McDonald's Switches to Sony?

[MacRumors]

LATimes reports (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-sony22mar22,1,611649.story) (registration required) that McDonald's has forged a deal with Sony to offer free songs from Sony's new online music service - Sony Connect.

Free songs will be given away with the purchase of certain items from McDonald's. The deal is expected to be announced this week.

According to LA Times' sources, McDonald's and Apple had been negotiating a similar deal (previously rumored (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2004/02/20040203101025.shtml)) "but switched plans after a last-minute pitch from Sony".

[arn]

For all the Anti-McDonald's people... I guess you better watch what you wish for. Despite all the people who complained that Apple should not be partnering with McDonald's.... here's the alternative... Someone else is.

arn

[e-coli]

Who really cares.

Most people avoid McDonald's like the plague these days.

Ronald McDoanld is the Anti-Christ

[tazznb]

Was it ever Mc D's & Apple?

It could have been this way from the start, but you know how rumors are often misconstrued.

[TBR]

Bad news for everyone but sony

[wrldwzrd89]

For all the Anti-McDonald's people... I guess you better watch what you wish for. Despite all the people who complained that Apple should not be partnering with McDonald's.... here's the alternative... Someone else is.

arn
Here's the thing: I wasn't so sure that Apple partnering with McDonalds was such a great idea, but I also don't think having them partner up with Sony is a great thing for Apple either. Therefore, I can't reasonably give a positive or negative rating to this item.

[nagromme]

At least the second big promo (after Apple-Pepsi) is Sony and not some Microsoft WMA store. (There's some snack-chip promo now too... but it doesn't even SAY what store the downloads are from.)

I think Apple can survive a few other company's getting some airtime :) Especially Sony--their service is apparently only for their own players, just like Apple... only Sony doesn't have the iPod! The worst of all worlds.

BTW... I notice that both WMA and Sony's ATRAC format (used in their online store) just lost out to AAC for inclusion on Audio DVDs:

http://www.macdailynews.com/comments.php?id=P2366_0_1_0

[javabear90]

does sony even have a music store??? at least it's not microsoft

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65063

-Ted

[wordmunger]

I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with the marketing on the Apple/Pepsi promotion. Yeah, they show that commercial every once in a while, but in the grocery store, where you actually buy the drinks, there's nothing. Meanwhile there's a huge display with candy bars (baby ruth I think) offering "Download free music!"

[proglife]

Good. That would be bad karma anyways. McDonalds is the devil.

[Griffindor73]

I think this is a good thing. McDonalds does not have a good image, well, certainly not here in the UK, I think that they are seen as trashy + very dodgy image on the environmental front too- so I am personally pleased that Apple are not doing a promotion with them.

[Stike]

Well, Burger King is still an option, and we like to have options ;):D

[PlaceofDis]

could be worse - apple could have partnered with McDonalds and it would have flopped...now apple just needs to find a good place to partner with.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[JJTiger1]

Of course the kid behind the cash register will ask you:
a. "Would you like cheese on that?" :rolleyes:
b. "Would you like to Super-Size?" :p
c. "Would you like an Apple turnover with that?" :eek:
d. "Will that be for here or to go?" ;)
=-=
Correct answer: C.

[morkintosh]

does sony even have a music store??? at least it's not microsoft


it'd be better if it were microsoft; the only way to make real money long term in online music, is to have control of a record label ... which sony does

[Dj Kioto]

Guess Apple's getting a karmic bite in the rear for stealing HP away from napster... I just hope this doesn't happen in threes...

Apple seems to be expanding their market influence to a much larger crowd... does it matter that we few woudln't go to Mc D's? We would also probably not buy an HP computer or HPod, yet, Apple has extended it's reach into that arena.

Enough people are drawn to Mc D's promotional campaigns when they happen regardless of their desire for the food there, that's how Mc D's intends it... Monopoly?

Though I dont think this will help Sony enough to knock iTMS out of place, as Sony doesn't realky have a huge buzz to build on. But it could have been a boon to Apple, they have the iPod Buzz, traffic increased after their Pepsi promo regardless of they questioned success of the campaign, and to reach the billons served under the golden arches would have given then more market visibility... after all, we'd all love to see apple see anything, even more iPods, and iTunes songs... and I still talk to people who dont know what apple computer is, or what a macintosh is... and Apple's market share can't grow if the market doesn't know it's there...


Note: to those who would say that the Apple vision of quality/cost is completely at odds with mc donald's vision of quality/cost, I agree completely, and that is one of the reasons against the partnership

[mrsebastian]

not really sure mcd's is really someone apple should partner with, food wise and for targeting an age group. i would consider marketing in movie theaters with the music for the onscreen advertising (naturally sponsored by apple itms). i'd also do ipod (mini) give-aways, so if someone has a certain ticket number they win, or even a free song with every ticket purchase.

[coolfactor]

At first I was disappointed that Apple seems to be partnering with big brands at the cost of consumers, but then I realized that it is really up to the consumer to take care of themselves. Yes, we are slaughtered by marketing these days, but we don't *have* to be influenced or affected by it.. if we are, we are choosing to be, and then we only have ourselves to blame.

So, given that, the Sony-McDonald's promotion is going to be HUGE visibility for iTunes competition. I can't wait to see the Sony Music Store software.

I was impressed that they seem to be supporting platforms other than just Windows, even if their website is a bit outdated. (The CONNECT beta test is still advertised, but no longer available for signup.)

[morkens]

Really, I could make the change to drink some Pepsi-

But it would have taken more than a free song to lure me back to McD's after 5+ strict years of avoiding the place!

[railthinner]

If Apple would strike a deal with Heineken or Guinness I'd be getting a lot more free songs than through Pepsi sickDonalds.

[coolfactor]

Now I could really go for a partnership with Tim Horton's. That place has a selection of treats and healthy food, and is very popular, moreso than many McD restaurants.

[Tulse]

This deal is supposedly worth $30 million, and "One person familiar with the McDonald's deal said the fast-food company would probably give away more than 100 million Sony Connect songs in the U.S."

That's a far cry from the alleged 1 billion songs that McDs was rumoured to promote for iTunes. I also wonder, given the monetary size of the promotion, if that 100 million figure isn't the actual number of anticipated redemptions, but, like Pepsi, is the number of winning pieces distributed.

All in all, it's somewhat of a loss for Apple, sure. But it's not nearly as big a deal for Sony as the Apple deal was rumoured to be.

[DGFan]

Sony's service will have all of the drawbacks of the iTunes Music Store:
their own format
- so only works in their software (at least for the encryption in Apple's case)
- and only works on their player

plus some more:
will only have Sony music, not everyone

and none of the advantages of the iTunes Music Store:
works with the #1 iPod

McDonalds isn't going to get people coming into the store solely for the purpose of free Sony downloads. That would have happened with the Apple agreement. Oh well. Poor, stupid McDonalds.

[thejoshu]

Now I could really go for a partnership with Tim Horton's. That place has a selection of treats and healthy food, and is very popular, moreso than many McD restaurants.

Except that most people have actually *heard* of McDonald's.

[Over Achiever]

Why not subway? That place is decent. Or Quiznos. A sandwich place is a "decent" alternative to say burgers and fries.

Altho' Arbys holds a special place in my heart ... :D

-OA

[the_mole1314]

Dear god people, is McDs the best place in the world? No. But in the past it has shown how well it can do in these types of promotions. Plus McDs has tons of marketing power and might that can push iTunes. I don't care if OJ or some great place to eat does a promotion like this, people don't buy those things like they do fast food or soda. Look at consumer trends and ideas. Do you think people are going to look under the cap of milk for a free song? Step back from the quality aspect of things and look at the promotion side of things.

[Trowaman]

Why not subway? That place is decent. Or Quiznos. A sandwich place is a "decent" alternative to say burgers and fries.

Altho' Arbys holds a special place in my heart ... :D

-OA

Could do the best of both worlds and do Jack in the Box :D
They have burgers (ULTIMATE CHEESEBURGER!) and sandwiches.
eh, the Pannido isn't that great, but it's a footlong of sandwichy goodness.

For those wondering, I'm not fat but I do have a small gut. :eek:

[fixyourthinking]

For all the Anti-McDonald's people... I guess you better watch what you wish for. Despite all the people who complained that Apple should not be partnering with McDonald's.... here's the alternative... Someone else is.

arn

I concur ... but I would also like to place a partial blame on Apple for partnering with Pepsi to begin with.

While I realize that Pepsi owns Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut - these three entities combined don't have the brand recognition (or number of restaurants) that McDonald's does.

Coke and MacDonald's promotions would have yield A LOT greater redemption rate than the Pepsi promotion will.

I suspect the MacDonald's exclusive use of coca cola products and coca cola's input into the matter had "something to do with the decision" as well.

[QuiteSure]

I think McDonald's is making a big mistake. Right now, iPod is the brand. When kids ask their parents for a music player, they're most likely asking for an iPod, not a [generic] music player. Retailers can overcome the initial disappointment when a buyer intends to buy an iPod and then is directed toward a different music player, but it does take that much more effort. Once it becomes known that the Sony tunes do not play on the leading iPod, there will be a backlash. That will more likely be directed against Sony and McDonald's than against Apple, who is really just a bystander and, after all, has its own excellent music download service.

[QuiteSure]

I concur ... but I would also like to place a partial blame on Apple for partnering with Pepsi to begin with.

While I realize that Pepsi owns Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut - these three entities combined don't have the brand recognition (or number of restaurants) that McDonald's does.

Coke and MacDonald's promotions would have yield A LOT greater redemption rate than the Pepsi promotion will.

I suspect the MacDonald's exclusive use of coca cola products and coca cola's input into the matter had "something to do with the decision" as well.

Pepsi itunes promos can also be redeemed from winning cups at 7-11s, so you can buy Diet Coke and still win!

Besides, who's to say that Apple caused the problem with the McDonald's promo? Sony may have made an offer that Apple couldn't reasonably meet and that McDonald's just couldn't refuse.

[LethalWolfe]

Who really cares.

Most people avoid McDonald's like the plague these days.

Ronald McDoanld is the Anti-Christ

LOL. Most people aviod McDonald's like the plague? You've got to be kidding.

McDonald's is the worlds largest resturant<sp?> company and has only posted a quarterly loss *once* in the history of the company.

I don't care what people's personal opinions about McDonald's are from a business and marketing stand point this is Apple's loss and Sony's gain.


Lethal

[autrefois]

For all the Anti-McDonald's people... I guess you better watch what you wish for. Despite all the people who complained that Apple should not be partnering with McDonald's.... here's the alternative... Someone else is.

arn

I was one of those wishing Apple would not become associated with McDonalds. I am very happy that McDonalds is NOT going with Apple.

I believe McDonalds, besides being a bad corporate citizen, is losing popularity here and abroad. I remember that recently they were in the red for one quarter, for the first time in their long history.

So if my wishing helped keep Apple and McDonalds apart, I'm actually very happy. :) Apple can hopefully forge many more partnerships with less notorious companies.

[autrefois]

LOL. Most people aviod McDonald's like the plague? You've got to be kidding.

McDonald's is the worlds largest resturant<sp?> company and has only posted a quarterly loss *once* in the history of the company.

I don't care what people's personal opinions about McDonald's are from a business and marketing stand point this is Apple's loss and Sony's gain.


Lethal

I see we both thought of the same thing, about McDonalds recent quarterly loss. The important thing is that it was VERY recently that this happened. I unfortunately don't have time to look up which quarter it was (anyone?), but I'm pretty sure it was about a year ago.Does anyone know how they've been doing since?

I think most people in the US associate McDonalds either with kids food or mostly with fattening, unhealthy food--thus their decision to get rid of Super Sizing in the near future, supposedly for reasons of "menu simplification." :)

I think Apple should create positive partnerships instead of just big ones.

[joemama]

If Apple would strike a deal with Heineken or Guinness I'd be getting a lot more free songs than through Pepsi sickDonalds.


...or Anheiser-Busch! (sp)

Could you imagine?

[mian]

I see we both thought of the same thing, about McDonalds recent quarterly loss. The important thing is that it was VERY recently that this happened. I unfortunately don't have time to look up which quarter it was (anyone?), but I'm pretty sure it was about a year ago.Does anyone know how they've been doing since?

I think most people in the US associate McDonalds either with kids food or mostly with fattening, unhealthy food--thus their decision to get rid of Super Sizing in the near future, supposedly for reasons of "menu simplification." :)

I think Apple should create positive partnerships instead of just big ones.

McDonalds has actually turned things around. Their stock has doubled over the last year and they're getting good press. (see forbes)

[Doctor Q]

OK, I'm boycotting McDonald's for picking the wrong business partner. Of course, my personal boycott might not have much effect, since I haven't been in a McD's in years anyway. :p

Stepping back and looking at trends, I wonder if online music is becoming free again, not because it's sold for no profit, but because corporate giveaways will become so commonplace that most people will get their music that way.

Think about discounts on car rentals; so many organizations offer them that it's silly to pay full price to rent a car. Airline miles are everywhere too.

So maybe that's where we are headed. You'll get a few tunes when you buy groceries, a few when you stop at the cleaners, a few with your video rental, and a few at every fast food restaurant.

[fixyourthinking]

Pepsi itunes promos can also be redeemed from winning cups at 7-11s, so you can buy Diet Coke and still win!

Besides, who's to say that Apple caused the problem with the McDonald's promo? Sony may have made an offer that Apple couldn't reasonably meet and that McDonald's just couldn't refuse.


Not technically - you are suppose to use the other cups - the two 7-11's I have been in specifically read on the dispenser - "Please use the cups that are on this dispenser only. Thank you"

Now, the way you CAN get a free chance is by doing something that IS legal and IS allowed - double cupping.

I would suspect you are somewhat right on the "deal they couldn't refuse" - I imagine Sony is footing SOME of the bill for this promotion - whereas Apple is getting 0.94 per song redeamed from the Pepsi Promo - so Apple isn't footing any of the promo costs - in fact, still making a few cents per song.

But, the topic of Pepsi promoting iTunes was a subject of the shareholder's meeting at Coca Cola - so don't think they didn't have input.

[mac-er]

Altho' Arbys holds a special place in my heart ... :D
-OA

This makes me think of three quotes from the Simpsons...

Neighbor: "An opossum drowned in the swimming pool. Can we borrow a garbage bag?"
Kirk Van Houten: "Aaaah, just throw it over the fence and let Arby's worry about it." :D

and another:

"I'm so hungry, I could eat at Arby's" :)

and, yet another...

Marge: "People do crazy things in commercials, like eat at Arby's!" :rolleyes:

[Dahl]

There are plenty of places, that could take McD's place.

But it has a be a nation wide and big enough chain. Who knows, maybe Burger King will get on now, since they won't be held back by their rivals.

[SilvorX]

Now I could really go for a partnership with Tim Horton's. That place has a selection of treats and healthy food, and is very popular, moreso than many McD restaurants.
ABOUT TIME SOMEONE SAYS THAT!!!!!!!!!!

I was thinking about it for a few weeks now, Timmies and Apple SHOULD partner up in both the US and Canada, maybe next year for the rrrrrrrrrrrroll up the rim to win contest, there could be a 1/3 chance of winning instead of 1/9, 1/3 meaning most of the prizes being iTMS songs ;)

I freaking love going to tim hortons, and I haven't won yet for this year's rrrrrrroll up the rim to win contest :(, 0/10

If Timmies and apple partner up when the store comes up here in Canada, it's going to be huge, bye bye purecrud i say, everyone in Canada knows timmies, but I doubt it would happen (wendys owns tim's now days :()

[vpalvarez]

Well, Burger King is still an option, and we like to have options ;):D

I'd take Jack in the Box over BK anytime
I hope Apple would too.

[mac-er]

I was thinking about it for a few weeks now, Timmies and Apple SHOULD partner up in both the US and Canada...

The problem here is that Tim Horton's only has 180 locaitons in the US and they are mostly along the border in Michigan, I think.

Maybe Tim Horton's in Canada and Wendy's in the US.

[SilvorX]

The problem here is that Tim Horton's only has 180 locaitons in the US and they are mostly along the border in Michigan, I think.

Maybe Tim Horton's in Canada and Wendy's in the US.
ya maybe, but then again there's quite a few new wendys locations that are part wendys and part tims now, one of them being located 2 blocks from my aunt's new home. Tims=iTMS :P, it only makes sense. We'll just have to wait and see though

[powerofthekiwi]

Dear god people, is McDs the best place in the world? No. But in the past it has shown how well it can do in these types of promotions. Plus McDs has tons of marketing power and might that can push iTunes. I don't care if OJ or some great place to eat does a promotion like this, people don't buy those things like they do fast food or soda. Look at consumer trends and ideas. Do you think people are going to look under the cap of milk for a free song? Step back from the quality aspect of things and look at the promotion side of things.

... good grief - if only apples marketing team could grasp that concept! Then the whole world would be using macs! (well, maybe not... :))

[Some_Big_Spoon]

McDonald's demographic, while (sadly) widespread, is of the toothless, fat, and slack-jawed. Not really the image you get when thinking of Apple Computer.

Something/some place cooler, with a higher median IQ (above room temp) would do them justice.

Though, that wouldn't really represent the "average" consumer from one of the square states.

[jsw]

The saddest part of using someone other than McDonald's, for me, is that it doesn't allow us to somehow incorporate a "Big Mac" pun.

;)

[jxyama]

even with recent McD turnaround (which i believe is due to cost cutting, not due to rebounding sales - meaning McD's prospect for growth/profitability still isn't as good as its "golden" years. there's only so much cost you can cut.), i'm glad McD went the other way.

i want to see apple and wendy's!!

pepsi or coke - i'm fairly indifferent but i'd take wendy's over McD's any day...

[TorbX]

Who really cares.

Most people avoid McDonald's like the plague these days.

Ronald McDoanld is the Anti-Christ

In America? They are?

[keysersoze]

In America? They are?

yep. The devil incarnate. now I can only rot my teeth with pepsi... at least I won't die of cardiac arrest at the age of 26 from deep-fried fries. :D

[vpalvarez]

In the article it mentions Sony allowing people to trade in frequent flyer miles for songs. That I have to say is a good idea. Apple should have thought of that.

[Some_Big_Spoon]

In the article it mentions Sony allowing people to trade in frequent flyer miles for songs. That I have to say is a good idea. Apple should have thought of that.

How bout this, you give me your frequent flier miles, and i'll get you all the free songs you want Limewire (http://www.limewire.com)

[Dahl]

It sounds like Apple have to take off the gloves, Sony won't go down without a fight and they ( Sony ) has also started a "frequent flier" deal with United Airlines.

I still haven't seen any iTunes Pepsi bottles and I live in L.A. :(

Don't lose focus, Apple....

[tex210]

Let me preface this with... I really hate mickey-d's, but I think we are missing the bigger picture. This was an opportunity for pixar to snag the whole Happy-meal promo package from Eisner as well. That said, at least Apple isn't claiming iTunes Music store is there to make money. iPod will have to adopt others standards soon. I don't see Apple doing well in a battle with everyone.

[MatMistake]

I don't know about the US, but in the UK McDonalds really seems to be losing popularity, and thay are trying to get round this by constantly bombarding us with TV ads, shame apple have lost out on the posibility of some exposure on tv...

again, don't know what it was like in the us, but I saw the G5 ad a whole 2 times, and the powerbook one twice aswell
ipod ads are everywhere though. all over paris aswell (was ther last week)

[chubad]

If Apple would strike a deal with Heineken or Guinness I'd be getting a lot more free songs than through Pepsi sickDonalds.

I like that thinking! A Heinekin promo! I'd be drunk ,broke, and groovin' to tons of new tunes! :cool:

[Dahl]

I like that thinking! A Heinekin promo! I'd be drunk ,broke, and groovin' to tons of new tunes! :cool:
Make it Carlsberg or Tuborg instead and I'm on. :D

[ALoLA]

I'd say forget about McDonald's and go with the other alternatives (Arby's, Jack in the Box, Burger King, Taco Bell, KFC, etc.). Actually, I'm surprised no one here with graphics or Photoshop experience hasn't created iPod silhouette ends with Jack, the Colonel, the Chihuahua, and Arby's oven mit. :D

[slipper]

another non-mac bashing thread. now that mcdonalds wont partner up with us, mcdonalds sucks. come on guys, face it this sucks for apple. mcdonalds has the market share and they have the same target market. every commercial we see "im lovin it" with a bunch of young guys dancing around. no other fast food has the same market share and marketing as mcdonalds. if the sony mcdonalds deal is true, im very sorry to hear it. protected online music is still new guys, apple better not slack off now.

[G4scott]

McDonalds may be bad for people, but it would have been good for Apple if McDonalds chose them instead of sony for business reasons. Apple can't say "We won't work with you because your food is unhealthy", because that's an unhealthy decision for any business. Like it or not, McDonalds serves quite a few people. It'd be one of the best ways for Apple to promote their iTunes Music Store. No other food chain can do what McDonalds can as far as reaching customers, and Apple will lose some business to Sony because of this flopped business deal. I don't think this will kill the iTunes Music Store, but sales will be hurt.

I avoid McDonalds like the plague, but their ability to reach so many customers is what Apple needs to keep the iTMS in the #1 spot. For you, McDonalds may be bad, but it's just what Apple needs to stay healthy in the business world.

[TWinbrook46636]

I concur ... but I would also like to place a partial blame on Apple for partnering with Pepsi to begin with.

While I realize that Pepsi owns Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut - these three entities combined don't have the brand recognition (or number of restaurants) that McDonald's does.

Coke and MacDonald's promotions would have yield A LOT greater redemption rate than the Pepsi promotion will.

I suspect the MacDonald's exclusive use of coca cola products and coca cola's input into the matter had "something to do with the decision" as well.

I think Pepsi also owns Burger King so those four combined would have been better than McDonalds. Not everyone eats at McDonalds so this would have a greater demographic by far. They should have gone that route instead of what they did. At the very least they should have gone with bottles that you could actually find. I find it hard to spend $1.00 on a single 20 oz bottle when I can get eight 24 oz bottles for a couple dollars more. This promotion was a bad idea from the beginning. Most people outside the Mac community don't even know it exists. I only saw the commercial once.

[richland]

I avoid McDonalds like the plague


Why?!? The food is great :D

#1 supersized with a sprite.....(maybe 2 apple pies for $1 extra that I will eat later) Oh god...yes....

[csimmons]

I don't care what people's personal opinions about McDonald's are from a business and marketing stand point this is Apple's loss and Sony's gain.


Actually, it's Microsoft's loss, too, which is a good thing. A further nail in the WMA coffin.

[slipper]

I think Pepsi also owns Burger King so those four combined would have been better than McDonalds.
i dont think so. i dont know about elsewhere but here in hawaii, only Mcdonalds has the right marketing and target audience. Burger king doenst even compete with mcdonalds, jack in the box targets cheap eaters, KFC doesnt really compete either, and same with taco bell.

[Doctor Q]

I like Jack in the Box's humorous ads, but Jack in the Box wouldn't make an ideal partner for Apple because it doesn't have enough market share. The last fast food rankings I saw (over a year ago, but probably still roughly correct) had the franchises in this market share order: McDonald's (43% market share), Burger King (18%), Wendy's, Taco Bell, Subway, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Jack in the Box, Hardee's, Sonic Drive-In, Carl's Jr., Whataburger, White Castle, Schlotzsky's, Quizno's, Krystal, Del Taco, Blimpie.

[rt_brained]

I suppose the deal will require McDonalds to stop using hamburger patties and adopt the Sony Mini Disc standard.

Not that anyone will notice the difference.

[the_mole1314]

Hey, just thought of this, what if Apple and Chipotle (www.chipotle.com) get together to give away songs? Chipotle targets the hip, young crowd.

[macFanDave]

MacDonald's has the worst-tasting food among all the fast-food chains.

My daughter is just about ready to outgrow it. While Playland has been really fun for her, it's losing its ability to draw us there to get Chicken Nuggets that aren't as tasty as those from Wendy's or Jack-in-the-Box.

Except for the obvious Big Mac puns, Apple and McDonald's could hardly have less in common. One holds fast to a vision of delivering a superior product to a small market that is discriminating enough to appreciate it while the other produces a very generic and bland product and markets it to get the maximum number of suckers to buy their mediocre crap.

Frankly, I had mixed feelings about a possible iTunes/MacDonald's promotion. While it may have been good for Apple's visibility, the association with such a symbol of mediocrity and blandness made me think it might actually do more harm than good.

[richland]

Hey, just thought of this, what if Apple and Chipotle (www.chipotle.com) get together to give away songs? Chipotle targets the hip, young crowd.


Never heard of it.

[Koodauw]

What do you from a company with a clown running it?

[richland]

What do you expect from a company with a clown running it?

OSX? :p

[Tequila Grandma]

About two months ago, a friend and I were addicted to incredibly crappy fast food, and we frequented McDonald's, always laughing at the pathetic people dining there, ourselves included. This fast food fetish of ours was due much to the fact that it was inexpensive and didn't take a long time to order and eat. However, one day, we had hours to spend for lunch and a lot of money to spend, yet we still decided to dine at McDonald's. It was then and there that we knew we were just horrible, horrible people.

It's fantastic that this deal with Apple didn't happen, or else I would have been given incentive to return to the addictively mediocre food of McDonald's.

[Flowbee]

Gotta give props to the Egg McMuffin! (I don't eat them anymore, but they were damn tasty.)

[reyesmac]

Apple needs to learn how to eat cost sometimes to gain more exposure. I think Jobs didnt want Apple associated with McDonalds at the expense of profits. Also, I think the Pepsi deal soured them to the idea of giving away more songs.
They should try getting the iPod sold in more stores rather than making these sorts of deals.

[ALoLA]

Why?!? The food is great :D

#1 supersized with a sprite.....(maybe 2 apple pies for $1 extra that I will eat later) Oh god...yes....

Ever since they changed the apple pies at McDonald's, I've never had any desire to order them. However, KFC has them now, and it's just like McDonald's original ones. Hot and crispy. :) Mmmmm.... apple pie... :D

[Chip NoVaMac]

Pepsi itunes promos can also be redeemed from winning cups at 7-11s, so you can buy Diet Coke and still win!

Besides, who's to say that Apple caused the problem with the McDonald's promo? Sony may have made an offer that Apple couldn't reasonably meet and that McDonald's just couldn't refuse.

Since Sony owns the music on their site, they can do pretty much what they want. Even give it away free.

[icebook]

Ok excuse me for getting excited but the UK WebStore is down - hmmm, possibly updating contents????

[Dahl]

I like Jack in the Box's humorous ads, but Jack in the Box wouldn't make an ideal partner for Apple because it doesn't have enough market share. The last fast food rankings I saw (over a year ago, but probably still roughly correct) had the franchises in this market share order: McDonald's (43% market share), Burger King (18%), Wendy's, Taco Bell, Subway, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Jack in the Box, Hardee's, Sonic Drive-In, Carl's Jr., Whataburger, White Castle, Schlotzsky's, Quizno's, Krystal, Del Taco, Blimpie.
Sounds about right.
Jack in the Box is actually one of the fastest growing fast food chains right now*

* last time I read about them 1-3 months ago. :D

[Trowaman]

Ever since they changed the apple pies at McDonald's, I've never had any desire to order them. However, KFC has them now, and it's just like McDonald's original ones. Hot and crispy. :) Mmmmm.... apple pie... :D

"It's like, warm apple pie." Man what a sad world this is where apple pie, one of my fav. desserts was reduced to what it was in that movie. Such a sad story.

[kenaustus]

Sony gave a discount - Apple won't, especially after the Pepsi deal. The only problem is that Sony's music store is not very well known and I doubt that their efforts will be very successful. The only thing that can be said is that Sony is trying to copy Apple's success - but then so is everyone else.

Pretty much a dud in my opinion . . .

[wembley]

I used to work for Sony Music in one of their many failed attempts to get a digital music store off the ground.

The solutions they do will always suck, b/c they think like a record label not a tech company or even a digital media company. There are a lot of people there who are firmly entrenched in the old way of doing things.

We were forced to build a store that was very restrictive in terms of WMA licensing, and was populated almost exclusively with absolutely pathetic back catalog (Color Me Badd? Michael Bolton's Xmas?) despite our "easy access to Sony Music content".

[feature]

Except that most people have actually *heard* of McDonald's.

Tim Hortons would be an awesome partner for Apple when they launch the itunes store in Canada. I think us Canadians drink more Tims coffee than water and dare i say it almost as much as beer! :)

[eric_n_dfw]

I concur ... but I would also like to place a partial blame on Apple for partnering with Pepsi to begin with.

While I realize that Pepsi owns Kentucky Fried Chicken, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut - these three entities combined don't have the brand recognition (or number of restaurants) that McDonald's does.

Coke and MacDonald's promotions would have yield A LOT greater redemption rate than the Pepsi promotion will.

I suspect the MacDonald's exclusive use of coca cola products and coca cola's input into the matter had "something to do with the decision" as well.Pepsi spun those off years ago: http://www.pizzahut.com/about/ourstory_pt2.asp

But I agree - McD, like it or not, has unrivaled market share. It's not about the food - it's about the franchise. People know that they can go to any McD's in the country (if not the world) and they will get exactly the same food at every one. Most sheeple like that.

(Oh, and PepsiCo never have owned Buger King, AFIAIK, either)

[MacFan25]

Well this certainly isn't good news for Apple, but I'm hoping that maybe Apple has other deals up their sleeves. Surely they can come up with something no one else has thought of to promote iTunes.

I guess we'll see...though they do have this thing with BMW possibly, with iPods or something like that, so that's a good sign.

[takao]

McDonald's (43% market share), Burger King (18%), Wendy's, Taco Bell, Subway, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Jack in the Box, Hardee's, Sonic Drive-In, Carl's Jr., Whataburger, White Castle, Schlotzsky's, Quizno's, Krystal, Del Taco, Blimpie.

wow you americans can really choose... here in asutria mc donalds is dominating... because they were the first one here...
pizza hut tried to start with a 4 restaurants a few years ago but they had to close because nobody was eating there (i tried one...the worst pizza i ever eaten in my life) burger king has a 17(7 in vienna) restaurants, subway 6(all in vienna) has but nothing compared to the 160+ which mcdonalds have....

burger king can't compete with mcdonalds here. hands down. they compete more with local barbeque-one-person-things (you know what i mean)

same with pepsi... you can get pepsi only in 1 (!!) supermarket-group or burgerking..and in stores coca cola is 50% more expensive than pepsi
because of that i buy the real cheap-o colas (which aren't as good as pepsi,coke but are a lot cheaper)

[eric_n_dfw]

Dr. Pepper!!!

I like Pepsi better than Coke, but Dr. Pepper is king! Everyone wants to be a Pepper, wouldn't you like to be a Pepper to?!?!?!


Okay, I'm sure my sarcasm is completely lost on anyone much younger than I am (32). (That was their big jingle years back).

BTW: In TX, Dr. Pepper is huge (mainly 'cuz is wuz bern 'ere <--- weak, Yankee attempt at a Texas accent ;) ) Maybe that's the key, regional promotions: Dr P. in TX, Bottled Water on the west coast, Snapple in the NE and Molson's in the great white north! (once they get iTMS, of course!)

More:
Fosters down under
Pilsner Urquel (sp?) in Czech
Vodka in Russia
Guinness in Ireland
Sake in Japan
Bourbon in Louisiana
Moonshine in Tennessee... :D :D ;) :p

[richland]

BTW: In TX, Dr. Pepper is huge

That it is! hehe

Hola from Denton fellow Texan http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/images/smilies/hellobye.gif

[Docrjm]

Except that most people have actually *heard* of McDonald's.
Of course if anyone lives in beautiful Barbados, it wont work. Mc D's have the pleasure of having their one huge global failure in that country. The store is now a used car lot!

[Trimix]

If Apple would strike a deal with Heineken or Guinness I'd be getting a lot more free songs than through Pepsi sickDonalds.

That idea is excellent, I just feel that some of the targeted customers of this campaign might get carded ordering a beer :)

[mwalker]

McDonalds has actually turned things around. Their stock has doubled over the last year and they're getting good press. (see forbes)

< http://www.forbes.com/free_forbes/2004/0329/058.html?partner=netscape >

It says things are getting better, but that they have a long way to go. It mentioned that McD's advertising was appealing to kids, but not teens and adults.

Something that is only beginning to rebuild its appeal with teens and adults isn't really something Apple probably wants to partner with, since little kids can't afford iPods, which is the main reason for selling songs in the first place.

[Jimong5]

I must say, Theres 3 mcDonalds in my town alone (18,000 people) And 1 Burger king. The only thing that rivals it is Subway.

For everyone saying Jack in the box... While thats great for californians...Your missing half the country (http://www.jackinthebox.com/locations/index.php?section=5)

I don't get why there's an utter abhorrence to McDonalds, yet sometimes then go and suggest beer promotions. The fact is they offer cheap, accessible food, That is readily available and fast. The point is quite frankly, while you don't eat there... millions do. And these millions will be getting sony music.... not iTMS music. Just look at what happened with Teenie Beanie Babies. thats what apple could be missing.

[Flowbee]

McDonalds has actually turned things around. Their stock has doubled over the last year and they're getting good press. (see forbes)

Just wait until this movie is in wide realease...

http://www.supersizeme.com/

[Savage Henry]

Just wait until this movie is in wide realease...

http://www.supersizeme.com/

You said it.

McDonalds is not what the high quality Apple products should be associating with. Nothing about the entire eating experience (staff, hygeine, food, clientele, plastic straws) says Apple to me. ... apart from the Apple pie.

[Wendy_Rebecca]

All that free music, and none of it will play on my iPod.

Bummer.



Time to support WMA, Apple.

[Savage Henry]

Time to support WMA, Apple.

Over my dead twitching body.....

:mad:

[richland]

Over my dead twitching body.....

:mad:

More support = better, whats the problem?

[takao]

Time to support WMA, Apple.

i'm using windows but i wouldn't want WMA files...ever

[Savage Henry]

More support = better, whats the problem?

The music quality is just too poor by comparison that I'd rather Apple not sell out.

I for one like the McDonalds deal collapsing because it just felt wrong. Admittedly Apple aren't just there for me, but I like the way it's turned out all the same.

[the classicals]

A relative of mine works for McDonald's and is pretty high up there... This person said that McDonald's was signing the papers when they recieved a phone call from Apple. The guys from Apple said the deal was off because of the recent mad cow scare, Steve had been getting a lot crap from his vegetarian friends and decided to call the deal off. McDonald's really really wanted to make the deal work and tried getting ahold of him a number of times, but he would never respond. McDonald's then said that they would go to sony with the deal and Apple still didn't seem interested. So there you have it.

[jxyama]

More support = better, whats the problem?

right, so sony should support the leading standard (AAC) and the leading mp3 player (iPoD) to make their service better. and if they don't, that's not apple's problem...

[Flowbee]

A relative of mine works for McDonald's and is pretty high up there...

BS Alert!! :eek:

[DJMad]

Though it would of been good for apple to make money on a McDonalds deal I would not worry about it too much. McDonalds is not really a good image to connect with apple anyway. Also through good advertising apple has made the iPod a social icon and with the iPod people use iTunes because of how easy it is to sync the 2. Before reading this post I did not even know sony had a online music store. Few people even eat at McDonalds anymore due to people being in this health craze and the whole no carb thing. Though sony might be able to get a bigger market share I dont think that apple will lose any. Right now some stores will be pushed out and leave only 2 or 3.

[nuckinfutz]

All that free music, and none of it will play on my iPod.

Bummer.



Time to support WMA, Apple.


Guess you didn't know. Sony's not using WMA they're using ATRAC.

More support = better, whats the problem?

The problem is some people prefer open standards driven by a group rather than proprietary formats controlled by monopolies. I don't see that as "choice" at all

[jxyama]

Guess you didn't know. Sony's not using WMA they're using ATRAC.

dang... that's suicide. sony portable players are nowhere near where it needs to be to command its own proprietary format. i assume their portable players support mp3 (in addition to ATRAC), but considering sony goods are more expensive to begin with, i highly doubt they will be able to leverage their music store to increase the sale of their hardware. people will just ignore the music store instead...

apple was smart in establishing the hardware first, then the online service...

(i guess it will work with mini discs, but that's not very popular in the states...)

[adamr]

More:
Fosters down under
Pilsner Urquel (sp?) in Czech
Vodka in Russia
Guinness in Ireland
Sake in Japan
Bourbon in Louisiana
Moonshine in Tennessee... :D :D ;) :p

For those non-aussies out there, it may strike you as strange that it is almost impossible to find/buy Fosters beer in many parts of Australia. Hardly anyone drinks it and most people think it is one of the worst beers in the world. Australia has probably a dozen brands more popular than Fosters (of course, Fosters the company owns half of them, and a million wineries too). Fosters the beer is pretty much an export-only beer.

Not much good for an Aussie iTMS promotion (when we finally get iTMS).

[Potus]

Hey, just thought of this, what if Apple and Chipotle (www.chipotle.com) get together to give away songs? Chipotle targets the hip, young crowd.


McDonalds owns Chipotle.

[singletrack]

All that free music, and none of it will play on my iPod.

Bummer.



Time to support WMA, Apple.


Aren't Sony using their own ATRAC format though? ie. it only works with their player (on windows only) and their minidisc and digital protables.

[Wonder Boy]

if this is true, i think its terrible. arn said it earlier, if apple doesn't have a deal with mcdonalds, then someone else does. apple could be a big loser here.

[mvc]

Its simple maths, McDonalds wants the "me too" music download cool factor like Pepsi, but they don't actually want to pay for too many downloads as they are cheap and nasty at heart.

Solution - offer free music downloads (which are all the same as far as the average putz is aware), but use a service that noone will actually bother/be able to download from.

Oh, and keep the offer only for a limited time so punters don't get ropey!

[ALoLA]

I don't think Apple is the big loser here. The big losers will be all of those people who try to get their free music only to learn that they can't play it on their players. Anyone know what percentage of the players out there are Sony and can handle their ATRAC DRM?

[vpalvarez]

How bout this, you give me your frequent flier miles, and i'll get you all the free songs you want Limewire (http://www.limewire.com)

Ha Ha, I think I keep both. Kazaa?

[Inspector Lee]

Who really cares.

Most people avoid McDonald's like the plague these days.

Ronald McDoanld is the Anti-Christ

The sh-- is gonna hit the fan for Mickey Dee's very soon. They've already announced they are EOL-ing super size meals (which pisses off the beanpole thin junk-food groupies), there have been lawsuits, and a little documentary that took a top prize at Sundance about living on nothing but McDonald's for 30 days - and its consequences - should be hitting at least small theatres this spring. Nobody will want any part of them afterwards. I am amazed that BK has emerged unscathed by all the negative fast food press.

I. Lee

[vpalvarez]

iPod will have to adopt others standards soon. I don't see Apple doing well in a battle with everyone.

I see it quite the contrary. I don't see other companies doing well against Apple. Nobody will adopt ATRAC3 in their players, however people will adopt AAC. This battle is going to come down to Apple vs. Microsoft. Apple has been preparing for this battle for twenty years you hink they are going to blow it. All of the other companies will fail. Wal-mart was number one on the Fortune 500 and they sold a handful of songs. Napster sold five million and thats only becasue they had the timing OK, but they are getting less and less dls. I waiting for MS to release their store, they been sizing up Apple for a year, the war will be long but with one victor: Apple. They've been playing by the rules (Sun Tzu); so expect good things from Cupertino.

[vpalvarez]

I like that thinking! A Heinekin promo! I'd be drunk ,broke, and groovin' to tons of new tunes! :cool:

A Heinekin-Apple promo would make for good commercials :p

[vpalvarez]

mcdonalds has the market share and they have the same target market. every commercial we see "im lovin it" with a bunch of young guys dancing around. no other fast food has the same market share and marketing as mcdonalds. if the sony mcdonalds deal is true, im very sorry to hear it. protected online music is still new guys, apple better not slack off now.

McDs is strugling to bring in the demo that their commercials depict, McDs is popular with the 35 and up, mainly. They want the young demo but its been an up hill battle. But your right, it would have been a tremendous gain for Apple to get this deal.

[vpalvarez]

Actually, it's Microsoft's loss, too, which is a good thing. A further nail in the WMA coffin.

I agree and what establishment (Pepsi, McDs etc) would ever partner with MS. When this basketball game starts between MS and Apple the ball will be in MS's court and it just so happens that they only play badminton (sp)

[mac-er]

[QUOTE=takao]wow you americans can really choose... QUOTE]

Why do you think we are all so fat? :rolleyes:

[theipodgod16]

Who really cares.

Most people avoid McDonald's like the plague these days.

Ronald McDoanld is the Anti-Christ



well, i wish i lived in your world. Sadly, one quarter 25% of the us population steps inside a mcdonalds (or any other fast food chain, for that matter) per day. Thats a hell of a lot of people. This deal is bad news for everyone.

EDIT: Statistic from "Fast Food Nation" by Eric Schlosser

[richland]

Why do you think we are all so fat? :rolleyes:

Because fat people die happy? :D

[Bengt77]

This is what The Store @ Sony Music website says:The Windows Media Audio/Video format (WMA/WMV) is the secure audio/video compression/decompression (codec) algorithm used by Windows Media Technologies. All tracks currently being sold on the Sony Music Digital Download Storefront are offered in WMA/WMV only. A license for each WMA/WMV track is delivered to your computer at the time of download which enables you to play it on your PC, burn it once to a recordable compact disc (CD-R or CD-RW), and transfer it three times to a portable player compatible with Microsoft's licenced WMA/WMV format. See Burning Tracks to CD and Copying Tracks to a Portable Device in the FAQ. (http://downloads.sonymusic.com/cds/application/commercewf?origin=main.jsp&event=link(supWMA)&store=music)

I really don't think people will like these restrictions that much, after they've seen what restrictions iTMS has. (And they probably have seen that by now, don't you think?!) Also, could it be that Apple bounced McDo as a possible partner instead of Sony beating Apple to it? Could it be that Steve himself was against it? I mean, after all he is a veganist. Maybe we will indeed see a partnership soon with a rather unlikely but truely great chain...

;)

[Savage Henry]

BS Alert!! :eek:

And you don't mean Bicarbonate of Soda !! ;)

[Bengt77]

In most discussions about iTMS and it's rivals and about iTMS being the (main) driver behind iPod sales, people who suggest that the iPod should also support WMA get flamed almost without exception. Though, didn't Apple specifically state that iTMS is mainly meant as a means to sell iPods? Wouldn't it, thus, be teriffic if the iPod would support playing back WMA? If it would, people using other download services would also be able to use the iPod as their music player of choice. Who's the loser here? Certainly not Apple, if you ask me. Apple would clearly be the winner in that situation. The tricky part would be to actually support the DRM'ed WMA-format. But since other players are supporting it and most of those players are (also) based on the chip that drives the iPod I'm guessing it wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to build in the needed hard- and/or software. All in all, I think it would definitely be a Very Good Idea for Apple to include the ability of playing WMA in the iPod. And to include it in iTunes too, of course. Make playing music as transparant as possible so that users don't have to think about what player works with what download service. No, just have the iPod be the playback device.

Disagree? Why?

[tntoak]

Sony's service will have all of the drawbacks of the iTunes Music Store:
their own format
- so only works in their software (at least for the encryption in Apple's case)
- and only works on their player

plus some more:
will only have Sony music, not everyone

and none of the advantages of the iTunes Music Store:
works with the #1 iPod

McDonalds isn't going to get people coming into the store solely for the purpose of free Sony downloads. That would have happened with the Apple agreement. Oh well. Poor, stupid McDonalds.

Actually, assuming that Sony uses their proprietary ATRAC standards, you will be even mre limited in what you can do with songs you have downloaded from them than you are with any of the other online music stores.

[Bengt77]

I just learned that AAC has become the format of choice to be included on DVD-Audio discs as a lossy addition to the real audio-contents on such discs (URL (http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=13634395)). Then I realised that a while ago WM9 was selected to become the standard format for DVD-Video discs (URL (http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5166786.html)). Isn't it a possibility then that people will believe the WM9-formats to be the high quality and the MP4-formats to be the low quality ones? Has anything concerning the (new) DVD-Video standard been decided for real yet? Or could it be that the DVD-consortium rethinks it's earlier choice and goes with MP4 for the DVD-Video discs too?

:confused:

[crenz]

I just hope that the iTMS will come to Europe soon... *sigh*.

[vpalvarez]

I don't think Coke/McDonald's would have cared if Apple had a previous deal with Pepsi, all they cared about was increasing foot traffic into McDs'. People that go into McDs have no choice of what Brand of soda they want with their Big Mac, they have to drink Coke (especially if there is a contest). That is probably not the reason that the Apple deal fell through. Apple probabl wasn't willing to burden more of the cost.

[theRebel]

Who cares? Sony does not have William Hung!

The American Idol star's new album "Inspiration" will not hit store shelves until April, but you can get the exclusive pre-release from the iTunes Music Store today!

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=5892661

I would love to see William Hung make it onto the Billboard chart for online digital sales.

[Dahl]

Who cares? Sony does not have William Hung!

The American Idol star's new album "Inspiration" will not hit store shelves until April, but you can get the exclusive pre-release from the iTunes Music Store today!

http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playlistId=5892661

I would love to see William Hung make it onto the Billboard chart for online digital sales.
I thought "She Bangs" was bad, but "I Believe I Can Fly" is even worse.
I think I'll get the EP. :)

[MatMistake]

Then I realised that a while ago WM9 was selected to become the standard format for DVD-Video discs

not the format for DVD video, but one of 3, plus for microsoft to get it there it couldn't be proprietary anymore. much like AAC and MP4 being derived from (proprietary) quicktime codecs...
aparantly WM9 (or VC-9 as the non-proprietary version is called) is a very good codec, only problme being that it only plays on windows media player 9 at the moment, and there is practicly nothing actually encoded in it yet (all wma music stores use the sub-MP3 quality wma7)

[jxyama]

In most discussions about iTMS and it's rivals and about iTMS being the (main) driver behind iPod sales, people who suggest that the iPod should also support WMA get flamed almost without exception. Though, didn't Apple specifically state that iTMS is mainly meant as a means to sell iPods? Wouldn't it, thus, be teriffic if the iPod would support playing back WMA? If it would, people using other download services would also be able to use the iPod as their music player of choice. Who's the loser here? Certainly not Apple, if you ask me. Apple would clearly be the winner in that situation. The tricky part would be to actually support the DRM'ed WMA-format. But since other players are supporting it and most of those players are (also) based on the chip that drives the iPod I'm guessing it wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to build in the needed hard- and/or software. All in all, I think it would definitely be a Very Good Idea for Apple to include the ability of playing WMA in the iPod. And to include it in iTunes too, of course. Make playing music as transparant as possible so that users don't have to think about what player works with what download service. No, just have the iPod be the playback device.

Disagree? Why?

here are some reasons:

1) apple will need to pay M$ to license WMA

2) an important advantage iPod/iTMS/iTunes offers is the seamless integration. you buy a Mac/install iTunes and it just works with iPod and iTMS. if apple was to make iTunes/iPod compatible with not only WMA but DRMed WMA from 3rd party music stores, offering seamless integration will be that much more difficult.

3) apple is the current industry leader. just about everyone is craving for an iPod. someone wanting an iPod will not be turned off because it won't support non-iTMS music stores - rather, they will just use iTMS as the music store instead. also, many people have their music collection in MP3 - a format iPod can handle - and not WMA. i think apple wisely chose to risk ignoring the market of customers who have all of their music in WMA because i think trying to cater to that market (which i personally believe is fairly small) will be more trouble than it's worth.

4) lastly, especially given the history between the two companies, i believe jobs would like apple to get away from supporting a format that is proprietary and owned by a convicted monopolistic company if at all possible. (oh, what wouldn't he give to be able to rip up the agreement on windows GUI!)

[thejazzman10]

This will NOT incrase sales, because only sony's players will work with it. Man, apple shure has created a HUGE fad.

[bensisko]

You know, Starbucks has teamed up with HP as a technology partner. Now that there's the HP/Apple thing with the iPod and iTunes, it's not entirely impossible for there to be Starbucks/iTunes promotion.

Perhaps an iTunes blend?

[bensisko]

here are some reasons:

1) apple will need to pay M$ to license WMA

2) an important advantage iPod/iTMS/iTunes offers is the seamless integration. you buy a Mac/install iTunes and it just works with iPod and iTMS. if apple was to make iTunes/iPod compatible with not only WMA but DRMed WMA from 3rd party music stores, offering seamless integration will be that much more difficult.

3) apple is the current industry leader. just about everyone is craving for an iPod. someone wanting an iPod will not be turned off because it won't support non-iTMS music stores - rather, they will just use iTMS as the music store instead. also, many people have their music collection in MP3 - a format iPod can handle - and not WMA. i think apple wisely chose to risk ignoring the market of customers who have all of their music in WMA because i think trying to cater to that market (which i personally believe is fairly small) will be more trouble than it's worth.

4) lastly, especially given the history between the two companies, i believe jobs would like apple to get away from supporting a format that is proprietary and owned by a convicted monopolistic company if at all possible. (oh, what wouldn't he give to be able to rip up the agreement on windows GUI!)

1) Apple would NOT have to pay to license wma. The money comes in by liscenseing the DRM.

2) Maybe, maybe not. I honestly don't think it would be that hard, ESPECIALLY with the cooperation of other services.

3) WRONG! As this becomes more and more popular, music stores will probably become more stylistic (Coke does Rap/R&B, MS does Rock and Roll, ect), and if other players support other stores (i.e. if the Napster player supports Coke, Walmart and MS as well as their own store) then people will likely choose another player. At some point it WILL become nessessary for the iPod to co-operate at one level or another with other services. It's like Sony building a CD player that only worked with Sony Music CDs. For now, Apple can do pretty much whatever they please, but it won't be this way forever.

4) I'm sure steve would love to pretend that MS doesn't exsist, but he knows Apple's survival depends on co operating with the other 95% of the computing world. As much as we would like to believe Apple is an island, it's not.

[jxyama]

1) Apple would NOT have to pay to license wma. The money comes in by liscenseing the DRM.


if apple decides to support WMA, iTunes will need to support WMA. so WMA codec is licensed free?


4) I'm sure steve would love to pretend that MS doesn't exsist, but he knows Apple's survival depends on co operating with the other 95% of the computing world. As much as we would like to believe Apple is an island, it's not.

that "95%" is already covered - it's called iTunes for Windows.

either way, right now, apple is not yet in "trouble." apple is clearly the leader and i believe the right thing to do is sit and see if others will follow the industry leader and support AAC.

WMA is far from being the industry standard. having many stores supporting the format does not mean it's the industry standard since iTMS is the one doing the most business. apple has vested interest in trying to make AAC the standard as well.

anyway, when jobs said iTMS is there to sell iPods, it was implied that selling iPods to turn more profit - not just to sell iPods for the sake of selling them. i believe supporting WMA at this point is not (yet) necessary, worthwhile nor profittable.

[bensisko]

if apple decides to support WMA, iTunes will need to support WMA. so WMA codec is licensed free?

that "95%" is already covered - it's called iTunes for Windows.

either way, right now, apple is not yet in "trouble." apple is clearly the leader and i believe the right thing to do is sit and see if others will follow the industry leader and support AAC.

WMA is far from being the industry standard. having many stores supporting the format does not mean it's the industry standard since iTMS is the one doing the most business. apple has vested interest in trying to make AAC the standard as well.

anyway, when jobs said iTMS is there to sell iPods, it was implied that selling iPods to turn more profit - not just to sell iPods for the sake of selling them. i believe supporting WMA at this point is not (yet) necessary, worthwhile nor profittable.

First of all, yes WMA is free. You can goto microsoft's web site and download the Windows Media Encoder which will make video into WMV and audio into WMA. The DRM companies use, however, is not free. i deal with this on a daily basis.

As for the other 95% being covered by iTunes for Windows, this only covers people who want the iPod and want to use the iTunes Music Store. It's very true that iTMS is there to sell iPods (or so Steve says...), which just proves the point that, right now, you choose your portable music player based on which service you want to use (unless you don't want to use any, in which case you choose based on features, cool factor, whatever). And yes, there is no denying the fact that iTMS and the iPod are on top and are not currently in any danger of loosing that.

However, if Microsoft were to orgainize music stores using WMA and companies making portable devices (like they did with Pocket PCs), you would be foolish to not see a threat. it's to both music stores and device manufactures best interests to be banding togeather, and Apple will once again be the outcast. Would your average music fan raher buy an iPod that can only listen to music Apple decides to make available through iTMS, or one that can listen to music from Coke, Wal-Mart, Microsoft, and others. Sony might be somewhat successful if they can convince fans of Sony Music that nothing else is any good. (BTW - Other music services can use AAC all they want, but unless they are using Fairplay, it won't work with your iPod/iTunes.)

I'm not saying Apple has no future in the portable music business, I'm just saying that there may come a day where Apple will have no choice but to adopt other formats. Right now, Apple is being very isolationist. No other portable will work with iTunes and the iPod won't work with any other service. This will keep iPod sales going for now, but once other music services start comeing out with good business models (i.e. a unified DRM for wma), and the music players start using that, then Apple will have to decide to support it or be left behind. Right now there is no reason to support anything else, but there will come a day.

Remember something: Sales do not make the standard. Microsoft makes the standard. Windows CE spent years at the bottom of the market until it's third revision became Pocket PC. In no time MS went from a 5% share (versus Palm) to a 30% to a 55%. True MS does not yet dominate the PDA world, but Palm doesn't eather, and unlike other companies, MS has the time, money, and resources to 'wait it out.' Unless MS comes into serious financial troubles (look at everything that has happened to it, yet they still exsist, and still dominate), they will be a strong player in the portable music business.

[jxyama]

Remember something: Sales do not make the standard. Microsoft makes the standard.

here's my take on online music industry.

1) portable player makes the difference. for most consumers, music is music - it doesn't matter how it's encoded or to a degree, how much songs cost - because portable players cost between $100 to $500 and that's where the bulk of the money goes. no one will decide whether or not they will get a $200 Rio or $250 iPod Mini based on the codec (WMA/AAC, etc.) or compatibility between 88 cents and 99 cents services (walmart/iTMS, etc.). consumers pick the player they like and then go with a download service that works with it. (all of them must support MP3, of course, it's the "standard" outside of download services.)

2) download services have a tough time differentiating themselves, other than portable player compatibility. prices can't be cut too low without directly affecting the bottom line. walmart can afford to drop their prices and sell at even more of a loss because the loss from their music operation is a drop in the bucket compare to their retail operations. selection can't be made "exclusive" short of buying out an entire label. even if one company manage to pay a lot of money to lure, say, beatles, others can still go get music by buying a CD. this isn't like Halo and Xbox, where the game really was exclusive. music can be had by means other than download service.

3) since every iPod comes with iTunes, M$ dominance in the PC world plays less of a role. M$ cannot leverage its monopoly effectively in this case - because codec consideration is secondary to portable music player consideration. short of M$ bundling a portable music player with windows (extremely costly and even M$ won't get away with something like that), their monopoly is not very useful. in addition, if M$ design department really believes the one to unseat iPod is the behemoth of a media player in the news a few days ago, then apple can rest easy that iPod is not going to be replaced anytime soon.

conclusion: apple is better served by concentrating on keeping iPod the best portable music player than trying to incorporate WMA support into it.

[weave]

Now, the way you CAN get a free chance is by doing something that IS legal and IS allowed - double cupping.

Maybe you should run that buy the store manager and watch him have a stroke. Those kinds of stores don't get charged for the syrup/CO2, but by the cup. Allegedly it's easier to charge the store and for inventory purposes.

Pinching two cups means they pay the wholesale price for two drinks, whatever that might be.

[bensisko]

here's my take on online music industry.

1) portable player makes the difference. for most consumers, music is music - it doesn't matter how it's encoded or to a degree, how much songs cost - because portable players cost between $100 to $500 and that's where the bulk of the money goes. no one will decide whether or not they will get a $200 Rio or $250 iPod Mini based on the codec (WMA/AAC, etc.) or compatibility between 88 cents and 99 cents services (walmart/iTMS, etc.). consumers pick the player they like and then go with a download service that works with it. (all of them must support MP3, of course, it's the "standard" outside of download services.)

2) download services have a tough time differentiating themselves, other than portable player compatibility. prices can't be cut too low without directly affecting the bottom line. walmart can afford to drop their prices and sell at even more of a loss because the loss from their music operation is a drop in the bucket compare to their retail operations. selection can't be made "exclusive" short of buying out an entire label. even if one company manage to pay a lot of money to lure, say, beatles, others can still go get music by buying a CD. this isn't like Halo and Xbox, where the game really was exclusive. music can be had by means other than download service.

3) since every iPod comes with iTunes, M$ dominance in the PC world plays less of a role. M$ cannot leverage its monopoly effectively in this case - because codec consideration is secondary to portable music player consideration. short of M$ bundling a portable music player with windows (extremely costly and even M$ won't get away with something like that), their monopoly is not very useful. in addition, if M$ design department really believes the one to unseat iPod is the behemoth of a media player in the news a few days ago, then apple can rest easy that iPod is not going to be replaced anytime soon.

conclusion: apple is better served by concentrating on keeping iPod the best portable music player than trying to incorporate WMA support into it.

Wow... just...wow.
Somebody probably said the same thing at Apple back when MS introduced Windows. "Don't worry Steve, if we stay the course and concentrate on the Mac and how we make a better product than them, people will still by us over them." Ignoreing MS won't make it go away. Wma WILL become widely used in the industry, it's just a matter of time. Now may not be the best time to bring in wma as DRM is still being worked out on their side.

People choose players now for the player, yes. Style, price and hard drive size. However, there are quite a lot of people who have chosen the iPod, not based entirely on how cool it is, but also because of iTMS.

Once there is some real good compition out there, that has a good business model, we can come back and see whos right. Right now, there really isn't any compition to speak of except for Napster. (BTW- If you're a Windows person who used Windows Media Player to convert their music collection, then you probably won't choose the iPod BECAUSE it doesn't support WMA. There ARE users out there who choose their player based on file format, and, to a lesser extend, compatability with other services.)

in the end, selling iTMS isn't as important as selling iPods. If the decision has to be made (keep iPod at the top by letting it sync with other players [or at least use music from other services], or letting iPod slip to 10% of the market just to keep the iPod with iTMS only) the smart decision would be to add wma support. Again, not now, but in the near future (within the next 5 years).

[solvs]

I just learned that AAC has become the format of choice to be included on DVD-Audio discs as a lossy addition to the real audio-contents on such discs (URL (http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=13634395)). Then I realised that a while ago WM9 was selected to become the standard format for DVD-Video discs (URL (http://news.com.com/2100-1041_3-5166786.html)). Isn't it a possibility then that people will believe the WM9-formats to be the high quality and the MP4-formats to be the low quality ones? Has anything concerning the (new) DVD-Video standard been decided for real yet? Or could it be that the DVD-consortium rethinks it's earlier choice and goes with MP4 for the DVD-Video discs too?

:confused:

You do realize WMV is MP4 based right? WMA just sucks. Better than MP3, but not much.

[tex210]

In most discussions about iTMS and it's rivals and about iTMS being the (main) driver behind iPod sales, people who suggest that the iPod should also support WMA get flamed almost without exception. Though, didn't Apple specifically state that iTMS is mainly meant as a means to sell iPods? Wouldn't it, thus, be teriffic if the iPod would support playing back WMA? If it would, people using other download services would also be able to use the iPod as their music player of choice. Who's the loser here? Certainly not Apple, if you ask me. Apple would clearly be the winner in that situation. The tricky part would be to actually support the DRM'ed WMA-format. But since other players are supporting it and most of those players are (also) based on the chip that drives the iPod I'm guessing it wouldn't be too difficult for Apple to build in the needed hard- and/or software. All in all, I think it would definitely be a Very Good Idea for Apple to include the ability of playing WMA in the iPod. And to include it in iTunes too, of course. Make playing music as transparant as possible so that users don't have to think about what player works with what download service. No, just have the iPod be the playback device.

Disagree? Why?

[tex210]

People who are already buying Window's format.... they are the future market. Let them switch to iTunes without a hitch!



3) apple is the current industry leader. just about everyone is craving for an iPod. someone wanting an iPod will not be turned off because it won't support non-iTMS music stores - rather, they will just use iTMS as the music store instead also, many people have their music collection in MP3 - a format iPod can handle - and not WMA. i think apple wisely chose to risk ignoring the market of customers who have all of their music in WMA because i think trying to cater to that market (which i personally believe is fairly small) will be more trouble than it's worth.

[tex210]

if apple decides to support WMA, iTunes will need to support WMA. so WMA codec is licensed free?




that "95%" is already covered - it's called iTunes for Windows.

either way, right now, apple is not yet in "trouble." apple is clearly the leader and i believe the right thing to do is sit and see if others will follow the industry leader and support AAC.

WMA is far from being the industry standard. having many stores supporting the format does not mean it's the industry standard since iTMS is the one doing the most business. apple has vested interest in trying to make AAC the standard as well.

anyway, when jobs said iTMS is there to sell iPods, it was implied that selling iPods to turn more profit - not just to sell iPods for the sake of selling them. i believe supporting WMA at this point is not (yet) necessary, worthwhile nor profittable.

The iPod is Very profitable! Even without selling a single song.

[methodshop]

I have to say, I'm a little disappointed with the marketing on the Apple/Pepsi promotion. Yeah, they show that commercial every once in a while, but in the grocery store, where you actually buy the drinks, there's nothing. Meanwhile there's a huge display with candy bars (baby ruth I think) offering "Download free music!"

You are so right. I loved the Pepsi promo. they didn't promote it at all. I drank Pepsi everyday for months. i looked under the cap to be sure i got a winner.

http://www.methodshop.com/mp3/articles/hackpepsi/index.stm

but im sad McDonalds backed out. it would have been good for Apple.

[Urdam]

Damn