking at acquiring a PB in the next year.

In general P4s have absolutely worthless battery life. I assume that those praising the battery life of Intel based products have not had real experience with them in the field. They can last,b ut only have the vaunted processors are turned down so much with SpeedStep that my old P 233 could smoke it. I know from experience with cutting edge Toshiba and Dells. Don't even make me laugh about the Centrino package. Centrino is in my opinion the biggest joke Intel ever forced upon the computing public. The chipsets are buggy and leave much to be desired in terms of performance.

Wireless is great to have integrated into laptops, but Centrino, at least for now, is not the answer. The range is inferior to standard PC cards as well as the interoperability with existing systems. Let's not forget the lack of a G option.

I would also like to point out to some of the posters that there is NO relibale, and feature rich UNIX based option for laptops. Good luck with Linux. The support for laptops is laughable. Mac OS X remains the ONLY Unix based OS that fully supports mobile hardware, provides for ease of use by the end user and supports popular productivity and business applications. Not to mention one of the most stable computing platforms available to the general public.

Intel has had an impressive run, but 64-bit computing will be a major challenge for them. Time will tell how badly they bet wrong, but right now it looks like AMD will successfully gain inroads in the high end PC world. This will eventually trickle down to the laptop space.