computer users, their intelligence and lack there of

[AlphaTech]

Over the past few days, I have been faced with more rampant stupidity by end users then in the past (in the same time frame).

I know how peecee users claim that they are soooo ****** intelligent because of this, that or the other thing. I have come to see that end users, and anyone that doesn't rate as at least a moderate level of a geek, are basically idiots. Some of them couldn't find their a$$ (with their hands) if they sat on their hands.

Mac users on the other hand (mostly at least) know enough to not ***** up their systems (for the most part) and understand at least how extensions can conflict and how to backtrack and do at least basic trouble shooting before calling for help. That's not to say that some of them rate the same as above mentioned peecee users, but on the average, Mac users are brighter bulbs.

Thus the poll... rate how you consider the average computer end user by platform. Use your experience of non-geeks please, since geeks know more then the average user.

[Choppaface]

*just has to say that he loves the ignore feature of the board*

[irmongoose]

almost all the non-geek PC users have no idea what they're using.. I am absolutely sick of people saying

Clueless PC user: "I don't like mac, because it's not as good as IBM"

Me: "You mean Windows..."

Clueless PC user: "No, I don't like Windows either.. that's why I use IBM."

They're usually the same people who go to their teacher and say

Clueless PC user: "I left my notebook here."
And they point at their notebook.
"Do you know where it is?"

Teacher: "Um... you're pointing at it."

Clueless PC user: "Oh okay, thank you. Bye."



:rolleyes:




irmongoose

[britboy]

I don't know if it's generally true, but from what i've seen most mac users use a mac because they know what they're buying (ie. what they can do on a computer).

A fair amount of those buying wintels are doing so because they've heard of this term 'computer', and want to know if they can reproduce Final Fantasy (the movie) within a week :rolleyes:

And choppaface, by responding, you're clearly not ignoring. (go ahead, ignore me. I couldn't care less)

[sparkleytone]

really it isnt the user as much as it is the OS. it is MUCH easier to do something that may seem intuitive to a person and screw up windows than it is to do the same thing in a Mac OS.

[Mr. Anderson]

I agree with sparkleytone, where the OS is what's causing PC users more trouble. However, Mac users can have there off day too, but atleast its usually much easier to fix a Mac than a PC

[Rower_CPU]

Human beings are human beings, and we all are less than perfect...

Any computer user can hose a machine (PC or Mac) in an astonishingly short period of time...Macs are just easier to fix.:)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Human beings are human beings, and we all are less than perfect...

Any computer user can hose a machine (PC or Mac) in an astonishingly short period of time...Macs are just easier to fix.:)

Speak for yourself human... :D :p

Mac's are easier to fix, because it takes a hell of a lot more to really 'hose' the system then with peecee's. You delete just one file (on purpose or by accident) and the system is f*cked. Do that with a Mac, and you can probably have it back up and running in a few minutes (if not less). With the peecee, chances are you will have to blow out everything and reinstall the entire set again. If you accidentily install incorrect drivers on a peecee, you are SOL. Do that on a Mac, start up without extensions live, remove the stuff and restart the computer... back to happy Mac...

[King Cobra]

Don't forget that Apple completely redesigned their operating system from the rather buggy OS 9 (or Classic). Apple started creating OS X back in 1996 or 1997, if I am not wrong. And with the on/off days of OS 9 I had sort of a 50/50 on my computers. With OS X (and if you were lucky enough to get some cheap RAM :)) there seems to be extremely limited errors.

Example: Our old friend the force quit.
In OS 9 if you tried to change an application that may have stalled, you would have to force quit. The message for it was scary, black and white, and not always successful. In OS X you get a more friendly version of Force Quit and you should be successful. You can even change back and forth between applications.

As for how intelligent peecee users and Mac users are, I think the major problem with peecee users is how they ramble about speed and power with their computers, when they are holding back how F!!!!! up their Windoze OS really is.

And WTF does Windoze still need some stupid file for managing memory above 640KB? That is why some peecee users can't make bootable CDs all the time, because that file is also necessary.

There are lots of other reasons for why peecee users just need to see the light. The only reason I would support peecee is for applications I ABSOLUTELY NEED that only run on Windoze. (The last time I checked, however, my number for that was zero. :D)
__________________

Fear the King.

[macktheknife]

I don't really know what the correlation between a computer user's intelligence and their platform choice is, but I can still make generalizations. Mac users tend to be more savvy, since they appreciate the both the technological superiority of a Mac as well as Window’s shortcomings, although I have to admit that some of the most computer whizzes I know are all PC users.

Anyhow, the typical PC tend to treat their computers like an appliance, and they typically don’t do much more than just surf, type, and maybe play a game here and there. The PC users that really annoy me, however, are those macho types who don’t really know anything about computers but who are hardheaded and opinionated. They typically throw out phrases like “Macs suck” or “PCs are cheaper” without much thought. When pressed for the rationale of their opinions, they give the basic answers that underscore their ignorance: “Macs can’t play games”, “No software for Macs”, “Windows is superior because it’s compatible with everything”, “PCs are faster.” They used to say Macs are “toys” or that “a real computer don’t need graphics” back in the days when everyone pounded on their IBM beige boxes running DOS. But of course, they stopped saying that when Windows 95 came out.

Anyhow, when you tell they about the lower total cost of ownership of a Mac, OS X’s superiority in multitasking and its powerful UNIX roots, and the megahertz myth, they respond with a wide-eyed confused look before dismissing your points altogether with more “PCs are cheaper/faster” type of arguments. :rolleyes:

People always assert that PCs are better since they are more compatible software. Well, imagine if the roads were re-paved the next day so that only Ford Pintos can drive easily on them. Do we start saying that BMWs “suck” because they can’t drive just as easily on the new roads? Do we say they “suck” because they have a higher price tag? Heck no! Compatibility has nothing to do with innate superiority. Just because a Ford Pinto can drive on the new roads more easily does not change the inherent technological superiority of a marvelously engineered BMW. Same thing with computers: Just because more software is compatible with a PC doesn’t make a Mac inferior technologically.

I know that I’m preaching to the converted, but it’s kind of cathartic for me to vent the frustration I encounter in PC-land (we use Compaqs equipped with Windows NT at work) day in day out.

[alex_ant]

I don't know about intelligence, because statistically the average Mac user should be about on par with the average PC user IQ-wise. But certainly, in terms of annoyance, the average Mac *zealot* is just as annoying as the average PC zealot. I yearn for a world where terms like "M$," "Pcheese," and yes, also "Crapple" and "Crapintosh" are no longer used. How about we just be objective and use whatever the hell we want to use, damnit?

Alex

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by macktheknife
I know that I’m preaching to the converted, but it’s kind of cathartic for me to vent the frustration I encounter in PC-land (we use Compaqs equipped with Windows NT at work) day in day out.

My god... how can you deal with compaq crap all day long???

I feel lucky that we only have about 30-40 peecee's at the office. We have about 250 Mac's. We are moving every peecee with win2k, at least until the testing of winhexpee is completed. I would wager that we will be rolling out OS X before we roll out hexpee though. :D

I might be making a trip to NJ in the near future to check out the xp lab... since my boss made the suggestion that I should go. After I get my Apple portable certification, I will make arrangements to visit that lab. I just don't look forward to the up to 5 hour drive to get there or back again.

[spuncan]

one shortcut only Windows users would design ctrl-alt-l (locks ur keyboard in windows) thats all.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by spuncan
one shortcut only Windows users would design ctrl-alt-l (locks ur keyboard in windows) thats all.

Leave it to windblows to come up with that...

Something else that blows about peecee's... IF you set a 'power-on' password and forget what it is, you have a new door stop. You can't even power it up and get into the bios to reset it... My boss forgot what she set her's to (she has two peecee's and a TiBook, guess which she uses most... :D) and now the computer is completely useless (more then before).

[Unix Is Easy?]

Originally posted by alex_ant
I don't know about intelligence, because statistically the average Mac user should be about on par with the average PC user IQ-wise. But certainly, in terms of annoyance, the average Mac *zealot* is just as annoying as the average PC zealot. I yearn for a world where terms like "M$," "Pcheese," and yes, also "Crapple" and "Crapintosh" are no longer used. How about we just be objective and use whatever the hell we want to use, damnit?

Alex

Yes I agree but it will never happen, there's too many ignorant people in the world...

If it wasn't for the amount of posts some of the zealots make on this forum I would use the ignore feature. :(

[Unix Is Easy?]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Leave it to windblows to come up with that...

Something else that blows about peecee's... IF you set a 'power-on' password and forget what it is, you have a new door stop. You can't even power it up and get into the bios to reset it... My boss forgot what she set her's to (she has two peecee's and a TiBook, guess which she uses most... :D) and now the computer is completely useless (more then before).

I've helped someone out that did this before, reset the bios jumper on the motherboard. Very simple.

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Unix Is Easy?


I've helped someone out that did this before, reset the bios jumper on the motherboard. Very simple.

If you can find it on the system... considering it's an old hp system and all that crap.

[Unix Is Easy?]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


If you can find it on the system... considering it's an old hp system and all that crap.

All the motherboards I've tried (one gigabyte, one abit, one alienware something) but if you pull the battery out and put it back in (while the system is off, heh) it will reset the bios.

[eyelikeart]

I think most peecee users are afraid of Macs mainly because they don't have a clue about them. People by nature are afraid of things they don't know or understand, and therefore dismiss them in their minds rather than to cause confusion or dismay.

Most peecee users I know don't know ***** about how computers work technically. They don't know much at all to be honest. There are some who know how to hack Windoze & fix stuff, but for the most part that's a very small %.

Most Mac users that I've come into contact with know how to work on their machines. It almost seems second nature how to troubleshoot Mac OS, and most people who use Macs know how to fix them in many cases.

It really makes perfect sense when u consider how ass-backwards Windoze is as compared to Mac OS....no wonder why so many confused peecee users...;)

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by Unix Is Easy?


Yes I agree but it will never happen, there's too many ignorant people in the world...

If it wasn't for the amount of posts some of the zealots make on this forum I would use the ignore feature. :(

exactly.....if one side finally dropped their prejudices it might actually happen though....but it can take centuries for people to drop prejudices

[mmmdreg]

PCUser: Macs suck...my PC got a virus the other day and stopped working...
MacUser: Why do they suck? So what happened to your computer..
PCUser: They're Macs! Actually, the modem fell out of my Dell so I knocked it on the side and it worked again after a reformat...
MacUser: <Walks away>
so on and so forth...

I find that PC users have way more problems but are just so ignorant that they think that their problems are common and Macs suck for no reason or something...

[basic]

i'd love to know what the point is in pc bashing on here? seems a little strange to me.

[jefhatfield]

as a techie, i will always run into clueless end users who know almost nothing but they will always know something odd that i don't about their machine

it is kind of like a foreigner learning english for the first time and they will chance upon a word no one else uses, but they will take to it in every other sentence...he he

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by basic
i'd love to know what the point is in pc bashing on here? seems a little strange to me.

Alright newbie... This is a Mac site, so peecee's are fair game. I created this thread to get other people's input about the intelligence level of the average user, BOTH Mac and peecee (see the poll above :rolleyes: ).

If you can't handle us slamming into peecee's then this is NOT the site for you.

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by AlphaTech


Alright newbie... This is a Mac site, so peecee's are fair game. I created this thread to get other people's input about the intelligence level of the average user, BOTH Mac and peecee (see the poll above :rolleyes: ).

If you can't handle us slamming into peecee's then this is NOT the site for you.
Hehehehe, go AlphaTech! :D
Basic, u read the domain name right? 'Macrumors.com', did that not tip you off that most here are in favour of macs????
:confused:

[sturm375]

If you are talking hardware, because Apple is predominatly a hardware company, then you have to include Linux, and BeOS users in this pile. Now assuming I have my numbers correct, which is a HUGE assumption I believe the break-down is something like this:

90% - Microsoft
5% - Apple
2-3% - Linux
Remainder "Other"

Now you have a number of people equal to about half the Apple users running Linux. And I am sure most of you would concide that a Linux user is not an idiot, right?

Now I would say that the vast majority of both Apple, and MS users would fall into the idiot catagory. I say this because in my experiance, both in Windows, and Mac, there are many users, but few that can troubleshoot, even simple things.

So if I were to break this down to a community of 100 people:

9 - Non-Idiot Windows users
1 - Non-Idiot Mac User
3-5 - Aditional PC users, non-idiot

So maximum of 14% of PC users are not idiots, and 20% of Mac user are not idiots. Percentage wise, Apple wins, however number of people wise, many more on the PC side.

Seeing as how I am being very lenient in my definition of a non-idiot user, the number of 15% of all the computer users being non-idiots is a scary thought.


BTW: Just another thought, if 15% of computer users are not idiots, how many idiots do we have working on computers, in the Government:eek: Chilling isn't it?

[Unix Is Easy?]

sturm375,

Nice, lol, I got a kick out of your reply. Maybe it's because of all the caffine...

I agree, I've dealt with many "dumb" Mac users as well as PC users. It's not really that they're dumb they just don't want to learn everything about computers, they just want to use them as a tool to help them do whatever it is they do.

People who know alot about computers, geeks, and techies often get stuck helping out the "dumb" users and it's really sad how so many of the people who are suppost to be helping much rather act like an ass about it...

[AlphaTech]

I have more then a few peecee users at work that don't even know how to add a networked printer to their computer. Mac user's on the other hand can usually find the printer for themselves in short order. Many of the Mac people can figure out the naming conventions we give the printers for the Mac (printer type - location - AppleTalk zone). With that little bit of knowledge, they can connect to a printer and know where it is coming out. For the peecee people, they need to get to the server with the spooler on it, and then connect to it (win2k/nt4 is easier then 95/98 since win2k uses the drivers provided by the spooler where 95/98 uses ones on the computer). MOST of the Mac users at work are savy enough to not go and mess up their systems. Peecee users on the other hand can ***** up their systems faster then you would believe.

I really look forward to the day that we are given the green light to install OS X onto all the Mac's (or all the ones that will support it wich is about 95%+). I need to start checking out win hexpee soon, since eventually we will be told to install that (probably sometime either next year or the following year :D).

[Choppaface]

Originally posted by Unix Is Easy?


People who know alot about computers, geeks, and techies often get stuck helping out the "dumb" users and it's really sad how so many of the people who are suppost to be helping much rather act like an ass about it...

he he like that computer guy on SNL...

ya, its really disappointing to see people with great ability to waist their time bashing other platforms and badmouthing people who don't know exactly what they are doing but are nevertheless trying to get something done :rolleyes:


nice figures, sturm375 :D
although assuming all linux users aren't "dumb" might be a bit of an overestimate. I'm sure anybody running linux has their stuff together, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some people who are overconfident and might trash their machine by accident, or get their webserver hacked by being lax on security. I think what it all comes down to is when the user asks for help and how they ask for it

[AlphaTech]

It seems that a lot of people are missing a rather important word in the thread and poll... Average... The AVERAGE user, NOT geek, or near geek level of user. :p :D

[ejb190]

The way I see it, the average computer user does not want to be a programer or a network specialist. They just want a system that works from day to day. My mom for example...(sorry mom)...If she has a problem at work, she calls tech support to solve the problem. If she has a problem at home she calls me in the middle of the night and yells at me for buying her a computer that is too complicated... (Long story, but I couldn't talk her into a Mac because she uses a PC at work and didn't want to learn a new system.) I find it easy to get upset at her inability to use a computer, but I have to remember that she does not spend near the hours in front of one that I do. Of course that call at 2 a.m. didn't help :rolleyes:

Now I say all that to say it's the attitude of many PC Tech Support and IT people that irk me. They fall into that same attitude that get's between myself and my mom...

User-"Help! I have a problem here"
IT Guy-"Reset your IP address like we told you to do in the e-mail" (Or some other end user problem caused by the IT department's constant tinkering and upgrading...)
User-"Reset what? I can't get my e-mail"
IT Guy-"Stupid mortal. I can't be bothered to fix everyone's computer. I am upgrading our server for the 4th time this week."

{Side bar - I know there are some IT departments who do wonders with shoesting budgets and small staffs. But some of them have managment so befuddled that they get everything they dream of because it is "essential for the business to run".}

And so on.... Some people just haven't figured out that the rest of us have little to no interest in knowing how to reprogram/upgrade/fix our computers. (Thankfully Apple has!) We just want them to work!

The other end of the conversation goes something like...
User-"I am so tired of this computer never working. What if I got one of those Mac things?"
IT Guy-"Macs are trash. They won't work with our system. You can't even get e-mail on them."
And so the story starts...

(Could this be how a nerd makes him/herself feel macho? This might be a good article for the Journal of Irreproducable Results (http://www.jir.com))

(Sorry if I sound bitter. The Interm Director of the "Information Systems" department just created a new logo, changed the whole web site, and made obsolete most of my bookmarks just so they can rename themselves "Information Technology" instead.... And they STILL have no clue why QuickTime won't work anymore on my PC! On top of that, my Win XP 'puter has locked up three times today--twice while sitting idle!:mad: Not been a good day...)

[jefhatfield]

as long as computing in the workplace is so confusing or made so confusing by IT workers and IT management, then IT guys like me have a job

if all computers worked as well as macs, then i would have to change my occupation which wouldn't be bad

...maybe i can finally do "something" with a computer for a change then:p

[Unix Is Easy?]

Originally posted by ejb190
Now I say all that to say it's the attitude of many PC Tech Support and IT people that irk me. They fall into that same attitude that get's between myself and my mom...

I know how you feel... The IT people I know tell me about their stories on how this person stupidly did this and the next person is such a moron they don't know how to install a printer, you know how it goes.

They come talk to me because I can usually fix my own problems (or theirs :mad:) and they think I feel the same way they do. I work on a PC both at home and work and I'm hoping to get a Mac simply because I think they're cool. As for Mac users knowing what to do when something goes wrong well... not at my work place and we have over 500 Mac users. They have as many problems as us PC users.

OS 9 maybe?

[Unix Is Easy?]

Originally posted by AlphaTech
It seems that a lot of people are missing a rather important word in the thread and poll... Average... The AVERAGE user, NOT geek, or near geek level of user. :p :D

No.... really? :p

:confused:

heh

[Backtothemac]

Well, here are some of the stupid things I have seen at work.

me: Are you on a Mac or PC?
lady: Mac.
me: Click on the Apple menu,
lady: i don't have a menu.
me: What color is your PC?
lady: White.
me: OK click on start.
lady: I don't see start.
me: Ok, What icons do you have on your desktop.
lady: Baby, I don't have any pictures of Elvis on my desk.

In 93 I had the I broke my cupholder call. For real, really did.

Also, we have a guy on our network that refuses to use antivirus software, and always opens every friggin e-mail on his hotmail account. Can you say, nimda, badtrans, sexyscr, sircam, and many others, this month alone.

[LethalWolfe]

I think AVERAGE PC users are as computer savvy as AVERAGE Mac users. You just encounter more "idiots" running Windows because more people run windows (basic statistics). If you looked at percentages<sp?> I bet it would be fairly even.

Now, should we include iMac and PowerMac uses as one group, or seperate them? 'Cause PowerMac users tend to be more computer literate 'caues a PowerMac is the "pro" line. Where the iMac is targeted towards yer AVERAGE users. :)


Lethal

[Beej]

Originally posted by LethalWolfe
I think AVERAGE PC users are as computer savvy as AVERAGE Mac users. You just encounter more "idiots" running Windows because more people run windows (basic statistics). If you looked at percentages<sp?> I bet it would be fairly even.THANK you! This is so obvious. What a stange poll...

BTW you spelled 'percentages' right :)

[AlphaTech]

Originally posted by Beej
THANK you! This is so obvious. What a stange poll...

BTW you spelled 'percentages' right :)

Read the poll and vote like you want... I put in one for both being just as good/bad...

mooks :rolleyes:

[LethalWolfe]

Originally posted by Beej
THANK you! This is so obvious. What a stange poll...

BTW you spelled 'percentages' right :)


Thanx, I usually have horrible spelling so when in doubt I always go for the trusty "<sp?>" to cover my butt. ;)


Lethal