An Issue of Morality

[carbonmotion]

:)

[wdlove]

At your young age is is probably more infatuation than love. I believe that there is only one person that a person would truly fall in love at one point in time. You should try getting to know your roommate. Just try to rerun to regular dating with the girl on your campus and evaluate your feeling for her.

[Counterfit]

There's over 6 billion people in the world, of course there could be more than one "right" person. Although, since you can't seem to stop thinking about "liz", she might be the "only one". Of course, that could be guilt too... Either way, call her up during spring break, and/or over the summer and get together. If not for romance/love etc., then for old times' sake.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[nospleen]

I think you owe it to Sara to be honest with her. Maybe give it a few weeks to see how you feel for sure, then let her know the truth. I would forget about Liz. Liz said to not tell Sara. She would tell someone she messed around with to not tell you. Trust me, if she is deceitful with Sara, she will likely do the same to you.

[gwuMACaddict]

i recently lost a relationship of three years with my wonderful gf because i couldnt be honest with her about another girl... its been tough, i know i made mistakes- the biggest mistake was not being a man and owning up to the truth. be truthful to both of them... don't leave either in the dark... carrying around that guilt is going to kill you... try to explain to them that you aren't ready for a serious committment, you obviously arent if you think you can love two at once. let them know you can handle the relationships in a mature way, caring for their feelings.

hope this all made sense... girls are tough... just be honest, can't go wrong

[carbonmotion]

:)

[nospleen]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
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Isnt there a better solution than this?

I hope so for your sake. Someone help out this poor soul!:D But, I am a firm believer if someone does something to someone else, they will do the same to you. If she is not willing to be honest with Sara, do you really think she will be honest with you? If you are truly looking for a meaningful, longterm relationship, these are the kinds of questions you have to ask yourself.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[MongoTheGeek]

I am assuming at this point that Liz knows about Sara?

The big issue is what to tell Sara about Liz. You need to tell her. From the sounds of it she'll know something is up. Tell her that liz was an old girlfriend and that going home for winter break that you fell into old patterns. Make sure you tell her you will spend spring break.

There are some issues of morality and betrayal with what you have done. Since your relationships are not marriage and are outside the written standards of society you have to deal with perceptions and relatives. It all depends on what they think about it.

You are likely to find and madly love a half dozen other women before you settle down. Some you will stay friends with.

I know that you don't want to hear that too shall pass.

Think of this as a learning experience if nothing else. Tell Sara. Tell her it was a mistake. Go rent Road Trip.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[virividox]

just be honest with both girls :D thats teh best thing

[nospleen]

Be sure to let us know how it goes! I will cross my fingers for you.

[Dippo]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Well I told Sara that I'm going to meet her at the grad library tonight. I think I'm going to tell her. I was tempted to write her an email telling her everything, but that would be too chicken****, even for me.

A few words of advice:

1. Unless you were planning on having a long term relationship with one of them, there is no need to tell them about the other.

2. You are not in love until all those "feelings" go away, and then you still tolerate that person!

3. Different zip codes don't count.

4. Assuming they are both hot, any guy would love to be in your shoes, so appreciate it.

5. If you are already living with Sara, then you have less than a month until the relationship goes to crap.

6. There are plenty of other girls, and if you can get two, then you can get more, just play them until you get tired of them and move on!

[carbonmotion]

:)

[vixapphire]

i'll have what the guy just above me is drinkin'.

seriously, you're 19 in your first year of college. dude, what you should be feeling guilty about, if anything, is the fact that you're spending too much of your time trifling at your girlfriend's, playing house, and not enough time developing your own character, studying and generally being a man about campus. give yourself the chance to be your own man while you're in college, and make sure you take advantage of the opportunity to have a leisurely live-in college experience and learn something while you're there. you won't see many opportunities like that in your lifetime, but as for opportunities to date/live with/fool around and fall in love with different women? by the time you're 30, you'll have forgotten many of their names and you'll be thinking "geez, i'm only thirty - i remember when i was 19 i used to think being 30 was getting old and middle-aged".

dude,
get over yourself and live a little. reinvent yourself in your own image; that's what college is for.

vixapphire

[Dippo]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
..I really love both of them..I have actual respect and admiration for both of them outside of our romantic relationships.

Not to beat a decaying horse, but love is much more than just feelings, respect, and admiration.

Of course if you really do care about them, you might as well tell them about each other.

NOTE: If you do tell them, don't expect to ever talk to them again, especially Sara.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[carbonmotion]

:)

[wdlove]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Well I told Sara that I'm going to meet her at the grad library tonight. I think I'm going to tell her. I was tempted to write her an email telling her everything, but that would be too chicken****, even for me.

I admire your decision to meet Sara face to face. That show a person of true character. Honesty is the best policy. It is the coverup that causes the most trouble. I think that she will admire that. If you are both honest, then you can move forward.

[Dippo]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Dean's list first semester. Recreational cross country in the fall. UM-Model UN .. Committe Chair. Memeber of 5 other clubs of which I chaired 3 committies within those clubs... I can actually blabber on but I think I've gotten the point across.

Have you ever thought about majoring in something that requires some work?

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Yes, alot of college students have casual sex and I don't have a problem with that -I just choose not to engage in that sort of activity myself.

I guess "casual sex" is a relative term.

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I rarely (once every 2 month) drink or smoke weed and I don't envision myself as middleaged at 30. Other then those things you've gotten me down to the tee...not.

All things in moderation, I guess. Sounds like the typical college student to me.

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Is there anyone here who can offer actual advice?

Well you dug yourself a hole and you can either dig it deeper or try to fill it back in. Either way you are going to get covered in dirt, but whether you bury yourself or not is up to you.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[carbonmotion]

:)

[Edot]

Originally posted by Dippo
Not to beat a decaying horse, but love is much more than just feelings, respect, and admiration.

Of course if you really do care about them, you might as well tell them about each other.

NOTE: If you do tell them, don't expect to ever talk to them again, especially Sara.

I feel I have to object to some statements made here. Love is everything you listed. If it is not, please define it. Look it up in the dictionary, www.dictionary.com. Also, if you have these kinds of feeling for someone, what does being 18 or 85 have to do with anything. Your feelings toward someone may change slightly over the years because of physical, physiological, and sociological factors, but this does not mean the feelings someone is experiencing for someone cannot be defined as love. Furthermore, finding some who is right is not easy, but when you do find someone that you are in love with and is in love with you, why should you spend effort searching for someone else who you could love "more" or loves you "more" when you already have it. It seems like having a porsche or other car you really like, and then on the weekends searching used car lots for a ferrari. Spend that time with the one that you already love.

[Edot]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I'm not going to blame myself for this. It was a bad twist of fate. Somethings in life you just can't control. Seriously watch the movie Dr. Zhivago...

Just because you don't control it doesn't mean it is fate. Most people believe that everything is controlled and in fact already decided by successive causation even though the result is not known. However, saying that something is going to happen no matter what the cause is called fate. Some people believe in fate, but philosophically it doesn't make sense.

Sorry to go off topic.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[carbonmotion]

:)

[Dippo]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I went to dinner with Sara at Great Lakes Sea Food tonight at Ypsi. I told her everything from the beginning that happened during winter break. She asked me if I still loved her, I told her that I would split a mountain, walk on water just to be with her... for just one more second. I told her that I can't imagine how I would keep on breathing without her by myside. She asked me who it was -and I told her it was Liz. That was the point when she broke down because Liz and Sara and I all went to highschool together . Liz and Sara were good friends and I guess she has always felt that she lived in her shadow. She told me that it's her worest nightmare come true... I tried to explain to her how I felt but she just couldn't stop sobbing. I feel like I've been ripped to shreds right now, that my life is comming to end end. Even my dorm seems gloomy and depressing. Once when I was 8 years old, I feel in to a swimming pool at the req center. At that age I still have not learned to swim and I fell to the bottom of the pool like a stone, my lungs burning for oxygen, my brain in a state of utter despration as I descended helpessly in to my watery grave. I thought that was the worest experience in my life -this is far worse. I don't know what to do anymore.

Man, I am sorry to hear that things went badly, but at least you were honest, that is something isn't it?

Of course you never mentioned that Liz and Sara were friends, if I would have known that I would have suggested that you just get out ASAP and not speak a word.

Not to be mean, but you probably ruined their friendship too.

[nospleen]

I think you did the right and admiral thing by telling her. It may not seem like that now, but you will be a better person for it. Plus, this may show you that Sara is much more important to you than Liz! It may take almost losing her to see that she is all that matters. I have been in your position before, so I know how you feel. My Sara ended up being my wife, and I never regretted Liz. Good luck and keep us posted.

[Edot]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I went to dinner with Sara at Great Lakes Sea Food tonight at Ypsi. I told her everything from the beginning that happened during winter break. She asked me if I still loved her, I told her that I would split a mountain, walk on water just to be with her... for just one more second. I told her that I can't imagine how I would keep on breathing without her by myside. She asked me who it was -and I told her it was Liz. That was the point when she broke down because Liz and Sara and I all went to highschool together . Liz and Sara were good friends and I guess she has always felt that she lived in her shadow. She told me that it's her worest nightmare come true... I tried to explain to her how I felt but she just couldn't stop sobbing. I feel like I've been ripped to shreds right now, that my life is comming to end end. Even my dorm seems gloomy and depressing. Once when I was 8 years old, I feel in to a swimming pool at the req center. At that age I still have not learned to swim and I fell to the bottom of the pool like a stone, my lungs burning for oxygen, my brain in a state of utter despration as I descended helpessly in to my watery grave. I thought that was the worest experience in my life -this is far worse. I don't know what to do anymore.

Sorry to hear about your situation. That kind of relationship is something that is hard to break. Just remember not to abandon each other once the initial shock has subsided. Just remember to keep talking with each other so you can mend things. I have had bad experiences when people just flee from the whole relationship because of the shock. I am sure you have gone swimming since that incident when you were young, and I am sure swimming is different now because of that incident. But you didn't do so without learning how to "communicate" with the water. I hope things turn out well for you.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[Opteron]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I was 8 years old, I feel in to a swimming pool at the req center. At that age I still have not learned to swim and I fell to the bottom of the pool like a stone, my lungs burning for oxygen, my brain in a state of utter despration as I descended helpessly in to my watery grave. I thought that was the worest experience in my life -this is far worse. I don't know what to do anymore.

There are many corny things that could be said, but in your time of need I offer my condolences. Maybe it would have been "best to let sleeping dragons lie"

[vixapphire]

Originally posted by carbonmotion

I'll say this one more time... I'm not like that. I resent people who go sleeping around. If I was like that I wouldn't be so distressed as to post on this message board seeking advice. I'd be enjoying my whoring and scoring. Yes, alot of college students have casual sex and I don't have a problem with that -I just choose not to engage in that sort of activity myself.

umm, but you did choose to engage in that sort of activity, though, didn't you? or was your canoodle at home with the old flame something over which you had no control? you made the choice; now don't go getting all haughty when someone tries to make you see that in the overall scheme of things it probably won't matter much.

your garment-rending guilt trip on this board sounds more like it's about assuaging your feeling that you've let yourself down by being human. if you really feel that guilty about wronging either or both of these girls, the best thing you can do is break off both relationships without telling sara that you went home for holiday and sacked it up with your ex. you do understand how hurtful that will be to her if you tell her, don't you? how would you feel? if you were her, wouldn't you rather be broken up with for a "softer" reason, i.e. "i'm not ready to be in a relationship that's so committed b/c i'm only 19 and so are you...." wouldn't that be just as truthful, and far less hurtful? why do you want to saddle her with the feeling that it might be because she's somehow inadequate that you needed to go off and sleep with an ex-girlfriend first chance you were away from her? and if you don't think it's possible that she would on some level have that feeling, you don't know as much as you think you do.

but i'm done my bit; you're obviously going to make another choice and do your thing. while we all look forward to hearing how things go, and i for one hope for the best for all 3 of you, if it goes badly, think about what sara will have heard you say, not what you think you've said. regards.

[vixapphire]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I'm not going to blame myself for this.

not like that wasn't obvious to anyone reading your posts. your situation couldn't possibly be the result of your own conscious decisions! puh-leez...:rolleyes:

[vixapphire]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I went to dinner with Sara at Great Lakes Sea Food tonight at Ypsi. I told her everything from the beginning that happened during winter break. She asked me if I still loved her, I told her that I would split a mountain, walk on water just to be with her... for just one more second. I told her that I can't imagine how I would keep on breathing without her by myside. She asked me who it was -and I told her it was Liz. That was the point when she broke down because Liz and Sara and I all went to highschool together . Liz and Sara were good friends and I guess she has always felt that she lived in her shadow. She told me that it's her worest nightmare come true... I tried to explain to her how I felt but she just couldn't stop sobbing. I feel like I've been ripped to shreds right now, that my life is comming to end end. Even my dorm seems gloomy and depressing. Once when I was 8 years old, I feel in to a swimming pool at the req center. At that age I still have not learned to swim and I fell to the bottom of the pool like a stone, my lungs burning for oxygen, my brain in a state of utter despration as I descended helpessly in to my watery grave. I thought that was the worest experience in my life -this is far worse. I don't know what to do anymore.

hopefully you learned something from this. maybe honesty isn't always the best policy - isn't that what "white lies" are, after all? there will be many next times, so once you've resolved yourself to handling things differently going forward (starting with your fidelity to whom you're with), you'll be ready to move on. best of luck in your convalescence.

try reading my first post in this thread again; it might make you feel better. that was my intent, after all, because it wasn't difficult to see the above result coming.

[vixapphire]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
A ****storm is coming. You never get rewarded for doing the right thing. The world has no emprical system of rights or wrongs, instead it runs on pragmatism. ... I still firmly believe that I love both Sara and Liz with every might my heart has to offer.

hopefully, when everything's died down in a few days or a few weeks, you'll be able to see clearly where the mistakes were made and take your lessons from it. if you are able to remain even friends or acquainted on good terms with either or both the girls, consider that a bonus. but you'd do well by yourself not to have any expectations in that regard, and rather take the lessons you learn this time into your next relationship(s) down the road.

to "live and learn" can be pretty tough sometimes! best,

vixapphire

[MongoTheGeek]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I went to dinner with Sara at Great Lakes Sea Food tonight at Ypsi. I told her everything from the beginning that happened during winter break. She asked me if I still loved her, I told her that I would split a mountain, walk on water just to be with her... for just one more second. I told her that I can't imagine how I would keep on breathing without her by myside. She asked me who it was -and I told her it was Liz. That was the point when she broke down because Liz and Sara and I all went to highschool together . Liz and Sara were good friends and I guess she has always felt that she lived in her shadow. She told me that it's her worest nightmare come true... I tried to explain to her how I felt but she just couldn't stop sobbing.

If you want to get back with Sara it will take some big kissing up. (Think 'Ed' here.) Don't try it with words unless you are seriously eloquent and a heck of lot smarter than you've acted.

On the other hand this could make a hell of a sociology paper.

[carbonmotion]

:)

[Dippo]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I was feeling really sad last night and had on one to talk to. I called Liz, she was the only person I could think of that I could trust talking to. We talked till five this morning and finally she said Sara be damned, if it means giving up her friendship with Sara she will do it to be with me. I'm even more confused now then ever... She will also be home tomorrow to make matters more complicated.

Well it sounds like Liz doesn't mind, that's good news.

Just hang on to Liz and look for someone else to fill in the time that you have free :)

[Counterfit]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I was feeling really sad last night and had on one to talk to. I called Liz, she was the only person I could think of that I could trust talking to. We talked till five this morning and finally she said Sara be damned, if it means giving up her friendship with Sara she will do it to be with me. I'm even more confused now then ever... She will also be home tomorrow to make matters more complicated. Actually, I think that might be a good thing, as you know she really cares about you too. You (un?)lucky bastard :rolleyes: