Mac OS X 10.3.3 (7F43) Seeded

[MacRumors]

Apple has seeded Mac OS X 10.3.3 (7F43) to developers yesterday.

Major areas of change include Core OS, Carbon, Cocoa, Graphics and Imaginge, High Level ToolBox, Printing and USB.

Various fixes include:

- Prebinding performance fix
- Directory Services in large Active Directory installations performance improved
- NFS automounter now maintains connections in use
- Network browsing servers now mount on the Desktop and Sidebar
- AFP Authentication options are again available (Keychain for AFP now works again)
- Many other fixes

[gandalf55]

Apple has seeded Mac OS X 10.3.3 (7F43) to developers yesterday.

Major areas of change include Core OS, Carbon, Cocoa, Graphics and Imaginge, High Level ToolBox, Printing and USB.

Various fixes include:

- Prebinding performance fix
- Directory Services in large Active Directory installations performance improved
- NFS automounter now maintains connections in use
- Network browsing servers now mount on the Desktop and Sidebar
- AFP Authentication options are again available (Keychain for AFP now works again)
- Many other fixes
most excellent :)

[MacBoy88]

Keep It Coming! :D

[NNO-Stephen]

release it already!!!

:)

sorry, I got software update fever... I NEED MY MEDICINE!!!

[AhmedFaisal]

- Network browsing servers now mount on the Desktop and Sidebar


Thank god! The way it was before with those shares not showing up on the desktop was so goddamn annoying, especially when it froze your Finder if the network drive you just browsed goes to sleep before properly disconnected....
Cheers,

Ahmed

[ingenious]

anyone know y its taking so long to release this? is this usual? I seem to remember that 10.2.5, .6, and .8 all came out in what seemed like the same month. Is it cuz of new G5 updates? :D like PBs? :D

[xenotek]

I recently installed upwards of 700 fonts and suddenly neither safari, ichat, nor apple's mail would work for morer than a few seconds before crashing. I thought it might be the fonts, so I took them out and the iapps started to work properly again. Does Panther have a limit for the number of fonts displayed in a menu? They should really work this issue out in the next update.

[crees!]

I recently installed upwards of 700 fonts and suddenly neither safari, ichat, nor apple's mail would work for morer than a few seconds before crashing. I thought it might be the fonts, so I took them out and the iapps started to work properly again. Does Panther have a limit for the number of fonts displayed in a menu? They should really work this issue out in the next update.

How 'bout you send a feedback report to Apple telling them just that.

[zigzag]

I recently installed upwards of 700 fonts and suddenly neither safari, ichat, nor apple's mail would work for morer than a few seconds before crashing. I thought it might be the fonts, so I took them out and the iapps started to work properly again. Does Panther have a limit for the number of fonts displayed in a menu? They should really work this issue out in the next update.

You have one or more corrupt font files, I had the same problem until I found the problem-causing font and deleted it.

[MacBoy88]

Any one know the Size of it now?

[SoGood]

C'mon, just get it out. In dying need of that speed boost to the OS...

[doutee]

Maybe it will be out this Tuesday. Let's hope soon

[bousozoku]

C'mon, just get it out. In dying need of that speed boost to the OS...

You mean, just get it right. ;)

[dloomer]

I don't remember Keychain for AFP ever working (in Panther at least -- not sure about Jaguar), but sounds like good news.

I can hear a collective sigh of relief from everyone as far as the desktop/sidebar mounting as well.

Sounds like the networking update we've been waiting for forever (and quite frankly, should have been in 10.3.0).

[dashiel]

anyone know y its taking so long to release this? is this usual? I seem to remember that 10.2.5, .6, and .8 all came out in what seemed like the same month. Is it cuz of new G5 updates? :D like PBs? :D

there was apparently a serious bug in one of the earlier releases that affected imacs. i assume/hope apple is being a bit more careful these days after the itunes/10.2.7(?)/itunes win mishaps.

there was actually a really good article a while back on the pros and cons of avie tevanian and what that meant for apple as he was promoted to a VP. the article implied that avie was a genius and very good at getting OS releases shipped on time and on a frequent basis, but his quality control wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

personally i'd rather wait another month and get something thoroughly tested than get something that would fry my hard drive.

[swissmann]

I just want them to get it right. I like 10.3 on the most part but I really don't like all the bugs. Please do it right and do it soon.

[gopher]

Apple has seeded Mac OS X 10.3.3 (7F43) to developers yesterday.

Major areas of change include Core OS, Carbon, Cocoa, Graphics and Imaginge, High Level ToolBox, Printing and USB.

Various fixes include:

- Prebinding performance fix
- Directory Services in large Active Directory installations performance improved
- NFS automounter now maintains connections in use
- Network browsing servers now mount on the Desktop and Sidebar
- AFP Authentication options are again available (Keychain for AFP now works again)
- Many other fixes

Still waiting for the http://www.macmaps.com/firewirebug.html
to be fixed.

[doutee]

there was apparently a serious bug in one of the earlier releases that affected imacs. i assume/hope apple is being a bit more careful these days after the itunes/10.2.7(?)/itunes win mishaps.

there was actually a really good article a while back on the pros and cons of avie tevanian and what that meant for apple as he was promoted to a VP. the article implied that avie was a genius and very good at getting OS releases shipped on time and on a frequent basis, but his quality control wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

personally i'd rather wait another month and get something thoroughly tested than get something that would fry my hard drive.

[Photorun]

Verrrry cool. Hope they make network browsing BROWSING like in 10.2, not this need to know IP bidness. Also let me pick ink colors and settings for my Epson 880 like in 10.2 would be great (10.3 took this away :mad:) but maybe I'm being greedy.

[vrapan]

Let them get it right. It seems to contain a big number of nice fixes and updates as long as they keep fixing stuff and make sure it is stable and nice i do not mind waiting. I really hate downloading an update only to see that things are still screwed up and have to wait another 2 months or so for the next patch.

[gopher]

anyone know y its taking so long to release this? is this usual? I seem to remember that 10.2.5, .6, and .8 all came out in what seemed like the same month. Is it cuz of new G5 updates? :D like PBs? :D

First off, the 10.2.6 update came out as an update to 10.2.5 because of a serious bug that caused kernel panics on numerous USB hubs. 10.2.8 didn't come out until 4 months later. 10.2.7 was only available to machines with built-in USB 2 support. Mind you there were two 10.2.8 releases, one that was released prior to their fixing some bugs with battery life and ethernet drop outs on G4 towers, and another 3 weeks later. One was called 6R65, the next 6R73. So Apple will release an update shortly after another if they find a bug they can solve easily. Obviously the Firewire bug has eluded them thus far.

Two places to go to if you want to report a bug:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
http://bugreporter.apple.com/ (free registration required)

[Sherman]

Oh thank god, that prebinding bug has been bugging me since 10.2

I'll spare you the details, but the prebinding service will eat up 100% of your CPU and tie up your hard disk clicking away, no idea what it's doing. You can kill the prebinding service, but that's usually not recommended, so a restart would be required. Yay for finally fixing that! :o

[russed]

well i hope it comes out before tuesday, im going home from uni for the holidays then and i will be without my nice 10Mbps connection for 5 weeks and only have a standard dial up instead :( i dont fancy spending a week downloading it!

[invaLPsion]

If the update is released on tuesday I be we'll see powermacs on that day or a week after. I say this because numerous rumor sites are claiming that 10.3.3 is required for the 90nm G5 and many of the new features like XT graphics cards, 8x superdrives, and dual optical drives.

[invaLPsion]

MacOSRumors predicted the release of this seed this morning.

And they were correct!

They also have been saying that powermacs depend on 10.3.3 for their release.

Could they be correct about that too?

POWERMAC UPDATES ARE IMMINENT.

10.3.3 = Powermacs!

[russed]

if so hurry up releasing 10.3.3!

[NNO-Stephen]

MacOSRumors predicted the release of this seed this morning.

And they were correct!

They also have been saying that powermacs depend on 10.3.3 for their release.

Could they be correct about that too?

POWERMAC UPDATES ARE IMMINENT.

10.3.3 = Powermacs!

that would also explain why they haven't just released it and are polishing it as much as possible :)

[TorbX]

MacOSRumors predicted the release of this seed this morning.

And they were correct!

They also have been saying that powermacs depend on 10.3.3 for their release.

Could they be correct about that too?

POWERMAC UPDATES ARE IMMINENT.

10.3.3 = Powermacs!

Naw, don't get your hopes up. Judging by www.apple.com, Apple isn't a hardware company anymore. They are only into software and thingy's. :o

[mustang_dvs]

I don't remember Keychain for AFP ever working (in Panther at least -- not sure about Jaguar), but sounds like good news.
Hmmm... I've been using AFP with keychain passwords without any problem since upgrading to 10.3. (Remember, you have to turn on the option for each share you connect to.)



there was apparently a serious bug in one of the earlier releases that affected imacs. i assume/hope apple is being a bit more careful these days after the itunes/10.2.7(?)/itunes win mishaps.
The bug you're referring to, which affected 20" iMacs, was only in the initially-seeded build of 10.3.3 and was never released to the public. And 10.2.7 was never offered via the SWU panel because it was a compatibility release for the G5 hardware, not for other Macs.



Still waiting for the http://www.macmaps.com/firewirebug.html
to be fixed.
Umm... that's been resolved, to the best of my knowledge.



MacOSRumors predicted the release of this seed this morning.

And they were correct!

They also have been saying that powermacs depend on 10.3.3 for their release.
Wow, it's amazing that they were able to "predict" the new build a day after it was released to developers. Don't trust MOSR. They fictionalize, lie, cheat and re-date articles. They haven't been accurate or trustworthy for more than three years.

As for the release date of 10.3.3 or new Power Macs... they'll arrive when they arrive, no sooner.

[From Win to Mac]

Ha, i can't believe MOSR still exists. Remember when they came out with that G6-G7 stuff ?? lol
As The Apple Turns had even made an Episode out of it : Rumorological Overload (http://www.appleturns.com/scene/?id=3392)

[wrldwzrd89]

Two places to go to if you want to report a bug:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/feedback/
http://bugreporter.apple.com/ (free registration required)
Thanks for the link to Apple's Bug Reporter service. I added it to my bookmarks and plan to use it to report a bug in QuickTime related to MIDI playback. Anyway, back on topic, I'm looking forward to having the network share bugs fixed. Those have been driving me crazy! For example, if I'm connected to a Mac OS 9 machine while my computer goes to sleep, when it wakes up again, I get 5 disconnected messages. Why is this? Surely only one message is needed, not FIVE.

[dontmatter]

is it just me, or have we seen a LOT of "Mac OS X 10.3.3 (7F_something_) Seeded" rumors? what does this mean? was the origional really buggy?

[Veldek]

If the update is released on tuesday I be we'll see powermacs on that day or a week after. I say this because numerous rumor sites are claiming that 10.3.3 is required for the 90nm G5 and many of the new features like XT graphics cards, 8x superdrives, and dual optical drives.

I wonder how often I will have to read this, before everyone knows. Please understand: there is no XT version of the 9800 for the Mac. The announced special edition is just the 256MB version but is still slower than the 9800XT which is another card (with a faster bus, for example).

[invaLPsion]

Wow, it's amazing that they were able to "predict" the new build a day after it was released to developers. Don't trust MOSR. They fictionalize, lie, cheat and re-date articles. They haven't been accurate or trustworthy for more than three years.

Well they were correct a month ago when they said that powermacs would not come out until March or April. If they are correct about Powermacs coming out within 7-10 days or at the release of 10.3.3 you have to eat your words about MOSR.

As for the release date of 10.3.3 or new Power Macs... they'll arrive when they arrive, no sooner.

That sounds like a "newbie" thing to say. Lets have some fun speculation here.

[invaLPsion]

I wonder how often I will have to read this, before everyone knows. Please understand: there is no XT version of the 9800 for the Mac. The announced special edition is just the 256MB version but is still slower than the 9800XT which is another card (with a faster bus, for example).

I know this, but there are rumors of the XT cards becoming available for the mac with the release of the new G5s, which is what I was refering too.

[Veldek]

I know this, but there are rumors of the XT cards becoming available for the mac with the release of the new G5s, which is what I was refering too.

And how probable is it, that ATI announces the 9800SE to be released soon (most probably together with Power Mac updates) but doesn't say anything about the XT cards (which would make this Special Edition rather obsolete by the way)? Think about it.

[SoGood]

As for the release date of 10.3.3 or new Power Macs... they'll arrive when they arrive, no sooner.
Wow, is that a quote or what!
With that in mind, who needs to surf rumour sites?

[invaLPsion]

And how probable is it, that ATI announces the 9800SE to be released soon (most probably together with Power Mac updates) but doesn't say anything about the XT cards (which would make this Special Edition rather obsolete by the way)? Think about it.

Not if they release 9600XTs with radeon 9800SEs for the top of the line.

[johnnyjibbs]

Also let me pick ink colors and settings for my Epson 880 like in 10.2 would be great (10.3 took this away :mad:) but maybe I'm being greedy.
I had a similar problem with my printer (HP deskjet 5652) where I lost printer quality settings when I upgraded to Panther. I think this is because Panther includes drivers for these printers as default, so it probably had overwritten the old driver (which I had to install as it wasn't part of Jaguar). I fixed this problem by downloading the latest driver for the printer from the HP website - it may not be the same one as Apple includes with the OS. Now I have full functionality again (although I'm sure it doesn't print as fast anymore :confused: )

[crees!]

I can hear a collective sigh of relief from everyone as far as the desktop/sidebar mounting as well.

Sounds like the networking update we've been waiting for forever (and quite frankly, should have been in 10.3.0).

I don't understand what this desktop/sidebar volume mounting business is all about? Every time I connect to a network or another computer it mounts on the desktop and in the sidebar for me. I'm sure there are other issues that need to be addressed that might be causing this for some people.

About printing there is one thing that really, really bugs me. When you print.... if you want to switch the orientation to Landscape or Portrait you have to go to Page Setup.. which I ALWAYS forget about. It's not in the Print dialog. When the Print dialog comes up there are so many options and there is no reason it can not be done from there. You can go to Layout Options in the Print dialog but you can't change the orientation? Come on now. I really would like to know the reasoning behind this.

Oh, and when typing in textfields like this one if you could undo your mistakes (cmd-z).... like the one I just made and forgot what I typed previously, that would be great.. "mmmm yeaaaaaa" (b. lumberg).

[bit density]

My prediction is that new powermacs, and new powerbooks are going to have lightscribe (www.lightscribe.com) enabled superdrives.

So the question is, has anyone seen a new IDVD, or ITunes that will support the lightscribe drives?

I think this will be key because, first it is cool. :cool:

Second it will help differentiate the power lines from the economy lines. This will allow superdrives without lightscribe to make it to the i lines...

Third this becomes payback of sorts to HP...

Now rumour amongst yourselves....

[aswitcher]

My prediction is that new powermacs, and new powerbooks are going to have lightscribe (www.lightscribe.com) enabled superdrives.

SNIP

This would be way cool, but I don't think its going to happen anytime soon because of so many issues with all their lines, an additonal complexity is not a good idea.

[Les Kern]

Here's something to ponder:
I am in the process of doing a rather large purchase of Macs. I was told that the lease has to be submitted, and PO's prepared, by NEXT Friday, because after the the interest rate goes from zero to 1.9%. Such an odd date to use, isn't it, March 19th? I don't chase the newest stuff, so I really don't care if I can take advantage of a Mac revision, but remember where you read that date!

[bit density]

This would be way cool, but I don't think its going to happen anytime soon because of so many issues with all their lines, an additonal complexity is not a good idea.

Ok isn't way cool enough?

The reason I think this would work, is that it adds very little cost to the drives. Certainly less than the gains in costs that have been had in the last year in superdrives.

IDvd, and Itunes in the OS, make the drives more useful than they will be on the PC. All you need is some drivers and and some cool layouts. I think this well within Apple's strengths. It provides NO meaningful difference to the manufacturing model.


Apple gets to sell some media for awhile at least in the stores, and online. Anything that keeps the customer coming to the store is good!

It is cool enough that I think that you can put superdrives in the ibooks, and still draw people to the Powerbook for this feature alone. (Meaning that customers will overpay for the feature, and that apple will make more money).

It is something new and cool in the interim before VPC 7.0 and other programs to get full g5 compatability.

It gives a reason to upgrade to new powerbooks while waiting for the g5 to make it.

Complexity of sorts, is what drives product differentiation. Which is core to Apple's business model.

This is way easier to introduce than a whole bunch of other features, like a g5 powerbook, and a 3G g5. It will provide further differentiation between mac and PC's.

And it repays a favor to HP. I don't know, I may be wrong... But I know I would upgrade based on this feature. And this is just based on what I use my computer for....

[fluidinclusion]

I had a similar problem with my printer (HP deskjet 5652) where I lost printer quality settings when I upgraded to Panther. I think this is because Panther includes drivers for these printers as default, so it probably had overwritten the old driver (which I had to install as it wasn't part of Jaguar). I fixed this problem by downloading the latest driver for the printer from the HP website - it may not be the same one as Apple includes with the OS. Now I have full functionality again (although I'm sure it doesn't print as fast anymore :confused: )

I had the same problem. I have a HP 1220 C Deskjet. Only the CUPS printer (much crappier driver) was available compared to the custom HP driver after upgrading to 10.3 from 10.2.8. Now:

1. There was SUPPOSED to be a new driver version in 10.2.3 for this printer (there was but it DID NOT LOAD CORRECTLY WHEN THE OS INSTALLED).

2. HP DOES NOT have this newest version on their website because it is IN the OS X 10.3 CD install. Only the older driver for 10.2.x is/was on their website. It worked with cosmetic issues, so I could at least print after I figured that out, but it wasn't the newest driver.

3. I was able to completely fix all of my outstanding bugs by doing a COMPLETE backup and reinstall (totally clean) of 10.3. I then transferred email, etc. I RECOMMEND THIS FOR EVERYONE. Even the correct HP Deskjet driver WAS installed when I went this route.


I have had no unusual system crashes, freezes, wierd icon activity, hanging programs, printer problems etc. after the CLEAN install after writing zeroes to my hard drive. For whatever reason, the "archive and install - or whatever it was" option from the CD installer did not work properly for me and many other people. I did NOT choose the "upgrade" path - that appears even worse.

I've had this fresh install with all of my software installed for ~2+ months now and all is nearly perfect. (I don't do network filesharing, so I don't know about those bugs). I'm quite happy now. The only crashes I have are rare ones every few hours plaing Medal of Honor when someone does something wierd with the server on the other end. No effect on the OS as a whole.

[sonyrules]

I recently installed upwards of 700 fonts and suddenly neither safari, ichat, nor apple's mail would work for morer than a few seconds before crashing. I thought it might be the fonts, so I took them out and the iapps started to work properly again. Does Panther have a limit for the number of fonts displayed in a menu? They should really work this issue out in the next update.

i have over a 1000 fonts and never had that problem, photoshop is a bit slow, but all my other apps work great. My 2 cents

Jr

[aswitcher]

Ok isn't way cool enough?

SNIP

And it repays a favor to HP. I don't know, I may be wrong... But I know I would upgrade based on this feature. And this is just based on what I use my computer for....

I agree its not a big hurdle, I just wonder if its a bit early to think of more innovation when their iMac and PB lines are getting old and I think the time would be better spent getting signficant improvements in base hardware...then again I like gadgets

I wouldn't buy a G4 PB rev C just for this (and other minor improvements), but it would be a nice "gadget" and if it were an option I would pony up for it on the G5PB and advise others to do liekwise for their machines. Its a sweat solution to an old problem and Apple could do a fab job with templates and the like to make the art attractive.

I do wonder of the media would be extra expensive and hard to get overseas (where I am).

[MegaSignal]

The bug you're referring to, which affected 20" iMacs, was only in the initially-seeded build of 10.3.3 and was never released to the public. And 10.2.7 was never offered via the SWU panel because it was a compatibility release for the G5 hardware, not for other Macs.


Good point - and I've heard this before.

But I am of the curious in nature: specifically, what on earth was happening to those 20" iMacs that was so horrific?

[Mehmet]

how bout those newly released plextor SATA dvd writers?

would be awesome if it was in the rev b g5's.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/pcworld/20040311/tc_pcworld/115150

[beatle888]

I recently installed upwards of 700 fonts and suddenly neither safari, ichat, nor apple's mail would work for morer than a few seconds before crashing. I thought it might be the fonts, so I took them out and the iapps started to work properly again. Does Panther have a limit for the number of fonts displayed in a menu? They should really work this issue out in the next update.

do you need all fonts loaded at once? we usually load fonts as needed.
suitcaseX will autiomatically load fonts when a doc needs to access them.
it taxes the system to have all fonts loaded at one time.

[Veldek]

Not if they release 9600XTs with radeon 9800SEs for the top of the line.

I just don't think that ATI releases only one XT card without the other as it is the top line.

[Zaty]

The fact, that Apple keeps releasing new interim seeds, can IMHO mean two things, first, and that seems to be obvious, they want to get it right this time and secondly, (provided that Rev B PM G5s do need 10.3.3) couldn't it also mean, that the new PMs are not yet ready for release and won't be announced for some time. Don't they have to finalise the OS update at least a few days, if not weeks, before the new machines are being shipped in order to create OS images and restore CDs/DVDs for the new revision? So I think, as long as the final 10.3.3 is not released, the launch of new PMs can't be iminent.

[johnnyjibbs]

My prediction is that new powermacs, and new powerbooks are going to have lightscribe (www.lightscribe.com) enabled superdrives.

So the question is, has anyone seen a new IDVD, or ITunes that will support the lightscribe drives?

I think this will be key because, first it is cool. :cool:

Second it will help differentiate the power lines from the economy lines. This will allow superdrives without lightscribe to make it to the i lines...

Third this becomes payback of sorts to HP...

Now rumour amongst yourselves....
I've never heard of these before but they look really cool! I want one!!!

Question though: presumably it uses up ink or something to burn that on - where/how do you refill?

[MCCFR]

I've never heard of these before but they look really cool! I want one!!!

Question though: presumably it uses up ink or something to burn that on - where/how do you refill?

From what I read, the media is coated in a photo-sensitive material which is etched by a laser source.

So the answer is no ink, no refill.

[johnnyjibbs]

From what I read, the media is coated in a photo-sensitive material which is etched by a laser source.

So the answer is no ink, no refill.
So, the answer is no ink, but bloody expensive blank discs. I see. :p

[wordmunger]

do you need all fonts loaded at once? we usually load fonts as needed.
suitcaseX will autiomatically load fonts when a doc needs to access them.
it taxes the system to have all fonts loaded at one time.
This is different. FontBook will crash the system even if the fonts are not activated.

[rdowns]

i have over a 1000 fonts and never had that problem, photoshop is a bit slow, but all my other apps work great. My 2 cents

Jr

From MacAddict's April issue:

Reallocate PhotoShop's Memory:

...Adobe recommends using an often overlooked PhotoShop preference. PhotoShop>Preferences>Memory & Image Cache. In the dialog box that appears, look at the Memory Usage setting. By default, it's set at 50%. Adobe recommends increasing it to 75% (no higher).

[pulcinella2uk]

I had the same problem when i tried to transition from Suitcase to FontBook - FontBook has problems managing large numbers of fonts and simply isn't up to the job. It's okay for small amounts - but you need something like Suitcase for a lot of fonts. I can't quite remember but i think FontBook had problems when i had more than 100 or 200 fonts installed.

[AppleMatt]

It seems to me like 10.3.3 will be Panthers "sweet spot". IMO, 10.2.5 was Jaguars sweet spot.

Saying that, it would be nice if all future Apple builds went through this rigorous testing and fixed as many bugs as this one. I can't even count the number of bug-fixes, and it's good that some long-standing really obvious ones are beginning to be taken care of.

I'm interested to know when the QuickTime security flaw will be fixed.

AppleMatt

[encro]

do you need all fonts loaded at once? we usually load fonts as needed.
suitcaseX will automatically load fonts when a doc needs to access them.
it taxes the system to have all fonts loaded at one time.

OS X loads and unloads fonts on the fly so the system taxing only refers to OS 9 (ie. Redundant information now) . OS X will do what you require above from Suitcase by default...

[phillymjs]

They also have been saying that powermacs depend on 10.3.3 for their release.

If that's true and Apple releases 10.3.3 this week and does announce new Power Macs on March 23, then don't expect them to ship for at least a few weeks after the announcement. They'll need some time to press all those 10.3.3 installer DVDs for inclusion in the Power Mac boxes. I don't think a single week is enough lead time.

Having said that, I hope I'm wrong-- I'm DYING for a top-of-the-line dual G5 to replace my Quicksilver 733, and I have been since January.

~Philly

[bit density]

So, the answer is no ink, but bloody expensive blank discs. I see. :p


Possibly,in the beginning.

HP has claimed a 10-15 cent difference in price for media. Compared to the price of media, that is a lot for cd-rs and not too bad for dvds.

However, in value... I think it is worth 15 cents. Almost any non-sharpie solution runs about that, and I think this is way cool, especially for burning on the run.

I would expect that initially you would have to get media from Apple, but I also expect that once this became ubiquitous that the media costs would be near nil.

(But you know what, I want one now, because they are so dang cool...)

[yamabushi]

how bout those newly released plextor SATA dvd writers?

would be awesome if it was in the rev b g5's.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/pcworld/20040311/tc_pcworld/115150
That would be a great improvement for the towers. It could make the design more flexible by opening the possibility of using either SATA hard drives or optical drives in the same bays. In addition using identical SATA hard drives in three or more drive bays would make a RAID 5 array feasible with a controller card. An optical drive in an external device could be still be used in such a configuration.

[dantec]

Apple usually releases a special version of the current Mac OS X build for it's machines... With the G5's being an exception (with the release of 10.2.7)...

Usually it's the current system version + a new build number and obviously drivers for that system.

I have a hard time believing or wondering why they would delay the release of new powermacs because of 10.3.3... Locically like before they would just put 10.3.2 on the CD's with a special build number and the appropriate drivers.

Can anyone think of anything major they would need to change for these new powermacs ? I don't think the 970FX needs a new kernal or new 64bit extensions... unless I am mistaken...

[daveL]

Can anyone think of anything major they would need to change for these new powermacs ? I don't think the 970FX needs a new kernal or new 64bit extensions... unless I am mistaken...
Well, there's PowerTune, which didn't exist in the original 970. There may also be changes to the system controller to accommodate updated bus/memory speeds or changes to Hyperchannel interconnects.

[AidenShaw]

...or changes to Hyperchannel interconnects.

Note that it's "HyperTransport", and that the PPC970FX doesn't have any HyperTransport capability. (Neither does the original PPC970.)

So maybe there are HT changes coming, but that's orthogonal to the issue of changes due to the PPC970FX itself.

[mustang_dvs]

is it just me, or have we seen a LOT of "Mac OS X 10.3.3 (7F_something_) Seeded" rumors? what does this mean? was the origional really buggy?
Trust me, this is not unusual. Most of the OS X releases have seen upwards of 4-5 developer seeds per release. It's why Apple goes beyond internal testing prior to software release - they can't anticipate all configurations and conflicts in-house.


Well they were correct a month ago when they said that powermacs would not come out until March or April. If they are correct about Powermacs coming out within 7-10 days or at the release of 10.3.3 you have to eat your words about MOSR.
Yes, if you noticed, they made that revision to their predictions after MacRumors, AppleInsider and ThinkSecret (and AtAT) said not to expect G5 updates at MacWorld, either in mid-late Feb, or in March/April.

Show me the last time that MOSR made correct assertions, prior to similar rumors being published by MacRumors, TS, AI and AtAT. (And the minor, 'no-duh' predictions, which they are rarely right about, don't count.) And as for 10.3.3., predicting new hardware after a hardware-related release isn't all that insightful.


That sounds like a "newbie" thing to say. Lets have some fun speculation here.Wow, is that a quote or what!
With that in mind, who needs to surf rumour sites?
I was just commenting on the rash of ridiculous "new PowerMacs this Tuesday" rumors that pop up every week. If you're waiting to buy new hardware that you need, don't. If you'd like to upgrade, but can wait, set a target date and if there are no new macs by that point, go ahead and buy the current model. Just because MOSR says "new PowerMac G7e's next month!" doesn't mean its going to happen - software and hardware bugs are hard to predict, and the 90nm G5 is having some problems.


And, as for the 20" iMac problems in the earlier builds, it wasn't pretty, but the NDA prevents me from saying more. Regardless, it was isolated and won't affect you guys.

[MacSlut]

Possibly,in the beginning.

HP has claimed a 10-15 cent difference in price for media. Compared to the price of media, that is a lot for cd-rs and not too bad for dvds.

However, in value... I think it is worth 15 cents. Almost any non-sharpie solution runs about that, and I think this is way cool, especially for burning on the run.

I would expect that initially you would have to get media from Apple, but I also expect that once this became ubiquitous that the media costs would be near nil.

(But you know what, I want one now, because they are so dang cool...)

Also consider the implications of having a better backside than what we currently see on CD-Rs...at least I hope the backsides will be durable...seems likely anyway. If they are durable, then they should market this as another advantage.

[ingenious]

Naw, don't get your hopes up. Judging by www.apple.com, Apple isn't a hardware company anymore. They are only into software and thingy's. :o


Ok ive got to respond to this and point out the obvious:

If apple isnt a hardware company anymore like you say, then who's gonna make a computer for their mac only os? I think that what you said was a little jump-the-gun and not thought through. N/o

[daveL]

Note that it's "HyperTransport", and that the PPC970FX doesn't have any HyperTransport capability. (Neither does the original PPC970.)

So maybe there are HT changes coming, but that's orthogonal to the issue of changes due to the PPC970FX itself.
Of course, you are correct on "HyperTransport". I've been in the business so long, the acronyms are starting to overlap:)

I didn't say a thing about the 970 or 970FX having HyperTransport capability. I was talking about the system and I/O controllers. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[RayCon]

I recently installed upwards of 700 fonts and suddenly neither safari, ichat, nor apple's mail would work for morer than a few seconds before crashing. I thought it might be the fonts, so I took them out and the iapps started to work properly again. Does Panther have a limit for the number of fonts displayed in a menu? They should really work this issue out in the next update.

Maybe it's not the number of fonts you have. One of my font apps showed that I had 1043 fonts installed. No crashes. Have you considered corruption?

[WM.]

I don't understand what this desktop/sidebar volume mounting business is all about? Every time I connect to a network or another computer it mounts on the desktop and in the sidebar for me.
You're using Connect to Server (cmd-K), not the Network icon in the sidebar. When you use the Network icon, in 10.3-10.3.2, the mounted volumes don't show up in the sidebar or on the desktop. 10.3.3 will fix this.
About printing there is one thing that really, really bugs me. When you print.... if you want to switch the orientation to Landscape or Portrait you have to go to Page Setup.. which I ALWAYS forget about. It's not in the Print dialog. When the Print dialog comes up there are so many options and there is no reason it can not be done from there. You can go to Layout Options in the Print dialog but you can't change the orientation? Come on now. I really would like to know the reasoning behind this.
Well, my guess as to the reasoning is that the options in Page Setup affect the way you'll compose your document. If you change the orientation (or the paper size), your word-processing document will change its layout on-screen. But if you change the things in the Layout options in the Print dialog, your document will look the same on-screen, but it will print differently. Also, the options in the Print dialog are things that you might want to change for each printout of the same document, whereas the ones in Page Setup are probably going to stay the same for a given document.

Now you might ask why the Scale option is in Page Setup instead of Print. I really have no idea...I guess maybe it's a remnant of the OS 9 days. Also, I think those Layout options were in Page Setup back in 9, but they moved them for OS X. And it seems like that's just about the only visible change to printing since OS 9 (yes, CUPS is important, but once you get your printer set up, do you really notice it?). The Print dialog hasn't changed much for several years!! I hope that 10.4 brings us some really cool innovation all around, especially in the printing area.
Oh, and when typing in textfields like this one if you could undo your mistakes (cmd-z).... like the one I just made and forgot what I typed previously,
Yeah, I'd like that too. I think I submitted some feedback to the Safari team about that. I suggest you do the same. :)
that would be great.. "mmmm yeaaaaaa" (b. lumberg).
:D Love that movie!!

WM

[crees!]

You're using Connect to Server (cmd-K), not the Network icon in the sidebar. When you use the Network icon, in 10.3-10.3.2, the mounted volumes don't show up in the sidebar or on the desktop. 10.3.3 will fix this.

I got ya. I'm assuming this update will take care of computers not showing up in the Network icon. I only see my computer under it. The only way to connect to other computers for me is via Connect To Server.

[wrldwzrd89]

I got ya. I'm assuming this update will take care of computers not showing up in the Network icon. I only see my computer under it. The only way to connect to other computers for me is via Connect To Server.
I'm having an equally perplexing issue with network shares (well, it isn't on my computer, but I'm helping this person solve it). Anyway, the problem is that when connected via AirPort wireless, AppleTalk shares don't show up on the Network icon. I haven't yet tested an Ethernet connection. On my own computer, I get intermittent issues with computers not showing up in Network. I'm also experiencing an annoying icon bug where my icons randomly get corrupted. To fix it, I have to quit all applications, rebuild my Classic desktop file, then log out and back in for the change to take effect. The afffected icon(s) are always different. I hope 10.3.3 fixes all three of these issues.

[bankshot]

- NFS automounter now maintains connections in use

Interesting. I just reported an automounter bug last weekend, but this description doesn't quite fit it (although I've seen this behavior in certain circumstances too). I suppose I can only dream that they got to my bug this quickly? Then again, I did point them to the source file/lines that I thought were causing the problem, shouldn't have been THAT difficult... ;)

[windowsblowsass]

I don't understand what this desktop/sidebar volume mounting business is all about? Every time I connect to a network or another computer it mounts on the desktop and in the sidebar for me. I'm sure there are other issues that need to be addressed that might be causing this for some people.

About printing there is one thing that really, really bugs me. When you print.... if you want to switch the orientation to Landscape or Portrait you have to go to Page Setup.. which I ALWAYS forget about. It's not in the Print dialog. When the Print dialog comes up there are so many options and there is no reason it can not be done from there. You can go to Layout Options in the Print dialog but you can't change the orientation? Come on now. I really would like to know the reasoning behind this.

Oh, and when typing in textfields like this one if you could undo your mistakes (cmd-z).... like the one I just made and forgot what I typed previously, that would be great.. "mmmm yeaaaaaa" (b. lumberg). the page setup isnt going to change its been that way for years in 7 8 9 x

[wdlove]

The fact, that Apple keeps releasing new interim seeds, can IMHO mean two things, first, and that seems to be obvious, they want to get it right this time and secondly, (provided that Rev B PM G5s do need 10.3.3) couldn't it also mean, that the new PMs are not yet ready for release and won't be announced for some time. Don't they have to finalize the OS update at least a few days, if not weeks, before the new machines are being shipped in order to create OS images and restore CDs/DVDs for the new revision? So I think, as long as the final 10.3.3 is not released, the launch of new PMs can't be iminent.

Your explanations fit into my theory that there will not be a major announcement till WWDC. That give Apple plenty of time to finalize both projects. :)

[DHagan4755]

when connected via AirPort wireless, AppleTalk shares don't show up on the Network icon. I haven't yet tested an Ethernet connection.Are you sure you have Appletalk turned in on in Directory services? It's OFF by default...so you might want to double check.

[WM.]

I'm having an equally perplexing issue with network shares (well, it isn't on my computer, but I'm helping this person solve it). Anyway, the problem is that when connected via AirPort wireless, AppleTalk shares don't show up on the Network icon. I haven't yet tested an Ethernet connection.
In addition to turning on AppleTalk in Directory Services as DHagan4755 said, you may need to make sure that it's active for the AirPort interface (i.e. go to the Network pane in System Preferences, select AirPort from the "Show:" pop-up menu, click on the AppleTalk tab, and make sure that "Make AppleTalk Active" is checked). **Note that, at least in Jaguar, AppleTalk would only be active for one interface at a time (e.g. Ethernet or AirPort), even though you could check the box in the Network pane for any number of interfaces.** This may still be the case in Panther. Hopefully someone who's reading this knows...

HTH
WM

[corradokid]

I recently installed upwards of 700 fonts and suddenly neither safari, ichat, nor apple's mail would work for morer than a few seconds before crashing. I thought it might be the fonts, so I took them out and the iapps started to work properly again. Does Panther have a limit for the number of fonts displayed in a menu? They should really work this issue out in the next update.

Yikes. You should never have that many fonts "enabled" at one time - use Font Book to control which fonts are on/off. Only enable the ones you need, ATM used to do this, along with font substitution and smoothing.

[AidenShaw]

Yikes. You should never have that many fonts "enabled" at one time.

Why not?

Why are you apologizing for what is obviously a weakness in the design of the software? Why should a user even care about (or have to count) how many fonts she has?

Clearly, the software is broken and should be fixed - don't blame the user....

[tmornini]

I'm having an equally perplexing issue with network shares (well, it isn't on my computer, but I'm helping this person solve it). Anyway, the problem is that when connected via AirPort wireless, AppleTalk shares don't show up on the Network icon.

How are you connected?

You need to have the Airport set to bridge to the wireless network for this to happen. The airport is a router, and if routers didn't block this stuff by default, you'd not only be able to see the computers you wanted to see, but every computer connected to the internet. :-)

Bridging was an option on the old single port Airports. On the new two port Airports, bridging is on the LAN port and off (of course) for the WAN port.

[mvc]

Why not?

Why are you apologizing for what is obviously a weakness in the design of the software? Why should a user even care about (or have to count) how many fonts she has?

Clearly, the software is broken and should be fixed - don't blame the user....

Absolutely right - the implementation of fonts and font control should be PERFECT and seamless on an OS with such massive support in the creative arena. There should never have to have been Suitcase, or ATM, or Wysiwyg Menus and all those other workarounds- Apple should have sorted this out years ago, instead they gave up after the graphics industry largely ignored their truetype implementation ( except for pc :eek: )

Fontbook is too little too late. They should properly fix the entire way they use fonts.

[wrldwzrd89]

In addition to turning on AppleTalk in Directory Services as DHagan4755 said, you may need to make sure that it's active for the AirPort interface (i.e. go to the Network pane in System Preferences, select AirPort from the "Show:" pop-up menu, click on the AppleTalk tab, and make sure that "Make AppleTalk Active" is checked). **Note that, at least in Jaguar, AppleTalk would only be active for one interface at a time (e.g. Ethernet or AirPort), even though you could check the box in the Network pane for any number of interfaces.** This may still be the case in Panther. Hopefully someone who's reading this knows...

HTH
WM

Sadly, AppleTalk doesn't seem to be available for AirPort connections in Panther (Network pane of System Preferences). It is enabled in both places. AppleTalk only shows up in the Ethernet interface (there isn't a tab for AppleTalk when AirPort is selected as the interface to configure).

[wrldwzrd89]

How are you connected?

You need to have the Airport set to bridge to the wireless network for this to happen. The airport is a router, and if routers didn't block this stuff by default, you'd not only be able to see the computers you wanted to see, but every computer connected to the internet. :-)

Bridging was an option on the old single port Airports. On the new two port Airports, bridging is on the LAN port and off (of course) for the WAN port.

The wireless connection is made from an AirPort card in the computer to a Linksys Wireless Access Point. Therefore, I don't have this configuration option you mention.

[wrldwzrd89]

Absolutely right - the implementation of fonts and font control should be PERFECT and seamless on an OS with such massive support in the creative arena. There should never have to have been Suitcase, or ATM, or Wysiwyg Menus and all those other workarounds- Apple should have sorted this out years ago, instead they gave up after the graphics industry largely ignored their truetype implementation ( except for pc :eek: )

Fontbook is too little too late. They should properly fix the entire way they use fonts.

What's wrong with font handling in Mac OS X? I've had absolutely no font troubles since getting Mac OS X with the PowerBook 667 I used to have. I had Microsoft Office X installed on it (which installs lots of fonts, and I no longer use), and never once suspected corrupt fonts. Have I just been lucky, or is it because I've never installed other fonts that didn't come with an application?

[spinko]

Absolutely right - the implementation of fonts and font control should be PERFECT and seamless on an OS with such massive support in the creative arena. There should never have to have been Suitcase, or ATM, or Wysiwyg Menus and all those other workarounds- Apple should have sorted this out years ago, instead they gave up after the graphics industry largely ignored their truetype implementation ( except for pc :eek: )

Fontbook is too little too late. They should properly fix the entire way they use fonts.

Right again. All versions of Mac OSX up to now are a _MAJOR_ pain in the a** when it comes to font management, printing and management of the infamous desktop clutter. It's really strange that Apple who boasts the advance of its interface would leave such important parts of it in such a unpolished state ??!! Exposé for example is very sexy but it's useless IMHO when working with similar looking windows and doesn't adhere to one simple interface rule : no moving targets ! And just to round it off the window hiding "feature" sucks big time. Try hiding a two or more windows in Safari, then switch to the Finder, then switch back to Safari... see what I mean ? Like it or not but the much critisized "Task Bar" in the PC world is still more efficient to use. It's really laughable. I must be masochist to use this overpriced/overhyped stuff.

[NicoMan]

that's orthogonal to the issue

I had never heard of that expression before (and I DO know what orthogonal means in terms of geometry).
Oh well, one learn new things every day...

[NicoMan]

The wireless connection is made from an AirPort card in the computer to a Linksys Wireless Access Point. Therefore, I don't have this configuration option you mention.
I guess there is way to set the access point as a bridge, whether it is a Linksys or some other brand. You need to disable its NAT (aka IP address sharing) features I believe. You will probably also need to turn the DHCP off on the access point if there is already a DHCP on your network.

[netu40]

since 1984, i have owned macs, every update ,patches, every operating system upgrade i have ever installed, installed WITHOUT A PROBLEM !

[AidenShaw]

I had never heard of that expression before (and I DO know what orthogonal means in terms of geometry).

Yes, it's a bit of techno-jargon that's changed a bit from its original meaning...


From http://www.dictionary.com

Source: The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing, © 1993-2003 Denis Howe


orthogonal adj. [from mathematics] Mutually independent; well separated; sometimes, irrelevant to.

Used in a generalization of its mathematical meaning to describe sets of primitives or capabilities that, like a vector basis in geometry, span the entire `capability space' of the system and are in some sense non-overlapping or mutually independent.

For example, in architectures such as the PDP-11 or VAX where all or nearly all registers can be used interchangeably in any role with respect to any instruction, the register set is said to be orthogonal. Or, in logic, the set of operators `not' and `or' is orthogonal, but the set `nand', `or', and `not' is not (because any one of these can be expressed in terms of the others).

Also used in comments on human discourse: "This may be orthogonal to the discussion, but...."

[wrldwzrd89]

I guess there is way to set the access point as a bridge, whether it is a Linksys or some other brand. You need to disable its NAT (aka IP address sharing) features I believe. You will probably also need to turn the DHCP off on the access point if there is already a DHCP on your network.

Okay, I will investigate this possibility. I do not need the NAT feature enabled or DHCP because both of those functions are provided by our router.

[wrldwzrd89]

Right again. All versions of Mac OSX up to now are a _MAJOR_ pain in the a** when it comes to font management, printing and management of the infamous desktop clutter. It's really strange that Apple who boasts the advance of its interface would leave such important parts of it in such a unpolished state ??!! Exposé for example is very sexy but it's useless IMHO when working with similar looking windows and doesn't adhere to one simple interface rule : no moving targets ! And just to round it off the window hiding "feature" sucks big time. Try hiding a two or more windows in Safari, then switch to the Finder, then switch back to Safari... see what I mean ? Like it or not but the much critisized "Task Bar" in the PC world is still more efficient to use. It's really laughable. I must be masochist to use this overpriced/overhyped stuff.

First of all, regarding Exposé, the windows must move around for it to do its job. Having the windows move when Exposé is activated is a "necessary evil", if you will. Which window hiding feature are you referring to? The "Minimize to Dock" hiding or the "Show Desktop" feature of Exposé? I must admit that I've never tried hiding windows, switching applications, then switching back to where I was. Maybe I should try this and report back on these forums?

<edit> By the way, you hit the nail on the head regarding the desktop clutter issue. As far as I know, Mac OS X doesn't include any method for organizing icons put on the desktop by a particular user.</edit>

[kcmac]

I haven't hidden apps since Exposé was released. I like being able to see every open window or just seeing all open windows in the same app.

I just don't get how the windows taskbar, which just shows a name can be easier than Exposé which shows a name and a picture.

Sorry it doesn't seem to work for you but it has made things much easier for me. Especially the ability to drag and drop from within Exposé. Can you do that with the Windows Taskbar?

[bpd115]

<edit> By the way, you hit the nail on the head regarding the desktop clutter issue. As far as I know, Mac OS X doesn't include any method for organizing icons put on the desktop by a particular user.</edit>

Correct me if I'm wrong but can you go to view options, and keep arranged checked and have the desktop organize icons however you wish? I only have my 2 hard drives, idisk, and sometimes my ipod on my desktop anyway...I hate having a lot of icons on my desktop.

[spinko]

First of all, regarding Exposé, the windows must move around for it to do its job. Having the windows move when Exposé is activated is a "necessary evil", if you will. Which window hiding feature are you referring to? The "Minimize to Dock" hiding or the "Show Desktop" feature of Exposé?

(sorry if I'm off-topic)

I was referring to the "Minimize to Dock" feature... I acknowledge that some people may prefer to stack all windows and have them all visible. I mostly use 3-4 applications at the same time and switch between them very often. I seem to be constantly adjusting window sizes (on the tiny triangle on the bottom of the window) and window positions to accomodate my workspace). This never seemed to be a problem in OS9 because one rarely had multiple programs open due to memory limitations or fear of provoking a crash. Now, with OSX it is natural to have 10+ apps open at any one time which is very nice but there is no real solution to handle then efficiently. Having to hit F9 or some other key to activate it doesn't strike me as beeing very intuitive. I've programmed the middle button on my 3rd party mouse (thank you Apple) to show all windows (exept the ones hidden by the "Minimize to Dock" feature which just adds to the confusion

[zync]

The bug you're referring to, which affected 20" iMacs, was only in the initially-seeded build of 10.3.3 and was never released to the public. And 10.2.7 was never offered via the SWU panel because it was a compatibility release for the G5 hardware, not for other Macs.

Well, I don't know if it's been said and I don't have time right now to read the entire thread, but 10.2.7 was also released with the new PowerBooks as well as the G5's...but I do imagine you're correct in your assertion that it wasn't available via SU....

[wrldwzrd89]

Well, I don't know if it's been said and I don't have time right now to read the entire thread, but 10.2.7 was also released with the new PowerBooks as well as the G5's...but I do imagine you're correct in your assertion that it wasn't available via SU....

zync, you are correct regarding Mac OS X V10.2.7. It was only included with PowerMac G5s and other new computers released between its arrival and that of the first, buggy 10.2.8 (like the PowerBooks; was there another?). It was never released via Software Update.

[zync]

zync, you are correct regarding Mac OS X V10.2.7. It was only included with PowerMac G5s and other new computers released between its arrival and that of the first, buggy 10.2.8 (like the PowerBooks; was there another?). It was never released via Software Update.

Yeah I was going to mention that. The original poster wasn't sure what OS version it was that was buggy....he typed 10.2.7? I guess mustang_dvs didn't see his question mark? Anyway, yeah, it was the initial release of 10.2.8....

[zync]

I haven't hidden apps since Exposé was released. I like being able to see every open window or just seeing all open windows in the same app.

I just don't get how the windows taskbar, which just shows a name can be easier than Exposé which shows a name and a picture.

Sorry it doesn't seem to work for you but it has made things much easier for me. Especially the ability to drag and drop from within Exposé. Can you do that with the Windows Taskbar?


I'm not sure what exactly you mean by dragging and dropping from within Exposé....what would you do with drag and drop in Exposé? Did you mean the dock possibly? In Windows you can drag things to the taskbar. Actually they're very similar. For most drag and drop type stuff the dock excels but there is one thing that Windows does that totally beats out the dock, but not in terms of clutter.

Windows programs like IE can open multiple windows. Each window in certain programs on MS systems is a seperate task, that way when IE crashes only the window that has the problem would die, leaving the rest of the pages open. In OS X they're all children of a single instance of Safari or IE or whatever so when one page has a fatal error they all die. This bugged me when IE crashed on my Mac a while back, before I could finally use Safari for everything (though it has crashed too just not as often). Now I'm not saying Windows was able to easily back out of an IE crash and leave you with the rest of the windows all the time but it stood more of a chance. If this could be done with OS X somehow I know it would work better than the Windows implementation. I'm going to suggest this to Apple.

What bothers me is that I like to hide programs sometimes (not on the dock but actually by using HIDE) but when I use Exposé they remain hidden. This is also true of windows residing in the dock. It would be nice that when you use Exposé to see all windows, you actually see all windows including those visible, hidden, and residing in the dock. I'm going to suggest this to Apple as well.

One last thing that I'm going to suggest is that when you Cmd-Tab to an Application, if it has hidden windows it opens up at least the last window you were working on! It's pretty annoying to Cmd-Tab to something and get nothing to show up. For that I might as well just click on the dock icon!

I'd also like to see a folder view similar to the filmstrip view in Windows XP. I think 2000 may have also had that feature.

Do these things bother any of you guys too? I just came from the Windows world last September. I've only had my PowerBook for about 6 months now so these things are still fresh in my mind. Overall though OS X totally blows Windows out of the water!

[wdlove]

since 1984, i have owned macs, every update ,patches, every operating system upgrade i have ever installed, installed WITHOUT A PROBLEM !

I have been with Apple myself since 1984 also. Don't remember any really big glitches either.

[wrldwzrd89]

I have been with Apple myself since 1984 also. Don't remember any really big glitches either.
I started in 1986, but I've also had very few troubles with Macs I've owned. The only exception I can remember was when I bought my current computer, a 17" iMac, and experienced random freezes and kernel panics after I used it for 5 minutes or so. Even that was solved (relatively) easily - a trip to the local Apple Store and a Power Management Unit reset cured the problem; it's been (major) glitch-free ever since.

[bousozoku]

since 1984, i have owned macs, every update ,patches, every operating system upgrade i have ever installed, installed WITHOUT A PROBLEM !

I guess you missed 7.5.x on PowerMac. I restarted the machine more in a month than I have with Mac OS X in a year. Error 10 and 11 appeared far too often. If I didn't see one of those errors in two days' time, I didn't have the machine powered on. It wasn't until 7.6.1 that things were truly stable.

I'm not always happy about the way things are today, but they're better than they were--even the font file situation. Anyone remember Font/DA mover or Suitcase from way back when?

[mustang_dvs]

The original poster wasn't sure what OS version it was that was buggy....he typed 10.2.7? I guess mustang_dvs didn't see his question mark? Anyway, yeah, it was the initial release of 10.2.8....
Okay, I mis-interpreted it as the poster saying that '10.2.7 was pulled from general release due to bugs' or something along those lines.

[zync]

Okay, I mis-interpreted it as the poster saying that '10.2.7 was pulled from general release due to bugs' or something along those lines.

Thought so :D

[hayesk]

I guess you missed 7.5.x on PowerMac. I restarted the machine more in a month than I have with Mac OS X in a year. Error 10 and 11 appeared far too often. If I didn't see one of those errors in two days' time, I didn't have the machine powered on. It wasn't until 7.6.1 that things were truly stable.

I can only assume it was 7.5.2 - the first OS on the first PCI Macs - yep, lots of bugs in that one. 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 were very stable though.

[bousozoku]

I can only assume it was 7.5.2 - the first OS on the first PCI Macs - yep, lots of bugs in that one. 7.5.3 and 7.5.5 were very stable though.

7.5.x means every release of 7.5, which would include a 7.5.9, if it had existed.

[beg_ne]

Exposé for example is very sexy but it's useless IMHO when working with similar looking windows and doesn't adhere to one simple interface rule : no moving targets ! And just to round it off the window hiding "feature" sucks big time. Try hiding a two or more windows in Safari, then switch to the Finder, then switch back to Safari... see what I mean ? Like it or not but the much critisized "Task Bar" in the PC world is still more efficient to use. It's really laughable. I must be masochist to use this overpriced/overhyped stuff.

1. I've never had a problem discerning different windows when Expose'd, if there is any doubt, just mouse over them and see the title, easy.

2.I don't see the big deal with Expose and the moving target rule, it's not like the windows move around after they are expose'd and you have to chase after them. After you're done all the windows go back to where they were and all windows expose to the same location where they were(or close enough atleast). Seems easy enough to me. I'd much rather deal with the "trauma" of having easily recognizable windows that scale and move into an orderly fashion than have to go through the time wasting procedure of digging though half a dozen windows moving and resizing some as i go along to find the one thing i want.

3. Please explain what you mean by "hiding feature". Do you mean minimizing or actually hiding (Command+H), or something else and what's wrong with it exactly?

I'd almost gather from your parting lines that you are actually a PC troll who has had little to no experience using Expose. Your Windows taskbar comparison is really laughable IMO. I run windows everyday at work, and had used windows basically everyday extensively since Win95. Expose is far and away better than the taskbar ever could be.

After the windows taskbar gets more than about 4 different windows listed it becomes exponentially useless.

There are two equally useless options for the windows taskbar.
A) Window grouping. Which usually means i have 1 group that says "Microsoft Outlook" one that says "Mozilla Firefox" and one that says "Macromeida Dreamweaver" with one or two ungrouped windows.

At this point i have to make atleast 2 clicks to find a window and i have to move my mouse away from all the windows to the taskbar to even check. Whats worse is that the grouping has caused a moving target, as the 6th window i opened up is now grouped in 2nd place with the first mozilla window i opened up. Whats worse is if lets say i'm testing 2 or 3 pages from the same site, from the grouping all the mozilla windows will have the same title tag making it impossible to choose the one i want without randomly clicking through each window listed in the group.

B) Dont use groups and have a dozen 50 pixel wide listings in the taskbar, with oh so useful names as "M.." "M...", F...", "Ja...", "In...". Completely useless and also creates moving target as the listings get more and more squashed.

[spinko]

1. I've never had a problem discerning different windows when Expose'd, if there is any doubt, just mouse over them and see the title, easy.

if you open several windows with the same title (command-n) for instance then Exposé them. They are all the same.

2.I don't see the big deal with Expose and the moving target rule, it's not like the windows move around after they are expose'd and you have to chase after them. After you're done all the windows go back to where they were and all windows expose to the same location where they were(or close enough atleast). Seems easy enough to me. I'd much rather deal with the "trauma" of having easily recognizable windows that scale and move into an orderly fashion than have to go through the time wasting procedure of digging though half a dozen windows moving and resizing some as i go along to find the one thing i want.

I'm sorry but in my working pattern I seem to be chasing after them all the time..

3. Please explain what you mean by "hiding feature". Do you mean minimizing or actually hiding (Command+H), or something else and what's wrong with it exactly?

No, I meant command-M = minimizing, sorry. To minimize a series of windows from a same app you can option-click the (-) icon. When you switch back to the app all you get is the menu bar at the top of the screen. How are you supposed to know that the series of minimized icons on the right side of the dock belong to the app especially if you have minimized windows from more than one app ? You have to hover over the minimized icons or use the "windows menu". I don't think either is better than the winblows counterpart.

I'd almost gather from your parting lines that you are actually a PC troll who has had little to no experience using Expose. Your Windows taskbar comparison is really laughable IMO. I run windows everyday at work, and had used windows basically everyday extensively since Win95. Expose is far and away better than the taskbar ever could be.

I've been using Macs for a very long time. I'm actually more of a Mac troll who's just had to discover Windows XP. The reason being Macromedia: Dreamweaver, Fireworks and Flash all run much faster on a PC (unless of course you own a 2x2Ghz G5 computer or you plan to get one but then you don't because the "old" ones haven't been updated in months.. but that's another story). I also prefer the compact stuck-together style interface on XP to the floating-around style interface on OSX which continually needs to be repositioned and rearranged.

After the windows taskbar gets more than about 4 different windows listed it becomes exponentially useless.

There are two equally useless options for the windows taskbar.
A) Window grouping. Which usually means i have 1 group that says "Microsoft Outlook" one that says "Mozilla Firefox" and one that says "Macromeida Dreamweaver" with one or two ungrouped windows.

At this point i have to make atleast 2 clicks to find a window and i have to move my mouse away from all the windows to the taskbar to even check. Whats worse is that the grouping has caused a moving target, as the 6th window i opened up is now grouped in 2nd place with the first mozilla window i opened up. Whats worse is if lets say i'm testing 2 or 3 pages from the same site, from the grouping all the mozilla windows will have the same title tag making it impossible to choose the one i want without randomly clicking through each window listed in the group.

B) Dont use groups and have a dozen 50 pixel wide listings in the taskbar, with oh so useful names as "M.." "M...", F...", "Ja...", "In...". Completely useless and also creates moving target as the listings get more and more squashed.

the Dock isn't much better at that. See the minisucle icons on the right side and the total absence of any form of grouping. Besides the fact that it is always getting in the way or slow to appear when in hidden mode... (But i think we are off topic again :)

[beg_ne]

10.3.3 just showed up in my software update! Sweet!

[spinko]

yes ! and they've changed the dock into a task bar :)

[WM.]

Sadly, AppleTalk doesn't seem to be available for AirPort connections in Panther (Network pane of System Preferences). It is enabled in both places. AppleTalk only shows up in the Ethernet interface (there isn't a tab for AppleTalk when AirPort is selected as the interface to configure).
It works just dandy for me. You really don't have an AppleTalk tab? For me, on 10.3.2, when I'm configuring the AirPort interface, it looks like this:

( AirPort | TCP/IP | AppleTalk | Proxies )

(I love ASCII art!! :D )

Assuming you are seeing that tab, you should try disabling AppleTalk for the Ethernet interface and then enabling it for AirPort. Maybe restart after doing that to make sure.

Although there is plenty of weirdness when it comes to AppleTalk on OS X, it does work (pretty much flawlessly for me). If you're having problems where you're not seeing tabs in the UI or it's not working at all, something is seriously wrong with your system. Again, check to make sure that the box in Directory Services (correction: Directory Access) is checked.

HTH
WM

[spinko]

Sadly, AppleTalk doesn't seem to be available for AirPort connections in Panther (Network pane of System Preferences). It is enabled in both places. AppleTalk only shows up in the Ethernet interface (there isn't a tab for AppleTalk when AirPort is selected as the interface to configure).

I had the same problem. In my case it was due to the fact that the Access Point device I used (D-Link DWL900AP+) didn't support Appletalk. So, any Appletalk printers for example wouldn't show up in the printer list.

[zync]

if you open several windows with the same title (command-n) for instance then Exposé them. They are all the same.



I'm sorry but in my working pattern I seem to be chasing after them all the time..



No, I meant command-M = minimizing, sorry. To minimize a series of windows from a same app you can option-click the (-) icon. When you switch back to the app all you get is the menu bar at the top of the screen. How are you supposed to know that the series of minimized icons on the right side of the dock belong to the app especially if you have minimized windows from more than one app ? You have to hover over the minimized icons or use the "windows menu". I don't think either is better than the winblows counterpart.



I've been using Macs for a very long time. I'm actually more of a Mac troll who's just had to discover Windows XP. The reason being Macromedia: Dreamweaver, Fireworks and Flash all run much faster on a PC (unless of course you own a 2x2Ghz G5 computer or you plan to get one but then you don't because the "old" ones haven't been updated in months.. but that's another story). I also prefer the compact stuck-together style interface on XP to the floating-around style interface on OSX which continually needs to be repositioned and rearranged.



the Dock isn't much better at that. See the minisucle icons on the right side and the total absence of any form of grouping. Besides the fact that it is always getting in the way or slow to appear when in hidden mode... (But i think we are off topic again :)

How come I say the same thing that he says and you reply to him :D Oh well, I pretty much mentioned what you said as well....actually it's his fault, he must've not seen my post! In any case I already had you guys' conversation a page ago.

[TorbX]

yes ! and they've changed the dock into a task bar :)

They what? What is that?

[Yvan256]

I've never heard of these before but they look really cool! I want one!!!

Question though: presumably it uses up ink or something to burn that on - where/how do you refill?

LightScribe burns the label side of special LightScribe-capable media. There's no printing involved.

You need a LightScribe-capable drive, LightScribe-capable media, and LightScribe-capable software.

And unlike the one from Yamaha, this one can "print" on the whole surface, and the contrast is much better.

[Montserrat]

How did this thread get back on the Front page rumours bit? I know I'm not helping by adding to the thread, but wtf is going on?

By the way Exposé is so hot (Belated response to message thread)

[johnnyjibbs]

How did this thread get back on the Front page rumours bit? I know I'm not helping by adding to the thread, but wtf is going on?

By the way Exposé is so hot (Belated response to message thread)
Yvan256 dug up an old thread to provide the answer to my question, hence it is back on the front page for being "hot" (i.e. recent posts). Nothing more.