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ostuneup
Feb 19, 2009, 01:02 AM
I do Internet tech support for Comcast and have seen the same issues going on for months with the latest Mac OS and updates on older systems.

I would think that by now Apple would try to do something to change the situation.

I have subscribers who call in with painfully slow Internet performance. Just today I talked extensively with a gentleman who was persuaded at the Apple store to "upgrade" to Leopard from his older Tiger OS. He admits it got slower right away. But once he got his latest series of updates the speed took a total dump.

I also have folks who bring a brand new Leopard Mac home and it works fine for a few weeks until they get updates and then the same thing happens.

Even during peak traffic periods where the throughput seems to dip to 3mbps (based on checking at speedtest.net) for some folks - our speed is still at least 3 times faster than the typical DSL connection. ...and DSL isn't exactly shabby on speed.

A few months back when I first saw this trend - I went out and did a little checking on the web and found that some expert users who dug a little deeper discovered an error problem between the built-in network interface and the internal DNS server. Basically it keeps asking itself the same question over and over which slows things down.

In some cases adding a brand new Mac notebook to a home network with mixed devices such as a Windows PC and Playstation can bring the whole network to a crawl. Basically the network gets overloaded with error traffic.

My personal theory is that the chips being used are compatible with the OS at the time of implementation: but as updates come out the chips become less and less compliant.

I saw the same issue with Service Pack 3 updates on Windows XP. Certain huge manufacturers sell so many computers that they can have custom chipsets made in China. The minute these computers sucked up SP3, the onboard nic card got nuked - at least as far as their Windows OS was concerned: it no longer existed.

Dell doesn't seem to know the issue exists even though their customers were hugely impacted: but the Microsoft tech I spoke with when he called in on behalf of a Dell customer was fully aware of the situation. One poor lady was charged $200 and eight hours on the phone with a "very nice" rep from India and in the end she got shuffled back to her internet provider's tech support after they were unable to get her Ethernet working again.

I see other strange things such as email functions quitting after updates on brand new Sony and IBM computers running Windows Vista.

However other brands such as Toshiba never seem to have any issues at all.
Even Acer customers hardly ever call in.

It all comes down to the diligence of the manufacturer. My dad's HP laptop simply rejected SP3.

I really think that Apple could be doing more to protect its customers rather than hiding behind a massive PR machine that makes their beautiful looking machines seem absolutely beyond reproach.

>>

Everybody thinks Apples are immune to viruses and the Apple tech support staff told my customer today that he should get rid of his antivirus program designed for the Mac. However with 23 million subscribers, you can bet we get bulletins regarding Trojans that infect the Macintosh.

These nasty little vermin continually emanate from certain corners of the globe that think Americans have more money than they can spare. Once you get one on your computer - everything you type gets broadcast elsewhere. One infected customer found airline tickets charged to his visa, with transactions originating from China.

In a recent ecourse we took for our job, we learned that this is a very widespread problem. The typical hit to an American's bank account is $1400 yanked out without warning, once your details get compromised. Unless you have an awesome banking institution this money is gone forever.

How do you get a Trojan? From the banner ads that load on your favorite web site. You don't have to click on them to have controls loaded into your browser. The web site operator has no way of knowing which banners happen to be loading on their pages because they are supplied by a separate agency who simply rents the space. The process of taking out a banner ad is essentially anonymous - so there is no way of knowing if its legit or not.

The normal use for these controls is for the banner agencies to figure out what you are into so they can serve up ads that match your interests.

Web browsers are platform-independent and must all conform to the same basic rules in order for complex websites to work properly, so it doesn't matter what your OS happens to be.

Recently when my own computer became infected, I found 42 open connections to the Internet. It takes only two connections to download an intensive webpage - and at the time I wasn't surfing, or emailing, or chatting. Needless to say my internet performance was slow and I was very concerned by the constant hard disk activity. This is because Trojans not only forward your own keystroke and click data but also turn your computer into a peer-to-peer router to forward data from other infected systems.

It was also unnerving to frequently hear that "sound" my computer makes whenever my built in camera would go on and off - seemingly by itself, thanks to unknown Java controls I inadvertently picked up.

A great anti virus package for the Mac, Windows & Linux is available at Avast.com Avast is nice because its transparent and has dedicated scanners to check the various types of internet traffic in real time. They also offer antivirus protection for smartphones.

Watch out! Because there is a massive wave of programs out there that are packaged to look like virus & spyware removal tools - but in fact are actually viruses themselves.

Many computer brands try to sell you additional software via trial-ware that is already loaded on the system when you get it from the factory. These systems include program updaters for the trial-ware that also are known to let in malware due to built-in spyware features designed to keep you from stealing the application without paying.

>>

Apple used to be a shining star for recording musicians who like to use the Firewire audio interface - jointly developed by Apple and Texas Instruments. Without much warning Apple switched to a smaller, cheaper Agere chipset. Suddenly many audio interfaces became incompatible.

System updates also have been known to cause important audio recording applications to become unusable due to system slowness.

>>

I'm not sitting here trying to flame Apple. I just hope that vocal users will make enough noise that something will actually change in the business model.

But that probably is wishful thinking.

I remember the guy in college who ran the computer shop located inside the bookstore. He snickered at folks who were buying the current systems because he knew that a new generation of Macs were coming out in a few weeks. He didn't want to curb his sales by telling people that the in-stock models were about to be obsolete.

He was saving up $6000 to buy the new "Quadra". Well you can imagine his chagrin when the big day finally arrived and his all-powerful Quadra was painfully slower than the older models.

If you are one of those folks who have nothing but perfection in your Leopard experience: don't be a snob! Have a little compassion for all the folks that aren't.

If you take a look at Cnet you will see that it is possible to restore your system to before you got the problematic updates by running the disk that came with your Mac. Once you have done that - the only way to prevent a relapse is to turn off the automatic updates.



Sun Baked
Feb 19, 2009, 01:06 AM
Look at Firefox and disable IPv6

You could try turning off ipv6? In firefox do the following: type about:config in the address field then type ipv6 in the new filter: field then double click on the one & only line that is left in the viewing window, to change it's boolean value to true

ChrisA
Feb 19, 2009, 01:24 AM
You can just run a copy of Etherial and see what's up. No need to guess and have "theories".

It's free and Open Source so there is no reason not to have a copy.
http://www.ethereal.com/

Mackilroy
Feb 19, 2009, 11:36 AM
You aren't one of those people wearing tin-foil hats, are you?

Digital Skunk
Feb 19, 2009, 11:40 AM
Or you could look at the millions that don't have any issues with internet speeds with their Leopard running Macs and see what they are doing different.

Consultant
Feb 19, 2009, 12:04 PM
THERE ARE NO VIRUSES on OSX.

Giz Explains: Why OS X Shrugs Off Viruses Better Than Windows
http://i.gizmodo.com/5101337/giz-explains-why-os-x-shrugs-off-viruses-better-than-windows

The Mac Malware Myth
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/01/29/the-mac-malware-myth/

The Unavoidable Malware Myth
http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/04/01/the-unavoidable-malware-myth-why-apple-wont-inherit-microsofts-malware-crown/

Road to Mac OS X Snow Leopard: 64-bit security
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/01/16/road_to_mac_os_x_snow_leopard_64_bit_security.html


Or you could look at the millions that don't have any issues with internet speeds with their Leopard running Macs and see what they are doing different.

Exactly. Apple has been holding the highest satisfaction rate in the computer industry for years now.

ostuneup
Feb 19, 2009, 12:40 PM
I have no agenda here.

Just couldn't take it any longer.

I talk to over 500 people a month and see these things on a daily basis...

I also doubt that names like Avast, Norton, and McAfee would be wasting their dollars on developing defense mechanisms for the Mac if their research didn't overwhelmingly indicate that serious real-world threats exist.

The articles you are quoting are pure theory...

Why do you care to try and shut down something that might actually provide a little validation and explanation for things that many mac users are complaining of but remain ignored and unaddressed.

Are you just an Apple snob or an Apple employee keeping certain dangerous PR myths alive???

Are you basically telling people to just relax and let benevolent "big brother" watch over us and keep us safe? It amounts to luring your fellow humans into the comfortable numbness of pseudo-security. We all want someone to take care of us.. but some of us have learned to watch out for ourselves.

Amdahl
Feb 19, 2009, 02:33 PM
There is definitely something up with Leopard and DNS lookups. Many people come by complaining about 'slow Internet,' and it turns out that is the fix.

No one seems to know why, for sure. Bug in OS X, or bug in routers, or bug in some ISPs DNS? Obviously, OS X is the most likely culprit, because you don't hear about Windows, PS3, Xbox, Wii, Linux, or FreeBSD folks having the issue.

Digital Skunk
Feb 19, 2009, 03:27 PM
...

I agree there may be an issue with some Macs and internet speeds, but it's just NOT an issue with Leopard as a whole, or a widespread issue.

As for the virus issue, I think it's more for 1)piece of mind, 2)to kill any unwanted files or virii coming from the PC side just because, 3)to prevent the spread of virii in a majority PC environment.

Finding a virus that affects the Mac is sorta like trying to find God. There are some that believe He exists and have absolutely no proof, and some that don't belief but do the right thing just incase.

There is definitely something up with Leopard and DNS lookups. Many people come by complaining about 'slow Internet,' and it turns out that is the fix.

No one seems to know why, for sure. Bug in OS X, or bug in routers, or bug in some ISPs DNS? Obviously, OS X is the most likely culprit, because you don't hear about Windows, PS3, Xbox, Wii, Linux, or FreeBSD folks having the issue.

But not everyone that runs OS 10.5 has this issue.

djjclark
Feb 19, 2009, 04:04 PM
I have no agenda here.

....
I also doubt that names like Avast, Norton, and McAfee would be wasting their dollars on developing defense mechanisms for the Mac if their research didn't overwhelmingly indicate that serious real-world threats exist.

......


I would bet that their market research shows that all of the people switching from windows will still buy their code because they have become programmed to do it from their windows days.

Amdahl
Feb 19, 2009, 06:05 PM
But not everyone that runs OS 10.5 has this issue.

Wow, I never thought of it that way. :apple: FTW!

Schtumple
Feb 19, 2009, 06:09 PM
I have no agenda here.

Just couldn't take it any longer.

I talk to over 500 people a month and see these things on a daily basis...

I also doubt that names like Avast, Norton, and McAfee would be wasting their dollars on developing defense mechanisms for the Mac if their research didn't overwhelmingly indicate that serious real-world threats exist.

The articles you are quoting are pure theory...

Why do you care to try and shut down something that might actually provide a little validation and explanation for things that many mac users are complaining of but remain ignored and unaddressed.

Are you just an Apple snob or an Apple employee keeping certain dangerous PR myths alive???

Are you basically telling people to just relax and let benevolent "big brother" watch over us and keep us safe? It amounts to luring your fellow humans into the comfortable numbness of pseudo-security. We all want someone to take care of us.. but some of us have learned to watch out for ourselves.

Every mac I've encountered doesn't have anti virus software installed on it, and it appears to be running just fine, the only "virus" I've ever heard of was all that iWorkServices trojan malware/spyware (whatever it was), and that only got there because morons downloaded iWork from torrent sites...

I stand by macs are being very secure and robust, I don't have my built in firewall on, and I don't see why I should, I've never been hacked, I got hacked alot on windows, but not once on Mac...

Melrose
Feb 19, 2009, 10:03 PM
I don't run any AV on either of my Macs and they've been absolutely fine - no slow internet, no virii. Both have OSX and both have been the Poster Child of stability.

djjclark - I almost went out and bought McAfee after I switched for this same reason; I decided to give it a month or so and wound up never getting anything..

The articles you are quoting are pure theory...
And the conjecture in your first post is... ? You say you encounter these things 'every day' - I'd love to see what the stats are with Windows. Everyone I know who runs Mac doesn't have problems with internet speed and doesn't have problems with security. On the contrary, every PC owner I know is obsessive about AV and regularly asks for my help when their systems go down.

...guess that means I work for/am enslaved to Apple and exaggerate. :rolleyes:

ostuneup
Feb 20, 2009, 01:56 AM
I went and entered "Macintosh Trojans" into Google...

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9101898

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/12/apple_mac_users_should_get_ant.html?nav=rss_blog

http://cultofmac.com/mac-malware-trojans-are-nothing-new/5124

http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/01/03/trojan.removal.tool/

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2008/06/new_trojan_leverages_unpatched.html

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/25/0032226&from=rss

http://www.wired.com/politics/security/news/2007/11/mac_trojan

http://www.securemac.com/

This was the first two pages of results.. far from an epidemic... but still a growing concern...

Although there are admittedly less viruses written for the Mac so far, that will change due to the fact that the same browser controls are available on the Mac as on a Windows PC. The nature of viruses has changed from being purely anarchy into significant profit centers. Whenever there is money to be made from the unsuspecting masses - machines of commerce go into action. From what I can see this has been the absolute worst year ever for viruses.

At present programmers are simply less familiar with the Mac OS. However I think you will see an "R&D" stage from the virus world with a few small blips and then the problem will begin growing in waves.

The recent spread of the Windows 2009 pop-up viruses has caused huge headaches. It loads through banner ads and suddenly kills your browser session - then pops up and starts scanning your computer telling you that you are infected and demanding money. Shortly thereafter the computer starts going downhill. This is all accomplished via the browser's built-in Active X controls.

If you want to see a technical explanation of Active X controls on the Mac visit

http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.13/13.06/ActiveXControlsforMac/index.html

SactoGuy18
Feb 20, 2009, 05:31 AM
If Internet access is "slow," how about ditching your ISP's DNS server and use something better like OpenDNS. I had MAJOR problems with slow Internet access until I switched to OpenDNS and my access speed increased dramatically. http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/edoom/cool_shades.gif

neonblue2
Feb 20, 2009, 06:35 AM
If you are one of those folks who have nothing but perfection in your Leopard experience: don't be a snob! Have a little compassion for all the folks that aren't.

Well here's the thing, if this problem was widespread then one of the five Macs in my house would have some sort of problem, right?

Also, ActiveX? :rolleyes::p

It's been six years since IE5, I think we're over ActiveX by now.

drlunanerd
Feb 20, 2009, 06:56 AM
Well here's the thing, if this problem was widespread then one of the five Macs in my house would have some sort of problem, right?

Also, ActiveX? :rolleyes::p

It's been six years since IE5, I think we're over ActiveX by now.

This thread is hilarious, the OP doesn't have a frakkin' clue.
He has some customers call up, and breaks out his support toolbox.... which is Google :rolleyes: :p

Try this Google search (http://***********/?q=comcast+dns+slow), it explains all your customer's issues.

ActiveX drive-by downloads infecting OS X - LOL!! :D
1997 called, it wants IE 3 back on Windows 95.

MisterMe
Feb 20, 2009, 08:24 AM
You appear to have no direct experience with Macs. Rather, you appear to be relying exclusively on the tales of woe from your subscribers calling tech support and other sources of dubious credibility.

I do Internet tech support for Comcast and have seen the same issues going on for months with the latest Mac OS and updates on older systems.I also take it that you are relatively new to tech support. If you had more experience, then you would know that most of your customers are decent human beings who only want their systems to work. However, there are others who are stupid liars.

One of the things about the people who ask for help on this forum is that so many of them conceal the fact the they caused their problems. They often refuse to give information that can be used to diagnose and correct their problems. I'm not saying that they are all. I am not even saying that they are many. However, it doesn't take many. In a company as large as yours, a small percentage of nitwits among your customer base can generate a large number of calls.

...

I have subscribers who call in with painfully slow Internet performance. Just today I talked extensively with a gentleman who was persuaded at the Apple store to "upgrade" to Leopard from his older Tiger OS. He admits it got slower right away. But once he got his latest series of updates the speed took a total dump.

I also have folks who bring a brand new Leopard Mac home and it works fine for a few weeks until they get updates and then the same thing happens.

Even during peak traffic periods where the throughput seems to dip to 3mbps (based on checking at speedtest.net) for some folks - our speed is still at least 3 times faster than the typical DSL connection. ...and DSL isn't exactly shabby on speed.

A few months back when I first saw this trend - ...You are ignoring obvious questions and leaping to conclusions. There are numerous possibilities for degraded Internet performance. They extend from the chair all the way to the server being accessed.

When your customers complain about upgrades slowing down their systems, have you ever asked about what had been installed on the system prior to the upgrade? As you should know, a cable modem connection is very fast, but the subscriber shares bandwidth with every other subscriber on his local loop. Do you try to determine how much traffic is on the local loop at the time of the customer calls for help?

In some cases adding a brand new Mac notebook to a home network with mixed devices such as a Windows PC and Playstation can bring the whole network to a crawl. Basically the network gets overloaded with error traffic.So you say that of all the devices that the customer has on his home network, it must be the Mac that causes the problem. How much more bandwidth does the Mac require than the next greediest device?

BTW, I have learned from posts on this site that subscribers sometimes configure their home networks in most peculiar ways. Do you bother to learn how the subscriber has his network configured? Have you ever suggested a more efficient configuration?

My personal theory is that the chips being used are compatible with the OS at the time of implementation: but as updates come out the chips become less and less compliant.Huh?

I saw the same issue with Service Pack 3 updates on Windows XP. Certain huge manufacturers sell so many computers that they can have custom chipsets made in China. The minute these computers sucked up SP3, the onboard nic card got nuked - at least as far as their Windows OS was concerned: it no longer existed.What in God's name does Windows Service Pack 3 have to do with networking Macs?

... My dad's HP laptop simply rejected SP3.

....

He was saving up $6000 to buy the new "Quadra". ...So you are basing most of your opinions on old stories that you heard and read?

neonblue2
Feb 20, 2009, 08:37 AM
Lookie lookie.

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=94388

http://www.maclife.com/forums/topic/107748

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/airport-networking-wireless-technology/124888-painfully-slow-networking-leopard.html

Melrose
Feb 20, 2009, 08:41 AM
^^ on that note, I think this thread can be closed..

Consultant
Feb 20, 2009, 08:53 AM
Lookie lookie.

http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=94388

http://www.maclife.com/forums/topic/107748

http://www.mac-forums.com/forums/airport-networking-wireless-technology/124888-painfully-slow-networking-leopard.html

Good find.

1 vote for wasteland.

drlunanerd
Feb 20, 2009, 09:00 AM
Good find.

1 vote for wasteland.

+1
OP was here on MR 5 months ago posting the same thing (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=6308139#post6308139).

Hint: if you haven't fixed this or learnt how to troubleshoot DNS issues in 5 months without resorting to weird and wonderful conspiracy theories I'd give up the day job pal.