Parking For Women with Children ...

[Kwyjibo]

Ok this makes me really pissed, these are the same thoughts that appear on my website I just copied and pasted them here, if you can't tell i think this is wrong and bullcrap

OUTRAGE!

Well I came home from school and now I'm quite outraged at a local sign in the Best Buy parking lot of my town. In a large parking lot the sign reserves nine of the closes non-handicap spaces for "Women with Children". The sign is pictured below and I have several problems with the presentation and execution of this program presumably by Best Buy Corporation.

1. The sign does not say Family Parking or Parking for persons with children. The sign clearly says Women which completely excludes men who may have children.

2. Why do people who choose to have children get special rights such as upfront parking? I agree that those who are handicapped and not physically able to reach the door in an efficient manner should be given priority but their disability is beyond their control. Having children, however, is a choice.

3. This is discrimation agaisnt those without children, they might as well give people without children a different spot on the Bus. I'm not saying a boycott of Best Buy is in order, but maybe it is, who buys Huge TV's, top of the line computers, insane stereos and excessive amounts of video games. MEN. MOSTLY LIKE THOSE WITHOUT CHILDREN!

4. Since this is one of my first times as a caucasian male to be discriminated against I have to complain; its my right!

http://www.smelkem.com/images/bb.jpg

[tazo]

Because ya have to remember kwyjibo, that in this backwards world, equal rights for women means more rights and discrimination towards men....

nothing like discrimination to solve it eh?

[eyelikeart]

Eh, I think this is too literal of an argument. Sure, it says "Parking for Women With Children," but I don't think they're gonna crucify u for parking there if u are male & have a child or two with u. I'm inclined it's backed by the same belief that men go out & work while women are home with the kids.

I also support such a move, here's why:

How many times have u driven thru a parking lot only to see someone's small child run into the middle of the lane or come out of nowhere from between cars? I think, if anything, this is an attempt to bring children physically closer to the entrance of the store, thus making them however less likely to get injured.

Flame on. ;)

[rainman::|:|]

no tazo, once again when rights are involved, you try to kill a fly with a sledgehammer. using blanket statements like the winner above doesn't really say anything about the situation, but it's a fantastic way to keep complaining about how *sob* you are discriminated against. equal rights, this is NOT, so save your "equal rights = discrimination" crap.

anyway, to the subject at hand. the idea is nice, and it's caught on remarkably fast nationwide, but clearly they didn't think this one through. as was pointed out, it discriminates against men with children, akin to saying that women can't manage to walk across a parking lot whereas men can. beyond that, it's a trife annoying personally, because those damn kids are just going to yell and scream in the store anyway...

so yeah, i wish they'd change it to "people with children" or better "people with young children". i think we can all agree that parking lots can be hazardous places for children, you've got people driving around *way* too fast, and kids aren't always good at staying where you want them. so the idea is nice, like i said. the most important point here is that this is not a law, and i don't know of any place in the US that it has become legally binding. so, i really can't see taking issue with the existance of these signs, just the wording. which is pretty easily changed, should people complain about it... and this is not a best buy thing, there must be an organization that issues these signs... maybe those online petitions aren't so useless after all?

pnw

[Stelliform]

I agree with you on the women bit certainly.

And I think the sign should say "Cars with just one guardian with multiple children under 5." I know I have longed for such signs after they started having senior citizen parking.

However, no store, especially best buy does things without having a good $$$ reason. And have you ever tried to wrestle kids out of a car to go to a store? It is a pain in the ass. Especially if you have to walk through a busy parking lot.

We went to eat at a restaurant the other day and we had to park a good way away from the door. My 2 year old didn't want me to carry him, he also didn't want to hold my hand. (Not an option in my house.) So to protest he would drop to the ground in the parking lot on his knees and try to get his hand out of mine. So I picked him up by his hand and carried him through the lot like that. (Don't worry folks, I wasn't hurting him, I kept putting him down to see if he would walk and he kept fighting me.)

So if I had my two boys with me, and my choice was Circuit City with no family parking and Best buy with family parking, I might pick best buy. (Except I hate that store and wouldn't shop their even if the alternatives meant I had to walk on burning coals to get into them. :))

But I also agree with you that nine spots is obscene. Maybe two.

But I disagree with you about parking close as being a big deal. (When you don't have kids.) I prefer the back of the lot, that way I get to walk a little bit, I don't have to park in tight spots, and I don't have to drive around a tight area with people who do not know how to drive. I can park in the back and walk in the store way before the people who wait for a close spot or circle even one time.

[judith]

Originally posted by Kwyjibo

I'm not saying a boycott of Best Buy is in order, but maybe it is, who buys Huge TV's, top of the line computers, insane stereos and excessive amounts of video games. MEN. MOSTLY LIKE THOSE WITHOUT CHILDREN!


Men huh? Men without children even. Are you sure? Sounds ignorant of thier customer base to me, if not discriminatory.

Allthough families might also be used (and misused: "hey, it's me and my brother - we're family!"), I like the idea because I think it's a safety issue. Children ARE physically different than adults, much like the disabilty point you made, and furthermore, I really don't see this as leading to people setting out to have children so they can take advantage of better parking, all though I guess some might, as logic in not inherent in men. (Meaning.. humans, not men specifically)

[Stelliform]

Not to get this off-topic here...

I find it odd that they use the word women on the sign. And I have to say that I do take the smallest bit of offense at that. (Very small... ;))

But I am a very involved father. I change diapers, bathe kids every other night, put kids to bed every night. And when I am not working I am taking care of my kids. (My wife has it made. And she doesn't read MacRumors so I can say that ;) :D) But it is true that I haven't done anything for me since at least May without my kids. My golf clubs are very lonely. :(

I have had to change poopie diapers in the back of my SUV since there are no baby stations in the men's bathrooms where I was. Although they have them in some men's bathrooms in town...

I have to say that the majority of care givers for children are women, but Men make up a growing number.

OK, my rant on oppressed male care-givers has subsided. :D

[Kwyjibo]

In general Men earn more than women, single men have a higher disposible income than married men. This means they have more to spend, they are more likely to buy gadgets and the things mentioned above which is why I said that.

I do my fair share of walking, I walk to class and I walk to the store, when i'm away at school I walk everywhere, when i'm home and driving 5 months out of the year, I don't think i should be prohbitied from parking in these types of spots.

Yes people drive too fast in parking lots, i don't think thats effected by where parents are parking.

The sign itself is bad, and women with a child could park there... even me at 18 and i'm mother in her forties ...

Kids need to learn how to behave in parking lots, when I was approximately 5 years old, my dog was hit by a car, and he recovered but it was very scary ... from there on I learned the street was something to be respected. No one should have to experience tramatic things like that but they happen, what about when kids are 10 years old and they still misbehave in the street or assume every car will see them.

obviously these are moves to increase bestbuys sales of family related items and toys , the even ahve a section in my best buy right up front for kids with random toys ...

Another question, has anyone seen the movie stealing harvard, well the guy works in a physical therapy store, the whole parking lot is basically handicap spots and a few regualr spots, i found it entertaining at the time but in reality this is how it could be ... .

[rainman::|:|]

Kwyjibo: my point was not that speeding drivers (go to any parking lot, people, it's insane) are affecting parents' ability to park; rather that when you have a child who has been hit by a Ford Explorer doing 40, and is now laying on hot concrete with his life running out of him, parking nearer the store for those with children doesn't seem so bad. happens all the time, children dart out from between cars and get flattened. yes, it's the parent's responsibility to watch the children, and yes that child should have behaved properly, but mortality is a foreign concept to a 2-year-old. and people don't know how to parent anymore.

i stand by my assessment that these should remain in place, remain voluntary, and be re-worded as "people with young children".

pnw

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
, but mortality is a foreign concept to a 2-year-old.

pnw

I would go as far to say all the way up to 16 here. :D

No matter how vigilant the parent, stuff happens. I know my two year old has gotten away from me in parking lots. Sometimes they are slippery little buggers.

It is also very difficult to be a parent now.

My step father was telling us how car trip discipline was handled by his dad. When they were bad his dad would give them one warning. Then if they were bad again he would stop the car, get them all out, take off his belt, and whip every kid down a line. Then they would get back in and go on their trip.

Try doing that today. The cops would call social services on you. Back then you were being a good parent and disciplining your kids and society supported you. Today you are an abuser and people give you dirty looks if you kids are misbehaving, or if you spank them in public. You can't win as a parent.

(I know this will start a spanking debate, but physical punishment is probably the most effective way of making a child behave in public. It is quick, with quick results.) Flame away...

Oh one more thing on the nostalgia trip... Back in the 60's all adults looked out for the discipline of kids. If they saw a kid do something wrong they would drag the kid by his ear to his parents. And the parents would thank the other adult. Now we all fear of touching someone else's kid in case we might be sued by the parent. "It takes a village to raise a child." (Most effectively)

I need to go to bed. I am ranting way to much here...... :D

[coopdog]

Why does the woman look like she lost or something?

That sign is just makes me laugh. Did they really have to say the women bit? Couldn't have been just family parking or something? They have them at a best buy here. If no one is around I'm going to color in the Wo in women. So it's men with children. :D

[Kwyjibo]

all nine of them?

[Wardofsky]

Hmmm, I don't think they would fine you if a male with a kids/s parked there, but they do seem to be presuming that the woman is the one caring for the child.

It's a stereotyped world...

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by Kwyjibo
all nine of them?

nine is excessive to say the least. two, perhaps four if it's a large store or one popular for parents. if i saw a couple of these, i would respect them, if i saw nine of these, i would park in one. gladly.

:)
pnw

[voicegy]

Insulting and preposterous in many respects.

1. The woman is pictured as wearing a dress (sexist) and having what looks like pigtails of sorts (racist...denotes possible "white women only" undertone)

2. Assumptive that only women would have children with them, not men. (already discussed)

3. Indicates that women with children only would need to park near to the entrance because women are in less control of their children and would need the "extra help" in closer parking. Denotes inferior childrearing stereotyping.

4. Wording on sign does not match graphic..."children" is plural. The appropriate graphic should show more than one child, or the wording should be changed to "a child."

5. Ambiguous. What is the age level allowed? What is the cut off? Opens itself up to guesswork....interpretation unclear.

6. Assumptive that a person knows how to read English. Non-English speaking women may look at the graphic and interpret it as a place to stand around and wait, which may open the way to injuries, the very opposite of what the sign was intended to prevent.

(taking deep breath)

Now, most, if not all, of my comments above are for amusement...but if you stop to think for a minute, and remind yourself that people actually sat around a table and discussed this issue, the causations for issuing the signs and spaces, how it should be worded, what the graphic should be, how it would be enforced, the legal issues, blah blah blah, one can almost hear the yahoos that came up with this in the first place coming up with comments just like that.

Or perhaps they should have...then the silly things wouldn't have been created in the first place.

This idea HAD to have come out of some "incident" of some sort that happened at one of their stores, or that very location. It wound its way through various managerial meetings to ultimately show itself in the form that it has taken.

At first blush, I tend to agree with the original poster of this thread...it DOES seem outrageous. And silly. And then...it sort of grows on you...like having cameras tracking your every move...you get used to it...and then...it becomes acceptable to the point of thinking any store NOT having one being, well, just plain UNAMERICAN...

...and then they're everywhere.

Oh, one more thing they got wrong:

7. ÒWeightist.Ó Graphic indicates "thin is in" when clearly this is not the case. Graphic should be changed to have proper "weight" values applied...all children today are 80 pounds overweight...therefore, probably the reason it was created in the first place...

Overweight Americans with fat children can't walk far.

[Kwyjibo]

Originally posted by paulwhannel
nine is excessive to say the least. two, perhaps four if it's a large store or one popular for parents. if i saw a couple of these, i would respect them, if i saw nine of these, i would park in one. gladly.

:)
pnw

I parked kinda between bestbuy and the next store, i noticed three on that row, then i noticed the signs had two faces and that the otherside was also a problem. Then I looked on to the new few rows and the there were four more, i was pissed

[Dros]

Originally posted by voicegy
This idea HAD to have come out of some "incident" of some sort that happened at one of their stores, or that very location. It wound its way through various managerial meetings to ultimately show itself in the form that it has taken.

One semi-side note... in Germany, parking structures reserve rows of spots near the doors for mothers with children. It is not a new thing there. So it could have been an idea imported from Europe. I don't have any problem with it in general. I'm sure it is very helpful for some people that could need help. It would be nice to recognize fathers as needing help, too. But I tend to park at the first spot I see, even if it is way away from the entrance, so I don't mind 'prime' spots being taken.

[rainman::|:|]

Originally posted by voicegy
...people actually sat around a table and discussed this issue, the causations for issuing the signs and spaces, how it should be worded, what the graphic should be, how it would be enforced, the legal issues, blah blah blah, one can almost hear the yahoos that came up with this in the first place coming up with comments just like that.

Or perhaps they should have...then the silly things wouldn't have been created in the first place...

exactly. there's no reason for this to be an issue, if they intend to put these up, they need to think about it a little bit. i still don't think it's best buy doing this, i'd guess it's the people that have started implementing "expectant mother" signs... anyway, having firsthand knowledge of marketing, i can tell you that not even the tiniest bit of foresight went into the design of this.

when you have 300 million people, doing something that will impact so many of them should really warrant a day's worth of discussion...

pnw

[Kwyjibo]

we can rule out expectant, because either the woman in the photo doens't know shes pregnant or shes carrying her unborn child very well.

[voicegy]

Originally posted by Dros
One semi-side note... in Germany, parking structures reserve rows of spots near the doors for mothers with children. It is not a new thing there.

Really? ...how long has this been in place? Is it quite common? Was it started by a privately held company then "caught on," or was it a city concept? Was there public reaction to it at first? If so, was it primarily positive, negative, or neutral?

I'd be interested to hear...reactions to such things from differing cultures is fascinating to me...

[Sabenth]

to cut the shorts and curls on this one i am a parent i dont drive no car at least at the moment but the way it works is this. i am from the uk i live in australia the same rules apply in both palces theres parking spaces for parents with kids. or in some places its parents with push chairs now go figure that one out LMAO.

but heres the real but kicker there are also parking spaces for disabled next to the moms / dads area parking and well lets just say no one follows the rules

[coopdog]

I think a prank call is in order to my local Best Buy! My friend said they have the same signs, I wonder how many they have being in Utah and all. :rolleyes: :mad: Did you know if you go to public school here and your not morman you will be made fun of! Quite silly if you ask me. Yes prank call from some fake equal rights org. with a really long name is in order. Ill try an hook it up.

[scem0]

How can you not like the parking spots reserved for women and children? Do you know how dangerous it is for a woman to walk an extra 30 feet? especially with children...

She can't begin to defend herself against rapists, druken drivers, and killers. She has to be right by the door so she can run in before they get her! Do you honestly want her to risk her own life and the lives of her poor, innocent children trying to brave the extra 30 feet?

How increadibly rude of you.

scem0

[rainman::|:|]

i will point out again, since people don't bother reading above... these signs are nationwide, and were preceded by a nationwide campaign of "expectant mother" parking spaces, maybe a year or two ago, it got mild press with officials asking people to respect them, but that they weren't passing a law to enforce them. so the concept is not new. i have seen less and less of the expectant signs over the past year...

scem0, i reiterate that i do believe it can be dangerous for a person with children to be walking through a parking lot... if i went just by how many i've almost hit (little buggers are fast), i'd say there are probably quite a few. i remember watching a kid get pretty seriously injured a couple of years ago at a wal-mart, 10 feet from where i was standing. the idea here is that a parent trying to manage, say, 4 or 5 kids might have a problem keeping them out of traffic's way. and again, i point out that children should not be allowed in stores to begin with. makes shopping just plain unpleasant for the rest of us. but i digress...

pnw

[coopdog]

Originally posted by scem0
How can you not like the parking spots reserved for women and children? Do you know how dangerous it is for a woman to walk an extra 30 feet? especially with children...

She can't begin to defend herself against rapists, druken drivers, and killers. She has to be right by the door so she can run in before they get her! Do you honestly want her to risk her own life and the lives of her poor, innocent children trying to brave the extra 30 feet?

How increadibly rude of you.

scem0

Was that a joke?

Yes, killers and rapists run rampant in Best Buy parking lots, especially when the lot is so crowded that a mother needs to use the "mother and children spots." If a mother can't handle her kids walking 30' feet in a parking lot where people are going 15MPH, maybe she shouldn't have kids in the first place.

Do you honestly want her to risk her own life and the lives of her poor, innocent children trying to brave the extra 30 feet? I can honestly say yes.

Brave the 30 feet? Oh come on.

Do you know how dangerous it is for a woman to walk an extra 30 feet? especially with children... What are there landmines in this parking lot?

How increadibly rude of you. NO! Your the one that doesn't think a woman can defend herself or handle kids.

[judith]

My interpretation was that indeed it was a joke -

You all just push n shove for those spaces, I'll continue to park my beloved truck (kids n all) out in the back 40.

I do find it ironic tho, that we appease so many 'individuals' - basically segregating via political correctness, while at the same time dispute, or are offended by the generalizations. :confused:

[MacPulse Zack]

My only issue with the sign is the woman implication. I go all kinds of places with my daughter without my wife so this is indeed discrimination against me as a "Father With Children". The graphics on the sign could also be offensive to others.

But who cares? The entire subject is absurd... It's not about marketing, safety, sexism, etc. It's just plain absurd :)

I did see a justified sign at another store around here a while back - said "Parking for Pregnant Women" <- that's difficult to argue with :) And there were no graphics on the sign to take issue with, just wording in big bold letters.

And in some parts of town, mainly near downtown, there are "Police Parking Only" signs near the handicap spaces too. That's justified, IMHO.

-Zack

[true777]

I, in fact, am a tiny 5'2" girl with a strong, fast, hyperactive toddler, and I can tell you that it is very hard to get my child from the car to the store.
He'll scream, kick, run, throw himself to the ground... not always, but it happens, and it certainly happens to many parents. It was also hard for me when he was a baby, having to carry both him in his heavy car seat/carrier, and my purchases from the store out to the car. I do think it's a tad bit harder for women, since they're just not as strong as guys who can just carry their toddlers through a huge lot without a problem, even if the kid struggles.

Of course I think a "family with kids" sign would be more appropriate than a women with kids one, but I do think it's a little harder for women.

It is completely true that in Europe, family parking spots are common and ubiquitous. Once you've tried to maneuver a cart full of groceries, a stroller, a bottle and heavy diaper bag, and a cranky toddler who refuses to ride in the stroller or cart, from the store to your car, you'll appreciate this.

Before I had my child, walking the extra 30 seconds and accepting the fact that the closest spots were reserved for families never bothered me in the least. I always thought it was the right thing, just as letting a senior taking the better spot, or in fact anyone who is limited in his/her mobility.

[kiwi_the_iwik]

Well - considering for the past year and a half I've become a solo dad of a 3 year old, I don't care what the shops think - I'D still park there.

I used to have TONS of problems over here when it came to my son - namely the whole "nappy changing" thing, and use of the "Mother's room". I was in ONE shopping centre, where I wasn't allowed into the changing facilities. Screw that - I thought.

"Call a cop if you've got a problem, and I'll sue you for sexual discrimination."

That worked...

Thank God he's been out of nappies for a while. But the parking issue is not an issue over here anymore - now they've changed them all to "PARENTS with children".

Still, there ARE a few places where there's problems. And it's because of THOSE places that I say that it's time for single dads to stand up and fight the oppression!

Rah! Rah!

:D

[caveman_uk]

Originally posted by kiwi_the_iwik
But the parking issue is not an issue over here anymore - now they've changed them all to "PARENTS with children".

We've had these spaces for a while here and generally they are denoted as being for 'parents with children'. Usually the disabled spaces are even nearer to the shop. Most but not all people seem to respect the spaces but when a car park is full then tough. Survival of the fittest....

[jonapete2001]

Who cares. This is the dumbest thing in the world to get upset about. Wall Mart has signs for Seniors, not hadicaped people, but just seniors in general. So what I park their anyway. Their is no law that says you actually have to obey those parking signs, except for the disabled ones. All this PC ************ police needs to end.

[coopdog]

What?

[mymemory]

Is not about how valuable you are as a costumer. It is about manners, education, cortesy and principals.

A man can carry a kid on his arms for 300 feets, a woman just can not.

If I have my wife with a kid it would be very good for me having her parking very close to the door of the store. If she have to park far away with my kid she could get kidnaped or who knows what because there is not the same amount of security. Imagine if is raining and she have to carry the kid too.

I see a lot of sense in the add, it is just like remind you to let your seat to a woman if you are in a bus. No mater how rich or tired you maybe, it si a mater of being a gentleman.

Prety sad people have to remind that now days.

The ad for me is just fine. That I'm agree with having a different ad for a different need? no. They can have an special kind of ad for Women with kids and 3rd age people too.

[Aeolius]

This is Best Buy we're talking about. Everyone parks in the fire lane, anyway. ;)

[Abstract]

Originally posted by true777
I, in fact, am a tiny 5'2" girl with a strong, fast, hyperactive toddler, and I can tell you that it is very hard to get my child from the car to the store.......

.....It was also hard for me when he was a baby, having to carry both him in his heavy car seat/carrier........ I do think it's a tad bit harder for women, since they're just not as strong as guys who can just carry their toddlers through a huge lot without a problem, even if the kid struggles.
Originally posted by mymemory
A man can carry a kid on his arms for 300 feets, a woman just can not.

If I have my wife with a kid it would be very good for me having her parking very close to the door of the store. If she have to park far away with my kid she could get kidnaped or who knows what because there is not the same amount of security. Imagine if is raining and she have to carry the kid too.


I don't have children (that I know of :D), but what makes everyone assume that a man with children can easily get his child through a parking lot and into a store with much less difficulty? What if you're 5'5" and generally not a big guy? What if a father brings his 2 children? Or 3 children. Is it really that "much easier for a dad to carry a car seat/carrier" AND a child? Probably not. Easier? Yes (maybe), but not so easy that being a mother is basically considered some sort of handicap in mobility when compared to a father with children.

What happens when my grandmother brings my mom to Best Buy? :p

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by Abstract

What happens when my grandmother brings my mom to Best Buy? :p

Then they would have two options, family and Senior citizen parking.... ;)

[kevin49093]

I've got a problem with this sign reading "Women....". It should of course be Families with small children.

As for those who feel they can park there because it is not against the law, you are right. You can park there. I think the reason Best Buy is doing this is to help people. Sure, having children isn't a disibility, but it is something that is difficult. Is is such a bad thing to actually help people out thest days? Or does it always have to be about making things as easy as possable for you?

I have two small kids, and a third on the way. When I'm out bu myself I park in any spot. I don't mind walking an extra 100' to get to the door.

How many of you that are complaining spend extra time waiting in the car or searching for a parking spot so that you won't have to walk fro an extra 60 seconds or so?

[Roger1]

Ok, as a parent of two boys ages 9 and 5(today) I feel compelled to give my two cents.

1. Carrying your kid by the arm can cause 'nursemaid elbow' This it where the arm dislocates at the elbow, causing the ligament (tendon?) to be pinched between the bones. This happened to my oldest when he was a toddler and was playing with a friend of ours. We had to take him to the emergency room to have it fixed. I think it's caused by the rapid pulling on the arm. I'm not judging anybody here, a lot of people have never heard of this, so I'm just passing the info along.

2. I take my kids to Best Buy frequently. Now that I know they have these parking places, I am going to use them. If Best Buy doesn't like it too bad.

3. The sign should say, 'People with small children"

edit: clarification

[Kwyjibo]

Originally posted by caveman_uk Survival of the fittest....

haha, i was going to say that but didn't have the nerve, go Darwin!

Also this is about marketing and sexism, Best Buy does this intentionally so that Women specifically those with small children go and shop there because they can aprk closely

[Giaguara]

they park closer > walk less > get a bigger butt (and so will their kids). quit complaining.. ;)

[pseudobrit]

This is sexist. Against women and men.

[sethypoo]

I think if a dad with kids parked there no one would have a problem.

Traditionally, it's women who run errands with children. This is changing though, for the better if you ask me.

I wouldn't mind being a stay-at-home-dad in about 10 years or so, once I have my degrees.

[Sun Baked]

I hope the spaces are extra wide, you wouldn't want a woman parallel parking or pulling into a narrow parking space. Especially if they're disctracted by drunk midgets. :eek:

And they're probaby not discriminating against men, the women were probably the ones doing the most damage to the other customer cars in the parking lot.

You should take those signs are the warning they are and park as far away as possible.

[jywv8]

I think they should have special spaces near the entrance for people without kids who want to buy their merchandise and get out of the store as quickly as possible without having to deal with other people's kids.

If people have such terrible difficulty navigating a parking lot with their children, then they should leave their children at home.

[jywv8]

Originally posted by kevin49093
Sure, having children isn't a disibility, but it is something that is difficult. Is is such a bad thing to actually help people out thest days? Or does it always have to be about making things as easy as possable for you?

I think it's about treating people fairly. I don't think people with children deserve special treatment (special parking spaces, priority airplane boarding, tax breaks, etc).

But I agree with previous posters in so far as this is just Best Buy doing some customer relations, tryng to get more people to shop at their stores. If it works, bully for them. People who don't like it can take their dollars somewhere else.

[shadowfax]

kwyjibo aske me to weigh in, so i will say right up front the obvious and indisputable:

this is ridiculous.

there's no apparent purpose to it, because it's insultingly vague. what are children? are they only under 8? under 6? maybe it's just for mothers in general. do you have to have your children literally with you, or do you just have to have had children? what if you have a kid, sort of, but you aborted it?

ultimately, it's not a legal thing. they can put it up there, but you can so easily argue your way out of it. it's not in any legal code, and it's not explained there at all.

Originally posted by mymemory
Is not about how valuable you are as a costumer. It is about manners, education, cortesy and principals.and you're every bit as good at those as you are with english, aren't you? [sorry, that was a cheap shot, but you really asked for it. that's not what this is about at all.A man can carry a kid on his arms for 300 feets, a woman just can not.sure they can. my mom is fine at that. but even if they can't, they should have a stroller. also, some men are every bit as weak as the women you're flagrantly, unmannerly, uncourteously, and ignorantly stereotyping. If I have my wife with a kid it would be very good for me having her parking very close to the door of the store. If she have to park far away with my kid she could get kidnaped or who knows what because there is not the same amount of security. Imagine if is raining and she have to carry the kid too.the rain comes down on men with kids just as much as it does on women with kids. don't be silly. if you were with your wife and it were raining, anyway, you would have to have the courtesy, manners, and education (which you're so up on, i imagine) to drop her off at the door of the store and then park with all the other plebian men and women who aren't alone with children, as well as the men who are trekking with children through the hardass rain.I see a lot of sense in the add, it is just like remind you to let your seat to a woman if you are in a bus. No mater how rich or tired you maybe, it si a mater of being a gentleman.

Prety sad people have to remind that now days. you cannot make men give up their seats for women. that's completely politically incorrect, and unconstitutional in its most basic spirit. you can't MAKE people be nice. that's asinine. if you're mad at people for not being courteous, it's understandable. if you think you can make them give up what's theirs by force, though, you have no place in my country.The ad for me is just fine. That I'm agree with having a different ad for a different need? no. They can have an special kind of ad for Women with kids and 3rd age people too. that just made no sense at all.

[sethypoo]

Originally posted by jywv8

If people have such terrible difficulty navigating a parking lot with their children, then they should leave their children at home.

Um, right.

Children+alone+at home=disaster.

Basic parenting.

Not everyone has a stay at home parent or babysitter, sometimes the kids have to come with the parent, because a (small) kid alone is a scary, scary thing.

[scem0]

Sorry about my post on page 1.

I thought my sardonicism was obvious; I guess I am more subtle than I thought.

So in short, I was just kidding. I think the sign is ludacris. Well, I don't really have an objection to it, but why don't they just add a section for midgets, another for asian people, and one for inliscenced illegal drivers while they are at it?

It just seems very pointless and stupid to me. But I don't have any objections to it I guess.

scem0

[Kwyjibo]

So I was in that parking lot again today doing some shopping at the KB toys there for the kids in my family and guess who was parked there today Senior Citizens I saw them getting in their car and as i was walking to my car they were flooring it down the row... definately shot them the finger for nearly running me down

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by jywv8
I think they should have special spaces near the entrance for people without kids who want to buy their merchandise and get out of the store as quickly as possible without having to deal with other people's kids.

If people have such terrible difficulty navigating a parking lot with their children, then they should leave their children at home.

Maybe they should stay home with their children. Leaving them at home alone is not a good idea. Perhaps, online ordering and delivery would be of use. A family hour might be a good in-store event too.

I would vote for a ban on cellular phones in the checkout lanes to get through more quickly. I don't find people with kids to be a impediment to speedy shopping.

As far as signs go, the expectant mother signs are great and Famiies with Children signs would be good as well. I've seen the former around Orlando but not the latter. It would be nice if the handicapped spots are used only by those who are handicapped. Then again, sidewalks which are wheelchair-compatible would be nice too.

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by bousozoku
Maybe they should stay home with their children. Leaving them at home alone is not a good idea. Perhaps, online ordering and delivery would be of use. A family hour might be a good in-store event too.

Well, I stayed home with my kids today, and after a few hours we hit the roads. Nothing worse than being cooped up in the house with bored kids.

When I was a teenager I was annoyed by people who had kids. But when I was a teenager the world revolved around me.. Attitudes change as you get older. Regardless of having kids or not...

Bousozoku, do you find kids bug you in stores? Do you have kids?

[Mal]

Dude, people, get a life. This is not insulting to men, women, children, seniors, or anyone else in the world who doesn't look for things to be upset about. If Best Buy wants to put up signs like this, they can put them up. They are not breaking any law, they are not forcing you to follow them, and they are doing exactly the right thing by taking care of the people who need care. No matter what you say, women are the weaker sex. They are not inferior because of it, rather I feel that they are to be treated very highly, as they are absolutely indispensable. What happened to chivalry? In fact, instead of complaining that there were 9 spots reserved for them, I think we should complain, if anything, that there weren't more spots reserved for them! After all, there's a lot more than 9 mothers with children in that parking lot at one time if those signs are needed. Find a real problem to complain about. I'm not coming back to this topic, so don't bother with flames, I already know what you'll say anyways, but really, anyone who complains about this is seriously missing out on some valuable life skills. Go find yourself a woman! (Or man as the case may be)

JW

P.S. Just for the sake of everyone else reading this, why don't you identify yourself as a liberal or conservative before you continue, I bet it's pretty obvious which way they fall.

[vniow]

Originally posted by skywalker
No matter what you say, women are the weaker sex.

Wow, if that's not a sexist comment than I don't know what is.

And what do liberal or conservative have anything to do with this thread?

[bousozoku]

Originally posted by Stelliform
Well, I stayed home with my kids today, and after a few hours we hit the roads. Nothing worse than being cooped up in the house with bored kids.

When I was a teenager I was annoyed by people who had kids. But when I was a teenager the world revolved around me.. Attitudes change as you get older. Regardless of having kids or not...

Bousozoku, do you find kids bug you in stores? Do you have kids?

Kids don't bug me in stores. I don't have any of my own, but I grew up caring for my many cousins from my adoptive mum's family. If anything, I find many parents to be annoying. They don't want to be bothered with responsibility concerning themselves or their children. I'm all for discipline for the microwave generations. :D

I understand that you wanted to get out. and I certainly wouldn't blame you. :D

[Dros]

I think it would be a good sign for the world if stores could post "use these spots if you need them" signs near the door. That would be great, even if most were taken up by self-centered, self-important dorks who just like a break when it comes their way. It wouldn't have to be a matter of women vs men, handouts or discrimination, just making space available and hoping people have the judgement to use it fairly. Of course, if that was possible, we could also leave piles of cash on street corners instead of having a welfare system, but small steps!

I did notice a few people posting "These signs aren't legally binding, so I just park there." I have to wonder why. Maybe if the lot is full? I'm usually eager to get out of the car as soon as possible and don't mind a stroll. As vniow says, most people need a little more exercise.

skywalker: I'm liberal. Perhaps as my message above attests, a "living in la-la land" liberal.

[Kwyjibo]

Being observant, and absorbed in something for a few hours and telling my friends how i think its crap is different than flying to washington and protesting on the whitehouse lawn .... i'm not doing the latter , i'm just mad plain and simple. Evne though skywalker won't read this he weakens his point by making his broad generalizations, women are weaker, whoever thinks this is wrong needs more social skills. I also would not mind courtesy spots but the fact that I already saw the spaces mis-used technically today and was almost hit by the driver from the spot I wonder what the poiint is ...

Legally sure they cna do it , its their's to enforce I suppose but living in a family thats spent thousans there over the years i'm dissapointed.




to scem0, i knew what u really meant in the first post :)

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by Dros
I think it would be a good sign for the world if stores could post "use these spots if you need them" signs near the door.

I like that idea! Kind of like take a penny, leave a penny containers at cash registers. (If you guys don't have them where you are, they are cups with change in them and if your purchase comes out to a few cents over a dollar and you do not have it on you, then you borrow a penny. And down the road when your change is a few cents you leave it in the cup there... They seem to have survived here for the last 5 or so years....)

bousozoku, I figured you would be one for discipline. :)

I am too, what bugs me is people who don't discipline because they want to be their kid's friend. I mean Hello!?!?! How many friends will their kid have, and how many parents do they get? It may feel nice to be your kids friend, but in the long run you are hurting your kid by not giving them a parent....

Oops there I go posting after midnight again. My posts get increasingly off-topic as it gets later. :)

[Sabenth]

What exsatly is it that is pissing people off here. I agree the Sign is a bit wrong in wording but its all common and i hate to say this. but most shoppers are female and some of them have kids with them. how many men do you honestly know like going to shoping malls and spending all day spending cash on crap. its a sign its polticly incorect get over it... Jeez

its early in the morning iam feeling like i need to get crap of my chest so dont arjie bargjie me over this issue

[Giaguara]

Originally posted by true777
It is completely true that in Europe, family parking spots are common and ubiquitous.

I don't really remmber having EVER seen any parking spots reserved for families in Europe. But of course it's only because I've lived there only in Italy, UK, Spain, Slovakia, Finland .. but no other country there where I have travelled (all western europe excluding Norway, Greece and Iceland; and countries around Slovakia). :rolleyes:

In Italy you just have to get used to adding 45 minutes to finding a parking spot.

[true777]

Originally posted by Giaguara
I don't really remmber having EVER seen any parking spots reserved for families in Europe. But of course it's only because I've lived there only in Italy, UK, Spain, Slovakia, Finland .. but no other country there where I have travelled (all western europe excluding Norway, Greece and Iceland; and countries around Slovakia). :rolleyes:

.

wow. that's weird.

I've lived in Europe for 26 years, but only in Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and a few short-term stints in other countries.

So I guess I should say that I've seen family parking spots a lot in
Central Europe. They usually just have a stroller printed on them.

[Potus]

Originally posted by true777
wow. that's weird.

I've lived in Europe for 26 years, but only in Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and a few short-term stints in other countries.

So I guess I should say that I've seen family parking spots a lot in
Central Europe. They usually just have a stroller printed on them.

Now that signage and message make sense.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Potus
Now that signage and message make sense. seriously, that's much more politically correct--it's specific that the children have to be unable to walk themselves, and it's not gender specific about the parent/guardian.

[Potus]

Originally posted by shadowfax
seriously, that's much more politically correct--it's specific that the children have to be unable to walk themselves, and it's not gender specific about the parent/guardian.


true dat

[Giaguara]

Originally posted by true777
wow. that's weird.

I've lived in Europe for 26 years, but only in Austria, Germany, the Netherlands, and a few short-term stints in other countries.

So I guess I should say that I've seen family parking spots a lot in
Central Europe. They usually just have a stroller printed on them.

Well, central europe then. Not in any of the countries I lived there. And that was nearly as long as you lived there. ;) (excluding both americas)

[Sabenth]

i Knew i should have said stroller. i think its compolusary now in europe to have parking for parents. and it has to be close to shopping centers..

[MattG]

I personally think this is stupid as well. It shouldn't be restricted to women with children, anyway.

One thing they have down here in Florida at some Publix's (it's a supermarket for those of you who don't have them) is reserved parking spaces for pregnant women. That makes sense.

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Giaguara
Well, central europe then. Not in any of the countries I lived there. And that was nearly as long as you lived there. ;) (excluding both americas) meh :p

i suspect that you may just not be as attentive about such things. i can see how they would be easy not to notice. but actually noticing them is undebatable. if you saw them, they are there, and there's no contesting that, barring accusations about lies and doubts about existence.

[Giaguara]

Originally posted by shadowfax
meh :p

i suspect that you may just not be as attentive about such things. i can see how they would be easy not to notice. but actually noticing them is undebatable. if you saw them, they are there, and there's no contesting that, barring accusations about lies and doubts about existence.

okay. call me unattentive about that thing.

would anyone _else_ in italy, spain, portugal etc mind posting how many parking lots for "women with children" they have seen in their country?

[shadowfax]

Originally posted by Giaguara
okay. call me unattentive about that thing.

would anyone _else_ in italy, spain, portugal etc mind posting how many parking lots for "women with children" they have seen in their country?
i already did call you that... here, i'll do it again:

you're inattentive about stroller-using reserved parking signs in central europe! shame on you! god will never forgive that!

;) :p

[Kwyjibo]

Well, I just got back from school and the signs now read Parking for Parents with Children, they even added a little guy to the picture, I'm less outraged, I still don't like it but I"m less outraged ... I will post a picture soon.

[scem0]

Originally posted by Kwyjibo


to scem0, i knew what u really meant in the first post :)

What did I really mean in the first post? :confused:

scem0

[Kwyjibo]

Originally posted by scem0
How can you not like the parking spots reserved for women and children? Do you know how dangerous it is for a woman to walk an extra 30 feet? especially with children...

She can't begin to defend herself against rapists, druken drivers, and killers. She has to be right by the door so she can run in before they get her! Do you honestly want her to risk her own life and the lives of her poor, innocent children trying to brave the extra 30 feet?

How increadibly rude of you.

scem0

I meant about this one, It looked like u were being sarcastic but not everyone noticed that

[manitoubalck]

The Excersise will do them good, as it did us.

[Stelliform]

I know this is off topic, but tonight my boys flipped a cart at Lowe's. Right into a display of levels. They were in the cart (we put them in the cart so that they won't run around the store) and they were leaning over trying to grab a level. (My wife was watching them...) The next thing I hear a crash and they are pinned under the cart. The poor Lowe's guy was right there. My oldest is screaming about his head, (just a bruise) I think the Lowe's guy was thinking lawsuit... Anyway, we fussed at them and then went on with our shopping.

Some days are harder than others as a parent. :(

Now On topic. We went shopping all day, and we really didn't need family parking. But my boys are getting older. (5 and 2) and there was both my wife and I there. After Lowe's we started using two carts to keep them in. :D

[bousozoku]

I hope they're okay after being leveled. Maybe they'll remember that before reaching for daddy's tools. :D

Do you have a leash or a harness for either kid? ;) I've seen kids running wild in the mall and it only takes a minute or two for someone to pick them up and find an exit and during holiday shopping, so many people are distracted.

[Stelliform]

Originally posted by bousozoku
I hope they're okay after being leveled. Maybe they'll remember that before reaching for daddy's tools. :D

Do you have a leash or a harness for either kid? ;) I've seen kids running wild in the mall and it only takes a minute or two for someone to pick them up and find an exit and during holiday shopping, so many people are distracted.

They have to hold hands in crowds. In the store it is hard to hold hands and shop. But in the mall we use a stroller for the little one, and carts for both when they are available. Usually we use the kid carts with the big backs, but Lowe's was out that day. :(

Last night I was thinking maybe I should invest in shock dog collars. :D ;)

[oldschool]

I was just looking around in the old posts...


lets beat the horse just a bit more, shall we?

And if you reply to complain, you are no better than me, and have done your part too in bringing back an inane thread.

[Hemingray]

4. Wording on sign does not match graphic..."children" is plural. The appropriate graphic should show more than one child, or the wording should be changed to "a child."

I feel obligated to point out the flaw in your #4. "Women" is plural as well, so why isn't there more than one woman depicted? Because they're addressing us on a per vehicle basis. The incongruous "women with a child" would then be discriminating against a single woman with a single child, or several women with several children.

I shall now use a single smiley to convey my opinion on all of this: :rolleyes:

[Sun Baked]

I was just looking around in the old posts...


lets beat the horse just a bit more, shall we?

And if you reply to complain, you are no better than me, and have done your part too in bringing back an inane thread.OK, I'll try...

http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=6621&stc=1

Darn, wasn't as much fun the third time around with this hairy old thread. :(

Maybe somebody will shoot this thread like it deserves. http://forums.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11920&stc=1

[Kwyjibo]

Doesn't deserve to be shot at all but closed perhaps, don't dig up the past it only gets you dirty.