Complain all you want about Wintel...IBM makes some...

[SiliconAddict]

We just got our latest batch of IBM T40 laptops in Thursday. We recently migrated from Dell laptops to IBM and I'm struck by the quality of these suckers. Well constructed with innovative designs slapped into the system here and there. Example: The latest systems we have, have a built in motion sensor, that you can customize, If the laptop accelerates at a certain speed, such as a drop, it stops and locks the hard drive to avoid a HD crash. The system's HD bay even has built in shock absorbers in the event the unthinkable happens.


IBM X40


14.1" display
Intel Pentium M 1.3Ghz
512MB RAM
40GB 5400RPM hard drive
Built in CF II slot. Read: IBM microdrive support.
Removable DVD drive (Upgradable to CD or DVD RW or R drive.)
1" Thick and 4.9LBS



The best part? I've stress tested these laptops. 3 hours minimum and that's with audio on full and playing a DVD, but I've gotten 4 to 4.5 hours off of one of these bad boys.

http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/IBMLaptops1.jpg


http://home.comcast.net/~jonnormand/IBMLaptops2.jpg



My point since this is after all a Mac forum. Anyone else think it would be a sweet idea if IBM's and Apple's R&D teams collaborated in a joint laptop development project? *drools*

[edesignuk]

I love Thinkpads, best (x86) laptops on the market IMO (we just got some T41's in...hmmmmm :D).

[tpjunkie]

Yeah, they make all around solid x86 laptops, my college has a deal with them for incoming freshmen to get them at a great price through the school :D ...however, i opted for a powerbook instead (and was duly annoyed when the 800/1000 models came out 2 months after i started school)

[Krizoitz]

Originally posted by tpjunkie
Yeah, they make all around solid x86 laptops, my college has a deal with them for incoming freshmen to get them at a great price through the school :D ...however, i opted for a powerbook instead (and was duly annoyed when the 800/1000 models came out 2 months after i started school)

Good quality probably but there are still two problems

1) Windows

2) Design

I'm sorry, but now that Apple has shown that a laptop doesn't have to look like a cheap piece of black plastic, i just can't stomache the idea of using one of those laptops. I know that performance should be more important than style, but unless the stylish computer can't do what I need it to, i'd rather have it even if its a little underpowered.

[Phatpat]

I agree that all windows machines are not created equal. I even think Dells are pretty decent.

Unfortunately, nothing can compare to OS X. Once you go Mac you'll never go back. :cool:

[tiktokfx]

PowerBook Duo 2400.

The result of Apple and IBM collaboration on design.

[tiktokfx]

Or rather, just PowerBook 2400. They didn't call them Duos.

http://www.powerbookguy.com/pictures/2400c.gif

[strider42]

I got a 2 ghz t30 laptop at work not that long ago. its slow for every day tasks. I don't doubt for number crunching, it would be great, but for every day stuff, you know, like opening my email client and things like that, my 233 mhz iMac is a lot, lot faster. But thats a windows problem. As far as the laptop itself, its not pad, fairly well designed. the mouse button stuff is cumbersome, though I actually kind of like the eraser tip pointing device. its pretty well constructed, but battery life is pretty average at best and its not particularly thin or anything. some of the materials are really cheap (nitpicky, but the bar under the monitor where it lights up to show things like the battery light is this cheap self adhesive film that is obviously going to come off in the not too distant future). Pretty good machines, but not enough to really impress me with anything.

[ExoticFish]

i've always called the thinkpads the powerbooks of the pc world, i love thinkpads, incredibly well built (used titanium well before the powerbooks)

[rhpenguin]

thinkpads are ugly as sin.. great hardware inside though.. ive actually got a thinkpad that i threw linux somewhere around my apartment..

just refuses to die..

[carbonmotion]

Originally posted by rhpenguin
thinkpads are ugly as sin.. great hardware inside though.. ive actually got a thinkpad that i threw linux somewhere around my apartment..

just refuses to die..

Agreed, although for corprate use its ok to be ugly I guess.

[carbonmotion]

"IBM's X40 ThinkPad also features an extended battery life. A single system battery provides about 3.5 hours of standard use. " I got that from the http://www.internetnews.com/bus-news/article.php/3308621
website. I dunno man, 3.5 hours is about what a 15 inch gets and the CPU is faster but not outragesly ...its a 1.4ghz Pentium-M... for $1700...which is cheaper then the 15 inch powerbook I guess... but your missing out on the extra screen real estate and some other stuff... I dunno, probably still a better money/power ratio for companies I'd imagine. The organization that I do computer work for has compaq laptops to loan out to needy families... omg, I lost count the amount of times I had to reformat the harddrive on those Armadas... Windows XP is a virus/bug/spyware magnet.

[Dippo]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Windows XP is a virus/bug/spyware magnet.

It does seem like a lot of windows users seems to download stuff that installs viruses or spyware on their machines.

I know most people wouldn't want to blame Microsoft for this but I think they could provide some basic protection against this stuff like is afforded in anti-virus software but I guess MS just doesn't care.

Back on Topic:
I have never used an IBM laptop, but I never have liked their pointer device but I guess that is just preference.

[MrMacMan]

How about this...

Apples Design Team... + Apples Hardware Team + IBM's Pricing Team...

I mean the prices are just outrageous.


If Apple makes a generic computer like the thinkpad, I would be happy, if it costs the same and has the same apple components I don't need Titanium... or Aluminum.

give me a generic case, good reliabality and parts and give me the OS that I want and thats a perfect machine.

[funkywhat2]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
I dunno man, 3.5 hours is about what a 15 inch gets and the CPU is faster but not outragesly ...its a 1.4ghz Pentium-M....

i thought the pentium m was faster than the p4m. and the p4m is a hell of a lot faster than anything motorola makes.

[jefhatfield]

after much of the 1990s with terrible gear, ibm definitely got their act together

even though they look ugly by today's standards, they were not so bad looking compared to other pc laptops just a few years ago...anyway, i would rather have a solidly built ugly ibm than a pretty pc laptop that is too fragile

if money were no object and i had to have a rugged machine, a panasonic toughbook would be great

but for looks and ruggedness, nothing comes close to the laptops apple has been making...apple could take the easy road and make an ugly machine with a mediocre operating system but then if they did that, there would be nothing that makes a mac standout so much

when you are a company with an installed base of only 2% percent of all the computers worldwide, then it's a good idea to have something stand out in as many ways as possible

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by funkywhat2
i thought the pentium m was faster than the p4m. and the p4m is a hell of a lot faster than anything motorola makes.

the pentium m is faster mhz for mhz, ghz for ghz, than the pentium 4 and if there ever was a 2 ghz pentium m, it would be by far the fastest mobile in the world

intel has really scored a hit with the pentium m processor and its low power operation and incredible speed

[themadchemist]

Originally posted by MrMacman
How about this...

Apples Design Team... + Apples Hardware Team + IBM's Pricing Team...

I mean the prices are just outrageous.


If Apple makes a generic computer like the thinkpad, I would be happy, if it costs the same and has the same apple components I don't need Titanium... or Aluminum.

give me a generic case, good reliabality and parts and give me the OS that I want and thats a perfect machine.

I don't know, I just don't see apple putting out a computer without spectacular industrial design. It's part of what people associate with the company and its products, and that kind of association can be quite important.

[carbonmotion]

Originally posted by themadchemist
I don't know, I just don't see apple putting out a computer without spectacular industrial design. It's part of what people associate with the company and its products, and that kind of association can be quite important. Agreed...the only reasons I buy apple

...pretty design
great looking lcd
tends to have less problems then compaq
great software/osx
hands free operation

[Les Kern]

I agree on the quality of IBM's. Wish I'd bought one of those instead of this OmniBook from HP. What a peice of crap. ThinkPads are like the Mercedes of the PC world. I'll be needing a PC notebook soon, so IBM it is.

[rhpenguin]

Originally posted by carbonmotion
Agreed...the only reasons I buy apple

...pretty design
great looking lcd
tends to have less problems then compaq
great software/osx
hands free operation

Hey now... I work for Compaq doing tech support. For the most part the problem with Compaq computers is their users. They are relitavely solid overpriced machines.

But even though im doing Compaq support, give me a Mac anyday...

[IndyGopher]

Originally posted by rhpenguin
Hey now... I work for Compaq doing tech support. For the most part the problem with Compaq computers is their users. They are relitavely solid overpriced machines.

But even though im doing Compaq support, give me a Mac anyday...
While I would agree that Compaq's business lines, like DeskPros, Prosignias, Proliants, Armada's, etc are nice machines, the Presarios are just plain garbage. Seriously. Seriously underpowered power supplies is the biggest fault, followed by their inane insistence on not using CPU fans has them ranked #2 on the units sold/units brought in for repair list. Emachines have a higher service rate, but the ONLY problem I have ever had with an Emachine (other than lightning damage, I don't hold manufacturers responsible for acts of God) is failed power supplies.
The part I don't understand is Presarios use decent parts for the most part, like Microstar motherboards.. but they still fail when you put them in a Presario. (Blame the power supply again) If you have an Emachine or a Presario, I would seriously consider going out and buying a new power supply just as general practice. Save yourself the unexpected downtown and grief. I suggest the same, by the way, for the minitower HP Pavilions.

[Earendil]

Who says the Thinkpads are less expensive? I own a G4 1.25ghz 15.2" PB. Specs are as follows-
80GB HD 4200
512RAM
SuperDrive (CD-RW/DVD-R)
Wireless extreme (b/g)
Bluetooth
USB 2.0
FireWire 400/800
Gigbit Ethernet
64VRAM (Radeon 9600 mobile)
wieght = 5.5
Fiber Optic Backlit Keyboard

Total for me 2599, after EDU, 2299 (gotta love the edu discount :D)

I just build to order a T41 series with a 14" (don't see a bigger option) screen with the specs of my own Computer.

80GB 4200rpm Hard Drive
ThinkPad 8X DVD-ROM Ultrabay Slim Drive (Is this the equivalent to a superdrive?)
32VRAM (only option)
IBM 11a/b/g Wireless LAN Mini PCI Adapter
BlueTooth
512MB PC2700 CL2.5 DDR SDRAM SODIMM
USB 2.0
Gigabit Ethernet (had to add)
Weight 4.9 + additions
LED light on screen to eluminate keyboard

Total Price
$2,553.50

(help me out if I am configuring this wrong, I'm not starting a war, this is just something I've been meaning to do for a long time)

The differences I see are-
PowerBook vs Thinkpad T41
G4 1.25 vs 1.3 Pentium M (I think the M wins here, right?)
15.2" vs 14"
USB 2.0 + FireWire800 vs USB2.0 (couldn't find anything about FW on the thinkpads, is this true?)
64VRAM vs 32VRAM (am I correct in thinking 32 is as high as you go in the thinkpad? I couldn't find an option for more)
Backlit Keyboard(:D) vs LED light on screen
Sexy vs Plastic Brick

So am I comparing these things wrong? How much faster is the Intel M 1.3ghz chip vs the pos 1.25Moto chip?
No, you can't get a cheap Mac. But I've always believed, and I think I've proved to myself once again, that Apple just ships more features and cutting edge tech with the standard PB. Yes you can get a faster proc, but you have to add wireless/gigabit ethernet/ect all things that come standard on a Powerbook.
Yes, Apples are Expensive, but feature for feature I don't think the gap is as wide as people claim.

Tyler
Earendil

ps
you'll note I left shipped software out of the equation :rolleyes:

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Earendil
Who says the Thinkpads are less expensive? I own a G4 1.25ghz 15.2" PB. Specs are as follows-
80GB HD 4200
512RAM
SuperDrive (CD-RW/DVD-R)
Wireless extreme (b/g)
Bluetooth
USB 2.0
FireWire 400/800
Gigbit Ethernet
64VRAM (Radeon 9600 mobile)
wieght = 5.5
Fiber Optic Backlit Keyboard

Total for me 2599, after EDU, 2299 (gotta love the edu discount :D)

I just build to order a T41 series with a 14" (don't see a bigger option) screen with the specs of my own Computer.

80GB 4200rpm Hard Drive
ThinkPad 8X DVD-ROM Ultrabay Slim Drive (Is this the equivalent to a superdrive?)
32VRAM (only option)
IBM 11a/b/g Wireless LAN Mini PCI Adapter
BlueTooth
512MB PC2700 CL2.5 DDR SDRAM SODIMM
USB 2.0
Gigabit Ethernet (had to add)
Weight 4.9 + additions
LED light on screen to eluminate keyboard

Total Price
$2,553.50

(help me out if I am configuring this wrong, I'm not starting a war, this is just something I've been meaning to do for a long time)

The differences I see are-
PowerBook vs Thinkpad T41
G4 1.25 vs 1.3 Pentium M (I think the M wins here, right?)
15.2" vs 14"
USB 2.0 + FireWire800 vs USB2.0 (couldn't find anything about FW on the thinkpads, is this true?)
64VRAM vs 32VRAM (am I correct in thinking 32 is as high as you go in the thinkpad? I couldn't find an option for more)
Backlit Keyboard(:D) vs LED light on screen
Sexy vs Plastic Brick

So am I comparing these things wrong? How much faster is the Intel M 1.3ghz chip vs the pos 1.25Moto chip?
No, you can't get a cheap Mac. But I've always believed, and I think I've proved to myself once again, that Apple just ships more features and cutting edge tech with the standard PB. Yes you can get a faster proc, but you have to add wireless/gigabit ethernet/ect all things that come standard on a Powerbook.
Yes, Apples are Expensive, but feature for feature I don't think the gap is as wide as people claim.

Tyler
Earendil

ps
you'll note I left shipped software out of the equation :rolleyes:

two things...first, if you look at thinkpads in general compared to apple made laptops, the thinkpads are cheaper...try some other configurations

second, the pentium m is the best mobile pc chip on the market and is way faster than other pc chips or the G4 chip used in mac laptops...and the pentium m uses less power...on the issues of mobile processors, the pentium m is the best in the industry

...and as a rule, i prefer motorola, ibm, and amd chips to intel's offerings most of the time

...and for its time, before the pentium m, the transmeta crusoe was the battery life champion and a great mobile processor for small laptops

[Earendil]

Originally posted by jefhatfield
two things...first, if you look at thinkpads in general compared to apple made laptops, the thinkpads are cheaper...try some other configurations

My point wasn't that "in general" Thinkpads are cheaper. "In general" the whole PC market is less expensive. What I was trying to point out is that if you add up the features (aside from the proc), the Thinkpad comes realy close to the same price, and is still missing things like a 64mb Video card, and FW800, and 1.2 inches of real-estate. Is there a different class notebook beside the IBM Thinkpad T41 that holds up better to the PB feature to feature for less money?

second, the pentium m is the best mobile pc chip on the market and is way faster than other pc chips or the G4 chip used in mac laptops...and the pentium m uses less power...on the issues of mobile processors, the pentium m is the best in the industry

This is what I thought. So I suppose it's a trade off, proc/battery for features. But once the G5PBs come out, That issue should go away as well. So as long as you want what the PB has to offer, you wouldn't appear to be any less expensive and comparable option on the PC side of the board.

Someone please correct me. This was just my quick observation at the IBM.com store. I have a number of PC nerd friends all going to college and getting notebooks. They all galk at the price of my PB, but at the same time they don't have as big a HD, 64vram, wireless-g ect ect, all things that raise the price a great deal.

Tyler
Earendil

ps
Does Apple have the hindge/closure lock on the powerbooks patened or something?!! It's such a smooth and sweet design, and no other laptop I have seen has emulated it yet, they all have hooks that are fully exposed.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Earendil
Originally posted by jefhatfield
two things...first, if you look at thinkpads in general compared to apple made laptops, the thinkpads are cheaper...try some other configurations

My point wasn't that "in general" Thinkpads are cheaper. "In general" the whole PC market is less expensive. What I was trying to point out is that if you add up the features (aside from the proc), the Thinkpad comes realy close to the same price, and is still missing things like a 64mb Video card, and FW800, and 1.2 inches of real-estate. Is there a different class notebook beside the IBM Thinkpad T41 that holds up better to the PB feature to feature for less money?

second, the pentium m is the best mobile pc chip on the market and is way faster than other pc chips or the G4 chip used in mac laptops...and the pentium m uses less power...on the issues of mobile processors, the pentium m is the best in the industry

This is what I thought. So I suppose it's a trade off, proc/battery for features. But once the G5PBs come out, That issue should go away as well. So as long as you want what the PB has to offer, you wouldn't appear to be any less expensive and comparable option on the PC side of the board.

Someone please correct me. This was just my quick observation at the IBM.com store. I have a number of PC nerd friends all going to college and getting notebooks. They all galk at the price of my PB, but at the same time they don't have as big a HD, 64vram, wireless-g ect ect, all things that raise the price a great deal.

Tyler
Earendil

ps
Does Apple have the hindge/closure lock on the powerbooks patened or something?!! It's such a smooth and sweet design, and no other laptop I have seen has emulated it yet, they all have hooks that are fully exposed.

there are other ibm lines with big screens which are cheaper than the ibm laptop you chose to configure...that being said, there is no ibm laptop i would choose over the powerbook line

by the time a G5 laptop comes out...and that may not be until mwsf 2005, the centrino will be going so fast that it won't matter...centrino will probably be around 3 ghz then and being able to operate without sucking battery life...transmeta is working on a superfast processor which can get great battery times and i think this is the company to watch in terms of mobile processors

perhaps one day, powerbooks will come down in price to the level of pc laptops and also be as fast as them...but i think it will take a gargantuan effort from apple, motorola (if we continue on with the G4 for powerbooks), and/or ibm (if we decide to go with the G5 chip for laptops)...in order to catch up with pc laptops

when the G3 powerbook came out in the 90s, it rivaled pc laptop prices and pc laptop speeds and it was so fantastic that many pc users wanted it

...when the tibook came out, the pc users loved its design but could not stomach the idea of having a 400 mhz processor powering the thing...i think the enormous 17 inch powerbook amazed pc laptop users but then again, the speed underwhelmed them

...that being said, i still think the best laptops made since the late 90s have all been powerbooks and my little old clamshell ibook is the very definition of cool:D ok, not cheap or fast, but still cool ;)

[coopdog]

They look like plastic generic ****.

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by coopdog
They look like plastic generic ****.

take the reliability of ibm, the service of dell (i was a dell tech), and the design of apple and then they would be great

i think alien laptops are great, but then again, we are talking about super expensive so that does not count in this context

edit: they (alienware) have some scaled down models now so they can start as low as $1742 dollars...that's good news...those things used to go for three grand (starting) and up...but the top configured model starts around three grand and i am sure one can be set up to cost a lot more

[Earendil]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jefhatfield
there are other ibm lines with big screens which are cheaper than the ibm laptop you chose to configure...

Could you give me a name or link me? I am very interested in comparing two similar laptop lines. As a college student my mission work is almost exclusivly Laptop conversion.

by the time a G5 laptop comes out...and that may not be until mwsf 2005, the centrino will be going so fast that it won't matter...centrino will probably be around 3 ghz then and being able to operate without sucking battery life...

Not going to arugue that because I don't know as much about the Pentium M as I do the Pentium 3/4.
the new chips by IBM that will become the G5 look pretty good though. I can't back up the claims by the reporters with my own working knowledge of chips, but they say it'll blow past Intel. even if it doesn't "blow past them", even topping them would be close enough.

Does the Pentium M ignore the "mhz myth" ? Does it actually succede in pulling through tasks as well as a G5 at the same clock speed?

transmeta is working on a superfast processor which can get great battery times and i think this is the company to watch in terms of mobile processors

Could you link me on that too? It osunds interesting.

*snip*

...that being said, i still think the best laptops made since the late 90s have all been powerbooks and my little old clamshell ibook is the very definition of cool:D ok, not cheap or fast, but still cool ;)

AGREED :D

Tyler
Earendil

[jefhatfield]

Originally posted by Earendil
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jefhatfield
there are other ibm lines with big screens which are cheaper than the ibm laptop you chose to configure...

Could you give me a name or link me? I am very interested in comparing two similar laptop lines. As a college student my mission work is almost exclusivly Laptop conversion.

by the time a G5 laptop comes out...and that may not be until mwsf 2005, the centrino will be going so fast that it won't matter...centrino will probably be around 3 ghz then and being able to operate without sucking battery life...

Not going to arugue that because I don't know as much about the Pentium M as I do the Pentium 3/4.
the new chips by IBM that will become the G5 look pretty good though. I can't back up the claims by the reporters with my own working knowledge of chips, but they say it'll blow past Intel. even if it doesn't "blow past them", even topping them would be close enough.

Does the Pentium M ignore the "mhz myth" ? Does it actually succede in pulling through tasks as well as a G5 at the same clock speed?

transmeta is working on a superfast processor which can get great battery times and i think this is the company to watch in terms of mobile processors

Could you link me on that too? It osunds interesting.

*snip*

...that being said, i still think the best laptops made since the late 90s have all been powerbooks and my little old clamshell ibook is the very definition of cool:D ok, not cheap or fast, but still cool ;)

AGREED :D

Tyler
Earendil

every chance i get i go to bookstores and check out laptop magazine and CPU magazine (computer power user magazine) and from what i can recollect, the new transmeta processor in development will be able to do its taks through software instructions as well as chip architecture on all sizes of laptops...the current transmeta crusoe works well with smaller screened laptops

as for ibm, as a student, i take it you probably won't (have to) have intense gaming power in a laptop so ibm laptops starting well under eight hundred dollars can be then upped with more ram and combo drive and you can get a decent machine for a thousand or eleven hundred with tax...but realize those, or any other pc maker, won't give you their thinnest and lightest offerings at those prices

as for a link, you have to navigate through www.ibm.com/homeoffice site and look at the laptop lines within the thinkpads like the G series, the R series, the T series thin and light, and the X series thin and light

i think toshiba also makes great sturdy machines

laptop magazine rated the best of the bunch in laptops this year...for a multimedia desktop replacement, the 17" inch lcd toshiba won the award, for the average sized machine the sony vaio took the honors, and for the ultra small traveling businessperson's machine, the fujitsu subcompact won

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by rhpenguin
Hey now... I work for Compaq doing tech support. For the most part the problem with Compaq computers is their users. They are relitavely solid overpriced machines.

But even though im doing Compaq support, give me a Mac anyday...

No offense rhpenguin but from my experience Armada’s are total junk. At least that was the case about 4 years ago. I am NOT kidding when I say we had a tech out twice a week for all of 98-99. We had, at the time, aprox 60 Compaq Armada’s in our office and the pointer stick on those things died at a rate of 2 per week. Occasionally we could get by, plugging in an external mouse and letting the user use that until the system was repaired. But every so often the mouse drift that occurred would pull the pointer, when using the external mouse, into the corner of the screen rendering the laptop useless. In addition to that we had a smattering of bad motherboards, bad hard drives, bad video cards, and bad memory. The entire spectrum of computer problems. What was even more perplexing was the POS those Compaq DeskPro 2000 266Mhz systems were. Usually desktops are pretty solid systems. We had problems with these things at least twice per month, typically with bad system boards.
In 2000 we moved to Dell Optiplex’s for our desktops. Since that time. I think we’ve had issues with 2 out of a 80 desktops. The laptops have been another matter with failed hard drives but since there is little dell can do with failed hard drives I don’t blame them, or Compaq, for that. Simply put even if Compaq/HP offered to stock out office with free hardware I wouldn’t touch that office with a 10 foot cattle prod. The amount of lost productivity because of those POS’s had to be astronomical. Now maybe Compaq has cleaned up their act since that time but I’m just relaying my experience, and that experience has tainted me from ever touching a Compaq ever again.

PS- I won’t even mention my wonderful 3 year excursion owning a Compaq Presario laptop? 8 repairs in 3 years. Suffice it to say. I’m NOT a Compaq fan.

[SiliconAddict]

Originally posted by Dippo

Back on Topic:
I have never used an IBM laptop, but I never have liked their pointer device but I guess that is just preference.

FYI. This model comes with dule pointers. Both the touchpoint that is built into the keyboard and the touchpad that is below the keyboard. Software allows you to turn off the touchpad or touchpoint if you dpon't want to use it.