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030108
Oct 11, 2008, 09:09 PM
Today is October 11, 2008. I just updated from Leopard 10.5.3 to 10.5.4

[Although I have seen Mac experts refer to it as v**d** I, nonetheless, REPAIRED PERMISSIONS after backing up my machine with 2 different software packages --> restarted --> restarted into safe mode --> shutdown --> unplugged ALL peripherals --> restarted --> shutdown my firewall --> shutdown my antivirus --> installed the combo 10.5.4 update

--> restarted --> restarted --> repaired permissions --> restarted into safe mode --> restarted --> shutdown --> plugged ALL my peripherals back in --> restarted]

I am, however, generally dismayed at how, every time Leopard updates are released, significant numbers of users who apply the Leopard update end up with serious problems. ...although I tend to prefer it over using my XP machines, I am not aware of significant numbers of, say, XP users experiencing such serious issues SOLELY as a result of updating XP.

Just as I am doing now, with my Mac, I have, for years, searched forums, etcetera, for user experiences with operating system updates BEFORE applying updates to my Windows 95, 98, 2000, XP machine(s). I have never, in at least a couple decades, or so, of Microsoft operating system use, been able to virtually guarantee that I would find, in user forums, account after account of users whose machines have broken after an update the way I can with Leopard.

And, in my own opinion, what is, possibly, worse is the fact that Apple users, predominantly, seem to try to find some way to dismiss the issue; at least with Leopard they do. I have literally read posts where a Mac owner was complaining about a Leopard update thoroughly incapacitating his/her machine, yet, by the end of the post, the very same user, who still had a machine broken by the Leopard update, was writing how great some upcoming Apple OS release was going to be and how he/she could not wait. Now remember, this is the same person with a machine, presumptively, trashed SOLELY as a result of a Leopard update.

If I did not know better I would call Apple a *ul*.

Anyway, just take these wonderful macintouch.com reader reports and DO THE MATH.

http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/leopard/topic4791.html (for Leopard: Update 10.5.4)

http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/leopard/topic4805.html#d08oct2008 (for Leopard: Update 10.5.5)

Again, just DO THE MATH.

The percentage of users with significant usability problems after a Leopard update make up, I believe you will find, the greatest majority of these reader reports. And, even more disturbing to me, the majority of people who make macintouch.com reader reports about serious Leopard update related issues seem to be more experienced and knowledgeable users.

Also striking, to me, is the fact that, in the XP world, users with a similar level of knowledge and experience usually appear to resolve most issues themselves, or find a resolution on the forums or at micro****'s support pages. However, with Leopard the vast majority of users, by my account, end their posts with statements along the lines of "...hope this gets fixed in the next update."

Now maybe all the previous Apple operating systems were different just like I believe all the previous micro**** operating systems, before **sta, which I do not want to touch with the proverbial 10 foot pole, were different, but, after I DO THE MATH, I can not escape coming to a conclusion very similar to Robert Rydberg's.

"This is the 3rd update for Leopard, just a month after 10.5.3. That one broke a number of Macs, judging from the 'Net traffic on it. 10.5.4 seems to be headed in the same direction.

Leopard has been the worst OS release I have seen in 25 years. Did Apple hire whoever ran Vista at Microsoft? [...]"

Looks like Robert Rydberg has payed attention to the math by calculating the "Net traffic on it" and the math does not lie. Not usually at least. Nice going Robert.

Anyway, my own personal feeling is that no company that has gotten as far as Apple or Micro**** could possibly be full of dumb software engineers that, after years of building software that did not break on 6.8 out of 10 updates, suddenly can not manage such a track record. Personally, I believe they know exactly what they are doing and, further, that is how a company with a meager 5% of the market, or so, makes record profits, besides hiring "experts in the psychology of *ul* creation" maybe and a pricing structure that dwarfs Olympus Mons.

Almost everything used to be made better and made without an emphasis on "planned obsolescence"; cars, refrigerators, dryers, you name it. ...and computer operating systems.

I guess there is no money in quality and reliability anymore.

That is mostly why I wait, on average, 2.75 months before doing a Leopard OS update, or even an XP update. Watch early adopters break their systems and, then, hopefully, not make the same mistake(s).

Again, just DO THE MATH.

The percentage of users with significant usability problems after a Leopard update make up, I believe you will find, the greatest majority of these macintouch reader reports.

Well, I do not see any compelling reason why I "can't wait to do the 10.5.5 update" A MONTH OR TWO FROM NOW.

Do you?

I suppose Adam has updated by now, though. {I checked http://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/leopard/topic4805.html#d08oct2008 . Looks like he did and, just as I would have predicted, is having more problems with the second consecutive update in a row.}

I also suppose that nobody, if any, is ever going to read this post because they have also updated to 10.5.5 by now.

Wait. I will go over to mac****** forums and post it. They will read it. They will read anything. I think.



JNB
Oct 11, 2008, 09:22 PM
Off our meds, are we? :rolleyes:

In thirty years, I have yet to have an Apple OS Update "break" any of my machines. Usually these experiences you note are the result of applications that are not ready for a newer version of the OS, and users impatient to just download and install (and forcing restarts because of the impatience). Or it could be that antivirus "solution" causing problems...

Your conclusions, and the methods used to reach them, are neither compelling, nor particularly useful. The metrics you claim would be laughable if they weren't so pathetically misinformed. Who are you trying to convince?

030108
Oct 12, 2008, 12:58 AM
I'm having MAJOR problems after 10.5.5 update!
(author occupation: IT Tech)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=578492

Safari REFUSES to open after 10.5.5
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=578452

RDC doesn't work after 10.5.5 update
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=568052

Disappearing Minimize Button OS X.5.5
(author occupation: Technology Consultant)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=578885

When the hell is Apple gonna fix the Wireless problem in Leopard?!
(author occupation: Futures Trader)(author: macrumors Demi-**)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=392852&highlight=wireless+problem+in+leopard

OSX locking up when ever I want to do something
(dburney says "...happening to me as well after the 10.5.5 update.)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=574258

Macs are crashing, need help
(luminol74 says "My macs are suddenly crashing every now and then, maybe once a day or once every two days.)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=575564

MBP dead after failed 10.5.5 update
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=564014

Tiger updates freeze internet & Mac Mail
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=574452

Things you HATE about Macs...
(641 is 66.36%)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=401208

System Preferences Application gone
(My System Preferences is gone. I'm running version 10.5.5.)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=575500

MBP won't load Login Screen...ideas?
(author credentials: macrumors 6502a)
(My MBP running 10.5.5 will boot fine but doesn't load the Login Screen. It just cycles the blue screen that appears before it and searching (and finding) the startup disk. It started happening after logging out to let a couple icon changes apply.)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=575460

OS X problem...all text is capital A's!!??
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=463120

can't install any updates
(countrykid333 says "It all started when i tried to install 10.5.5 it told me that installer encountered an unknown error"
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=575128

shared has disappeared from finder
(dawnraid says "it started in 10.5.4 and upgrading to 10.5.5 hasn't fixed it")
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=566870

Dock crashes once a week?
(TH-Gunner says "I think this started with 10.5.3 with me." wxboss67 says "So far there haven't been any resolutions that I've been able to find.)
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=512150

*******030108 says "..they even do reruns on problems that were fixed in previous os versions. Nothing like bringing back problems solved way back when and, apparently, forgetting how to solve them again. ???"
10.5.5: confirm a bug for me: dashboard allows click-through to menubar
(Chundles, a macrumors Demi-* says "This was a bug that was solved in 10.4.1 or one of the early 10.4 point upgrades. IT REAPPEARED!! in 10.5.0 and hasn't been fixed since."
httc://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=573647

These just go on and on and on... The list could be infinite so I will just stop here... DO THE MATH. Subscription anyone? I think Ap*** will probably give you a Snow*ob for your money.

(DO THE MATH yourself- the vast majority ran into SERIOUS issues)
httc://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/leopard/topic4791.html (for Leopard: Update 10.5.4)

(DO THE MATH here also- the vast majority ran into SERIOUS issues)
httc://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/leopard/topic4805.html#d08oct2008 (for Leopard: Update 10.5.5)

I suppose Adam has updated by now, though. {I checked httc://www.macintouch.com/readerreports/leopard/topic4805.html#d08oct2008 . Looks like he did and, just as I would have predicted, is having more problems with the second consecutive update in a row.}

Always trying to get Lennon to take his meds, but he has, in my opinion, got a problem with DENIAL. He says he is not the Lennon the **ds are for, but I think his name is on the ****le

Nevertheless, I still listen to very good music with him despite my own perception of his faults.

Remember. DO THE MATH.

QuarterSwede
Oct 12, 2008, 01:03 AM
Dude, almost no one is going to bother reading both of your posts. Good grief.

030108
Oct 12, 2008, 01:17 AM
Well, I was just trying to be thorough.

But your post is funny.

thanks :)

note: Seriously, in my opinion NOONE wants to read these days and, as indicated, EVERYBODY seems to update, WITHOUT READING all the problems everyone else has had with preveious updates, .38 hours after release of the newest update and, then, they end up in the same boat.

I was just sayin...

Gray-Wolf
Oct 12, 2008, 06:17 AM
I have never had any problems with updates, whether OS or programs.

Ivan P
Oct 12, 2008, 06:24 AM
Well, I was just trying to be thorough.

But your post is funny.

thanks :)

note: Seriously, in my opinion NOONE wants to read these days and, as indicated, EVERYBODY seems to update, WITHOUT READING all the problems everyone else has had with preveious updates, .38 hours after release of the newest update and, then, they end up in the same boat.

I was just sayin...

It's human nature to complain more about things; think about it, if nothing bad happens then people aren't going to say anything. If something bad does happen, then all hell will break loose and said people won't stop bitching about it. The people experiencing problems make up a NEGLIGIBLE amount of all of the Mac owners that updated.

kwood
Oct 12, 2008, 06:40 AM
I have never had a problem with any update on any operating system (including XP and a few variations of Linux). Updates only cause problems if your system is pooched to begin with.

Oh and as an FYI, constantly saying "DO THE MATH" is an open door for people to mock you. I wish you the best with your endeavors, but your post sounds like a whiny 14 year old who doesn't like not getting his own way.

Melrose
Oct 12, 2008, 11:42 AM
My MacBook Pro came with Tiger (10.4) and the DVD to upgrade to Leopard (10.5) - a major update. It was done in less than :45 minutes, and there have been no problems whatsoever with my machine.

DO THE MATH
I've done the math. If you would examine the ratio of problems with upgrades in comparison with successful upgrades, you would find the odds are definitely in your favour to upgrade.

[Windows, on the other hand, loses any way you slice it. Six machines later, with four different versions of Windows, have taught me that problems are inherent.]

iJohnHenry
Oct 12, 2008, 11:59 AM
What a strange thread on an Apple board??

I started with Leopard in February, when I went Fruit, and have all the updates to 10.5.5. No problems.

But, I have not "played" with my iMac either. ;)

dmr727
Oct 12, 2008, 12:52 PM
What's with the different fonts?

This kids, is why you should stay away from drugs.

Xavier
Oct 12, 2008, 01:27 PM
The funny thing is that no one posts about 10.5.5 not giving them problems, so the only thing you will find on this forum are the people with problems.

I updated to 10.5.5 and haven't had any problems.

030108
Nov 2, 2008, 01:09 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=570032&highlight=website+mac+icon

DO THE MATH

rpaloalto
Nov 2, 2008, 01:15 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=570032&highlight=website+mac+icon

DO THE MATH

Good by, and have fun.

030108
Nov 2, 2008, 01:26 PM
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6530452#post6530452

DO THE MATH

Sun Baked
Nov 2, 2008, 01:31 PM
DO THE MATH

You did, and we gave you failing grade on the thread. :p

http://att.macrumors.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=11303

mkrishnan
Nov 2, 2008, 01:34 PM
Enough....