Apple Trademark Suit

[MacBytes]

Category: News and Press Releases
Link: Apple sues over China clothes-manufacturer\'s trademark. (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20040310100458)
Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)

Approved by Mudbug

[MacRumors]

MacWorld.co.uk reports (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=8129) on an Apple trademark dispute with Guangdong Apples Industrial Co, a Chines clothing company.

According to the report, the dispute traces back to a rejection from China's trademark appraisal committee for Apple's request for a trademark on its logo for a line of Apple branded clothing. The request was denied due to similarities with Guangdong's logo.

MacWorld.co.uk provides (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/top_news_item.cfm?NewsID=8129) pictures of both logos.

[PlaceofDis]

hmmm those apples do look a lot alike, but they didnt fall from the same tree (sorry couldnt resist) i dont see how people could get the confused but then again you never know.........

[Hemingray]

Ridiculous. There's clearly at least a 10% difference between the two. Do you see a bite out of their apple? A separated leaf with no stem? Also, I would be interested to hear how long these guys have been around and how long they've had their logo.

[AmigoMac]

Once I saw man in a swimming pool with a MS logo on his A$$ ... ;)

But this is a different case and they do look similar... Go Apple go...

[AirUncleP]

Similar? Well I guess they are both apples. What a joke.

[meta-ghost]

word to american companies: you do not own the world!

the chinese always have great ways to set us straight,
"It looks like a three-legged horse, and so will be absolutely different from a four-legged horse. The three-legged one is very easy to tell from many horses in terms of appearance," the lawyer said.

the comittee is dead on with ""Clothing is totally different from computers," they said, observing that Apple Computer provided no evidence that it is as influential in clothing as it is in computers."

[Gren]

Well, they are both logos based on an Apple. So it's no surprise that they are similar!

Interesting to note that Apples apple has a bite out of it so that it won't look like a cherry.

[stoid]

Looks like people are tired of MS's law staff wiping the walls with them in court and are taking on Apple for a change. Besides, how hard can it be to defeat a fruit company.

[TEG]

The two logos only look similar if you are Drunk and Color Blind. For one Apple's is larger, different color, has the bite, has a leaf and is 3-D. The other one is 2-D, has a squigle, and is definately not a Red Delicious, like Apple's, and has a stem. The only people who would get them confused were Drunk, Mentally Handicapped, color blind children.

TEG

[Hemingray]

the chinese always have great ways to set us straight,
"It looks like a three-legged horse, and so will be absolutely different from a four-legged horse. The three-legged one is very easy to tell from many horses in terms of appearance," the lawyer said.

By calculating the sheer mass of a horse, the difference of one leg of a horse would make about the same difference as a bite out of an apple and a separated leaf with no stem. :rolleyes:

[rvernout]

If China would have complied with international conventions, wherein "famous" trademarks offer broad protection also outside their specific product ranges, Apple would have a good chance. However:

Trademark Law Amended to Better Protect Famous Brands

In its WTO negotiations China promised to amend those clauses of its existing Trademark Law that are not in compliance with the Trade-related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). Accordingly, the Standing Committee of the National People's Congress adopted the amended Trademark Law at its 24th meeting on 27 October 2001. The revised law with 45 important amendments will enter into force on 1 December this year.

....

The protection of well-known trademarks has always been a matter of concern to multinational companies. Both the Paris Convention and TRIPS have provisions for the protection of famous trademarks. China's existing Trademark Law offers no such protection, although in actual practice China does offer some protection to such trademarks in accordance with the "Interim Provisions Concerning the Recognition and Management of Well-Known Trademarks" promulgated by SAIC. The amended Law includes relevant clauses to give greater protection to well-known trademarks and to fulfill China's international obligations.

(taken from http://www.tdctrade.com/alert/cba-e0111d.htm )


Provided that the Chinese logo was registered before December 2001, the automatic extension of protection to a remote field such as clothing which should have been provided according to the Paris Convention and WTO/TRIPS will not apply to this case, and Apple may thus expect to lose.

[VicMacs]

you cant own a fruit logo... its just not possible... nobody invented THE apple, its just there by nature..

[prutz11]

Is this saying Apple wants to have a line of clothing? Isn't that a little weird? Does Steve have some extra shirts and jeans to get rid of? Or I wonder if they have more snowboarding jackets planned.

[rvernout]

you cant own a fruit logo... its just not possible... nobody invented THE apple, its just there by nature..

There is no problem with registering the trademark "Apple" or the apple logo for a specific product range, as long as the product range is not related to apples (the fruit)

[AirUncleP]

The two logos only look similar if you are Drunk and Color Blind.

TEG

You forgot Stupid.

[SilvorX]

I just think its stupid, It's an apple though, how common are apples? almost EVERYONE eats them, if the company made computers as well, Apple should have a hissy, but since its just a clothing company, apple should leave em alone, unless if they decide to go into the computer business

[allenhuffman]

It's just lawyers, folks.

When Apple was sued by Microware a few years ago over the use of "OS 9", Apple got the case thrown out because, although they were both computer operating systems with similar capabilities (both ran Java, both ran on PowerPCs, both had I/O support for 1394/Firewire and could control camcorders, etc. etc.), Apple convinced the judge that since they competed in different market areas (embedded computers versus desktops), there was no confusion.

Thus, the product Microware OS-9, existing since 1980, and Apple Mac OS 9 were not enough alike for legal action.

But Apple can go after a clothing manufacturer. It's all about money and legal teams. Apple, Microsoft, Disney, etc. will usually win because they can afford to win. With enough money, there is no grey area :-)

Now, *if* this clothing company was selling their clothing through electronics or computer stores, or online in a way that targetted Apple users, then Apple might have a reason for concern. But I did not read if this was or was not the case.

[ryanw]

I bet this chinese company copied the apple logo originally and modified it just enough to not count as a streight rip off. I mean the curves on the chinese logo are exactly the same as the apple logo. Sure the stem/leaf combo and the lack of a bite makes it over 10% or 20% different, but the curves are WAY TOO similar to not have ripped off apple in the first place.

Plus as long as apple isn't trying to get into the clothing business, should this even matter? Is this implying that apple is trying to sell clothing items with the apple logo on it?

[redAPPLE]

The two logos only look similar if you are Drunk and Color Blind. For one Apple's is larger, different color, has the bite, has a leaf and is 3-D. The other one is 2-D, has a squigle, and is definately not a Red Delicious, like Apple's, and has a stem. The only people who would get them confused were Drunk, Mentally Handicapped, color blind children.

TEG

i ain't no terrorist. i usually do not hijack a topic, but i find this interesting. i never thought about what kind of apple the Apple logo is?

is it really a red delicious? i thought it was a "macintosh" ;)

[mrsebastian]

this really is stupid! i think i'm going to trademark my newly formed company called "green"[tm]. it will just be a logo comprised of the word and color "green"[tm]. it will be put on any and all products from live stock to toilet bowl cleaners. anyone selling a product with the word or color "green"[tm] will have to pay royalties, or be sued for every last dime. furthermore, mother nature and "green"[tm] have reached an agreement for a "group" settlement and so the earth will be trademarked. also, those individuals with "green"[tm] eyes will have to remit $5 per year, per eye, for the use of their eyes...

give me a [bleeping] break! while you're at it, steve might as well start a small apple farm and begin suing the other farmers for trademark infringement. i love apple and my macs, which i couldn't live without, but come on this is complete [bleep]!

[rvernout]

Plus as long as apple isn't trying to get into the clothing business, should this even matter? Is this implying that apple is trying to sell clothing items with the apple logo on it?

The issue at stake, and the reasoning behind the trademark laws, is the question whether the public could be confused as to the origin of the products labeled with the apple logo. If the national law provides for protection of a well known trademark in a remote product range and Apple could convince the judges that there would be any chance that a certain percentage of the public might think that the clothes are related to Apple Inc., they would have a case. The usual way to prove this is by providing results of a proper public poll held by an independent market research firm, wherein the public are shown the wares of the sued company and are asked with which company they associate the wares.

[redAPPLE]

i think Apple should not waste money on something, that is not relevant. i can think of a lot of relevant stuff. a relevant Apple hardware would be, for example, the g5 powerbook.

[redAPPLE]

The issue at stake, and the reasoning behind the trademark laws, is the question whether the public could be confused as to the origin of the products labeled with the apple logo. If the national law provides for protection of a well known trademark in a remote product range and Apple could convince the judges that there would be any chance that a certain percentage of the public might think that the clothes are related to Apple Inc., they would have a case. The usual way to prove this is by providing results of a proper public poll held by an independent market research firm, wherein the public are shown the wares of the sued company and are asked with which company they associate the wares.

i tend to agree with this stand point. especially with the popularity of the iPod...

[ALoLA]

I've seen plenty of knock-offs of American branded clothing in China/Hong Kong. This might just be another case of an American company attempting to protect it's logo. Besides, Apple tried to file a trademark on its on logo earlier but it was rejected by China. So, if this company came along after that, and then for them to protect them against Apple is BS. Granted, the two Apple are not that similar, at least to me. But who knows, there are plenty of pretty ignorant people out there. Just look at all of those Windows users. :D

[nagromme]

OK, this is funny :D

"Apple Computer provided no evidence that it is as influential in clothing as it is in computers."

[JamesDPS]

i ain't no terrorist. i usually do not hijack a topic, but i find this interesting. i never thought about what kind of apple the Apple logo is?

is it really a red delicious? i thought it was a "macintosh" ;)

Yeah I had always assumed it was a McIntosh apple, as well, as this informative website (http://www.tooter4kids.com/Apples/types_of_apples.htm) (clearly designed for botanists and farmers) shows, a McIntosh is more round, like the Apple logo, whereas red delicious apples are weird-shaped.

I don't know what I'm talking about [edit]: the apple logo is sort of narrower at the bottom i guess... it's hard to tell whether mcintosh apples do that.... pls someone who actually knows, end this debate! :D

[bensisko]

There is a store in Brookfield Wisconsin that sells Apples (the fruit) and their logo looks EXACTUALLY like the Apple Computer logo (with the only exception that the leif is pointed left instead of right). It has all the same curves, and even the bite. I would think that, even though they are selling fruit and not computers, they would be in violation of copyright infringement.

[rvernout]

this really is stupid! i think i'm going to trademark my newly formed company called "green"[tm]. it will just be a logo comprised of the word and color "green"[tm].

Hmm, you may do so. Have a look here: http://www.gibney.com/LegalNews/Record/colortrademark.cfm

However, most of what you intend to do with the trademark will not be considered to be in good faith, and will rejected by any judge.

[sinisterdesign]

The two logos only look similar if you are Drunk and Color Blind. For one Apple's is larger, different color, has the bite, has a leaf and is 3-D. The other one is 2-D, has a squigle, and is definately not a Red Delicious, like Apple's, and has a stem. The only people who would get them confused were Drunk, Mentally Handicapped, color blind children.

TEG

being a graphic designer myself and having designed a few logos, i find this very interesting. there's nothing more annoying than spending hours on a logo only to have it demolished in seconds by someone going, "oh, hey, that reminds me of the Windows logo."

this is definitely a gray area, though. on one hand, i don't think Apple really makes that much profit from baseball caps & golf shirts (especially in china, c'mon), but on the other hand, china HAS been known to tow the line w/ knockoff brands ("no, rit's ra REAL Rorex, i swear...").

so they look very different posted there on Macworld's page, but let's say i'm the chinese company & i decide to start marketing some caps for my company. since we're talking stiching, not pixels, it's one color of thread, red on white caps. now let's say i want to reverse it out so i have a white logo on a red cap. now i decide that black looks better w/ my black hair. wow, now that's looking a hella' lot like the Apple cap that i have in my car.

obviously, everyone on this forum would see that cap & wonder what company it was for since it's obviously not Apple Computer, but i can bet you $ that everyone here in my office would think it was.

interesting...

[JamesDPS]

I think we should order clothes from this Chinese company before they go under, so we can ebay them afterwards; kind of like what I wanted to do with those Abercrombie shirts like "Two Wongs Make it White" that had to be discontinued.... the only thing is, I refuse to buy anything from Abercrombie.

Anyways upon further reflection of the apple itself (in Apple Computer's logo), it looks more like a golden delicious or perhaps a Red Rome. Considering the original Apple logo, though, I can't think of any apples that are multi-colored in even horizontal stripes ;) Nor can I think of any metallic or blue-ish (aqua) or plain white ones... maybe SJ has his own specially engineered apple tree.

[sinisterdesign]

this really is stupid! i think i'm going to trademark my newly formed company called "green"[tm]. it will just be a logo comprised of the word and color "green"[tm].

better hurry, the rainbow is going quickly. but you'll be in good company w/ the wireless giant:

http://www.orange.com/english/default.asp

[Wonder Boy]

apple computer and the beatles apple corp logo look more similar than apple computer and apple china. this is a big waste of time and money.

[billyboy]

If the Chinese company make half decent clothes Apple Computers should let them go right ahead and flood China with the "Apple" logo. What a great way to subliminally implant the Apple brand into the hearts and minds of China. All Apple computers need do then to cash in, is come up with a computer that the average Chinese could afford - a feat they have not yet accomplished anywhere else in the world!

[TEG]

Yeah I had always assumed it was a McIntosh apple, as well, as this informative website (http://www.tooter4kids.com/Apples/types_of_apples.htm) (clearly designed for botanists and farmers) shows, a McIntosh is more round, like the Apple logo, whereas red delicious apples are weird-shaped.

I don't know what I'm talking about [edit]: the apple logo is sort of narrower at the bottom i guess... it's hard to tell whether mcintosh apples do that.... pls someone who actually knows, end this debate! :D

I just made the comment to say that the Chineese logo looks like Fiji Apple, where as the Apple Logo looks like a more common variety, I actually think it may be a Granny Smith, or a Yellow Delicious. I know the Red Delicious is odd shaped. It is also possible that the Apple Logo is a composit of many different Apples, like how the rainbow meant that the computer was for everyone. Also, the Apple Logo predates the Macintosh by nearly 8 years, so I doubt that it is a Macintosh Apple.

Brainstorm:

Apple should rework the Macintosh Line to have each model be a different Variety of Apple, and they could all run Apple OS, instead of Mac OS. The Mac however would replace the PowerMacintosh.

TEG

[mrsebastian]

Hmm, you may do so. Have a look here: http://www.gibney.com/LegalNews/Record/colortrademark.cfm

However, most of what you intend to do with the trademark will not be considered to be in good faith, and will rejected by any judge.

you hit the nail on the head ;) i think this is pretty silly of apple.

[maclamb]

i ain't no terrorist. i usually do not hijack a topic, but i find this interesting. i never thought about what kind of apple the Apple logo is?

is it really a red delicious? i thought it was a "macintosh" ;)

I doubt it's a "Macintosh apple". The name "Macintosh" was chosen by Jef Raskin when he invented the mac as it is his favorite apple (see his recent interview).

Apple as a company/logo was around years before the "mac" came along.

But, who knows...

[nagromme]

I think Mac news is ...S...L...O...W... these days :D

Come on! Isn't there an Apple PDA in top-secret manufacturing or something? Maybe OS X about to be sold for x86? :)

[billyboy]

I think Mac news is ...S...L...O...W... these days :D



If that is the reason why Apple stock keeps rising at silly rates, keep it slow and quiet. :)

[mrsebastian]

If that is the reason why Apple stock keeps rising at silly rates, keep it slow and quiet. :)

go baby go! my apple stock is looking better and better.

[slipper]

OMG this is even more ridiculous that the MS lawsuit we were all commenting on. i think i just lost a bunch of respect for Apple(the computer company).

[shamino]

The two logos only look similar if you are Drunk and Color Blind. For one Apple's is larger, different color, has the bite, has a leaf and is 3-D. The other one is 2-D, has a squigle, and is definately not a Red Delicious, like Apple's, and has a stem. The only people who would get them confused were Drunk, Mentally Handicapped, color blind children.
Color doesn't matter. Apple has printed their logo in a wide variety of colors (including blue, red, black, rainbow, and white) over the years. The shape is what matters.

While I'll agree that they are similar, I doubt they could be easily confused with each other. The presence of the leaf on Guandong Apple's logo and the presence of the bite on Apple Computer's logo should be different enough to avoid confusion.

[trose]

Hmm, anyone get the latest MacAddict yet? In the back there is a user letter that talks about this, saying someone he knows (forget now) has shoes from a Chinese company with an Apple logo on them. There is a picture of a shoe there with a logo that looks EXACTLY the same, but it must be a Photoshop, because the logo does not look like the red one in the article mentioned here.

[Maxx Power]

I've lived in china for about 14 years since 1982, I've seen that Apple brand clothing since i can remember my first piece of clothing made by them. But i have never seen an apple computer in china. Even just a few years ago (about 2 ish), apple computers were only beginning to become known, a few select stores carried it, but only older models and not even in stock. This case is ridiculous, no one is going to get confused about the branding logos. Apple computers is going down the sewers on this one.

[walliver]

How does this fit in with the Apple Corps agreement? Are clothing items part of the "computer business" or the "music business"?

[SubGothius]

It is also possible that the Apple Logo is a composit of many different Apples, like how the rainbow meant that the computer was for everyone. Also, the Apple Logo predates the Macintosh by nearly 8 years, so I doubt that it is a Macintosh Apple.Atchelly, the rainbow stripes were a marketing ploy, added at the last minute when the logo was first designed and about to be sent out for its first print job, intended to reinforce that the Apple ][ had built-in color display capability.Hmm, anyone get the latest MacAddict yet? In the back there is a user letter that talks about this, saying someone he knows (forget now) has shoes from a Chinese company with an Apple logo on them. There is a picture of a shoe there with a logo that looks EXACTLY the same, but it must be a Photoshop, because the logo does not look like the red one in the article mentioned here.That shoe's from a different company, Jinpingguo ("Golden Apple" in Mandarin -- Hail Eris! %^), not the one referenced in the article that started this thread, Guangdong Apple; however, the shoe's logo (or mebbe it's just a decoration?) really does look almost EXACTLY like the Apple Computer logo--or more accurately, like a deliberate, clumsy knock-off of the Apple Computer logo (stemless leaf pointing the same direction, bite taken out of the same side but slightly higher and odd-shaped, and an ever-so-slightly different dimple on the bottom)--so if Apple Computer wins against Guangdong Apple, they've got a solid lock on Cease'n'Desisting Jinpingguo as well.

[meta-ghost]

I've lived in china for about 14 years since 1982, I've seen that Apple brand clothing since i can remember my first piece of clothing made by them. But i have never seen an apple computer in china. Even just a few years ago (about 2 ish), apple computers were only beginning to become known, a few select stores carried it, but only older models and not even in stock.

i lived in hong kong for three years and was practically waiting at the dock when the first batch of G4s arrived (around a month after they were introduced in the states). what is funny is that these were rev.1 single 450's and when i opened the box there were large notices stating i would be breaking united states law if i transported the machine into mainland china. there happend to be a trade law banning the sale of "high speed computers" to china. until then i didn't know a G4 450 was capable of designing nuclear weapons. i felt a little more powerful after that...

[ejb190]

and is definately not a Red Delicious, like Apple's, TEG

O.K. I'll bite. HOW do you tell a stylized logo is a Red Delicious? By the way, there are MUCH better apples out there than good old Cardboard Crunch! Try Pristine or Gold Rush for starters!